Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The Blue Jays are looking for a new hitting coach, as Kevin Seitzer has been reportedly hired by the Atlanta Braves in the same position. The Blue Jays are also reassigning Bob Stanley to another role in the organization, resulting in two vacancies on the coaching staff.

Meanwhile, the Royals and Giants are flying back to Kansas City today with the Royals needed victories over Jake Peavy and Tim Hudson to stop San Francisco’s even year streak from continuing after an absolutely dominant performance from Madison Bumgarner last night.
Seitzer Departs | 67 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#294588) #
That's too bad.  I liked Seitzer's approach and thought that he might make the transition that Cito Gaston did all those years ago. 
Original Ryan - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#294589) #
According to Shi Davidi, Seitzer and the Blue Jays simply couldn't agree on a contract for 2015. I'd be interested to know how far apart the two sides were, as coaches generally don't make that much (relatively speaking). All of the other coaches (minus Stanley) are apparently signed for next year.

Seitzer was highly regarded when he came over here and was also being sought (IIRC) by the White Sox. Part of the reason for dropping Mottola after one year was so that Gibbons could bring in a guy he was more familiar with. I find it odd that the team wouldn't make more of an effort to keep Seitzer, all things considered.

SK in NJ - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#294591) #
If this is contract related, then it doesn't make any sense. How far apart could they possibly have been? Is Seitzer represented by Boras?

This will now be the fourth hitting coach in four years, I believe. That's terrible, and I can't imagine the players will be too happy about it.
greenfrog - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 11:31 AM EDT (#294593) #
I do not understand the front office's approach here. Sounds like another case of penny wise, pound foolish.
Vulg - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#294594) #
You have to wonder what the players are thinking, particularly in light of how embarrassingly the Ervin Santana "money squeeze" played out.

I'm hopeful there's more to the story and this doesn't really come down to how much the Blue Jays were willing to pay a hitting coach ... I mean, what hope do they have for Melky?
Mike Green - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#294596) #
Blue Jay birthdays for today: Pete Vuckovich, Barry Bonnell, and Pond, Simon Pond. 
Parker - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#294597) #
Just another appalling display by a front office that seems to have no regard for PR or team building. Now if any of the hitters take a step backwards (very likely, especially in the case of aging guys like Bautista, Encarnacion, and Reyes) fans will blame the organization's cheapness and lack of vision for failing to keep a successful coach. Ditto for the development of Gose/Pillar/Pompey.

The Blue Jays have got to be in the top five for worst-run organizations in MLB at this point. Hopefully Beeston and Anthoupoulos don't last much longer in Toronto.
SJE - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#294598) #
A little calmness here, it's the hitting coach. Jays offence has been virtually the same for the last few years under at least 3 different hitting coaches.If the Jays were losing a pitching coach like,Dave Duncan, I would be upset. Or not having funds to sign Marcus Stroman, Sanchez,and other young talent to extensions that would be upsetting. Not resigning a hitting coach really has nothing to do with whether you resign Melky or not. The dollars invested are so vastly different.
John Northey - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#294600) #
Over the last 4 years the Jays run scored have been 743-716-712-723 - barely any change with the peak being 2011.  Seitzer is viewed as a top hitting coach - a guy whose approach in KC suggest he could be worth as much as 4 wins a year which was hard to believe.  The first half of this year it seemed true, but then Francisco & Tolleson collapsed (to put it mildly) and special projects like Goins didn't go anywhere all year. 

I would've preferred keeping him but I suspect he really wanted to go back to the US - he never wanted to leave KC.  This does explain the rumours about the Jays were chasing Kevin Long as a hitting coach (Oct 14th). 

SK in NJ - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#294607) #
Not re-signing the hitting coach, or in this particular case having to hire a 4th hitting coach in four years, does not make the organization look good or stable. If they were going to hold on to Gibbons, then it just makes logical sense to hold on to the guy he apparently had a hand in hiring last season. I find it very difficult to believe that Seitzer's asking price was outlandish or too big for the Jays to match. Maybe they are going to scapegoat Gibbons, either soon or mid-season, and figured Seitzer would have been dumped anyway, but then what's the point of holding on to Gibbons?

If they were going to bring the coaches back, then bring back Gibby's guy. I'm not particularly fond of Gibbons, but if he's your guy, then let him work with the guys he wants, and then fire them as a tandem if it gets to that point. What happens now when the Jays hire hitting coach #4, and then fire Gibbons mid-season or after next season? Do they have to search for hitting coach #5 next year? It's a painful and ridiculous cycle that only makes the organization look bad.
electric carrot - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#294608) #
This is definitely bad news.  Jose Bats raved about the guy and that's good enough for me.  Why not just pay him the darned money? 
greenfrog - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#294609) #
It may be that Seitzer preferred Atlanta over Toronto, and the stated reason for his departure was simply a way of saving face for the already-embattled Jays.
whiterasta80 - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#294610) #
I'm assuming that it was term and not dollars that appealed to Seitzer no?
SK in NJ - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#294611) #
If coaches/managers that have options for employment elsewhere are simply using the Jays to gain experience or to 'have work' while waiting for a better opportunity to arise, then that's not a good sign. Farrell knew Boston wanted him after his first year in Toronto, and then finally got his wish after the second year. Seitzer came with a better reputation (at least online) than most Jays hitting coaches recently, and he left after one year. He got a year's pay, as opposed to sitting at home, and then split when a better opportunity came up. Now, we don't know the reason he left as of yet, and maybe we will never know the real reason, but that still gives off a bad impression. Gibbons will never get another managerial job again, so he'll hold on to this one with all his strength until they force him out. If the Jays are hiring those types instead of established types, then they better strike gold, because otherwise there will just be a lot of reshuffling every year.

I'm guessing DeMarlo Hale is sticking around because he knows he is next in line in the event that Gibbons is fired.
Clutch - Monday, October 27 2014 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#294612) #
Maybe the Blue Jays have a strict 1 year contract policy for their coaching staff.
bpoz - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#294614) #
Gibbons and the Jays should be able to win 88 games in 2015. If he does that, I think that his job is safe.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#294616) #
Interesting bit at MLB Trade Rumors - AL East Notes: Rays, Lind, Robertson, Ichiro - basically saying that Lind is a lock to be traded very soon so the Jays can free up his $7.5 mil salary.  Guess that means we can expect the Jays to be pushing the payroll down or trying to stay as a 'top 10' - last year the Jays were 8th with $137 mil and 10th was the Rangers at $133.  #11 was a big drop down to $115 for the Reds. 

If the Jays are in 'clear out salary' stage then Buehrle, Dickey, and Reyes are on the table for anyone willing to eat the salary with a minimal return.  Buehrle at $19 mil, Dickey $12 mil, Reyes $22 mil.  I could see AA trying to trade Reyes as $22 mil is a LOT for a guy who is a top 5 SS on offense but below average on defense.  Clear out Reyes & Buehrle and you get the Jays down to the middle of MLB (#11-16 range from $104-115 mil, then a drop to $93 for #17).  Interesting that Reyes & Buehrle combined in 2015 will make just shy of what the Marlins entire payroll is for 2014 ($43.6 mil).

I'm betting on the Jays being willing to trade Reyes if someone eats the vast majority of his salary ala the old Wells deal, while trying to get a 2B or SS for Lind and a pitcher (Happ, Dickey, or Buehrle) then playing Goins at either SS or 2B along with the crew from last year who rotated around at 2B (Izturis, Kawasaki, Tolleson, and some AAAA guys invited to camp).  I don't expect they'll get that lucky, but who knows?  If the other team won't eat 90% of Reyes' salary though then I don't expect a deal.

Buehrle will only be traded if the Jays get something good in return as 2015 is critical to AA's survival as a GM.  Dickey would be easier for him to let go as then he could upgrade the backup catcher without fear.  I still expect Happ to be the pitcher traded this winter though to open up a slot for the kids while freeing up a bit of salary ($6.7 mil).  Clear out Happ & Lind and there is $14.2 mil made available or more than Dickey & Thole will make.

Right now the Jays are locked in (if you assume Happ, Lind, & Thole options picked up, Morrow, McGowan, Santos are not) at $112 mil (est Thole at $2 mil).  They have to go to arbitration with Mayberry, Francisco, Cecil, Valencia, Lawrie, Delabar, maybe Hutchison but all are 1st or 2nd year arbitration so odds are sub $3 mil each.  Lets assume $3 mil apiece so $21 mil putting the Jays at $133 mil.  That leaves out a CF (Rasmus), LF (Cabrera), closer (Janssen) and a few position players.  The other guys will be $500k apiece to fill the roster so not a big factor.  Closer will probably be an in-house solution as will CF (Gose/Pillar/Pompey).  So right now that probably puts the Jays where they were in 2014 for payroll without resigning Cabrera who will probably cost $15 mil.  How to fit him in?  Well, trade Lind & Happ for rookies or near rookies and zip boom bang you are sub $140 mil and still a top 10 payroll.

The problem then is Mayberry is your DH while 3 kids man CF and 2B is still Goins/Kawasaki/Izturis/Tolleson/etc. with a rookie #5 starter, an 'unproven' closer (Cecil maybe), and 2 other kids in the rotation (Hutchison & Stroman).  Ideally the trade would get a solution for 2B but lots of areas of concern and no lock for 90 wins.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#294617) #
Hmm... silly thought of the day... if the Jays trade Lind and cannot resign Cabrera could they sign Ichiro to be a LH DH/backup OF?  He'd probably be cheap and if Cabrera is lost he would be insurance in case Pompey/Gose/Pillar/Mayberry cannot cover 3 positions (CF/LF/DH).  Not a great player anymore by any stretch but still was a 1.0 bWAR last year and never has had a negative bWAR.  Just 156 hits from 3000 so a safe bet he will work hard to make it.  Obviously would prefer Cabrera though.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#294621) #
If a starter gets traded, it will be Happ. Dickey and Buehrle are 200 IP starters who are still productive. Replacing Happ's production would be far easier, although it's debatable whether someone like Sanchez can do it in 2015. Ultimately, a one win starter making $6.7M that has trouble eating innings is probably a piece that should be moved if they are trying to clear payroll. I'm not sure any starter will get traded based on AA's comments about needing 10 starters a season, but if one has to be moved, it would have to be the worst one.

As far as Lind, I think he will get moved for bullpen help . I can't imagine a platoon DH will command a grand return but if they can get a closer option or two out of it with years of control left then it may be worth it.

The question becomes, who plays 1B? Will Bautista be willing to move there full-time? Is AA going to bring Francisco back to platoon with Mayberry at lower cost?
jerjapan - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#294624) #
Parker, how can you say that the Jays are in the top five worst run organizations in MLB?  I think of the Phillies, White Sox Arizona and Colorado off the top of my head.  Houston and Minnesota are showing future promise, but have been dreadful for a while.  Miami has to been the most frustrating team in the game for a fan. 

Teams like the Angels and Dodgers are able to paper over mediocre management with huge payrolls.  Does this make them well run?  obviously, with Friedman, the Dodgers are changing in this regard. 

It wasn't long ago people were lauding our 'ninja GM' (okay, maybe that was mostly Tamra.  We optimists miss your optimism!) 

in terms of farm teams, John Sickels had us at #15 in May, before our strong 2014 draft

15) Toronto Blue Jays: This system could leap several spots by the end of the year headlined by Marcus Stroman, Daniel Norris, and Alex Sanchez. The position side is quite toolsy but has high bust potential. Watch Low-A third baseman Mitch Nay closely.

BP had us at 13 in Feb, again before this years draft, although we have likely lost some prospects to the big leagues.  which, of course, hurts our rankings and is a positive sign. 

13. Toronto Blue Jays
State of the System: Despite a recent penchant for using prospects as currency to acquire major-league talent, the Jays system remains thick with high-ceiling players on both sides of the ball.
Farm System Trajectory for 2015: Up. The Jays have some of the best young prospect depth in baseball, and as the short-season talent start to develop at the full-season level, the system as a whole should jump into the top 10, where they are likely to stay for a very long time.

We are upper middle of the pack in organizational rankings with very good upside and a high floor, in my mind. 

Parker - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#294625) #
We'll just agree to disagree, I guess.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#294626) #
They've averaged 79.2 wins per season over the last 5 years with pretty much an average payroll over that period.  Broadly speaking, being close to average is not enough when one is routinely competing with teams with much higher payrolls (the Yankees and Red Sox) or much better than average management (Tampa and Baltimore in recent years). 

Reject mediocrity!

SK in NJ - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#294627) #
The Jays have picked up Justin Smoak. Guess that answers the question of who plays first when Lind is traded.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#294628) #
For history buffs, here's a 5 year old scouting report from John Sickels on Smoak.  He's had a lot of trouble with the change and the curve in the major leagues, and has struck out a lot more than was anticipated (without  the power spike to make it all work).  Maybe he escapes from Seattle and finds happiness in the RC...
China fan - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#294629) #
".....We'll just agree to disagree, I guess...."

You made a sweeping generalization about the Jays, calling them "one of the five worst-run organizations in MLB" and didn't bother to provide any evidence for the claim.  Jerjapan responded with a very detailed evidence-based rebuttal.  When it's your turn to respond, you still don't bother to provide any evidence for your claim. Why would this be an "agree to disagree" situation?  Seems instead that your butt was kicked in a debate and you're essentially conceding defeat.
85bluejay - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#294630) #
Smoak is a worthwhile change of scenery guy & the cost is perfect - those highly touted 1b prospects from the 2008 draft have generally sucked - we've struck out with David Cooper & Brett Wallace so far, if Smoak fails, then maybe it's onto Yonder Alonso.

I won't mind taking a shot at Jesus Montero also, if the price is cheap enough.
Mylegacy - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#294631) #
If ANYONE on this site says - even while under the influence of drugs, liquour or women of ill repute - that with the acquisition of Smoak (and his career 1288 AB's vs RHP which resulted in a BA of 224, an OPS of 318, a SLG of 391 and an OPS of 709) he is a "replacement" for Lind's bat against RHP and therefore Lind can safely be traded - then I shall be obliged to hunt them down and deliver unto them a through thrashing. Gentlemen, you have been warned.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#294632) #
Smoak seems an odd pickup unless he is going to AAA.  His best season has a 1.4 bWAR, lifetime just 1.0 (ie: he was sub-replacement level the rest of his career outside of 2013).  I really don't see the point of getting him unless Jay scouts feel he is about to have a breakthrough although none of his stats suggest it outside of his hitting worse at home than on the road lifetime (648 OPS at home, 728 on the road).  Very odd.
Parker - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#294633) #
Why would this be an "agree to disagree" situation? Seems instead that your butt was kicked in a debate and you're essentially conceding defeat.

Well, he listed seven franchises he believes are run worse than the Jays:

Philly - ugly payroll but they won the WS a few years ago

ChiSox - rebuilding after a WS win a few years back

D-backs - they suck, but no boondoggle contracts and are rated by several publications as having a much better crop of prospects than the Jays

Rockies - similar to D-backs

Both Houston and Minny have much lower payrolls and are obviously rebuilding

Dodgers and Angels are contenders despite questionable management - you can't deny that they're at least trying to win

The Jays have a top-ten payroll and an aging roster but can't seem to decide whether they're going for it or not, and their decisions in this regard (repeatedly saying one thing, then doing another) are terrible PR moves. Despite having an obscenely rich owner, one the most favorable team/broadcast/stadium relationships in the league, and the 4th biggest market, they have not made the playoffs ONCE during Rogers' ownership. Four hitting coaches in four years. Three managers in five years, and the only one who's thought of highly enough to get a job with any other organization bolted to a divisional opponent. Then there's the whole longest playoff drought in North American major league sports thing. Attendance has declined even though the team has improved. This "seems" to be pretty strong evidence of poor PR management.

If the Jays' prospects turn out to be for real, hopefully it happens before the team's veterans are no longer relevant other than on the balance sheet. If that happens and the team makes the playoffs, I WILL concede defeat. The fact remains however that the team has not drafted and developed a single league-average starting pitcher or position player that they've bothered to keep in I-don't-even-know-how-long. They got very little return for Halladay. They claimed a "build from within and use free agency and trades to bring in the final pieces of the puzzle" strategy, and then despite not being anywhere near playoff contention, they traded some very highly-ranked prospects for league-average talent on mostly gigantic contracts. The inexplicable obsession with Arencibia and horrible misjudgement of Gomes has caused a revolving door at catcher - if they'd properly evaluated Arencibia they would've signed Russ Martin as a starter rather than trotting out possibly the worst catcher in baseball for three seasons before finally giving up and throwing him away for nothing.

I do appreciate your "contributions" as always, China fan.
jerjapan - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#294634) #
Thanks China!  not sure why so much hate round here for AA.  I certainly agree with everyone else that Smoak is about as relevant as Andy Laroche.  Remember him?  Right ....
Vulg - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#294635) #
Smoak seems an odd pickup unless he is going to AAA. His best season has a 1.4 bWAR, lifetime just 1.0 (ie: he was sub-replacement level the rest of his career outside of 2013). I really don't see the point of getting him unless Jay scouts feel he is about to have a breakthrough although none of his stats suggest it outside of his hitting worse at home than on the road lifetime (648 OPS at home, 728 on the road). Very odd.

Well, not that they're going to catch lightning in a bottle a 3rd time, but Joey Bats and EE both started in Toronto as 28 year olds. The former was drafted in the 20th round and the latter in the 9th. Given Smoak's draft pedigree (11th overall - comparisons to Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira), I like the gamble. No, he hasn't done anything to suggest that he'll actually realize his potential in 2015 and he shouldn't be viewed as the solution to what seems to be an inevitable hole at 1B. Nevertheless, he's somebody I've always liked and, at the very least, will offer decent D (fielding percentage and zone ratings seem solid in 2013, 2014) and some promise.
jerjapan - Tuesday, October 28 2014 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#294636) #
Parker, hard to argue that Arizona and Colorado have better farm teams than the Jays - all three are mid-tier farm systems, and the Jays had the best 2014 draft of the bunch.  Definite talent with all three, but IMO the Jays have the most growth potential with their raft of A level talent. 

By citing the Dodgers and Angels as teams who are "trying to win", it sounds to me like your bigger issue is with ownership and payroll, rather than front office management.    I agree with you completely on this front - Rogers are mediocre owners at best, concerned about bottom line over results and fan experience, rudderless, and easy to hate given their other, mediocre non-baseball-team-owning ventures.  changing directions after the big splash acquisitions of the 2012 off-season is super irritating for fans, and undermines the plan that AA seems to have had in place. 

I do not agree that turnover in the coaching staff, or attendance numbers, reflect that badly on AA and his performance.  

Arguing that we haven't drafted league average starting pitcher or position players 'in I-don't-even-know-how-long" seems willfully misleading - obviously, that problem is mostly in the hands of Riccardi - AA, as I continue to argue, has a top 5 drafting record in his run as GM. 

Short list here, but AA has drafted the following players:  Sanchez, Syndergaard, Nicolino, Asher Woj, Dyson, Nolin,  Dalton Pompey, Norris, Pillar, Matt Dean, Dwight Smith Jr, Andy Burns, Stroman, Smoral, Nay, Alford, borucki, Graveman, Dan Jansen, Tellez, Boyd, Hoffman, Pentacost, Reid-Foley and Lane Thomas in his five drafts since 2010. 

A couple of shrewd signings / trades this off season and we are once again seriously in the running for the playoffs, and with our minor league talent and payroll situation going forward (tons of money off the books next year) we are positioned to contend for years to come.

In the meantime, go royals! 

greenfrog - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 12:11 AM EDT (#294637) #
A few years ago, a lot of people liked Smoaking, but most of them quit. Now fans are making healthier choices, like Trout (some of them used to prefer Salmon, Bass, or even Deer). The Red Sox used to stick to Rice, but lately they've been choosing Carp (they've recently started using Chili for some extra kick). Meanwhile, AA is thinking of reducing his grocery bill by cutting out Lindt products altogether.

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#294640) #
He'll have to rip the Joey LeBats Classic from my cold stiff hands.
bpoz - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#294642) #
I like it greenfrog.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#294652) #
I doubt Smoak is going to AAA, mainly because even by declining his option they will have to pay him an arbitration figure (probably around $3M), and I doubt they have any intention of paying that plus his buyout for someone they intend to stash in AAA. Unless payroll is going to skyrocket and they can afford $3M AAA players to join $8M Ricky Romero in Buffalo.

The only possible benefit, and I'm reaching here, is that it would be easy to bench Smoak 2-3 times a week in favor of using Reyes or Bautista at DH (where Edwin slides over to 1B in both scenarios). Either that, or they intend to move Bautista there, which I doubt (although I think it would be a good idea).

I guess we'll know shortly if Lind is in fact traded as talked about.
Original Ryan - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#294654) #
I wouldn't be surprised if Smoak was claimed in order to have an exclusive negotiating window with him, so that the team can non-tender him and then immediately sign him to a cheaper contract. It's what the Athletics tried to do a few years ago when they claimed Edwin Encarnacion off waivers at the end of the year.
#2JBrumfield - Wednesday, October 29 2014 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#294667) #
Joe Maddon will apparently be named the new skipper of the Chicago Cubs. Glad the Jays showed no interest.
Mike Green - Thursday, October 30 2014 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#294680) #
The October 30 birthday club has a wonderful group of everyday players with (appropriately) a sizeable Giant contingent:

C- Dave Valle
1B- Bill Terry
2B- Joe Panik
SS- Jason Bartlett
3B- Jim Ray Hart
RF- Buck Freeman
CF- Desmond Jennings
LF- Ed Delahanty
DH- Danny Tartabull

Bench- Marco Scutaro, Joe Adcock, Charlie Dean (3B), Bobby Bragan (C), Gerald Perry

SP- Jim Perry
SP- Mark Portugal
SP- Pete Conway
SP- Lee Tunnell
SP- Joe Johnson
RP- Scott Garrelts
RP- Ian Snell
RP- Manny Parra
RP- Erik Plantenberg
RP- Lefty Wilkie

Not much pitching after Perry, Portugal and Garrelts, but this club is so good and so deep that I think that they would do very well.   Incidentally, there were position players like Mike Jacobs and Laynce Nix who don't make the roster because the ones in front of them are better. 

Mike Green - Thursday, October 30 2014 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#294683) #
Seitzer departs...and Hendriks returns. My wish granted, and on the day before Halloween yet.
Nigel - Thursday, October 30 2014 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#294684) #
Just in reply to the comments about Smoak above, we here in Vancouver see many Mariners games on SPNW.  Smoak is a below average fielder and cannot hit batting RH at all.  He has value as the LH half of a platoon at DH only and I use the term value loosely.  He will draw some walks and he has medium range power and contact skills batting LH - that's about it.  He truly is a poor man's version of Lind.  His power might go up a notch at Rogers Centre versus Safeco - maybe that's worth a gamble, I don't know.  Smoak is not the answer to any question that the Jays should be asking themselves.  I am worried that they may have a 1B or DH platoon in mind with Mayberry/Smoak if they punt Lind.  That platoon would not be the worst offensive combination but would leave the Jays roster without a lot of positional, defensive or pinch running options off the bench.
Chuck - Thursday, October 30 2014 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#294686) #
Seitzer departs...and Hendriks returns. My wish granted

Expensive use of a wish. We don't get many in life.

Mike Green - Thursday, October 30 2014 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#294687) #
That reminds of a Sesame Street story I used to read the kids- The Cookie Monster's Three Wishes.  The punch line is "never mind, I'll eat the truck".  You can probably figure out the story from there.

Anyways, I obviously would have preferred if Joe Maddon rather than Liam Hendriks had arrived to help me scare off the kids at the door tomorrow night.  I guess I'll have to wait for Festivus for something really big.

#2JBrumfield - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 12:32 AM EDT (#294688) #
I wish the Jays would have traded Nessy to San Diego instead of KC. Then you could have this headline...Where in the World is Nessy - San Diego!
John Northey - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 08:32 AM EDT (#294689) #
Wonder how Billy Butler being made a free agent will change the Lind market, if at all.  KC declined his option.  Last year he had a 95 OPS+, the year before 116.  but for the 4 years before that he averaged a 131 and unlike Lind he actually plays 150+ games a year (from 2009-2014 he played 151+ each season with 600+ PA).   His WAR outside of last year was in the 2-3 range (2.2 to 3.2) which puts him as a $8-12 mil a year player.  His option was $12.5 mil or $1 mil buyout so KC did the right thing.  Odds are someone gets him for $5 mil or less unless someone thinks last year was an oddity that won't be repeated.  He is only entering his age 29 season so he could still get a nice payday closer to $10 mil a year for 2015/16/17 if the right buyer emerges.
SK in NJ - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#294690) #
Smoak has a career 82 wRC+ against LHP, while Lind is at 53. I mean, Smoak is not good against LHP, but he is not "NL pitcher with a bat in his hand" bad against them like Lind is. If he was able to become a better hitter against RHP then you could probably live with him as an everyday player, though he'd still be replacement level or slightly above. His bat really needs to reach the next level to be worth the investment, and I guess we have no choice but to hope it does. The writing for Lind is on the wall.
John Northey - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#294691) #
Just checked FanGraphs... wow is Lind bad vs LHP.  wRC+

Lind vs LHP: 2014: -36 (yes, negative)  Lifetime 59.3
Lind vs RHP: 2014: 164 Lifetime 128

Smoak vs LHP: 2014: 78 Lifetime 82
Smoak vs RHP: 2014: 77 Lifetime 99

What this tells me is Lind has value vs RHP but never let him see a LHP.  Smoak you just don't use as a DH, but he'd be good if he was a SS/2B/CF (which he isn't).

The big question is do the Jays see something in Smoak that the stats don't tell us, and do they see Lind collapsing?  That is the question.

bpoz - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#294692) #
Nov 4th, FAs can sign with any club.
I do not know the other dates. Qualifying offer time frame. Arbitration offered or not offered to players deadline.
vw_fan17 - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#294693) #
One more former Jay note: Padres declined $4M option on Josh Johnson..

They got zilch for their $8M this year - he didn't pitch a single inning for them. Man, I wish I could get on the "free money" train..

James W - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#294694) #
Well he didn't pitch because a ligament in his elbow is torn. That's a heavy price to pay for "free money."
Ron - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#294695) #
The Brewers declined Rickie Weeks option. Weeks is a flawed player but he did hit LHP last season and will probably only get a 1 year/3.5 mil type contract. On the negative side, his D is brutal and injuries have sapped his speed. He also turned down the chance to play in the OF last season. The 2B FA market is extremely thin.
ogator - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#294696) #
The Blue Jays have claimed Andy Dirks on waivers. Another nail into Adam Lind's coffin.
Ron - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#294697) #
The Jays have signed Jeff Francis to a minor league contract with an invite to Spring Training.

So far the Jays have added Justin Smoak, Liam Hendriks, Andy Dirks, and Jeff Francis. I'm sure all 4 of these players will look good in a Bisons uniform.
John Northey - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#294698) #
Reminds me of the winter of 2012-13 when AA did a stack of waiver wires then the big trades.  Wonder if he is stocking up on backups so he is prepared to fill holes in AAA once a trade is made?  One can hope.  It might also be spare parts to fill in any gaps created by trades.
John Northey - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#294699) #
Dirks: vs RHP 278/333/418, vs LHP 265/328/392 - missed 2014 due to injury (40 AAA PA)
Mayberry: vs RHP 224/293/365, vs LHP 269/324/533

Could be a 1/2 decent platoon where both can play the outfield corners (Mayberry -1.0 UZR/150 in LF, +6.5 in RF) (Dirks +5.1 in LF, +8.3 in RF) and CF short term (neither good there) as well as DH.  Dirks is more an everyday player but Mayberry you want in there when a LHP is on the mound.  Could even be Dirks in LF while Pillar/Gose/Pompey split CF and Mayberry is part of a mix at DH.  Pompey hit RHP a bit better in the minors but not anything of note (865 vs 812 OPS last year).  Lots of possibilities as backups if whatever AA's #1 plan doesn't happen.

Mike Green - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#294700) #
Dirks is a potentially useful corner outfielder in a platoon role, if healthy. 

As usual, there are lots of puzzle pieces around and how they fit together is unclear.  One possibility with the talent currently on hand (save for Lind) is Dirks/Mayberry platooning in left, Pompey in center and Gose/Pillar platooning in right with Bautista at first base and Encarnacion DHing.  It's not what I would do, but it would work.

bpoz - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#294701) #
The farm teams have to put on a good show as well. Winning is popular. Buffalo came close, but NH was not too good.
85bluejay - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#294702) #
Cabrera is unlikely to be back, so a Dirks/Mayberry LF is a decent fallback position, but I think Pompey starts in Buffalo - The jays are not going to pay Smoak around 3m to play in Buffalo - he's going to be on the roster, likely 1B at least in a platoon with Valencia
greenfrog - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#294703) #
Another person getting free money in the coming seasons is Rick Renteria. I suppose the money will ease the pain of knowing that Epstein and the Cubs preferred Maddon plus two years of buyout money over him.

You have to admire the Cubs' aggressiveness in going after the best. I wonder what that feels like as a fan.
smcs - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#294704) #
Cabrera is unlikely to be back, so a Dirks/Mayberry LF is a decent fallback position, but I think Pompey starts in Buffalo - The jays are not going to pay Smoak around 3m to play in Buffalo - he's going to be on the roster, likely 1B at least in a platoon with Valencia

There's no point in trying to find a deeper meaning in the moves Anthopolous makes on the waiver wire. He'll drop Dirks or Smoak tomorrow if someone marginally better shows up. I know I asked myself at this time last year "What does the presence of Brent Morel mean for Maicer Izturis?"
Mike Green - Friday, October 31 2014 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#294705) #
Jon Heyman reports on twitter that the Jays will exercise Happ's option.

Trick or treat?
Jonny German - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 06:23 AM EDT (#294707) #
There's no point in trying to find a deeper meaning in the moves Anthopolous makes on the waiver wire. He'll drop Dirks or Smoak tomorrow if someone marginally better shows up.

This. The Jays currently have 4 or 5 legitimate everyday players* and over a dozen that have serious flaws. Platooning at 5 positions is not a feasible or winning strategy.

*Navarro qualifying only if you allow that 120 games is "everyday" for a catcher, and Lawrie qualifying only if you assume he can figure out how to stay healthy.
PeterG - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#294708) #
I agree with picking up the option on Happ. Lind also picked up while Santos declined. No word yet on Morrow or McGowan.
Magpie - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#294709) #
if you allow that 120 games is "everyday" for a catcher

120 games pretty much is everyday for a catcher. Just six guys started that many games behind the plate:

Perez, KCR       143
Lucroy, Mil      133
Montero, Ari     130
Zunino, Sea      125
Gomes, Cle       121
Flowers, CWS     120
China fan - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#294710) #
The Jays have traded Adam Lind for Brewers RHP Marco Estrada. 
dan gordon - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#294711) #
Morrow's and McGowan's options declined. Cabrera given qualifying offer. Happ's and Thole's options picked up.

Estrada has put up some pretty good numbers in prior seasons. 2014 a bit of a downturn for him. Nice K:BB ratio of 508:146 in 541 career IP. career ERA of 4.23, but in 2012 and 2013 he had ERA's of 3.64 and 3.87. Can start or relieve. Same age as Lind, 31. Also, like Lind, has had problems staying healthy. Arb eligible, made $3.3 million last year. Probably makes it easier to trade Dickey or Buehrle, if they want to go that route.
China fan - Saturday, November 01 2014 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#294712) #
I see Marc Hulet tweeting that Estrada is "replacement level."  That's possibly true -- he has an ERA+ of exactly 99 over the past three seasons, and a FIP of 4.06 in those same three seasons -- but I think the Jays needed additional pitching depth for 2015 in case Sanchez and Norris aren't ready for the rotation yet.  He could also be a useful swingman in the Carlos Villanueva mold.  And his presence could make it easier for the Jays to trade Happ or Buehrle if they find good deals for those guys.  A worthwhile acquisition.
Seitzer Departs | 67 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.