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The affiliates were 6-1 Tuesday night with the only blemishes being a rainout and a come from ahead loss.


Reno 7 Las Vegas 3



Travis Snider
accounted for Las Vegas' third run with his 9th homer of the season on Tuesday.

Reno, NV
- Could this be the end of the line for 49 year-old Jamie Moyer (1-1)? The 51s gave him a 3-0 lead against the Diamondbacks affiliates but it disappeared in the fifth.  He allowed all seven runs on ten hits and two walks over six frames.  One of the hits was a three-run homer by Cole Gillespie.  He struck out three and eight of his 14 outs in play were on the ground.  Jim Hoey closed things out with two shutout frames of one-hit ball.  He struck out one and got four outs on the ground.

Adeiny Hechavarria
tripled home a Jonathan Diaz walk and scored on a David Cooper sacrifice fly in the third.  Travis Snider ended the inning with a bang by homering to right for his 9th tater with the 51s.  Eric Thames tripled and walked and Mike McCoy singled and walked.  Diaz was hitless but drew a pair of bases on balls.  Yan Gomes singled and stole a base.  Anthony Gose doubled but was picked off at second base by Barry Enright. Moises Sierra was 0-for-3 with a walk and Cooper also finished 0-for-3.  Defensively, Sierra threw out a runner at second.


New Hampshire 14 Reading 2

Reading, PA - The Fisher Cats unleashed an 18-hit attack on the Phillies and only failed to score in the fifth, sixth and ninth innings.  Brad Glenn got the ball rolling with an RBI double in the first, a Brian Bocock two-run single capped off a three-run second and Kenen Bailli blasted a two-run homer in the third.  Glenn smashed one over the wall for a two-run shot in the fourth and belted a solo dinger in the seventh before getting another RBI on a fielder's choice grounder in the eighth.  Kevin Howard followed with a two-run single and Joel Galarraga chipped in with an RBI single.  Glenn, Galarraga, Bocock and Brian Van Kirk supplied two-thirds of the team's hit total with three apiece.  Glenn, Bocock, Van Kirk and Galarraga reached base four times each.  Glenn was hit by a pitch while the other three walked.  Bocock and Van Kirk had doubles and Bocock also squeezed in a stolen base.  Bailli had the other multi-hit effort by adding a base hit to go along with his homer.  Mike McDade doubled and walked and John Tolisano had a single in six at-bats to make sure every Fisher Cat was represented in the hit column.

Yohan Pino (5-3) limited Reading to two runs on three hits and a walk for the win. He rung up a pair of Ks and induced nine groundball outs over his six innings.  The bullpen locked it down with three perfect innings, one each from Stephen Marek, lefty Aaron Loup and Sam "Iron Mike" Dyson.  Dyson's two strikeouts bettered Marek's and Loup's totals by one.


Dunedin 10 Tampa 6

Dunedin, FL - Dunedin grabbed a 6-0 lead and held on to it this time.  Ryan Schimpf got it started with a solo homer in the first for his 11th of the campaign.  Kevin Ahrens singled home a run in the second and Justin Jackson drove home two with a triple.  A three-bagger by Oliver Dominguez made it 5-0 in the third and he doubled home two more in the fifth.  A Schimpf sac fly in the seventh and a two-run homer by Jon Talley in the ninth rounded out the scoring. Dominguez led the attack with three hits on two doubles and a triple while Schimpf homered, tripled and walked.  Jackson had a double to go along with his triple.  Talley drew a walk in addition to his homer while Marcus Knecht and Pierce Rankin both singled and walked.  Jake Marisnick was 1-for-5 but Michael Crouse was 0-for-4 with three Ks.

Marcus Walden (1-1) lasted five innings and allowed a pair of runs on four hits, three walks and a hit by pitch.  He rang up five strikeouts and accumulated eight outs on the ground.  Dustin Antolin had a scoreless sixth inning despite a pair of hits.  Lefty Boomer Potts was victimized by an inside the park homer in the seventh and allowed two more Yankee runs in 1 1/3 innings.  He gave up three hits but punched out four without a walk.  Evan Englebrook could not strand the two Potts runners and could not get any outs over the three batters he faced on two hits and a walk.  Danny Barnes came to the rescue by stranding Englebrook's two runners and getting the final five outs for his 20th save.  He yielded just one hit while collecting a pair of strikeouts.


Lansing 11 South Bend 3

South Bend, IN - Scoreless after three, the Lugnuts busted out for five runs in the fourth against the D-Backs affiliate. K.C. Hobson got the first run on the board with a sacrifice fly but the big blast came off the bat of Kevin Patterson, who connected for a three-run dinger, his ninth of 2012.  The Lugnuts scored once in the fifth without a hit as Andy Burns reached on a throwing error by the third baseman, stole second and third (to give him 14), then trotted home on another throwing error by the catcher.  Lansing only needed one hit to score in the sixth and that came courtesy of Gustavo Pierre, who put his second ball of the year over the fence.  Lansing put this one well out of reach with four runs in the ninth, thanks to Kevin Pillar, who belted a three-run shot for number five on the campaign.  Patterson had a 4-for-5 night at the plate.  Pierre, Pillar and Jonathon Berti had a pair of hits each.   Andy Burns was 0-for-3 and made two errors at short but walked twice.  Hobson and Chris Hawkins each hit a double.  Kenny Wilson singled and stole his 27th stolen base of the year.  Aaron Munoz drew a walk.

The beneficiary of all the offence was Noah Syndergaard, who improved to 5-2 with five innings of one-run, three-hit ball.  He got six strikeouts, six groundouts and walked nobody.  Kramer Champlin yielded two runs, including a homer, on three hits over two frames.  He had a 2-0 K/BB total and a 4-0 groundball/flyball ratio.  Brandon Berl survived two hits and struck out one over a scoreless eighth inning and Philip Brua closed the door with a perfect ninth.


Vancouver 4 Salem-Keizer 3


Nick Baligod delivered the tying and winning runs with a two-run double in the third inning Tuesday.

Vancouver, BC - The C's hung on to salvage the finale of this three game set against the Giants affiliate, who made five errors in this one.  A Dan Klein sacrifice fly and a Matt NewmanRBI groundout resulted in the first two runs of the game in the second inning.  The Volcanoes erupted for three runs a half-inning later but Vancouver got them back in the bottom of the third thanks to a two-run double by Nick Baligod.  Baligod and Jordan Leyland each had doubles and two-hit games with Leyland also drawing a walk.  Kellen Sweeney doubled and walked and Daniel Arcila added another two-bagger.  Balbino Fuenmayor was 1-for-4 and Klein was 0-for-2 with an intentional walk.  The top of the order, Ian Parmley and Jorge Flores, were a combined 0-for-9, while Newman was 0-for-4.

Ben White (2-2) survived a shaky third inning and put together a quality start of three-run, six-inning ball.  He gave up a two-run homer that tied the game and loaded the bases before giving up a third run on a sac fly.  He settled down by retiring the next six hitters and 10 of his final 12, picking off a runner at first in the process.  In total, he had eight baserunners on three hits, four walks and a hit batsman but struck out six with five groundouts.  Andrew Sikula pitched a one-hit seventh, Ian Kadish worked a one-walk eight and Drew Permison stranded a two-out double by striking out the side in the ninth for save number three.


Pulaski @ Bluefield

Bluefield, WV
- Postponed due to rain.  The game will be made up as part of a doubleheader at Bowen Field August 20 at 7:05 pm ET.


GCL Blue Jays 4 GCL Yankees 3

Dunedin, FL - The Jays were down 2-0 early but responded with a run in the third.  Wuilmer Becerra was hit by a pitch and was replaced on the basepaths by Dennis Jones.  He moved up to second on a passed ball, stole third and scampered home on an error by the third baseman.  They scored three times to take the lead for good in the sixth as Cody Bartlett singled home a run and Jesus Gonzalez doubled home a pair.  D.J. Davis was the only Jay to get on base twice with a single and a walk.  He stole a base but was also caught once, making him 5-for-8.  Derrick Loveless doubled and Justin Atkinson, George Carroll and Dawel Lugo added singles.  Jorge Saez was 0-for-3 and Jones was 0-for-2.

Lefty Jairo Labourt got the start scattered two hits and a walk over two scoreless frames to go along with two strikeouts and two groundouts.  The Yankees got to southpaw Zak Wasilewski for two runs in the third but he kept the Bombers off the board in the fourth.  In total, he allowed two hits and two walks but struck out three.  The Yankees also got to lefty Alonzo Gonzalez for a run on three hits in one inning but he did get one K.  Left-hander Francesco Gracesqui (2-0) hurled two blank innings and giving up just one hit and racking up two strikeouts to earn the victory.  Chuck Ghysels, not a lefty, had an impressive two inning save by pitching one-hit ball while punching out four.


DSL Blue Jays 7 DSL Tigers 6

San Pedro de Macoris, DR - The Jays fought back from 5-3 and 6-5 deficits in the last two innings of regulation to pull it out.  They struck first in the first on a two-run single by Cesar Barazarte and a wild pitch in the fourth resulted in another run.  An RBI groundout by Rolando Segovia and an RBI single by Edwin Fuentes tied the game at 5-5 in the eighth.  Gustavo Perinen tied it at 6-6 in the ninth with a run-scoring single before the winning run scored on a balk, of all things!  Luis Martin had a 3-for-5 day at the plate while Barazarte, Fuentes and Perinen were in the two-hit club.  Segovia and Andres Sotillo had a single and a walk.  Juan Tejada was 0-for-4 with a walk but Juan Kelly was just 0-for-4.

On the mound, Francis Eduardo endured a rough start.  He allowed all five runs over 3 2/3 innings.  One of the runs was unearned but he allowed seven hits and two walks.  Eduardo struck out a pair and four of his six outs in play were on the grass.  Lefty Oscar Cabrera plunked a pair of Tigers but delivered 3 1/3 scoreless innings by scattering three hits and striking out two with four groundouts.  Miguel Castro (1-0) was nicked for an unearned run but worked his way around a hit and two walks over two frames for the win.


*** 3 Stars!!! ***



3. Ryan Schimpf, Dunedin

2. Noah Syndergaard, Lansing

1. Brad Glenn, New Hampshire

Perfect Night So Glenn Close! | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 07:01 AM EDT (#259769) #
BA has confirmed that the Jays have signed their #13 IFA Richard Urena (SS from the DR, age 16, 6'1", 160 lbs).

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-sign-no-13-international-prospect-richard-urena/
ramone - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#259771) #
I watched some of the 51's game on milb.tv last night, Moyer did pitch better than his line, he was let down by the defense, but still I don't want to see him pitch for the Jays.

Snider's home run was monster of a shot to RF, the announcer was in awe as well.

And just a personal preference, but it is an absolute joy to watch Hechavarria play short stop.
Jdog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#259774) #
I have been quietly following Ryan Schimpf. I know he is old for the FSL but he seems to have a good approach, with some pop, which when you play 2B gives you a chance.

2012 Ryan Schimpf 24 FSL .283/.364/.511

2005 Player A 24.5 FSL .287/.380/.506

Player A from the Jays system went on to play in the MLB

How is Schimpf's defence? I think he needs a promotion to NH
wacker - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#259776) #
There's quite a few guys that need and have earned promotions but for some reason the jays don't really seemed to challenge players. But they sure do hang on to players, and I won't or don't need to mention names that have no shot, that are creating logjams. Am I wrong?
whiterasta80 - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#259777) #
Is player A Brad Emaus?  Because that wouldn't exactly be a ringing endorsement.  Still, I'm willing to wait and see with him.
Hodgie - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#259778) #
the jays don't really seemed to challenge players.

Well, I don't think that the likes of Hutchison, Alvarez, Gose, Hechavarria, Syndergaard, Sanchez, Osuna et al. would agree with that statement. My impression is that most of the Jays legitimate prospects are consistently among the youngest players in their respective leagues. I actually can't think of one top prospect that needs the "old for his league" disclaimer attached off the top of my head.

ramone - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#259779) #
Enrique Rojas/ESPN ‏@Enrique_Rojas1
"July2 Venezuelan LH pitcher Jose Castillo sign with #Bluejays $800K"

So the Jays have to be over the $2.9 million cap now don't they?
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#259780) #

There is some thought, according to Ben Badler at BA, that the Jays got a good deal with Franklin Barreto, who was rumored to be getting $2 million. The Jays also signed a few other players from the same "trainer" so some deal may have been come to last year where the Jays in essence overpaid at that time with a 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' type of agreement.

 

There are quite a few ways to work around the bonus cap with the international market... that's just one example.

Hodgie - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#259781) #
Thanks Marc. So, if I am not mistaken the Jays have now signed the #1, #6, #9 and #13 ranked players from the July 2 IFA crop. Anthopoulos certainly makes amateur talent acquisition interesting for Jays fans.
Jdog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#259782) #
Player A = Ryan Roberts

Roberts was 7-8 months older when he put up that line in the FSL and was promoted after couple hundred at bats.

tercet - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#259783) #
Player A is Aaron Hill I think.  Ryan Schimpf was an absolute beast at LSU being one of the best bat's in college ball he hit 336/449/668 in 2009 when LSU won the college world series.  He might have just taken a while to get use to milb pitching.  He could be a legit replacement for Johnson rather then watch Hech ops ~500.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#259784) #
Interesting tidbit from Buster Olney's latest (insider-only) column. His source says that Toronto finished third in the Darvish bidding (behind Tex and the Cubs) and that no bid was within $35M of the winning bid. Can that be right? No other team bid more than $16M or so?
hypobole - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#259785) #
I'm no expert on the international market, but I do know the bonuses are split between the prospects and their trainers, who often get a healthy cut. If you can pay the trainer in a different way (put him on the team payroll, funding for his academy, etc) and have the player receive 100% of the bonus, the $2.9 million could be stretched a lot further than in the past.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#259787) #
The one "non-prospect" I've been following is Kevin Pillar in Lansing.

Old for his level at 23, but - 2nd in the league in hitting at .321/.393/.455. 14% K-rate. Also tied for the league lead in SB's with 31(5 CS). I don't know how good he is defensively, but he did win a Gold Glove in college.

Meanwhile, 1 level up are 22 yr old Marcus Knecht at .212/.307/.406 28% K-rate and 21 yr old Mike Crouse .203/.300/.316 30% K-rate.

I may have mentioned it before, but a player who followed a similar path (405 PA's as a 23 yr old in Low A, .290/.422/.469 12% K-rate, 14/16 SB) is Reed Johnson who has carved himself a fairly lengthy major league career.
smcs - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#259788) #
So the Jays have to be over the $2.9 million cap now don't they?

I haven't been following the signings religiously, so I'm not sure what dollar figures are being tossed around, but I'm pretty sure it's the same as the draft -- 75% tax on 5% overage. Plus, you can sign I think 5 guys to up to $500,000 and have it not against the cap. Plus, as many as you want below $5,000, I think it is.
wacker - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#259792) #
That's exactly what I'm talking about in regards to "nonprospect" pillar
sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#259793) #
Make that $50,000. The only way the Jays are not forfeiting a pick is as Marc says there's somethin going on underneath the table or Baretto got a real sweetheart deal. There might be something to the amount of money/prospects the Jays signed last year out of the Ciro Barrios academy. They may have overpaid on those guys with some of that money going to Barreto.
ramone - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#259794) #
Enrique Rojas/ESPN ‏@Enrique_Rojas1
"#July2 Franklin Barreto signing bonus with #BlueJays is $1.45 million dollars. Top bonus in Venezuela."

If correct I believe this signing is for less than most predicted.
Anders - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#259797) #
Make that $50,000. The only way the Jays are not forfeiting a pick is as Marc says there's somethin going on underneath the table or Baretto got a real sweetheart deal. There might be something to the amount of money/prospects the Jays signed last year out of the Ciro Barrios academy. They may have overpaid on those guys with some of that money going to Barreto.

There is no forfeiting picks in international signings because obviously there are no picks.if you are X over you pay tax and are unable to sign anyone for more than $500K the next year; if you are x + 5% over (or whatever it is) you are taxed on the overage and prevented from signing anyone for over $250,000 the following year, IIRC.

sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#259798) #
Just a quick count of the signing bonus'
Barreto got $1,450,000
Castillo got $800,000
Urena got $750,000
Castro?
= $3,000,000

Allowed to spend up to 5% without losing the ability to sign guys over $500,000 next year. 5% is $145,000.

So Castro, who was a high-ranked prospect himself either got $45,000 to sign (I find this hard to believe), or the Jays will not be giving any bonuses next year over $500,000. If this is the case, the Jays have screwed the pooch here.
sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#259799) #
Anders, I apologize for the slip of the tongue, you of course are right and the Jays are not "picking" anyone. I guess I should just link everything I've written on the IFA scene with every post.
Beyonder - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#259800) #
MLB envisions having a draft in place this year or next. The penalties for overspending are as follows (per Appendix 46 to the new Basic Agreement):

a. 0-5% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage.
b. 5-10% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of 1st round pick in the next succeed- ing international draft.
c. 10-15% in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of 1st round pick and 2nd round pick in next succeeding international draft.
d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of loss of 1st round picks in next two succeeding international drafts.

Beyonder - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#259801) #
To be clear, those penalties apply only if there is an international draft next year. If they can't get their act in gear in time, it is as Anders says.
Anders - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#259804) #
Anders, I apologize for the slip of the tongue, you of course are right and the Jays are not "picking" anyone. I guess I should just link everything I've written on the IFA scene with every post.

Not necessary!

greenfrog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#259809) #
It might be an interesting strategy for a team to simply damn the torpedoes and try to get as many top 2012 IFA prospects as it can. Even if the Jays effectively get shut out of next year's IFA market they will have loaded up on talent by dominating the market this year - possibly more talent than they would have been able to pull down in 2012 and 2013 combined had they adhered to the $2.9M threshold this year.

Not sure whether the Jays are in fact doing this, or if this theory holds water, but it's an interesting possibility to contemplate.

PeteMoss - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#259811) #
I really doubt the Jays are going to take a penalty in terms of signing these guys. They are fairly smart cookies.. I'm sure they've structured them some way to get around the penalties in signing next year.
Richard S.S. - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#259817) #
So with $2,900,000.00 to spend on the International Amateur Player signings, plus approximately $144,997.10 (4.9999%) in over-budget sums gives A.A. $3,044,997.10 to work with.   That being the case, how accurate are these signing bonuses for Barreto ($1,450,000.00), Castillo ($800,000.00), Urena ($750,000.00) and Castro ($800,000.00)?   I would like to think at least two or three sources should concur with those figures.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#259818) #
Apparently Rojas is now reporting that Castillo isn't signing with the Jays (per Castillo's trainer):

http://twitter.com/Enrique_Rojas1/status/220591107879346176

Which makes a lot more sense.
sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#259819) #
Richard, it's a fair question to ask. In most cases the sources are reliable and the numbers accurate. I've yet to see the Castro money reported, but again it looks like they've gone over and precluded themselves from signing any marquee guy next year. Regardless of how you spin it, that's not a good thing.
sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#259820) #
haha, I stand corrected.
Richard S.S. - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#259821) #
With an assumed $44,997.00 left, it appears Toronto's finished with the International market.
mendocino - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#259822) #

There is some thought, according to Ben Badler at BA, that the Jays got a good deal with Franklin Barreto, who was rumored to be getting $2 million. The Jays also signed a few other players from the same "trainer" so some deal may have been come to last year where the Jays in essence overpaid at that time with a 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' type of agreement.

start with this guy ... Deiferson Barreto   DSL Blue Jays

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#259823) #

With an assumed $44,997.00 left, it appears Toronto's finished with the International market.

Correction, Toronto has $700,000.00 plus an over-budget figure (4.9999%) of $144,997.10 to have signed Luis Castro and any others.

sam - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#259824) #
Mendocino, Badler earlier commented that he heard the two were unrelated.
James W - Wednesday, July 04 2012 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#259830) #
Not that $2.90 makes much difference, but if they're willing to go 5% over, that's $145,000. If the team fears what will happen at being exactly 5% over, then I'm sure they've determined with the league what the consequences of that are. Whatever it is, it's either $145,000, or $149,999.99.
PeteMoss - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 12:39 AM EDT (#259831) #
So.. looks like Sam Dyson is coming up from AA to replace Scott Richmond. He just made his pro debut this year due to Tommy John surgury. His AA numbers don't show a guy who's ready for the Majors. The 0.75 ERA is pretty but the 8Ks and 8 walks in 24 innings doesn't scream promotion.
jester00 - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 01:46 AM EDT (#259832) #

 

Dyson is an interesting case.  He throws in the mid 90's, doesn't get alot of K's, but is a groundball machine.  Since being moved to the pen upon his promotion to NH he's done this:

15G  24IP  0.75 ERA  19 Hits  2ER  8BB  8K  GO/AO 2.93

May as well see what he's got.  He's 24 and he's replacing Richmond so the downside is minimal.

I'd like to see a corresponding move of Barnes from Dunedin to NH to be the closer.

TamRa - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 02:39 AM EDT (#259835) #
those seemingly unpolished BB/K numbers aside, I find the recall of Dyson fascinating. I would think it means there's more to see there than we realize. And it might also imply something interesting about Stilson.

sam - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 03:08 AM EDT (#259836) #
This might be a little off-base here, however, some teams have a "prospect" game at the beginning of the year in which a team of the organization's top prospects face off against the Big Club in a one off exhibition game. Cincinnati, for example, hosts a "Future's Game" prior to the season. Considering the organization's dependence upon prospects and the (enhanced) interest in these players from the fan base, would it not worth while to host a game a day before the season starts at the Skydome? I'm sure fans would come out and watch.

What are people's thoughts?
China fan - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 06:54 AM EDT (#259839) #
Sam Dyson seems to have a lot of parallels to Henderson Alvarez: he throws in the mid-90s, he reaches up to 97 with some of his pitches, his strikeouts are relatively few, and he's a groundball machine. Since some Bauxites thought Alvarez might be better-suited to the bullpen, the Dyson experiment will be interesting. According to the New Hampshire media, scouts have been raving about Dyson's stuff, calling him "phenomenal." Being promoted to the majors so quickly, after only a half-season of professional baseball, suggests that the Jays are impressed too. (Although of course it also speaks to the turmoil in the Jays bullpen, with its huge army of rotating minor-leaguers.)

Two questions for the crowd: 1) since Dyson was a starter for 6 games at Dunedin this year, does he still have a chance to move to the starting rotation if he impresses in the bullpen? 2) is it possible that the TJ surgery helps explain his low K numbers? Dyson himself says that his recovery from the October 2010 surgery has taken longer than expected. He's still only 20 months removed from the operation. Is there still scope for him to improve as he approaches the 2nd anniversary of the surgery?
Mike Green - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#259840) #
There are certainly a number of cases of pitchers moved to the bullpen after TJ, who have improved 2 years or more after the surgery. 

I am hoping that Dyson stays in the bullpen.

ogator - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#259841) #
I don't know if Dyson is a "ground ball machine' but he certainly has been a "surgery-needing machine". Let's hope that part of his career is behind him.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#259844) #
If Casey Janssen is the hot commodity the Big Interwebbies are saying he is, A.A. needs to find some top replacements. Dyson was going to be a reliever if he was coming up anytime soon - guess what - he's a reliever. IF he can pitch at this level, he's also a trade commodity. If neccessary, he can be stretched out to start. If he isn't good enough, you have a better idea of his future moving forward.
85bluejay - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#259846) #
I was a big fan of the Dyson pick in 2010 despite his medical history - of course, he got hurt again and missed all of 2011, probably eliminating his chances of staying a starter - Part of the jays calculation may be that he's so injury prone, it's better to see what they can get from him before he inevitably breaks down again (maybe permanently). I wish him the best. 
whiterasta80 - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#259850) #

I have no problem with the Dyson call-up.  He's a better option than most of our alternatives.  Hopefully he can give us something in the short term.

Hate the idea of moving Casey Janssen unless it is in a deal for Grienke, Hamels or Garza (coupled with an extension for the first two).  There is no sense in fixing a hole by creating another.

John Northey - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#259852) #
Dyson is interesting to call up.  The Jays are burning a 40 man slot that they didn't need to as he wouldn't have had to be protected this winter.  Suggests they see something in him, and/or they are getting strong feelers on him in the trade market.  Calling him up jumps his value automatically as it shows the other 29 teams the Jays see something in him and if he is effective (big if) then his value could skyrocket. 

This year is interesting.  2 1/2 out of a playoff slot, kids getting a shot, AAA/relievers being effective in the rotation (Laffey/Villanueva), EE pulling a 'Bautista', Lind removed from roster then returning, 3 starters down in less than a week.  Phew.  Mix in the draft, international free agency rule changes that made AA show off his creativity and this is a fun year to be a Jays fan.

Now we just need a killer trade to shoot the comments here to the 1000's.

Richard S.S. - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#259856) #

The Team's top pitchers are in the A's, low, middle and high.   Even if they are Stars, they are a minimum of two years away - possibly 2015 Starters.   (If we were a bottom-ish low income club, they'd already be up.)   One of the A.A.'s acquisitions must be a Pitcher for 2012, 2013, 2014, possibly longer - preferably top of the rotation guy would be nice.   Another acquisition would be a pitcher to pitch this year, if not longer - someone to eat innings.   A third acquisition would be a big bat.

I understand they want Syndergaard in any deal A.A. investigates.   (Sometimes the top Pitchers are 3 or 4 years away and not two.)   An Opportunity exists this year that doesn't normally exist.   Blindly following  A.A.'s plan, misses out on an opportunity to jump past the plan for a brief time.   If trading a Syndergaard, a Gose, a Marisnik plus others of lesser value is considered stripping the Minor system, then we have a very poor Minor system.   The plan could still be followed.   But to not get a top piece, controllable for a while, because you can't trade someone is stupid.  Some make to the "show", and some get traded, while some never get anywhere at all.

hypobole - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#259857) #
Richard, controllable assets are exactly what AA has traded prospects for. Molina, Stewart, Pastornicky and Collins were used to help acquire Santos, Rasmus and Escobar - these ARE the types of moves for which he'll use his minor leaguers. What he won't do (or at least hasn't done yet) is make a Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran type of trade, giving up a good prospect for a half-year player.
Kasi - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#259858) #
Damn that AA for not trading prospects for young controllable players. (once you pull the mental trick of forgetting about the Escobar, Rasmus, Santos trade) I'm of the opinion here that no one will be happy unless AA is perfect and has 20/20 hindsight on everything.
whiterasta80 - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#259859) #

Personally I'd move Gose (or a top 5 prospect) for Grienke, I'd get him in here for the stretch and hope we can convince him to stay on. This is of course with the assumption that the money is there should we want to do that.  Also, my willingness to do so diminishes by the day, or rather with each start he makes for the Brewers instead of us.

There is of course the balance between the Gose for Grienke/Weeler for Beltran type trade and the "AA Special" Stewart for Rasmus or Pastro for Yunel trades.  Wandy, for instance, shouldn't cost any of our top 5 prospects and could help us both this year and next year.  Garza might cost a bit more, but would be similar. 

Other, cheaper possibilities include Liriano, Volquez, Wolf, and Dempster or Marcum if they are healthy. If we really wanted to get "spendy" Gallardo might be the guy to go after. He's under a very nice contract until 2015 though, so we're probably talking D'Arnaud or Gose, Snider, and a high ceiling arm. 

 

Richard S.S. - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#259861) #

Yes, we have so few good pitching prospects that we must hoard each and every one of them, lest we waste them frivolously.   Risk can be an opportunity for success or a fear of a chance of loss.   Sometimes you just have to take a risk.   Sometimes you have to be willing to be wrong.   Not doing something can sometimes be worse than being wrong.

You can go after rental players if they'll sign extentions, or if the price of acquistion is not expensive.   You just have to do something, preferably now. 

Sal - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#259864) #

"Not doing something can sometimes be worse than being wrong"

Ummm ... I hope you were really drunk when you wrote this. It is as illogical as you can get.

whiterasta80 - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#259871) #

Fragmented as the sentence may or may not have been, it made sense to me.

There are plenty of reasons to make a deal right now, not the least of which is to reward a fan base which has been energized by another wild card and a very resilient team.  Honestly, any sort of trade which adds talent is going to be very, VERY well received by the extremely hungry fan base. If we added Grienke I would expect 35,000 at his first start. Heck, I bet Jason Vargas would see a bump. 

To me it is worth dealing a few prospects from a farm system which can handle it.  Besides, I think we're getting a little ridiculous with our prospect happy-ness if we aren't willing to give up a 2 top 10 prospects for Matt Garza or Zach Greinke. Odds are quite good that Wojo or Sanchez will never produce as much WAR in their careers as Zach Greinke could in the rest of this season (let alone if we could extend him). 

Sal - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#259874) #

Just to be clear, I was not arguing for or against aquiring talent for prospects.

I just don't see how willingly making a bad move, and believing it is a bad move, can be justified logically.

Richard S.S. - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#259882) #

Since day one of the season, we've known A.A. was going to have to acquire another pitcher because of innings limitations occurring sometime in August.   Acquiring a rental like Cole Hamels for Syndergaard, Gose and Marisnick and not being able to sign him to an extention is a bad move (unless you win the World Series).   With Hamels being the only one you can acquire, is this "willingly making a bad move"?

Life justifies illogical moves.

bpoz - Thursday, July 05 2012 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#259889) #
IMO no team has as yet made the 1st big move in this years trade deadline.
I understand seeing the positives of only being 2.5 gms back of the 2nd WC. I can also see that many others are in as favorable position. I fear the AL East schedule. However I can see adding Grienke or Hammels and the bat of Miggy as being enough on paper. This will cost us a lot of talent but we are getting a lot of talent. The cost to extend them will also be huge.
If nothing is done the fans will be disappointed, win or lose. If something is done then the fans should be happy, what ever the results.
whiterasta80 - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#259903) #

First of all I actually do think that, certainly be coupled with a few low cost acquisitions (say Joe Blanton and Ty Wigginton), Greinke or Hamels might be enough to push us into contention.  But that is really a secondary argument here.

I will concede that you ideally make the big trade with a certain degree of confidence that you are going to be able to re-sign the person. However, having said that, the worst case scenario here may still be a win in terms of value. Taken together I would say it is worth the risk!  Of course you also have to look at the specific person you are targetting:

With Grienke, the only reason we wouldn't be able to re-sign him is if we didn't have the money, if we have the money I'm reasonably confident he will re-sign. Because of this I'm willing to pay more for him. In fact, I will go one step further with him and say that he re-signs with whomever he is traded to before he hits the open market. So this may be our only shot at him.

Hamels is a different story and this is where you need to have more info.  I've heard a few times that he wants to pitch specifically for the dodgers.  So he might spurn the team he is traded to for less money.  If that is the case you obviously want to avoid that situation, or pay accordingly.

Sal - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#259908) #

"Life justifies illogical moves."

No it doesn't. Life punishes illogical moves. It would not be wise to tear down what has taken 3 years to build so that we increase our playoff chances from 20% to 30% for one year. We'd still be unlikely to make the playoffs.

Getting Hamels will not make Romero good again and will not heal Morrow and Hutchison. A good portion of the bullpen would still need fixing as well.

whiterasta80 - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#259909) #

Sal, again you speak as if it is a foregone conclusion that any move we make for this season will not impact next season, and the season after, and so on. I reiterate my belief that Grienke will sign an extension with whomever he is traded to but even if you don't believe me, Matt Garza is a near-elite option who would be signed through next season, Wandy Rodriguez is signed for 2 more. We might be increasing playoff chances for years to come rather than just this season. You also speak as if AA has only added 3 good prospects (the likely cost of a big acquisition) in his time here.  Our farm system can handle one of these moves without being decimated!

Beyond that we have Jose Bautista in his prime and that won't last forever.  We should be perfectly willing to sacrifice a theoretically competitive team 3-5 years from now in favour of a tangibly competitive team this season.  Otherwise we'll be sitting here 8 years from now talking about how we had this HOF calibre player but didn't surround him with enough talent (see Delgado, Carlos; Halladay, Roy).

This is a major league team with responsibilities to put a good product on the field that have been ignored in favour of "the future" for a very long time. If we stick with this continual "wait until Wojo is ready" mentality then we will very quickly become the Pirates or the Royals for that matter. Dreaming on prospects is fun, but they will break your heart with incredible regularity be it through injury, a failure to develop, or developing late. Personally I would think it would be much better to just watch minor league baseball if all that interests you is prospects. 

Sal - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#259915) #

I don't think your belief reflects reality. Grienke will sign with the team which offers him the most money, which probably won't be the Blue Jays.  I don't believe Garza and Wandy would increase the Jays playoff chances significantly. The Jays are not 1 pitcher and 1 hitter away from competing; their rotation and bullpen are full of injuries and/or bad pitchers.

Nobody is against trading prospects if we get fair value for them. But making a bad move, and knowing it is bad, just so that we have a slightly better chance for a wildcard spot in the next 4 months is something only terrible GMs do. This is the stuff that makes those top-10-lopsided-trades-of-all-time lists.

greenfrog - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#259918) #
whiterasta, I think the problem is the cost. Everybody is clamouring for one of those few desirable arms, and the price is going to rise accordingly. For the most part, AA has succeeded by buying low and selling high. I think it would be a mistake to deviate from that strategy. For one thing, under the new CBA the opportunities may be fewer for the Jays to add minor-league talent at the same rate going forward. I don't think they should get overconfident about having a perpetual bounty waiting down on the farm. There are also going to be two wild card spots up for grabs in 2013, 2014, 2015...no need to go all in (unless the right deal becomes available).

Also, why would Hamels or Greinke agree to an extension with a potentially huge payday after the season looming? Doc agreed to one because he wanted to go to Philly. Hard to see one of these players feeling the same way about Toronto.
hypobole - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#259919) #
"I reiterate my belief that Grienke will sign an extension with whomever he is traded to but even if you don't believe me"

Everyone here believes that is what you think. However that does not make it reality.
Mike Green - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#259920) #
For the most part, AA has succeeded by buying low and selling high

AA has not succeeded at anything important.  When your club has not played any meaningful games in September, you have certainly not succeeded.  What he has done is taken steps which could lead to success.  I am not suggesting that Greinke or Hamels would or would not be good acquisitions, or that they would or would not be willing to come to Toronto.

If one is talking about using the Tampa method to success, AA firstly didn't have their assets coming in and secondly hasn't displayed their (admittedly very high) level of skill. 

This shouldn't be taken as severe criticism.  My lightning bolts are reserved for Rogers.
China fan - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#259922) #
"....AA has not succeeded at anything important...."

Harsh, but true.

"....My lightning bolts are reserved for Rogers...."

Mine too.
Ryan Day - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#259925) #
For the most part, AA has succeeded by buying low and selling high.

Has he? His "Buy Lows" would, I think, be Escobar, Rasmus and Johnson, which so far is a fairly mixed bag. Maybe you'd include Morrow there, too. And I can't think of many players he's "sold high" on - Alex Gonzalez?

His best moves have probably been relatively even on the talent-for-talent scale - Halladay for D'arnaud & Drabek (though it remains to be seen if Drabek will ever pitch effectively for the Jays), Marcum for Lawrie. Santos-Molina could be good, if Santos makes it back.
TamRa - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#259926) #
" A good portion of the bullpen would still need fixing as well."

The bullpen isn't that bad. the overall totals are drug down by the failure of the revolving door guys and Cordero. Janssen and Oliver frankly can't get much better; Perez and Frasor are just fine at their job (albeit not always used well) and that's your 7th/8th/9th most nights right there.

Admittedly they need to find something reliable for those days when the starter comes out of the game before getting through 6, and they need to quit using Cordero when the game is within reach...but to me that's the margins of the bullpen, not a "good portion"

And if they manage to get Santos back that's a big upgrade.
greenfrog - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#259927) #
"AA has not succeeded at anything important"

I think you're using too narrow a lens. The major-league club hasn't performed any better (in terms of wins and losses) under AA than it did under Ricciardi, but that's the wrong metric, given AA's brief tenure and strategic shift. Eventually wins and losses will determine AA's legacy, but he's attempting to do what his predecessor never really managed to do: build a durable foundation for success. On this front, I would argue he's doing a stellar job. I note that Jim Callis just observed that the Jays now have as good a minor-league system as any team in baseball (they were one of the worst when Ricciardi departed). And that's after promoting Lawrie, Alvarez and Hutchison, and trading for Morrow, Escobar and Rasmus.

I agree that the team could have done more to add a SP in the off-season (they apparently did make a run at Beltran), and there may be issues with Rogers' unwillingness to spend, but in the big picture all indications are the GM is doing a great job.
greenfrog - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#259928) #
I would also put Gose-for-Wallace in the buy-low category. Certainly Morrow belongs there.

The Wells trade belongs in the sell-high category.

But the concept of buying low can be applied outside of the trade/FA context as well. Using various ingenious moves to add extra draft picks prior to the new CBA, and strengthening the front office and scouting department to leverage those picks, was clearly a form of buying low. Judging by the recent IFA moves, the Jays also seem to be a pretty robust presence in Latin America.
Mike Green - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#259929) #
At several points during Ricciardi's tenure, BA gave the Jay farm system very high marks.  It is true that it is good to have a deep farm system. 

Wells for Napoli was brilliant, and helped to set the stage for the Rasmus trade (the salary dump in the Wells trade was to a modest degree used in the Rasmus/Teahen acquisition).  Some other moves have not turned out as well.  More importantly, the organization during AA's tenure has not shown the flair for innovative thinking that the Rays' organization under Friedman has displayed.  "Buy low, sell high" is not a bad starting point, but it won't take you all the way to where you need to go. 

whiterasta80 - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#259932) #

Hypobole, I personally think the money will be near equal from a bunch of teams for Greinke and, because of his personality, he will sign early and be done with it.  If he is already with a team that can offer him the 6/120 then I don't think he hits the market.  If the Brewers offered him the Cain deal I think that he'd already be signed. This is of course a personal opinion which I acknowledge however, despite the smarmy tone with which you choose to question my opinion, until November 1st you are no more right than I am.

Greenfrog, I admittedly don't know what the cost of these arms is , and I am not advocating emptying a farm system for a single pitcher. However, in my opinion, being gunshy on a deal that will clearly improve an already competitive team is worse than making the occasional bad trade. For instance, I think that the costs of Latos and Gio this past offseason were perfectly fair. 

I also think that people in this city have completely forgotten what it is like to have a competitive team regardless of whether we go all the way.  1983, 1987, 1991: these were pretty good years in my books.  When we added Mike Flannagan in 87 and Tom Candiotti in 1991 I was at their first starts completely excited. Neither of those trades really worked out and yet we still had exciting baseball into September (and October in 91).

Of course the second wild card will be around next year etc but there is this assumption that everything that is going good now will keep being good while we solve the other problems.  It doesn't work that way! Things happen, we might not have EE, Bautista could break a wrist, or just start his decline, Colby could go back to 2011 performances etc... A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and 2.5 games out of the playoffs in July is worth something. Its worth investing in, its worth rushing some prospects (for other teams, actually with D'Arnaud out I can't think of a single prospect I'd advocate rushing), trading others and spending some money.

hypobole - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#259933) #
whiterasta, yes my reply was smarmy and I apologize. I still think you are absolutely wrong in your assessment of the Jays and Grienke, and I'll leave it at that.

As far as making moves, the Jays are in the worst position, too good to be true sellers and not good enough to be real buyers. Hope they go on a hot streak, although i'm not holding my breath.

As far as AA not accomplishing anything, we are all in agreement that Rogers has held him back, at least to some extent. However I want to point out another group largely responsible. Despite the Jays playing in the 4th or 5th largest market, and the Jays playing .500 or better baseball, the jays finished 25th and 26th the past 2 years in attendance. Can't blame the 20,000+ that do show up, but the fickle fanbase has not made a case to Rogers that financially they should be all-in on the ballclub. If AA hasn't accomplished anything, the fanbase has accomplished less.
Mike Green - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#259934) #
Um...it's Friday afternoon, so no lightning bolts.  But, can we agree that Rogers is doing very well on the Jays courtesy of broadcast revenues, regardless whether they draw crowds of 23K or 30K? 
greenfrog - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#259935) #
I imagine Rogers is doing very well from its ownership of the Jays. But just how well seems to be a well-kept secret.
whiterasta80 - Friday, July 06 2012 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#259943) #
While I do think that Rogers is doing plenty well on the Jays, hypobole makes a good point that the fan base needs to stand and be counted as well. Mind you I do think the U.S. teams do a better job of "fudging" attendance figures than we do.

Nevertheless I think that with the extra wild card you will see that with time. But you have to admit that loading up with a few pieces that include a Hamels or Grienke would be a way to call the fans on this.

If we compete into august/september and attendance doesnt go up, they can easily justify not extending. If (as I think/hope would happen) we are getting 27-30000 into late August while contending then you have the justification to extend.
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