Career high 10 wins for Towers, and the Jays go 6 games over .500 for the first time this season. What's not to like?
Great win tonight. A ton of web gems out there. I'm surprised the Jays are over .500 without Doc. Hopefully if all goes well Doc will return in the upcoming Yanks series. The Jays will also not face Bonderman in the next 3 game set because he pitched tonight.
Towers has really stepped up ever since Doc went down.
Towers has really stepped up ever since Doc went down.
Did JP say that Halladay might not be back the whole season. Did I hear correctly?
4 Games back. I'm going to call the Jays about possible playoff ticket information.
4 Games back. I'm going to call the Jays about possible playoff ticket information.
I hope you didn't hear correctly. But if you did, it concerns me he was off the crutches in less than a week and throwing in less than two. That concerned me anyway.
If if he is being pushed way back and the Jays are within two games of a spot in the last week that crazy guy will pitch.
If if he is being pushed way back and the Jays are within two games of a spot in the last week that crazy guy will pitch.
Great defence, grinding at bats, good bullpen, surprisingly resiliant starting pitching, 4 games back in mid August ...WOW. I am starting to believe this could be done!
Man awesome absolutely awesome what can be said about this team. Espn game and the Jays step up their game with one defensive gem after another. Man the honour roll will have nothing but the jays tommorow.
Pitching and defence wins games. The Fighting Jays are 4 count em 4 games back. Anything is possible.
Lets enjoy it while we can cause hopefully more is to come
Pitching and defence wins games. The Fighting Jays are 4 count em 4 games back. Anything is possible.
Lets enjoy it while we can cause hopefully more is to come
Halladay will drag himself to that hallowed mound if this determined team continues to close on the wild card.
I'd love to see the jays fly into New York and swoop down on the reeling yankees. It would be so apropo after the beatings they handed the jays over the last ten years. Taking 2 of 3 from the tigers is the first priority though...
I'd love to see the jays fly into New York and swoop down on the reeling yankees. It would be so apropo after the beatings they handed the jays over the last ten years. Taking 2 of 3 from the tigers is the first priority though...
If this winning continues, he will pitch. I can't think of any way a competitor like Halladay would allow himself to sit out his team's first real shot at the wild card in a long time. He'll pitch, and he'll pitch really, really good.
This enthusiasm is nice and all, but one month ago, people were all hot and bothered, claiming the Jays just buried their chances for the 2005 season, they needed to sell off three of the starting nine, it was the time to trade a couple of relievers who are actually doing okay jobs and time to trade blue-chip prospects.
Where are those people now?
The season is 162 games long. I wish more people would understand that.
Where are those people now?
The season is 162 games long. I wish more people would understand that.
Just before I went to sleep last night, I turned on the radio. The Jays were up 3-1 after 7. I turned off the radio, satisfied that the Jays would likely win this one. That's one good bullpen they've got.
I still think it's unlikely that the Jays will make it to the post-season, but it's definitely possible. And the games are still meaningful, which hasn't happened in eons.
And, whatever happens, this is a team I am proud to support.
I still think it's unlikely that the Jays will make it to the post-season, but it's definitely possible. And the games are still meaningful, which hasn't happened in eons.
And, whatever happens, this is a team I am proud to support.
Jarrod Washburn on the Blue Jays:
"They definitely had the bounces go their way tonight and made some great defensive plays -- and Towers made some big pitches when he had to," Washburn said. "It's good to see those guys leave town."
Now that's the kind of quote I like to see.
"They definitely had the bounces go their way tonight and made some great defensive plays -- and Towers made some big pitches when he had to," Washburn said. "It's good to see those guys leave town."
Now that's the kind of quote I like to see.
No Jeremy Bonderman, no Rondell White and no Carlos Guillen. Darn...
Hudson Forever!
Hudson Forever!
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Pitching and defence wins games.
And offense. The Jays are 4th in the AL in scoring.
I was down on the Jays after the Tampa series a month ago. And I must say that I am absolutely shocked and thrilled at the same time by how well the team has been playing recently. But considering the situation they were in - losing Halladay, losing 3 of 4 to TB, I still think that the outlook then was grim.
But do you think that the team as it is now is a playoff contender? Rios and Adams have shown a lot of potential recently, but are Towers and Downs all-star pitchers or are they getting lucky? I don't think our pitching is as good as the A's yet and I am not convinced that the team is ready this year. I would put their playoff chance at 10% right now pending Halladay returns for Sept.
But do you think that the team as it is now is a playoff contender? Rios and Adams have shown a lot of potential recently, but are Towers and Downs all-star pitchers or are they getting lucky? I don't think our pitching is as good as the A's yet and I am not convinced that the team is ready this year. I would put their playoff chance at 10% right now pending Halladay returns for Sept.
I would put their playoff chance at 10% right now
BP had them at 6% before last night's game.
That was a game that i was proud to say i was a jays fan. i love the way these guys play and that bases loaded, no out sitituation Towers got out of was amazing. And how bout Russ Adams, the guy comes into the game in the 4th and goes 3-3.
If you go to cnnsi.com, they have the top ten AL rookies and the Jays have 3 of them.
If you go to cnnsi.com, they have the top ten AL rookies and the Jays have 3 of them.
This enthusiasm is nice and all, but one month ago, people were all hot and bothered...
Where are those people now?
Who cares!? Who gives a crap what happens to the boo-birds when they disappear. The important thing is, they're gone for now, baby!
The baseball season isn't a competition between those who boost the team and those who don't. We should all remember that.
Oakland isn't that great, you know.
Well said. I like their youth, and they have one amazing player in Eric Chavez, but they're not that much better than the Jays - if at all. With Halladay and Lilly healthy, I'd think Toronto's better.
I would put their playoff chance at 10% right now
Give that man a cigar. BP updated their playoff odds this morning and the Jays are at 9.7%.
It's crazy to say this about a team that's been around 20 games over .500 for a while now, but I don't think the Angels are a very good team. My vote for AL manager of the year would go to Scioscia.
The Jays were up 3-1 after 7. I turned off the radio, satisfied... That's one good bullpen they've got.
The two Box rookies (that would the young, talented guy and... me) each took a look, in our own ways, at AL closers this week. But the Toronto pen really is a group effort, and I want to pass this along from yesterday's Blue Jays Game Notes. It's how the relievers have performed when it comes to stranding Inherited BaseRunners:
Schoeneweis: 35 of 46 (76%)
Chulk: 30 of 33 (91%)
Frasor: 30 of 33 (91%)
Speier: 19 of 25 (76%)
Batista: 16 of 24 (67%)
Walker: 12 of 21 (57%)
I haven't checked to see that compares to other AL pens, but it sure seems a damn sight better than the 2004 Blue Jays.
Setup guys don't get saves - they get Holds or Blown Saves. So here's how they've done:
Holds Saves BlSaves Pct.
Chulk 10 0 0 1.000
Frasor 9 0 1 .900
Batista 0 23 4 .852
Schoeneweis 12 1 4 .765
Speier 6 0 3 .667
Walker 4 2 3 .667
There is an ancient debate, by the way, about the definition of a Hold. ESPN credited Schoeneweis with a Hold last night. He came into the game in a Save situation, and passed the same Save situation along to his replacement. As you'll recall, he faced one batter and gave up a base hit.
The Hold was actually invented by John Dewan and Mike O'Donnell back in the mid 1980s, not long before Dewan made STATS into the organization that has been berry berry good to me for lo these many years. And the original Hold definition, which we still use at STATS, says the reliever has to at least retire a hitter:
A Hold is credited any time a relief pitcher enters a game in a Save Situation, records at least one out, and leaves the game never having relinquished the lead.
Which makes so much more sense...
stranding Inherited BaseRunners...I haven't checked to see that compares to other AL pens, but it sure seems a damn sight better than the 2004 Blue Jays
You can say that again. Kerry Ligtenberg checked in at a cool 41% prevention rate in '04.
You can say that again. Kerry Ligtenberg checked in at a cool 41% prevention rate in '04.
prevention rate
That statistic has legs. If I knew where to go or what to do, I'd love to see the "PR" for last years pen, and see who are among the highest and lowest "PR" pitchers this season in the leauge.
That statistic has legs.
Now I have a weird, weird mental image. A statistic with legs.
Those numbers for Chulk and Frasor are incredible, and I'll bet if you took Speier's bad first month out of the mix, he'd measure up very well, too.
Remember Jeff Tam? Me neither!
Prevention rate. I don't know. Chulk and Frasor have a PR of 91% but what does that really say about them as pitchers? Does that carry anymore weight than first batter retired efficiency? OPS against in the first 30 pitches thrown?
Is prevention rate against 30 batters faced is pretty much like measuring offensive statistics in 30 plate appearances isn't it? Is it something that carries over year to year as a skill or is it as volatile as reliever ERA?
Because I'm looking at Frasor and Chulk's 91% and comparing it to their actual pitching metrics (K/9, BB/9, K/BB, etc) which don't stand out in any particular way and I wonder how much that inherited runner stat is really worth in predicting future patterns.
Do metrics like adjusted runs prevented take into account the difficulty of the situation the reliever entered (number of outs, where the runners are)? And if they do isn't it still suspect because of the small sample size?
Is prevention rate against 30 batters faced is pretty much like measuring offensive statistics in 30 plate appearances isn't it? Is it something that carries over year to year as a skill or is it as volatile as reliever ERA?
Because I'm looking at Frasor and Chulk's 91% and comparing it to their actual pitching metrics (K/9, BB/9, K/BB, etc) which don't stand out in any particular way and I wonder how much that inherited runner stat is really worth in predicting future patterns.
Do metrics like adjusted runs prevented take into account the difficulty of the situation the reliever entered (number of outs, where the runners are)? And if they do isn't it still suspect because of the small sample size?
Jeff Tam was actually fifth among Blue Jay relievers according to Baseball Prospectus in some sort of inherited runners measurement in 2003. I don't know what it is, but they seem to have sorted all relievers by it, so here you go:
Lopez 5.4 T.Miller 4.6 Kershner 4.3 Politte 3.4 Tam 3.0 Thurman 2.5 Walker 1.2 Towers 0.7 Service 0.6 Sturtze 0.4 Acevedo 0.1 Wayback 0.0 Davis 0.0 Chulk -0.2 Reichert-1.1 Linton -1.2 Escobar -1.6 Bowles -2.2 Creek -3.4
Yeah, I have no life. So?
I wonder how much that inherited runner stat is really worth in predicting future patterns.
Intuitively, you would expect certain pitchers to be better at stranding runners than others. Paul Quantrill was a very effective reliever, because he never gave up bases on balls or home runs. You had to string together several hits to score off him. But because he did give up lots of hits, he's not someone you'd want to call on with men on base.
In that respect, you would expect Speier, rather than Chulk or Frasor, to be most effective at stranding runners - he has by far the lowest opponents's BAVG.
But Speier does give homers more often than the other relievers.
The guy least likely to give up a HR, and most likely to strike out the batter, is Schoeneweis.
So go figure.
Chulk was charged with a run Monday night which tied the game.
Why was that not a blown save?
Why was that not a blown save?
Why was that not a blown save?
Chulk put a man on base, but recorded an out and handed the save situation over to the next guy. That was Schoeneweis, who gave up a hit that scored the tying run.
The run was charged to Chulk, but he gets a Hold and Schoeneweis gets the Blown Save.
Nobody had their ear close enough to ground today to find out Haladay's present status?
Well, that explains it. But in my opinion Chulk blew the save. If it's a tie game and he's charged with a run, he takes the loss, right?
It was mentioned in the Mailbag, but Spencer Fordin was very vague on it. I don't think anyone knows.
If it's a tie game and he's charged with a run, he takes the loss, right?
Yup. You can get a Hold and a Loss in the same game.
It's Just One of Those Things.
Ugh -- thanks for the nightmare replay, Rob. Those relievers, those awful, awful relievers. Scott Service. Juan Acevedo. Dan Reichert. Brian Bowles. Doug Creek! It's easy to forget what a gigantic chest wound that bullpen was not long ago.
Corey Thurman ... there's a blast from the past. I had high hopes for him, as did others. Never came to anything. Maybe the Royals weren't so dumb after all.
Corey Thurman ... there's a blast from the past. I had high hopes for him, as did others. Never came to anything. Maybe the Royals weren't so dumb after all.
If you have a masochistic streak, buy the Hardball Times bullpen book. The depths of the Jays' bullpen woes 2002-04 are exposed with all the gory detail.