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Jays win 2-1 on a first inning homer by Frank Catalanotto and an unexpectedly great pitching performance from Scott Downs.
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sweat - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#125256) #
What a great game to watch today. Nothing like being nervous all game, worrying when Downs was gonna blow. I'm glad he and the Jays picked up an important win, against a beatable team. Props to Cat for taking advantage of Bonderman during the only bad 5 minutes he pitched.
Flex - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#125262) #
This looked to me like two tired teams. Certainly the Tigers had none of the spark they showed the first two nights. Downs took advantage and good for him.

Wouldn't Dimitri Young look good at first base here?
Mylegacy - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#125265) #
I understand Young gets 6 or 8 million next year. That's not too much for a PREMIUM hitter BUT Big D's lifetime stats are 291, 348, 479. In his 10 year career he's only slugged 500 twice.

I'll stick with Hilly.
VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#125266) #
DH, absolutely, maybe not first though.
binnister - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#125269) #
I wouldn't mind D. Young on Jay's (during the 4 games, he's the only Det hitter that made me REALLY nervous during the 4 games)...but it would probably cost too much (he's still under contract next year, right? So he'd only come via trade).

However, I think that is just the type of player the Jay's would love to have (1b/LF/DH & a switch-hitter). Anyone know what his makeup (i.e attitude) is like? Seems to me that J.P. puts more stock in that than physical gifts.

I know everyones hates trade speculation, but IF the Jay's traded for D. Young, what would it take?
Jacko - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#125271) #
How about Carlos Pena?

He's been hitting fairly well since his demotion to AAA, and he's completely blocked by Dmitri and Chris Shelton.

Unless Detroit gets rid of Dmitri (e.g. trades him to TB to play with Delmon) they will be looking to move him in the offseason.

Jordan - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#125273) #
The Jays need a lot more power next season than what Pena or Young can offer. The team needs a legitimate cleanup basher, and since there are very few (if any) on the FA market, a trade seems the likeliest source.

At this point, next year's first baseman looks to me like Corey Koskie, with Hill at third, Adams at short, Hudson at second and (probably) Hillenbrand at DH. The power upgrade is going to have to take place in the outfield.
Maldoff - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#125277) #
I have to agree with Jordan. If you look at our team, the main power deficincies lie in the outfield. While I love both Rios and Catalanatto as players, having them in the same outfield does not work. I would say we should trade one of the two (preferrably Cat, because Rios is better defensively) plus a minor league pitcher for a mashing left fielder.
jsoh - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#125279) #
At this point, next year's first baseman looks to me like Corey Koskie

I've been thinking about the Jays' infield for next year as well - doesnt moving Koskie over to 1st negate a fair amount of his value (that being defence)?

Then there's the question of will he acquiesce to moving to 1B.

I was wondering if (presuming, as you do, that Hinske gets shipped to, ohh.. Tampa) the Jays might entertain a rotation of sorts (assuming 6 games/week, numbers refer to starts per week):

1B: Hillenbrand(5), Koskie(1)
2B: O-Dog (6)
SS: Adams (5), Hill (1)
3B: Koskie(4), Hill (2)
DH: Koskie(1), Hill (3), Hillenbrand(1)

Tho, that does have Hill bouncing around the diamond a bunch, which I'm not sure I like. If you want to give Cordel a bit more of a breather at 3B to keep him healthy, you can either give another start at 3B to Hill, or spot-start someone like Menechino.

jsoh - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#125282) #
I would say we should trade one of the two (preferrably Cat, because Rios is better defensively) plus a minor league pitcher for a mashing left fielder.

Gross, Marcum, Cat and ohh.. lets say Gaudin to the Pirates for Jason Bay?


VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#125285) #
It was mentioned in the chat, but here is the link.

Congratualtions to Tom Cheek, the first recipient of The Tom Cheek Media Leadership Award. Get well soon!

Maldoff - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#125286) #
Now you're thinking, jsoh!!!

I was also thinking about maybe a package for Adam Dunn, or maybe even Pat Burrell (wishful thinking).
jsoh - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#125287) #
package for Adam Dunn, or maybe even Pat Burrell (wishful thinking)

Cincy is just stupid enough to want to trade Dunn - I figure that they'll entertain outrageous proposals for a bit (say Halladay, McGowan, and Hill) before they finally pull the trigger on something more reasonable - but still stupid.

Burrell? I'm meh on Burrell.

bird droppings - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#125288) #

It's like catching lightening in a jar.

Man, I love days like today. Scott Downs is now my backup backup favourite Jays player (O Dog and Gregg Zaun being 1 and 2 with Reed being moved to 4th and Chacin 5th).

.301 is what the Tigers were batting against LH up until today. Mu hahahahahaha. haha. heh. That is all.
Ron - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#125295) #
If JP elects to keep all his infielders, Hillenbrand would probably be the 1B with Koskie DH'ing. I don't know how many games Koskie's played at first base but I'm guessing it's a lot less than Hillenbrand.

There's one FA that would vastly improve the Jays and his name is Carlos Lee. In terms of trading for a slugger, I woudld start the package off with Chacin. Despite the gaudy W-L record and ERA, I don't believe Chacin is that good of a pitcher. I know you can't measure luck, but I believe he's been lucky all season. He doesn't strike a ton of guys out and throws a ton of balls.

I wonder if a package such as Rios, Chacin, and a pick of Purcey, Jackson, Marcum, Rosario, Jansen, or Banks would be enough to get Dunn.

Despite Rios's recent hot steak I don't believe he's going to develop into an all-star/franchise player. I'm ready to cut bait on his "power potential".
slitheringslider - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#125297) #
Is Carlos Lee a FA? If he is, then JP should jump on him like a fat kid on a donut. That guy is a legitimate run producer and would fit in nicely in our lineup.

As for trading for Dunn, I know he has all the power in the world, but I just don't think that we should liquidate our farm system for a liability at the plate. Adam Dunn strikes out far too much and he simply doesn't make contact nearly enough. I feel like Dunn is pretty much a more powerful version of Eric Hinske (Low Avg, High Ks, High BB), which is not always a bad thing. On the plus side, if we do happen to land Dunn, he would offer a feared bat in the middle of the lineup that would psychologically impact the opposing pitchers. Which would help people like Vernon get more balls to hit. But is that reason enough to liquidate our farm system? That would be a question for JP to answer.

I feel like a lot of our young hitters are close to breaking out. I think we should look for more power production from Adams, Hill, and Rios. It's doubtful that any of them would belt 30 next year, but I believe their power production should be more than adequate for years to come. Remember how many years it took Shawn Green to develop his power potential? I truly believe that Rios could develop the power that could match that of Green in his heyday in Toronto.
VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#125300) #
Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko are probably the best offensive free agents out there. Carlos Lee in particular would be just what the doctor ordered.
Rich - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#125301) #
I wondered a while back about the Rios - Green comparisons too, but they're not that similar (Green's birthday is in November, so the ages are slightly misleading):

First big-league season:
Rios at 23 (426 AB): .286/.338/.383
Green at 22 (379 AB): .288/.326 /.509

Rios at 24 (361 AB): .285/.333/.429
Green at 23 (422 AB): .280/.342/.448

Green then hit .287/.340/.469 in his last part-time role before exploding the next 2 seasons. Their second seasons are somewhat similar, but a) Green slugged 130 points better in his first season and b) his .448 slugging mark in Year 2 is the worst of his career and is still better than Rios has done thus far.

Rios may turn out to be a 20 home run guy in his prime, but I doubt he'll ever approach Green as a slugger, who has 3 40 home runs seasons under his belt. I agree with the earlier post that sooner or later the Jays need power from at least one of their corner outfielders. Rios would be more valuable if he could double his walk total.
VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#125304) #
Here are some players eligible for free agency this offseason. List courtesy of

Position players eligible for free agency:

Bengie Molina (ooh!)
Kevin Millar
Johnny Damon,
Frank Thomas (Player + Team option)
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett (Team Option)
Ivan Rodriguez (Poss. Team Void Option)
Dimitri Young (Team Option)
Craig Biggio,
Carlos Lee (Team Option)
Jacque Jones
Erubiel Durazo
Brian Giles
Larry Walker (Team Option)
Dee Brown (Yea, I know)

Pitchers (need a closer?):

Kenny Rogers
Jeff Suppan (Team Option)
Trevor Hoffman
Octavio Dotel
Ugueth Urbina
Kevin Brown
Tom Gordon
A.J. Burnett
Kevim Millwood
Jarrod Washburn

Mike Green - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#125305) #
The name that I like the best is Brian Giles. His numbers are superficially less impressive than Konerko's or Lee's, but he is still, in my view, a better hitter.
DepecheJay - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#125307) #
I'd just like to say that my heart goes out to Mike Cameron. I live in the NYC area and attend many Met games and I've really come to enjoy watching him play. He gets disrespected a lot because he hasn't been the healthiest of players, but stuff like this is just out of his control.

For those who didn't see it yet, he suffered multiple fractures to his face and sustained a broken nose. My thoughts and prayers go to Mike for a quick recovery.

Here's a link:

As for today's game, Downs was outstanding. This is the second game this season where he's played a HUGE role in the Jays winning... another being the Reed Johnson walkoff game against the BoSox where I believe he came on in long relief of Dave Bush and pitched some outstanding ball to keep the Jays in it. Not a bad pickup at all.

The bats were quiet, but that has to be expected with the way Bonderman was dealing. Great series win and let's hope the boys have one last fight in them to make the playoffs. On to Baltimore!
Smaj - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#125308) #
Here is Adam Dunn's key stats thus far:

OBP =.394; SLG=.596; OPS=.990 ...extremely gaudy, filthy numbers that warrants the Jays purging their minor league system to acquire him (Dunn will turn 26 years old in Novemeber...this is an IMPACT PLAYER).

Carlos Lee will most certainly see The Brewers vest their team option on him, thus very unlikely he will be a FA unless Melvin/Ash have a serious braincramp.

Brian Giles is interesting OBP=.415; SLG=.483; OPS=.898. SLUGGING would certainly increase in RC (seems to be a West Coast Guy & would be an expensive contract).

Has Kyle Farnsworth found consistency this year or is he still enigmatic (all the tools no toolbox)?

AJ Burnett scenario could be interesting. BJ Ryan is listed as a free agent as well...great arm & a lefty closer.

Is Ted Lilly a free agent (as listed on
Keith Talent - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#125310) #
Dmitri Young is someone I would love to see in a Blue Jays uniform. Someone asked about his make-up. All I remember is that adorable MLB Kids Camp commercial he did where he was trying to teach all these little kids how to rob a homerun by jumping over a 9' fence: "C'mon, you gotta JUMP!'

I've been a fan ever since that commercial.

I haven't taken a hard look at his stats, but I'm guessing if he was protected in the lineup he could put up some really big numbers.

But agreed that the power upgrade should come from the outfield; and Rios shouldn't go anywhere. Face it: he's the guy for the next 5 years. He's got the arm and I'm convinced he's going to be a killer at the plate. That he's not *all homerun* lets you know he's going to be a good natural contact hitter.

Precisely the reason I'm cold on Adam Dunn. I don't want a guy whose job is supposed to come up in key situations, men on base, and who strikes out more than he makes contact. It would drive me mad. It's enough that we have Vernon swinging at the first pitch every time; imagine having that followed up by a master of the swing-and-miss: No thanks. Heck, I'd take Ken Griffey (rusty ligaments and all) as my LFer any day over Adam Dunn.
Keith Talent - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#125312) #
Do you think Justin Speier is putting on an audition for his free agent eligibility?

You gotta wonder about guys who suddenly turn it on when it's only a matter of months before they're on the free market.

Remember how Delgado in 04? Tejada in 03? Major early-season slumps with a surge just before FA. Gary Sheffield is the master of that performance genre.
Smaj - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#125315) #
Speier had a similar performance last year...rotten start with a very strong finish. He is a very impressive set-up intersting to examine his numbers from excluding April.

Tejada is worth every penny in Baltimore. Not only is he a force on the field but a true leader in the clubhouse. I love the way he plays baseball.

Sheff (despite his controversial nature) is a production specialist. Always puts up the stats & plays hard through injuries. He has hit everywhere he has played (also represented every team he has played for at the All Star Game as well).

Ron - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#125316) #
Justin Speier isn't a FA after this season. He signed a 2 year extention before the start of this season. 1.9 mil for this season and 2.3 mil for next season.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#125317) #
Sheff is a "production specialist"? Never heard it put in those terms before, but boy, you got that right. His comps at BBRef:

Duke Snider (922)
Ken Griffey (895)
Ellis Burks (874)
Dale Murphy (855)
Larry Walker (854)
Jim Rice (849)
Bob Johnson (848)
Frank Thomas (848)
Jeff Bagwell (845)
Orlando Cepeda (843)

A Hall of Famer? I certainly think so, but that list gives one pause, as it includes a couple of guys who aren't and shouldn't be (Johnson, Burks), a couple who aren't but who have an argument (Rice, Murphy), just two who are in now (Snider, Cepeda), three who will walk in no problem (Griffey, Thomas, Bagwell) and one who may well get left out as the first HOF Coors test (Walker).

Quite a mixed bag.
#2JBrumfield - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#125318) #

Another close one and another win for the Fightin' Jays. I'm glad I took the day off work today. I also liked this result a lot better than the last time these two teams faced each other on a weekday afternoon at the Dome, Opening Day 2004. Taking 3 out of 4 is sweet revenge for last year's opening debacle.

The missus and I have been lucky enough to see Scott Downs at his best in 2005. The first time we saw him pitch was for Syracuse in April when he went 7 innings, allowing just 1 HR to current Phillie Ryan Howard but retiring the last 17 hitters he faced. He set the tone early with a couple of punchouts to start the game.

Defensively, Reed Johnson made a couple of nice running catches, especially the one he made at the track on Infante to start the 4th. Nothing against "Tripod", but it makes you appreciate just how good Wells is defensively. He would have made those plays without breaking a sweat. I'm still raving about that catch he made against Ordonez in the 9th Tuesday night, but anyway.... I think Reed was pissed when he and Hudson collided in the 7th. It looked like Hudson was calling for it but maybe all those Camp Kids drowned out the O-Dog.

I also thought Hillenbrand made a couple of nice plays too, especially the leaping catch he made on Infante to start the 4th. That made up for him not beating out that grounder deep in the hole to Infante in the 1st. He's a good hitter and a better than advertised fielder but I think he could only beat Huckaby in a foot race.

It was also good to see Batista bail out Frasor and shut down the Tigers for the last 4 outs. I love this bullpen, especially after the disasters of the last 2 seasons. I was surprised Downs came back out for the 8th when Frasor had been warming for a quite a while but maybe Downs talked Gibbons into going back in. The way Bonderman was pitching today, it was a good thing Cat swatted that 2 run jack to start the game today. He deserved a better fate but he should save that performance for a more deserving opponent, like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc.

The best part of the day was Useless Tyler hecking Chris Shelton when he pinch hit in the 8th. This isn't an exact quote because I was laughing too hard but it was something like ...."Stop Trying! Just give up. You don't matter. You're a Detroit Tiger! Nobody cares about you! And you're ugly." Again, as I mentioned in a previous post, Shelton's picture on the Jumbo Tron is not flattering. Don't these players ever check out their mug shots before they're released for public viewing?

VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#125319) #
Is Ted Lilly a free agent (as listed on

I think there's a team option for 2006, which is why I was unsure of the accuracy of that Free Agent List.

In regards to the Cameron play, I too hope for a speedy recovery, but he was lucky. That play looked alot worse.

Smaj - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#125320) #
Very interesting mix Mick. I had forgotten about Ellis Burks productivity when healthy (alas he too has some Coors air in his stats. Bagwell is another interesting player who had a superb career.

You are that certain of the Big Hurt entering the Hall? Injuries have hampered his once stellar career tremendously.

Sheff is certainly a HOF'er with the proviso of more BALCO fallout emerging concerning his "supplement" habits.

I expect HOF voters will certainly veto convicted nominees (final nail in the mild Palmeiro HOF debate...he was a fringe candidate prior to his suspension but certainly has 0% chance now).

Great comps for Sheff, thanks!
Keith Talent - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#125323) #
Yeah, you know who scares me most in that Yankees lineup:

1. Sheffield
2. Matsui

A-Rod is the kind of guy who homers only when the game isn't on the line. (That's how it seems at least, he doesn't frighten me as much as the two above.)

Good to hear Speier is back for next year. Maybe he's auditioning to be closer. I know he was disappointed out of spring training that he wouldn't be the closer after all.

How much credit do you think Brad Arnsberg deserves for the turnaround in the bullpen in 2005?
rtcaino - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#125327) #
Lilly has his last off-season of arbitration eligibility (they grow up so fast * tear).
After next season he is a free man.

By the way, did you guys see K Rod's blooper? A's take the lead in the West.

Wild card race now

That said, this month, the Jays play, in chronological order starting tomorrow:
off day
And then they host Raffy Palmeiriods and his Os at the RC for a three game set.

It's not an easy schedule. Especially considering that they are on the road for the next 14 days, with only one off day. BUT, that said, we are only 6 back, and the teams we need to beat, we play. Should be some exciting baseball.

Alexander - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 12:18 AM EDT (#125329) #
Somebody earlier posted something about Gross being involved in a trade. Although the scenario was obviously based in fiction, does anyone actually think the guy has any trade value at all? Does anyone here think that Gabe can ever be more than a backup...and if so, why?
Alexander - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#125330) #

Rob Ducey > Gabe Gross

LetsAdmireThatOn - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 03:21 AM EDT (#125333) #
Hi everyone! Just discovered this forum. First-time post.

I agree pretty much with Ron about the Blue Jays' infield in '06. Assuming hypothetically that Hinske continues to be the least productive offensively and is not part of the equation:

I see Hudson and Adams every day at 2B and SS. Coskie and Hill would share 3B and DH, with one playing third more than the other, depending on who shows the better glove. (I'm not sure we have seen enough of either to tell who's stronger defensively; they both seem solid there.) Then you could see Menochino occasionally spelling Hillenbrand at first, and Shea occasionally at DH, giving Corey or Aaron the day off.

Frankie M. could also get a few starts at second, but, I would hope, fewer than he has this year - to get Orlando out there to start nearly every game. Hudson's glove is priceless. And is it my imagination or is he starting to pick it up a bit at the right side of the plate? I believe that's his natural side (and there's a nice shot of just such a right-handed swing in the photo above ;-). Maybe starting most games against southpaws is what he needs to get in the groove again from that side of the plate.

Btw, does anyone know if there's a way to find split stats from previous seasons - vs. RH and LH, etc. (e.g. 2003, 2004)? The MLB website seems to show splits for the current season only. I'd be curious to see how O-Dawg faired in the past from either side.

Btw #2, would you let me know if there's a more appropriate thread to post a message about this topic. I'm not sure where to look.
Eric Purdy - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 03:58 AM EDT (#125335) #
Thoughts on some of the things being discussed in the thread:

I'd trade Rios, Chacin & Banks for Dunn without a second thought and a huge grin on my face. Sure, he'd be superficially maddening because he might have a tendency to strike out in a clutch situation but three run homers in the 3rd inning are just as important. I'd want nothing to do with him after his age 32 season, though.

My dream off-season: Brian Giles, A.J. Burnett, B.J. Ryan.

Gary Sheffield is going to be the Dick Allen of his generation. Too much acrimony with the media (plus his BALCO associations) to get into the HOF despite deserving numbers.

Let, ESPN's player pages will give you exactly what you're looking for. The links would make you think you can only go back to 2002, but if you change the year in the address bar from say, 2003 to 1999, it'll have their splits from '99 if the player was active then.
Magpie - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 04:33 AM EDT (#125336) #
Aside from the month of June, when he inexplicably turned into Ken Huckaby, Hinske has actually been one of the team's three best hitters. Believe it or not.

Here are the top 4 Blue Jays in a variety of offensive categories. You will notice that practically everyone contributes something - there's only one hitter with more than 200 at bats who doesn't make any of these lists.

Hillenbrand, 70
Hinske, 62
Rios, 58
Wells, 57

Hillenbrand, 127
Wells, 125
Rios, 102
Hudson, 99

Wells, 27
Hillenbrand, 26
Hinske, 25
Rios, 20

Wells, 21
Hillenbrand, 15
Hinske, 10
Hudson, 10

Wells, 67
Hillenbrand, 65
Hudson, 52
Adams/Hinske, 50

Zaun, 51
Hinske, 40
Adams, 34
Wells, 31

Hill, .300
Hillenbrand, .297
Catalanotto, .295
Wells, .287

Wells, .507
Hillenbrand, .467
Johnson, .452
Adams, .440

Zaun, .370
Hillenbrand, .359
Catalanotto, .358
Hill, .355
Any surprises here?
Chuck - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 07:35 AM EDT (#125337) #
Do you think Justin Speier is putting on an audition for his free agent eligibility?

I never understand this line of reasoning. Don't you seriously think that if he had the ability to just turn it on like that, he wouldn't be doing it all the time? Are you suggesting that he's only normally mediocre because he can't be bothered trying hard enough to be a star?

As for Dunn vs. Young, wow. Young will be turning 32 this year, has a career 830 OPS and can't reasonably field any position. Dunn will be turning 26 this year, has a career OPS near 900 and is a passable LF. It just so happens that when Dunn makes an out, which he does much less frequently than Young, it's often a strikeout. If he's making outs less often, who cares what kind of outs they are?

Jonny German - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 08:43 AM EDT (#125338) #
I'm with Chuck on both counts, and in regards to Speier I'm wondering why he would step it up this year when he's under contract for next year... doesn't the theory go that guys turn it on in their walk year?
Mike Green - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#125339) #

I thought that Eric Hinske had turned it around at the start of this season, but there is no sugarcoating the results. Here are your regular American League first basemen. I was quite obviously wrong.

I winced when Gibbons pinch-hit for Aaron Hill with Eric Hinske a couple of days ago. I am hoping we won't be seeing that again any time soon.

Pistol - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#125341) #
My first thought was that you were crazy. Then I looked up some numbers and you're right - Giles is 16th in baseball in EQA this year.

Giles - .322 (36 next year)
Dunn - .322
Konerko - .300 (30 next year)
Hillenbrand - .288
C Lee - .287 (30 next year)

Age is probably the big concern with Giles, but he's been pretty consistent over the years:

2005 .322
2004 .298
2003 .328
2002 .323
2001 .350
2000 .323
1999 .328
1998 .301

Last offseason Steve Finley signed for 2 years for $14 million, and I'd imagine that Giles is worth more than that (a little younger and a little better). Would you go 3 years for $27 million to sign him?
Mike Green - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#125348) #
Yes, I would. I'd think of it as 10.5, 9.5 and 7.0, which seems to me to be roughly fair market value. Most people would have Pistol's initial reaction, as PETCO depresses the superficial stats, and so you might very well get Giles for much less.
Pistol - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#125355) #
I'm not sure that Giles will be that much of a bargain when all is said and done, relative to other players that sign this offseason. I tend to think that nearly all teams at this point look well beyond the ave/HR/RBIs that make Giles appear underrated.

What I think will make more of a difference is the teams that would be interested in Giles, which at this point I have no idea about, although I suspect the heavy hitters in the AL East wouldn't be looking at him (unless the Sox dumped Manny or Matsui signed with another team).

If the Jays were interested in Giles I think the best strategy would be to go after him hard early while other teams were focused in other areas (Matsui, Damon, Konerko, Burnett).

Mike Green - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#125356) #
Youneverknow. The Padres could make the playoffs, and Giles could go ape woolies and get a lower case Beltran contract (3 X 13 or something like that).
Nigel - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#125368) #
Giles definitely has appeal as a left handed bat in the middle of the line-up (which, I think, is preferable to another right handed bat), but you have to be realistic about where he will be able to field over that 3 years. I've seen him about 4-5 times this year and all I can say is that you have to view him as a DH for the last year or, more likely, two of a three year deal. Now that's not the end of the world for the Jays who could wedge him into that spot, but the ideal scenario (given the dearth of outfield prospects in the system) would be to find a full time outfielder for the next 3 years. That person is unlikely to be Carlos Lee. Milwaukee is almost certain to exercise their option for next year (even if they wanted to shed his salary they'd exercise it and then trade him). It's only for $8m, which is not a bad contract. Put it this way, would you rather have Lee or Dimitri Young next year for $8m?
Magpie - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#125371) #
On the one hand, Giles is a California guy who's already playing in California (for $ 8 million), who will be 35 in January.

On the other hand, he's 5-10, so he clearly belongs here.

His home field is absolutely killing him this year. He battled it to a draw in 2004, but this year it's his turn to be Klesko'd by it. But in road games, he's hitting like... well, like Brian Giles.

Jonny German - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#125376) #
KlesKO'd... I love it...
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