I don't much like the idea of taking on Yoshi the Great and Terrible in a must-win game. So win this one.
Matchup
Yesavage (1-0, 3.21) vs Snell (5-4, 2.35)
The Blue Jays are in a best of three for the World Series!
Pinch me.
Pinch me.
Yesavage didn't have his signature pitch at all in game 1, and still did ok. I'm betting tonight he has the splitter out in full force, and while the dodgers have seen him once they really haven't seen the devastating splitter yet.
I also expect Snell to be much better, tho.
I also expect Snell to be much better, tho.
Yeah Katie, this is wild. I hope everyone is enjoying themselves!
That's a money quote from Bo.
'Character' is one of those terms that gets too much play with the Cathal Kellys of the world, but these Jays keep talking about character and then, seemingly, demonstrating character in their actions.
I think this team has earned that nebulous 'character' designation, which has helped make this whole run such fun.
That, and just the sheer weirdness of it that you guys have noted - Bassit is now a great reliever, our starter tonight began the year, and his career, in A ball, a bunch of longshot rookies or AAAA guys are contributing throughout the team?
It's a bonus that it's the Dodgers, such a storied franchise, and we get to watch peak Ohtani every night.
That's a money quote from Bo.
'Character' is one of those terms that gets too much play with the Cathal Kellys of the world, but these Jays keep talking about character and then, seemingly, demonstrating character in their actions.
I think this team has earned that nebulous 'character' designation, which has helped make this whole run such fun.
That, and just the sheer weirdness of it that you guys have noted - Bassit is now a great reliever, our starter tonight began the year, and his career, in A ball, a bunch of longshot rookies or AAAA guys are contributing throughout the team?
It's a bonus that it's the Dodgers, such a storied franchise, and we get to watch peak Ohtani every night.
I wonder if Lauer is available for a lefty or two tonight.
Anything is possible given the importance of this game, but I would have thought that Lauer, Bassitt and Klein were not available for tonight. Varland is probably available but you'd really worry about his effectiveness on the third appearance in three days after throwing 40 pitches in the past two games. Everyone else looks available for both teams (although Little and Treinen may have moved into "break only in case of emergency" status).
Who is realistically available in the bullpen tonight?
Available: Hoffman, Seranthony, Fisher, Little
Unclear: Bassitt, Lauer, Fluharty, Varland
Yesavage will probably throw around 4-6 innings, depending how he performs. There will likely be some stressful innings after that once Schneider starts deploying his relievers.
Available: Hoffman, Seranthony, Fisher, Little
Unclear: Bassitt, Lauer, Fluharty, Varland
Yesavage will probably throw around 4-6 innings, depending how he performs. There will likely be some stressful innings after that once Schneider starts deploying his relievers.
Dodgers moving Smith up to #2 which I think is good for Jays relievers. You now have two righties 8/9, then Ohtani and then two more righties. For Seranthony, that's a great place to pitch. Just IBB Ohtani. Much harder to use lefties though because Dodgers have their lefties at 1/4/7.
you know it kills Roberts to have to hit the scramble button and change things up. This is the first significant change to his lineup in the playoffs.
Blake Murphy
@BlakeMurphyODC
·
6s
George Springer is feeling better. Hitting in the cage off velocity and running in the field today. "Better than he expected to feel," and seeing how he responds to those workouts.
If he doesn't start, there's a chance he can pinch hit.
@BlakeMurphyODC
·
6s
George Springer is feeling better. Hitting in the cage off velocity and running in the field today. "Better than he expected to feel," and seeing how he responds to those workouts.
If he doesn't start, there's a chance he can pinch hit.
Let's hope that news about Springer is correct. However, it feels like "Roberts says he'll bring in a position player if this goes to the 18th" kind of news though. Art of War and all that.
I didn't realize this until I heard him mention it in an interview last night, but Chris Bassitt was a reliever in college - in fact he was a MAC conference 2nd team allstar as the closer for the University of Akron. After being drafted by the Whitesox, he started in the pen until they figured out he might actually be able to start and made the conversion.
We need the win tonight. I think we can get to Glasnow again in Toronto, but Yamamoto has been unstoppable.
Arden Zwelling
@ArdenZwelling
·
19m
There was a Game 4 scenario in which Springer would have pinch-ran for Bichette late in the game, per Blue Jays manager John Schneider
@ArdenZwelling
·
19m
There was a Game 4 scenario in which Springer would have pinch-ran for Bichette late in the game, per Blue Jays manager John Schneider
no springer.
1. LF Schneider
2. 1B Guerrero
3. DH Bichette
4. C Kirk
5. CF Varsho
6. 3B Clement
7. RF Barger
8. 2B Falefa
9. SS Gimenez
I can understand IKF on the roster, but I will never understand the desire to give him everyday abs. Giving Springer another couple of days off might mean he can start and be not too hurt back in Toronto. Yamamoto was great but this idea that he gives the Dodgers an automatic win is silly.
Yeah, the IKF playing is pretty crazy. I'd have Schneider at 2B and Lukes in OF instead, you can still do your better defense IKF and Straw coming in late in the game. Or if you really can't tolerate Schneider at 2B you could do Clement at 2B, Barger at 3B, Lukes in RF and Scheider in LF instead of IKF.
With Yesavage starting he is higher K% than most, so you'd think that means defense is less important, although he is also a higher GB% on balls in contact so perhaps the better infield defense for worse OF defense is the right call.
With Yesavage starting he is higher K% than most, so you'd think that means defense is less important, although he is also a higher GB% on balls in contact so perhaps the better infield defense for worse OF defense is the right call.
Davis has been a poor hitter in the postseason, for what it’s worth. He was bad in September as well. He was great from June to August. Make of that what you will.
The other option would be Clement at 2B, Barger at 3B and, if you want to protect Lukes from the lefty, Straw in the outfield. Straw has speed and bunting ability advantage over IKF.
Lukes should be playing over IKF, but clearly the Jays value IKF higher than every other team. Maybe significantly higher. The issue I have is that they never pinch hit for him because they don’t want to lose him on defense. So you have to hope his weak contact find holes.
Vladdy hitting .500 with .600 obp and slugging over a 1.000 when hitting in the #2 spot in the the 2025 playoffs.
Love seeing Vladdy #2!
Love seeing Vladdy #2!
LAD has about as bad a fielding OF out there as it gets.
and they're not even a very good hitting OF either.
and they're not even a very good hitting OF either.
BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM Davis BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM
Incredible start. So good. Love the back-to-back to secure two runs. Yesavage must be loving this.
first world series game to featuring leadoff back to backs.
Loved the HRs. Didn’t love the steal. Getting Snell’s pitch count up still has value. Plus, with Ernie at the plate you’re already in scoring position:)
He's better than the 1st game, but I'm not sure if he's on 100% yet, but still about as good of a 1st inning as you could realistically imagine on both sides of the ball.
Ok, maybe he's got enough of it, strike out the side.
The closeup on Kirk’s mask on Edman’s K was pretty funny - big grin and a little peak at Edman.
Snell approaching Ned Flanders with more respect this at bat.
missed that nigel would love to see the clip
Snell never threw a single ball in the strike zone to Kirk.
Love the add-on run in response to the Kike HR.
IKF is really struggling. Even by his standards. Great AB by Barger.
I hate bunts with a passion but IKF can go ahead and bunt whenever.
Yesavage is on fire. He’s mowing down a WS lineup like they’re low-A ball hitters.
hbp + dribbler is their first rally of the day
so happy that Davis finally taking advantage of his chances. what a game from him.
Very nice BB by Davis (though he probably swung at the 2-2 pitch).
Wonder if Adam Ottavino is going to break down Trey’s start on his podcast.
10 strikeouts sweet baby jesus
bring him back out for the top of the order on 80 pitches (hell yes)
bring him back out for the top of the order on 80 pitches (hell yes)
I would have someone in the bullpen warming once the sixth inning starts. Third time through the order and 77 pitches.
Amazing start by Yesavage but I'd have someone up and near ready for the 6th. Fastball is down 2 mph and his stuff is starting to be more scattershot.
He’s at 77 pitches according to Gameday.
Definitely bring him out to start the sixth.
The Blue Jays need at least one more run to give Trey and the bullpen a cushion. There is still a ways to go in this one.
Definitely bring him out to start the sixth.
The Blue Jays need at least one more run to give Trey and the bullpen a cushion. There is still a ways to go in this one.
I have to say I am getting a little nervous that this game could trickle away from us. We need some more hits.
Not sure how they navigate the next 4 innings. Yesavage, Fluharty/Fisher, Dominguez, Proven Closer?
3 runs off snell and getting him out by the 7th is hard to be too upset about tbh.
Take it one out at a time and have your best bullpen arms, left and right, warming in case they’re needed.
Maybe Yesavage for Freddie and then a RH reliever?
IKF might be able to work a walk against a tiring Snell. Don’t bunt at balls
If you're bunting, then BUNT when it's a strike!
IKF just willed that wild pitch. what a ballplayer.
IKF continues to be 0 for the series...brutal.
An underrated feat is the Jays are tied 2-2 in this series and winning Game 5 and their #8 hitter is 0-for-15 and has failed to sac bunt in two of those at-bats.
another advantage of Vladdy being #2. He's up now.
Barger making the point of how silly the pinch run the other night was. Fantastic game for Barger.
that's a great pitch damn.
let's do this vladito
let's do this vladito
Enriquez has 3 WP in 22.1 IP over the last couple of seasons in the majors. Now would be a good time for another one.
this rookie is a normal rookie - nervous as hell. Yesavage is a sociopath thankfully.
Let’s just get through the inning without any Blue Jays getting hit with a 100 MPH pitch.
a team full of highly paid superstars and they're gonna let this rookie fry all out there by himself. feel bad for the kid tbh.
So many good ABs. One after the other. When the Meat Grinder starts is really something.
Dave Roberts muttering to himself and shaking his head after the Bichette hit.
rookie record 35Ks in a postseason for Yesavage.
He also tied (I think) the rookie record for Ks in a WS start. With Don Newcombe. And he’s still pitching.
Wow. Straw replacing Ned Flanders now and not Barger on the basepaths earlier is a strong statement about how Schneider feels about Ned's D. Ouch!
Yes. Historic start for Yesavage — as Buck just said. Unbelievably good. His best-ever start, on the biggest stage, in game 5 of the World Series. Wow.
To think that Trey fell all the way to 20th in the 2024 draft, allowing the Blue Jays to select him.
First pitcher in World Series history to strike out at least 12 and not walk a batter.
Yesavage has K-ed the entire Dodgers lineup, and two on Smith, Betts and Freeman. Sweet.
Smith has looked gassed defensively the last 2 nights. I don’t think he’s this bad defensively normally.
He hasn't been a "big contributor," Buck, but we'll let that one slide.
He's caught 36 innings in about 52 hours. I think we might be seeing the results of that.
Should Pete Walker be talking to Seranthony before facing Ohtani again?
ha messed him up with a changeup down the middle this time.
and vladdy makes the play in instant classic style.
everything is so so good.
and vladdy makes the play in instant classic style.
everything is so so good.
Seranthony put a wrinkle on that pitch to get Ohtani. 86 MPH splitter instead of a 98 MPH this time.
It could be the 18 inning game hurt the Dodgers more. We rested half our guys and we platoon more.
The Athletic: “The 23 swings-and-misses he generated are the most in a World Series game since at least 2008, when pitch tracking began.”
Hoffman doesn’t look great. I would prefer Fisher or Varland here.
hoffman threw 33 yesterday. I know we have a day off but still sucks that he'll be at 50+ pitches over these two games.
Nip this in the bud if Freeman gets on, John Schneider.
Dodgers have definitely looked more worn out and a bit discouraged, but going against a lights out pitcher can make you seem that way.
Game 6 pitching matchup favours LA, but hopefully they saw enough of Yamamoto to get a feel for him.
See you Friday!
Game 6 pitching matchup favours LA, but hopefully they saw enough of Yamamoto to get a feel for him.
See you Friday!
Wow! One win away from the World Series. Unreal. What a performance by Yesavage. Two chances to get this done at home.
Jays outscored the Dodgers within the first three pitches of the game.
Snell picks up two losses in the WS.
Yamamoto isn't invincible, is he?
Snell picks up two losses in the WS.
Yamamoto isn't invincible, is he?
I feel like this team plays better baseball than even the 92/93 jays.
Pretty cool to hear that Jack Morris called Paul Molitor and they agreed to buy tickets and go watch game 6 in Toronto live with their sons.
Dodger fan site comment:
"Blue Jays have firmly cemented themselves as my second-favorite team. The way they play is so much more entertaining than every other organization. They can slug early in the count, but have excellent contact approaches with two strikes. They run the bases well and play excellent defense.
If I were a neutral observer, I'd be pulling for them hard simply because I think it would be good for baseball if they won. Winning a WS in this fashion might force the rest of the league (include the Dodgers, hopefully) to take notice of how they play and try to replicate it. It's truly a breath of fresh air compared to the 3 true outcome, defense-be-damned mindset that has plagued the MLB for the better part of ten years."
"Blue Jays have firmly cemented themselves as my second-favorite team. The way they play is so much more entertaining than every other organization. They can slug early in the count, but have excellent contact approaches with two strikes. They run the bases well and play excellent defense.
If I were a neutral observer, I'd be pulling for them hard simply because I think it would be good for baseball if they won. Winning a WS in this fashion might force the rest of the league (include the Dodgers, hopefully) to take notice of how they play and try to replicate it. It's truly a breath of fresh air compared to the 3 true outcome, defense-be-damned mindset that has plagued the MLB for the better part of ten years."
Like I said around the 16th or 17th inning on Monday - Smith is really getting worked hard, and with the pinch-run by Heineman, Kirk got a bunch of rest in comparison.
I mean, game 4 was like a day game after a night game, and they almost never let the same catcher catch both, and then right back at it today - not surprised at all Smith was having trouble on defense. Ohtani was also tired out yesterday. The platoon approach, even if we didn't win the game, made it so almost none of our guys were as badly worn out as some of the Dodgers.
Here's hoping we can get some game 1 momentum back, since both teams get a day off tomorrow.. Hopefully George is 80%+ and rested and Bo can play at least half the game at 2B.
I mean, game 4 was like a day game after a night game, and they almost never let the same catcher catch both, and then right back at it today - not surprised at all Smith was having trouble on defense. Ohtani was also tired out yesterday. The platoon approach, even if we didn't win the game, made it so almost none of our guys were as badly worn out as some of the Dodgers.
Here's hoping we can get some game 1 momentum back, since both teams get a day off tomorrow.. Hopefully George is 80%+ and rested and Bo can play at least half the game at 2B.
dalimon5 - I agree. This team reminds me a lot of the 92/93 teams - yes, hit some HR, but no one with 30+, but high OBP, putting pressure on the other team, and lots of platooning.
It's like they're exploiting the new market inefficiency - teams have overpaid for offense and neglected defense, so by putting the ball in play more, you can take a lot of value away from the other team's great hitters by letting them make errors..
It's like they're exploiting the new market inefficiency - teams have overpaid for offense and neglected defense, so by putting the ball in play more, you can take a lot of value away from the other team's great hitters by letting them make errors..
Dalimon, thank you for sharing that awesome fact
Vladdy scored the winning run on the 3rd pitch of the game.
Dodgers Look a few years past their prime.
Dodgers Look a few years past their prime.
I feel like this team plays better baseball than even the 92/93 jays.
They've definitely got a lot more guys. Both the 92 and 93 teams had lots of guys who were active but barely got off the bench in the post-season - Tabler, Bell, Griffin, Sprague, Knorr, and Mulliniks combined had three plate appearances in '92; Canate, Butler, Griffin, Knorr, Coles, Schofield combined had two plate appearances in '93. They were all active, but Gaston - wisely, I think - stuck with his nine regulars. (It's not at all how he ran the pitching staff.)
They've definitely got a lot more guys. Both the 92 and 93 teams had lots of guys who were active but barely got off the bench in the post-season - Tabler, Bell, Griffin, Sprague, Knorr, and Mulliniks combined had three plate appearances in '92; Canate, Butler, Griffin, Knorr, Coles, Schofield combined had two plate appearances in '93. They were all active, but Gaston - wisely, I think - stuck with his nine regulars. (It's not at all how he ran the pitching staff.)
I never noticed before that there was an 8 year age gap on the '92 & '93 Jays between Alomar & Carter.
I always lumped the two together because they came over together in the famous Padres trade & were the faces & stars of the WS teams.
But even though Alomar had already played 4 full MLB seasons by the the time the Jays won in '92, he was only in his age 24 season while Carter was already over the hill at 32.
Alomar & Carter were actually more comparable in age to Springer & Bo on the '25 team (though shifted a few year more mature) than to Bo & Vlad.
I was looking at the ages of the '92 & '93 teams due to the above post mentioning Cito barely using Ed Sprague off the bench in the '92 postseason despite hitting his famous HR off Jeff Reardon. Sprague only had 3 WS PAs that year and barely played in the regular season.
Sprague would become the starting 3B for the '93 regular season after Kelly Gruber broke down sooner-than-expected at age 30/31, traded to the California Angels for Luis Sojo and only playing another 18 games lifetime.
Sprague was the same age as Alomar in '92 and a year olded than Olerud despite those two already having multiple full MLB seasons before the '92 run.
I always lumped the two together because they came over together in the famous Padres trade & were the faces & stars of the WS teams.
But even though Alomar had already played 4 full MLB seasons by the the time the Jays won in '92, he was only in his age 24 season while Carter was already over the hill at 32.
Alomar & Carter were actually more comparable in age to Springer & Bo on the '25 team (though shifted a few year more mature) than to Bo & Vlad.
I was looking at the ages of the '92 & '93 teams due to the above post mentioning Cito barely using Ed Sprague off the bench in the '92 postseason despite hitting his famous HR off Jeff Reardon. Sprague only had 3 WS PAs that year and barely played in the regular season.
Sprague would become the starting 3B for the '93 regular season after Kelly Gruber broke down sooner-than-expected at age 30/31, traded to the California Angels for Luis Sojo and only playing another 18 games lifetime.
Sprague was the same age as Alomar in '92 and a year olded than Olerud despite those two already having multiple full MLB seasons before the '92 run.
Freeman is 35. Muncy is 34.
Smith broke his hand this year.
Edman is not that good.
Their young guy is Pages who had a big season with a .774 OPS. Much better than Teoscar, but seemingly ran out of fuel.
Smith broke his hand this year.
Edman is not that good.
Their young guy is Pages who had a big season with a .774 OPS. Much better than Teoscar, but seemingly ran out of fuel.
How good was Yesavage vs past Jays in the World Series? Let's check Game Score (not perfect, but fun)
- 1992: Morris 54, Cone 36, Guzman 66 (8 IP 1 ER 2 R 7 K 1 BB), Key 71 (7 2/3 5 H 1 R/ER 0 BB 6 SO), Morris 22, Cone 63
- 1993: Guzman 43, Stewart 42, Hentgen 61, Stottlyemyre 23 (and a bloody chin), Guzman 63 (lost pitchers duel with Smoltz), Stewart 46
- 2025: Yesavage 48, Gausman 60, Scherzer 43, Bieber 56, Yesavage 79 (!!!), Gausman ??? (Friday night)
93 team was much better at the top and had less depth. Top four guys combined for 24 FWAR vs 17.6 for this squad. 1993 also had 4 players with at least 150 PAs with negative WAR too. (this was more common then because WAR wasn't a thing and teamd valued things differently. For example, the worst qualified player this year was Castellanos with -0.6 WAR and there were only five qualified players with negative WAR. In 1993, there were two players at - 2.6 WAR and 12 qualified players with negative WAR. We just know more now. This team is extremely fun and deep.
The Dodgers have Conforto with -0.6 WAR. 138 games played 486 PAs.
The Dodgers have a weird bullpen. Lots of guys with good fastballs, but they're almost all low leverage guys.
Or maybe the managers doesn't trust any of them.
Or maybe the managers doesn't trust any of them.
Dodgers also have the dynamic bullpen duo of Tanner Scott (-0.6 WAR in 57IP) and Kirby Yates (-0.5 WAR in 41 IP). They paid a tidy $29M for this combined perfomance and are on the hook for another $56M to Scott over the next 3 seasons.
Northey - Guzman lost to Schilling in G5 ‘93, not Smoltz
The 2025 Dodgers remind me more of the 93 Jays than the 2025 Jays. I don’t remember any previous Jays team that really resembles this one (and I’ve seen them all). Maybe the 84/85 Jays are the closest.
"93 team was much better at the top and had less depth."
Vladdy+Bo+Springer might be closer to Olerud+Alomar+Molitor/Winfield than we might think.
Vladdy+Bo+Springer might be closer to Olerud+Alomar+Molitor/Winfield than we might think.
Per Jayson Stark in The Athletic:
“PITCHERS WITH 2 POSTSEASON GAMES OF 10+K IN SAME YEAR
(Since 2000)
2025 — Trey Yesavage
2025 — Tarik Skubal
2019 — Gerrit Cole
2017 and ’19 — Stephen Strasburg
2013 — Max Scherzer
2012 and ’13 — Justin Verlander
2009 — Cliff Lee
2003 — Josh Beckett
2001 — Randy Johnson”
“PITCHERS WITH 2 POSTSEASON GAMES OF 10+K IN SAME YEAR
(Since 2000)
2025 — Trey Yesavage
2025 — Tarik Skubal
2019 — Gerrit Cole
2017 and ’19 — Stephen Strasburg
2013 — Max Scherzer
2012 and ’13 — Justin Verlander
2009 — Cliff Lee
2003 — Josh Beckett
2001 — Randy Johnson”
uglyone - good point.
No question in my mind, 92/93 were stars & scrubs. If they had injuries like this team has had (Bo, Springer) they'd have been toast. I agree with Nigel on the '85 team - that club had Jesse Barfield at 6.9 WAR (but wasn't seen as the big star he was, since a lot of that was thanks to defense and walks - his high K total for the era was seen as a big negative then). Bell was 2nd at 4.1, then 3 guys in the 3's (Fernandez, Mulliniks, Moseby). Pitching was key that year - Stieb 6.8, Key 5.0 as a first year starter (age 24, was in relief the year before), Alexander 4.8. No other pitcher over 2 WAR. Henke 1.1 in half a season as a lock down closer (13 saves, 1 blown).
That '85 team locked in my fandom of the Jays for a lifetime. I suspect this 2025 one has done the same for my daughter (my youngest has zero interest in it). What is funny is my 20 year old still cheers on Ohtani to a limited degree, she just loves to cheer him on but hopes he doesn't screw it up for the Jays.
- Olerud + Alomar + Winfield/Molitor = 3.4+6.6+4.1 + 7.8+6.1+5.6 = 14.1 + 19.5 = 33.6 / 2 = 16.8 per year for 92/93
- Vlad + Bo + Springer = 4.5 + 3.4 + 4.8 = 12.7
No question in my mind, 92/93 were stars & scrubs. If they had injuries like this team has had (Bo, Springer) they'd have been toast. I agree with Nigel on the '85 team - that club had Jesse Barfield at 6.9 WAR (but wasn't seen as the big star he was, since a lot of that was thanks to defense and walks - his high K total for the era was seen as a big negative then). Bell was 2nd at 4.1, then 3 guys in the 3's (Fernandez, Mulliniks, Moseby). Pitching was key that year - Stieb 6.8, Key 5.0 as a first year starter (age 24, was in relief the year before), Alexander 4.8. No other pitcher over 2 WAR. Henke 1.1 in half a season as a lock down closer (13 saves, 1 blown).
That '85 team locked in my fandom of the Jays for a lifetime. I suspect this 2025 one has done the same for my daughter (my youngest has zero interest in it). What is funny is my 20 year old still cheers on Ohtani to a limited degree, she just loves to cheer him on but hopes he doesn't screw it up for the Jays.
My favourite Jason Stark stat is this one:
In postseason history, per STATS, there have been only two postseason games in which …
• A pitcher struck out 10 or more.
• That pitcher struck out at least five hitters in a row.
• That pitcher struck out at least half the batters he faced.
• And that pitcher allowed fewer than five men to reach base via a hit, walk or hit-by-pitch.
One was Yesavage vs the Dodgers last night. And the other? Yesavage vs the Yankees October 5th.
In postseason history, per STATS, there have been only two postseason games in which …
• A pitcher struck out 10 or more.
• That pitcher struck out at least five hitters in a row.
• That pitcher struck out at least half the batters he faced.
• And that pitcher allowed fewer than five men to reach base via a hit, walk or hit-by-pitch.
One was Yesavage vs the Dodgers last night. And the other? Yesavage vs the Yankees October 5th.
After Yamamoto threw the complete game against the Jays, I was thinking the one thing we really lack is a true no.1 stud pitcher that makes the opposition know they're in for a really tough night when they're pitching.
After last night I'm thinking, could Yesavage be that guy? I know it's very early in his career but besides his amazing pitches, nothing seems to faze him. Playing in the World Series against the defending champions in their park in front of 50 thousand plus people? No problem." It was fun, even the crap talking in the bullpen before the game." he said. I think we have a real winner here.
After last night I'm thinking, could Yesavage be that guy? I know it's very early in his career but besides his amazing pitches, nothing seems to faze him. Playing in the World Series against the defending champions in their park in front of 50 thousand plus people? No problem." It was fun, even the crap talking in the bullpen before the game." he said. I think we have a real winner here.
One more Jays win and Ross Atkins' job may be safe this winter. :)
In all seriousness. I've mentioned this before, but I've never heard one person say "I like Ross Atkins". He's made moves people have liked, yes. But it's nothing like AA, who many people (myself included), were willing to say they actually liked, and in some cases even loved, as a GM.
In all seriousness. I've mentioned this before, but I've never heard one person say "I like Ross Atkins". He's made moves people have liked, yes. But it's nothing like AA, who many people (myself included), were willing to say they actually liked, and in some cases even loved, as a GM.
Yes, Yesavage is damn fun and he is under team control for 6 more years. Woohoo!
Btw, for fun I checked world series champion odds at FanGraphs - pre-season 2.5% for the Jays (before the Toyko series that LAD played in, climbed to 2.8% by opening day), April 30th 1.3%, May 31st 1.8%, June 30th 3.2%, July 31st 7.6%, August 31st 8.7%, Sept 30th 10.3% (#1 in AL East, #2 in AL), now 67.1%.
Damn, this has been a LOT of fun. Chart of the odds all year. FYI: I think I can now admit I was very wrong about if the Jays should call up Yesavage and toss him to the wolves this year.
Btw, for fun I checked world series champion odds at FanGraphs - pre-season 2.5% for the Jays (before the Toyko series that LAD played in, climbed to 2.8% by opening day), April 30th 1.3%, May 31st 1.8%, June 30th 3.2%, July 31st 7.6%, August 31st 8.7%, Sept 30th 10.3% (#1 in AL East, #2 in AL), now 67.1%.
Damn, this has been a LOT of fun. Chart of the odds all year. FYI: I think I can now admit I was very wrong about if the Jays should call up Yesavage and toss him to the wolves this year.
If the Blue Jays beat LA, it will send a powerful message to LA’s star Japanese players who turned down Toronto’s competitive offers to them (Ohtani, Yamamoto, Sasaki). Maybe in the future a Japanese star player will choose Toronto instead of heading to the west coast.
I get it John - Bo had a crazy off year last year, and vladdy had a mediocre (for him) regular season this year, but if I ask myself how good these players are right now, especially considering what Vladdy has shown us this postseason, i have a hard time putting those 92/93 trios far ahead of them, if at all.
Season+Playoffs wRC+
2025: Springer 163, Vladdy 149, Bichette 134
1993: Olerud 176, Molitor 151, Alomar 143
1992: Winfield 137, Alomar 136, Olerud 128
questions we can ask:
- were Olerud/Molitor/Alomar really that good in 1993, when all 3 had career best years together?
- do we really think the defensive difference at 2B/1B/DH is that significant?
- of all 7 of those hitters, is there really any doubt that you choose Vladdy at the plate over all of them?
Season+Playoffs wRC+
2025: Springer 163, Vladdy 149, Bichette 134
1993: Olerud 176, Molitor 151, Alomar 143
1992: Winfield 137, Alomar 136, Olerud 128
questions we can ask:
- were Olerud/Molitor/Alomar really that good in 1993, when all 3 had career best years together?
- do we really think the defensive difference at 2B/1B/DH is that significant?
- of all 7 of those hitters, is there really any doubt that you choose Vladdy at the plate over all of them?
I've never heard one person say "I like Ross Atkins".
I'm not prepared to go that far - he's a guy in a suit - but I have always found his monumental awkwardness and discomfort before the cameras to be a little endearing.
I'm not prepared to go that far - he's a guy in a suit - but I have always found his monumental awkwardness and discomfort before the cameras to be a little endearing.
You could argue that both Atkins and Schneider, while pretty green at earlier stages of their current roles, have matured and become very competent in those positions.
I've always supported Shapiro. I've always supported AA. Atkins is a blend of JPR BS talk and AA good moves but with the question of "did he really make it or was it Shapiro?" AA we know he did all his own moves. It's hard to "like" Atkins the way we liked AA and Givbons because they were both off the charts likeable compared to Schneider and Atkins who are proving to both be more capable. If we can go from AA to Atkins and say they both did great jobs then everyone wins.
I agree on most everything you said dalimon. I have said in the past I really like Shapiro, never Atkins.
I think the FO deserve a lot of credit. This was their vision in 2023 when they went all in on defense and contact. For a multitude of reasons it did not materialize in 2023-24, but they took 2024 on the chin, made significant development changes because of it (Popkins, Lehr, etc), and doubled down on what they believed in. Now here we are, either one win away from baseball immortality or going as far as a team can go if they end up on the short end. Truly remarkable.
I don't like or dislike either of them, I've always thought they were above average at their jobs, not great or awful. They've got a really big payroll that has let them get away with some mistakes, and it's finally fallen into place this year for them after a decade. And I will always maintain that this team doesn't come anywhere close to doing what they're doing right now without Vladdy getting signed to that deal. Everything i know about Shapiro and Atkins tells me that that deal was not their preference, and goes directly against everything they stand for as managers (which i disliked) and that ownership stepped in, but i might be wrong about that, and we'll never know for sure.
the good thing is that now that even if they weren't eager to give Vladdy that contract, the lesson they've learned since signing him is a hard one to unlearn.
the good thing is that now that even if they weren't eager to give Vladdy that contract, the lesson they've learned since signing him is a hard one to unlearn.
What a joy of a season, no matter the ending.
I was higher on Yesavage than just about anybody because I knew that some pitchers (really good ones) have a chance to dominate at age 22 or 23. It doesn't happen often, but I thought that Yesavage was one of the ones who could. Nonetheless, the way the organization handled him was everything you could ask for. They were learning from him as much as he was learning from them. It's a beautiful thing.
I have said before that this team reminds me of a great Cardinals team- excellent team defence, a long sequence offence based on players who put the ball in play, decent team speed and enough power to have that as a weapon. The merging of diverse talents into a cohesive whole based on a team philosophy is what management should be doing. All hail Branch Rickey.
"After last night I'm thinking, could Yesavage be that guy?"
He HAS BEEN that guy.
He HAS BEEN that guy.
The single thing that stands out about all else in the Shapiro era is the massive increase in payroll. Everything else is close to irrelevant. I don't know exactly how much credit Shapiro deserves for that but I believe quite a bit. As talent evaluators and club builders, I've always been in the camp of their being "decent" - you can do better and you can do much much worse. In my view, one should dislike Atkins if for no reason other than his post "Berrios Affair" presser - which was an awful display of "leadership".
A couple things I love from last night:
- Trey makes his one mistake to Kike, then immediately responds with the instantly famous Ohtani one-knee ugly K to end the inning....and then Varsho immediately leads off the next inning with a triple*, and of course scores to answer right back. This team knows big moments.
- the dugout handshake line for Trey after the 7th when they knew he was done for the game. I've watched it so many times already. The mixture of awe, pride, love, and excitement for all of them as they congratulate him is just amazing. And then after all the handshakes he gets down to the end of the dugout where the last guy is waiting for him with wide open arms and a huge smile - team leader and mvp vladdy guerrero - and they have a tear-jerking big man hug.
and i'm also a bit awestruck how this team seems to be able to turn really bad things into good things in the end....
- that heartbreaking 18 inning loss seemed like a terrible thing at the time, but it seems to now have actually worked out in the jays favour - psychologically hanging in there with the mighty dodgers even with a AAAA lineup out there for 9 innings seems to have told both teams who was actually the better team here, and then physically that game seems to have completely wiped out this old dodgers team - catcher Smith most especially, who seems completely beat behind the plate, but also a guy like 35yr old Freeman who hasn't looked remotely threatening since that game winnning HR. Meanwhile, most of the key jays got to rest half that game and look fresh and ready to go.
- Everyone talks about how Yesavage might just be a trick pitcher, who will get got the more times hitters see him. And this still might be true I dunno. BUT, Yesavage's tough game 1 where he simply didn't have his best pitch at all, and still managed to battle decently, seems to have set him up for this dominant game 5 performance. Freeman was saying after the game how they picked a "lane" against Yesavage - wait on the high stuff, and spit on antyhing low, because he couldn't at all locate low in game 1 with his splitter - but that plan completely backfired once that splitter and slider started nailing the bottom of the zone. Game 1 actually lulled them into overconfidence because they thought they had saw his stuff and it wasn't impressive - and then in game 5 he had his A+ stuff and they had never seen it before and were completely unprepared.
two things that looked likedisast ers at the time turned into weapons for good. god i love this team. so so so many good things to enjoy.
This last thing I'll mention I want to be clear i'm not saying that the Dodgers are defeated, or even close to it. We could lose both games no problem and I wouldn't be at all surprised. BUT, I have to say that it's kinda shocking just how defeated the entire dodgers dugout LOOKED in this one. Right from the start. It's like their last psychological defenses have been broken down one by one. They came into the series thinking that they would roll, and then got beat down in game 1. But that's just one game no problem that can happen to anyone, we'll still roll this series, and then bam the Yamamoto game and everything is fine again. The jays will likely buckle now and even if they don't we still have too much for them to handle. And then game 3 comes from and they're locked in this titanic struggle and tbh get outplayed by the jays second stringers and are lucky to win. But it should be a devestating loss for the Jays and Ohtani is on the mount next game so for sure now the jays will buckle. And then the jays beat them comprehensively in game 4, from top to bottom, and the dodgers seem legit phsycially exhausted from game 3 and aren't having any fun at all, especially in front of a depressed and dissapppointed home crowd. And then comes game 5 and Snell for sure will bounce back and we still got his and then BOOM BOOM two huge HR to start the game and you can just see the shell-shock on their faces. From manager to star to star to star.
Now this can all change in a minute - they get a huge day of rest now, they have yamamoto going tomorrow, and it might actually help to play in front of an energized skydome crowd instead of grumbling and quiet home crowd. Dodgers are a great team and could win this no problem. But, still, I'm just surprised by how they looked in the dugout last night. They did not look like a team that had any belief at all.
- Trey makes his one mistake to Kike, then immediately responds with the instantly famous Ohtani one-knee ugly K to end the inning....and then Varsho immediately leads off the next inning with a triple*, and of course scores to answer right back. This team knows big moments.
- the dugout handshake line for Trey after the 7th when they knew he was done for the game. I've watched it so many times already. The mixture of awe, pride, love, and excitement for all of them as they congratulate him is just amazing. And then after all the handshakes he gets down to the end of the dugout where the last guy is waiting for him with wide open arms and a huge smile - team leader and mvp vladdy guerrero - and they have a tear-jerking big man hug.
and i'm also a bit awestruck how this team seems to be able to turn really bad things into good things in the end....
- that heartbreaking 18 inning loss seemed like a terrible thing at the time, but it seems to now have actually worked out in the jays favour - psychologically hanging in there with the mighty dodgers even with a AAAA lineup out there for 9 innings seems to have told both teams who was actually the better team here, and then physically that game seems to have completely wiped out this old dodgers team - catcher Smith most especially, who seems completely beat behind the plate, but also a guy like 35yr old Freeman who hasn't looked remotely threatening since that game winnning HR. Meanwhile, most of the key jays got to rest half that game and look fresh and ready to go.
- Everyone talks about how Yesavage might just be a trick pitcher, who will get got the more times hitters see him. And this still might be true I dunno. BUT, Yesavage's tough game 1 where he simply didn't have his best pitch at all, and still managed to battle decently, seems to have set him up for this dominant game 5 performance. Freeman was saying after the game how they picked a "lane" against Yesavage - wait on the high stuff, and spit on antyhing low, because he couldn't at all locate low in game 1 with his splitter - but that plan completely backfired once that splitter and slider started nailing the bottom of the zone. Game 1 actually lulled them into overconfidence because they thought they had saw his stuff and it wasn't impressive - and then in game 5 he had his A+ stuff and they had never seen it before and were completely unprepared.
two things that looked likedisast ers at the time turned into weapons for good. god i love this team. so so so many good things to enjoy.
This last thing I'll mention I want to be clear i'm not saying that the Dodgers are defeated, or even close to it. We could lose both games no problem and I wouldn't be at all surprised. BUT, I have to say that it's kinda shocking just how defeated the entire dodgers dugout LOOKED in this one. Right from the start. It's like their last psychological defenses have been broken down one by one. They came into the series thinking that they would roll, and then got beat down in game 1. But that's just one game no problem that can happen to anyone, we'll still roll this series, and then bam the Yamamoto game and everything is fine again. The jays will likely buckle now and even if they don't we still have too much for them to handle. And then game 3 comes from and they're locked in this titanic struggle and tbh get outplayed by the jays second stringers and are lucky to win. But it should be a devestating loss for the Jays and Ohtani is on the mount next game so for sure now the jays will buckle. And then the jays beat them comprehensively in game 4, from top to bottom, and the dodgers seem legit phsycially exhausted from game 3 and aren't having any fun at all, especially in front of a depressed and dissapppointed home crowd. And then comes game 5 and Snell for sure will bounce back and we still got his and then BOOM BOOM two huge HR to start the game and you can just see the shell-shock on their faces. From manager to star to star to star.
Now this can all change in a minute - they get a huge day of rest now, they have yamamoto going tomorrow, and it might actually help to play in front of an energized skydome crowd instead of grumbling and quiet home crowd. Dodgers are a great team and could win this no problem. But, still, I'm just surprised by how they looked in the dugout last night. They did not look like a team that had any belief at all.
I attended the festivities in Dodger Stadium last night, and allow me to say one thing - Jays fans at the Dome are way louder, even when our team is down 3-1. What an experience from start to finish. Chavez Ravine was filled with Jays fans.
>of all 7 of those hitters, is there really any doubt that you choose Vladdy at the plate over all of them?
I'll take 1993 Olerud any day.. 0.473 OBP..
I'll take 1993 Olerud any day.. 0.473 OBP..
would you really tho? Olerud flirted with .400 for a while that year, thanks in part to a sky high babip, but he tumbled down pretty hard at the end, with his babip dropping to a still sky-high .375 by the end of the year for a career year .363avg and 179wrc+. And then in the playoffs he continued his late season good-not-greatness and with a .289babip he put up a 129wrc+.
as good as Olerud was, he was never that fearsome MVP bat that Vladdy is right now imo.
as good as Olerud was, he was never that fearsome MVP bat that Vladdy is right now imo.
WS Stats
1B Vladdy 28pa, 212wrc+ ---- DH Ohtani 26pa, 246wrc+
DH Springer 12pa 100wrc+ --- 1B Freeman 25pa, 135wrc+
2B Bichette 18pa, 107wrc+ --- SS Betts 26pa, -3wrc+
C Alejandro 24pa, 196wrc+ --- C Smith 24pa, 105wrc+
RF Barger 18pa, 226wrc+ --- RF Teoscar 24pa, 135wrc+
CF Varsho 26pa, 126wrc+ --- 3B Muncy 23pa, 72wrc+
LF Lukes 18pa, 87wrc+ ------ LF Kike 20pa, 47wrc+
3B Clement 23pa, 81wrc+ --- 2B Edman 23pa, 17wrc+
SS Gimenez 23pa, 12wrc+ --- CF Pages 15pa, -74wrc+
OF Schneider 10pa, 134wrc+ - OF Call 8pa, 21wrc+
IF Falefa 17pa, -51wrc+ ----- IF Rojas 3pa, -100wrc+
OF Straw 8pa, -100wrc+ ----- OF Dean 0pa
1B France 4pa, 37wrc+ ------ IF Kim 0pa
C Heineman 3pa, -100wrc+ -- C Rortvedt 0pa
RH Yesavage 5.5ip/gm, 60era-, 54fip- ---- RH Yamamoto 9.0ip/gm, 24era-, 41fip-
RH Bieber 5.3ip/gm, 41era-, 87fip- ------ RH Ohtani 6.0ip/gm, 143era-, 89fip-
RH Gausman 6.7ip/gm, 99era-, 124fip- --- RH Glasnow 4.7ip/gm, 92era-, 133fip-
RH Scherzer 4.3ip/gm, 153era-, 201fip- --- LH Snell 5.8ip/gm, 184era-, 155fip-
RH Hoffman 3.7ip, 0era-, 80fip- ------ RH Sasaki 1.7ip, 0era-, 157fip-
RH Varland 3.0ip, 221era-, 73fip- ----- RH Treinen 1.7ip, 129era-, 74fip-
RH Bassitt 4.0ip, 0era-, 31fip- ------- RH Klein 5.0ip, 0era-, 56fip-
LH Lauer 5.7ip, 0era-, 112fip- -------- LH Dreyer 2.1ip, 0era-, 74fip-
RH Dominguez 3.3ip, 66era-, 175fip- - RH Henriquez 2.0ip, 0era-, 132fip-
LH Fluharty 1.7ip, 133era-, 16fip- ----- LH Wrobleski 2.7ip, 0era-, 40fip-
RH Fisher 3.3ip, 133era-, 175fip- ------ RH Sheehan 3.0ip, 215era-, 122fip-
LH Little 1.0ip, 221era-, 411fip- ------ LH Banda 3.0ip, 430era-, 296fip-
1B Vladdy 28pa, 212wrc+ ---- DH Ohtani 26pa, 246wrc+
DH Springer 12pa 100wrc+ --- 1B Freeman 25pa, 135wrc+
2B Bichette 18pa, 107wrc+ --- SS Betts 26pa, -3wrc+
C Alejandro 24pa, 196wrc+ --- C Smith 24pa, 105wrc+
RF Barger 18pa, 226wrc+ --- RF Teoscar 24pa, 135wrc+
CF Varsho 26pa, 126wrc+ --- 3B Muncy 23pa, 72wrc+
LF Lukes 18pa, 87wrc+ ------ LF Kike 20pa, 47wrc+
3B Clement 23pa, 81wrc+ --- 2B Edman 23pa, 17wrc+
SS Gimenez 23pa, 12wrc+ --- CF Pages 15pa, -74wrc+
OF Schneider 10pa, 134wrc+ - OF Call 8pa, 21wrc+
IF Falefa 17pa, -51wrc+ ----- IF Rojas 3pa, -100wrc+
OF Straw 8pa, -100wrc+ ----- OF Dean 0pa
1B France 4pa, 37wrc+ ------ IF Kim 0pa
C Heineman 3pa, -100wrc+ -- C Rortvedt 0pa
RH Yesavage 5.5ip/gm, 60era-, 54fip- ---- RH Yamamoto 9.0ip/gm, 24era-, 41fip-
RH Bieber 5.3ip/gm, 41era-, 87fip- ------ RH Ohtani 6.0ip/gm, 143era-, 89fip-
RH Gausman 6.7ip/gm, 99era-, 124fip- --- RH Glasnow 4.7ip/gm, 92era-, 133fip-
RH Scherzer 4.3ip/gm, 153era-, 201fip- --- LH Snell 5.8ip/gm, 184era-, 155fip-
RH Hoffman 3.7ip, 0era-, 80fip- ------ RH Sasaki 1.7ip, 0era-, 157fip-
RH Varland 3.0ip, 221era-, 73fip- ----- RH Treinen 1.7ip, 129era-, 74fip-
RH Bassitt 4.0ip, 0era-, 31fip- ------- RH Klein 5.0ip, 0era-, 56fip-
LH Lauer 5.7ip, 0era-, 112fip- -------- LH Dreyer 2.1ip, 0era-, 74fip-
RH Dominguez 3.3ip, 66era-, 175fip- - RH Henriquez 2.0ip, 0era-, 132fip-
LH Fluharty 1.7ip, 133era-, 16fip- ----- LH Wrobleski 2.7ip, 0era-, 40fip-
RH Fisher 3.3ip, 133era-, 175fip- ------ RH Sheehan 3.0ip, 215era-, 122fip-
LH Little 1.0ip, 221era-, 411fip- ------ LH Banda 3.0ip, 430era-, 296fip-
And I will always maintain that this team doesn't come anywhere close to doing what they're doing right now without Vladdy getting signed to that deal.
It's interesting that locking up Vlad this spring was so intertwined with the 2025 Jays' fortunes. But apparently the same doesn't apply to Bo as there has been next-to-no discussion in the media that this is his walk year during the historic run.
The next game or two has a very good chance to be the last ever for Bo in a Toronto uniform. And we may have already seen the last of Bo as a Jays SS.
well, Vlad was definitely the more important sign, and his re-signing always made Bo's re-signing more likely too. And makes signing more good FAs more likely going forward. That's part of what made the vlad signing so crucial.
but Bo's not going anywhere imo.
but Bo's not going anywhere imo.
the question of "did he really make it or was it Shapiro?"
It's kind of a weird question that has been hung on this organization ever since Shapiro and Atkins came on the scene. Being a simple, trusting soul, I always figured that everyone - Shapiro, Atkins, Schneider - has their very own, well-defined job and that job is so big, so encompassing, and so consuming that they simply don't have the time to do anyone else's job as well.
I also suspect that the biggest voice in anyone's ear comes from the guy below in the organizational hierarchy. Not the guy above. That guy can fire you, but he can't do your job for you. He can't even help very much, if at all.
It's kind of a weird question that has been hung on this organization ever since Shapiro and Atkins came on the scene. Being a simple, trusting soul, I always figured that everyone - Shapiro, Atkins, Schneider - has their very own, well-defined job and that job is so big, so encompassing, and so consuming that they simply don't have the time to do anyone else's job as well.
I also suspect that the biggest voice in anyone's ear comes from the guy below in the organizational hierarchy. Not the guy above. That guy can fire you, but he can't do your job for you. He can't even help very much, if at all.
The single thing that stands out about all else in the Shapiro era is the massive increase in payroll. Everything else is close to irrelevant."
I think the renovations are a pretty big deal as well. Jays have apparently some of the best player facilities in baseballz the stadium is much nicer overall, and Dunedin also is amazing.
I think the renovations are a pretty big deal as well. Jays have apparently some of the best player facilities in baseballz the stadium is much nicer overall, and Dunedin also is amazing.
even if they weren't eager to give Vladdy that contract
Well, someone probably said - the end of this contract is probably going to be as ugly as the end of Miguel Cabrera's deal.
And then Atkins said to Shapiro - I'll be 66 years old by then, and you'll be 72. It's not likely it's going to be our problem.
Well, someone probably said - the end of this contract is probably going to be as ugly as the end of Miguel Cabrera's deal.
And then Atkins said to Shapiro - I'll be 66 years old by then, and you'll be 72. It's not likely it's going to be our problem.
Jays have apparently some of the best player facilities in baseball
There was an extensive piece about that quite recently that I forgot to mark or link or whatever. (It may have been on the Sportsnet website, but I'm not sure.) Kiner-Falefa, who has practically become an evangelist for the Blue Jay Way, was talking at great length about the underground complex, stretching from home plate to the left field corner, and all the aids for hitters in particular (hasn't helped IKF all that much since he got back, sad to say.) They analyze your swing from the night before, and from that they tell you exactly what you need to work on in the weight room the next day. Stuff like that.
Game done changed.
There was an extensive piece about that quite recently that I forgot to mark or link or whatever. (It may have been on the Sportsnet website, but I'm not sure.) Kiner-Falefa, who has practically become an evangelist for the Blue Jay Way, was talking at great length about the underground complex, stretching from home plate to the left field corner, and all the aids for hitters in particular (hasn't helped IKF all that much since he got back, sad to say.) They analyze your swing from the night before, and from that they tell you exactly what you need to work on in the weight room the next day. Stuff like that.
Game done changed.
Who's the WS MVP so far???
Our good friend WPA says that of course it's Vladd... nope, it's Tre... it's Eric Lauer?
Our good friend WPA says that of course it's Vladd... nope, it's Tre... it's Eric Lauer?
In all seriousness. I've mentioned this before, but I've never heard one person say "I like Ross Atkins". He's made moves people have liked, yes. But it's nothing like AA, who many people (myself included), were willing to say they actually liked, and in some cases even loved, as a GM.
This is very much retroactive thinking. I've posted on most of the Jays message boards and have a good memory for this stuff. Anthopoulos had more built in support because he was Canadian and came up from the bottom of the organization so he had an endearing story about his rise to the role, but heading into that 2015 trade deadline the general consensus was that he was a failure and needed to be fired. It wasn't until the team went on that run in the second half and in the playoffs that the fan impression on him changed and cemented itself to what it is now. Before that he had several years of failed moves and strategies that led nowhere. Most people forget that he became the GM in 2009 - that is a lot of baseball seasons before 2015 when it finally produced his first and only playoff appearance. To pretend like he was universally loved is incorrect: none of his rosters prior to 2015 had won more than 85 games.
Regardless of what the Pythagorean record was at the time, there is a split reality where that "~.500 record-at-the-deadline" Jays 2015 team never goes on a big run leading to the playoffs and Anthopoulos is justifiably fired without a single peep or complaint by anyone in Canada. What's funny is that under that reality Atkins would be looked at considerably more favorably than he has been to date because he would have entered the job as a ray of hope following a failure. But it was the opposite: Atkins (and Shapiro) immediately stepped in as the villains because they followed the hero, and that is a huge reason why the general fanbase has had such animosity towards them, regardless of the fact that their tenure has in fact been a success even prior to this World Series run (they literally have the ~3rd or 4th best record in the AL since 2020, but people like to make themselves believe that the results have been poor when really it has just been a few bad showings in highly unpredictable best-of-3 Wild Card appearances.
But the Toronto market is one of the most blatant bandwagon sports markets in North America, so expect the narrative on Ross Atkins (and Shapiro) to shift dramatically after this season, especially if they win the World Series. Just like it did for Anthopoulos post-2015. Everyone who hated all of their moves will conveniently forget about that, just like the same people who were calling for Anthopoulos to be fired prior to that magical run became his strongest supporters after he chose to leave the organization. That is how it goes in Toronto, just like how now all of a sudden everyone in Canada is now an adamant and die-hard Jays fan despite the fact that they couldn't name 3 players on the roster prior to a few weeks ago.
Actually, I’ve found that the bandwagon Blue Jays fans, while excited about the team’s success, readily admit to being bandwagon fans.
Let's put an end to all AA talk. Here here, nobody will contest that AA and Shapiro together would make the best tandem, right? AA's achilles heel was Beeston and Shapiro's was his top lieutenant who couldn't do the job while Shapiro was distracted with the home field renovations... or something like that.
All fans are the same. No fanbase has a monopoly on hardcore fans or bandwagoners.
Unsurprisingly there are suddenly mutterings of this Dodgers team not actually being that good a team, and the Jays getting lucky to face a weaker world series opponent.
Of course this is extremely similar group as last year's Dodgers who smashed the Yankees in the world series, but admittedly with one single difference - last year's middling rotation has been upgraded to one of the best rotations ever.
Last year ---> This year
DH Ohtani ---> DH Ohtani
SS Betts ---> SS Betts
1B Freeman ---> 1B Freeman
C Smith ---> C Smith
3B Muncy ---> 3B Muncy
RF Teoscar ---> RF Teoscar
LF Kike ---> LF Kike
CF Edman ---> 2B Edman
2B Lux ---> CF Pages
UT Taylor ---> UT Call
OF Pages ---> IF Kim
IF Rojas ---> IF Rojas
OF Kiermaier ---> OF Dean
C Barnes ---> C Rortvedt
so one difference in the starting lineup - the #9 hitter. Their #9 hitter was terrible last year and again terrible this year, but different.
the bench is also mostly different, but the same talentwise, and neither bench plays anyways.
Bullpen
LH Vesia ---> RH Sasaki
RH Treinen ---> RH Treinen
LH Banda ---> LH Banda
RH Kopech ---> LH Dreyer
RH Hudson ---> RH Henriquez
RH Honeywell ---> RH Klein
RH Brasier ---> RH Sheehan
RH Knack ---> LH Wrobleski
RH Graterol ---> LH Kershaw
I guess we could argue here but it looks like a pretty similar (unimpressive) group here.
and then the rotation, with their regular season numbers from the same year:
RH Yamamoto 18gms, 5.0ip/gm, 73era-, 63fip- ---> RH Yamamoto 30gms, 5.8ip/gm, 59era-, 70fip-
RH Flaherty 28gms, 5.8ip/gm, 78era-, 84fip- ---> LH Snell 11gms, 5.6ip/gm, 56era-, 64fip-
RH Buehler 16gms, 4.7ip/gm, 131era-, 132fip- ---> RH Glasnow 18gms, 5.0ip/gm, 76era-, 88fip-
RH Casparius 3gms, 2.8ip/gm, 53era-, 42fip- ---> RH Ohtani 13gms, 3.4ip/gm, 69era-, 46fip-
just a massive upgrade.
And not only is this year's Dodgers team clearly much better on paper than last year, but they showed it in the NL playoffs too - last year they had two epic struggles to beat the Padres 3-2 and the Mets 4-2 in two very close series, whereas this year they flew through 3 series only losing one game, with a 9-1 record.
Of course this is extremely similar group as last year's Dodgers who smashed the Yankees in the world series, but admittedly with one single difference - last year's middling rotation has been upgraded to one of the best rotations ever.
Last year ---> This year
DH Ohtani ---> DH Ohtani
SS Betts ---> SS Betts
1B Freeman ---> 1B Freeman
C Smith ---> C Smith
3B Muncy ---> 3B Muncy
RF Teoscar ---> RF Teoscar
LF Kike ---> LF Kike
CF Edman ---> 2B Edman
2B Lux ---> CF Pages
UT Taylor ---> UT Call
OF Pages ---> IF Kim
IF Rojas ---> IF Rojas
OF Kiermaier ---> OF Dean
C Barnes ---> C Rortvedt
so one difference in the starting lineup - the #9 hitter. Their #9 hitter was terrible last year and again terrible this year, but different.
the bench is also mostly different, but the same talentwise, and neither bench plays anyways.
Bullpen
LH Vesia ---> RH Sasaki
RH Treinen ---> RH Treinen
LH Banda ---> LH Banda
RH Kopech ---> LH Dreyer
RH Hudson ---> RH Henriquez
RH Honeywell ---> RH Klein
RH Brasier ---> RH Sheehan
RH Knack ---> LH Wrobleski
RH Graterol ---> LH Kershaw
I guess we could argue here but it looks like a pretty similar (unimpressive) group here.
and then the rotation, with their regular season numbers from the same year:
RH Yamamoto 18gms, 5.0ip/gm, 73era-, 63fip- ---> RH Yamamoto 30gms, 5.8ip/gm, 59era-, 70fip-
RH Flaherty 28gms, 5.8ip/gm, 78era-, 84fip- ---> LH Snell 11gms, 5.6ip/gm, 56era-, 64fip-
RH Buehler 16gms, 4.7ip/gm, 131era-, 132fip- ---> RH Glasnow 18gms, 5.0ip/gm, 76era-, 88fip-
RH Casparius 3gms, 2.8ip/gm, 53era-, 42fip- ---> RH Ohtani 13gms, 3.4ip/gm, 69era-, 46fip-
just a massive upgrade.
And not only is this year's Dodgers team clearly much better on paper than last year, but they showed it in the NL playoffs too - last year they had two epic struggles to beat the Padres 3-2 and the Mets 4-2 in two very close series, whereas this year they flew through 3 series only losing one game, with a 9-1 record.
Shi Davidi
@ShiDavidi
·
40m
John Schneider said George Springer "was right on the fence" of starting in Game 5 and "he probably could have. I was really juggling what's best for him, what's best for the team ... He was close and he was ready to come in."
Shi Davidi
@ShiDavidi
Schneider believes the extra rest should help Springer and "hopefully he's good to go tomorrow," when the test will be "making sure he feels comfortable and confident, and not just for one at-bat."
"He's kind of checked every box physically so far, so see how tomorrow goes."
@ShiDavidi
·
40m
John Schneider said George Springer "was right on the fence" of starting in Game 5 and "he probably could have. I was really juggling what's best for him, what's best for the team ... He was close and he was ready to come in."
Shi Davidi
@ShiDavidi
Schneider believes the extra rest should help Springer and "hopefully he's good to go tomorrow," when the test will be "making sure he feels comfortable and confident, and not just for one at-bat."
"He's kind of checked every box physically so far, so see how tomorrow goes."
Its really not the same. It was the same thing with the Raptors when they had their moment. Toronto has a special ability to go from who-cares to class-leading environment at the flip of a switch. I'm not sure if you are following the US national media reporting, but they are amazed by the home-field atmosphere this playoffs - nobody else has come even close. Sure you will probably argue that its boosted by the fact that its been 10 years since 2015, but if you look at Seattle which is a big metro market and has an even bigger drought of noteworthiness, the fanfare was not even close during that series.
The Dodgers averaged ~14,000 more in home attendance during the regular season, and those 3 games in LA were tame by comparison to the games in Toronto in games 1 and 2 and now game 6.
The Dodgers averaged ~14,000 more in home attendance during the regular season, and those 3 games in LA were tame by comparison to the games in Toronto in games 1 and 2 and now game 6.
The Jays could be, or are, the better team and still lose the WS. Yamamoto and Ohtani could carry the Dodgers on their backs to a win.
I definitely think Glasnow gets maybe 2 innings rest of the ways. LA I would expect to use Yamamoto tomorrow, Ohtani for possible game 7 and Roli Sasaki for both games.
If it's a close game tomorrow I would use Gausman, Bassitt, Dominguez and Hoffman. For possible game 7 I would use Varland then Dominguez to start then Scherzer then Bieber then Yesavage.
If it's a close game tomorrow I would use Gausman, Bassitt, Dominguez and Hoffman. For possible game 7 I would use Varland then Dominguez to start then Scherzer then Bieber then Yesavage.
LA crowd reminds me of the Leafs crowd
Dodgers fans were always notorious for leaving in the seventh inning. LA traffic... I don't know if that's still true.
Dodgers fans were always notorious for leaving in the seventh inning. LA traffic... I don't know if that's still true.
they kind of have to use Ohtani at least as the opener in game 7, no? that way he can keep on DHing the rest of the game?
The LA traffic thing is real though. I went to a game staying in the Valley and we gave ourselves more than an hour and still missed first 2 innings. Did see a car on fire on the side of the highway though. Also the parking lot there is like a city of its own and can take forever to get out. Still, World Series, you make sure you get there on time and you don't leave early!
AA was a great PR person.
Atkins might be autism spectrum gifted.
AA seemed to be doing some of Beeston's duties.
There's always a doubt that Shapiro is doing some of Atkins' work.
AA wasn't given the resources to fully compete and didn't leave much when he left.
Shapiro and Atkins made it clear that they were promised resources well beyond those they had in Cleveland.
In retrospect, the scouting and development were poor under AA and took a long time to improve.
The new hitting coaches are probably not as good as they seem, but the previous ones clearly didn't connect with the players.
Also, the covid pandemic hit the Jays harder than other teams.
Finally, the current front office takes pride in finding guys who are good teammates. AA wasn't afraid to bet on guys with known issues.
Atkins might be autism spectrum gifted.
AA seemed to be doing some of Beeston's duties.
There's always a doubt that Shapiro is doing some of Atkins' work.
AA wasn't given the resources to fully compete and didn't leave much when he left.
Shapiro and Atkins made it clear that they were promised resources well beyond those they had in Cleveland.
In retrospect, the scouting and development were poor under AA and took a long time to improve.
The new hitting coaches are probably not as good as they seem, but the previous ones clearly didn't connect with the players.
Also, the covid pandemic hit the Jays harder than other teams.
Finally, the current front office takes pride in finding guys who are good teammates. AA wasn't afraid to bet on guys with known issues.
Heh, I came from the Valley too Glevin. I said to my buddy that it literally took longer from the time I saw the Dodger Stadium arch for parking than it would to get to the Dome riding the subway from North York. We left the Valley at 3 and it still felt like we cut it close. Absolutely brutal.
Toronto traffic is worse followed by Montreal than Los Angeles. Going anywhere from the Valley is one of the worst commutes in LA but overall it's easier to get around because they have multiple hwys you can use (except for the valley because you have to into the valley).
If I want to drive downtown I have to take the DVP or else drive all the way past the city and take the 427 down so really only one way to go unless I take the backstreets. In LA I could take 2-3 different hwys to pretty much get to anywhere I wanted and the backstreets are twice as wide. No chance traffic is worse in LA unless your counting the drive to the beach Sat morning in Newport.
If I want to drive downtown I have to take the DVP or else drive all the way past the city and take the 427 down so really only one way to go unless I take the backstreets. In LA I could take 2-3 different hwys to pretty much get to anywhere I wanted and the backstreets are twice as wide. No chance traffic is worse in LA unless your counting the drive to the beach Sat morning in Newport.
The key with Yamamoto is to get to him early, not let him settle in... and take the air out of the rest of the team like in Game 5.
I wouldn't be surprised if his approach is completely different this game. But with any luck the pressure and crowd will get to him... probably not given his pedigree but one can hope.
I wouldn't be surprised if his approach is completely different this game. But with any luck the pressure and crowd will get to him... probably not given his pedigree but one can hope.