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This road trip will take the Jays to two of the most historically extreme parks in the game. 

Time for lots and lots of Data Tables. If I don't use these skills, I might lose them.

As everyone knows, Coors Field does more to boost offense than any other park in the majors, as a quick look at the runs scored and allowed in the games the Rockies have played there compares with what they and their opponents have done in the other parks.

                                                      Home Park Road Game  Offensive
Team    Park    Since   Scoring   Scoring    Impact
                        
Colorado    Coors Field    1995    28217    20417        1.38
Miami    Loan Depot Park    2012    2837    2516        1.13
Arizona    Chase Field    1998    20456    18839        1.09
Boston    Fenway Park    1912    85207    78476        1.09
Cincinnati    Great American Ball Park    2003    16303    15415        1.06
Chicago Cubs    Wrigley Field    1916    76820    72912        1.05
Toronto    Rogers Centre    1989    26080    25431        1.03
NY Yankees    Yankee Stadium II    2009    10671    10414        1.02
Philadelphia    Citizens Bank Park    2004    15179    14836        1.02
Atlanta    Truist Park    2017    5550    5471        1.01
Milwaukee    American Family Field    2001    17051    16833        1.01
Minnesota    Target Field    2010    10792    10667        1.01
Chicago White Sox  Rate Field    1991    25079    24918        1.01
Texas    Globe Life Field    2020    3231    3213        1.01
Baltimore    Oriole Park at Camden Yards  1992    24600    24644        1.00
Kansas City    Kauffman Stadium    1973    38200    38321        1.00
Detroit    Comerica Park    2000    18215    18321         .99
Cleveland    Progressive Field    1994    22715    22952         .99
Houston    Daikin Park    2000    17634    17892         .99
Pittsburgh    PNC Park    2001    16574    16930         .98
LA Angels    Angel Stadium    1966    40196    41820         .96
Washington    Nationals Park    2008    10923    11606         .94
Tampa Bay    Tropicana Field    1998    18640    19809         .94
St, Louis    Busch Stadium II    2006    12567    13449         .93
San Francisco    Oracle Park    2000    16326    17728         .92
Oakland    Oakland Coliseum    1968    38132    41852         .91
LA Dodgers    Dodger Stadium    1962    38204    43032         .89
NY Mets    Citi Field    2009    10020    11365         .88
Seattle    T-Mobile Park    1999    16287    18550         .88
San Diego    Petco Park    2004    12983    15075         .86


Coors Field is, in fact, the most hitter friendly park in major league history. Nothing else is close - the Braves' former home, Fulton County Stadium (which was actually known as "The Launching Pad") is a distant second among all the ball parks that hosted at least 1,000 games. (Fulton County's Offensive Impact was a comparatively negligible 1.12)

Can a team win in an extreme park? Teams have certainly won championships in extreme pitcher's parks. Dodger Stadium, the Jays next stop after Colorado, has always been one. The version of Yankee Stadium where Ruth and Gehrig was also one of the greatest pitcher's parks in baseball history and those Yankees teams won some titles. But even the gretest pitcher's parks, which must also include Houston's old Astrodome as well as San Diego's Petco Park (the toughest place to score runs ever) have suppressed offense to anything near the same degree that Coors Field boosts it. 

It is true that the best hitter's parks have not fared quite as well as the best pitcher's parks. Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are two of the most famous hitter's parks in the game's history, and their teams have both won championships during the last decade. We should note, however, that both ancient parks, while still being hitter-friendly, did much more to boost offense fifty years ago (before they built the new Fenway press box in the 1980s and before Wrigley finally got lights) than they do today.

Historically, the home team normally wins about 54% of the time. Observe!

Decade          AL      NL

1893-1900      ---     .607

1901-1910     .569     .534  
1911-1920     .538     .536
1921-1930     .545     .548
1931-1940     .549     .549
1941-1950     .552     .541

1951-1960     .535     .544
1961-1970     .540     .540
1971-1980     .535     .541
1981-1990     .545     .536
1991-2000     .529     .542

2001-2010     .550     .539
2011-2020     .534     .534
2021-2024     .522     .536

ALL TIME      .541     .543


So that's your normal Home-Road split. But Coors Field is an extreme park. Do the Rockies have a Home Field Advantage? 

Well, here is how everyone has done at home since moving into their current park. (I believe we need a sample size of at least 1,000 games before we can begin to draw conclusions on this type of issue, so feel free to disregard whatever numbers are coughed up for the Braves, the Marlins, and the Rangers.

Team                  Park                       Since      G      W      L       PCT
                            
NY Yankees    Yankee Stadium II    2009    1246    766    480     .615
LA Dodgers    Dodger Stadium    1962    4989   2919   2070     .585
St, Louis    Busch Stadium II    2006    1484    857    627     .577
Atlanta    Truist Park    2017    596    344    252     .577
Boston    Fenway Park    1912    8795   4985   3810     .567
Cleveland    Progressive Field    1994    2417   1362   1055     .564
San Francisco    Oracle Park    2000    1979   1107    872     .559
Philadelphia    Citizens Bank Park    2004    1655    918    737     .555
Oakland    Oakland Coliseum    1968    4504   2496   2008     .554
Houston    Daikin Park    2000    1971   1087    884     .551
Colorado    Coors Field    1995    2371   1283   1088     .541
Toronto    Rogers Centre    1989    2746   1485   1261     .541
Milwaukee    American Family Field    2001    1895   1016    879     .536
Chicago Cubs    Wrigley Field    1916    8530   4552   3978     .534
Tampa Bay    Tropicana Field    1998    2136   1139    997     .533
Seattle    T-Mobile Park    1999    1972   1046    926     .530
Chicago White Sox    Rate Field    1991    2666   1409   1257     .529
LA Angels    Angel Stadium    1966    4678   2462   2216     .526
NY Mets    Citi Field    2009    1244    648    596     .521
Arizona    Chase Field    1998    2136   1112   1024     .521
San Diego    Petco Park    2004    1652    857    795     .519
Kansas City    Kauffman Stadium    1973    4090   2108   1982     .515
Washington    Nationals Park    2008    1327    682    645     .514
Minnesota    Target Field    2010    1165    594    571     .510
Texas    Globe Life Field    2020    354    180    174     .508
Cincinnati    Great American Ball Park    2003    1729    874    855     .505
Detroit    Comerica Park    2000    1970    990    980     .503
Baltimore    Oriole Park at Camden Yards  1992    2584   1293   1291     .500
Pittsburgh    PNC Park    2001    1891    945    946     .500
Miami    Loan Depot Park    2012    324    152    172     .469


And here is how they have done in their road games during the same period:

Team                   Park                      Since       G     W      L       PCT
                            
Atlanta    Truist Park    2017    597    332    265     .556
NY Yankees    Yankee Stadium II    2009    1244    658    586     .529
LA Dodgers    Dodger Stadium    1962    4989   2559   2430     .513
Cleveland    Progressive Field    1994    2431   1221   1210     .502
St, Louis    Busch Stadium II    2006    1489    747    742     .502
San Francisco    Oracle Park    2000    1966    945   1021     .481
Houston    Daikin Park    2000    1976    942   1033     .477
Philadelphia    Citizens Bank Park    2004    1645    784    861     .477
Oakland    Oakland Coliseum    1968    4496   2118   2379     .471
Seattle    T-Mobile Park    1999    1976    929   1047     .470
Toronto    Rogers Centre    1989    2756   1293   1463     .469
NY Mets    Citi Field    2009    1246    583    663     .468
Boston    Fenway Park    1912    8843   4119   4672     .466
LA Angels    Angel Stadium    1966    4703   2177   2473     .463
Milwaukee    American Family Field    2001    1891    871   1020     .461
Chicago White Sox    Rate Field    1991    2671   1224   1447     .458
Arizona    Chase Field    1998    2136    975   1161     .456
Washington    Nationals Park    2008    1323    603    720     .456
Minnesota    Target Field    2010    1163    527    636     .453
San Diego    Petco Park    2004    1649    746    903     .452
Chicago Cubs    Wrigley Field    1916    8461   3815   4646     .451
Tampa Bay    Tropicana Field    1998    2134    952   1182     .446
Baltimore    Oriole Park at Camden Yards  1992    2641   1163   1427     .440
Cincinnati    Great American Ball Park    2003    1736    761    975     .438
Detroit    Comerica Park    2000    1974    851   1122     .431
Kansas City    Kauffman Stadium    1973    4153   1722   2431     .415
Miami    Loan Depot Park    2012     324    130    194     .401
Pittsburgh    PNC Park    2001    1890    753   1137     .398
Texas    Globe Life Field    2020     354    138    216     .390
Colorado    Coors Field    1995    2370    918   1452     .387


And here, finally, is everyone ranked by the difference in their performance at home and on the road.

				                         Team   Home    Road	Park
Team	               Park	                 Since	Games	PCT	PCT	Advantage
						
Colorado	     Coors Field	          1995    4741	 .541	 .387	 .154
Texas	             Globe Life Field	          2020	   708	 .508	 .390	 .119
Pittsburgh	     PNC Park	                  2001	  3781	 .500	 .398	 .101
Boston	             Fenway Park   	          1912	 17638	 .567	 .466	 .101
Kansas City	     Kauffman Stadium	          1973	  8243	 .515	 .415	 .101
Tampa Bay	     Tropicana Field	          1998	  4270	 .533	 .446	 .087
NY Yankees	     Yankee Stadium II	          2009	  2490	 .615	 .529	 .086
Oakland	             Oakland Coliseum	          1968	  9000	 .554	 .471	 .083
Chicago Cubs	     Wrigley Field	          1916	 16991	 .534	 .451	 .083
San Francisco	     Oracle Park	          2000	  3945	 .559	 .481	 .079
Philadelphia	     Citizens Bank Park	          2004	  3300	 .555	 .477	 .078
St, Louis	     Busch Stadium II	          2006	  2973	 .577	 .502	 .076
Milwaukee	     American Family Field	  2001	  3786	 .536	 .461	 .076
Houston	             Daikin Park	          2000	  3947	 .551	 .477	 .075
LA Dodgers	     Dodger Stadium	          1962	  9978	 .585	 .513	 .072
Toronto	             Rogers Centre	          1989	  5502	 .541	 .469	 .072
Detroit	             Comerica Park	          2000	  3944	 .503	 .431	 .071
Chicago White Sox    Rate Field     	          1991	  5337	 .529	 .458	 .070
Miami	             Loan Depot Park	          2012     648	 .469	 .401	 .068
Cincinnati	     Great American Ball Park	  2003	  3465	 .505	 .438	 .067
San Diego	     Petco Park	                  2004	  3301	 .519	 .452	 .066
Arizona	             Chase Field	          1998	  4272	 .521	 .456	 .064
LA Angels	     Angel Stadium	          1966	  9381	 .526	 .463	 .063
Cleveland	     Progressive Field	          1994	  4848	 .564	 .502	 .061
Seattle	             T-Mobile Park	          1999	  3948	 .530	 .470	 .060
Baltimore	     Oriole Park at Camden Yards  1992	  5225	 .500	 .440	 .060
Washington	     Nationals Park	          2008	  2650	 .514	 .456	 .058
Minnesota	     Target Field	          2010	  2328	 .510	 .453	 .057
NY Mets	             Citi Field	                  2009	  2490	 .521	 .468	 .053
Atlanta	             Truist Park	          2017	  1193	 .577	 .556	 .021


No team in major league history has a bigger gap between their performance at home and their performance on the road than the Colorado Rockies. The Rockies have either a Home Game Advantage or a Road Game Disadvantage, and while no one can really be sure which it is, it does look to me like their real issues occur when they come down to sea level. 

But the Blue Jays have to play them in Coors Field, and guess what - it's been a problem. The Jays have made five trips there over the years, and they've gone 4-11. They've been swept on three of those five occasions. They've had their way with the Rockies when they get them at sea level - the Jays have gone 9-1 against the Rockies in Canada. But that's not where they're playing this week.

Matchups

Mon 4 Aug - Lauer (6-2, 2.68) vs Gordon (2-3, 4.85)
Tue 5 Aug - Berrios (7-4, 3.84) vs Freeland (2-11, 5.26)
Wed 6 Aug - Gausman (7-8, 3.99) vs S.Guy (?-?, ?.??)
Toronto at Colorado, August 4-6 | 345 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Glevin - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#465406) #
Giminez starts rehab tomorrow and Springer starts tomorrow or Wednesday. Expect both rehabs to be pretty short. Santander feeling 70% better and may start swinging bat next week but I'm not counting on anything from him. Manoah starting this week. Sandlin is throwing. No news on Yimi.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#465407) #
Yeah, I was thinking about playing in Colorado. The loss at home was last year, when the team was struggling.

In 2023, the Jays won 2 out 3.
They were all high scoring games.
The Jays won 13-9 and 7-5 and lost 8-7.

Kikuchi took the loss because of 4 unearned runs on the back of 2 errors both committed by Clement who was the shortstop.

In the 13-9 win, there were also 5 unearned runs due to errors by Clement who started at shortstop and Schneider who started at 3B.

The other game was started by Ryu who was able to go only 5 innings. Neither Gausman, nor Kikuchi got out of the 5th in their start.



greenfrog - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#465409) #
Boston is heating up. They're already crushing KC 5-0 in the second inning tonight.
Marc Hulet - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#465410) #
Royals look very human against the Red Sox. Not so much against Toronto...

Red Sox also look like much more of a complete team than the Yankees.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#465411) #
Some teams seems unprepared to the extent teams like New York and Boston are stealing signs. Wouldn't shock me if the benches clear.
pooks137 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#465413) #
Santander feeling 70% better and may start swinging bat next week but I'm not counting on anything from him.

Santander's injury status has been a cut-&-paste "Not yet swinging a bat yet" since the week he went on the IL.

That being said, I was pretty jaded with the first few months of all the non-updates on Scherzer's thumb. And he proved me wrong by coming back to pitch 7-8 more starts than I thought he would last for, even if the pitching line isn't necessarily there yet.

JB21 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#465414) #
"Santander feeling 70% better"

What does this even mean?
greenfrog - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#465415) #
I feel 70% better after the Varsho three-run home run.
Glevin - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#465416) #
Starting to buy Loperfido being something different. Last war, he would have struck out there most likely. So good to have Varsho back.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#465417) #
Loperfido has replaced Spencer Horwitz as the roommate of Clement and Schneider. He seems teachable. I just like the tools.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#465418) #
I'll show you 70% better.


But also, yay run differential.
Leaside Cowboy - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#465419) #
On Sundays, Leaside Cowboy likes to drink black coffee and watch U.S. politics on Meet the Press. Yesterday, just prior to that show, it was a pleasant surprise to see Arjun Nimmala profiled on NBC news.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#465420) #
Falter got shelled for 5 runs in the first, that was the difference. Of course, Boston starts Crochet Tomorrow...
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#465421) #
Best start by a Jays in Coors since when?
soupman - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#465422) #
Just looked at the 2026 Free Agent class. Might be the worst ever. Skubal is the only prize and the Tigers might lock him up before then.

It's shockingly bad on the position player front. Jazz Chisolm is going to be the highest paid guy that swings a bat.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#465423) #


Projected wRC+

1B Guerrero 145 --- 3B Bregman 121
SS Bichette 118 --- DH Anthony 110
DH Springer 116 --- 1B Yoshida 110
C Alejandro 116 --- LF Duran 109
RF Santander 111 --- RF Abreu 109
3B Barger 108 --- 2B Gonzalez 106
LF Lukes 104 --- CF Rafaela 97
CF Varsho 99 --- SS Story 91
2B Gimenez 97 --- C Narvaes 87

UT France 102 --- UT Campbell 100
OF Schneider 104 --- OF Refsnyder 113
IF Clement 84 --- IF Toro 93
C Heineman 91 --- C Wong 81

OF Loperfido 94 --- UT Mayer 84
IF Jimenez 94 --- IF Hamilton 74


ERA

Bieber 3.73 --- Crochet 2.96
Gausman 3.91 --- Bello 4.29
Scherzer 3.92 --- May 4.30
Bassitt 4.03 --- Harrison 4.36
Lauer 4.14 --- Giolito 4.62
Berrios 4.32 --- Buehler 4.77
Manoah 4.44 --- Fitts 4.79

Hoffman 3.21 --- Chapman 2.94
Little 3.36 --- Whitlock 3.29
Varland 3.38 --- Wilson 3.84
Yesavage 3.43 --- Bernardino 3.94
Dominguez 3.54 --- Slaten 3.94
Garcia 3.69 --- Sandlin 4.09
Fisher 3.99 --- Kelly 4.14
Rodriguez 4.00 --- Hicks 4.15
Pina 4.01 --- Weissert 4.20
Nance 4.02 --- Burdi 4.28
Sandlin 4.12 --- Alcala 4.36
Fluharty 4.13 --- Criswell 4.46
Bruihl 4.27 --- Murphy 4.49
92-93 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#465424) #
Alright boys save a few for tomorrow.

Bo is now up to .300/.341/.470 with a 125 wRC+. What an interesting FA case he will be, as an excellent hitter who became slow overnight and is just a serviceable SS.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#465425) #
should read 'IF Clement 94'.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#465426) #
If his babip keeps correcting towards his career average, there's a solid chance Bo puts up the best offensive season of his career this year.
Marc Hulet - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#465427) #
Even if the Jays were to resign Bichette, a big if, would he play SS? Would any team play him at SS? Maybe Detroit initially?

And if Toronto doesn't resign Bo or want him for SS so you use Clement as a stopgap? Gimemez? Leo Jimenez took a big step back this year.
Nigel - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#465428) #
Crazy amount of BABIP good fortune tonight.
92-93 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#465429) #
I was surprised to see Kirk hitting there, and even more surprised he was left out to run. It was reported that Heineman avoided a concussion and is available off the bench.
pooks137 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#465430) #
Best start by a Jays in Coors since when?

I had to brute force it, but it seems the answer is likely Aaron Sanchez on June 29th, 2016.

8 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 3K, 106 pitches, Game Score 67.

Roberto Osuna closed out the 9th in a non-save situation, giving up 2. Jays won 5-3.

92-93 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#465431) #
DRS likes Mookie's numbers at SS but I can still see the Dodgers getting involved.
Nigel - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#465432) #
Good to see Fisher getting some leverage work. And apparently Rodriguez is well enough to pitch tonight.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#465433) #
Bichette could probably play home in Coors and still put good numbers up on the road. He'd have to move to second, but that could be a great investment for the Rockies ownership.

Not likely to happen as this is the worst front office in baseball.
christaylor - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#465434) #
I just went through some YouTube highlights to see if I was not imagining things, but Bo's fitness seems to have taken a step back this year. That's probably not a bad thing, given he seemed like the ultra-competitive type to push himself too hard during the grind of the season.

While I'd love for him and Vladdy to remain a duo for a long time, I don't think he'll have a ton of takers in the offseason who see him as a shortstop. If he gets no offers to play short, does he resign with the Jays, who might be more open to having him play short for another season or two?

It is kind of nice to have a boring game on the winning side to entertain this kind of "later problem".
christaylor - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#465435) #
The Dodgers throw cash. It's a good strategy in baseball and one that might force owners to push hard for a cap.

I wonder if the Dodgers ever get into the concept of team building. The Yankees of the evil empire days (aside from keeping Jeter at SS) seemed to care more than the Dodgers on this score. Unlimited cash piles cover a ton of flaws in front offices.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#465436) #
The improved Yankees pen blew another save and got walked out in the 10th
92-93 - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#465437) #
Yankees just IBBd Langford to get to Jung, who promptly homered. Pederson homered in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. Nice.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#465438) #
I don't know that Bo looks bad defensively. The stats aren't great in this one season but aren't unplayable either. Last time he had a terrible defensive stats season he bounced back with a couple good ones.
Magpie - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#465439) #
Yankees fans are not amused:

Never in doubt.

We suck.

Boone couldn't manage a Burger King.

The usual.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#465440) #
Fried threw 105 pitches over 5 innings.
They used 5 relievers.
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#465441) #
Most shortstops are gold glove candidates at some point. Bo is only going to slow down. Why sugar coat it?
greenfrog - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#465442) #
Jake Bird has had a rough go of it for the Yankees. 3 appearances, 2 IP, 6 ER and 2 HR allowed (including today’s walkoff blast in extras).
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#465443) #
5 hit game for the Erndog
scottt - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:33 PM EDT (#465444) #
I don't think he's a high leverage guy.
greenfrog - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#465445) #
Clement is 5/6 with a double and triple today. wRC+ back up to 100.

When you’re the first-place manager, you’re always right.
uglyone - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#465446) #
https://x.com/Jomboy_/status/1952570411331260602?s=19
hypobole - Monday, August 04 2025 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#465447) #
On the plus side for the Yankees they kept all their top prospects. :)
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#465448) #
Tomorrow it's Warren against Eovaldi who is having quite a year.
John Northey - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:40 AM EDT (#465449) #
Well, score one for Atkins - this team seems to have all the offense it needs, while the Yankees rebuilt their pen and keep blowing leads ever since. I guess they must miss Yarborough who is injured and hasn't pitched since June 18th. What blows my mind is they traded for Bednar yet still use Williams as their closer. That'd be like the Jays deciding that Green was their closer last year so we'll keep using him in that role even though we signed Hoffman.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:59 AM EDT (#465450) #
Maybe it's because they changed their facial hair policy for Williams.

They miss judge. And Loasiga. And new outfielder Slater pulled a hammy.

Worth noting that Yariel didn't pitch?
adrianveidt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:13 AM EDT (#465451) #
Playing the Rockies is the cure for a losing streak.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:45 AM EDT (#465452) #
Playing the Rockies is the cure for a losing streak

Both the Blue Jays and the Rockies are 4-6 in their last 10 games. Toronto can certainly sweep Colorado in this series, but I wouldn't take anything for granted.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:30 AM EDT (#465453) #
The Rockies took 2 against the Pirates, the Twins and the Cards. They usually give up at least 5 runs, even when they win. Today's starter Molina, has an ERA of 6.59 in the PCL.
They also just traded from their bullpen.

Hitters could be looking at padding their stats and pitchers know where they are. It's all about playing good defense.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:50 AM EDT (#465454) #
And suddenly, neither Schneider nor Lukes have any platoon split of note.

Schneider 110wrc+ vRHP / 129wrc+ vLHP
Lukes 111wrc+ vRHP / 128wrc+ vLHP
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#465455) #
Team wRC+

1. NYY 117
2. CHC 114
3. LAD 113
4. TOR 111
5. ARI 110
6. SEA 120
7. NYM 107
8. DET 106
9. PHI 106
10. MIL 105

And finally starting to close ground in runs scored per game:

1. CHC 5.19
2. NYY 5.17
3. LAD 5.12
4. BOS 4.98
5. MIL 4.98
6. ARI 4.85
7. DET 4.82
8. TOR 4.79
9. PHI 4.72
10. CIN 4.56
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#465456) #
Since May 1

wRC+

1. TOR 120
2. NYY 111
3. CHC 111
4. ARI 110
5. LAD 109

Runs/gm

1. TOR 5.26
2. LAD 5.01
3. NYY 4.96
4. BOS 4.93
5. MIL 4.93
dalimon5 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#465457) #
I think Barger and Francis had the biggest impact on this team around May. One was removed and the other added and it dramatically changed the roster and rotation. It allowed injured Santander to go to IL and Lauer to come up.

The other biggest change has been Springer's resurgence and Schneider's better managing since they started winning.

I think Santander, Vlad and Bieber can have the biggest impact rest of the way. If Santander can come back and hit HR while Glad adds power and clutch then the icing on the cake would be Bieber at top of rotation.

Jays kept Tiedemann, Nimmala and Yesavage and have Manoah for next year so basically they need to resign Bo and Varsho and they're in good shape.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#465458) #
People are often fixated in resigning aging players. Bref has Bichette at 2.7 WAR. Trevor Stort has 2.6. Volpe, 1.9. Taylor Walls, 2.8. Gunnar Henderson, 3.7.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#465459) #
Joey Loperfido is truly the favourite of the goddess BABIP. Up to .490 now. Of the other 440 players with 70 PA's, only 1 other is over .409. That's a massive amount of luck.

On the other hand, he's always had good BABIPs. 8 previous stops with 100+ PA's, never had a BABIP under .300, with marks of .443, .379, ..371, .350, .344.

This year he also is the leader in LD% at 33.3, only 1 other of the 440 is over 30%. And he still doesn't have an IFFB. May have something to do with his bat path, because otherwise I can't figure out how a player with an above average K% makes such good contact when he does make contact.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#465460) #
they need to resign Bo and Varsho and they're in good shape.

Varsho isn't a FA until after next year.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#465462) #
The Athletic posted their latest Power Rankings today. The 66-48 Blue Jays are 6th on the list. There are four teams with worse or equivalent W-L records ahead of them: LAD (#2, 65-48), CHC (#3, 65-47), PHI (#4, 64-48), DET (#5, 66-48).

I also noticed that in ESPN's long list of "trade grades" for every deal consummated before the July 31 deadline, they couldn't be bothered to list Toronto's Dominguez-JWB trade.

US media still doesn't quite fully respect the Blue Jays. Or maybe they don't want to get criticized by their government for mentioning Canada in a favourable light.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#465463) #
Elbows up!

The Dodgers, Phillies, and Tigers are each bigger favourites to win the World Series (and so are the Yankees).
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#465464) #
Gimenez getting injured also had an impact on team offence improving.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#465465) #
It was a career day for Bichette with 6 RBI. He was the DH.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#465466) #
In Colorado, they might stick with 3 CF in the outfield.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#465467) #
I also noticed that in ESPN's long list of "trade grades"

ESPN did give the trade for Bieber a B+, partly because of the team option for next year. Which doesn't exist because it's a player option.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#465468) #
This year's splits only:

wRC+ vRHP / vLHP

CF Varsho 139 / Straw 95 (platoon)
RF Loperfido 179 / Loperfido 160
LF Lukes 111 / Lukes 128
3B Barger 134 / Clement 157 (platoon)
SS Bichette 122 / Bichette 132
2B Schneider 110 / Schneider 129
1B Guerrero 132 / Guerrero 162
DH Springer 159 / Springer 117
C Alejandro 118 / Alejandro 110

UT Clement 71 / Barger 72
OF Straw 65 / Varsho -42
IF Gimenez 100 / Gimenez 22
C Heineman 121 / Heineman 215

X France 91 / France 89
X Santander 68 / Santander 46


So this year's stats call for only 2 platoons - 1 in CF, 1 at 3B.

They suggest that all of Lukes Loperfido and Schneider might be fulltime players at LF RF and 2B.


but of course, one partial year splits are tiny samples. I definitely wouldn't platoon Varsho.

at the same time, i wouldn't mind seeing the other three get shots at fulltime duty.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#465469) #
Loperfido had a 30% LD rate and a 10% IFFB rate in 315 triple A PAs. I think there's been an improvement, but not as much as would be suggested by his MLB performance in 2025. He rocked a .350 BABIP in triple A and that's a reasonable target for him in MLB. ZiPS projects him at a .331 BABIP and a 103 wRC+ going forward, and it is the most optimistic of all the projection systems.

In praise of John Schneider's development. Using Lukes/Schneider as a platoon leadoff hitter was an inspired use of existing resources. With Clement often batting at the bottom of the order and getting on base plenty and scooting and Heineman hitting in very good luck, Lukes has the best RBI/PA rate on the club. Yes, there's a bit of randomness in there, but the overall approach of utilizing varied talents has been unconventional but effective.

greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#465470) #
UO, assuming Santander is unavailable, what would be your starting postseason lineups against LHP (such as Crochet, Fried, Skubal) and RHP (such as Brown, Castillo, Kirby)? Who would your leadoff hitter be against those tough pitchers?
mathesond - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#465471) #
"People are often fixated in resigning aging players."

Are there any players that aren't aging?
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#465472) #
ha!

i keep posting the different stats precisely because i'm trying to figure this exact puzzle out.

i really don't know at the moment.

I think i'd probably lean towards batting Springer-Vladdy-Bo as 1-2-3 against both LHP and RHP. That's about as far as I can get at the moment.

But of course even then it seems like coach is set on those 3 hitting 2-3-4, so i'm probably wrong from the get go.


but while one one hand it seems like a tough puzzle to crack, on the other hand it's almost starting to seem like an abundance of options to choose from where the manager maybe can't really go wrong.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#465473) #
Unfortunately I just don't think they trust Schneider enough defensively to play him more regularly.

No team is ever at full strength so these exercises are typically moot, but I would expect Schneider and Straw to take Lukes and Loperfido's spots vs. lefties, and Clement to take Barger's unless he starts hitting lefties. He handled them just fine in the minors. Varsho and Gimenez would get their days off too vs. lefties, but only when necessary because the team clearly puts a high priority on defense.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#465474) #
Pitching, using the average of fip war and ra9 war, paced out to full seasons (32gms for SP, 65 for RP):


1. LH Lauer 3.6
2. RH Gausman 2.8
3. RH Bassitt 2.2
4. RH Berrios 2.2
5. RH Scherzer 1.6

1. RH Fisher 1.7
2. RH Varland 1.5
3. LH Little 1.2
4. RH Rodriguez 0.9
5. RH Dominguez 0.3
6. RH Garcia 0.3
7. RH Hoffman 0.1
8. LH Fluharty -0.3

(9. RH Nance 1.5)
(10. RH Sandlin 0.2)
(11. RH Schultz -0.1)
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#465475) #
looks like the Yanks just sent down Jake Bird.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#465476) #
The manager seems to ride the hot hand a fair bit, so if Lukes and Davis are hitting well at the end of the regular season, I could see them getting some leadoff PA against RHP and LHP respectively in the postseason. I guess it also depends on whether the manager thinks those hitters can handle the high-90s high FBs that some of those pitchers can bring.
pooks137 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#465477) #
Lukes has the best RBI/PA rate on the club. Yes, there's a bit of randomness in there, but the overall approach of utilizing varied talents has been unconventional but effective.

Lukes being the most efficient player for driving in runs is interesting in the context that the broadcast last night had him as the least clutch hitter on the team behind Vlad in a chart demonstrating Jr.'s relative 2025 struggles of late.

greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#465478) #
On June 14, when Bo had a 726 OPS, I wrote: "I’m still hoping Bo has a streak this summer or fall where he goes unconscious the way he did a couple of summers ago — have a month or more where you pretty much can’t get him out."

He now has an 809 OPS. Over his last 15 games he's hit .403/.437/.627 (1064 OPS).
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#465479) #
Platooning Varsho LH/RH makes some sense but I'd rather him hitting against most LH's than against a pitcher who can pitch up with velocity regardless of handedness.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#465480) #
If everyone except Santander is back, and Schneider is actually willing to use Clement less often (will have to see that to believe it), then the only drawback is that it would be a lot of LHB in the lineup. Maybe 1 too many. However it seems like Schneider is more open to platoon roles this season, so that can be fixed with pinch hitting later in games. My guess is it will be something like this:

vs RHP
RF Lukes
DH Springer
1B Guerrero Jr.
SS Bichette
3B Barger
CA Kirk
CF Varsho
LF Loperfido
2B Gimenez

Then against LHP you sub 3 LHB's out for Clement, Schneider, and Straw. Would have been nice to have a better offensive player against LHB instead of Straw, but to his credit he hasn't been awful against them this season (95 wRC+) like he has in the past. I'm guessing Clement will still get a lot of starts against RHP, so it will depend a lot on the matchups.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#465481) #
Fangraphs Preseason Combined Projections ---> Current Performance ---> difference



wRC+

Guerrero 152 ---> 139 ---> -13
Santander 126 --> 63 ---> -63
Bichette 120 ----> 124 ---> +4
Alejandro 118 --> 115 ---> -3
Wagner 118 ----> 86 ---> -32
Roden 112 -----> 57 ---> -55
Springer 109 ---> 148 ---> +39
Gimenez 107 ---> 78 ---> -29
Varsho 104 -----> 102 ---> -2

Schneider 108 -> 122 ---> +14
Lukes 108 ------> 113 ---> +5
Clement 100 ---> 99 ---> -1
Heineman 77 --> 151 ---> +84

Barger 107 -----> 122 ---> +15
Loperfido 92 ---> 174 ---> +82
Straw 74 --------> 78 ----> +4
Jimenez 103 ----> -20 ---> -123
Bethancourt 85 -> --- ----> n/a



ERA

Scherzer 3.71 ---> 4.39 ---> -0.68
Gausman 3.80 ---> 3.99 ---> -0.19
Bassitt 4.04 ------> 4.12 ---> -0.08
Berrios 4.15 -----> 3.84 ---> +0.31
Francis 4.20 -----> 6.05 ---> -1.85
Lauer n/a --------> 2.59 ---> n/a

Hoffman 2.97 ----> 4.56 ---> -1.59
Burr 3.54 ---------> 0.00 ---> +3.54
Garcia 3.58 -------> 3.86 ---> -0.28
Little 3.79 --------> 2.70 ---> +1.09
Green 3.90 ------> 5.56 ----> -1.66
Sandlin 3.97 -----> 2.20 ---> +1.77
Swanson 3.98 ----> 15.19 --> -11.21
Rodriguez 4.06 ---> 2.53 ---> +1.53
Fluharty 4.07 ----> 5.36 ----> -1.29
Fisher 4.41 ------> 2.43 ----> +1.98

dalimon5 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#465482) #
"On June 14, when Bo had a 726 OPS, I wrote: "I’m still hoping Bo has a streak this summer or fall where he goes unconscious the way he did a couple of summers ago — have a month or more where you pretty much can’t get him out."

He now has an 809 OPS. Over his last 15 games he's hit .403/.437/.627 (1064 OPS)."

Give yourself a pat on the back. I was promoting Joey Loperfido as a toolsy AAAA player that I liked better than most of the other AAAA guys. No point in highlighting comments I made from months past that turn out to be true if I don't do the same for the comments that went the other way.

If you write how Bo is doing really well then I understand your point to be that Bo is doing really well, but starting off by pointing out that you wrote previously that you hoped Bo would do this implies that you had a hope or guess at something and it turned out to bear fruit. It takes away from the real point of Bo doing well and puts more emphasis on your hope/prediction that that had happened. If it was me I'd just stick to pointing out the result without the added notation of what I wrote since I'm just a poster on this site with personal opinion. Just my 2 cents. Am I the only one that finds it strange when posters want to call attention to comments they made from months ago to highlight their opinion???
John Northey - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#465483) #
Yankees in full panic mode. Demoting the guy you just traded for after 3 games (1/3 IP 4 R/ER, 1 IP 3 up/3 down, 2/3 IP 3 R 2 ER) seems silly. Yeah, he did poorly in 2 of those but why trade for him if you are going to give up after 3 games? Meanwhile their 'closer' has 17 saves, 3 blown, 7 holds, and an 80 ERA+ (yikes). And the ace closer they traded for is being used oddly (Bednar - 2 g, a blown save when they tried to use him for 2 innings and a hold).

The Yankees seem very poorly run right now. Those who say 'fire Boone' seem to have the right idea in my mind - not a fan of firing managers, but he seems poorly suited with his high temper and poor choices in the pen. I get the feeling his GM (Cashman, future HOF) might also be nearing the end of his very, very long tenure (1998-now - his contract ends after 2026).
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#465484) #
I pointed out my clairvoyant deadline starting pitcher prediction. I also called myself a jerk for doing so.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#465485) #
Leiter jr is coming off the IL. Someone had to go down, so they sent Bird down to hopefully get himself right. He also has 3 more years of control, so the trade wasn't about this year only, not that it makes it a good trade.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#465486) #
Why is 5 LHB in the lineup vs a RHP a downside when your entire bench are RHBs?
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#465487) #
Am I the only one that finds it strange when posters want to call attention to comments they made from months ago to highlight their opinion???
br> I know what you mean! The other day there was this poster boasting about how before the season he predicted Toronto and Tampa would finish first and second in the AL East. You must have found that similarly annoying, dalimon!
Magpie - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#465488) #
Am I the only one that finds it strange when posters want to call attention to comments they made from months ago to highlight their opinion???

Please. I happily call attention to comments I made fifteen years ago, in the endless quest to prove that I'm not always an idiot.
ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#465489) #
For my part, I definitely won't be calling to attention my preseason prediction that the Jays would finish last in the division and Baltimore would finish first. Maybe my crystal ball was just upside down.
John Northey - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#465490) #
For fun I looked at the Jays stats and noticed we might be looking at an '85 - no one with 30 HR (18 leads), 100 RBI (74 lead so Bo should make it), 300 average (Kirk at 302, Bo 299), 20 wins (11 leads), but we should see 30 saves (Hoffman at 26). I remember the media making a big deal of it in '85 as it showed a team of no stars, just a solid all-around effort. This year seems a lot like that - Vlad leads in WAR at 3.5 then 5 guys in the 2's. In '85 Barfield and Stieb both cracked 6 WAR (Barfield's WOW defense, 141 OPS+, 22-8 SB-CS led to it, Stieb led in ERA but was 14-13 thus ignored by Cy voters who only cared about wins back then).

I think Bo will crack 100 RBI and hit 300, and 20 wins is long gone as a standard. Still interesting to see how the Jays don't have a lot of guys having 'wow' years among regulars.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#465491) #
That means the guy they acquired is either their worst reliever or they acquired him to fill in for 3 games.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#465492) #
I predicted Toronto, Boston, Yankees, Baltimore, Tampa.

I don't think the Orioles will catch up to the Rays, but I can live with that.
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#465493) #
There have been no real "wow" years but the bottom end of the roster (Heineman, Lauer, Lukes, Schneider) has had some unexpectedly great performances and some unexpected performance from younger players (Barger, Fisher, Loperfido, Wagner) and all of that has more than offset a lack of star performance and a bunch of offseason moves that haven't worked out (at least to date).
bpoz - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#465494) #
I predicted 85-89 wins for the Jays. They could get 89 which will be disappointing and also nail biting.

My current prediction is 94 wins. IMO this is a very unique year in that I can predict a 2nd time because the season is a very good one.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#465495) #
Took a look at the Clutch stat for our pitchers this year. Guess who are 1st and 2nd.

Hint: on a scale of 1 (makes sense) to 10 (what???), it's a Spinal Tap 11.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#465496) #
I predicted 89 wins with good team defense as well as meaningful contributions from Davis Schneider (yay) and Alan Roden (oops).
Magpie - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#465497) #
I predicted pain.

Not my first rodeo.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#465498) #
Your Correct Prediction cheques are all in the mail. promise!
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#465499) #
I just like to troll the thought police!
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#465500) #
Controlled next year


SP Gausman (35) $23.0
SP Berrios (32) $18.7
SP Manoah (28) Arb
SP Francis (30) Arb
SP Bloss (25) rook
SP Tiedeman (22) rook
SP Yesavage (22) rook

RP Hoffman (33) $12.7
RP Garcia (35) $7.5
RP Rodriguez (29) $6.6
RP Fisher (25) rook
RP Varland (28) rook
RP Little (29) rook
RP Fluharty (24) rook
RP Sandlin (29) Arb
RP Burr (32) Arb
RP Nance (35) Arb


1B Guerrero (27) $40.2
DH Springer (36) $24.2
RF Santander (31) $19.2
2B Gimenez (27) $15.6
C Alejandro (27) $8.7
CF Varsho (29) Arb
SS Clement (30) Arb
3B Barger (26) rook
LF Lukes (31) rook

UT Loperfido (27) rook
OF Straw (32) $7.4
IF Schneider (27) rook
C Heineman (35) Arb

UT Schreck (25) rook
OF Clase (24) rook
IF Jimenez (25) rook
C Sanchez (29) rook



FA

SS Bichette (28)
SP Scherzer (41)
SP Bassitt (37)
RP Dominguez (31)
UT France (31)
Glevin - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#465501) #
Jays obviously hit a lot of balls hard yesterday but also not sure if I've ever seen so many weak groundball hits before. Everything seemed to go through the infield. Rockies also have a bad defense which maybe explains some of it but definitely had everything going right last night.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#465502) #
Greenfrog my self patting post the other day was tongue firmly in cheek. It's all good.
mendocino - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#465503) #
Lauer has an arb year left
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#465504) #
Yep. Lauer obviously in. Ugly and Dumb One here.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#465505) #
Heineman all good. Sanchez DFA. Kennedy up.
Glevin - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#465506) #
Assume Kennedy up because they want someone they can DFA on a few days when Gimenez/Springer are back. Stefanic is obviously much better but also not on 40 man so you risk losing him when you have to activate Gimenez.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#465507) #
Kennedy has a semi interesting track record tbh.
pooks137 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#465508) #
The Kennedy thing is odd other than as roster fodder.

But it was telegraphed yesterday that Kennedy was traveling with the team to Colorado.

I can't imagine the Jays are terribly worried at this point about losing Michael Stefanic.
Glevin - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#465509) #
Stefanic is a very good minor leaguer and ZiPS projects him as a league average hitter in the majors. If an infielder got hurt, you'd want him up. Yeah, the Jays don't want to lose him for what is likely a 2 day call-up.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#465510) #
The Blue Jays lead the major leagues in batting average by 10 points and in on-base percentage by 7 points. Their IsoP is middle of the pack. You can win with that.
pooks137 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#465511) #
Stefanic is behind Gimenez, Clement, Schneider & Leo Jimenez on the 2B depth chart.

He also stunk when given an extended run earlier in the spring.

I liked Stefanic as a offseason pickup based on his statline, but it's already August and he's buried.

The team is being too smart by half if it's too cautious to be giving the likes of Stefanic a few more days of service timeat this point.
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#465512) #
There is no one right way to treat extreme split information over a small sample. My preference generally is to use a larger sample, if possible. So, in the case of Clement, his two-year splits are 88 wRC+ vs RHP and 114 wRC+ v. LHP. These are significant splits but not very unusual in sample sizes of 400-500 for each platoon split. Clement is a useful player with either number because of his defensive position and skill.
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#465514) #
Mike you aren't allowed to hold that view. Clement's career wRC+ vs RH is 82. Varsho's career wRC+ vs LH is 83. One's a quad A platoon bat the other is a critical full time regular:)
Mike Green - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#465515) #
For what it's worth, Clement started getting more regular work in August, 2023. Here's the listing of Blue Jay position players by FAR since then:
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2025&month=1000&season1=2025&ind=0&team=14&rost=1&age=&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-08-01&enddate=2025-08-04

Varsho is a smidgen better both offensively and defensively than Clement, but Clement has had more PAs because he has been healthier. Overall, they have been extremely close in value.
JB21 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#465516) #
I assume Buddy Kennedy was called up specifically for this tweet

https://x.com/BlueJays/status/1952842593294790794
Glevin - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#465517) #
Mike you aren't allowed to hold that view. Clement's career wRC+ vs RH is 82. Varsho's career wRC+ vs LH is 83. One's a quad A platoon bat the other is a critical full time regular:)"

Nobody thinks Clement is a AAAA player but being good against RHP is a much more valuable skill than being good against LHP. Clement should be playing against all lefties and sometimes against righties. I agree with Mike that small sample sizes aren't very useful for splits but there is no length of period where Clement's numbers justify everyday abs against RHP.
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#465518) #
I have no problem with the idea that Varsho is probably the better/more valuable player, if for no other reason than he's the "volume side" of the platoon but its all pretty marginal. In my view, Varsho, Gimenez and Clement are all pretty much the same player. They all offer slightly less than average bats, elite defence and varying amounts of useful baserunning. Its just that Clement is giving the team more value given his salary. In an optimal scenario I think that they should all be strategically, but not universally, platooned.
hypobole - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#465519) #
Seems no one cares about Clutch. And probably for good reason. Far and away the most clutch pitcher for the Jays this year has been Chad Green. 2nd place is close, but edging out Chris Bassitt by a whisker, it's Justin Bruihl.
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#465520) #
Glevin - I have no problem with that view at all (although I think the need to platoon him against RH's is overstated) its just weird that every single thread has to make that point and I don't remember there ever being a similar point being made when Varsho or Gimenez (when healthy) starts against a LH. Anyway, it is what it is:)
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#465521) #
As a jay, Varsho is better vLHP (102) than vRHP (89).
Glevin - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#465522) #
Glevin - I have no problem with that view at all (although I think the need to platoon him against RH's is overstated) its just weird that every single thread has to make that point and I don't remember there ever being a similar point being made when Varsho or Gimenez (when healthy) starts against a LH. Anyway, it is what it is:)"

The reason is that Clement has so many PAs against RHP. He has 283. That's fourth most on the team (4th in PAs, 14th in WRC+) for someone who has not hit RHP at all. Varsho and Gimenez have combined for 89 PAs against LHP. If Gimenez and Varsho had 280 PAs against LHP and couldn't hit them, I'd be complaining a lot about them too.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#465524) #
1-0 Red Sox over KC might be enough to win with Crochet pitching (3 perfect innings so far, 38 pitches).
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#465525) #
KC tied in the next half inning.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#465526) #
In Texas, Judge is back but as DH with Stanton on the bench.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#465527) #
As uglyone has pointed out, Varsho has been BETTER against lefties as a Jay than against righties, so the comparison is an odd one.

Even if that wasn't the case, though, the real difference is that the Jays don't have a viable replacement for Varsho that one can reasonably think would be better in CF for the team when they face lefties. That isn't true for Clement when the team is at full strength and facing a RHP. When it is true (the last few weeks), everybody welcomes Clement's presence in the lineup, even when he's posting a .560 OPS over 5-6 weeks.

Also, power matters a lot. Varsho's swing yesterday completely changed the game. He has driven in 9 fewer runs than Clement despite having 309 fewer plate appearances.

And didn't we decide the new whipping boy is France? He is keeping Schneider out of the lineup tonight. Give the manager a new toy and he will use it. I fully expect him to hit a HR and to make the coming roster decision about who to drop for Springer very difficult.
Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#465528) #
You can’t convince me that Will Wagner wouldn’t be better against a righty tonight than Ty France. I still don’t understand why they chose France over Wagner.
pooks137 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#465529) #
Seems no one cares about Clutch. And probably for good reason. Far and away the most clutch pitcher for the Jays this year has been Chad Green.

Definitely something screwy with Fangraphs Clutch stat.

Not only did Green lead the Jays in clutch with an extreme outlier at 1.95, he has 3x the Clutch rating as the 2nd place pitcher Bruihl.

FG defines their Clutch rating as not simply performing in high leverage situations, but performing better than the player's average performance in high leverage.

FG also lists Clutch rating in their Game Logs. But when I try to add up Green's the total isn't anywhere close to 1.95, so it does not appear to be a simple cumulative stat.

But it gets weirder. Green's "most clutch" outing at 0.20 is a game against St. Louis where he came in the 8th mid-inning to relieve Mason Fluharty up 8-4. And immediately gave up a two-run HR to Nolan Arenado (with one run credited to Fluharty. He'd come back out for the 9th with the Jays adding two more to be up 10-6. He give up 2 singles, then is penalized two more runs when Jeff Hoffman gave up a 3 run homer.

His least clutch performance at -0.19 during his past Baltimore, meltdown where he gave up 4 ERs & 2 dingers.

So the weighing of WPA vs leverage index is doing some funky stuff if his most Clutch was giving up 1-4 runs in a 8-4 game against STL.

scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#465530) #
What about Kennedy?
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#465531) #
one thing about France is that he's got zero platoon splits whatsoever.

Career 110 vR / 111 vL
2025 91 vR / 89 vL
2024 92 vR / 98 vL
2023 106 vR / 106 vL
2022 130 vR / 119 vL

Marc Hulet - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#465532) #
What an ugly swing by Vladdy...
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#465533) #
Lukes' battling ways make it tough to take him out of the leadoff slot.
Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#465534) #
Lukes was always a player ugly said had some potential and he looks like just a solid regular right now.
Gerry - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#465535) #
Leo Jimenez couldn't hit a lick in Toronto. He is back with Buffalo tonight and has a single, double and two walks. They can't get him out! Baseball is a funny game.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#465536) #
man varsho roped that one.

the best part of his insane power this year is that it actually looks earned.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#465537) #
Good defense so far.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#465538) #
7 pitch single for Loperfido.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#465539) #
Varsho with a .562 slugging percentage this year, thanks in large part to 10 HR in 114 PA.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#465540) #
Molina looks shellshocked.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#465541) #
Daulton Gunsho
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#465542) #
MLB ISO Leaders, min 50pa

1. Varsho 115pa, .377iso
2. Judge 462pa, .366iso
3. Kurtz 307pa, .345iso
4. Raleigh 487pa, .344iso
5. Schwarber 502pa, .333iso
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#465543) #
Ouch.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#465544) #
My post was current for about five minutes. Update: Varsho has a .594 slugging percentage and 11 home runs in 115 PA.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#465545) #
Did someone get injured? Loperfido?
Gerry - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#465546) #
Loperfido took a 98 mph fastball off the side of the knee. He was removed from the game.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#465547) #
Took a 98mph fastball to the knee.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#465548) #
Probably went straight to x-rays.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#465549) #
Thanks. Hope Loperfido is all right.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#465550) #
really rough night for Addison in the field.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#465551) #
Devin Williams comes in in the 8th inning of a scoreless game and promptly gives up 2 runs, and still has 2 on with only 1 out. ERA up to 5.48 now.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#465552) #
In Texas, Williams was back for the 8th walked 2 and gave up 2 runs.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#465553) #
Yariel Rodriguez finally get to pitch but in a Uber high leverage spot? Yikes!
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#465554) #
I wonder if 25-year-old RJ Schreck might get promoted to the majors if Loperfido ends up on the IL. Different skillset, but he has a 914 OPS in AA and a 918 OPS in AAA this year.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#465555) #
Bo knows defense.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#465556) #
Players are falling left and right.
Magpie - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#465557) #
Devin Williams comes in in the 8th inning of a scoreless game

He used to be good. Wonder what happened.

Rowdy Tellez fouled off four two strike pitches before getting the big RBI single off his old teammate.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#465558) #
Stanton with the pinch hit double play, hitting for the hated Volpe.

that'll make yanks fans happy I'm sure.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#465559) #
Cubs and Tigers both lose.

Jays move back into sole possession of 2nd overall if they can hold on here.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#465560) #
2 hits, 0 walks, 7 Ks for the Yanks.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#465561) #
helluva play by Lukes there. tbh i've been a bit disappointed in his defense this year but that was nice.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#465562) #
YRod needs to be handing out bills to his D tonight.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#465563) #
Red Sox are red hot again. Winners of 7 in a row. Wild season for them, and in general.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#465564) #

Jomboy

@Jomboy_
·
19m
Hey but on a serious note, what just happened is insane. It’s insane. How can that happen? How can you not take him out? How can you put him in? My first official CANT HAPPEN of the day.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#465565) #
They will join us on the West Coast this weekend.
Eephus - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#465566) #
I can see why the Blue Jays found Varland’s stuff (that knucklecurve hoo baby) so appealing.
uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#465567) #
yeah Eephus he's nasty.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#465568) #
It's harder to see how the Twins front office could trade a St-Paul native with 5 years of control. His wife and family was at every home game.
Magpie - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#465569) #
It's harder to see how the Twins front office could trade a St-Paul native

The Blue Jays have a pretty nice history with guys from St. Paul.
scottt - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#465570) #
Yankees have fallen behind 6 and a half and are hanging to the last wild card.
Nigel - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#465571) #
The team defense was great tonight. There’s also been some BABIP luck in this series. All of Berrios, Rodriguez and Varland gave up missiles that went right at a defender.

With the Jays’ team defense and offensive approach, Coors Field is a great place for the Jays to play.
greenfrog - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#465572) #
Good news: Schneider said xrays on Loperfido’s leg were negative. Contusion. Expects Loperfido’s knee is going to be pretty sore tomorrow.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:55 PM EDT (#465573) #
Varsho had more ribbies tonight than Clement had in either April or June. Production matters, even if it doesn’t show up in WAR.
pooks137 - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#465574) #
The team defense was great tonight.

Barger has booted a few balls at 3rd on consecutive nights.

Maybe it's related to lack of reps from bouncing between 3B & RF most games.

uglyone - Tuesday, August 05 2025 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#465575) #
Jays could field an entire lineup where the worst wRC+ would be 117.

CF Varsho 124
RF Lukes 118
LF Loperfido 177
3B Barger 122
SS Bichette 124
2B Schneider 122
1B Guerrero 142
DH Springer 148
C Alejandro 117
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#465576) #
A comparison between two Blue Jays single-season RP performances on first-place teams (decades apart):

Pitcher 1: RHP, 6'4", 210 lbs, 9.15 K/9, 3.46 BB/9, 0.44 HR/9, .267 BABIP, 81.7 LOB%, 1.95 ERA, 2.58 FIP

Pitcher 2: RHP, 6'1", 205 lbs, 8.47 K/9, 2.29 BB/9, 0.53 HR/9, .288 BABIP, 79.9 LOB%, 2.12 ERA, 2.87 FIP

scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#465577) #
I am pretty sure it shows in WAR.
lexomatic - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#465578) #
K/9 seems low for Ward in.... 91/92 for Pitcher 1, but only thing I can thing of with the 1.95 ERA. 
lexomatic - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#465579) #
So I checked,and I was right about Ward... in 1992. The other pitcher is who I thought it was, but the numbers have changed slightly. Should be close enough to tell, though. 100 IP for Ward in 1992, though, is pretty incredible. 
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#465580) #
Yes! Ward 1992.

Pitcher 2 stats just updated: 8.65 K/9, 2.42 BB/9, 0.52 HR/9, .286 BABIP, 79.9 LOB%, 2.08 ERA, 2.86 FIP
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#465581) #
Record vs >.500 Teams

1. TOR 63gms, 38-25, .603
2. MIL 59gms, 35-24, .593
3. SEA 65gms, 36-29, .554
4. NYM 55gms, 30-25, .546
5. HOU 59gms, 31-28, .525
6. CHC 69gms, 35-34, .507
7. BOS 62gms, 31-31, .500
7. SFG 62gms, 31-31, .500
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:48 AM EDT (#465582) #
K/9 seems low for Ward in.... 91/92 for Pitcher 1

It's not at all low by 1992 standards, when the AL average was 5.4 K per 9 (these days it's about 8.5).
mathesond - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 01:07 AM EDT (#465583) #
Yeah, i remember realizing that Ward had a lot of strikeouts relative to his peers because he pitched more innings than most relievers.
Joe - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 07:40 AM EDT (#465584) #
Well, given Pitcher 2's stats updated, I cheated and checked the stats of the people who pitched last night. I remain really impressed with Atkins' trade record.
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#465586) #
Vladdy’s xWOBA this year (.411) is the second-best of his career. His best was in 2021 (.421). He’s having a very good season.
Mike Green - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#465587) #
Random fact of the day. Bo Bichette's K rate is 5% better than his career average, and 4% better than his best previous year. And he's still hitting the ball very hard. So much good news all the way around this year.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#465588) #
Record vs >.500 Teams, updated after late results:

1. TOR 63gms, 38-25, .603
2. MIL 52gms, 31-21, .596
3. SEA 65gms, 36-29, .554
4. HOU 59gms, 31-28, .525
5. NYM 48gms, 25-23, .521
6. PHI 55gms, 28-27, .509
7. CHC 62gms, 31-31, .500
7. BOS 62gms, 31-31, .500
7. SFG 62gms, 31-31, .500
92-93 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#465590) #
On June 28th on these very pages, I wrote:

"My impression on Bichette is that he's almost been too good, frequently lining balls hard up the middle right at the CF. In 2022 it felt like he was always sitting offspeed and reacting to the fastball, constantly dumping hits down the RF line. We've seen a lot less of that this year. I do still wish he would make some better swing decisions, but I'm not worried about his bat at all. He looks comfortable."

Bo is hitting .375/.416/.578 in 137PA since then with 14 2B, 4 HR, and 8:16 BB:K.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#465591) #
Bo thru May:

vRHP 213pa 126wrc+
vLHP 50pa 46wrc+

Since June

vRHP 181pa 116wrc+
vLHP 64pa 200wrc+


Season

vRHP 394pa 122wrc+
vLHP 114pa 132wrc+

Career

vRHP 2514pa 117wrc+
vLHP 658pa 131wrc+



Looks like the weird slump he had vLHP last year and to start this year finally corrected itself.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#465592) #
Vlad is great but not clutch.
Solo homers. Hits with bases empty.
lexomatic - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#465593) #
The 9K/9 was low for Ward. Other seasons aroubd that one he was 11 & 12 even. Did it pitching 100 innings, which must be why his arm fell off after 93.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#465594) #
Today would be a good day to give Barger a breather. He looks physically and mentally exhausted... and he's constantly in swing mode.

He's been shaky at 3B but came up as an infielder (originally SS but moved around) and then moved to the outfield part-time when Bichette and Chapman were occupying the left side. He lacks the range for SS and the quickness for 3B. His best infielder position in the minors was 2B but didn't make good use of his arm.

They should keep him in RF as much as possible and let him get fully comfortable there.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#465595) #
"Vlad is great but not clutch."

Vlad is more clutch than you think. He's 98th of 155 qualified. A bit behind Corbin Carroll and slightly better than Bobby Witt jr, Mike Trout, Jose Ramirez.

Then take a look at the real not clutch. Juan Soto 153 of 155, Cal Raleigh 146, Rafael Devers 141, Aaron Judge 138.

Any guesses why so many great hitters are not clutch?
James W - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#465596) #
Any guesses why so many great hitters are not clutch?

Random distribution.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#465597) #
The record vs 500+ teams is fantastic but how are they doing vs potential playoff opponents?
  • AL East: Yankees: 7-3; Red Sox: 7-3
  • Division Leaders: Tigers: 4-3; Astros: 0-3
  • WC potential: Seattle: 4-2; Rangers: 2-1; Cleveland: 3-3
  • WC Remote hope: KC: 1-2; Rays: 1-5; Angels: 4-2
  • NL Likely: Brewers: --; LAD: --; Phillies: 2-4; Cubs: --; Mets: 0-3; Padres: 3-0; Reds: --
So vs AL East: 14-6; Leaders: 4-6; WC potential: 9-6; WC Remote: 6-9; NL Likely: 5-7 with many games to go.

Looks like the Jays better hope the playoff situation in the AL doesn't shift much as those 4+ out have been trouble for them so far.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#465598) #
Well, given clutch is vs the players norm - it is kind of hard to do better than stars do overall. Judge has a 204 wRC+ - if he did even better in 'clutch' then it'd be nuts.

In 'high leverage' in 2025 the best for wRC+ are 6 guys over 200 (Jorge Polanco, J.P. Crawford, Xavier Edwards, Harrison Bader, Carlos Santana, and Wilmer Flores). Shift to 3 years (23-25) and no one is over 200. Kyle Tucker #1 at 195, Shohei Ohtani is #4 at 166, Juan Soto #7 at 159. Judge at 140 (still damn good, #16 overall, but very 'not clutch', Vlad at 124 #37. Again, solid for each of those guys, but not the 'wow' they are overall.

Go to low leverage and Judge is at 222 (past 3 years, 231 just this year), Ohtani #3 at 180, Soto #4 at 176, Vlad #13 142. I suspect in low leverage the big guys take advantage of pitchers relaxing a bit, focusing more on throwing strikes than on nibbling. The old 'he can't hit a grand slam home run with no one on base'.

IMO it makes a LOT of sense that the big guys don't do as well in high leverage, as no sane pitcher will give them anything to hit in those situations and managers will make sure their best pitcher possible is on the mound in those situations. Guys in the 7/8/9 slots you bring in your weaker pitchers, saving your best for the 1-4 slots. Thus those weaker hitters get a shot at doing better than normal.
Mike Green - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#465599) #
Like Bo Bichette, Guerrero Jr. has made strides of a different kind. He's on pace to have a positive W/K for the first time in his career. His W rate is the highest of his career so far and his K rate is the lowest. And he's hitting the ball hard.

I don't know what to make of his HR/FB rate being 14.5%, not that much above league average. His launch angle sweet spot rate is 34%, a little above league average, and his exit velocities are very good. It looks to be that the issue is that he hits a disproportionate number of fly balls to center field and he doesn't quite hit them hard enough to leave the yard. His hardest hit balls are mostly screaming line drives or ground balls.

But I wouldn't get too excited about it. He may not be a great hitter, but he's a very good one now. And you don't want to mess that up.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#465600) #
Like Dark Helmet's view on "Good", personally i think "Clutch" is also dumb.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#465601) #
Vladdy

APR 116wrc+
MAY 143wrc+
JUN 150wrc+
JUL 165wrc+
AUG 139wrc+ - only 5gms played in august

Post-AS: 202wrc+

Terrible April (for him at least), but he's well on his way to finishing as a 150-160wrc+ Top-5-ish hitter in baseball again i think.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#465602) #
John seems to have kinda nailed it. There is some random distribution, but managers will bend over backwards to avoid the best hitters beating them. But they still do sometimes.

Freddy Freeman has been 6th best by clutch this year, one spot behind Ty France. But he's been negative the past 4 seasons, the past 3 worse than where Vladdy's at this year.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#465603) #
yeah John nailed it.
92-93 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#465604) #
Barger's DRS:

-6 in 298 RF innings
+1 in 414 3B innings

It would indeed be a surprise to see him in the lineup today vs. a LHP. Our new Buddy Kennedy will probably get the start, and Heineman to give Kirk the two day breather ahead of the Dodgers. Hopefully nobody will be too bothered if Varsho is in the lineup, though with him being fresh off injury they might go Schneider/Straw/Lukes. Varsho has homered off Freeland though.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#465605) #
Not sure what's best for Barger in the long run, but given the play of Lukes Schneider and now Loperfido and the lack of 3B options other than Clement i think it's definitely in the team's interest this year to keep him at 3B now.

And he's been mostly good at 3B anyways, and adjusting to RF in the future if necessary should be fairly easy.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#465606) #
Of what's looking like the likeliest "healthy" group of position players this year, only Gimenez is producing at lower than a 3war/650pa pace, and even he's barely under at 2.7.

Heineman 11.5
Loperfido 6.6
Kirk 6.1
Varsho 5.6
Vladdy 4.2
Springer 4.0
Barger 3.9
Bichette 3.7
Clement 3.5
Schneider 3.5
Straw 3.2
Lukes 3.1
Gimenez 2.7

other candidates for the roster would be France 0.8 and Santander -2.8.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#465607) #
The Athletic
@TheAthletic
·
1m
In Sept. 2008, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux were slotted to pitch the third game of a three-game series between the Diamondbacks and Dodgers.

Both got scratched. Their replacements?

Two unknown rookies named Max Scherzer and Clayton Kershaw.



The Athletic
@TheAthletic
·
1m
As Max Scherzer and Clayton Kershaw get set to square off Friday for the fifth time in their illustrious careers, it’s the first matchup between the pitching stars that attracts attention.



https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6531078/2025/08/06/clayton-kershaw-max-scherzer-rookie-meeting-diamondbacks-dodgers/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=twhq&source=twitterhq
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#465608) #
The Red Sox have extended Anthony — 8/$130m with club option for a ninth season. The contract includes escalators that could bring the total value to $230m. The 21-year-old is hitting .283/.400/.428 this season (his rookie year).
Nigel - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#465609) #
Unless giving him the day off is needed for his injury recovery, Varsho should definitely be in the line-up today. OF defence is a huge thing in Colorado and having both Straw and Varsho in the line-up makes sense.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#465610) #
no varsho.

LF Schneider
3B Clement
DH Guerrero
SS Bichette
1B France
2B Kennedy
RF Lukes
C Heineman
CF Straw
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#465611) #
How does Kennedy not only make it into the line-up but not at the bottom of it.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#465612) #
Honestly, I have more faith in Kennedy than France, who I believe has swung at every first pitch he's seen of each AB with the Jays - including two last night that were nowhere near the plate.

Maybe they expect him to be pinch-hit for as soon as the lefty is out amd expect that hitter to be better? I dunno...
Nigel - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#465613) #
The lineup against a LH is pretty thin without Kirk and Springer.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#465614) #
Agreed Nigel, they need big hits from the top of the lineup.
And Bo cranks one as I type!
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#465615) #
Clement has huge splits and Schneider is a real bat.
electric carrot - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#465616) #
"And Bo cranks one as I type!"
That homer is fly ball or at best a double in any other park. Not complaining.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#465617) #
Alan Roden and Austin Martin both with their 2nd career HR's and 1st this year for the Twins.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#465618) #
Kennedy is probably slotted so that they can replace him with Barger ASAP.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#465619) #
Electric carrot- Bo hit it 402 feet, 102.6 MPH off the bat.
Baseball savant gave it an expected hit of 0.770 and it would be a homer in 29/30 parks.

Whereas, yesterday Rockies’ catcher Goodman hit one 379 feet at 92MPH. Expected hit of 0.060 (not a typo) but a homer weirdly in all 30. I guess those stats use different inputs.

Either way, I take issue with calling Bo’s a cheapie!
vw_fan17 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#465620) #
Seems no one cares about Clutch. And probably for good reason. Far and away the most clutch pitcher for the Jays this year has been Chad Green. 2nd place is close, but edging out Chris Bassitt by a whisker, it's Justin Bruihl.

I spent a few minutes trying to find the stats you were referring to, but couldn't find any pitching stats specifically labeled "clutch" - no idea if you were talking mlb, espn, fangraphs, BBRef, or a dozen other sites, etc.

I found some leverage index and such, and yes Chad Green had good numbers, but I couldn't be sure I was looking at the same numbers as you, so I didn't comment.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#465621) #
Vive le France!
vw_fan17 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#465622) #
Re: Jomboy

Any context on that, uglyone? I have zero idea of what that's about..
electric carrot - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#465623) #
"Bo hit it 402 feet, 102.6 MPH off the bat.
Baseball savant gave it an expected hit of 0.770 and it would be a homer in 29/30 parks."

I was going by my eye. Real question: Is Savant accounting for thin air? Does it go 402 feet in every park? My thought was that the thin air made it travel that far. It did not look like a homer off the bat to me.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#465624) #
Jomboy is a great baseball content guy in general, but a yankees fan in particular. He had a fantastic interview with Boone a week or two ago where Boone got really upset with him, but it wasn't deserved.

Not a crazy fanboy, so his pained reactions to yankees losses are especially sweet, and I thought his reaction went well with my yankees updates from last night!
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#465625) #
Vive le France!

Vive la France, surely.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#465626) #
how do you say grammar police in french?
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#465627) #
Clutch is FG Win Probability far right.

Schneider makes incomprehensible lineup decisions, and 90% of the time, they somehow work out.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#465629) #
The country France is feminine, hence "la". Ty is masculine, hence "le" would describe him, no? I may be wrong since my French lessons were over 50 years ago.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#465630) #
it was the ingenious Colabello/Smoak platoon that the Gibber used that had nothing to do with R/L splits, and everything to do with pitcher pitch types and velos, that learned me good that managers are playing with much much more information than we are.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#465631) #
ha, thanks for the support Hypo!


and it's surprisingly simple - Police de Grammaire

uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#465632) #
today offers more support for the arguments that neither Lukes nor Schneider is necessarily a platoon player.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#465633) #
I’m very happy to see Schneider’s resurgence. I was one of the fools who left him for dead. So glad to have been wrong.
Eephus - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#465634) #
As Heineman’s miracle whipping of the ball continues, I’m hit by the question: what is the best season by a Blue Jays backup catcher?

The franchise has had a fair number of platoons/job share situations (Kirk/Jansen, Zaun/Molina, Whitt/Martinez before my time etc) but what about just a pure backup guy never pressed into extended action? (Fingers crossed for Kirk’s continued health of course).

Criteria for such a distinction is also up for debate.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#465635) #
Kennedy is probably slotted so that they can replace him with Barger ASAP

Great call scottt! And Barger delivered.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#465636) #
Greg Myers' wonderful return stint with the Jays comes to mind....but pretty sure he ended up earning the starting job that year.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#465637) #
my Schneider persistence was more based on hope.....but at the same time, his milb track record was incredibly solid and consistent, and i couldn't shake the feeling that his horrific stretch to end last year was just the baseball gods correcting that historic awe-inspiring start to his career the year before.

or at least, that it was as easy to dismiss his worst stretch as a fluke as it was to dismiss his ridiculous hot stretch.
JB21 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#465638) #
I was thinking Greg Myers as well, until he rolled his ankle in... Tampa?
92-93 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#465639) #
I pretty much predicted today's lineup, so not sure what part of it was incomprehensible?

If it was about who batted where in the order, that obviously mattered very little with the personnel on hand. Perhaps Lukes could've been in front of Kennedy, whatever.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#465640) #
yanks are up by 1 in the 8th. let's see how they blow this one.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#465641) #
L'Office Quebecois de la Langue Francaise? In Quebec, it's not a rethorical question.
Hodgie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#465642) #
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#465643) #
haven't seen near enough of that oppo power from vladdy this year. nice.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#465644) #
Excellent question on best backup catcher season - I looked at FG and set it to 200-299 PA (played a fair amount, but not full-time/strong half of a platoon) and got 2022 Danny Jansen 2.7 fWAR 141 wRC+, 2018 Luke Maile 2.0 fWAR 94 wRC+ (great D). That's it for 2+ WAR seasons with sub 300 PA. 1997 Charlie O'Brien up there at 1.9 (72 wRC+), 2008 Greg Zaun 1.9, 1983 Buck Martinez 1.9 (114 wRC+), 1982 Buck Martinez 1.8 (91 wRC+).

Thanks for the idea - fun looking back and remembering some of those guys.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#465645) #
is David Joseph Popkins about to salvage Ty vive le France, too?
electric carrot - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#465646) #
Jays should just call their run differential the Colorado differential.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#465647) #
Bednar closing for the yanks....2 quick outs...then a walk and a single.

uh oh.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#465648) #
Weird series that is for sure - also really improved the runs for/against ratio. 15-1, 10-4, 12-1 so far today. +20 before today which is adding another 10+ it looks like depending on who pitches in garbage time. Jays just +16 before this series. So looking at adding +30 or more. Insanity. We know it won't be that easy in Dodgerland next - if it is then the Jays are going to be golden this year.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#465649) #
umps want yanks to lose. love it.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#465650) #
dang it. Adolis K. yanks win.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#465651) #
Jays crack the top-5 in runs scored, still 6th in runs per game tho.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#465652) #
ah Tigers lose. Jays about to go 2gms clear in 1st AL.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#465653) #
Yankees host the Astros next. It's 3 important losses either way.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#465654) #
vlad impalin'
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#465655) #
Might be garbage time for the pitchers, but it's home run derby time for the hitters.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#465656) #
jays move into 9th MLB in run diff.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#465657) #
jays have a had a few outings vs. position players and never seem to nail them like they should. so this is nice.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#465658) #
run diff don't lie
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#465659) #
vlad so unclutch.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#465660) #
They are talking about a mercy rule, but it's a lot like the homerun derby. Jays fans in the crowd are clearly having fun.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#465661) #
Shhht.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#465662) #
Jays move into 4th overall in runs at 576. Still 6th in runs per game tho.

But move into a 3-way tie in 2nd overall with LAD and CHC with a team 114wrc+. Behind only NYY at 115.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#465663) #
What an AB. It looks like he tried to run on a foul off his foot and deposited the next pitch an inch in front of the plate.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#465664) #
Another comeback win!
John Northey - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#465665) #
That was weird, massive sweep but 2 games were come from behind wins. Go figure. It is a funny game.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#465666) #
Jays used 8 pitchers at Coors. 7 of the 8 improved their ERA's.c
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#465667) #
Jays first sweep ever at Coors!

They've never swept the Dodgers anywhere.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#465668) #
I believe Ty France is just the fourth player in franchise history to knock out four doubles in one game (along with Damaso Garcia, Shannon Stewart, and Alex Rios.)

That was quick.
Glevin - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#465669) #
Springer still not cleared to play for Buffalo. Gimenez is in his second game so maybe he joins team in Los Angeles.
Petey Baseball - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#465670) #
Thanks to Bell Canada's Extra Innings package, there's nine empty channels broadcasting a Toronto radio station and none broadcasting the Red Sox-Royals game. Gotta love it.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#465671) #
From ESPN:
Toronto finished with 63 hits in the series, the most by a team in a three-game set since 1900.
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#465672) #
Lots of positives in this series. Fingers crossed that Springer feels 100% soon and can start a rehab assignment.
electric carrot - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#465673) #
Run differential +55
Rox differential +33
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#465674) #
"I believe Ty France is just the fourth player in franchise history to knock out four doubles in one game (along with Damaso Garcia, Shannon Stewart, and Alex Rios.)

That was quick."


His name is David Joseph Popkins.
electric carrot - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#465675) #
Correction:
Run differential +55
Rox differential +39
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#465676) #
KC has pulled ahead of Boston 3-2 in the fifth inning tonight. It would be great if KC won and Boston fell 4 games behind the Blue Jays heading into an off-day.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#465677) #
Jordan Hicks, embedded Blue Jay, gives up a three run homer, Red Sox down 6-2.
scottt - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#465678) #
Royals have a nice stretch coming up, Twins, Nats, White Sox.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#465679) #
Five Royals have been hit by pitches tonight. The AL and major league record is six.

Plenty of time...
Kelekin - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#465681) #
I knew when I saw Buddy Kennedy hitting 6th that scoring 20 runs would be the outcome.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#465682) #
Well that was a pretty good series.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#465683) #
MLB wRC+

1. Judge 204
2. Ohtani 166
3. Schwarber 163
4. Raleigh 160
5. Stowers 155
6. Springer 148
7. Guerrero 146
8. Buxton 145
9. Pena 144
10. Aranda 144
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#465684) #
The Red Sox did indeed lose so it's a 4 game lead over them for the division (effectively 5 games because the Jays already have the tiebreaker)

The Rangers loss means the Jays are 8 games clear of a playoff spot, period.
92-93 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#465685) #
Schneider said Gimenez needs around 20 AB before he comes back, so he’ll probably just rejoin the team on Tuesday at home vs. the Cubs. He’s 0/6 with 3 Ks thus far.

The Springer update sounds kinda weird. Whatever tests he went through today didn’t clear him to play tonight. Get well soon, George.
92-93 - Wednesday, August 06 2025 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#465686) #
Some WPAs today:

Bichette .210
Lukes .096
Guerrero -.026
Clement -.059
John Northey - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:22 AM EDT (#465687) #
Those WPA's make no sense - Vlad had 4 hits (7 AB) with a home run and a double but gets a negative WPA? Clement 4 for 7 with a double and gets a negative WPA as well? Sheesh. Lukes was 1 for 5 (a triple) and gets a positive WPA. Very weird. Certainly makes one put a lot less weight on WPA.
vw_fan17 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:59 AM EDT (#465688) #
Some WPAs today:
Bichette .210

Bo knows Colorado?
Michael - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:14 AM EDT (#465689) #
Well that certainly was some series. Colorado made the hitting and pitching look pretty good.
pooks137 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:55 AM EDT (#465690) #
Those WPA's make no sense - Vlad had 4 hits (7 AB) with a home run and a double but gets a negative WPA? Clement 4 for 7 with a double and gets a negative WPA as well? Sheesh.

WPA is fickle. Vlad & Ernie were penalized for not performing early in the game when the score was closer.

They both took a minor penalty for failing to cash in Davis Schneider's leadoff double in the top of the 1st.

Then Clement struck out with Tyler Heineman on 2nd to end the inning in the 4th with the game 3-1. Vlad would strike out to leadoff the 5th.

By the time Clement came up again in the 6th, the game was 7-1 & WPA stopped awarding any more points.

adrianveidt - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 06:56 AM EDT (#465691) #
Is there some way to arrange to play the Rockies in the world series?
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:27 AM EDT (#465692) #
Lukes (30) Career

vRHP: 363pa, .277babip, 118wrc+
vLHP: 55pa, .300babip, 104wrc+
Total: 418pa, .279babip, 116wrc+, 3.4war/650


Schneider (26) Career

vRHP: 457pa, .285babip, 107wrc+
vLHP: 274pa, .276babip, 112wrc+
Total: 731pa, .281babip, 109wrc+, 2.9war/650


Barger (25) Career

vRHP: 472pa, .282babip, 114wrc+
vLHP: 104pa, .292babip, 53wrc+
Total: 576pa, .284babip, 102wrc+, 1.9war/650


Clement (29) Career

vRHP: 805pa, .279babip, 83wrc+
vLHP: 444pa, .280babip, 96wrc+
Total: 1249pa, .279babip, 88wrc+, 2.5war/650


Loperfido (26) Career

vRHP: 271pa, .383babip, 101wrc+
vLHP: 70pa, .341babip, 84wrc+
Total: 341pa, .374babip, 97wrc+, 1.7war/650
SK in NJ - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#465693) #
That was a fun series (Joey HBP aside). Probably best not to read too much into the offensive performance but on the bright side it bumped the run differential up significantly so maybe that talk can subside a bit.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#465694) #
Using 3yr Splits wRC+

vRHP

1. LF Lukes 118
2. DH Springer 116
3. 1B Guerrero 141
4. RF Santander 115
5. 3B Barger 114
6. SS Bichette 112
7. 2B Schneider 107
8. C Alejandro 100
9. CF Varsho 92

B. UT Clement 93
B. OF Straw 69
B. IF Gimenez 94
B. C Heineman 104

X. UT France 98
X. OF Loperfido 101
X. IF Kennedy 102
X. C Bethancourt 67

X. OF Clase 86
X. IF Jimenez 74



vLHP

1. 2B Schneider 112
2. 3B Clement 113
3. 1B Guerrero 149
4. SS Bichette 113
5. RF Santander 111
6. C Alejandro 104
7. LF Lukes 104
8. DH Springer 95
9. CF Varsho 102

B. UT Barger 53
B. OF Straw 78
B. IF Gimenez 74
B. C Heineman 207

X. UT France 102
X. OF Loperfido 84
X. IF Kennedy 38
X. C Bethancourt 80

X. OF Clase 53
X. IF Jimenez 109
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#465695) #
Jays just reached #1 on position player WAR at FG.
Jays 24.8
Cubs 24.3
NYY 22.5
LAD 20.8

The 3 games at Coors lifted the hitting from 6th place 109 wRC+ to 2nd place 114, just behind NYY's 115.

And one SSS:
Ty France as a Jay yesterday
pre-game: -22 fWAR
post-game: 189 fWAR
dalimon5 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#465696) #
Jays have also been #1 (by a wide margin) for a long time when using strikeout to walk differential instead of run differential. Blair and Barker had a guest on talking about this stat being more relevant and used by front offices more so than run differential or something like that.
scottt - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#465697) #
Schneider and Kennedy played on the same South Jersey team. They were joined by Loperfido in 15/16 on the All South Jersey.
92-93 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#465698) #
The WPAs make perfect sense if you understand what it's telling you. Bo hit a huge 3-run HR with the team down a run, and Lukes hit a big 2-run triple to increase the lead from 2 to 4 runs. Vladdy and Ernie both did nothing with a runner on second in the 0-0 first inning, and then compiled their hits with the bases empty and/or with a nine+ run lead.
dalimon5 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#465699) #
Yeah I find WPA a lot more valuable than WAR personally, but does it factor in strength of opponent in situational hitting?
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#465700) #
For anyone with a subscription to The Athletic, arguably the best story on the Jays this year.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6538726/2025/08/07/blue-jays-al-east-expectations-2025/

"The offseason overhaul began with the hiring of hitting coach David Popkins, who made such an impression during his interview that he was offered the job that night. “Easiest hire of my managerial career,” said Schneider, who felt like his players were eager for more information and a modernized approach"

"Gausman said they haven’t had to force any team bonding. Guys want to be around each other, and the younger guys are so into the game’s minutiae and improving on the margins that Gausman endearingly calls them baseball rats."

“Great teams are a sum of their parts. … Here, everybody recognized their (past) mistakes in this whole organization,” Scherzer said. “(The front office) upstairs, coaches, players — everybody really wanted to fix everything, and they wanted a total overhaul of operations. It’s tough to know how bad the past was. I just get to see what the changes are, and right now this is a well-functioning team in every facet.”
92-93 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#465701) #
No, it merely sums up the win probability added or subtracted by the batter's result and has no regard for the defense or who throws the pitch. If the runner on first makes an incredible read on a double and scores, the batter gets all the credit.
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#465702) #
Late tie game. With a runner on 2nd and 2 outs, batter hits a rocket, but Varsho races back and makes a great catch. Who gets the WPA for that crucial play?
92-93 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#465703) #
The pitcher gets all of it, and the batter gets dinged. WPA doesn't care about defense, and WAR doesn't care about context. You need to actually watch the games and blend these kind of stats together.
Petey Baseball - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#465704) #
The article makes a few mentions of the more granular changes that happened in the Jays day to day from '24 to '25.

The returns of Santander and Bieber and even more bullpen depth (Sandlin was good before getting injured) give the Jays a good chance to win the AL overall. The article doesn't even mention how a healthy Santander may have made this offence even better.
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#465705) #
You need to actually watch the games and blend these kind of stats together.

If you paid attention while you watched the game, what does WPA tell you that you didn't already know?
scottt - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#465706) #
I thought "more information and a modernized approach" was what Guillermo Martinez was providing. And who exactly are his players? Certainly not Springer, Guerrero and Bichette.
JB21 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#465707) #
"If you paid attention while you watched the game, what does WPA tell you that you didn't already know?"

My guess is that it's supposed to confirm the eye test.
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#465709) #
I thought "more information and a modernized approach" was what Guillermo Martinez was providing.

Maybe you thought wrong?
mathesond - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#465711) #
Maybe Martinez thought wrong.
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#465712) #
Season long WPA seems to align fairly closely with wRC+ for the most part, except players on teams with below average starting pitching seem to take a hit for the most part. Hard to pick up WPA when you're in a 5-0 hole in the 2nd inning.
SK in NJ - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#465713) #
Maybe it wasn't Guillermo, but rather someone that walked into the org in 2023, was given the "offensive coordinator" role in 2024, and was quoted as saying "damage is kind of a scary word" a little over 12 months ago when talking about the offense that he was overseeing.
soupman - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#465714) #
On paper this lineup looked incredibly easy to pitch to going into the season. It looked like a team that might get no-hit a couple times and which would struggle in the playoffs.

The fact that the Jays have become one of, if not THE, toughest teams to get out at the plate is a genuine surprise to me.

It would seem that whatever Popkins and the org is preaching, the players are listening to and most importantly executing. I don't see guys going out there and trying to go into business for themselves. For the most part they take selfless PAs al the time, and the sum has been greater than its parts. While I think some of this is batted ball 'luck', they're actually third in the division in team babip behind the Sox and Rays.

When they made the trades to ship Two and Lourdes and get Varsho and solidify the defence this is what I thought the ceiling of the team was. It's nice that the vision is finally starting to materialize on the field.

I read the Athletic article, and reading between the lines I do think that the changes that took place sounds much more social than technical. In other words, this upswing has more to do with improving communication, trust, and buy-in than it does in jumps in ability, training, etc. Looks like a healthy workplace
Nigel - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#465715) #
Over a big enough sample size wRC+ and WPA generally align, with WPA adding in a dose of "clutch(luck)". As a consequence, wRC+ tends to be more predictive whereas WPA is far less so.
Nigel - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#465716) #
On offence the changes are fairly obvious and not just social. Both the front office (in terms of players to roster) and the players themselves have accepted an offensive approach more focused on contact and long sequence offence over swing and miss/"do damage". Secondly, and not to be overlooked, they stopped running the bases like jackasses.
soupman - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#465717) #
Those examples are precisely what I'm calling a social shift underlying the observable behavioural changes (e.g. not running through stop signs as you point at).



GabrielSyme - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#465718) #
You have to assume there is some kind of concerted organizational shift on the hitting side when the Jays are on pace (pretty comfortably) to have the lowest strikeout rate of any team since 2016.
Katie - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#465719) #
That's a really good article by Britt Ghiroli at the Athletic. Thanks for linking it.

The article also emphasizes the individual approach of Popkins, Ianotti and Mense. The article doesn't say this directly, but I feel like there's a clear implication that previously they had been too focused on a uniform approach to the offence, rather than individual skillsets or situational hitting. To me, that was the focus of the difference compared to the prior years. Some of that may be driven by the players they have, of course.

I was a bit skeptical of the Popkins signing, given that it likely spelled the end of Matt Hague in Toronto and he had received a lot of praise for his work in Buffalo and Toronto, but, whatever role Popkins has played this year, the move has gone well as possible.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#465720) #
I still feel that it was more the jays' bats underachieving the previous couple years than overachieving now.

The current individual offensive production is along the lines of what the projections thought before the season.
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#465721) #
Pre-season I thought the Matt Hague loss was a real blow. Then he goes to the Pirates and they go from an awful 86 wRC+ last year to an even worse 81 wRC+ this year, highlighted by Bryan Reynolds complete implosion.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#465722) #
I had the same opinion as hyperbole about the loss of Matt Hague. Wrong.

The club faces Kershaw, Snell and Yamamoto starting tomorrow. A good test.
Glevin - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#465723) #
I am loathe to give coaches too much credit or blame especially at major league level. I agree with Ugly that a lot of it is just players playing to their expected level. I mean, aside from Springer who is having a season that is out of line with their expected numbers? Maybe Barger but that is just development. That isn't to say coaches don't matter just that I don't think, in most cases, they make that much of a difference.
Nigel - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#465724) #
They've had a ton of production from the bottom end of the roster that would have to be viewed at "unexpected" (Lukes, Heineman, Loperfido, Wagner, Straw).
Jonny German - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#465725) #
I think they deserve some real credit for Straw. His overall batting line is as weak as ever, but they’ve deployed him effectively and gotten great value from his glove.

Also credit for identifying him as someone that could be useful to this team - most of us assumed his contract was dead money when they acquired him.
SK in NJ - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#465727) #
Reading some of the quotes from pre-season, especially about Barger and (Davis) Schneider, I think the hitting coach change is more impactful than people think.
Nigel - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#465728) #
Jonny - that's bang on with respect to Shaw. I kept posting in the spring that the FO clearly had an intention to roster him and saw value there. Nobody would take on his contract otherwise. I didn't see why they had that view, but they clearly had a vision and they were 100% correct.

The other data point about the value of coaching can be found with Febles. Hiring someone who knows what they are doing has fundamentally altered that aspect of the running game. Its value shouldn't be underestimated. On the one hand, kudos to the FO and Schneider for correcting a bad situation. On the other hand, its an indictment that they let that situation get as bad as it was.
Ryan Day - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#465729) #
[Straw's] overall batting line is as weak as ever...,

So far, he's putting up the 2nd-best OPS of his career (third if you count his 56 games in 2019)
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#465730) #
Almost impossible for us to know how much or how little coaching has to do with a players success, Often the changes suggested by coaches are subtle. I know they (which of the 3 coaches, IDK) made some changes to Loperfido, but only because it was mentioned in passing during a couple of broadcasts.

Dwayne Murphy with Jose and Phil Plantier with Urshela are the only 2 publicised success stories the past 15 years I can recall.

And some players are unfixable. Jays tried to close some holes in Kevin Smiths swing, but he became a mess because of "muscle memory" where his brain was telling his body to use the new swing, but his muscles kept trying to use his old swing.
Magpie - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#465731) #
Dwayne Murphy with Jose and Phil Plantier with Urshela are the only 2 publicised success stories the past 15 years I can recall.

I would also mention Gene Tenace with Marco Scutaro and Cito himself with Adam Lind. I remember thinking at the time that it was probably very helpful to have three guys on staff who had been hitting coaches. One size seldom fits all.

' Guys, 300 plus comments? At this rate, I will have to start a new thread for every single game.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#465732) #
"They've had a ton of production from the bottom end of the roster that would have to be viewed at "unexpected" (Lukes, Heineman, Loperfido, Wagner, Straw)."

Not really tbh.

Projected wRC+ --> actual wrc+ ---> difference

Under

Jimenez 103 ----- -20 --> -123
Santander 126 --- 63 ---> -63
Roden 112 ------- 66 ---> -46
Wagner 118 ------ 86 ---> -32
Gimenez 107 ----- 78 ---> -29
Clase 88 -------- 68 ---> -20

Even

Guerrero 152 ---- 146 ---> -6
Kirk 118 -------- 117 ---> -1
Clement 100 ----- 101 ---> +1
Bichette 120 ---- 126 ---> +6
Straw 74 -------- 81 ----> +7
Lukes 108 ------> 117 ---> +9

Over

Barger 107 -----> 124 ---> +17
Varsho 104 ------ 124 ---> +20
Schneider 108 --> 136 ---> +28
Springer 109 ---> 148 ---> +39
Heineman 77 ----> 155 ---> +78
Loperfido 92 ---> 177 ---> +85


greenfrog - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#465733) #
ESPN released its latest Power Rankings. The Blue Jays are #6 in MLB. Every team ranked ahead of them, with the exception of Milwaukee, has a worse W-L record than Toronto.
scottt - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#465734) #
I think the hitting coach change is very impactful and should have happened earlier.

I think the impact is mostly with young players who weren't expected to play an important role. They work on bunting, moving runners and cashing runs. The top of the lineup was supposed to be Bo-Vladdy-Santander and carry the team.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#465735) #
I agree that the hitting coach deserves a share of the credit, as most players have improved in some respect in 2025. The Manager and the FO deserve some credit also- the mixing and matching in the lineup seems to have helped players get enough work, enough rest, and put them in situations best suited to help them succeed on average. For its part, the FO has not rushed to return injured players too early, as it often did in previous years.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#465736) #
I give the FO tons of credit for actually playing to win this year, and not mucking around trying to maximize value.

When guys haven't performed, they've been sent down or released. That's not only good for maximizing effective performers, but it tells the rest of the team that they're not mucking around.

The only time i've been upset with the FO all year this year is when they kept forcing Francis to start when there was absolutely no reason to - he was awful, they had other options, they had a string of off days to skip him, and he was easily demotable with his option year.

That was the only time this year they seemed to be making personnel decisions for reasons other than maximizing winning this year.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#465738) #
https://x.com/MLB/status/1953527875174318229
Jonny German - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#465740) #
Straw's] overall batting line is as weak as ever...,

So far, he's putting up the 2nd-best OPS of his career (third if you count his 56 games in 2019)


2025 OPS+ 79, career OPS+ 76.
2025 wRC+ 81, career wRC+ 79.

Same as he ever was.
John Northey - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#465741) #
This weekend series vs LAD will be a great test for the team and I suspect they all know it. 3 games vs the team seen pre-season as the extreme favorite to run away with it, at 66-49 they have a 2 game lead on the Padres, the smallest division lead in MLB (tied with Astros over Seattle) - Jays have a 4 game lead, 2nd biggest (tied with Brewers over Cubs, Tigers have 6 over Cleveland).

July 1st to now...
  • Jays offense/defense #1 in MLB with 11.7 fWAR, far ahead of #2 Milwaukee 7.7. The A's are #3 (!) at 6.7. Dodgers are #25 at 2.6
  • Dodgers: Betts 55 wRC+, Kim 13, Teocar 94, Freeman 121, Ohtani 144, Will Smith 166.
  • Pitching: Jays #11 3.0, Dodgers #3 4.3
  • Dodgers: Yamamoto 1.4 fWAR, 2.71 xFIP 2.23 ERA, Yikes; Kershaw 4.71 xFIP 3.67 ERA; Glasnow 3.12 xFIP 2.17 ERA. That will be challenging. But all 3 are barely over 5 IP per game, none at 6 IP per game.
  • Bullpens: Jays #18 0.4 fWAR 4.82 ERA 4.03 xFIP; Dodgers #10 0.9 fWAR 4.30 ERA 4.61 xFIP. Dodgers have used 19 relievers since July 1st (Wow), Jays 17 (still way too many) 9 Jays have 5+ IP in the pen, 5 with 10+, Dodgers 11 with 5+ IP, 4 with 10+. Clearly both are rotating through a lot of guys seeing who can do the job and who cannot.
This should be a good series. Potentially a WS preview.
scottt - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#465742) #
Adam Lind was a platoon bat but the coaches could not accept it and that was so painful to watch.
John Northey - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#465744) #
From 2002-2014 for the Jays we saw Platoon splits like this (wRC+)...
  • Lind: vs LHP: 54 vs RHP: 129
  • Hudson: vs LHP: 53 vs RHP: 106
  • Koskie: vs LHP: 51 vs RHP: 112
  • Gose: vs LHP: 39 vs RHP: 86
  • Adams: vs LHP: 38 vs RHP: 86
  • Cruz Jr: vs LHP: 59 vs RHP: 110
  • Catalanotto: vs LHP: 60 vs RHP: 117
  • Bordick: vs LHP: 160 vs RHP: 62
  • Phelps: vs LHP: 133 vs RHP: 102
Just a few guys I was curious about in addition to Lind. Back then the team was very poorly run. Clearly a lot of these guys should've been platooned who weren't. JPR dreamed of a set lineup but didn't have the parts. I like how the current team tries to find what guys do well and put them in those spots. Much like how Cito Gaston did in the early 90's - he'd test them in all kinds of roles early in a season then when crunch time came he knew who could do what, and who couldn't do what. You don't ask Alfredo Griffin to pinch hit, you don't ask Frank Thomas to play defense, but in the JPR era you'd expect crap like that to happen.
SK in NJ - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#465745) #
The talent still has to perform but coaching can help maximize that performance, whether with adjustments, better in-game preparation, etc. The Jays are clearly benefiting from that with Popkins and company. Credit to the front office for seeing how 2024 ended up and realizing they needed organizational change from top to bottom.
John Northey - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#465746) #
Had to check something - this year (so far) 626 relievers have been used. Dead last in reliever fWAR? Chad Green (-1.0). Ryan Rolison is 2nd last at -0.7 for Colorado. Best for the Jays is Braydon Fisher at #21 (1.1) tied with Brendon Little. Louis Varland also is at 1.1 but listed at #17 (highest of the 1.1's). Go by xFIP (10+ IP) and Tommy Nance is #14 2.79, tied with Jeff Hoffman.

Man that is a LOT of relievers. 20.9 per team. Plus some were with 2 or more teams (63 with 2, 9 with 3 so far).

Go back to 2015 when the Jays last won a division and you get 565 relievers (18.8 per team) 62 with 2 teams, 0 with 3+ teams.

Go back to 1985 (first Jays division title) and you get 333 relievers (12.8 per team). Bill Caudill was the worst Jay reliever that year (to the shock of no one who was alive then), Dennis Lamp the best the Jays had (11-0 record for a reason - he was damn effective in middle relief).

So 8 more relievers per team per year over 40 years, not as much of a jump as I expected to be honest. In '85 you never heard of a LOOGY, or saw teams worry about guys pitching multiple days in a row. Heck, in '87 Henke (the Jays closer at the time) went 2 2/3 IP in the All-Star game with few yelling about it. Just 9 pitchers on the AL squad, 7 used.
vw_fan17 - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#465747) #
Go back to 1985 (first Jays division title) and you get 333 relievers (12.8 per team). Bill Caudill was the worst Jay reliever that year (to the shock of no one who was alive then), Dennis Lamp the best the Jays had (11-0 record for a reason - he was damn effective in middle relief).

John - you sure you didn't look at Bill Caudill's 1986 line by accident? In 1985, he had an ERA of 2.99, WAR of 1.0 and ERA+ of 142. Sure, Lamp had WAR of 1.3 - in almost 2x the innings, and Acker 1.2 (more innings). Even mighty Tom Henke only had 1.1 in '85. And Lavelle was just slightly worse at 0.9 WAR. Not our "best", but hard to say he was the worst of the "regulars" - only Henke had a better ERA+.

And then there were the scrubs.. Musselman and Clarke with WAR 0.0, Cerutti (RIP) at -0.3, Steve Davis at 0.2, and Tom Filer (decent) at 0.8.

He wasn't heads and shoulders above the others, but - he led the team in saves, was 2nd in ERA+ (for the relievers). That's your WORST reliever? 1986, when he had WAR -0.4? I could see that - but that year Lamp was at -0.7. Don Gordon -0.9, Clarke -0.6 (in 1/3 the innings), etc, etc..

I know the memories of the slow start still stick with me too - he allowed 10 ER in his first 7 appearances and had an ERA of 9.31 on April 23 and felt like a total bust.

He then went 10 appearances without an ER, racking up 5 saves and a win, and his ERA was 4.22 on May 15. He gave up 2 ER on May 17, and then 14 appearances without an ER and got his ERA down to 3.24 on June 20. His ERA got no higher than 3.55 the rest of the year, ending up with a low of 2.81 on Oct 1, 1985. He then gave up 2 runs in a blowout loss on the penultimate game of the season to end at 2.99.
Michael - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#465748) #
The Brittany Ghiroli article from the athletic on the Jays was great. Brittany's been a great baseball writer going back more than 15 years when she was writing as a baseball prospectus idol contestant.

John Northey - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#465749) #
Nope, 1985. Caudill was -0.3 fWAR (not bWAR), K/9 5.97 BB/9 4.54 HR/9 1.17. Just a 215 BABIP and 82.7% LOB which is how he got those saves and low ERA. His FIP was 4.65 vs ERA of 2.99. BR uses ERA, FG uses FIP which really makes a big difference here. His WPA was -1.5, cWPA was -2.1% which fits what I recall seeing at the time. He had 2 shutout appearances (2 wins) to start '85, then allowed runs in 4 of his next 5 games (2 blown saves, 2 saves, a win, got the loss in both blown saves) at which point I think Bobby Cox lost all confidence in him. 5 saves in his next 9 games (0 runs) then 2 bad games in a row (5 runs in 2/3 IP). After that he was still used as a closer sometimes (6 saves, 1 blown, in 28 games) but he'd never really get the full confidence back. Henke then came up and that was it for Caudill. Over 2+ months left he was in 21 games 0-2 record 1 save, 1 blown, 2 holds. 2.78 ERA but 5.11 FIP (IE: he'd do a high wire act and get away with it often). For the first half of '86 he kept getting away with it (3.86 ERA on July 10th) but then it fell apart 10.38 ERA over the next 16 games. He went back to Oakland to finish off his career (where he was a 36 save guy) but 6 games was all that was left. 8 IP 8 R.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#465750) #
Has anyone heard an update on George Springer’s injury?
Marc Hulet - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#465751) #
Jays are being very quiet over Springer in the last couple of days.

Gimenez didn't play today but it was a day game after a night game.

Manoah was... not good in AA. Wild and topping out around 91 mph.
uglyone - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#465752) #
Legend

https://x.com/longleysunsport/status/1953633692426863035
hypobole - Thursday, August 07 2025 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#465753) #
A couple of days ago Springer still hadn't "checked all the boxes"
dalimon5 - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#465754) #
Concussions can be very tricky with long lingering effects. I suffered a concussion and so have been very sensitive to any sudden movements of my head. I hope it doesn't derail George's season. How many ppl think 2024 and 2023 were soft down years for him because he was still suffering long term concussion symptoms?

Took me about two years to feel normal again and as mentioned I can't do any type of serious motion anymore (roller coasters, spinning etc). I was hit with a softball off a metal bat.
John Northey - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 02:25 AM EDT (#465755) #
Concussions are a strange thing - my 19 year old daughter had a couple playing hockey (she is a full speed ahead type who scores a lot thus has a bullseye on her out there). The worst one was during a tournament, and the coach didn't figure out she had one right away so she kept playing that game. After it we all figured it out fast (any light was giving her a headache), and she stayed in the room with lights out all night and by the next day was feeling 100% again. The team was out of the tournament by that point, so we went to the doctor and she couldn't believe my kid had a concussion just a day earlier as there were no signs of it left. She got a note saying as much and was back playing that week with no ill effects. Go figure. FYI: the league has a stack of rules around concussions, and like Springer she had to check off all the boxes and did within 48 hours. She had a teammate who had one as well early in the season and she didn't come back all season. So you can tell the league did take it seriously.

Each person is different, each concussion is different. I'm glad the Jays and MLB seem to be erring on the side of too careful vs the old days when it was 'suck it up' and get back out there.
John Northey - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 02:45 AM EDT (#465757) #
FYI: Just got curious about ex-Jays in Minnesota. Roden somehow is hitting worse as a Twin (61 wRC+ vs 66 here). Austin Martin is better (99 wRC+ this year) but still has a negative WAR due to horrid defense and bad baserunning (-2 DRS in CF in just 37 innings, 1 SB 1 CS, just 21 PA). Both are now regulars for the AAA team calling itself the Minnesota Twins. Thomas Hatch is in their pen (5 1/3 IP 3.38 ERA). Must be hard on guys like Joe Ryan who are legit ML'ers (same for any solid players on the Rockies, or White Sox).
Glevin - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#465759) #
I think they rushed Gimenez back last time which perhaps led to the ankle injury. He clearly wasn't himself. Wasn't stealing, wasn't taking extra bases and when you start favouring a part of your body, it's easy to injure another part. I'd rather they be careful with their players than rush them back.
hypobole - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#465760) #
Remember years back KLaw saying we should give a player entering the league 500 PA's before making a reasonably accurate determination about their ability.

Almost 340 comments in and has anyone mentioned Kris Bryant? The one big FA splash the Rockies have made since ???? and it's been a disaster.

4 years into his 7 yr/$182 million deal, out with possibly career-ending lumbar degenerative disk disease. Has averaged
about 42 games, 178 PA's, -0.4 bWAR per season.
hypobole - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#465762) #
During yesterday's Popkins discussion, uglyone posted stats that seemed to show the Jays only slightly better than preseason projections.

Ben Clemons at FG just so happened to do the same thing yesterday, with a blend of ZIPS and Steamer. Jays were at .331 wOBA vs .322 projected, 008 better (due to rounding). Doesn't seem that big. But looking at his chart a few things stand out.

Only the Tigers at .009 have exceeded expectations more than the Jays. And only 8 teams total have exceeded expectations. Clemons points out the reason - the league as a whole has underperformed expectations by .007.

Put in that context, the Jays overperformance is a bit more dramatic than it seems at first glance.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-underperforming-and-overachieving-offenses-of-2025/
Magpie - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#465763) #
Concussions are a strange thing

Aaron Hill. A fairly innocent looking collision with David Eckstein, 29 May 2008. Missed the rest of the season.
Mike Green - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#465765) #
Funny that you should mention that, Maggie. For many years after, I would tell that story to my clients with concussions (now called mild traumatic brain injury, by the way). I would also mention Hill's fine career after that as an optimistic footnote.

I was watching that afternoon game in Oakland, and the collision remains etched on my brain
uglyone - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#465766) #
Interesting article, Hypo, but i think his methodology is probably misleading:

"I came up with a quantitative test for how much teams have disappointed relative to preseason expectations. I took the actual playing time that each team has allocated so far. Then, I used preseason projections to come up with the offensive numbers we’d expect from each team given who has played and how good we projected them to be. I compared that to how good the team has actually been. The difference between those two numbers is the aggregate overachievement or underperformance that can’t be attributed to injury."


If i'm understanding this correctly, i.e. he's using current individual playing time to then project out what the preseason pronjections should have been, then the way he is obtaining that Projected Team wOBA ends up deflating the preseason projection just because a team like the jays has done a good job by not playing the underperformers and playing the overperformers more.

I think that's what he's doing, at least. And i think it's probably the wrong way to go about it.
uglyone - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#465768) #
So for example, before the season, Wagner and Roden were projected to be near fulltime players and producing at 118 and 112 wrc+ levels. They busted, and Barger and Lukes have stolen their playing time. Barger and Lukes are producing around the levels Wagner and Roden were projected at, ut because they were projected a bit lower than that (iirc both at 108), then the Jays get calculated as overachieving even more, even though Wagner and Roden busted much worse than Barger and Lukes have overachieved.
Michael - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#465779) #
The methodology you'd expect would undersell improvement because it would increase performance due to survior's bias (for players near the edge those that under perform get cut, those that over perform get more playing time, so when you normalize by playing time you'd expect to see lower expected than actual performance).

But the reverse is what he's seeing league wide, actual lower than expected.
uglyone - Friday, August 08 2025 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#465780) #
True, that did come to mind.

On the other hand, that could simply be a league wide hitting environment effect, because he's not using a league adjusted statistic.
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