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Next up, it's the Tigers, who were awarded the AL Central title by acclamation last winter. After a sluggish first half, they're starting to play up to the hype. They called up Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante from their NL affiliate on Monday, and they look good to go for the second half. The Jays will dodge Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer, but they'll still have to navigate a lineup featuring several high OBP figures at the top.


This week's big news from the D is the latest marquee Marlins/Tigers trade. The Tigers patched two holes when they acquired righty Sanchez and familiar second baseman Infante. The Marlins received the Tigers' top pitching prospect, Jacob Turner, as well as catcher Rob Brantly and pitcher Brian Flynn. It's a clear buyers' trade for the Tigers and seems to have been met with widespread approval by their fans. Which, from my impartial position of relative ignorance, I agree with. Between Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Fister and blister-riddled lefty Drew Smyly, the Tigers' rotation is in good shape for the medium term. (Insert disclaimer about lessons learned from the 2012 Blue Jays here.) In the short-term, there was a hole: Turner himself, who'd been mauled in three big-league starts and had a sub-2 K/BB at AAA Toledo. Sanchez is a very safe bet to remedy that hole, and though Turner is talented and fending well for himself in the high minors at 21, the short-term gain easily justifies the loss from the Tigers' perspective. (As to Brantly, same idea. With Alex Avila holding down the tools of ignorance, the Tigers don't have a desperate need for catching prospects in the high minors.) Sanchez is a 28-year-old impending free agent, and this trade - two useful rentals for a Turner package - is one data point illustrating the effect of the new free agent compensation scheme.

Infante figures to help the Tigers immensely. He's one of the more underrated players around, an erstwhile Detroit utilityman who's hitting for the most power of his career. He may not be an all-star, but Tigers' second basemen have hit .198/.283/.271 - such anemic production that barring injury Infante is almost certain to be a big improvement and might be an enormous one. The plan is for Infante to hit ninth against righties, second against lefties.

The Tigers are 9-4 since the break. They just took a tough loss in Cleveland, as Justin Verlander got hammered in the seventh inning and surrendered a two-run lead. After drilling the White Sox last weekend, Detroit has fallen back into second place.

Tonight, it's Rick Porcello. Like Henderson Alvarez, Porcello is a young righty with an outstanding fastball who in hindsight might have benefited from spending more time in the minors. Porcello signed a four-year big-league contract with the Tigers when he was drafted, and in his first year as a pro he was the 2008 Florida State League ERA champ at age 19. So the next year, he made the Tigers out of spring training. (In his big-league debut, he pitched opposite Ricky Romero. The Jays won.) Porcello is now 23, and this is his fourth season as a big-league SP.

Porcello has improved slightly and gradually. He has steadily increased his K rate and decreased his BB rate over the past four years. This year, his fastball velocity is up to 92, and he's induced a ton of popups while reducing his home run rate. Maybe the improved peripherals are the second-last phase of Porcello's development before he starts to really dominate hitters. But he still can't strand runners. One reason he has trouble stranding runners is that he can be run on; baserunners are 14/17 this year. Green lights for everyone tonight.

Saturday, it's Sanchez, who started 132 games for the Marlins, fourth-most in that franchise's proud history, just ahead of A.J. Burnett and Brad Penny. He throws his heater and sinker in the low 90s and uses a variety of trash - slider, change, curveball. Everything about his profile screams "solid pitcher."  Oddly for a pitcher with such a deep bag of tricks, Sanchez's splits are extremely backwards this year: .288/.329/.485 vs RH, .229/.287/.333 vs LH. (For his career, he has a very slight reverse split: .255/.319/.408 vs RH, .253/.332/.369 vs LH. Suggests he tends to handle LH batters with more care than righties, no?) Lawrie is 3/3 against Sanchez with a triple. Rasmus is 1/8 with 5 K and a walk.

Sunday, it's Douglas Wildes FIster. 6'8" four-pitch righty with a good sinker who doesn't walk people. He's come back to earth a bit this year, with a 4.03 ERA, due largely to homer rate and BABIP increases. Fister's velocity jumped temporarily last year, and some have contended that was crucial to his career year, but his average fastball per Fangraphs is back down to 88.5 this year. He's been battling rib injuries throughout the season, and I assume he's not quite playing at full strength. Fister is inducing more swinging strikes and groundballs, and he's giving up more liners. (Incidentally, looking at the Tigers' lineup, I suspect Detroit has a high park factor for line drives.) Fister has a 224-point OPS split this year and pitches from an angle that just looks tough on righties. So who on the Jays has hit him? Obviously, Rajai Davis is 9/22, and Jeff Mathis is 3/6 with a double and two walks. Everybody else who's faced him has struggled. Go figure.

The closer is Jose Valverde, who's apparently moved to the "smoke and mirrors" phase of the Francisco Cordero closer career arc. He pitches around hitters, his out pitch is a splitter, and he's proven himself really hard to hit over the past few years. He leaves "overpowering" duties to his understudy Joaquin Benoit, righty killer Octavio Dotel (now on his 13th team), and 98-mph flamethrower Brayan Villarreal, all of whom have lofty strikeout totals. From the left side, the Tigers will throw struggling specialist Phil Coke, long man Duane Below, and Michigan native Darin Downs, no relation, who, between his hair, slowish delivery and mid-70s hammer, is such a dead ringer for Scott that you'll probably double-check that for yourself. Downs has forced his way to the show despite being hit in the head by a line drive in the minors.

Austin Jackson hits the ball extremely hard. If I had to guess who'll lead the AL in BABIP in 2013, I'd take him. Jackson has hit exactly zero infield flies this year, and he's started to add a bit of power: his 10 homers this year matches his career high. Throw in his above-average fielding stats three years running in a big centerfield, and you have an excellent player who's very well-suited to the Tigers' park.

Left fielder Quintin Berry and right fielder Brennan Boesch are struggling. Berry (who hasn't hit any infield flies, either) stormed out of the gate - he hit .318/.405/.436 before June 27, .244/319/.329 after. Berry is a speedster: he's 15 for 15 stealing bases, and he's dropped down 15 bunts, 7 of which turned into hits. Boesch has the kind of high-K, low-BB power hitter numbers that seem much more common from RH hitters, and he hasn't hit with enough power to be valuable. Lousy year, or fraudulent player? Who knows. His massive reverse splits from his rookie year haven't lasted; he's been better against RH pitchers over the past two years, like normal lefties. Tigers fans are starting to get excited about the impending return of Andy Dirks, which will push Boesch, Berry, or perhaps streaky DH Delmon Young out of an everyday gig.

OK, theoretical diversion time. When reverse splits and extreme splits collide! Suppose Boesch actually is something like his 2010 self, and his true talent OPS is .900 OPS vs LH, .600 vs RH. Boesch is up, and you can have either Octavio Dotel (kills righties, throws BP to lefties) or Randy Choate (vice versa) face him. Your only other option is Jeff Tam. Who you gonna call?

Home run derby champ Prince Fielder has zero home runs since the break. Curse! Actually, he's hitting .370/.474/.413. There are worse fates. Meanwhile, Fielder has released his own wine, which he is selling to benefit Detroit nonprofits: 2010 Prince Fielder Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. I'm no connoisseur, but I like how that rolls off the tongue.

Miguel Cabrera has picked up the longball slack by going deep six times. Cabrera has also fielded third base competently, according to the numbers - 0 DRS, -9 UZR/150. He's only made 9 errors. Open question whether he'd be hitting (even) better if he didn't have to carry the defensive load, and I'm sure Porcello, Fister and Sanchez are nonplussed by the revelation that their 3B is not horrendous but merely below average. But the doomsday scenarios don't seem to have materialized, and he is, of course, one of the absolute best hitters in the league.

Speaking of fielding stats, Jhonny Peralta is now an above-average fielder by the numbers, and over the years he's maintained his walks and power while shedding a few strikeouts. Jhonny Peralta: metaphor for sabermetric fashion?

Song to Advance Scout by: Attendance is up. Your move.


Advance Scout: Tigers, July 27-29 | 92 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
China fan - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#261207) #
Interesting comment by Farrell today: he suggests that Mathis might provide a "breath of fresh air" for Ricky Romero. That might actually be true, but it raises the question -- why didn't Farrell try it before JPA's injury?
Anders - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#261208) #
Huzzah, thanks Alex!
Paul D - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#261209) #
Lind scratched. Reason unknown.

Think Alvarez has any trade value.
Oceanbound - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#261210) #
Lind, Escobar out with back tightness. Davis the only man on the bench. Yay for the 8 man bullpen?
PeteMoss - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 06:53 PM EDT (#261211) #
Who needs a back-up... 9 man pen.
John Northey - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#261212) #
With Mathis we DO have a 9backup man pen.
Dr B - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#261213) #
Interesting comment by Farrell today: he suggests that Mathis might provide a "breath of fresh air" for Ricky Romero. That might actually be true, but it raises the question -- why didn't Farrell try it before JPA's injury?

Well Mathis has only pitched one game, so I guess he figures it's a bit of a gamble bumping one's ace like that.


Anders - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#261214) #
With Mathis we DO have a 9backup man pen.

Well get ready for Casey Janssen playing first, I guess.

Paul D - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#261215) #
Greinke to the angels.
Oceanbound - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#261216) #
Janssen only pinch hits when the Jays are up, but only by less than three runs and at the start of an inning. Unless he hasn't had an at bat in a while, in which case he hits in a blowout. He's a very niche hitter.
grjas - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#261218) #
Lind out with back tightness.

I think back issues are this guys fundamental problem. Can't find the hard data but this guy seems to hit better over the years when he's slotted into DH vs scooping balls at first. He's had more than a few instances of back problems over the last couple of years so hopefully they give him a while at DH to see if he can redevelop some consistency.

Of course he's been DH'ing for a while now and still is developing back issues. But having had them for years myself, i know they don't take much to trigger if you have chronic issues
Mike Green - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#261219) #
Greinke to the angels.

In the literal sense. 

Thanks, Alex, for the fine Scout.  When Peralta was in Cleveland and posting the poor defensive numbers at short in 2005-07, he was making more actual plays than he does now but there were many more balls in zone.  Is it that he has a quicker first step now than 5-7 years ago (I doubt it)?  Was it something about the velocity of the balls hit against the Indian staff in those years (possible, I suppose)?  Have the Tigers found a way to position him better to take advantage of his good arm (possible)?  It would make a good case study. 
Richard S.S. - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#261220) #
I was checking MLB Trade Rumors on my App and read of the Greinke trade, while at work. Checked back two minutes later and the App has no entries after 1650. Anyone know what happened?
Mike Green - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#261221) #
Quintin Berry is the first major leaguer with the initials QB.  This naturally leads to a Hall of Names question- could you make up a lineup with the football position initials?  If it was a rainy day at the cottage, I am sure that you could.
PeteMoss - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#261223) #
I concur... Thanks Alex for doing these.
Dewey - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#261224) #
Ooh, I just love it when Travis launches one of those rockets to right centre.  Love it, I tell ya.  Go Travis. 
James W - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#261225) #
Greinke was traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in exchange for Jean Segura, John Hellweg, and Ariel Pena.
Mike Green - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#261226) #
The prospect take for Greinke was not exactly overwhelming. 
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#261227) #
The prospect take for Greinke was not exactly overwhelming.

That's almost always what is said when one of these deals go down.  "Wow, that's all it took?" 
grjas - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#261228) #
Oliver and Janssen- sheesh, lost in the dilemma of starter injuries and bullpen inconsistencies is just how good these guys have been in the 8th and 9th. Not often have we had a 1-2 punch like these two in the late innings
scottt - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#261229) #
That was pretty much everything that was left in the Angel farm system.

It looks like the Jays could finish second in the division and still miss the playoffs. Both Angels and Tigers still fighting to win their pennant.
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#261230) #
It looks like the Jays could finish second in the division and still miss the playoffs. Both Angels and Tigers still fighting to win their pennant.

That would be just our luck.  It seems nearly every year the wildcard comes out of the East, and that was with only one WC.  Now watch there's two, the Jays will miraculously finish in 2nd, somehow not win either one.
Doom Service - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#261231) #
That's the price for 11 (or so) starts of Greinke, and I guess the rights to negotiate an extension for a few months.
China fan - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#261232) #
A pretty impressive performance by the Jays tonight. Consider their obstacles. Nearly half of their starting 9 hitters were injured (including their catcher, their shortstop and their all-star right-fielder). Their lineup featured two rookies (including a 21-year-old kid), plus a 45-year-old light-hitting utility infielder who was pressed into the number-two slot in the lineup, plus a catcher who has been described as the worst hitter in baseball last year. Their starting pitcher was a converted reliever who was probably the 8th or 9th starter in their pre-season depth chart. Their bullpen was decimated by injuries, and half of the relievers were rookies or minor-league veterans. They were facing one of the hottest teams in the league. And they still managed to win, quite handily. It just shows: youneverknow.
Alex Obal - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#261233) #
The great equalizer was that Villanueva's a better pitcher than Porcello.

I think I saw Villanueva throw at least four inside changeups to RH batters over the course of that game. Any pitcher who can throw anything anywhere for a strike, like Villanueva sometimes seems able to, is going to be effective. Hopefully all those sliders don't start eating his elbow again...
Thomas - Friday, July 27 2012 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#261234) #
The prospect take for Greinke was not exactly overwhelming.

I thought Melvin did quite well in the context of the new CBA. I think expectations for the return on pending free agents will have to be adjusted.

TamRa - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#261235) #
anyone else musing that it might be smart to start looking into an extension for Villineuva before he hits the open market?

Oceanbound - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 01:14 AM EDT (#261236) #
The discussion on the other thread about Arencibia's defense and pitch framing got me interested in looking up these stats, so here, have some numbers. Essentially we're looking at how many strikes a pitcher has actually gotten, and how many strikes he "should" have gotten. The methodology used comes from Jeff Sullivan, and it's pretty rough and basic. It's pitches in the zone added to pitches outside the zone that batters have swung at, both figures according to Pitch F/X.

What do the numbers tell us? Is Brett Cecil really a Gandalf at getting the calls? Was Kyle Drabek actually throwing MORE strikes than he should have? Probably not, but hey, pretty numbers.

Team: 8960 actual strikes / 9064 expected strikes / -7.2 strikes/1000 pitches
League: 271514 / 273878 / -5.5

Brett Cecil: 412 / 396 / +24.7
Kyle Drabek: 714 / 693 / +20.8
Casey Janssen: 397 / 385 / +20.1
Aaron Laffey: 420 / 414 / +8.4
Jesse Chavez: 244 / 245 / -2.0
Francisco Cordero: 377 / 379 / -3.0
Brandon Morrow: 772 / 780 / -6.5
Jason Frasor: 429 / 435 / -9.6
Drew Hutchison: 596 / 607 / -11.1
Carlos Villanueva: 571 / 585 / -14.9
Darren Oliver: 373 / 382 / -15.2
Ricky Romero: 1227 / 1271 / -21.2
Henderson Alvarez: 1175 / 1224 / -27.3
Joel Carreno: 150 / 157 / -27.3
Luis Perez: 429 / 448 / -28.7

scottt - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 06:11 AM EDT (#261237) #
With Morrow having his first rehab starts on Sunday, I think the pressure is on Alvarez.
Mike Green - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#261238) #
Fine game all around last night.  It was nice to see Omar Vizquel in the limelight...

The handling of the roster baffles me.  Adam Lind looked terrible on Wednesday, apparently because of back spasms, and has sat out a couple of games.  Why wouldn't you DL him and bring up Cooper or Thames to fill the LH side of the DH?  It  would also be very nice to have another catcher up instead of Carreno or Crawford, so that you could use comfortably Gomes as the RH part of the platoon.

If Alvarez goes 4-6 innings today, I'd like to see Farrell bring in Happ for a long outing (ideally, of course, the save).  This would set things up to have Happ start in place of Alvarez next time out, and save the high leverage relief guys for tomorrow's game.;  Just don't call it a tandem start!

Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 09:08 AM EDT (#261239) #
If you must trade top prospects you need to be ruthless.   RHP: Syndergaard or Sanchez, not both.   LHP: Nicolino or Norris, not both.   CF Gose or Marisnik, not both.   If you can't give up this caliber of prospect, you'll never land the "big one" in a trade.   Being unwilling to meet Free Agent's terms, severely limits player acquisition.   Waiting for A.A.'s draft strategy to start producing this continuous wave of players is an act of patience, they won't be here before 2015 at the earliest.   All we have to work with is J.P. Ricciardi's drafts, A.A.'s acquisitions and limited Free Agent signings to make this team better.   Without the 2010 and 2011 prospects as trading pieces, it will take a long time.   If acquiring a top Pitcher gives you this year and next, then at worst, an extra draft pick if he won't re-sign, it's a good choice. 
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#261240) #
TamRa, I've been wondering the same thing for a while. The thing is, how do you value him (as a reliever or starter)? How will the pitching-starved market value him this off-season? And if Villanueva wants to start, how likely is it that AA can promise him a legit shot at the rotation next year?

It seems to me that Villanueva has a strong incentive to at least explore free agency. He's only 28 and some team might give him a substantial contract.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#261241) #
"If you must trade top prospects you need to be ruthless"

Ruthless or reckless?
Mike Green - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#261242) #
Katrina Onstad has an interesting article in today's Globe and Mail on fandom.  Note to writers: you have me at "the Church of Baseball". 
Mike Green - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#261243) #
Ruthless or reckless?

Reckless or feckless?
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#261244) #
Ruthless or reckless? Reckless or feckless?

I guess it depends whether you prefer assonance, consonance or alliteration.
Magpie - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#261245) #
Why wouldn't you DL him and bring up Cooper or Thames to fill the LH side of the DH?

Cooper's last 10 games: .524/.563/.833. which even includes games on the road. Shock! But as y'all probably know I've wanted him to have Lind's job since last September and I don't think it's going to happen.

I always knew Prince Fielder was a bad first baseman, but there's knowing something and knowing it. Some things you really do have to see with your own eyes and... wow. He's about as mobile as a building, and if the infielder's throw doesn't hit his glove nice and square and on the fly, he's probably not going to catch it. He makes Adam Lind look like Keith Hernandez. Yikes.

Pretty scary hitter, though.
Dewey - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#261246) #
Katrina Onstad has an interesting article in today's Globe and Mail on fandom.

A good article.  Thanks Mike.

It reminds me of an old Herman cartoon:  Herman and a few of his more loutish buddies are carousing in the stands, and the people around them are trying to keep a safe distance away.  Herman is crowing, “You don’t get atmosphere like this watching on TV!” 
Mike Green - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#261247) #
It's a very interesting lineup today for the day game after a night game.  Escobar is back.  Gomes is catching.  Rasmus DHs while Gose plays centerfield.  Davis in right-field in the leadoff slot against a RH pitcher, so that Lawrie can bat third and Gose ninth. Snider batting fifth.  It is not what I what do exactly, but I appreciate the creative thinking.   It is a fine defensive lineup, so if Alvarez can keep the ball in the yard, he should be all right. 
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#261248) #
Great diving catch by Snider to save a run.
PeteMoss - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#261249) #
Well that was a nice catch.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#261251) #
OK, strategy time: would you let Alvarez pitch the eighth, or go to the 'pen? Due up: Jackson (bats R), Berry (L), Cabrera (R)

I think I would let Alvarez start the inning. If he gets the first two outs, let him pitch to Cabrera. If Cabrera reaches, bring in a lefty (Happ? Crawford?) to pitch to Fielder.

Alternatively, I would let Janssen go two innings. The next four batters are the critical ones remaining.

I would *not* throw Carreno or Happ out there to pitch the eighth.

China fan - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#261252) #
You'd let Janssen pitch 2 innings today when he's already pitched on the past two consecutive days? When 5 other relievers are well-rested? I agree with your reluctance to use Carreno, Crawford, etc, but Happ is well-rested and should be reliable with a 4-run lead.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 03:27 PM EDT (#261253) #
My bad - I didn't realize Janssen pitched yesterday. Thanks for noting that. No, I wouldn't use Janssen for two innings.

Note: I wrote my post when it was 3-1, not 5-1. But I still don't love using Happ against Jackson-Berry-Cabrera, given his R-L splits.

I would have used Alvarez to start the inning, as per my previous post. Hopefully Happ will get the job done, though.

scottt - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#261254) #
7 and 2 is the new tandem formula.
China fan - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#261256) #
I think it was quite reasonable for Farrell to lift Alvarez at the end of the 7th inning today after he had thrown 104 pitches. Keep in mind that Alvarez is only 22 and he has already thrown 126 innings this season. He had tossed only 112 innings in 2010 and only 160 innings last year. You don't want to treat him like a veteran who is accustomed to throwing 180 or 200 innings a year. The Jays have been careful about his usage this year, keeping a close eye on his pitch count. In fact his 104 pitches today were the 3rd-most that he has thrown in any game this season. He has never thrown more than 108 pitches in a game this season. So I think it was quite normal and reasonable for Farrell to lift him after 104 pitches today.

For what it's worth, Alvarez has managed to increase his K rate significantly over the past four games. In that stretch of games, he has a K/9 of 6. That's nearly double his K rate for the previous 16 games of the season. So maybe there's still hope that he'll develop into an above-average pitcher with a reasonable K rate. Certainly he posted a strong game today against a good-hitting lineup.
Dewey - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#261258) #
I just flat out like Gomes.  The guy is a valuable asset, and never seems to screw up no matter where he plays.  And he can hit with considerable effectiveness.

I also like this fellow Loup.  He’s become wolfie for me, second only to wolfie amadeus m. in my lupine affections.  (How come we never heard anything about him from all you predictor/prognosticator/prospect experts?  Hmmm?)
China fan - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#261259) #
One interesting question is whether Gomes might deserve some of the credit for the improved performance by Alvarez today. Probably not, but you never know. Pitcher-catcher dynamics are hard to assess. Maybe it was time for Alvarez to get a new catcher, just for a change, and maybe somehow it helped him today.

Gomes certainly didn't do anything to hurt his reputation today. He recorded a double and single in three ABs, and his backstopping helped the Jays to limit the Tigers to a single run. No errors, passed balls or stolen bases were charged against him. If Gomes can show himself to be an adequate back-up catcher, he's a valuable guy to keep around.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#261260) #
ChinaFan, those are good points re Alvarez. My thinking was that he was strong and efficient in the seventh, and was a good candidate to go eight without exceeding 120 pitches. In any case, all's well that ends well.

Pretty impressive that despite all the injuries, the Jays are one game out of second place in the AL East, with Bautista and Morrow on the comeback trail.

Big game tomorrow, as the Tigers (if not the White Sox) figure to be a major wild card rival the rest of the way.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#261262) #
For anyone Interested, Dirk Hayhurst is Co-Host on Baseball Central on the Roger's Network.
bpoz - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#261263) #
Regarding pitching strategy & roles.

We should not tax the arm of any of our good pitchers. The reason being injury concerns. Janssen is the most important piece of the pen IMO. Alvarez is an important long term asset to the team. I do not mean to imply that the others are not good pitchers, just that the bottom of the pen has many available arms & call ups can be done easily. Beck, Crawford should go up and down I think just to stay game ready for their low leverage roles.
Somehow Oliver, Fraser (when healthy), Happ & Lyons are IMO regarded as capable ML veterans that should be able to succeed at this time of year in some tough situations.

So for tomorrow, Happ is unavailable. If the starter is good enough to go 6IP and keep us in the game +/- 2 runs then the strategy is still not easy. Protecting a 1 or 2 run lead for 3 innings means using Oliver & Lyons and then Janssen if we are still winning. Behind by 1 or 2 run means using Carreno, Loup etc and risking the game getting away but hoping the offense gets us the lead to protect.
A blowout in our favor means not letting it get away like in the Cecil blowout. A blowout against us means using up a replaceable arm like A Carpenter. Other than Romero our rotation is giving our offense a chance to win a lot of games.
Mike Green - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#261264) #
Since the 16 run loss, the Jays have won games by 6, 5 and 4.  They can win by 3 tomorrow to keep the sequence going, or they can win by 1 to truly run roughshod over Pythagoras (4-1 with the same number of runs scored and allowed).  I will take either outcome. 

Can there be anything more enjoyable than watching young players develop?

greenfrog - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#261265) #
I can say that since his recall Snider has been a joy to watch. He looks much better than in his previous go-arounds.
PeteMoss - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#261267) #
I liked how Gomes was at least attempting to frame the pitches. The umps weren't giving the close calls to Alvarez (who could have had a couple more K's - which is another good sign from him lately), but you don't often see that from a young guy.
TamRa - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#261268) #
(How come we never heard anything about him from all you predictor/prognosticator/prospect experts? Hmmm?)
----

Relief pitchers are, I think, the hardest things to "prospect" from a distance and I suspect even in person. Unless you are a professional scout or whatever so that you get a LOT of looks. The sample that any given fan might see for themselves is awfully small and stats only tell you so much.

Plus, the cliche is most major league relievers are "failed" starters, that is they were starters in the minors.

Loup was on the radar for me because they sent him to the AFL last year but stats wise, he didn't jump out at me and sometimes you send filler to the AFL if the roster breakdown goes against you. Coming into this year, these are the guys that had been pitching as relievers that one might reasonably assume were potential major league relievers at some point:

Joel Carreno - a cheat, he'd been a full time starter, doesn't really count
Chad Beck - based on remarks last year
Trystan Magnuson - based on having pitched in the majors
Danny Farquhar - once considered that good
Evan Crawford - AA gushed
Aaron Loup - AFL slot
Matt Wright - on stats
Alan Farina - was on the DL to start the year
Dustin Antolin - based on pre-injury reports
Danny Barnes - on stats

Farquhar is already well traveled, Magnuson fell apart, Beck's on the shuttle, Carreno regressed, Wright's on the DL now but was pitching well, Farina's recovering, and the other two are too far away.

Point is, Loup was in the group but middle relief prospects are by definition not top prospects, they are usually starters in the minors, and they are - like their major league counterparts - wildly unpredictable under the best of circumstances.

While I'm being overly-exhaustive - besides Carreno there were several starters that had at least been speculated to be guys who might end up relieving in the majors, either because they were not good enough to make the rotation or because of some other concern:

Stilson
Jenkins
Wojo
Dyson
Tepera
I won't count any of the lower level guys, they are too far away. Now we can throw Stroman into that, and David Carpenter. Fun part is, the next guy who looks really good might very well be someone I haven't named yet.
PeteMoss - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#261269) #
Just checking out how the ex-Jays have done in Houston. Cordero was named the closer after the Brett Myers trade and promptly blew two saves... sitting with a 23.14 ERA in 3 games with the Astros.

Ben Francisco is doing better... 316/316/474 with a HR.
JB21 - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#261271) #
Roberto Osuna 1st Vancouver start is going solid thus far.

3 Innings, 0 WHIP, 8 k's. WOW.
uglyone - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#261272) #
that kid might just be our best pitching prospect.
JB21 - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#261274) #
10 k's through 4. 0 runs, 1 hit, 1 walk.
JB21 - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#261275) #
Struck out the side in the 5th, 13 k's, 15 outs.
JB21 - Saturday, July 28 2012 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#261276) #
White Sox got Francisco Liriano for 2 minor leaguers. I was going to type prospects but I didn't think the White Sox had any of those left.
PeteMoss - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#261279) #
Was just coming to post this... holy frick what a start. And the guy is still over 6 months from his 18th birthday.
PeteMoss - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#261280) #
That Victor Sanchez who pitched against him was another top international pitching free agent signee last year... same age as Osuna as well. With Osuna, Sanchez and then Stroman all pitching tonight.. it was a good night for prospect watchers in Everett.
TamRa - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 01:17 AM EDT (#261281) #
Osuna just HAS to be a top 10 prospect at this point I think. That's phenomenal.

Everyone loves Nicolino, rightly so, and he's one level up from Vancouver (having been there all year, roughly 1.5 seasons ahead) and 3.25 years older. Sanchez and Syndergaard are 2.5 years older.

scottt - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 07:53 AM EDT (#261282) #
The White Sox have rented Liriano for the rest of the year. Josh Johnson must really be priced out of range.
Kelekin - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 08:11 AM EDT (#261283) #
So out of curiosity - now that J.A. Happ is clearly being used as a bullpen arm, do people really think that was a good trade?  We got three bullpen arms (only two of which are even somewhat proven at the ML level and one who has struggled greatly) for two junk players (Cordero, Francisco), four prospects (whether or not you think they're amazing prospects) and a PTBNL. 

I know the argument is going to be "we didn't give up that much" and "these are not top prospects", but that isn't quite the point.  Trading away players simply to support a bullpen whilst we have one of the worst rotations in baseball just seems like a stupid move in general. 

Kelekin - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 08:23 AM EDT (#261285) #
To put it another way - two consecutive first-rounders plus five other players seems like an overpay.  Wojo and Musgrove are the type of players you put together in a package with two higher-ranked prospects to get a way better starter.  So at the end of the day, that's my issue - that we packaged prospects for something moderately useful at best.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 08:34 AM EDT (#261286) #
You could look at Happ as Villanueva 2.0 for the next couple of years. He might end up in the rotation or pitch in middle/late relief. He's a valuable to the extent that you need a lot of starting pitching depth to get through the season. As Gerry noted the other day, he's also a guy that AA and Farrell think might have an "extra gear" in him.

I still like the trade. I wish we had Lyon under control for next year, though.
uglyone - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#261287) #
There's no question it was an overpay. Jays are 6-2 since the trade, though, so the players seem to like the move.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#261288) #
At least one commentator doesn't think it was an overpay. Per Keith Law:

"For Toronto, this move adds pitching depth at a cost of fringe prospects who might have been squeezed out of 40-man spots by better players in the next few years and were one bad half-season away from losing any trade value they had."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/law_keith/id/8184528/breaking-trade-toronto-houston-mlb
Kelekin - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#261289) #
I feel my concern is less about what we gave up and more about the notion that this team is better than it is and the pressure that a lot of fans have put on the team to compete now when it was never really intended for us to be ready to compete this quickly. 

The pressure from the bandwagon has caused us to go into win-now mode a little too quickly.  AA may be a shrewd dealmaker, but Jeff Luhnow is gathering quite the reputation thus far.
CeeBee - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#261290) #
"The pressure from the bandwagon has caused us to go into win-now mode a little too quickly. "
Can't say I agree that this is a win now move. IMO it's more like a survive move.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:33 AM EDT (#261291) #
The Jays currently lead the American League in runs scored, averaging 5 runs per game.  The park has helped with that some. Still, no one would have predicted that at the beginning of the year.

It makes it a lot easier with a pitcher like Villanueva, Laffey or Cecil, if they know that the team on average will score 5 runs and provide good defence behind them.  The fear of the solo homer loses its bite, and helps provide the confidence to throw more strikes. 

China fan - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#261292) #
'.....Trading away players simply to support a bullpen whilst we have one of the worst rotations in baseball just seems like a stupid move in general...."

Happ, of course, was not acquired to support the bullpen. He was acquired to be a starter, and Anthopoulos made that perfectly clear in his post-trade comments. The only reason for Happ's bullpen role is the rather miraculous improvement in the Jays rotation since the trade. Over the past 8 games, Romero has been the only below-average starter, and he's not easily demoted. The other pitchers, astonishingly, have managed to hold their own. (Eight games is a small sample, but they haven't behaved like one of the worst rotations in baseball in that stretch.)

Nobody expects that level of adequacy to continue indefinitely, so it's great to have Happ available to step into the rotation when needed. For the first time in months, the Jays actually have a bit of rotation depth. It's an essential ingredient, and AA was right to acquire it.

As an added bonus, Happ and Lyon have helped to stabilize the bullpen, which was a glaring problem for the Jays. So I'd still rank it as a good trade. Both the rotation and bullpen have improved and gained depth since the trade (with the exception of the 16-0 loss to Oakland), and the trade has to get some of the credit for that.
uglyone - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#261293) #
"The notion that this team is better than it is"

Within half a game of 2nd in the division, within 4gms of two playoff spote....this young highest scoring team in the league looks pretty good to me.
bpoz - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#261294) #
Is B Lyons as good as Fraser? Fraser is being paid $3mil/yr which seems to be standard for AA. How much is Lyons being paid?
I think Happ is excellent SP depth. He is available in case of injury. If Romero plays this badly in 2013 then he is weakening the rotation, depending on who is in it and probably should be replaced in the rotation if there is a better option. But who?

What I am more interested in is an evaluation of the package for Liriano. First, was it a salary dump? What is an equivalent package that we could have provided?
I can only see P Humber being at risk of losing his spot in the CWS rotation to Liriano. This is very good depth. I do not see a CWS 6 man rotation, they are in a great position so go with your best.
China fan - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#261297) #
Adam Lind is out of the lineup again, and Farrell said yesterday that he'd want to DL him if he's not recovered by today. So if Lind goes onto the DL, who gets the next call-up? Any predictions or advice?

I'd vote for Cooper or Thames. Both have both been hitting very well at Vegas lately, and either of them could slot into the DH position in the Jays lineup to replace Lind, with occasional stints in the field. (Yes, I can hear the groans already on their defensive limitations, but Thames especially could be seen primarily as a DH if he's promoted now.)
scottt - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#261298) #
Liriano is a free agent and the Twins were not going to offer him qualifying money so he was just auctioned. He's lost his last 4 starts and hasn't been good this year, so it's a bit of a desperation move from Chicago.

Swapping Snider and Francisco and replacing Cordero with anybody greatly improved the team. Happ and Lyon are just gravy.

Morrow is pitching a rehab game today, so now Happ won't start unless 2 pitchers other than Romero fall apart.
China fan - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#261299) #
Morrow is scheduled for 4 rehab starts, so it could take up to 3 weeks to get him into the Jays lineup. In those 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if Happ gets a start. But it goes back to our poll question: who does he replace? Is it fair to replace someone who's had just one bad start? Does it take 2 consecutive bad starts to replace someone? Does Romero skip a start or get demoted? Does Cecil go to the bullpen? Many questions, but it would be surprising if nobody needs replacement over the next few weeks.
uglyone - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#261301) #
"Is B Lyons as good as Fraser? Fraser is being paid $3mil/yr which seems to be standard for AA. How much is Lyons being paid?"

Lyon's getting paid $5.5m in the last year of his contract and he's pretty comparable tor Frasor overall...but has been able to perform solidly as a closer at times in his career which has made him pricier than Frasor. Career Numbers as Reliever:

Lyon (32): 508.2ip, 6.4k/9, 3.0bb/9, 41.9gb%, 7.4hr/fb%, .299babip, 1.37whip, 3.86era, 3.88fip, 4.31xfip
Frasor (34): 514.2ip, 8.6k/9, 3.9bb/9, 43.2gb%, 8.9hr/fb%, .290babip, 1.42whip, 3.76era, 3.79fip, 3.97xfip


"Adam Lind is out of the lineup again, and Farrell said yesterday that he'd want to DL him if he's not recovered by today. So if Lind goes onto the DL, who gets the next call-up? Any predictions or advice?

I'd vote for Cooper or Thames. Both have both been hitting very well at Vegas lately, and either of them could slot into the DH position in the Jays lineup to replace Lind, with occasional stints in the field. (Yes, I can hear the groans already on their defensive limitations, but Thames especially could be seen primarily as a DH if he's promoted now.)"

It's definitely one of these two.

Thames is red hot (1.039ops JUL, 1.068ops last10), but Cooper is even red hotter (1.079ops JUL, 1.375ops last10). And Cooper actually produced while up here this year. Can't go wrong with either one right now but I'd lean towards Coop, mostly because he doesn't really have any platoon splits while Thames is not as good vs. LHP.


"Morrow is scheduled for 4 rehab starts, so it could take up to 3 weeks to get him into the Jays lineup."

Yup, by my calculations, pretty much exactly 3 weeks - he should be good to start for the Jays on Saturday August 18, barring any setbacks.



"In those 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if Happ gets a start. But it goes back to our poll question: who does he replace? Is it fair to replace someone who's had just one bad start? Does it take 2 consecutive bad starts to replace someone? Does Romero skip a start or get demoted? Does Cecil go to the bullpen? Many questions, but it would be surprising if nobody needs replacement over the next few weeks."

I think management said at the time of the trade that most of the SP were going start-to-start for the time being. No reason to force Happ into the rotation if all the other guys are going well. If Romero blows up in Seattle again this week, though, I could see romero getting a rehab stint and Happ drawing in to replace him.
TamRa - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#261303) #
"Yup, by my calculations, pretty much exactly 3 weeks - he should be good to start for the Jays on Saturday August 18, barring any setbacks."


Actually the 19th. You see, the day on which his 4th minor league start would normally fall is an off day for both Dunedin and New Hampshire, so that turn will be on five days rest (I doubt the send him to Vegas to save one day) which pushes him back a day and, by the way, lines him up with the rotation slot currently occupied by Brett Cecil. FWIW
Mike Green - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#261304) #
The 3-2 pitch that Peralta hit out off Cecil was down and in, and Peralta golfed it just out of the park.  That has happened quite a bit to Cecil.  With runners on second and third and Boesch to follow, Cecil is better off to either come up and in or be further inside.  That is a situation where a walk is all right.  The killer was the walk to Delmon. Despite all that, Cecil continues to pitch well.

I really wish they had brought up Cooper or Thames earlier.  The one positive about the delay is that Cooper or Thames can join the club in Seattle and not have to make the more difficult time zone adjustment. 


scottt - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#261306) #
The rotation slot currently occupied by Brett Cecil is otherwise known as the low run support slot.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#261307) #
Cecil did pitch pretty well. He's now had three quality starts in a row, although he has yet to last 7 IP this year (today's start was the first time he's lasted more than 6 IP). He's holding his own at a time when the rotation has been decimated.

Peralta's HR was entirely legit, IMO - it landed at the back of the bullpen not far left of the 375' sign.

Fister was a very good acquisition by the Tigers, although the M's did get some value in return (Charlie Furbush in particular has had a great year for them in relief).
Gerry - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#261308) #
Brandon Morrow pitched three innings for the Dunedin Jays today.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 29 2012 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#261312) #
Cooper is not in LV's lineup tonight and Thames is. 
Magpie - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 01:04 AM EDT (#261314) #
And Adam Lind says he's going on the DL.
Richard S.S. - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 03:23 AM EDT (#261315) #
And if Oakland wants Escobar, Hechavarria is joining Cooper in Seattle.
China fan - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#261322) #
It's been confirmed: Lind on the DL, retroactive to July 26, and Cooper promoted.
vw_fan17 - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#261341) #
Keeping up with the "bad pun" idea from a few days ago (or something, maybe not puns..)

From the Thursday game:
Pitcher                         IP    H    R      ER  
S Doolittle                    0.2   3    4       4
Just as his name implies, he "did" very little to help his team.

From the Friday game:
Pitcher                         IP    H    R      ER  
D Below                       1.0   1    2        1
Again, living up to his name, he pitched "below" expectations..

Mike Green - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#261343) #
Is Below's nickname "Lookout"?
JB21 - Monday, July 30 2012 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#261349) #

He belows, or did Friday Night anyways.

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