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I come from downtown
Born ready for you
Armed with will and determination
And grace, too

Having lived to fight another day, it's time to fight another another day.

Revere, lf        Escobar, ss
Donaldson, 3b  Zobrist, 2b
Bautista, rf  Cain, cf
Encarnacion, dh  Hosmer, 1b
Colabello, 1b Morales, dh
Tulowitzki, ss  Moustakas, 3b
Martin, c  Perez, c
Pillar, cf  Gordon, lf
Goins, 2b  Rios, rf
Price, p  Ventura, p
 photo animalhouse-620x331.jpg

                              Over? Did you say over?
ALCS Game 6 - Price vs Ventura | 76 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Ishai - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#313940) #
Go Jays! Ventura's ripe for the pickin' and the Jays are going to put up some crooked numbers tonight. Woohoo!
uglyone - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#313941) #
we got this.
Richard S.S. - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#313944) #
Unless the Jays can score within the first two innings. I have my doubts on whether they can win.
Gerry - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#313945) #
Price is up and higher up in the zone, no fastballs at the knees so far.
JB21 - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#313946) #
And more importantly, the change is up too.
Jimbag - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#313947) #
2 on, nobody out... C'mon Goins
rtcaino - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#313948) #
"Unless the Jays can score within the first two innings. I have my doubts on whether they can win."   It seems we will be putting this suspicion to the test. [ Reply to This ]
Chuck - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#313949) #
Squander. Squander. Squander. Enough already.
sam - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#313950) #
Ryan Goins has had a rough inning--inability to move runners over and now the Rios slide.
Gerry - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#313951) #
Three runners on second for the Jays, two with no outs and one with one out, and the runners never moved off second. Missed opportunities.
Mike Green - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#313952) #
Some bad luck contributed along with the decision to have Goins taking the first pitch. Little things.
Chuck - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#313953) #
No Smoak for Goins? Yeah, Smoak most likely strikes out. But still.

Important game. Impotent game.

Richard S.S. - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#313954) #
Top of 5th, I noticed one on, no one out and a 3-1 count on Pillar. I get called away and return to find nothing happened. From what I read here, it seems the Jays are swinging at the Pitchers pitches and not hitting what they can hit and leaving what that can't hit. Right now, I think they need to be lucky as good is only taking then so far and that's not far enough.
Mike Green - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#313955) #
Just the right time to remove Price.
Gerry - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#313956) #
Good call, now no cheap hits off Sanchez please.
Gerry - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#313957) #
That wasn't cheap but it hurts.
Mike Green - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#313958) #
Wrong again. I'll just shut up.
Alex Obal - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#313959) #
That's what happens when you warm up the safety blanket!

So glad we got to see Bautista in the playoffs in blue.
BlueJayWay - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#313960) #
This is exciting.
Chuck - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#313961) #
Well done, Jose. Well done. Now they have to kill time until Wade Davis is out of the game and then try to win it in the 10th.
Mike Green - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#313962) #
No Pompey?
Alex Obal - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#313963) #
The plan, according to the manager: Sanchez if the rain doesn't go too long, Osuna, Lowe, and then Stroman.

Say Stroman pitches the 13th and 14th and you win. How many innings is he throwing tomorrow? 0? 5?
Mike Green - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#313964) #
If Stroman pitches in relief today (which I would not recommend), they'll probably start Dickey tomorrow. Stroman could conceivably come on for an inning late.
scottt - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#313965) #
Little Leagues managing. That's how we (East Nepean) lost to BC in the Canadian. Not that I blame anyone.

I'm betting 0 is Cueto's number, but you never know, he might be fine without the man in white.
sam - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 11:54 PM EDT (#313966) #
That's terrible.
sam - Friday, October 23 2015 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#313967) #
3-2 slider, then missing the cut off.
Gerry - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#313968) #
Tough call for Gibby there, you pull Goins for Navarro who doesn't have a hit in the ALCS.
Gerry - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:18 AM EDT (#313969) #
Tying run at third and no-one out and you can't score....the Jays had their chances and didn't deliver.
Gerry - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#313970) #
Bad call on the pitch to Revere but home field advantage comes from the umpires calls. The Jays got the call when Bautista batted at home.
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:22 AM EDT (#313971) #
Robot umps please. Ridiculous. Not only Revere but Navarro.
Gerry - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:23 AM EDT (#313972) #
And finally, that was a fun season.
Mike Green - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:23 AM EDT (#313973) #
Great season. Unhappy ending.

The 2-1 to Revere in the 9th was kind of important. The closer call is part of the home-field advantage.
James W - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:26 AM EDT (#313974) #
As expected, those pitches to Revere and Navarro weren't close to the strike zone. "Royally screwed."

Try to get 'em next year.
AWeb - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:28 AM EDT (#313975) #
Navarro and Revere both get to good counts, and get absolutely screwed by the home plate ump. Davis isn't exactly a "just put the ball in play' kinda' pitcher, when he throws pitches at the upper edge and well outside, what the hell is anyone supposed to do with those? Right, you take balls and they are supposed to be called balls. Navarro struck out on a ball that was just called a strike, and Revere was rightly pissed too on the same damn pitch No one calls that spot either...up and away is not the corner pitches get gifts on very often. I'd rather see them just get mowed down than have something like this piss me off all winter.

TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#313976) #
The closer call is part of the home-field advantage.

This is true. Human umps get intimidated.
JB21 - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#313977) #
That 2-1 pitch was crushing. Not only is Revere at 2-2 instead of 3-1 he now has to expand the zone even further with 2 strikes. The ump took the bat out of his hands.
Chuck - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:36 AM EDT (#313978) #
Calling balls strikes is kind of a specialty of Jeff Nelson's.
snider - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:37 AM EDT (#313979) #
Bautista and Price needed just a little help and they didn't get it. Not from the bullpen or rest of the lineup.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:47 AM EDT (#313980) #
Either the Umpiring crew is incompetent or MLB has instructed the Union (sometime after1993) to never let Toronto get back to the World Series.
Super Bluto - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:52 AM EDT (#313981) #
Or Neither. And we just got beaten by a better team. Congratulations to the Royals. Sure, it wasn't the way I would have ended it, but man, that was a great season. It's so good to care about baseball in October again.
Thank you, Blue Jays.
Alex Obal - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:04 AM EDT (#313982) #
Instant classic right there.

It's hard not to dwell on the 2-1 call given that it probably swung the win probability by more than 20% (!!), but what can you do. That was an incredible performance by Bautista and Price and a fittingly dramatic end to a great season. The world deserved a Game 7.

Very intriguing World Series matchup. It's going to be fun watching these guys try to slap the Mets around. I have this pet theory that Citi Field is the worst BABIP park in baseball. I don't know if it's the off-center batter's eye or the wind patterns or what, but balls just seem to die there, and it's almost like the more they bring the fences in the worse it is for hitters.
Alex Obal - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:09 AM EDT (#313983) #
Oh, and KC's lineup is crazy deep and I didn't fully appreciate that before this series. And in particular Lorenzo Cain is one hell of a player.
Alex Obal - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:10 AM EDT (#313984) #
Oh, and it was going to be "At the Hundredth Meridian" tomorrow, right?
James W - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:13 AM EDT (#313985) #
One of the problems in this series was that the shallow parts of the lineup, the terrible hitters, got hot for a week. Escobar hit .478/.481/.652, and Rios hit .368/.368/.526. At least Perez was what he is.
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:18 AM EDT (#313986) #
And we just got beaten by a better team.

Magpie - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:23 AM EDT (#313987) #
KC's lineup is crazy deep

And they have an unusual approach, which makes them strange to deal with. All modern offences have basically adopted the Babe Ruth-Mickey Mantle approach to hitting. Work the strike zone and wait for a pitch you can knock over the wall. Which makes a certain amount of sense - those are the most productive players, the most productive teams. And the philosophy of modern pitching has evolved accordingly, to deal with those types of hitters. And a central idea is don't fall behind these guys. You can't nibble. You can't put free runners on base, you can't give sluggers chances to swing in hitter's counts.

But the Royals don't play that way, because you simply can't play that way in Kaufman Stadium. It takes home runs out of the game to a significant extent. (The franchise record, set 30 years ago, is still only 36 HRs.) So the Royals put the ball in play and run like hell. And modern theories of pitching aren't quite as applicable. You don't have to throw their hitters as many strikes. Against a team like that, you can nibble and get away with it. You can actually prosper, as Estrada did the other night (the Royals swung at a lot of pitches that weren't strikes.) But that's not what your classic modern pitcher has been taught to do, for very good reasons.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:24 AM EDT (#313988) #
Yeah I don't know. I do think Toronto and KC were the two best teams in the AL, probably in that order.
Magpie - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:28 AM EDT (#313989) #
it was going to be "At the Hundredth Meridian" tomorrow, right?

If the Jays had won tonight, it would have indicated to me that the key to their post-season success was moving promptly to the first track from the next album in chronological sequence. Which would mean "Gift Shop."

I blame myself for trying to wring two tracks out of "Road Apples." A complete disaster.

This is on me, gang. Sorry.
uglyone - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:29 AM EDT (#313990) #
"And we just got beaten by a better team."

.086avg with RISP this series.

0-12 wRISP tonight.

we beat ourselves.
uglyone - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#313991) #
"KC's lineup is crazy deep"

Perez 89ops+
Rios 73ops+
Escobar 68ops+

Bench: Colon 91ops+, Orlando 90ops+, Dyson 87ops+, Butera 46ops+

they looked deep this series, though.
NYJaysFan36 - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#313992) #
That's absolutely right. I object far more to the Top of the 1st, 5th, and Navarro's inability to even hit into a double play than anything the umpires did.
Mylegacy - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 02:05 AM EDT (#313993) #
OK - now can I talk about - 2016?

We'll have an offense (and a defense) for the ages - imagine: Revere/Saunders, Donaldson, Bautista, Tulo/Goins, Travis/Goins, Pillar/Pompey, EE/Colabello/Hauge/Smoak, Martin/Navarro. 'Nuff said 'bout 'dat.

The pitching is a somewhat different picture...

Bodies available as STARTERS include: Dickey (is who he is), Stroman (Ace(ish)), Hutchison (salvageable?), Osuna (Ace(ish) - BUT with only 70 innings this year he'll NEVER be able to last the year), Sanchez (Solid Mid-Rotation Upside - BUT with only 92 innings this year he'll never be able to handle a full rotation load in 16). Other bodies (well sort of bodies for starting) include: Cecil (long shot to start and will be desperately needed in the pen - AND hasn't had enough innings this year to be ready for a full season starting in 16), Francis, Hendriks (maybe a 5th starter in desperate times), Jenkins (another Hendriks perhaps).

In the pen we'd have losers from the above starters and Schultz (I actually like the guy), Tepera, Venditte (could be a Loggy), Rowen (who), Delabar (yawn), Loup (another Loggy).

The offense will be so good (like this year) that we can make it with a starting rotation of: Stroman, Price (or 25 million a year 5 to 8 year contract ACE), Estrada (or 10 to 12 million a year 4 to 6 year contract Near-Ace), Dickey and either Osuna or Sanchez (we'll see in the spring - MOST LIKELY Osuna - with the loser being the closer until late in the season when he'll become the 4th starter to replace the other youngster who will be fried by then) with Hutchson as an almost capable #6 guy.

In the pen: One of O or S, Cecil, Schultz, Tepera, Venditte, Loup, Hendriks, Delabar and another body or two from AA's magic "Hidden Pitching Gems Rolladex" (spelling alert).

We can do this, we have the technology - now - if ONLY Rogers ponies up the green. We could come back next year seriously ready to rumble. Let's start putting the heat on Rogers to come through. Where's Don Cherry when you need him!

Time for a wee one - OK - time for a week of serious drinking...single malt mind you - one does have standards...

Eephus - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 03:19 AM EDT (#313994) #
I blame myself for trying to wring two tracks out of "Road Apples." A complete disaster.

The first (and last) time "complete disaster" should be used anywhere near The Hip's Road Apples. A truly magnificent album, as is Sloan's Navy Blues. Unfortunately, even some of the best local-ish tunes cannot affect the fickle tightness of an important ballgame.

Obviously a lot of immediate thought is going to be directed towards next years team. I'm not worried about disaster (unless Disaster decides to be a vengeful bitch) because this offense will return intact (plus Devon Travis). Bringing back pitching will be interesting, considering the bullpen (KC kinda exposed us, eh?) and the three big starters due to leave. If they lose everyone and replace them with ghosts, well then I'll be worried. I don't expect that to happen... probably...
ISLAND BOY - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 05:19 AM EDT (#313995) #
As the pain of losing subsides, I just want to thank the Jays for giving us a wild ride from the end of July until now. I think to win you sometimes have to learn from losing, and I am sure the team will show up at spring training with an even deeper determination to win it all. There will probably be a few new faces, but AA has mentioned how in September of last year he changed his mindset toward the players he tried to acquire. He now values leadership and a will to win ( Donaldson and Martin ), not just skill only. Of course, getting AA's name on a new contract is the first thing to be done. Thanks to everybody for their informative, interesting, and sometimes funny comments this year. While it could have been slightly better, it has truly been a wonderful season of baseball.
Thomas - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 08:47 AM EDT (#313996) #
There are a lot of "What If" moments from yesterday's game, which sting and probably will do so for a while.

But a great team gave us a great ride in a very exciting season. The Blue Jays won the AL East. The Blue Jays won a playoff series after losing the first two games. There was baseball in October. Who would have thought that was going to happen in mid-July?
ayjackson - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#313997) #
Mylegacy, you forgot that our closer will be 21 year-old Connor Greene.
ayjackson - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#313998) #
While the big offseason story will be the shaping of the starting rotation, the DH/1B logjam also bears watching.

I imagine the outfield will feature Revere/Pillar/Pompey/Saunders and Jose will take over 1B (with a new contract in hand). But what will they do with EE and Colabello - go cheap or expensive?
vw_fan17 - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#313999) #
ayjackson - what do you mean about EE/Cola at 1B? EE has a team option for 2016. No way in the world do you NOT pick up that option. And no way do you NOT keep Cola, the way he hit. EE/Cola each get ~70 games at 1B, or something.. Unless you trade one of them for pitching. No room for Jose there, unless you trade one of them.
ayjackson - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#314000) #
That's the point. Think it's time for Jose to move from the outfield, as we have many options there. Do you extend EE to be DH, let him play out his option at DH, or trade him and go with Colabello.
scottt - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#314001) #
EE can veto any trades and probably likes Toronto.
sam - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#314008) #
I'll wait for the analytics crowd to smash me on this, but Jose is a pretty good RF. I'm unsure we'd find someone substantially better to play out there. Also, keep in mind doing something like that would seriously compromise the club's relationship with Jose going into a walk year.

I take the point that hard decisions will need to be made next offseason related to Bautista and Encarnacion, but I think you have to ride those guys until the production just isn't there. I don't think we've reached that point with Jose.
Gerry - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#314011) #
Just from my own lying eyes I don't think Jose is a good right fielder any more. He has a good arm but his speed is diminished and he seems to be poor going back on balls. He could be league average, and I have not looked at any stats, but to me if you send him back out to right next year be willing to have him make fewer plays than a good right fielder.
uglyone - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#314023) #
an absolute must read:
Mike Green - Saturday, October 24 2015 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#314035) #
My closing thoughts on this series with responses to some of the comments here:

1. Kansas City is a good club.  Their offence is really not as different from the Blue Jays as might appear.  The Jays had more power and were more likely to draw walks and to strike out, but the Jays did not strike out that much.  The Royals are, of course, a fantastic contact club, but they do have more power than you would think, as we found out in this series.  Ben Zobrist is still a very good player, if not one of top five players in the league as he might have been three or four years ago.  He was the perfect addition to the Royals and improved their offence quite a bit, more than the Tulowitzki addition did for the Jays. Zobrist's ability to reach base was a particularly good fit for a long-sequence offence.

2. The Royals are vulnerable (as Price demonstrated yesterday) to a left-hander with a good (or even decent) curveball.  The loss of Brett Cecil was particularly painful and in my view, probably hurt the Jays more than Holland's loss hurt the Royals. I don't know what the story was with Mark Buehrle.  This business of bringing him back with a sore arm to try to get 200 innings for a 14th straight season seems awfully stat-conscious to me for a playoff club.  The club was shallow in left-handed pitching, and I'd rather have seen him brought in for an inning or two of relief during the last week so that he could have potentially helped out the club in the playoffs.  I sure would rather have had him on the roster than Tepera (and as it turned out Hawkins).  Buehrle is a team guy and I have trouble believing that he wouldn't have wanted to help out in that way.

3. Russell Martin was not at his best.  He struggled catching Dickey early and late in the season and with those struggles came offensive stagnation.  Lesson: next year it is either Dickey/Thole or Estrada/Navarro, but not both. 

4. Lorenzo Cain is indeed an excellent overall player.  I think that he's lost quickness in the field, but he has more than made up for it with improvements at the plate.  The Royals' defence is not spectacular.  There is no one making plays like Devon White or Kevin Kiermaier or Ozzie Smith or even Ryan Goins.  It is just solid and efficient and good all the way around the diamond (Perez is an excellent handler, but his arm isn't as strong as Martin's).  They are somewhat weaker on the right side (Zobrist isn't as good as he once was and neither is Rios), but the Jays don't hit that way often...

5. There were two games that could have gone either way.  The Jays lost both, and that was an exaggerated version of a not-so-pleasant theme of the season. 

TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#314038) #
It's hard not to dwell on the 2-1 call given that it probably swung the win probability by more than 20%

What Alex says here seems to be spot-on, according to a commenter at FanGraphs -- that one call on Revere (never mind the same mistake with Navarro) swung our chances from 60% victory to 40%. That's a huge difference on a pitch that wasn't even close.


From FanGraphs:

Using league averages, that call switches the odds of at least a tie from 60/40 in the Blue Jays favor to 60/40 Royals.

The (big) caveat is that Wade Davis had a great year after 3-1 counts ( small sample size and also out of line with his career stats ).

So if you want to say it didnít matter because 2015 Wade Davis, then maybe it didnít matter. But outside of that, youíre looking at a pretty hefty difference. The league average BA/OBP after a 3-1 count is .278/.574, and after a 2-2 count is .189/.286
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#314039) #
There's also this from Jeff Sullivan (at FanGraphs):

The Jays would tell you they didnít execute well enough in big situations. That was the story of the whole ninth inning. But just so itís acknowledged and not forgotten, with two on in the fifth, Josh Donaldson lined out to Mike Moustakas. According to Statcast, Donaldson hadnít hit a baseball harder all year long.
electric carrot - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 12:34 AM EDT (#314040) #
an absolute must read:

I read it.  Interesting indeed.   It occurred to me later that the Jays made a few interesting decisions on the base paths that may equally have come from excellent scouting.  Both Pillar, and of course Pompey made what I thought were impactful, daring but also successful stolen base attempts in those last two games. 
JB21 - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#314045) #
Italics off!
JB21 - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#314046) #
did it work?

I found the SI article to be a little too much of a narrative to me. Was Price tipping his pitches from the 1st to the 6th when he was almost perfect? He just happened to start tipping them in the 7th? Seems odd.

JB21 - Sunday, October 25 2015 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#314047) #
Italics off???
Michael - Monday, October 26 2015 @ 02:12 AM EDT (#314063) #
@JB21 The theory in the article was Price tips the change up when pitching from the stretch (or possibly only when pitching from the stretch against LHP):

"Pitching from the stretch when he threw a changeup, Price would take an extra deep breath, one where you could see his shoulders shrug, and he would hold his set a beat longer."

And they further said it might not have been 100%, but even if it is 80+%, that is good enough to make a big difference.

And in the earlier innings when he was doing so well he didn't need to pitch from the stretch, so no tip.
JB21 - Monday, October 26 2015 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#314077) #
Ahhh, right. Although Price doesn't really pitch from the windup, that makes sense. I guess he discovered his issue and fixed it for G6.
Mike Green - Monday, October 26 2015 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#314086) #
Nope.  He mostly went to the curveball in Game 6 after Moustakas' controversial homer. 

The change is often a dubious weapon against a same-sided hitter.  If the hitter has an edge knowing that it probably is coming, it can be hazardous for the pitcher.  

JB21 - Monday, October 26 2015 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#314092) #
Definitely, but it's not like he buried those changeups. If you hang a changeup, regardless if the hitter is looking for it or not, bad things are going to happen.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 27 2015 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#314144) #
a wee bit frustrating seeing the royals make clutch errors and missed hitting assignments here in game 1.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 27 2015 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#314145) #

and then there's that.

gotta respect the clutchitude of that fricken team.
ALCS Game 6 - Price vs Ventura | 76 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.