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The Jays visit the former Enron field this weekend to see their former teammate Francisco Liriano.

Series Schedule/Probable Starters

Friday @ 8:10 pm ET - Cesar Valdez (1-0, 5.00) vs. Brad Peacock (9-1, 2.62)
Saturday @ 7:10 pm ET - Marco Estrada (4-7, 5.19) vs. Charlie Morton (9-4, 3.77)
Sunday @ 2:10 pm ET - Marcus Stroman (10-5, 3.19) vs. Mike Fiers (7-6, 3.97)
Blue Jays @ Astros - August 4-6 | 56 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
hypobole - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 01:27 AM EDT (#346563) #
Wow. 53 runs surrendered to the Astros in the 5 games so far. When they play the Jays the question isn't "when's first pitch?", it's "when's tee-off time?"
Chuck - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 05:34 AM EDT (#346565) #
This Astros lineup will be a pushover without their 3 best players. Wait. What? Never mind.
PeterG - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#346577) #
Taylor Cole has been called up by Jays according to his college coach at BYU on Twitter. Hope this info is good. I was expecting roster movement among pitchers. He is a real sleeper prospect imo and it would not surprise me if he succeeds.
PeterG - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#346580) #
Bolsinger DFA.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#346582) #
Ball 2 to Reddick was a 0% call, 8 inches from the edge of the plate.
Nigel - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#346583) #
Why would Carrera not get into the lineup against Morton and when Estrada is on the mound for the Jays? I have tried to think of every conceivable explanation. I have nothing. At this point, I hope Gibbons is being ordered to play this lineup by Atkins/Shapiro.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#346584) #
Carrera will probably get a start tomorrow with Stroman starting. It's not what I would do.
Nigel - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#346585) #
If he does I will just shake my head. Morton's career splits versus L/R aren't exactly a state secret.
lexomatic - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#346586) #
Looks like maybe Estrada wants to get traded now?
hypobole - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#346587) #
Morton changed his pitch mix and added velocity. He's been killing lefties this year.
obo - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#346588) #
I thought Refsnyder was going to be thrown out by 10 feet there.
obo - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#346589) #
Also, awesome slide by Refsnyder.   At first I thought he'd missed the plate completely.
dan gordon - Saturday, August 05 2017 @ 11:38 PM EDT (#346590) #
Newcomer Taylor Cole hasn't pitched much this year, some rehab appearances and a handful of Buffalo games, but the results have been impressive. In 12 2/3 IP, he has allowed only 6 hits, 2 walks, no runs and has 16 strikeouts. This is his 7th year with the organization. He's been a fringy prospect, typically with ERA's in the 3's or low 4's. He's had some injury trouble along the way, and has had a couple of good seasons in there to keep the hopes alive. I read that he's been throwing at 92-94 with his fastball, and has a good changeup. Nice to see him get a shot, and the Jays get a look to see if they want to keep him around, as he could have left after this season as a minor league free agent.
bpoz - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#346591) #
Agreed lexomatic about Estrada. I too noticed that he has had a string of decent outings lately.

Taylor Cole up. Good to see that the FO is trying to get a look at some fringy players. See what they have. Has 3 options if kept on the 40 man roster.

hypobole - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#346593) #
Buck and Pat keep raving about Goins' hitting with runners in scoring position, so after last nights clutch game winner, I thought I'd take a look.

247 MLB players have had 60 PA's with RISP. And yeah Goins has come through, ranking 38th with a hefty 152 wRC+, just behind team leader Smoak's 154.

Then there's the other end of the spectrum. Russ Martin 216th - 62 wRC+, Morales 222nd - 56, Barney 235th - 49, Tulo 237th - 45.

And finally there's Kevin Pillar sporting an amazing 7 wRC+ with RISP, placing him dead last of the 247 players and it's not even close - 2nd worst is the Rockies Cargo at 26 wRC+.

jerjapan - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#346594) #
Tough start to his bullpen role for Liriano in Houston.  I'm pulling for him, but remain plenty skeptical. 

Agreed that it's nice to see the fringe prospects get a shot.  Cole is familiar with Toronto - this is where he did his Mormon mission, which kept him out of the game for 2 years.  I have a lot of respect for the young man, but also think he has bullpen potential.  Now lets get Dwight Smith and Roemon Fields up here.  John Stilson and Chris Rowley could work out of the pen as well.  I lobbied for J-Leb a few months ago, but the poor guy has collapsed offensively post AS game. 

The longshot prospect I most hope to see is Carlos Ramirez.  22 2/3 IPs, 0ER, 27 Ks in AA.  The last Jays' longshot reliever with numbers like this was Danny Barnes. 

jerjapan - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#346595) #
Nice trade for Seattle, landing Yonder Alonso for Boog Powell, a C prospect according to Sickels in February.  No wonder we didn't move Pearce or Smoak at the deadline, that is a marginal return for a guy having a great year.  Alonso is a big upgrade on Danny Valencia.  Apparently, after the M's claimed him on waivers, the A's were left with no leverage.  Jerry Dipoto may be a mad scientist, but it's fun watching him wheel and deal.
SK in NJ - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#346596) #
This season has been so bad that when I saw the Jays were up 6-3 in the 9th with Osuna on the mound I was anticipating a blown save. It's been one of those seasons where you are just waiting for it to end but it feels like it's lasting an eternity.

As bad as this season has gone, the past four Osuna blown saves (all in the 2nd half) have been very costly. Difference between 56-55 and 52-59. Despite every bad thing that's happened this season, the Jays could have realistically been right there with leads in the 9th that disappeared. Even if he saves 3 of the 4, the Jays are still there. The volatile life of a reliever. Just have to hope he's OK and not pitching through something.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#346597) #
Any reason why Osuna's gone away from throwing his four-seamer? Or it is the beginning of something bigger?
jgadfly - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#346598) #
Urena's MiLB page listing next Opponent as NY Yankees ... presuming that means he's been called up ...
prospect - Sunday, August 06 2017 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#346599) #
I doubt it. The MiLB player pages do that sometimes.
Mike Green - Monday, August 07 2017 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#346601) #
Looking on the bright side, they got nice outings from Stroman and Leone yesterday. Stroman rebounded nicely after the defence didn't come through for him.

It's been an unusual season for Osuna.  He started off struggling, and then was lights out for almost 3 months, and has struggled again for the last 2 and 1/2 weeks. The Astros are obviously an excellent offensive club, easily the best in baseball, and they didn't let him escape when he didn't have his best stuff.  Amazing that they were missing Correa and Springer.  Depth.

85bluejay - Monday, August 07 2017 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#346602) #
The Mariners are emptying the farm to make the playoffs (WC) - longest playoff drought,aging & expensive vets will make FO do that - Seattle should go after Estrada especially with their plus outfield defense - if the jays put Estrada on waivers, Seattle is in a good position to claim him & then work out a trade before they move ahead of competitors.
jerjapan - Monday, August 07 2017 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#346603) #
RIP Darren Daulton and Don Baylor.  I remember Daulton well from the Phillies, they were such a fun group of characters, and worthy rivals -  Carter's HR is still the greatest moment in Jays history. 

I don't remember Baylor the player, but looking back on his career, a 52 SB season as a slugger is remarkable. 

Chuck - Monday, August 07 2017 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#346604) #
Baylor had a long, successful career, and I am aware of this, so this isn't intended to besmirch the man.

When I think of him, I think of three things: the HBPs, his ill-deserved MVP award and a Bill James nugget of insight at a time when baseball analysis was just starting to go places.

He ranks 4th in career HBP. He would never flinch when a ball came his way. I see him listed as 6-1, 190, but that doesn't align with the behemoth I am picturing. Maybe he was 190 pounds during his fleet-footed days. He weren't no 190 pounds when he was getting plunked 25 times a year.

Nowadays, most sportswriters would have the wherewithal to recognize that Baylor was not even close to being the best player on his team in 1979, let alone the league as a whole. But that was a different time, when runs batted in meant everything. Everything. Bobby Grich missed out on a lot of love back in the day.

The Bill James Abstracts became commercially available in the early 1980s. We haven't discussed them for a while, but a great many in these parts might only know James as an old, crotchety guy. Way back in the day, he was a young crotchety guy whose analysis was leading edge. Much of what he said is obvious now, but it wasn't then. When newspapers published team batting totals, they were sorted by batting average. He asked, why not runs? I remember reading that and thinking, duh, he's absolutely right. Why had I never questioned that? With regards to Baylor, who experienced a rebirth as a Yankee, James was quick to point out that because the Yankees saw so much left-handed pitching, the RH Baylor got to face lefties 48% of the time in 1983 and just clobbered them (the OPS split was 1025/705, though of course that language would not have been used then). Again, not a deep insight by today's standards, but eye-opening at the time. Of course anyone who played Strat-O-Matic would have recognized this dramatic skew on his card.

I think the biggest surprise to me was the length of his managerial career. I can't even picture him managing the Cubs though I'm sure I was conscious and upright those three years.

dan gordon - Monday, August 07 2017 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#346605) #
Baylor was pretty even in steals and HR's for his career, giving him a very good career power/speed number of 309, the 21st highest of all time. Daulton was only 55. Brain cancer.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#346609) #
Don Baylor.  I do remember him playing when he was a relatively leaner young man.  He went 24-2 stealing bases in his first year- Earl Weaver must have loved that.  He arrived just as Don Buford's career was winding down.  Buford had been a terrific LF/leadoff type for 4 years in Baltimore, but at 35 was winding down his career and Baylor was the next (although not destined for the leadoff role). 

I've learned a few things since his death that I did not know previously.  He was born in Austin, Texas, and went to school as they were just being integrated.  He was the first African-American in his high school to play any sport (he played both football and baseball).  Later on, he was a player rep for the union.  I guess all the HBPs fit with his history- he'd probably seen worse than a fastball to the shoulder.
Magpie - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#346610) #
a different time, when runs batted in meant everything.

Baylor also led the league in runs scored in 1979, not that anyone cared very much who was actually scoring the runs. He batted fourth in all 162 games and hit .330 with RISP. He was hitting behind Rick Miller (.367 OBP) Carney Lansford (.329), and Rod Carew (.418) with Dan Ford (.333) also seeing lots of action at the top of the lineup (Carew missed half the season.)

Brian Downing, with his .418 OBP, generally hit sixth or seventh.

I don't remember him when he was young and fast. I vividly remember him in his final years, moving from team to team - and those teams promptly winding up in the World Series (Boston in '86, Twins in '87, Oakland in '88.) We heard a great deal about his veteran leadership, and how he would surely be a fine manager some day. He was likely a more effective manager than he ever got credit for.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#346611) #
Trivia time.  Baylor is one of two players who appeared in three consecutive World Series for different teams.  Who is the other?
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#346613) #
No guesses after 1/2 hour.  Hint: he was a Blue Jay for 5 years before his streak.
Spifficus - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#346614) #
Got it first guess.
Hint for others - In those three Word Series, he was 1 for 3 with a walk and a HR.
JohnL - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#346615) #
Strange that I also knew the answer about the "lucky" ex-Blue Jay.
mathesond - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#346616) #
5 years a jay, eh? Makes me think of Alomar, but I can't see him w/3 different WS teams - Indians and Mets, maybe, but not a 3rd.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#346617) #
You're a ringer, JohnL!

Darren Daulton's career path was a lot like Josh Donaldson's (without the move from behind the plate).  I wondered if he had had success in the minor leagues at a younger age, and it turned out that he had.  He had a great but odd season at age 21 in the Eastern League.  He hit .262/.425/.486 with a 28/11 SB/CS.  He hit 19 homers, walked 106 times and struck out 87 times in 603 PAs.  It looks like he was uppercutting even back then (and hence the low BABIP), but had the great strike zone judgment that reappeared at the major league level 6-7 years later. 
92-93 - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#346618) #
Eric Hinske's career was an odd one. He hit .279/.365/.481 as a rookie over 650 PA, posting a 4+ WAR. He would never come anywhere close to the R, HR, and RBI totals that he posted as a 24 year old, though he did show some durability again a couple of years later. Are there other examples of guys who had fantastic rookie seasons but could never duplicate that success?
scottt - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#346619) #
Gary Sanchez will likely never come close to replicating his first year output and he's getting benched now because they don't like his defense.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#346620) #
It's funny- the two AL ROYs after Hinske were Bobby Crosby and Angel Berroa.  Crosby had one half-season as good as his rookie year, and that was it.  Berroa never did.  Other examples: Pat Listach, Alvin Davis (although he did have some pretty good years in there), Joe Charbonneau and Walt Dropo. 
Chuck - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#346621) #
Are there other examples of guys who had fantastic rookie seasons but could never duplicate that success?

Old rookies seem to be more prone to this. And by old, I mean even as young as 24. There are exceptions of course (even HoF caliber exceptions: Boggs, Piazza, E. Martinez), but in general, an old rookie's success should give an organization pause.

Chuck - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#346622) #
Add Mitchell Page to the list.
bpoz - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#346623) #
Who had a better career. Alfredo Griffin or the guy who beat him for ROY?
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#346624) #
I looked up John Castino to find out what happened to him.  He had a few good years after sharing the ROY with Griffin, but was out of baseball by age 29 because of a congenital back problem that had become much worse.  It looks like he signed a long term contract in February 1984, missed most of April, got into 8 games and tore the cover off the ball (.444/.531/.481) and never played another game in his career.  I can't imagine that the Twins were too happy about that. 
Chuck - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#346625) #
Eric Hinske's career

Re Hinske, one word: ouch.

bpoz - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#346626) #
Thanks Mike. I did not know that he was a co winner.

ROY is nice. Very nice. But there are ineligibility rules. D Steib and J Guzman had great starts to their careers but it was a mid season call up. P Hentgen had a great sophmore year I believe.

Bo and Vlad could face the same problem.
mathesond - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#346628) #
Ouch indeed. Banana Republic?
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#346629) #
With the hitting being a little more consistent, August was looking like a season-changing month. Then Osuna's problem arose changing again my view of the season.

So someone tell my again how good 2018 will be. Is Roberto Osuna going to ever throw his four-seamer again or can't he pitch in the 94-96 range ever again? Is Sanchez's blister issue solved or are we getting more 36.0 IP seasons? Is it possible to get more than 100 games played from Devon Travis or will it be another 50-60 games played? So someone tell me how good 2018 will be.
Kasi - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#346630) #
Good questions Richard. I think it shows the folly of assumptions on how good the young players are and that depending on a few core players for so much can be disappointing.

On your questions I think Osuna will be fine but will never be the superstar closer that some thought he was. It is worrying he's seeing a velocity dip at this young an age though. Sanchez I feel most confidant that he'll get past his injury issues, but will he ever have a year as good as 2016? I'm not sure he will. And on Travis I just don't know. Until he stops getting injured so much I don't think anyone has an idea of how he'll develop.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#346631) #
I wondered how Jose Altuve's age 26-27 seasons stacked up among second basemen.  The answer: pretty clearly the 2nd best performance by a second baseman over that period.  The best would be Eddie Collins 2013-14.  Collins won an MVP award in his age 27 season, and had been great for 6 years running by that point. 

Over his career so far, the most similar second baseman is probably Rod Carew.  Regular batting champ, less than great fielder.  Carew's pop developed a little later.

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#346632) #
And Valdez to the DL.  TJ House is scheduled to pitch tonight for Buffalo, but it wouldn't surprise me if he is held back so that he can make the start in TO tomorrow.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#346633) #
The best would be Eddie Collins 2013-14.

Give or take 100 years.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#346634) #
Bill James pointed out that Collins was great in four decades.  2010-19 was not one of them...
ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#346638) #
Collins had an astounding 124 WAR over his career.
vw_fan17 - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#346641) #
Give or take 100 years.

Thanks.. I was wondering how I missed the greatest 2nd baseman of all time playing in the last few years.. :-)
Chuck - Tuesday, August 08 2017 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#346642) #
Yeah, but if you play for 100 years, is it really that impressive?
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, August 09 2017 @ 07:10 AM EDT (#346645) #
Heh, he was losing his speed toward the end though. Not many infield hits when you have to leg them out using a walker.
Chuck - Wednesday, August 09 2017 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#346646) #
Not many infield hits when you have to leg them out using a walker.

This is a physics question. Will Kendrys Morales be any slower when he starts using a walker? If so, will he be so slow that he moves backwards through time?

bpoz - Wednesday, August 09 2017 @ 08:37 AM EDT (#346647) #
I really love the good humor that chuck has provided over the years. Nice one ISLAND BOY.

Blue Jays @ Astros - August 4-6 | 56 comments | Create New Account
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