In the wake of Roy Halladay's recent 133 pitch effort, the most ever in his career, I took a quick look at how Halladay had fared in his subsequent outings (very, very well indeed as it turned out.)
Seeing as how I have all this data available, I thought I'd also have a look as to where that game stood on the all-time list of pitches thrown by a Blue Jays starter, as well as any other bright and shiny objects that caught my attention.
The mighty and awesome baseball-reference.com has Pitch Count data for almost every game since the 1988 season (which happens to be when STATS started sending guys like me to the ball park every game - coincidence?) This covers roughly two-thirds of Blue Jays history. It'll have to do, although I'd love to know how many pitches Stieb and Clancy were throwing in 1982.
Halladay's effort is tied for 30th place on most pitches thrown in a game by a Jays pitcher over these twenty-plus seasons, along with games tossed by David Wells, Pat Hentgen, Juan Guzman, and Roger Clemens (twice). Here are the games that top that figure:
This is pretty much what you'd expect, no? Most of these games are either the work of veteran mercenaries Just Passin' Through (Clemens, Morris, Cone, Stewart) and many of the others came from the hands of the Young and the Inefficient (Guzman, Leiter, Escobar.) Plus, managers will often give a pitcher a chance to finish a shutout, and both of Juan Guzman's shutouts as a Blue Jay make this list (along with one of Leiter's two Toronto shutouts.) Managers are also more willing to let a pitcher go very deep if it's his last start of the season.
Remarkably enough, Tim Johnson was the manager for 7 of these top 29 games - remarkable of course because Johnson managed just the one season. Johnson was the manager for the highest pitch count of all (Clemens' 149 pitches in an 8 inning loss to Oakland), and Mel Queen, of all people, managed one of the two games tied for second place on this list (Clemens' 144 pitch game against Boston in September 1998). Cito Gaston was at the helm for the other 21 games, and the biggest pitch count under his stewardship was Jack Morris' Opening Day statement (144 pitch complete game) in Detroit in 1992.
We don't have any data for Roy Hartsfield, Bobby Mattick, or Bobby Cox - and we're missing most of Jimy Williams' tenure. The biggest pitch count we have for Jimy Williams is 132, from Jim Clancy against Seattle in May 1988. That figure (132 pitches) is also the most Jim Fregosi asked of anyone (Kelvim Escobar against Detroit in July 1999. Carlos Tosca had Escobar throw 131 pitches in a game against Tampa in September 2003.
The highest pitch count under John Gibbons was the 130 pitches A.J. Burnett threw against Tampa Bay in June 2007. Under Buck Martinez, the highest total was 124 (Chris Carpenter in October 1991 - last start of the year.)
There are two very odd games here. Who expected to see Huck Flener on this list? Flener's 139 pitch effort came against the Angels in August 1996. Flener wasn't working on a shutout, and he took a comfortable 7-1 lead into the 8th inning. At that point, he'd thrown 117 pitches and Gaston sent him out for the 8th inning. He got two outs, gave up a walk and a double (and threw another 22 pitches) before Tim Crabtree came in. I'm not sure why Gaston waited so long. I assume it was mainly because the 1996 team had a really awful bullpen. It consisted of ace Tony Castillo, failed starter Paul Quantrill (this was before he developed into the Mighty and Omnipotent Q) and a bunch of generally inept kids. Remember Marty Janzen?
It's a little surprising (to me anyway) to see Woody Williams even make this list - I always thought of him as a six inning pitcher. But both his 130+ efforts came during the Tim Johnson era, and no Toronto manager (that we have data for) was more willing than Johnson to have his starter throw a lot of pitches.
The other game that caught my attention came in June 1989, when Cito Gaston left Jimmy Key in to throw 141 pitches against Milwaukee. This is unusual mainly because it was Jimmy Key - the next highest outing for Key as a Jay that we know about was 124 pitches in 1990 (although I'd sure like to see his 1987 pitch counts under Jimy Williams.) But it's also very easy to see why Key was tasked to do all this work. This was the day after one of the most famous games in Blue Jays history - the rally from a 10-0 deficit against the Red Sox. In that game, one of Gaston's long relievers (Xavier Hernandez) had pitched 6.1 IP out of the pen. His other long reliever (Frank Wills) was scheduled to make an emergency start the following day in place of an ailing Mike Flanagan (Flanagan was unable to pitch, but not hurt badly enough to hit the DL and would only miss one start.) Theoretically, Alex Sanchez was available out of the pen after lasting just one-third of an inning in his start the day before. But you can see why Gaston might not have wanted to see him pitch ever again. The other three guys in the pen - Henke, Ward, Wells - were all used in short relief roles. So it was Key against the house that day.
Here's an odd bit of Jimmy Key trivia. He was the winning pitcher in the deciding game of the 1992 World Series - and he left the new champions as a free agent to sign with a division rival. Then he was the winning pitcher in the deciding game of the 1996 World Series - and he left the new champions as a free agent to sign with a division rival.
Here are the highest pitch counts we know of for some other starters of local interest:
Miguel Batista - 123 (May 29, 2004)
David Bush - 117 (Oct 1, 2004) a shutout and his last start of the year
John Cerutti - 124 (May 27, 1989)
Gustavo Chacin - 116 (June 1, 2005)
Mike Flanagan - 128 (June 16, 1988) - alas, we don;t have the data for his final start of 1987.
Erik Hanson - 128 (June 19, 1996)
Ted Lilly - 126 (August 23, 2004) a shutout
Esteban Loaiza - 131 (September 8, 2000) a shutout
Dustin McGowan - 125 (June 10, 2008)
Dave Stieb - 129 (July 1, 1988)
Todd Stottlemyre - 126 (August 10, 1991)
Josh Towers - 128 (October 3, 2004) last start of the year
David Wells - 133 (July 1, 1990)
While I was at it, I thought I'd look at the career Game Logs for several other pitchers who passed through town, and I've found five who matched or surpassed the top Toronto pitch count (149 pitches) while they were wearing another uniform.
Dave Stewart had two 149 pitch games between 1988-1992 while with Oakland, and three other games that topped 140 pitches. Tony LaRussa was his manager.
David Cone threw 166 pitches against the Giants in July 1992 (Jeff Torborg, who would later become notorious for abusing his young arms in Florida, was the Mets manager). Cone had 9 other games that topped 140 pitches during his Mets tenure from 1988-1992. He never topped 140 pitches during his stints with Kansas City or the Yankees.
Jack Morris threw 161 pitches against Texas in April 1988, and had three other games that topped 140 pitches while with Detroit from 1988-1990. Officially, Sparky Anderson made him do it, although it was always a little difficult to get Morris to come out of a game willingly. Still, he never threw that many pitches during his stints with the Twins or the Indians (no, not the 10 inning World Series game.)
Al Leiter threw 163 pitches against the Twins in April 1989, in one of the most notorious cases of Young Pitcher Abuse I am aware of. It's not just the number of pitches - it was also cold (47 F, or about 10 degrees) damp, and generally nasty April night in New York. It was a quick game (2:33) despite Leiter's 10 Ks and 9 walks), but still - he was 23 years old, he was probably the best home grown pitching prospect the Yankees had produced since Ron Guidry (they had traded to get Dave Righetti) and Dallas Green did that to him? But the Yankees management shrewdly traded him away three weeks later, and Leiter would spend most of the next four years battling arm miseries on someone else's watch. (Everyone remembers the blisters, which actually only troubled him for a couple of months in one of those years. There were also surgeries on his shoulder and his elbow before he made it back to the majors to stay.)
Leiter also threw 142 pitches in the final game of the 2000 World Series, which is the only post-season pitch count I've found (from these five guys, and from the Blue Jays in the post-season) that cracks 140.
And then - naturally - there's Roger Clemens. Clemens has at least three games (we don't have his first few seasons, which include a couple of Cy Young years) in which he threw more than 160 pitches, topped by a 162 pitch effort in July 1988. In Texas, in mid-summer. Yikes. And in his very next start, Joe Morgan left him out there to throw another 149 pitches against Milwaukee. This was the seventh time in barely more than half a season that Morgan had left Clemens out there to throw more than 140 pitches in a game - and at this point, he promptly fell right off the cliff for a while, losing his next five starts. Back then, as some of you may recall, Clemens looked a whole lot different than the guy who pitched here and in New York. Not nearly so chunky...
Clemens threw 161 pitches against Detroit in August 1990 - this was the third game of a streak when Clemens won eight consecutive starts. Joe Morgan was still the manager. This was the only game in that run when he threw more than 140 pitches, but the Red Sox had to shut him down when it was over. He missed most of September, but returned to beat the Blue Jays in a crucial game in the final week of the season. Let us not speak of it. I remember that weekend all too well. Jeff Stone?
He also threw 161 pitches against the Orioles in July 1996. He didn't even make it through the 8th inning in that game, he simply wasn't very efficient (two 9 pitch at bats, one 8 pitch at bat, four 7 pitch at bats). Kevin Kennedy was managing Boston by this time.
Clemens had another five games in which he threw 150-159 pitches, and another 15 games in which he threw 140-149 pitches. All of these games came while he was wearing a Red Sox uniform. As you can see, he topped 140 pitches three times as a Blue Jay. He never threw that many while pitching for either New York or Houston - the highest post Blue Jay total total I found was 138, in his 15 K one hitter against Seattle for the Yankees in the 2000 ALCS.
Seeing as how I have all this data available, I thought I'd also have a look as to where that game stood on the all-time list of pitches thrown by a Blue Jays starter, as well as any other bright and shiny objects that caught my attention.
The mighty and awesome baseball-reference.com has Pitch Count data for almost every game since the 1988 season (which happens to be when STATS started sending guys like me to the ball park every game - coincidence?) This covers roughly two-thirds of Blue Jays history. It'll have to do, although I'd love to know how many pitches Stieb and Clancy were throwing in 1982.
Halladay's effort is tied for 30th place on most pitches thrown in a game by a Jays pitcher over these twenty-plus seasons, along with games tossed by David Wells, Pat Hentgen, Juan Guzman, and Roger Clemens (twice). Here are the games that top that figure:
Pitcer Date Opp Dec Score IP H R ER BB SO HR BF Pit GmSc
1 Clemens May 13 1998 OAK L 2-4 8 4 4 1 6 9 0 37 149 67
2 Morris Apr 6 1992 @DET W 4-2 9 5 2 2 3 7 2 35 144 73
Clemens Sep 28 1997 BOS 3-2 8.1 7 2 2 2 8 0 35 144 67
4 Key Jun 5 1989 MIL L 3-5 9 9 5 5 2 5 1 37 141 52
Clemens Jun 30 1998 NYM W 6-3 9 6 3 3 1 11 1 35 141 73
Cone Sep 14 1992 CLE L 1-2 8 5 2 2 4 8 1 33 141 68
7 Cone Jun 28 1995 @BOS W 8-4 8.1 6 4 4 1 11 2 33 139 65
Flener Aug 4 1996 CAL W 7-1 7.2 8 1 1 3 6 0 33 139 62
9 Guzman Apr 29 1993 KCR W 8-0 9 5 0 0 4 9 0 35 138 82
10 Clemens Aug 7 1997 CLE W 4-0 9 5 0 0 3 10 0 35 137 84
Clemens Sep 7 1997 TEX W 4-0 9 2 0 0 0 14 0 31 137 97
Hentgen Sep 20 1996 @BAL W 5-1 8.1 8 1 1 4 5 0 36 137 64
13 Leiter Sep 17 1995 MIL W 5-0 9 6 0 0 2 10 0 33 136 83
14 Cone Jun 11 1995 @KCR 2-3 9 7 2 2 4 8 0 38 135 69
Stewart Jun 5 1994 @SEA W 5-4 7 7 3 3 4 6 0 31 135 53
Hentgen Jun 12 1994 NYY W 3-1 8 3 1 1 5 6 0 31 135 73
Cone Jul 8(1) 1995 @OAK W 9-6 8.1 10 5 5 0 10 1 36 135 53
Guzman Jul 16 1996 @BAL W 6-0 9 5 0 0 0 4 0 32 135 81
Clemens Jul 28(1) 1997 @MIL L 0-1 8 4 1 1 1 10 0 28 135 79
Morris Aug 1 1993 DET W 2-1 9 6 1 1 6 8 0 37 135 73
Candiotti Sep 2 1991 BAL 5-4 7 9 4 2 3 8 1 34 135 52
Escobar Aug 27 1998 KCR W 11-1 8.2 7 1 1 1 7 0 33 135 72
23 Hentgen Apr 9 1996 CAL W 5-0 9 5 0 0 3 6 0 34 134 80
Cone May 19 1995 @DET W 4-2 9 4 2 2 3 5 1 32 134 73
Guzman May 10 1998 @SEA L 1-3 7.1 4 2 0 2 11 1 29 134 75
Carpenter Jun 2 1998 BOS L 3-11 7.2 8 7 7 2 6 2 33 134 39
Leiter Sep 6 1995 @KCR W 6-2 8 8 1 1 3 5 1 36 134 64
Clemens Aug 20 1998 @SEA W 7-0 9 3 0 0 2 6 0 31 134 85
Williams, W Aug 28 1998 MIN W 7-6 7 7 6 5 5 4 0 34 134 40
This is pretty much what you'd expect, no? Most of these games are either the work of veteran mercenaries Just Passin' Through (Clemens, Morris, Cone, Stewart) and many of the others came from the hands of the Young and the Inefficient (Guzman, Leiter, Escobar.) Plus, managers will often give a pitcher a chance to finish a shutout, and both of Juan Guzman's shutouts as a Blue Jay make this list (along with one of Leiter's two Toronto shutouts.) Managers are also more willing to let a pitcher go very deep if it's his last start of the season.
Remarkably enough, Tim Johnson was the manager for 7 of these top 29 games - remarkable of course because Johnson managed just the one season. Johnson was the manager for the highest pitch count of all (Clemens' 149 pitches in an 8 inning loss to Oakland), and Mel Queen, of all people, managed one of the two games tied for second place on this list (Clemens' 144 pitch game against Boston in September 1998). Cito Gaston was at the helm for the other 21 games, and the biggest pitch count under his stewardship was Jack Morris' Opening Day statement (144 pitch complete game) in Detroit in 1992.
We don't have any data for Roy Hartsfield, Bobby Mattick, or Bobby Cox - and we're missing most of Jimy Williams' tenure. The biggest pitch count we have for Jimy Williams is 132, from Jim Clancy against Seattle in May 1988. That figure (132 pitches) is also the most Jim Fregosi asked of anyone (Kelvim Escobar against Detroit in July 1999. Carlos Tosca had Escobar throw 131 pitches in a game against Tampa in September 2003.
The highest pitch count under John Gibbons was the 130 pitches A.J. Burnett threw against Tampa Bay in June 2007. Under Buck Martinez, the highest total was 124 (Chris Carpenter in October 1991 - last start of the year.)
There are two very odd games here. Who expected to see Huck Flener on this list? Flener's 139 pitch effort came against the Angels in August 1996. Flener wasn't working on a shutout, and he took a comfortable 7-1 lead into the 8th inning. At that point, he'd thrown 117 pitches and Gaston sent him out for the 8th inning. He got two outs, gave up a walk and a double (and threw another 22 pitches) before Tim Crabtree came in. I'm not sure why Gaston waited so long. I assume it was mainly because the 1996 team had a really awful bullpen. It consisted of ace Tony Castillo, failed starter Paul Quantrill (this was before he developed into the Mighty and Omnipotent Q) and a bunch of generally inept kids. Remember Marty Janzen?
It's a little surprising (to me anyway) to see Woody Williams even make this list - I always thought of him as a six inning pitcher. But both his 130+ efforts came during the Tim Johnson era, and no Toronto manager (that we have data for) was more willing than Johnson to have his starter throw a lot of pitches.
The other game that caught my attention came in June 1989, when Cito Gaston left Jimmy Key in to throw 141 pitches against Milwaukee. This is unusual mainly because it was Jimmy Key - the next highest outing for Key as a Jay that we know about was 124 pitches in 1990 (although I'd sure like to see his 1987 pitch counts under Jimy Williams.) But it's also very easy to see why Key was tasked to do all this work. This was the day after one of the most famous games in Blue Jays history - the rally from a 10-0 deficit against the Red Sox. In that game, one of Gaston's long relievers (Xavier Hernandez) had pitched 6.1 IP out of the pen. His other long reliever (Frank Wills) was scheduled to make an emergency start the following day in place of an ailing Mike Flanagan (Flanagan was unable to pitch, but not hurt badly enough to hit the DL and would only miss one start.) Theoretically, Alex Sanchez was available out of the pen after lasting just one-third of an inning in his start the day before. But you can see why Gaston might not have wanted to see him pitch ever again. The other three guys in the pen - Henke, Ward, Wells - were all used in short relief roles. So it was Key against the house that day.
Here's an odd bit of Jimmy Key trivia. He was the winning pitcher in the deciding game of the 1992 World Series - and he left the new champions as a free agent to sign with a division rival. Then he was the winning pitcher in the deciding game of the 1996 World Series - and he left the new champions as a free agent to sign with a division rival.
Here are the highest pitch counts we know of for some other starters of local interest:
Miguel Batista - 123 (May 29, 2004)
David Bush - 117 (Oct 1, 2004) a shutout and his last start of the year
John Cerutti - 124 (May 27, 1989)
Gustavo Chacin - 116 (June 1, 2005)
Mike Flanagan - 128 (June 16, 1988) - alas, we don;t have the data for his final start of 1987.
Erik Hanson - 128 (June 19, 1996)
Ted Lilly - 126 (August 23, 2004) a shutout
Esteban Loaiza - 131 (September 8, 2000) a shutout
Dustin McGowan - 125 (June 10, 2008)
Dave Stieb - 129 (July 1, 1988)
Todd Stottlemyre - 126 (August 10, 1991)
Josh Towers - 128 (October 3, 2004) last start of the year
David Wells - 133 (July 1, 1990)
While I was at it, I thought I'd look at the career Game Logs for several other pitchers who passed through town, and I've found five who matched or surpassed the top Toronto pitch count (149 pitches) while they were wearing another uniform.
Dave Stewart had two 149 pitch games between 1988-1992 while with Oakland, and three other games that topped 140 pitches. Tony LaRussa was his manager.
David Cone threw 166 pitches against the Giants in July 1992 (Jeff Torborg, who would later become notorious for abusing his young arms in Florida, was the Mets manager). Cone had 9 other games that topped 140 pitches during his Mets tenure from 1988-1992. He never topped 140 pitches during his stints with Kansas City or the Yankees.
Jack Morris threw 161 pitches against Texas in April 1988, and had three other games that topped 140 pitches while with Detroit from 1988-1990. Officially, Sparky Anderson made him do it, although it was always a little difficult to get Morris to come out of a game willingly. Still, he never threw that many pitches during his stints with the Twins or the Indians (no, not the 10 inning World Series game.)
Al Leiter threw 163 pitches against the Twins in April 1989, in one of the most notorious cases of Young Pitcher Abuse I am aware of. It's not just the number of pitches - it was also cold (47 F, or about 10 degrees) damp, and generally nasty April night in New York. It was a quick game (2:33) despite Leiter's 10 Ks and 9 walks), but still - he was 23 years old, he was probably the best home grown pitching prospect the Yankees had produced since Ron Guidry (they had traded to get Dave Righetti) and Dallas Green did that to him? But the Yankees management shrewdly traded him away three weeks later, and Leiter would spend most of the next four years battling arm miseries on someone else's watch. (Everyone remembers the blisters, which actually only troubled him for a couple of months in one of those years. There were also surgeries on his shoulder and his elbow before he made it back to the majors to stay.)
Leiter also threw 142 pitches in the final game of the 2000 World Series, which is the only post-season pitch count I've found (from these five guys, and from the Blue Jays in the post-season) that cracks 140.
And then - naturally - there's Roger Clemens. Clemens has at least three games (we don't have his first few seasons, which include a couple of Cy Young years) in which he threw more than 160 pitches, topped by a 162 pitch effort in July 1988. In Texas, in mid-summer. Yikes. And in his very next start, Joe Morgan left him out there to throw another 149 pitches against Milwaukee. This was the seventh time in barely more than half a season that Morgan had left Clemens out there to throw more than 140 pitches in a game - and at this point, he promptly fell right off the cliff for a while, losing his next five starts. Back then, as some of you may recall, Clemens looked a whole lot different than the guy who pitched here and in New York. Not nearly so chunky...
Clemens threw 161 pitches against Detroit in August 1990 - this was the third game of a streak when Clemens won eight consecutive starts. Joe Morgan was still the manager. This was the only game in that run when he threw more than 140 pitches, but the Red Sox had to shut him down when it was over. He missed most of September, but returned to beat the Blue Jays in a crucial game in the final week of the season. Let us not speak of it. I remember that weekend all too well. Jeff Stone?
He also threw 161 pitches against the Orioles in July 1996. He didn't even make it through the 8th inning in that game, he simply wasn't very efficient (two 9 pitch at bats, one 8 pitch at bat, four 7 pitch at bats). Kevin Kennedy was managing Boston by this time.
Clemens had another five games in which he threw 150-159 pitches, and another 15 games in which he threw 140-149 pitches. All of these games came while he was wearing a Red Sox uniform. As you can see, he topped 140 pitches three times as a Blue Jay. He never threw that many while pitching for either New York or Houston - the highest post Blue Jay total total I found was 138, in his 15 K one hitter against Seattle for the Yankees in the 2000 ALCS.
