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The plot thickens?


I think it's safe to say that everything is settled with the position players: Phillips will back up Zaun, Fasano will tutor Thigpen at AAA and be available in the event of an emergency. Johnny Mac and Jason Smith will back up the infielders, Matt Stairs will be the fourth outfielder, occasional DH and first baseman, while providing a lefty bat and Canadian content.

The battles for the back end of the rotation and bullpen goes on. John Thomson will have an MRI on the same shoulder that kept him out for two months last season. Josh Towers finally had a mediocre outing, while Tomo Ohka continues to impress. Victor Zambrano continues to surprise, although there's clearly a great deal of reluctance to give a spot in the rotation to someone just ten months removed from TJ surgery. He shouldn't be this far along! The team does seem determined to err on the side of caution. While the plan was undoubtedly for Zambrano to continue his recovery at a lower level, he's pitched so well that he seems likely to come north as part of the bullpen, at the very least.

Your updated spring numbers (includes last night's game against the Phillies and Thomson's minor league start):

Player        W  L   ERA    G  GS  IP   H   R ER HR HBP  BB  SO       

V Zambrano 1 0 0.93 4 0 9.2 10 1 1 0 0 4 7
T Ohka 1 1 3.21 4 3 14.0 11 5 5 1 1 2 4
J Towers 1 0 4.61 4 4 13.2 15 7 7 2 1 2 13
S Marcum 0 0 6.30 4 1 10.0 10 8 7 2 0 4 12
J Thomson 0 1 8.78 4 4 13.2 13 13 13 3 0 7 8

As for the relievers:

Player        W   L   ERA    G  IP    H  R  ER HR HBP  BB  SO       
C Janssen 1 0 1.17 4 7.2 7 2 1 0 0 1 10
J Accardo 0 2 6.75 6 6.2 9 6 5 1 0 1 7
F Rosario 0 0 5.40 4 5.0 5 3 3 1 0 3 6
B Tallet 0 0 9.00 5 5.0 7 5 5 1 0 1 6


Today, I'd say your opening day staff will probably be:
SP - Halladay, Burnett, Chacin, Ohka, Towers
RP - Ryan, Frasor, Downs, Accardo, Rosario, Tallet, Zambrano
DL - Thomson, League

But there's still ten days for all this to change...
Dunedin Week Three | 91 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
chengy - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 03:30 AM EDT (#164598) #
Janssen's numbers are quite impressive. I hope he makes his way back into the rotation (through impressive minor league performance and not due to major lack of with the big team).
Oxygen8 - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 03:31 AM EDT (#164599) #
If Thomson starts the season on the DL, does he get his 1 million for making the opening day roster? I realize it's not a lot of money for the Jays, but would it be worth it?
China fan - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 04:10 AM EDT (#164601) #

    Accardo had another bad outing last night, and Jeff Blair says he "appears to have pitched himself out of contention."   This adds yet another concern to the bullpen, where Tallet has been unimpressive, League has been injured, and Ryan has been hampered by the flu and a bad back, giving him very few innings so far.  (Of course the Jays management says that Ryan will be fine, but they have to say that.  It seems doubtful that he'll be at peak condition when the season starts.)

    So, a lot of question marks about the bullpen.  Converted starters such as Marcum, Zambrano and Janssen could be deployed to fill the holes in the bullpen, but that seems a poor solution.

    On the positive side, Jordan Bastian says the Jays are looking at a 22-year-old Cuban defector named Edysbel Benitez, who is said to have a 94-mph fastball and four other pitches.  He pitched in Nicaragua this past winter, and his agent claims he is "Major League ready."   Four other teams are also after the guy......

Leigh - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 08:01 AM EDT (#164603) #
Leaving Accardo out of the bullpen would be a mistake, I think.  70 K, 29 BB, 10 HR in 98.7 career IP.  What's not to like?
SNB - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#164604) #
Well, that 6.75 ERA...

Or that 5.97 ERA from last year...

I know you guys don't put much stock in ERA, but I'd say he's clearly proven that while he's got great stuff, he has no idea how to pitch yet.

Pistol - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 08:42 AM EDT (#164605) #
If Thomson starts the season on the DL, does he get his 1 million for making the opening day roster?

Apparently not.
Thomson, who signed a major-league contract and is on the 40-man roster, is to receive a $1-million (U.S.) bonus if he is on the active roster on opening day. He would not receive the money if he is on the 15-day disabled list — although it's an open secret that the Blue Jays have been trying to trade him in recent days.
Stellers Jay - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#164606) #

My prediction of the bullpen contains 2 changes to those speculated on above. 

 I expect that the Jays will leave Zambrano in Dunedin for a month to continue his rehab.  I also tend to believe Blair is on to somethingand that Accardo is the odd man out. 

That leaves Marcum and Jannsen as the 6th and 7th members of my bullpen.  League should be ready after the 1st week and one of Marcum and Jannsen will be optioned out, likely Jannsen.  Arnsberg has spoken recently about not allowing League to pitch in any Grapefruit League games late this month so that he can be put on the DL retroactively and thus be available after the 1st or 2nd series

 Ricciardi has spoken early and often about the likelyhood of Marcum being a part of the bullpen this year.  I think these two actually provide some flexability and make a lot of sense.  They can both eat multiple innings when one of the starters is getting lit up early on.

Bullpen;

Ryan, Frasor, Downs, Rosario, Tallet, Marcum, Janssen

DL:

Thompson, League, Zambrano

 

Mike Green - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#164607) #
Nothing that has happened in spring training has changed my view that Shaun Marcum is the 3rd or 4th best starting option available to the club.  Actually, right now, I'd rather have him in there than Gus.

Casey Janssen's fine spring is a good omen.  There would be nothing wrong with him working half a season in the mop-up role before getting another shot in the rotation. 

greenfrog - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#164608) #
I think JP is really trying to encourage a meritocratic system when it comes to the pitching staff. I like this approach. However, you have to balance your immediate needs (bringing your best 12 pitchers north) with the long-term interests of the club (which could include giving players like Janssen regular starting assignments in AAA).

My question about Accardo is: has he gained command or learned more about pitching since last year? Because he was unreliable in 2006 (at least for the Jays). He looked like a work-in-progress--Arnsberg has talked about a mechanical flaw in Accardo's delivery--not a go-to guy when the game is on the line.



PeterG - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#164611) #
I don't believe Accardo will come north with the Jays. My money is on Jeremi Gonzalez. The surprise of the spring, so far unnoticed, has been Brian Wolfe. He will be assigned to a higher level than most expect.
ayjackson - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#164613) #

The schedule could affect the starting rotation plans as well.  We don't NEED a fifth starter until April 11, and then April 21, given the two days off in the first few weeks.

They could come north with seven in the pen and spot start the game on the eleventh (Marcum/Rosario/Downs) and keep Thomson and Zambrano down in Dunedin strengthening their arms.

If Towers has another rough ST outing next week, then I don't see the Jays adding him to the 40-man roster.  He'd be reassigned.  Conversely, if he reverts to the form of his earlier outings, he'll get the fifth spot.

Janssen will go to AAA unless Zambrano's not ready and Towers blows up again.

Noah - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#164614) #
While the strong competition for the last two rotation spots is somewhat reassuring given that there are now a plethora of options (Ohka, Janssen, Towers, Zambrano, and Thomson) I have some serious issues with the bullpen.

If the pen ends up as is projected with guys like Accardo and Tallet playing major roles, especially with Ryan and Leauge not at 100% I wonder if maybe there is a weakness that we are underestimating.

When the backend of the rotation looks like ours does I can't say that Im satisfied knowing that someone like Tallet could have to enter a one run ball game in the 6th inning and not fall apart.

Maybe its time for us to consider making a move for a veteran middle reliever.  He doesn't have to be a set-up guy in the Speier mould but someone we can count on to regularly get guys out.

timpinder - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#164615) #

I'd also take Marcum in the rotation over Chacin and Towers.  If Marcum is solid in his next outing and Towers is mediocre or worse, I think Marcum will slip in as the 5th starter.  If Towers does make the team he'll be on a very tight leash.

If they don't make the Jays, I'd like to see Janssen and/or Marcum get regular starts in AAA.  I think it's only a matter of time until one of the Jays' starters gets hurt or hit hard, and having a regular starter available in AAA (the better of McGowan, Janssen, and Marcum or Towers) would be a nice benefit.

westcoast dude - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#164616) #

The most daunting pitching assignment of spring training will be at Yankees on Saturday.  Victor Zambrano, no stranger he to  Big Apple pressure, undoubtedly welcomes the challenge of trial by fire from the entire Yankee lineup for five innings, to be followed by Janssen for four innings. With Ohka's Stuff becoming apparent, we may be looking at  the emergence of Four Aces in the rotation. When the dust settles the #5 starter might be the best of Josh, Gus or Casey.

 

greenfrog - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#164618) #
If Towers has another rough ST outing next week, then I don't see the Jays adding him to the 40-man roster.

According to Blair, Towers wasn't too bad last time out, but got squeezed by the plate ump's strike zone. Still, I wonder. I don't see Towers as a long-term solution (although he might be the best option for a couple of months). Despite some modest spring training success, I think he's a real risk to melt down again. His confidence is going to get tested, because sooner or later he's going to get hammered--he's just that kind of pitcher.
Ryan Day - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#164623) #

Interesting Development: The Red Sox are moving Papelbon back to closer.

Considering their other closer options seemed to be Timlin, Piniero, Donnelly and Tavarez, I suppose it's not too surprising.

seeyou - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#164629) #
I don't really see the downside of having Towers as the #5 going into the year.  There aren't likely going to be many outings for the #5 early in the year, and if Towers implodes again Janssen/Marcum will be right there to jump in.  But if Towers makes some quality starts, he might become an attractive trading chip later in the season when Zambrano is ready to come up.  That way the Jays could get some return for him and likely not have to pay the whole $2.9 million on his contract.
Seamus - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#164630) #
Very interesting about Papelbon.

I think this is a good thing for the other teams in the AL East.  The prospect of a Red Sox rotation consisting of Schilling, Dice K, Papelbon, Beckett was potentially pretty scary.

Now Papelbon will be pitching about 70 innings, instead of 200.

CaramonLS - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#164632) #
I've heard Janssen developed a split finger fastball to add to his pitch selection this season. 

Has anyone heard anything about that specific piece of information?
Ron - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#164634) #
TSN has reached a 4 year deal with the Blue Jays. They will be showing 20 games each season plus a minimum of 1 Spring Training game. All games will be in HD.

I haven't seen Sportsnet's schedule yet. Sportsnet didn't show road games in HD last season.

Gerry - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#164635) #

Rumour has it that Janssen did indeed add a splitty this off-season.

Blair's latest suggests the Jays are fielding inquiries about Johnny Mac, Rey Olmedo and Francisco Rosario.  He suggests that all the 25 men on the opening day roster might not be in camp.

Noah - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#164636) #
Just thought I'd point out that this website was mentioned in the Sports Illustrated preview edition.  They have a poll going for the best Blue Jays fansite.

You can vote at www.si.com/bluejaysvote



VBF - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#164637) #
Despite the fact that only have enough time in my day (or patience for that matter) for one fan site, I think they're missing out on a couple (at the very least) of very popular and very good places to read up on the Jays.
Mylegacy - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#164638) #

I listened to the game Towers just pitched against the Phillies on the Phillies broadcast. Even their guys seemed to think Towers was getting squeezed. At one point Zaun was so sure a guy was struck out he started to run back to the bench only to be called back by the ump.

Lets not get TOO carried away with "Ace" talk. We've got ONE, TWO if Burnett turns a corner in his own head (not a sure thing). Chacin, Ohka, Zambrano and Marcum at their best are low number 3 number 4 guys.  The ONLY guy in the mix with solid number 3 stuff is Janssen.

Smith has GOT to start at SS... Clayton can ride the pines. Not that Smith is that great...

Can the Big Hurt smell April? You bet he can!

After hearing how Zaun's two "challengers" are doing this spring I went out a bought a catchers mitt. I've got the ignorance, I figured I might as well have the "tools" too. Are you SURE it ain't April yet?

greenfrog - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#164640) #
An off-the-wall question: do you think Gillick would be willing to trade Lieber for, say, McGowan (and maybe someone like Banks/Yates/Ramirez)?

Gillick gets young pitching talent; we get a veteran starter in his walk year. I would be a lot more comfortable with Chacin/Lieber/Ohka than Chacin/Ohka/Towers. Then we could send Josh to AAA for starting depth in the (not unlikely) case another starter gets injured.



Rob - Thursday, March 22 2007 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#164642) #
Blair's latest suggests the Jays are fielding inquiries about Johnny Mac, Rey Olmedo and Francisco Rosario.

Hold the phone. Somebody actually wants John McDonald?

Oh, it's the Royals. Okay, good, for a second there, I was really confused.
John Northey - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#164643) #
Hey, if someone wants Johnny Mac I say let them have him for, oh, a bucket of balls or a C level prospect.  Of course, given it is the Royals lets ask for Alex Gordon :)
Ryan Day - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#164648) #

Interesting tidbit from Blair's blog:

General manager J.P. Ricciardi told me Thursday that the team will take “our 12 best arms” north, regardless of who they are. The Blue Jays would like Janssen to get some starts at Triple-A Syracuse, but he could force their hand Saturday with a good outing in Tampa against the New York Yankees. Janssen’s 2006 was ruined by a back injury that he kept to himself.

Flex - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#164649) #
I'm surprised that bit about Janssen's back hasn't been reported more, or that Blair didn't spend more time on it. It would explain a lot of what happened to him in the second half of his season, and certainly makes him a better bet for rotation spot in the future.

What is it with young pitchers that they don't see how they're hurting their prospects in so many ways trying to pitch through pain? I don't get it.
SheldonL - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#164650) #

Flex, I think you just get so caught up that you're in the bigs and that an injury can open up a spot for somebody who may excel at it and steal you job/chance in the bigs.

I'm with Seamus and Mylegacy, a Papelbon-less rotation can surely help the Jays' chances and Jason Smith (the owner of a resume of two multi-homer performances) should be our starter at short or atleast in a platoon with Clayton(or dare I say, Ray Olmedo?).

ramone - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#164654) #
Chacin is getting lit up by the Twins rights now, 5 earned runs through the first 3 innings.
ayjackson - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#164655) #
It seems (from the boxscore) that Gus got roughed up in the first and settled down the rest of the way (five innings).
ramone - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#164656) #

Well listening to the game it sounded like a struggle all the way through, some timely double plays got him out of some later jams.

China fan - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#164657) #
   Jason Smith, the super-sub superman, has already played three positions so far today:  3B, SS and 2B.    At the plate, he has two hits, including a double and his 8th RBI of the spring, and his batting average now stands at .378.     And the boxscore also lists a "Smith" who is playing in left field for the Jays today.  I don't think it's the same Smith, but who knows -- the super-sub has been playing the outfield too.....
Marc Hulet - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#164659) #
David Smith is the outfielder.
Rob - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#164660) #
Hey, if someone wants Johnny Mac I say let them have him

Never mind, KC found another shortstop who can't hit. Only when you start with Angel Berroa is this considered a major improvement.
ramone - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#164663) #
According to Blair's newest blog League's fastball is topping out at around 88mph, and the Jays are actively looking to trade Rosario.  I would have thought that with League certainly on the DL to start the year now we'd be keeping Rosario in the pen. 
Michael - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#164664) #
What is it with young pitchers that they don't see how they're hurting their prospects in so many ways trying to pitch through pain?

I don't think it is limited to pitchers, position players do it too.  Part of it is culture.  I.e., in professional sports you are supposed to "man up" and be tough and not show weakness.
VBF - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#164665) #
Flex, I think you just get so caught up that you're in the bigs and that an injury can open up a spot for somebody who may excel at it and steal you job/chance in the bigs.

I agree. Guys always make it to the bigs, get injured, and their careers spiral out of control shortly afterwards. This would scare anyone, especially when you're one good season away from providing a significant amount of financial stability for your family. Who knows? Maybe Casey's mother needed an expensive operation? I know it sounds extreme, but tell me who wouldn't do anything to make that big league paycheck and have the opportunity to make more if you can get that one year under your belt.

It sure looks stupid if you're a fan of the team and care about the overall progress of the franchise, but I cannot condemn someone for doing what Janssen did. A lot of very smart people would do the same.
Joanna - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#164666) #

I remember Janssen talking about studying tapes of his motion after bad outings and figuring out that his butt was collapsing and it was leaving pitches up.  The hidden back injury explains that.  Young pitchers freak out about injuries because they can feel other prospects breathing down their neck.  Some, even those with huge contracts, continue to hide injuries out of habit or pride or extreme desire to compete.

timpinder - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#164667) #

The report that League's fastball is topping out at 88-91 mph is troubling.  I hope that the long toss sessions can help him.  With League out of the picture for at least a little while, I'm surprised to hear that Riccardi is 'actively' seeking to trade Rosario.  I was predicting a break-out year for Rosario, especially considering his stuff and his 2006 AAA performance.  I just have a bad feeling that Rosario's going to get traded and finish the year with a 2.50 ERA for another major league team. 

With League out for while and the potential departure of Rosario, the pen might look like this:
Ryan, Frasor, Downs, Janssen, Marcum, Zambrano, Accardo. 

Even though I'd like to see Janssen and/or Marcum getting regular starts in AAA, their ability to gobble up innings will be useful if there are a lot of early exits for Chacin and Towers.  I know Zambrano's pitched well so far, but don't managers lose their minds over pitchers who come out of the pen and walk batters?  Zambrano's career BB9 rate is not very pretty.  I'd rather see Zambrano starting in AAA to get ready to replace the first starter who gets hammered or injured.

Mylegacy - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#164668) #

League's got me thinking...

For the last 5+ years this guy could throw 96+ without breaking a sweat. This past winter he lifts weights differently than in the past and now he's at 89-91. It got me wondering how many pitchers just need a physical/muscular adjustment to turn into a 96+ guy? What university studies have shown which exercises pitchers have to do (and not do) to maximize their velocity?

It seems to me there are some major breakthroughs to be made in how a pitcher should train. "League's Lament" might just start a whole new branch of kinesiology.

Mylegacy - Friday, March 23 2007 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#164669) #

Ryan Day reported this earlier in this thread:

Interesting tidbit from Blair's blog:

General manager J.P. Ricciardi told me Thursday that the team will take “our 12 best arms” north, regardless of who they are. The Blue Jays would like Janssen to get some starts at Triple-A Syracuse, but he could force their hand Saturday with a good outing in Tampa against the New York Yankees. Janssen’s 2006 was ruined by a back injury that he kept to himself.

It got me thinking. SO, I wrote the names of the 17 pitchers in the mix alphabetically and then selected them 1 through 17 based on my impression of their "best arms." Here's my results; the 17 and their placing...Accardo(16), Burnett(2), Chacin(12), Downs(7), Frasor(9), Halladay(1), Janssen(5), League(4), Marcum(11), McGowan(14), Ohka(8), Rosario(10), Ryan(3), Tallet(13), Towers(15), Thomson(17), Zambrano(6).

From that I get the following starters: Halladay (1), Burnett (2), Janssen (5), Zambrano (6), Ohka (8)

And the following relievers: Ryan (3), League (4), Downs (7), Frasor (9), Rosario (10), Marcum (11), Chacin (12) and because League is injured: Tallet (13)

The rest: McGowan (14), Towers (15), Accardo (16), Thomson (17).

I could go north with that 12 (13).

Magpie - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 12:33 AM EDT (#164670) #
trying to pitch through pain?

In addition to what's already been said, there's the fact that for most people, pitching hurts. Always. It's such a violent and unnatural thing to put the body through, and pitchers frequently have trouble telling the difference between normal everyday pain (that gets treated with an icepack the size of Alberta) and something new and disturbing.

Jim Palmer once said that the cure for what ails all pitchers was to take a year off, and then just stop altogether.
Magpie - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 12:38 AM EDT (#164671) #
I could go north with that 12 (13).

I would be very reluctant to stick Zambrano in the rotation right away. It's an amazing recovery, but I'd still want to be careful.

I'm not sure what "best arms" means. McGowan has a better arm than at least ten of the other guys named. But almost all of them are better pitchers than young Dustin. And every single one of those guys, without exception, has a better arm than Tom Glavine.
westcoast dude - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 08:17 AM EDT (#164675) #

normal everyday pain

At the other end of the spectrum (bell curve?) from Jim Palmer is Victor Zambrano.  TJ surgery pain?  Never had any (writes Blair yesterday).

AWeb - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#164686) #
Towers is a tough pitcher to manage on a short leash. Now, I'm not saying that he shouldn't have one, but it's a test for the management/coaches. In 2005 (his very good year), he had a 5.66 ERA after 4 starts. From there, he was the best pitcher on the Jays. In 2005, he logged a career high in innings at 208.7. He was ridden especially hard in September that year, with 44 innings over 6 starts. I haven't seen it mentioned much here, but maybe that was too many innings, especially all at the end. Not everyone breaks down into injury, some just lose a few miles/hour off the fastball and start missing their spots more often. And leave the ball up for homeruns.

On another topic, Wang is out for a month to start the year, and from years of waiting for Shannon Stewart, most of us know that a hamstring problem can go on seemingly forever. It would be funny if the Yankees finally had a series of injury problems and they ended up being to the younger players, instead of the older ones that have defied the odds for them for so long.
Magpie - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#164687) #
Towers is a tough pitcher to manage on a short leash.

Luckily (we hope!) there are trained professionals on the case, rather than someone like me, and they'll be looking at how the man is throwing the ball just as much as what the results happen to be. You'll recall when Dave Bush was sent down after his 0-5 start in 2005- everyone knew, including management, that he was only 0-5 because of incredibly bad luck. But they didn't like the way he was pitching (and the way he was coping, for that matter) and sent him down to address the problem. Certainly Gibbons and Arnsberg are familiar enough with Towers to know when he's throwing the ball well and when he's not. (They thought he was throwing very well his last time out, when he gave up 9 hits and 5 runs in 4.2 IP)
CaramonLS - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#164688) #
Rumour has it that Janssen did indeed add a splitty this off-season.

Well, you'd think it would get a little more play.  The guy is dominating in Spring and adds a new pitch.

Anyways Gerry is mentioning it during the broadcast that he did indeed throw a splitfinger.

Of course as i type this Arod hits a game tying Homerun shot.  Then again it is spring training and we shouldn't be at all shocked.
Jacko - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#164689) #
The A-Rod shot was Janssen's only mistake.  Forgivable if you ask me.  4 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 4 K is still a solid line.

He does seem to have added a few MPH to his fastball.  The Yanks annoucers kept remarking on how hard he was throwing, largely because he was contradicting their game notes that described him as a "command and control" type of pitcher.  He may have earned himself a shot in the rotation with this appearance.  Thomson has been terrible, and Chacin hasn't been much better.  If Towers rebounds and Chacin and Thomson continue to struggle, the 3-4-5 starters might start off as Ohka, Towers, and Janssen.

Zambrano looked great for the first 3 IP, and then visibly tired in the 4th.  He wasn't throwing all that hard, but he was getting strikeouts using his breaking stuff.  He's going to have to go to the minors and build up his arm strength, but he looks like he might be able to provide a huge mid-season boost at the back of the rotation.

zeppelinkm - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#164692) #
I didn't get to see the game this afternoon cept for the first half inning of Jannsen's. It did seem to me like the announcers didn't really know the Jays well at all. Buddy was like "The Jays bullpen appears to be in trouble", and I was like, yeah, you're right. Then he proceeds to add "Because they lost veterans like Showenweis and .. Was it Shields?" (other guy corrects him on Speier), and he carries on. No mention of League, or BJ Ryan's slow start, which really are the key issues facing the Jays bullpen...

ahh well!

What was Jannsen, or is Jannsen, hitting on the radar gun today/these days?
timpinder - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#164695) #

Janssen's fastball was consistantly 91-92 MPH.  His slider was around 88 MPH, and his breaking ball came in at about 75 MPH, from what I saw.  He looked really good, I was pleasantly surprised.  He may end up being an important part of the rotation at some point in the year.

westcoast dude - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#164704) #
First time through the Yankee lineup, Zambrano was fine.  Cano's strikeout cut him off at the hands. After three innings, I was reflecting on Friedrich Nietzsche's Also Sprach Zarathustra: "I teach you the superman. Man is something to be surpassed." Then he weakened.  However,  League and/or Ryan are covered because the bullpen now oozes Stuff with Zambrano, Marcum and Janssen at the Bridge. Ditto with Glaus/Clayton--Smith overshadows them. In a way, Smith came by way of Ted Lilly's departure to the Cubs. He appears to be one of  the great managerial Rule 5 hi-jacks of all time. Way to go, JP and crew.
Magpie - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#164708) #
[Jason Smith] appears to be one of  the great managerial Rule 5 hi-jacks of all time.

Whoa, there, whoa! Smith has had a nice camp, and looks like a useful bench piece. But one of the greatest Rule 5 hi-jacks ever? Right up there with Johan Santana and George Bell?
Paul D - Saturday, March 24 2007 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#164711) #
Whoa, there, whoa! Smith has had a nice camp, and looks like a useful bench piece. But one of the greatest Rule 5 hi-jacks ever? Right up there with Johan Santana and George Bell?

Not to mention Roberto Clemente....
John Northey - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 12:44 AM EDT (#164715) #
Rule 5's have been good to Toronto...
George Bell, Willie Upshaw, Manny Lee, Kelly Gruber, Jim Acker, Aquilino Lopez (14 saves and a 138 ERA+ his first year then fell apart).  That is just the handful I remember (although that could be it for ones who played a significant role).

Jason Smith has a long way to go to be a top 6 Rule V pick for Toronto, let alone one of the all-time great ones.

Ron - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 02:36 AM EDT (#164717) #
Jason Smith's career MLB line is .230/.270/.385 and his minor league line is .264/.307/.423
Don't forget his last minor league stint was in Colorado.

Smith is 29 years old and is quite simply having a few hot weeks at the plate. Anybody that thinks he will be a key piece of the Jays this season is fooling themselves. I'll be shocked if he stays with the Jays all season.

China fan - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 03:01 AM EDT (#164718) #

    Prepare to be shocked.  Jason Smith will definitely be with the Jays for the entire season, and the Jays have already informed him of this.   That's because of the Rule 5 requirements.  Under those rules, he has to be kept with the Jays for the entire season, unless he is offered back to the Cubs for half of the $50,000 the Jays spent to acquire him.  The Jays decided last week to keep Smith, rather than offer him back to the Cubs, and so now he will be kept with the Jays for the full season.

    Of course it's possible that he's just having a hot few weeks -- nobody is predicting that he will hit .370 for the entire season.  But he looks like a useful player, and I expect he'll see a lot of action as the main back-up for all of the infield positions, and even occasionally in the outfield. 

MrElbertBuffin - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 03:05 AM EDT (#164719) #
I don't think that Jason Smith is going to be a stand out performer on this team (if he is, then there is something wrong).  I also don't think that he should be labelled a bust, or looked at as simply taking up a spot on the roster.  The fact that he is happy playing in a bench role, can play at four (or more?) positions on the field, bats left (though thats not to say that his career .655 OPS vs. RHP is going to scare anyone), and possesses decent speed is definately an asset for the team. 

While I'm sure that there are better utility bench players, Smith's versatility and willingness to play the role ought to count in his favour.  I would much rather have someone happy to help the team from the bench than someone who is unhappy in the role and becomes a malcontent.

MrElbertBuffin - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 03:09 AM EDT (#164720) #
I also don't think that he should be labelled a bust, or looked at as simply taking up a spot on the roster.

Of course I mean that he shouldn't be labelled a bust when he fails to hit .370 in the regular season.  I imagine we are all agreeing that this will most likely not happen.
westcoast dude - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 08:12 AM EDT (#164722) #

George Bell

George Bell was good, but was he MVP good, or was that the result of Tony Kubek talking him up after he had a late season two strike home run against a Yankee pitcher? How can you compare apples and oranges? Not only can Jason handle the hot corner, he's a natural shortstop with a linedrive swing that jumps off his bat. No, he's not as good as the immortal Roberto Clemente. Notice I did not say the greatest of all time.

Paul D - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#164725) #
Just because that Jays have told told Smith that he's going North with them, doesn't mean they can't send him back to the Cubs later.  Although I suspect that if he spends any decent amount of time in Toronto, they'd get him to fake an injury instead of sending  him back.

I think Smith has platoon potential

Magpie - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#164734) #
Not only can Jason handle the hot corner, he's a natural shortstop with a linedrive swing that jumps off his bat.

Which makes him not unlike another Jays Rule 5 pick. I refer of course to Tomas Perez, although Smith is very unlikely to accomplish as much in the majors as Perez.

Was George Bell an MVP? Well, it was the baseball writers of America, from Seattle to Boston, who voted him the award, with no help from Tony Kubek that I'm aware of. They happened to be wrong on that occasion, but Bell had more than one season that was good enough to win an MVP award. People have won the MVP for seasons not as impressive as Kelly Gruber's 1990 campaign, now that I think of it.
andrewkw - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#164740) #
Apparently its now become a question of If not when Brandon League comes back. 

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070325.wsptleague25/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

this seems like an usually negative piece from Blair basically saying he could be done.  I'm not sure what to make of the "slight tear" since his MRI in florida showed nothing.  One thing is sure an area of strength is starting to look like a weakness, but I think Frasor will do the 8th inning job just fine.  I don't think he has the potential to dominate like League could.

timpinder - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#164748) #
That's very disappointing stuff about League.  I think that the loss of League hurts more than J.P.'s willing to admit.  It's time for one of the young guys with great stuff, such as Rosario or Accardo, to step up and finally reach their potential and fill that 8th inning void.  (My money's on Rosario, if J.P. doesn't trade him first).  Frasor will be a decent stop-gap measure so it's not the end of the world, but it definitely hurts.
Flex - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#164749) #
Based on what I know about League, I wasn't counting on him for a thing this year. I suspect the Jays were equally suspicious, though of course hopeful they were wrong.

I'm more concerned about Troy Glaus. Blair's blog bit is up, and this is the second or third time he's made reference to how slow Glaus is moving in the field. Apparently he made his third error of the spring today and Blair wrote: "It's painful watching him bend down."

I don't like the sounds of an old plank of wood playing third base.
Rickster - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#164750) #

I think that the loss of League hurts more than J.P.'s willing to admit.

Do you want him to come out in public saying its a disaster and he'd trade anything for another set-up guy? I hope he's finally learning some discretion and delivering cliches to the media rather than telling us what he really thinks (ie "Our 3-4-5 guys are killing us!")

I personally think this is terrible news. I thought League had finally turned the corner last year. The only reason Rosario was on the block was because he's out of options and not good enough to make the team. If League is out, that changes things.

andrewkw - Sunday, March 25 2007 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#164753) #
I miss Speier even more now.  Even if he ended up being an overpriced middle reliever in the last 2 years of his deal it wouldn't have been the worst idea to keep him.  I mean the angels gave him 4 years and already have a better setup man.  I realize cost was the main issue, but still..
Mike Green - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#164757) #
Could #2JacobBrumfield and Ryan Day please contact me by clicking on my name?



Radster - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#164767) #

It sounds like someone's been called to the principal's office ...

Towers and Marcum's lines looked good today - I'd say they both will head North.  Tallet didn't seem to do himself any favours in giving up a homer to tie the game in the 9th!

timpinder - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#164768) #

No, Tallet has not been very good at all, and Accardo helped himself out by striking out the side in his only inning of work the other day.  If I had to bet, at this point the bullpen would consist of Ryan, Frasor, Downs, Marcum, Janssen, Accardo and Rosario (if he's not traded), with Zambrano starting in AAA to build up his arm strength.  I think the five starters have been decided, but I wouldn't be surprised if the order after Halladay and Burnett was shaken up.

Tom L - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#164771) #
Steve Phillips was on TSN earlier today and he believes that Zambrano will be the fourth starter with Towers heading north as the long man in the bullpen. Don't know if his performance today changes that or not.
westcoast dude - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#164774) #

It was delightful listening to the Pirates radio crew today. They were impressed with Towers and a sparkling play by Ryan Roberts behind Marcum. What I found intriguing was the discussion on closers. One colour man says closing is the hardest thing in baseball, the other one flat out contradicts him, says it's the easiest and he made a good case. So now I'm thinking the job of setup man has to be just about the same as long as the pitcher can handle the pressure. In other words, League is replaceable, just call an Iceman.

Smithers - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#164778) #
A few interesting points that I came across while trolling for news on the makeup of the pitching staff.

From Bastian's Blog
"Before the game, Toronto pitching coach Brad Arnsberg revealed what we've all already been writing about -- John Thomson is no longer in the running for a job with the Jays. He's scheduled to pitch 1-2 innings in Winter Haven on Wednesday, but there's no room for him in Toronto's bullpen or rotation."

From Blair, re:League:
"Privately, there are those with the team who think League may not be back in 2007. League himself is uncertain whether he'll be able to dream of 100 mph again."

And a feel good note on Dave LaRoche from today's game:

"Dave LaRoche, Toronto's double-A pitching coach, made the trip to Bradenton and coached first base a few feet from where his son played defensively.  "It's cool," Adam LaRoche said. "It's neat for me after all those years watching him in a big league uniform to be out there with him." "

So Towers looks like he'll claim the 5th starter spot until further notice, and Zambrano should be the long man in the pen along  with Janssen until someone amongst Ohka, Chacin and Towers implodes.  Tallet sure doesn't look like he belongs in the bullpen right now.

greenfrog - Monday, March 26 2007 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#164780) #
Something is weird about the League situation. On one hand, the team's official position seems to be that he's fundamentally healthy (with MRIs revealing a structurally sound shoulder), that his mechanics are out of whack (for whatever reason), and as a result, he "just didn't make the team" and is headed for Syracuse.

On the other hand, he isn't John Thomson or Pat Hentgen. He's only 24. He was lights out most of the time in August and September and had a modest workload during the season. And now he's throwing in the high-80s? Because of an extra month off in the off-season, or too much weightlifting?

I just don't get it. I don't think we're getting the whole story. And incidentally, even if it isn't relevant to this injury (it may or may not be), how the heck does League's contract allow him to spend his winter surfing?
Maldoff - Tuesday, March 27 2007 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#164791) #

Over on ESPN.com, Keith Law has an article up about pitchers throwing heat, and why just hitting triple digits doesn't guarantee success.  And, as always, Law jabs at Blue Jays prospects. To paraphrase:

Brandon League - a second-round pick  2001, already had a plus fastball that consistently hit 97-98 mph. Now, in spring training 2007, he has yet to spend more than a few weeks in the majors in any of his call-ups to date.

Francisco Rosario - throws an easy 97-98, has only a well-below-average slider. Will not succeed.

Mike Green - Tuesday, March 27 2007 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#164794) #
The D'Backs acquired Yusmeiro Petit for Jorge Julio according to Rosenthal. Petit is just 22, and he's unlikely to be a rotation ace at any point, but if healthy, he could be a perfectly acceptable starting pitcher.  The D'Backs may not win in 2007, but they are in excellent shape as a franchise.
timpinder - Tuesday, March 27 2007 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#164796) #

Rosario has a "well below average slider"?

I know I'm not a scout, but his slider looks well above average to me.  It's been his control and consistency that have held him back.  Sometimes I wonder if these writers even watch baseball.  (Or maybe I'm the one who's mistaken)

SheldonL - Tuesday, March 27 2007 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#164797) #

On bluejays.com, Bastian quoted League as saying that the reason his velocity isn't there yet is because of his 8 weeks of resting his arm and not throwing. Let him go to Syracuse and get back on a throwing program. Within a couple of weeks, the velocity should be back. Let's not forget that his spring training just started a week ago. I don't think Verlander or Zumaya were throwing 100 mph heaters during the first week of spring.

Let's just chill out a bit and see how this unfolds.

Thomas - Tuesday, March 27 2007 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#164810) #

On bluejays.com, Bastian quoted League as saying that the reason his velocity isn't there yet is because of his 8 weeks of resting his arm and not throwing. Let him go to Syracuse and get back on a throwing program. Within a couple of weeks, the velocity should be back. Let's not forget that his spring training just started a week ago. I don't think Verlander or Zumaya were throwing 100 mph heaters during the first week of spring.

Let's just chill out a bit and see how this unfolds.

I agree it's premature to begin to issue League formal goodbyes, but I don't think the situation is as straightfoward as you believe. When the ever-reliable Jeff Blair and Blue Jays officials are both questioning whether League will ever throw in the high-90's again, the situation is more severe than simply starting his throwing program too late. He did eight weeks of weighlifting that apparently has done some damage to his shouder.

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