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Pitchers! Pitchers! Get Your Pitchers Here!

Drew Hutchison and Noah Syndergaard made impressive debuts at higher levels, adding to what Nestor Molina had done on Tuesday. Even Kyle Drabek had a decent start.

Las Vegas 10 Salt Lake 1

The Kyle Drabek watch was on for this game. After three innings, he had thrown 43 pitches, a good number, and 31 were for strikes, again a good number. Through five the numbers were 85, getting a little high, and 53 strikes. With my super subtraction skills we can figure out that in the fourth and fifth innings Drabek threw 42 pitches, 22 for strikes. Those innings were not as good as the first three. Drabek left after 6.2 innings having thrown 111 pitches, 68 for strikes. So again subtracting, in the sixth and seventh Drabek threw 26 pitches, 15 for strikes. In all, from a control perspective, Drabek did OK with a little rough patch in the middle innings. From a results perspective Drabek gave up 8 hits and three walks, with just 2 K's. It was better, just not major league worthy.

Las Vegas scored a run in the third on three singles and five in the fourth, highlighted by a three run home run from Ryan Shealy. Jason Lane was on fire Wednesday going 4-5 and he tripled in another run in the sixth. Five of the 51's had two hits including Adeiny Hechavarria.

Trenton 3 New Hampshire 16

Drew Hutchison had no problem with his first AA start. Hutchison has excellent control so it was no surprise that he threw 75% first pitch strikes (per Kevin Gray). Hutchison went the standard five innings, shutout Trenton over that span on two hits while racking up seven K's.

Offensively Travis d'Arnaud and Danny Perales went back to back with solo home runs in the second inning. In the third an error and two walks loaded the bases for Moises Sierra to drive in two and Yan Gomes two more. Anthony Gose tripled in the seventh run in the fourth inning. New Hampshire built an 8-0 lead, BJ LaMura gave back three runs in the eighth before the Fisher Cats piled on eight more runs in the bottom of the eighth. Jon Diaz and Anthony Gose each had two hits in that inning.

In the game Gose had three hits, Sobolewski zero, and every other starter had two hits.

Lakeland at Dunedin - Rained out

Dunedin will play a doubleheader today.

Bowling Green 1 Lansing 4

Noah Syndergaard pitched the standard five innings and four of them were very routine. The second innng was where Noah had a challenge and where he gave up his only run. Syndergaard allowed three hits and a walk in that inning and did well to escape with just one run conceded. Syndergaard's final line was 5 4 1 1 1 6.

Dustn Antolin and Dan Webb each pitched two shutout innings in relief.

Lansing scored all their runs in the sixth inning. With the bases loaded on two walks and a single, Marcus Brisker singled in two runs and Matt Nuzzo doubled in two more.

Jake Marisnick and Oliver Dominguez had two hits each.

Tri-City 3 Vancouver 4

Vancouver built a 4-0 lead before giving up three runs in the sixth and hanging on for the one run win. In the second inning Steve McQuail homered and the Canadians used a couple of singles, and error and two ground outs to add two more. Vancouver made it 4-0 in the fourth on an RBI single by Shane Opitz.

Blake McFarland started and pitched well until the sixth. In what might be described as a learning experience the first five hitters of the inning reached base and with no-one out the score was 4-3 with runners on second and third. But McFarland managed to get out of the inning without further damage. Kramer Champlin pitched two shutout innings and Drew Permison left the tying run on third to end the game.

McQuail and Andy Burns had two hits each.

Bluefield 5 Greeneville 2

Bluefield scored three runs before Greeneville came to bat, Andy Fermin singled in the frst run and Art Charles doubled in two more. Leo Hernandez drove in two more runs in the sixth.

Ajay Meyer started for Bluefield and he pitched 5.2 innings, giving up one run while recording seven K's.

Kevin Pillar again led the hitters with 2 hits, he is now hitting .347. Eric Arce had his first hit, a single, above the GCL level.

GCL Braves 4 GCL Jays 2

Tucker Jensen gave up all four runs, just two earned, and took the loss. The Jays outhit the Braves 10-6 with Jacob Anderson recording three more hits. Over his last six games Anderson is hitting 500 with just 2 strikeouts in 24 at-bats. Anderson is probably too new to pro-ball to be promoted to Bluefield unless the Jays want to get him some playoff experience.

Three Stars:

Honorable mention: Kevin Pillar, Jacob Anderson, Ajay Meyer, Blake McFarland

3rd star: Jason Lane

2nd star: Noah Syndergaard

1st star: Drew Hutchison

Note:

The Appy leagues named their all-stars. Chris Hawkins, Art Charles and Kevin Pillar made the squad from your Bluefield Jays.

Posted by Gerry on Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 09:55 AM EDT.

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John Northey - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#242235) #

Boy, will it be hard for those ranking Jays talent to determine a top 10/20/30 this year. But at least it will be for a good reason.

As I said in another thread - it will be getting very crowded on the 40 man roster soon. AA had 9 1st rounders in the past 2 years and could have 7-9 this year (the Jays record is 5). That means in 4 years you'll have up to 18 first round picks fighting for spots on that 40 man mixed in with the 25 man roster and other prospects from later rounds. Have to think a few 3-6 prospects for 1 star prospect/major leaguer trades are coming ala what Ash tried to do back in the 90's (Cubillan & Michael Young for he who shall not be named; Peter Tucci, Carlos Almanzar and Woody Williams for Joey Hamilton; Tom Davey and Steve Sinclair for David Segui; and the big one Brandon Cromer, Jose Pett, Jose Silva, Mike Halperin, Abraham Nunez & Craig Wilson for Carlos Garcia, Orlando Merced & Dan Plesac among other trades). That last one was in part due to a roster crunch (6 for 3) in which only one really developed (Silva & Nunez had ML careers, but not great ones, Wilson a few solid seasons and a great 1/2 season as a rookie).

I hope AA, when the time comes, will be able to do a 6 for 1 swap or something for a real star ala the up to 8 for 5 deal that got us Rasmus/Tallet/Miller/Walters/Teahen (all but Rasmus release candidates) for Frasor/Stewart/Dotel/Patterson/Rzepczynski/3 to be named or cash.

Lylemcr - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#242236) #

To all current Blue Jays pitchers: Yes, that is footsteps you hear behind you.

China fan - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#242237) #

The New Hampshire rotation this year has been absolutely remarkable in terms of its major-league potential (Hutchison, Molina, McGuire, Jenkins) and its harvest of very recent graduates to the major leagues (Carreno, Alvarez, Stewart) and its fascinating personal drama (McGowan). Anyone with season tickets in New Hampshire has been a very lucky fan this year.

To me the most amazing thing is that the two first-round draft picks in the NH rotation (McGuire and Jenkins) are being totally overshadowed by two other pitchers who were almost unheralded a couple years ago. Hutchison is a 15th-round draft pick and Molina is a converted infielder. Yet they are outperforming the first-round picks. And that's despite the fact that McGuire and Jenkins are both doing fine and could graduate to the majors within a year or two. Yet they now actually appear to be the lesser of the four prospects in the current rotation.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#242238) #

Is it just me, or have Jay pitchers (both at the major and minor league levels) been quite healthy this year and last one as well? If I am right, that would reflect very well on the development staff. I have no idea whether that is due to training methods, pitch or innings counts, or something else, but as Mendelson Joe said, it aint the schmaltz, it's the results.

John Northey - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#242239) #

Never forget, one of the top 3 or 4 pitchers ever to play in Toronto (Halladay, Clemens have to be #1/2) was drafted as an outfielder in the 5th round (110 PA in his first minor league season, 2 more PA in the majors and 1 in the All-Star game).

Marc Hulet - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#242242) #

greenfrog - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#242243) #

I'm guessing that AA's next stealth target is a front-rotation starter. To me, acquiring a #1 or 2 would be like upgrading from the 1983/84 Jays to the 1985 version. This may be the toughest test so far for our intrepid GM. Personally, my dream acquisition would be Clayton Kershaw (cheap, controllable, awesome, the next perennial Cy Young candidate in the NL). I know, I know, he's basically 99.9% untouchable. But we have all these surplus prospects banging down the door. Gotta do something with them, right? And since when did 0.1% odds stop AA from picking up the phone?

Beyonder - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#242248) #

Shouldn't we find out shortly who the PTBNs are in the Rasmus deal? I've wondered about who these players might be since the deal went down, and while the popular consensus seems to be that we will only lose middling prospects, I haven't heard anything solid on that front. Slightly worried that the Rasmus deal may go the way of the Wells deal, where at first it seemed like AA had pulled off a complete robbery by getting the Angels to take on the entirety of the contract, only to find out days later that the Jays had agreed to pay a good chunk of it. Of course, it was still a great deal (especially in light of VW's production this year), but it wasn't quite the steal we had thought at first.

My views on the Rasmus "robbery" could change significantly if I discovered even one of the PTBNs were any of Molina, Hutchinson, Nicolina, et al..

Mike Green - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#242250) #

Since striking out in his first 3 pro at-bats on August 9, Anderson has been doing everything right. We shouldn't be shocked that an 18 year old first-round pick dominates Rookie League, but it is a good sign and a welcome change from the high-school position drafts of a few years ago. He could spend another year in short-season ball or make the jump to Lansing next year if the club was so inclined.

greenfrog - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#242251) #

Highly unlikely. As for Molina, AA said that other teams were calling about him at the deadline, but that they decided he was too promising to give up (I think Dana Brown or whoever went down to see him said something like, "I would be very afraid of giving this guy up"). So Nestor is still in the fold.

sam - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#242252) #

Now this may be a reach here, but Anderson reminds me very much of a certain Mike Stanton.

greenfrog - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#242253) #

"Highly unlikely" being directed at Beyonder's fears about the PTBNLs, not at Mike's comment.

Beyonder - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#242254) #

I note that Detroit's PTBN in the Fister deal was a first rounder (sandwich) from 2010 (Chance Ruffin), so its not always the case that PTBNs are low level guys.

Gerry - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#242255) #

The Jays have been on a good run in keeping pitchers healthy. Obviously Dyson and Farina had TJ surgery, as did Dustin Antolin last year, and Andrew Leibel has missed a lot of time. But the Jays bigger names have been relatively healthy. What is unknown is whether this is an industry wide trend or a Blue Jay one.

One of the theories about the lower offensive environment in MLB is that young pitchers are healthier and having a bigger impact at the major league level. I don't think this has been proved but anecdotally it seems as though the industry is doing a better job keeping pitchers away from surgery (Baltimore excepted).

braden - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#242256) #

I believe Ruffin was only a PTBNL because he couldn't be traded until a year after he signed (8/16/10). Pomeranz was a PTBNL officially as well in the Jimenez deal.

The "or cash" bit is what leads me to believe it's not much to worry about. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's somehow tied to whatever compensation picks the Cardinals receive for Dotel and/or Jackson.

braden - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#242257) #

at first it seemed like AA had pulled off a complete robbery by getting the Angels to take on the entirety of the contract, only to find out days later that the Jays had agreed to pay a good chunk of it.

Didn't the Jays only fork over $5MM. If so, that's hardly a 'good chunk' of $86MM.

Beyonder - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#242259) #

You're right Braden. My "good chunk" description is unfair.

John Northey - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#242262) #

AA seems to go after good teams who just can't wait for a player to get back to their old form. Escobar, Rasmus, and Johnson all fit that. He also though goes for guys teams are just sick of waiting for regardless of record such as Morrow.

Kershaw is on a troubled team, but unless LA decides to do a full rebuild and wants a stack of prospects I just can't see it, even if the Jays take away some of their ugly contracts (Lilly owed $22.5 mil over the next 2 years with an 81 ERA+ this year for example - his no trade clause would force a double trade most likely, with the Jays having him on paper only before sending him back out west).

Chad Billingsley is a more likely target from LA. $35 mil over the next 3 with an option for 2015 (his age 30 season). After a 130+ ERA+ in 2007-2008 he has a 99 ERA+ over the past 3 seasons (91 this year). So controllable, potential to be a front of rotation guy if you can figure out why he hasn't had the results (BB/9 higher than ideal but K/9 and HR/9 solid - he should be better, his FIP for the past 3 years was better than his ERA) then he could be a bargain. FanGraphs (WAR based on FIP) has him at 2-4 WAR a year vs Baseball-Reference (WAR based on ERA) at 1-2.6 WAR. FanGraphs lists him as a $10-20 mil a year pitcher (same range as Romero & Morrow) which puts his dollar value and contract in-line with each other.

Kershaw is at the $20-$25 million level btw while Halladay is $30+ in 3 of the past 4 years ($26 the other). CC Sabathia is high 20's/low 30's 4 of the past 5 years ($20 the other).

92-93 - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#242266) #

If you want Kershaw, take whatever package you were willing to give up for Felix and keep adding pieces. They're both under control through 2014 but Kershaw is younger and will cost significantly less through arbitration than Felix's 3/60.

John Northey - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#242268) #

Agreed 92-93. Kershaw is a nice dream, but so is King Felix and a batch of other guys. If AA could steal him from LA without costing any key pieces (Escobar, Lawrie, Romero, Morrow, various top prospects) then he deserves GM of the decade (already earned GM of the year for the Wells deal).

John Northey - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#242269) #

FYI: on the Wells watch - sOPS+ (OPS+ vs league for the month) for August is just 44. Out of the 5 months of the year he has as many sub-50's as above 100's - 2 each (unless he heats up over the next few days). Ouch. So much for his heating up and getting back to normal.

I'd say Wells contract, viewed as untradeable before the trade is now into the 'needs an act of God' territory to be taken off the Angels books.

greenfrog - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#242271) #

Kershaw is more of a pie-in-the-sky dream than anything. #1 starters are almost impossible to acquire, let alone 23-year-old, up-and-coming, dominant lefties with big arms and fabulous numbers. But once in a blue moon, GMs do inexplicably dumb things (cf. Tony Reagins and the Wells deal). IMO there is no downside to AA's sidling up to Ned Colletti and saying, gosh, we have this farm system that is overflowing with payroll-reducing blue chip talent, and for the life of me, I can't figure out what to do with it all...

JustinD - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#242273) #

As for a trade for pitching, I'm thinking we might match up well with the Giants. They have no offense and we could offer a Thames, Snider, Encarnacion for one of their pitchers.

Obviously I don't think any GM would trade Matt Cain for Encarnacion, but it is AA, and it is Brian Sabean...

TamRa - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#242280) #

I keep a running Top 100 prospect list for the club and it is very, very hard to make decisions on some of the arms... there is definitely an impressive amount of talent - especially a ton of arms that have the potent to absolutely explode in 2012 like the group that exploded in 2011 (Molina, Hutchison, Nicolino and Syndergaard).

I do too, thou obviously I'm just hacking it based on the actual work done by folks like yourself, and from this distance it looks like you could take the top 10 guys or so (If you include Norris and Comer) and put them in almost any order and not be out of line...
and then you could take another 8-10 pitchers who are legitimate potential big leaguers who are themselves kinda hard to order.

When I make a list I pretty much just go on hunches based on very subtle comments I pick up from those who've made first hand observations. But do I (or you) have any real clue if Sanchez will be a better finished product than Syndergaard, or either than Nicolino? I don't see how.

Looks like a crap shoot. In a good way.

Shaker - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#242289) #

re the Wells deal...did we ever get confirmation that we paid $5M cash to the Halos or did we simply take on Rivera's $5M salary*?

The deal was initially announced as Napoli for Wells, then Napoli minus $5M, then may have ended as Napoli + Rivera.

* now being gratefully paid by the Dodgers

Shaker - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#242291) #

If Beane joins the Cubs as GM, he might be amenable to a Garza for top prospects type of deal.

Marc Hulet - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#242292) #

Garza is not a top line starter, though.

TamRa - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#242295) #

I note that Detroit's PTBN in the Fister deal was a first rounder (sandwich) from 2010 (Chance Ruffin), so its not always the case that PTBNs are low level guys.

All the major reporting after the deal said "not one of the Jays better prospects"

I would be just fine if it were Jenkins and it's unlikely to be anyone even that good.

My guess would be someone along the lines of say Ryan Goins. for example.

uglyone - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#242296) #

I try to keep track of a loose top-20/30 list every month or so, but this year it's fricken impossible.

I've had to resort to keeping pitchers and position player separate, but even then it's damn hard to rank them.

Right now I've got something like this (but it changes quick):

Pitchers:

1) Alvarez
2) Hutchison
3) McGuire
4) Molina
5) Syndergaard
6) Nicolino
7) Norris
8) Carreno
9) Jenkins
10) Wojciechowski
11-15) 5 of Sanchez/Cardona/Musgrove/Taylor/Jaye/Murphy/Comer

Position players:

1) D'Arnaud
2) Gose
3) Marisnick
4) Cooper
5) Jimenez
6) Crouse
7) Sierra
8) Hechevarria
9) Knecht
10) Perez
11-15) 5 of McDade/Anderson/Thon/Pompey/Arce/Hawkins/Smith

uglyone - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#242299) #

A.Lind

J.Arencibia

1 of T.Snider/E.Thames/D.Cooper/M.Sierra/M.McDade

1 of K.Drabek/H.Alvarez/D.Hutchison/D.McGuire/N.Molina

Beyonder - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#242302) #

Hey Tamra. I read that reporting also, although it didn't seem to be based on anything other than the general perception that PTBNs are not usually top prospects. AA didn't say anything to that effect. The Rasmus deal just seemed so unbalanced that my initial reaction was that something more must be involved than minor league cannon fodder. I still wonder, and hope you are right. .

Mike Green - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#242305) #

Those lists are reasonable, uglyone. I would probably have Molina ahead of McGuire at this stage, and I definitely would have Knecht ahead of Crouse. I guess that you are treating Drabek as having lost his prospect eligibility. It's that time of year when the BB crew will soon be making their lists and checking them twice. It isn't getting any easier.

As for the trade suggestions, I would not be inclined to trade both Lind and Cooper unless another first baseman was acquired in some other way before.

uglyone - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#242309) #

Yeah, that would be the trade i would make AFTER we sign Fielder, of course.

as for Crouse-Knecht....that's a close one for sure. Knecht is all polish while Crouse is all raw tools. That being said, Crouse is younger than Knecht and hitting not much worse than him at the same level (and his offensive value is very similar overall when you factor in his speed on the basepaths), and apparently he's got a significant defensive edge too.

I could go either way on that matchup, but I really like Crouse's true 5-tool uspside and his significant improvement this year.

M.Knecht (21.3): 481pa, 12.5bb%, 23.5k%, .285avg, .353babip, .385obp, .211iso, 0.03sb/g, 50.0sb%, .395woba, 148wRC+
M.Crouse (20.8): 405pa, 9.6bb%, 26.7k%, .266avg, .343babip, .351obp, .212iso, 0.39sb/g, 82.2sb%, .387woba, 142wRC+

Knecht is a better contact hitter, both of them show plenty of power, while Crouse adds what looks to be top-notch base-stealing ability as well. Knecht has the edge in strike zone control but not a huge one I don't think. Reports seem to indicate that Crouse is a better fielder as well.

Crouse is slightly behind Knecht's performance at the plate right now, but I think his upside wins out for me, especially if Knecht is limited to a 1B/DH role going forward.

Very close call, though. I could go either way.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#242312) #

Knecht can definitely be a good defensive left-fielder. He has decent speed, a pretty good arm and enough defensive instinct that he played some centerfield for Auburn last year. My opinion about Knecht's defensive capabilities is, I believe, shared by Lugnut Fan, who has seen him regularly this year.

92-93 - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#242320) #

I like the lists uglyone, I have been trying to do something similar and have been finding it rather difficult. I struggle most with the upside vs. probability question, and in the Jays current situation (with most of the MLB positions filled) I prefer to rank it from ceiling on down. I'd probably rank Marisnick over Gose and have Sierra/Cooper/Crouse out of the positional top 10, and I'd be doing similar things with the pitching list.

What's pretty clear is that the system is ridiculously strong and deep even having recently graduated Lawrie, Snider, and Drabek from prospect status.

Shaker - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#242332) #

I dunno Marc. I'm not pretending Garza is a #1 starter. He's somewhere between a #2 and #3 though.

He has a 110 ERA+ this year and has been >110+ in 4 of the last 5 years (including this season). His last year in T Bay wasn't great, but he's certainly above average. Not as good as say Marcum or Buerhle but better than Edwin Jackson, Ted Lilly or AJ Burnett. Billingsley might be a reasonable comp.

He's 13th in DIPS in mlb this year, if you're into that sort of thang. By thang I mean data mining.

I would love a better start than Garza but don't think the Kershaw or King Felix talk is realistic.

Landomar - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#242345) #

I would try hard to trade for Joey Votto. I like him a lot more than Prince Fielder (perhaps for no good reason, but still).

Perhaps they would be interested in something like:

Morrow or Cecil
Snider
Hechevarria
McGuire

We could then try to trade a Lind + prospects package for Matt Cain, or someone like that, which would be an upgrade on whichever pitcher we lose. For our rotation, I would be happy with Romero, Cain (or another good SP), Cecil/Morrow, and 2 open spots (McGowan, Drabek, Alvarez, +likely temporary guys such as Perez or Villanueva could battle it out in the spring).

I would be very excited to send out Escobar, Rasmus, Bautista, Votto, Lawrie, Thames, Encarnacion, Johnson, and Arencibia next season. That group looks beautiful to me.

Gerry - Thursday, August 25 2011 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#242349) #

Joe Musgrove and Tucker Jensen being sent to Bluefield, getting ready for playoffs.

GCL season ends on Saturday so they might not be due to pitch again in the GCL.

Waveburner - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 12:24 AM EDT (#242360) #

Does anyone know why Zak Adams is on the 60-day DL? Arm injury, or something a little less toxic for pitchers?

Lugnut Fan - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 07:33 AM EDT (#242365) #

I agree with Mike in the rankings between Crouse and Knect. I would probably rank Knecht about Crouse at this point. Knecht is a very good defensive LF and off the top of my head, I think he is pretty close to leading the team in outfield assists (I didn't look at the stats before typing this). Crouse would have the better range and better speed, Knecht I think will have better power and I believe will hit for a slightly higher average as he does seem to have better control of the strike zone and also seems to have pretty good pitch recognition at the plate.

The interesting thing is that if you were to merge the talents of the two, you would get Jake Marisnick. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either guy.

DaveB - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 09:01 AM EDT (#242369) #

Lugnut Fan, any observations or info about Nicolino's ML debut?

Krylian19 - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#242370) #

Waveburner...

From what I understand Zak Adams has an elboe strain. Nothing requiring surgery, but they decided to shut him down for the season as a precaution. I believe placing him on the 60-Day DL allowed them to add another player to the roster.

John Northey - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#242371) #

Checking assists in Lansing for outfielders...
1) Crouse 13
2) Brisker 7
3) Knecht 6
4) Marisnick 5

For comparison, no one in Lansing had 8 last year.

Dunedin (A+) leaders...
1) McElroy 8
2) Justin Jackson 3 (8 total over all levels)

New Hampshire (AA) leaders...
1) Gose 12
2) Sierra 11
3) Justin Jackson 4 (8 total over all levels)

Las Vegas (AAA) leaders...
1) Loewen 9 (ex-pitcher has a good arm, shocking)
2) Mastroianni 5 (8 over all levels)
3) Thames 4 (6 including major leagues)

Blue Jays leaders...
1) Bautista 9 (just 87 games)
2) Snider 4 (7 over all levels)
3) Patterson 3 (4 including St Louis)

Of note: Jesse Barfield (one of the best arms all-time, not just among Blue Jays) was in the low 20's for assists 3 times.

Mike Green - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#242374) #

It is pretty clear from research done by John Walsh that Jesse Barfield saved the most runs with his arm over his career in major league history. It was surprising that he saved more runs despite having a shorter career than Clemente, but the seasonal differences were large. Jesse was a great, great player at his peak from 1985 to 1987.

bpoz - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#242376) #

LF, Thanks for the analysis of Syndergaard's pitching. He & Alvarez throw in the high 90s and Hutchison gets to 95 I believe.
I would like input in comparing them and maybe even projecting their 2012.

Here is my take. They all have good heat.

Hutch has more variety of pitches. In Gerry's interviews with & about Hutch, it was clearly established that Hutch is a smart pitcher who knows how to pitch with a plan. He also has a lot of confidence in his non FB pitches. His success has been tremendous, with long stretches of 0 ERs. I think he can have success in the Majors next year, if he gets an opportunity. He will have an innings limit and any promotion will depend on how his competition at NH is doing...ie there could be a line up.

Hope I am correct in saying that Alvarez & Syndergaad rely very much on their great FBs and as a result their other pitches are a bit weak. I understand staying with what you have success with until it fails you. Alvarez says he pitches to contact, whereas Syndergaard may be trying something different. Last year the 95mph FB in the FSL did not produce as good results as the 99mph FB in the EL did.
Alvarez gets a good test tonight, especially if Shields can dominate.

uglyone - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#242377) #

I have zero issues with that evaluation, lugnutsfan, and i could go either way with these two.

defensively speaking, though, from what i read, and based on his speed, arm, and general athleticism, Crouse should probably be considered a CF prospect, not a corner outfielder. in fact, he may actually deserve to be in CF more than marisnick does. i see a Rios type skillset and upside with Crouse, though hopefully with a better work ethic and a tougher mental approach.

meanwhile leftfield is apparently the toughest defenaive position knecht will likely ever be able to handle. and maybe because i'm racist against white athletes i don't see his current mobiloty holding up as his body matures. i see Lind with maybe more patience when i look at knecht's upside.

Mike Green - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#242383) #

Lind with more patience and good defence in left field = Brian Downing. That's very good.

Downing's career path is a useful reminder about the difficulty inherent in catching. Downing had been a decent catcher in his 20s, but missed a lot of time and reached 550 PAs in a season only once and his career high in homers was 12. He was moved to left-field at age 30 during the strike-year 1981. From age 31 to 38, he was over 600 PAs and hit 20 homers six times. When one is thinking about Travis d'Arnaud or Carlos Perez, Downing's example is one to keep in mind.

uglyone - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#242400) #

yup. Lind with more patience is a stud, as is Rios with a better work ethic. Of course, those are both pie-in-the-sky max upside comparisons in my mind.

Mike Green - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#242402) #

Crouse is fast, but he's a lot bigger than Rios and he is a right-fielder at age 20. If he develops as one dreams, I see him more as a Winfield type. I see it as much more likely that Knecht will become something like Brian Downing than Crouse becomes something like Dave Winfield.

Gerry - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#242408) #

The one thing I don't agree with here is that Crouse is a better CF than Marisnick. They are both fast and both can play the position, the difference I have seen is that Marisnick is smooth and in control, Crouse is bigger than Jake and looks like he has to try harder to play the position.

I am sure Chad has an opinion on this.

uglyone - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#242409) #

Yeah, I wouldn't mind hearing a firsthand opinion on that, because I've never seen the two directly compared fielding-wise.

Though even if Marisnick is better, which he may well be, I still think Crouse at the moment could easily be considered a CF prospect, not just a corner outfielder.

Lugnut Fan - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#242415) #

Crouse could probably play center and at times has in Lansing. His speed alone lets him cover more ground. The difference I see between Crouse and Marisnick is that I think Jake gets a better read of the ball off the bat that allows him to be in the proper position which is part of Gerry's observation from the time that he observed the two in Lansing. Crouse seems to get a little bit later of a jump on the ball. Marisnick just plain has better baseball instincts at this moment in time which shows up both offensively and defensively, although Crouse is no slouch. Crouse is the better athlete of the two in my opinion which allows him to make up for some of what he is lacking instinctually.

My dad job got in the way of my attending Nicholino's outing in Lansing last night, so I don't have a report on those. As far as Syndergaard and Hutchinson, both do have very good fastballs, but I think they are very different pitchers. From what I saw of Hutchinson in the first half, he has good sinking action on his fastball when he is going right. He was very much going after the strike out early in the season in Lansing, but I think he is more of a pitch to contact type of guy to be honest. Syndergaard is your protypical Texas pitcher. He is big, strong and throws the ball extremely hard. In his outing the other night, I don't think pitch to contact came across his mind, that kid was going for the strike out. His change up and curve ball looked pretty good to me. He had very good action on his fastball, but I don't think he has the confidence in his off speed stuff (Just my observation). Over five innings, he may have thrown 10 or 12 change up / curve balls and everything else was the four seamer. As he progresses, he is going to have to throw the offspeed stuff more. You can get away with a high 90's fastball in the lower minors, but if that is all you feature at the upper levels, you're going to get hit.

Mylegacy - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#242423) #

Lugnut Fan - just wanted to say - again (but not often enough) - how much I enjoy your observations and your interpretations of those observations. Well done, and many thanks!

Mylegacy - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#242427) #

On the Marisnick - Crouse comparisons. When ever I've seen a picture of the two together it looks like Crouse and Son. Crouse is a very big friggin' guy! For his size he's an absolute rocket. I still think - remember he's only 20! - his POSSIBLE upside is scary. Winfield? Ya. I almost see Bo Jackson - OK I know that's a bit over the top.

Because of his "rough edges" I'm inclined to promote Knecht and Marisnick and keep Crouse back. If we did that I expect that by June(ish) he'd be destroying Low A and go up to Hi A where he'd challenge Knecht and Marisnick in all aspects of the game.

AND - I absolutely LOVE Marisnick and Knecht. In a way having the three of them somewhat diminishes how people feel about them as individuals. I suspect if only one of them was in the system we'd be drooling over him. The three are almost an embarrassment of riches.

Ryan Day - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#242458) #

Interesting to note BA's opinions on Hutchison and Molina recently:

Hutchison: Hutchison's pure stuff grades out mostly around average, but he's athletic, throws strikes and has an advanced idea of how to pitch.
Molina: Not sure you'd call any of his offerings a plus pitch, but he mixes them well and moves the ball around the strike zone. Not the sexiest scouting report, but that's the type of guy who winds up in the big leagues.

They're interesting observations, as BA usually loves guys like Syndergaard who have fantastic stuff but don't always know what to do with it (not that Syndergaard has had problems yet, but you get the idea).

uglyone - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#242461) #

Thanks LF, you're awesome.

hypobole - Friday, August 26 2011 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#242464) #

I almost see Bo Jackson - OK I know that's a bit over the top.

No, Mylegacy, Jackson is a perfectly reasonable comp. it's about time you showed a little enthusiasm for one of our prospects.

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