Do we know who is going down to make room for Yeasavage?

Not yet, but I'd expect it to be Borucki.

Pretty depressing quote by IKF on Bo. Paraphrasong slightly: "hopefully we're playing long enough where he can try to make a comeback late in the postseason."

Can't help but wonder if the Jays are trying to convince someone on the staff that they are actually hurt enough for the IL to create a space. The 40 man isn't as hard - can just release Tate as he really isn't in the picture going forward.

I hate it, but have to agree Borucki is the most likely to be sent down (he can refuse and become a free agent, but it'd be in his best interest not to as the Jays could call him back should an injury happen, especially if it is a LH pitcher who goes down).

Hilarious that this is the series that scares me the most of any in September.

The Jays are a very good team that's very hot and has everything to play for.

The Rays are a very mediocre team that's very cold. Even worse for them is that just 10 days ago they were making a run and had real playoffs hopes, before falling flat on their faces to take them right out of any race, and should be a completely heartbroken and unmotivated bunch right now.

There's no reason at all that we shouldn't dominate this series.

Except for the TB Curse, of course.

I haven’t really found Borucki to be effective. Why would you hate it, John?

I thought to myself that Borucki is surely done for on the 28-man roster when Schneider let him pitch an entire second inning to close out the ninth after the Jays went up 11-2.

Schneider rarely ever even lets his multiple inning guys close it out in blowouts, let alone a LOOGY guy like Borucki.

Seemed like Ryan was getting the Casey Lawrence treatment.

Maybe the Yesavage promotion is a bit related to the severity of the Bo injury. Get more elite (if inexperienced) talent on the roster, however you can, to try to win in the postseason, in Bo’s absence.

Probably he would have been called up in any event, but the need for some additional game-changing talent, plus some good news to offset the impending bad Bo news, may be a factor in this development.

The biggest issue is the Jays need a spot on the 40 for Yesavage; you can't just send Borucki down, you have to DFA him.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they're going to do, though; they got 2 innings out of him last night, so thanks for your service.

So I hear a bunch of commentators always callling the American League "weak" this year, but I've noticed that the AL is +26 vs the NL this year (358-332, .519), and if we just look at the current playoffs teams against each other, the AL playoffs teams are -2 (56-58, .491), 1 game off dead even.

Then if we look at something like fangraphs' projected remaining WAR, we get the all 12 playoffs teams in the top-13 (only non playoffs team to sneak into the #12 spot is ATL), and the rankings alternate NL/AL pretty much all the way down:

1. LAD 13gms, 4.2war, .323/gm
2. NYY 13gms, 4.0war, .308/gm

3. SEA 12gms, 3.6war, .300/gm
3. NYM 12gms, 3.6war, .300/gm

5. TOR 13gms, 3.8war, .292/gm
6. PHI 12gms, 3.4war, .283/gm

7. SDP 12gms, 3.3war, .275/gm
8. HOU 12gms, 3.2war, .267/gm

9. CHC 13gms, 3.4war, .262/gm
10. BOS 12gms, 3.0war, .250/gm

10. MIL 12gms, 3.0war, .250/gm
13. DET 12gms, 2.7war, .225/gm

(12. ATL 13gms, 3.2war, .246/gm)



Anyone have any explanation as to why "weak AL" seems to be a consensus opinion this year?

They wouldn't be calling the AL weak if the Yankees were in first place.

I think there are much better candidates to DFA than Borucki, whose numbers against lefties this year are fantastic.

I'm pretty sure they could just move Bloss to the 60 day DL to make room. Or DFA any of Tate/Lucas/Bruihl/Schultz/Estrada.


They could also send down Loperfido instead of another pitcher. Or just send down Nance.

yep, Magpie.

It's probably mostly because the Jays are in 1st, tbh.

Agreed - its because Toronto and Seattle are in 1st place rather than some combination of NYY, Red Sox and Astros.

They can't send down Loperfido due to hitter/pitcher limitations. Nor do I think that's the best course.

It's pretty clear they should send down Borucki and, if he becomes a FA that's the cost of the transaction. More likely, I think he accepts the assignment since he's still on the bubble of a playoff roster and I don't see him landing a guaranteed spot on another team's playoff roster, and you DFA Tate.

It would seem to be clearly in Borucki's best interest to go to Buffalo and remain in outside contention for the playoffs in an organization he has history with than pitch a handful of meaningless innings for the Athletics prior to free agency.

Isn’t it more about none of the teams being on track to win 95+?

I guess it could be that, but I don't know that the NL comes out looking any better there either.


Win Paces

1. MIL 98
2. PHI 96
3. TOR 95
4. CHC 92
5. DET 92
6. LAD 91
7. NYY 90
8. BOS 89
9. SDP 89
10. SEA 89
11. HOU 88
(12. TEX 85)
(13. CLE 85)
14. NYM 83

Borucki DFA'd

I'd been convinced by uglyone here that a Bloss call up and 60 day stint would make more sense, but I guess they valued him not accruing more ML service time?

Fare thee well, Ryan.

I hate seeing potentially useful pieces dumped. Borucki has been very effective this year and throughout his career iirc vs LH hitters. Plus he seems happy to be here which is a plus (hey, I like guys who like Toronto). So I'm hoping the Jays do retain him in AAA as a 'just in case' guy. Designated for assignment leaves that option open, it all depends on both his willingness to go to AAA (as a vet he has the option to refuse) and no one in the majors grabbing him off the Jays as he moves from the 40 man to the Buffalo roster. I see him mostly as an insurance policy if Little gets hurt, but not a critical one. Much like how IKF was insurance in the event of an infielder getting hurt (as Bo has). You need guys in that role just in case.

Borucki was right move. He had some great numbers against lefties but also a 6.75/4.05 KK/BB ratio so doesn't seem sustainable. If Jays need another lefty, Fluharty would be fine.

I'd been convinced by uglyone here that a Bloss call up and 60 day stint would make more sense, but I guess they valued him not accruing more ML service time

They could've called Bloss up and put him on the 60-day IL to open a 40-man spot for Trey at the expense of two weeks MLB min salary & service time, but they would've still had to free up a 28-man roster spot tonight as well. They have very few optionable arms, so to keep Borucki they would've likely had to send Fisher down again for the rest of the year as well. Which would've made da Box and other Jays spaces riot.

Fisher has been destroying LHHs all year - they've hit .145 against him for a .224 wOBA. For context, both Little and Fluharty have been hit harder by LHHs - they hit .202 against Little for a .279 wOBA and .203 against Fluharty for a .288 wOBA. Fisher has been their best reliever against LHHs all year.

any way that borucki can still stick around and be used after the DFA?

Pretty much a no-brainer, I would have thought. I always liked Borucki, but I have to recognize that over the last five years, he's been an effective major league pitcher for roughly three months in 2023 and that's about it. Maybe he clears waivers, maybe he goes to Buffalo, maybe he signs a minor league deal over the winter. Maybe he doesn't.

Surprised at the ongoing radio silence around Bo. Seems rather ominous.

My understanding is that putting Bloss on the 60-day IL would cost the team over $500k. The call-up would need to be back-dated to May 4th (as he last pitched May 3rd for Buffalo), and Bloss would then receive his retroactive MLB salary + per diems, as well as service time credit, for ~147 days. Players on the 40-man roster earn roughly $120k per year while in AAA; The MLB minimum salary is $760k, plus higher per diems and benefit costs. So the decision is likely more of a financial issue than a service time issue.

Arden Zwelling
@ArdenZwelling
Ryan Borucki — who was DFA’ed by the Blue jays today — told the club his preference is to remain with the organization, per manager John Schneider

Good chance he clears waivers and reports to triple-A Buffalo

Shi Davidi
@ShiDavidi

Bo Bichette is in Dallas right now getting a second opinion on his sprained left knee, said Blue Jays manager John Schneider.

"That'll help, kind of formulate a timeline for him going forward," he said, adding that injury is to PCL and appointment is a "natural follow up."

I thought it was pretty interesting that the first 4 games after Bo's injury had Clement at SS, but then the last 3 against the Orioles had Gimenez at SS. I don't think they play Gimenez at SS if they think Bo is anywhere close to coming back. Clement is a plus fielding SS so he easily could have filled in at short for Bo. I suspect Bichette is probably out the rest of the season, and the Jays are just praying for a best case scenario. Hopefully I'm wrong on that and he's back by the playoffs.

IKF's quote and now the news of Bichette getting a second opinion is not painting an optimistic picture...

Arden Zwelling @ArdenZwelling Bo Bichette (sprained left PCL) is currently getting a second opinion with a specialist in Dallas — Dr. Dan Cooper. Blue Jays are hopeful that will help formulate a timeline for Bichette going forward. Bichette will meet up with the Blue Jays in Tampa in the coming days.

Reading a bit about isolated PCL sprains/tears, it sounds like everything hinges on whether it's a partial (Grade I/II) vs complete tear (Grade III).

Good news is that incomplete sprains/tears generally have athletes returning to play in 2-4 weeks.

Total tears require surgery & early surgery is preferred for better outcomes (within 2 weeks of the acute event).

Grade III tears can also be managed without surgery , but return to play is generally 3-4 months and wouldn't help Bo anyway.

Let's home it's still intact.

https://www.physio-pedia.com/Posterior_Cruciate_Ligament_Injury#Medical_management

I'm actually happy they are going with Gimenez at SS most games. I feel like I have a pretty good idea on what Clement can do defensively as he's played a fair bit of SS the last few years but Gimenez is a wildcard and hasn't played SS since 2022. It's a good time to find out how good he's going to be there as it may change future plans (and be best formation defensively this year).

I know the conventional “manly” thing to do was send Bo home on that play, but I cringed as soon as Lukes singled, anticipating a send because the team “needed” that run. Star player on the team with 20th percentile speed. Yeah, it might have worked out but sometimes you need to exercise some strategic prudence and think about possible consequences beyond the immediate play at hand. There is no law of baseball that requires you to send your player in that situation. You can make a higher IQ decision as a coach.

I don't know that a 3rd base coach would ever be thinking about injuries when deciding when to send someone. It's not an especially dangerous play.

and you would hope that any injury to Bo would end up with much more Barger at 3B and Schneider at 2B, not more Gimenez and falefa.

Did you criticize the decision at the time before finding out about the injury? I ask simply because if it was such a big deal sending Bo home on the play then why wasn't it discussed at the time or in previous plays when similar players were sent home like Springer or Vladdy? Likely because it's only the wrong decision for you when it doesn't work out but always the right move when nothing bad happens. Selective critiquing and rose coloured glasses.

If every baseball play decision was based on how much an athlete makes or how fit a player is then the sport is done. "You're a superstar so...don't worry about winning this game because there's more we have to try and win tomorrow and we don't want to take a chance you may get injured now but we will take the same chance at a later date if we play a more important game ...?" Said no good baseball player or manager ever.

Bo probably does more damage to his legs trying to field at SS over an entire season than he does running 90 feet hard. Complaining about this because he is injured strikes me as trying to find someone to blame for an injury without accepting it is part of the game. It was not obvious that Bo shouldn't have been sent and if it ever was then he shouldn't have been playing or if he was it should be understood it was a better alternative to not having him in the line up. Athletes have said plenty of times they don't "throttle down," or play at 90%. Especially Bo. It's why players do rehab before rejoining the show.

You all at once questioned the "need" to win a game, the "manliness," of making a baseball play and the IQ of the 3B coach for sending a runner home. Pass the butter because you're on a roll!

What percentage of the time does someone get seriously hurt on a close play at the plate? 1/1000? 1/10,000? Not sending someone home in an important and close game is like saying "don't bunt because you can break your finger" or don't "dive for a ball in the OF because you can get hurt". Might as well just not play.

lots and lots of swinging strikes. on all 3 of his pitches too.

put up a lot of easy 96s that inning. that'll play.

He just needs to tighten his command.

don't love admitting it but a couple of nice looking plays by Gimenez that inning at SS to be fair. not sure Bo makes either one.

Yesavage looked pretty good in the first inning. Power stuff with an effective change/split. He maintained his composure with some traffic (including Chandler Simpson) on base in his first major-league inning, which can't be easy to do.

5th consecutive start for Schneider. And adds another hit.

is he finally, finally getting his overly earned starting shot?

Yesavage has very impressive stuff. Pair that with an unusual delivery, he's just very hard to hit.

another day in Tampa, another game our hitters look like AAAers.

this CF camera angle is pretty great. guess that's a benefit of playing in a minor league park.

oooohhhh he looked real good vs the top of the order the 2nd time through.

strikes out the side on 10 pitches. wowza.

game 1 starter?

yankees trailing.

It was an immaculate inning, if not for a missed strike call. I'm in awe.

Jays are hitting like they can’t wait to get back on the field and see Yesavage pitch again.

Yesavage pitching like a pro. 5 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 2 BB, 9 K

And an efficient pitch count (68) in his first MLB start through 5IP.

I love the way he’s changing speeds and locations, while mostly living on and around the edges.

9 Ks is a jays debut record.

That was a hell of a lot of fun! What a fabulous debut. So impressive.

Did he really need to pull him at 69 pitches and just past the only guys who hit him all might. Boo.

Great debut and you know who else has thrown 5IP with 2BB and 9K so far tonight? Yep, you guessed it: SWR, against the Yankees. 2-0 Twins so far.

Incredible debut for Yesavage.

Otherwise, the Jays are being the Jays whenever they face the Rays. I'd probably be happy if they avoided being swept in this series given the history here.

Jays were shut out twice in April, twice in May, and one final time on June 13.

The offense has sucked so far tonight but it’s only 1-0. Still time to tie the game or take the lead, even if there is a distinctly “Trop” vibe in this one.

I really hope Yesavage doesn't get the L for this. Why are the Rays kryptonite for this team?

"...and one final time on June 13."

you are all very welcome.

https://x.com/PitchingNinja/status/1967761160146653549

​ok Gimmy can shortstop

Gimenez is looking like an elite SS. Not surprising but still fantastic.

Great D from both Barger and Gimenez B8.

Unbelievable defense from Barger and Gimenez

yanks down 3-0 in the 8th

Now 3-0 Twins over Yankees, still batting with a runner on second and none out

ah you're right the bottom of the 7th was still going. minny has the bases jacked with one out with our boy Martin coming to the plate.

...and martin clears the bases!

now 6-0 for minny over the yanks in the bottom of the 7th.

Bases-clearing double for Austin Martin, 6-0 Twins. SWR and Martin doing the Blue Jays a big favour tonight!

Seems like Boone is overusing his top relievers.

oh ernie that throw had him. gotta glove that. dammit.

Doval can't stop the bleeding. Yanks down 7-0.

man Springer Vladdy and now Kirk have looked just terrible at the plate. Why does Tampa do this to them.

Having Bo in the lineup may have helped everyone else chill out and have better PAs. Some of the hitters may be pressing a bit, trying to do too much to compensate for Bo’s absence.

Playing for 1 run on the road and it didn't go well.

please please please please fisher please

nails.

Bullpen has been good tonight.

two liners stung but for nothing. unfortunate.

oh thank god.

who do we have closing this? nance?

Springer is unbelievable. Well done George!

Huge George! Two balls were sting, with no luck. Glad that one landed!

Yariel. Nance is not in the inner circle of trust. He’s another concentric circle or two further out.

Yariel coming in.....gulp

it;s yariel.


Rays only 3 good hitters up in the bottom half.

Fisher still on the mound

Top of the order, though.

Nope -- A deke!  Fisher remains in the game....

good call! hopefully it works.

Blue Jays in a jam here

This has been a great ballgame whatever happens here. Fisher an out away from sealing the win.

Huge win!!!

gon' Fishin' !!!


(p.a. if it was up to me, I'd say we have a new closer now)

What a closeout by Fisher!!!!!  Nails!

man i hate playing in this city.

Amazing

3 Ks of the top of the order with Chandler Simpson on third base. Outstanding performance by Fisher.

but like serious - Yesavage is in the playoffs rotation right.

YANKEES LOSE!  THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YANKEES LOSE!

Fisher, 7-0.

yankees lose.

The Jays defence is better with Gimenez at short. The question is will whoever hits instead of Bo do enough to not make Bo's absence a negative overall.

What a performance by Fisher there. Can’t believe they demoted him but what’s done is done. Give him high leverage the rest of the way. Great pitching performance all the way around.

This team just finds ways to win. Great outing by Fisher but entire staff threw 11 innings with 18Ks, 4 BB, and 4 hits so every pitcher was at least good. Yesavage looked fantastic. If he keeps this up over next start or two, impossible to keep off playoff rotation. I think Gimenez got to 2-3 balls Bo wouldn't have at SS but boy do Jays miss Bo's bat. The magic number to win the East is now 7 with 12 games to go. Very much in the driver's seat.

Might need to play Springer to open the DH.
Barger has looked good at 3B.

Fangraphs updated odds of winning the AL East:

Blue Jays 97.1%
Yankees 2.5%
Red Sox 0.4%

Massive win for Toronto tonight.

Feeling quite confident in the division now. The Yankees loss last night and today and the Jays finally beating Tampa has really swayed the odds.

Trey Yesavage WOW.

How many SPs would a team typically use in the best-of-five divisional series? Three? How about Gausman, Bieber, Yesavage? Scherzer and Bassitt are very competent, but Yesavage might already be better than them. Still have a couple of weeks/starts to make an informed decision.

Who would have thought one game two weeks before the playoffs would throw the playoff SP rotation and potential closer into flux -- and both in a good way.

I'm starting to think about which teams in the AL are the most dangerous playoff teams in the AL. The team that looked the toughest to me is the Yankees. They have two top starters and their hitting is top of the league. Stanton looks like he might be for real.

I think their defense looks shaky and I'm not sure what they're doing at shortstop. But all the same -- probly the team you least want to face besides the Jays.

yeah gotta be yanks #1.

but the mariners are pretty scary too.

Yankees worry me the least. Pitch around Judge and you're done.

My biggest concern would be a best of 5 series against the Tigers where you have to face Skubal twice.

Second concern in order is Seattle with their very good pitching and guys like Arozarena and Raleigh both "Jays killers."

By biggest concern in the playoffs is Vladdy. Will he show up and deliver in pivotal games in October?

I shall have to dig into the weeds to find out... but about 50 pitchers have made their MLB debuts with a start for the Blue Jays. What Yesavage did tonight was definitely one of the ten best performances, possibly top five. Will report!

Yanks for me too. Their weakness is fielding but their lineup is scary and they have some very good pitchers.

First ones that pop to mind... Jerry Garvin, Jesse Litsch, Gustavo Chacin, Luis Leal, Juan Guzman... Memory may be fuzzy...Tom Filer,

Phil Huffman had a really good debut, then went something like 4-17 as a 21 year old. l think Brett Cecil also had a good debut start. Brandon Lyon? I shouldn't work my memory this hard at this time of night.

Lyon went about 7 innings with one run, so I think he's up there. I was at that game.

Greenfrog, they'd need four (or three and a bullpen game) or else someone is starting on short rest.

The Mariners “good pitching” is largely a function of the hitting backdrop in Seattle (look at their H v R splits). It’s actually their hitting which is excellent when you understand what their hitters have to deal with half the time. Julio Rodriguez is a legitimate MVP candidate when he’s on the road. Between that and the travel, I’d pass on the M’s if possible.

If Canzone and Rivas continue being bigtime upgrades at 2B and RF then Seattle's offense looks pretty ridiculous.

The broadcast flashed a table of rookie debut K records. It makes some sense with the rise in K rates, but I was still surprised that the entire table was essentially modern pitchers from after the aughts.

Anthony Kay and Trent Thornton held the previous SP debut rookie record with 8 (Paxton Schultz also tied it this year with a debut relief appearance).

Alek Manoah & Scrabble were next on the list with 7.

TBH, almost of all of these debuts are actually 2010s or later. And Scrabble just barely represents the aughts with a '09 debut.

Amazing debut for Yesavage. Will be interesting to see how they handle the rotation the rest of the season. Personally I’d be inclined to put Yesavage on a fairly regular schedule of throwing 50-60 pitches per appearance out of the pen, but I suspect most think that’s too conservative. And it’s also what I thought they should have done with Lauer when he got bumped to the pen, but instead they’ve…. not sure what they’ve done. Forgotten he exists?

Monday September 15: Toronto wins, New York loses.

Magic numbers for the Jays to finish ahead of the other top AL teams:

DET 9
NYY 7
BOS 6
SEA 6
HOU 6

12 games remaining for all but Houston, who have 11.

Thanks, Katie. There are a number of potential four-man rotations the team could use in the best-of-five series (if the team makes it that far).

Here's one: Gausman, Yesavage, Scherzer, Bassitt (if necessary), Gausman (if necessary)

Using Yesavage as the second starter would not necessarily mean elevating him to "#2 SP" status. There might actually be less pressure on him as game 2 starter, as the team wouldn't be at risk of losing the series if they lost that game.

All his whiffs: https://x.com/AveryChenier/status/1967787193147310158

No Beiber, greenfrog?

Bieber! How could I forget him?

Maybe Gausman, Bieber, Yesavage, Scherzer (if necessary), Gausman (if necessary)

Or, on my earlier logic, Gausman, Yesavage, Bieber, Scherzer (if necessary), Gausman (if necessary)

However you approach the choices, it’s looking like a good playoff rotation.

I’m can’t believe everyone is overlooking the August 8, 1989 debut of Mauro “Goose” Gozzo. 8 innings of shutout ball! I thought the next Cy Young had arrived, but alas he was just a shooting star blazing briefly through the cosmos.

Adam Ottavino watches the debut. Great in depth pitching analysis here.

https://youtu.be/71ZvfNsZD3E?si=Fw5XLSLR7GkK-mUj

The last few games have backed up my suspicion that Gimenez is the best (defensive) shortstop on the roster. And if you're not going to hit at all, shortstop is probably the least bad place to do it.

Lyon went about 7 innings with one run, so I think he's up there. I was at that game.

Me too! I thought I was watching the next Greg Maddux!

I'm pretty sure Mauro Gozzo's 8 innings of shutout in 1989 still stands atop the list as well. Updating the database as we speak!

Absorbing Gimenez’s contract only made sense if he was going to be Bichette’s replacement at SS. The fact that they put him at short the moment they seemingly suspected Bo would miss a lot of time seems to confirm that the plan for 2026 is set. Of course if Bichette can’t find a deal in free agency and is available on a short term deal with an opt out then that changes things, but in that scenario I hope the Jays don’t budge on Gimenez at SS. He’s really good there, and with his bat being suspect, he’s better off at SS from a team building standpoint as well.

For what it's worth, the ALDS is the more compact series this season, with games on Oct. 4, 5, 7, 8, and 10. (NLDS is Oct. 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 for comparison.)

Unfortunately gimenez' glove doesn't matter if he can't hit better than this.

Again, he's hitting at a level that's not really acceptable even for a bench player, let alone a starter.

Thumbs up for the Ottavino video, uglyone.

Yeah first time i watched one of his. It's great.

Just noticed he did a longer one on Gausman's maddux the other day i'll have to watch that as my pregame tonight.

Just wanted to add an "oooohhh yeah!" to the comments here on Macho Man Trey Yesavage's MLB debut.

Adam Ottavino watches the debut. Great in depth pitching analysis here.

That's well worth watching, thanks for the link, you Not-So-Handsome One.

I sort of get why people think of Lincecum, but Yesavage's high arm slot seems different somehow. Still, he's like Lincecum, and like Orel Hershiser, in that he gets his arm way up there by kind of leaning his whole upper body to the left.

Thanks for the link to the Ottavino video!

Really interesting watch and hearing his comments made me even for excited about Yesavage.

I'm hoping to check out some of his other videos soon, including Tong for comparison.

Adam Ottavino first inning review: "Yesavage uses the fastball as his strike pitch. He's going to need to find another one because that won't last too long."

Adam Ottavino second inning review: "Good gracious what a pitch this split is. I mean, nasty. The split is plus plus folks. I have to say, like, compared to Jonah Tong's splitter there is no comparison. This is the real deal split. This split is VERY impressive."

Other likeable quotes: "Junior has a lot of swag in the box right now, his body language says "I'm gonna rock your shit." Ehhh, takes a big hack, chases. And then he throws him the perfect slider. He definitely was like "damn that was nasty I'm not gonna lie."

"If he lands the splitter then the fastball's gonna play crazy up top. He just landed the splitter again. Good morning good afternoon and goodnight. Super domination."

"Outstanding. (Silence). Ridiculous. Ridiculous. He's headed for the immaculate inning. He loses it here and to tell you the truth he didn't even lose it. That was dotted. Are you freaking kidding me? He did better than an immaculate inning. This is a ten pitch immaculate inning. In your debut. The split is filth. The chase rate is going to be so freaking high."

" I can see him getting into command trouble. I can see people hitting his fastball in predictable counts but if he's pitching ahead? He's lethal."

"Outstanding debut."

Ottavino never seemed to me like a student of the game while he was active, but what would I know. Apparently he set up a pitching lab after the 2017 season to work on the craft. This is very cool stuff.

I did laugh at loud when he made a passing comment early on about Yesavage's move to first. Ottavino himself was notoriously one of the easiest guys to run on in the history of the game, so I was going.... what would he know?!

Plausible Best R/L lineups using 3yr Splits wRC+:


1. RF Springer 122 / RF Springer 101
2. 2B Bichette 116 / 2B Bichette 116
3. 1B Guerrero 139 / 1B Guerrero 156
4. DH Santander 116 / DH Santander 111
5. LF Schneider 109 / LF Schneider 109
6. 3B Barger 105 / 3B Clement 114
7. C Alejandro 103 / C Alejandro 102
8. CF Varsho 96 / CF Varsho 103
9. SS Gimenez 89 / SS Gimenez 75

B. UT Lukes 107 / UT Lukes 81
B. OF Straw 76 / OF Straw 79
B. IF Clement 90 / IF Barger 59
B. C Heineman 87 / C Heineman 195

X. UT France 98 / UT France 102
X. OF Loperfido 98 / OF Loperfido 75
X. IF Falefa 90 / IF Falefa 66
​X. C Pinto 113 / C Pinto 72

Not sure how Santander fits on the postseason roster if Bichette is relegated to DH if/when he returns. I guess the Blue Jays could deploy a Springer / Varsho / Santander outfield and leave Lukes, Schneider, Straw etc on the bench. It’s nice to have choices, anyway.

Hey Magpie, when you say he set up a pitching lab I remember he rented some office space in or around NYC and setup a throwing space. Is that the one? I remember reading about it at the time and thinking how unusual it was.

Gimenez has a .268 wOBA and .316 xwOBA. His 2nd straight bad offensive season is definitely concerning, but he's had some bad luck and injuries in 2025. If his wOBA was closer to his expected numbers then he'd be around league average offensively. A great defensive SS with a league average or close to it bat is an asset. A $20M a year 2B with that type of bat is way less desirable.

he rented some office space in or around NYC and setup a throwing space.

Sounds like it. Hey, I just got it off his Wikipedia page!

Phew. This is from the expert of experts so should be a good diagnosis and he should be back for playoffs.

Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Source: 2nd opinion on Bo Bichette’s left knee sprain has confirmed that the injury is (a) short-term and (b) expected to improve with rest and rehabilitation.

It’s still possible that Bichette returns in time for the postseason; he last played on Sept. 6.

uglyone - seems many don't see the value of defense here. Look at a Yankee game and you quickly see how ugly it gets when you play a poor defensive team. Fangraphs has Gimenez at SS hitting for a -33 wRC+ so far, but just -0.1 fWAR due to 1.3 runs of value on defense. So horrid, absolutely horrid offense which he can't keep doing based on past performance is almost completely covered by his WOW defense. Overall he is at +1.0 fWAR in 91 games despite his 69 wRC+, that is with most of his games at 2B where defense isn't as valuable as at SS.

I think a good question is how bad on offense can you be and still be a net positive. Ozzie Smith was the best SS I've seen on TV (sadly the NL teams never came to Toronto back then) - his worst season with the bat was his 2nd (1979) with a 47 wRC+ yet, with limited stats available for defense, he was +0.7 fWAR that year. I'd say that is the limit for it. The next year he had a 77 wRC+ and was worth 4.0 fWAR. Then in '87 he was cheated out of an MVP IMO with a 114 wRC+ and a 6.3 fWAR (they gave it to Andre Dawson for playing in Wrigley Field and having LOTS of RBI's for a last place team and for signing there with a blank contract telling the club to pick what they wanted to pay him as he wanted to go there so bad).

So IMO Gimenez can be acceptable at SS with a 70 wRC+ bat, but if he gets back to his last year in Cleveland (83 wRC+) then he would be a very solid SS or 2B (2-3 WAR range). Get back to 2022 (141 wRC+) and he is an MVP candidate (very unlikely).

"A $20M a year 2B with that type of bat is way less desirable."

This comment only strikes me as true when you have preset parameter based on payroll. It presumes you are working with a payroll limitation and values the player relative to other teams salary investments at the position. It does not in any way evaluate the desirability of this player based on winning or strengthening the overall team. If you remove money from the equation it's a silly assessment. An Aston Martin vehicle at 180k is not desirable...if you don't want to spend more than 100k on a vehicle. Big caveat that I don't think teams like the NYY or Blue Jays follow.

I'd rather have Gimenez playing 2B at 20 million/season with a payroll of 250 million versus paying another 2B almost (not as good) but making 10 million/season with a payroll of 100 million. Perspective matters and if someone wants to spend more for extra performance it shouldn't be summarized as "less desirable," unless value of money is more important than winning.

I wish someone would interview a player (preferably a pitcher) and ask if they want to pay someone like Gimenez 20 million/year to play 2B behind them or have someone else that costs less. If you believe all intangibles are captured by metrics and stats (which I do not), it'll still be short sighted to ignore gains in performance at the cost of decrease in money spend.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll find many world series winners with a 70wrc+ in the starting lineup.

*in money spend efficiency

This is a bit out of left field, but been thinking more about Bo Bichette comps: above avg bat, hits for avg, above avg power, middling OBP, passable defense at a premium position, due for a huge contract at a relatively young age. Only have to look back 2 decades in Blue Jays history find one - Vernon Wells.

Is the comp perfect? No, but a lot of similarities. Definitely not saying his next contract will end up like Vernon Wells and I sure hope not, but another hitter with similar profile being washed up by the time they're 32.

Watching at Gimenez play D at SS I really wouldn't be that upset if the Jays fade a 200M contract to Bo and see if Gimenez can return to being a league avg bat, that's a 4WAR player, which is the realistic upside of what Bo is going to be for the first half of his next contract.

Good news about Bo. The only question I have is whether this means he’s likely to return in the next few weeks, or whether it means he’s not likely to return but his agent wants everyone to know it’s not a long-term injury.

wells comp is interesting slithering.....but for me the major difference there is that Wells was always wildly inconsistent at the plate - the occasional big year between mostly average seasons.

Whereas Bo has been crazy consistent at the plate, always in the 120-130 very good range, with only last year's half year being an (huge) outlier so far.

dalimon, spending more money on a defensive player at a position of extreme importance (SS, CF, CA) is a lot more sensible than doing it for a position that is less important on the defensive spectrum. For instance, many of us (me included) didn't like Varsho in LF. As great as he was defensively there, it was a waste of his amazing defense at a much more important position, and the bat (at least in 2023-24) was less than ideal for a corner OF. Obviously his bat has taken a big step forward this season but the fact that he's in CF has allowed the team to try different players in less important positions (Lukes, Schneider, etc) and extract value that way. It's easier to find corner OF's than great defensive CF's. Gimenez as a ~90 wRC+ bat comes with more value as a great SS than as a great 2B, especially at his salary where payroll is not going to be unlimited. My guess is Clement is going to start at 2B next season if Bo leaves, but in the event that the Jays wanted to add someone from outside the org, it would be easier for them to find a competent 2B than a competent SS.

Where you run into payroll issues for the Jays is potentially having $70M+ a year locked up in Gimenez, Santander and Berrios for 2026-28... and then Gimenez and Santander for another year at $42M.

"I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll find many world series winners with a 70wrc+ in the starting lineup."

There are plenty although not recently I don't think. If you go back to 60s and earlier, it was common to have one or two guys who couldn't hit at all. Like 60 WRC+ guys sometimes. There are plenty of regulars in the 80 WRC+ range more recently. Anyway, it misses the point for me. Who is a better SS against RHP on the team if Bo is hurt? Gimenez has been awful against lefties (35 WRC+) and shouldn't be playing against them but he's been better than Clement against RHP and he has been unlucky with BABIP and dealt with a couple of major injuries so you'd expect him to get better. If Bo is healthy and can play SS, you can put Schneider at 2B in some matchups I guess but not all of them.

"Not sure how Santander fits on the postseason roster if Bichette is relegated to DH if/when he returns."

Lukes has been pretty bad for a while. 79 WRC+ in the second half playing mostly against RHP. He's still valuable but a healthy Santander would be a big improvement as a starter. But yeah, Santander and Springer both in OF isn't great but does much better IF D without Bo make up for the worse OF D? As you say, good to have options.

I completely agree with that SK.

Marc that money spent on 3 players (power bat, elite defensive infielder and durable 3rd slot rotation arm) is not a problem unless Toronto decides to cut payroll. It's 30 percent of the payroll assuming the payroll doesn't go up.

Bassitt, Bo, Green, Gausman and Springer will likely all be off the books by then which amounts to more than the 70 million. As always the big risk imho with this front office is not if they are overspending somewhere. They have shows the ability to spent large. The issue is can they develop regular players to replace departing free agents so that the saved money can be used to improve the team rather than having to go get more free agents as replacements. If you save 100 million on departing players but have to spend all of it to replace them then its a wash and you probably get worse. If you develop players and can spend half the money on replacement free agents and then the other half on free agents that improve the team (because developed players move up to replace the other departing free agents)... well you get the idea. I'm writing myself out.

UO, I don't know if there are many, but my first thought was the 2015 Royals and, lo and behold, Alcides Escobar was the starting shortstop with a 66 wRc+ (and a 67 OPS+), including starting throughout the playoffs. He also hit leadoff.

Alex Rios was also their primary right fielder and started all five games in the World Series with a 72 wRc+ (and a 73 OPS+).

(On a side note, I'll go to my grave believing the 2015 Jays were the better team, not that it matters.)

thanks for the examples guys.

on another note:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/which-teams-have-suffered-the-most-from-injuries/

Jays have had the 7th most impactful injury losses this year.

As much as I'd like Bichette to come back because hitters like him don't grow on trees, he'd be a better fit for this team at 2B moving forward. But, given the other SS options available this winter, he might get paid well enough to keep playing SS. Though I really only think Atlanta or Detroit are likely landing spots.

Including Bieber's option (though I'm sure he'll opt out or get a longer term deal), that'd be $202M not including arb and minimums which could be another $25M or so.

It's certainly enough money to sign Bichette and a starter, but not necessarily much more.

But hey, that's the winter's problem! Let's win the world series first.

Schneider gets his 6th start in a row today. He's only been ok in the first 5 (94wrc+), but hopefully they give him a legit run here.

Hope the Jays hitters can do better against Pepiot tonight than against Joe Boyle Yesterday. Pepiot on a bit of a roll. Last 3 starts - 15 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 6 BB, 15 K.

"Though I really only think Atlanta or Detroit are likely landing spots."


The Braves acquired Ha-Seong Kim off waivers recently. He has a $16M player option for 2026. Considering the season he's had, it's probably a safe bet that he'll pick up the option, so that would take the Braves out of the SS market. I think Bo's market is not going to be as big as people think.

Schneider gets his 6th start in a row today.

It's as if they're wondering - is he really this good? Or has he been this good because we've been picking his spots? Let's find out!

(On a side note, I'll go to my grave believing the 2015 Jays were the better team, not that it matters.)

The 2015 Jays were the best team in baseball by September/October, with the Price and Tulo additions and Stroman returning from injury. I have no doubt. But in the playoffs you're basically at the mercy of a random number generator.

I think the 2015 Jays were best team in baseball but I also think 2021 Jays were best team in baseball and they didn't even make the playoffs.

Since Trade Deadline:

Hitters: 5.78r/gm (#2), 7.4b% (#25), 18.6k% (#3), .311babip (#5), .280avg (#2), .340obp (#3), .192iso (#5), 125wrc+ (#3), 9.0def (#1), .27war/gm (#2)

​SP: 5.59ip/gm (#5), 22.4k% (#16), 7.0b% (#9), .262babip (#5), 87era- (#5), 97fip- (#12), 95xfip- (#10)
RP: 3.39ip/gm (#27), 24.2k% (#12), 12.8b% (#30), .282babip (#10), 101era- (#16), 99fip- (#15), 99xfip- (#14)



Players:

DH Springer (34): 125pa, .347babip, 205wrc+, 8.8war650
SS Bichette (27): 144pa, .407babip, 189wrc+, 8.1war650
1B Guerrero (26): 153pa, .324babip, 158wrc+, 5.5war650
CF Varsho (28): 133pa, .284babip, 146wrc+, 7.3war650
LF Schneider (26): 78pa, .325babip, 143wrc+, 5.8war650
C Alejandro (26): 124pa, .262babip, 118wrc+, 5.8war650
2B Clement (29): 142pa, .292babip, 110wrc+, 4.6war659
3B Barger (25): 138pa, .244babip, 80wrc+, 0.9war650
RF Lukes (30): 133pa, .295babip, 79wrc+, 0.5war650

UT France (30): 92pa, .353babip, 109wrc+, 2.8war650
OF Straw (31): 64pa, .400babip, 145wrc+, 8.1war650
IF Gimenez (26): 101pa, .216babip, 47wrc+, 0.0war650
C Heineman (34): 44pa, .226babip, 45wrc+, 1.5war650

UT Falefa (30): 20pa, .429babip, 104wrc+, 0.0war650
OF Loperfido (26): 40pa, .435babip, 85wrc+, 0.0war650
IF Kennedy (26): 6pa, .250babip, 107wrc+, 0.0war650
C Sanchez (28): 2pa, .500babip, 188wrc+, 0.0war650



RH Yesavage (21): 1gms, 5.0ip/gm, 45.0k%, 10.0b%, 44era-, 15fip-, 30xfip-, 8.0war32
RH Gausman (34): 8gms, 6.9ip/gm, 23.8k%, 3.9b%, 64era-, 75fip-, 80xfip-, 6.4war32
RH Bieber (30): 5gms, 5.8ip/gm, 26.5k%, 3.5b%, 91era-, 79fip-, 65xfip-, 3.8war32
RH Bassitt (37): 8gms, 5.4ip/gm, 23.2k%, 11.0b%, 72era-, 92fip-, 97xfip-, 3.2war32
RH Scherzer (40): 8gms, 5.5ip/gm, 19.6k%, 7.6b%, 95era-, 115fip-, 123xfip-, 2.2war32

RH Berrios (31): 6gms, 4.8ip/gm, 19.0k%, 6.3b%, 115era-, 112fip-, 97xfip-, -0.3war32
LH Lauer (30): 4gms, 4.7ip/gm, 18.0k%, 9.0b%, 130era-, 163fip-, 128xfip-, -0.5war32


RH Nance (34): 18gms, 1.0ip/gm, 23.0k%, 5.4b%, 36era-, 48fip-, 69xfip-, 1.3war65
LH Little (28): 21gms, 0.7ip/gm, 24.2k%, 16.7b%, 105era-, 80fip-, 99xfip-, 0.5war65
RH Fisher (24): 15gms, 0.9ip/gm, 37.5k%, 14.3b%, 83era-, 93fip-, 74xfip-, 0.2war65
LH Lauer (30): 2gms, 2.0ip/gm, 22.2k%, 5.6b%, 166era-, 43fip-, 81xfip-, 0.0war65
RH Rodriguez (28): 15gms, 1.0ip/gm, 18.2k%, 15.2b%, 123era-, 115fip-, 134xfip-, -0.2war65
RH Varland (27): 20gms, 1.0ip/gm, 27.4k%, 9.5b%, 148ea-, 94fip-, 73xfip-, -0.3war65
RH Dominguez (30): 17gms, 0.8ip/gm, 22.2k%, 15.9b%, 95era-, 104fip-, 118xfip-, -0.8war65
RH Hoffman (32): 19gms, 1.0ip/gm, 23.8k%, 13.8b%, 110era-, 157fip-, 119xfip-, -1.0war65

LH Borucki (31): 4gms, 1.1ip/gm, 26.3k%, 21.1b%, 0era-, 84fip-, 94xfip-, 1.6war65
LH Bruihl (27): 3gms, 1.4ip/gm, 27.8k%, 5.6b%, 102era-, 34fip-, 52xfip-, 1.1war65
LH Fluharty (23): 10gms, 0.8ip/gm, 13.9k%, 22.2b%, 138era-, 193fip-, 168xfip-, -2.3war65

I feel pretty sure the 1985 and 2015 teams were the best teams in baseball. I think the post trade deadline 1993 Jays were the best team in baseball but it is hard to argue that the Braves were not. I can’t get there on the 2021 team.

Geminez, Berrios and Santander getting paid for a few years doesn't hurt if they can fill enough positions with cheap players like Barger and Yeysavage.

The 2021 team dealt with some injury issues (Kirk, Springer, Gurriel Jr.). By the end of the season, they were mostly healthy. They put up big offensive numbers in the last series of the regular season, beating Baltimore 6-4, 10-1, and 12-4. The pitching could have been a bit better — I felt Robbie Ray was somewhat gassed by the end of the season — but I think the team could have made some real noise in the postseason. Unfortunately they fell a game short of making it there.

If Bieber and Yesavage are for real I'm pretty close to calling the Jays the best team in baseball again.

If you happen to have checked the franchise page on bb-ref today, you will notice that the team's all-time record stands at 3849-3850, which means a win tonight will get them back to .500 all time.

How long has it been? Since 20 May 1995.

To me, the 2025 Jays remind me more of the 1992 Jays. A perfectly capable team that has been blessed by the Baseball Gods to have more coin flips go their way than not, all the way to success. A Team of Destiny rather than the best team in baseball.

the coin flip team was that 2021 team imo - guys like Ray Matz Manoah Semien Espinal etc out of nowhere, and nobody had a bad season. Even with that, that team wasn't nearly as deep as this team.

This year's team is the top-5 payroll filled-with-proven-talent team, imo, with actual stats and projected stats to match. This team has had a whole bunch of coin flips go really really bad (Santander/Gimenez/Hoffman sucking, all sorts of injuries, etc) and are still elite.


I'll take this squad up and down against that one tbh.

omg we actually got two breaks GO OUR WAY in the first inning of a game in tampa and have an actual lead!

have the baseball gods changed their tune?

"with actual stats and projected stats to match. "

I agree with ugylone. This team is just realizing its actual potential (finally!) Who on this team is really playing above reasonable expectation besides Springer? No one in my books. For me they are all playing near their actual level rather than below like last year.

So all the crazy performances from the bottom of the roster were just expected? You had guys like Heineman, Barger, Schneider, Loperfido etc doing what they’ve done?

Not to mention Lauer, Fisher, Fluharty, Nance ....

Nice to see the Jays making Pepiot work. Is walking the 6-8 hitters bad?

I was just about to type that list Hodgie:)

Barger's hitting right where he was projected to.

Schneider's high but only 200pa.

Meanwhile a bunch of similarly projected guys like Roden, Wagner, Jimenez flopped massively.

Heineman and Loperfido are just small sample flukes barely 100pa of goodness before they fizzled. Loperfido was more like 50pa.

I’m confused. Are the Jays allowed to play with a lead in Tampa?

"Not to mention Lauer, Fisher, Fluharty, Nance ...."

not compared to Ray, Matz, Romano, Cimber, Payamps, Richards.....

Would be a real stretch to call the Jays the best team in baseball in 21. Best team in the AL sure. But there was two 106+ win teams in the same division who soundly had claim to best team in the regular season.

It is nice to get to their bullpen this early. I hope Berrios doesn’t give it right back as he’s been apt to do this year.

The Jays have scored more runs already today (4) than the previous 38 innings at bat here (3).

heh that's a funny stat.

Like that. You just can’t trust Berrios. I’ll be happy when he no longer starts for this team.

that's an out. Lukes had that all the way.

the umps don't know the rules.

That call makes no sense.

That was a ridiculous, contradictory ruling. Also looked like Lukes might have been able to catch that.

No love for the year of the collapse 2011?

Here's the official rule:

"In every case of spectator interference with a batted or thrown ball, the ball shall be declared dead and the baserunners can be placed where the umpire determines they would have been without the interference."

I guess that the replay official determined that without the interference, the ball would have still cleared the wall, and thus it's still a home run. But MLB owes us a better explanation...

That’s why MLB will never follow other sports and allow access to the replay officials/on the field discussion. The level of incompetence would be too embarrassing.

One wonders what was going on in NY. Is the replay office full of Yankee fans or something? Interference but not affecting the HR call? Seems very, very bizarre. Will be interesting to hear Schneider after the game.

Cracka - for it to be ruled interference they have to have determined that the ball was catchable (which it was).

"Like that. You just can’t trust Berrios. I’ll be happy when he no longer starts for this team."


With 3/68 left on his contract, he will be starting for this team for a while, unfortunately. I'm not sure how much longer he can get by. His stuff has fallen off every year and it's well below average now.

Well, that made no sense.

You had guys like Heineman, Barger, Schneider, Loperfido etc doing what they’ve done?

Heineman (.807 OPS) (no)
Barger (.775 OPS) (yes)
Schneider (.816 OPS) (yes)
Loperfido 90 ABs (SS too small)

So yes, the backup catcher is 100-200 OPS above projected. That's nice but not exactly season defining.

Here's the explanation from MLB, as e-mailed to Dan Shulman and read live on the broadcast:

"The replay official determined spectator inference occurred. However, the replay official could not definitively determine that the ball would not have left the field of play had spectator interference not occurred."

I need to go to Vegas with you guys:)

That explanation from MLB is just a repeat of what Lance Diaz said. It’s just as comical and inept the second time.

All of these goofy explanations from MLB are applicable where there is fan interference but not interfering with a player making a play on the ball. So, that explanation makes sense if they were trying to determine HR or not with no outfielder there. With a fielder making a play on the ball those explanations are just bs.

Lauer's gonna be a nice upgrade to the pen.

thank you barger for saving me embarassment.

also, the tigers were on their last out and tied it up with a dinger. into extras.

but cleveland comes right back and puts up a 3 spot in the top of the 10 and still no out....

Boston lost 2-1 to the A’s. Cleveland has pulled well ahead of Detroit in the 10th.

Boston’s WC berth is not secured yet.

Yanks were up 9-1 by the 3rd and 10-1 after the 4th.

But suddenly it's 10-7 with 1 out in the bottom of the 6th.

Looks like the Blue Jays bullpen is good again. Great to see.

10-8 yanks now, but the 6th is over. on to the 7th.

nice....tigers claw a couple back in the bottom of the 10th but it;'s not enough. tigers lose.

Brendan Little is, infuriating.

Does anyone want to see Little come in to pitch in a critical situation in October? I for one do not.

I can’t recall a reliever where walking the first batter is the expected outcome.

Seranthony gets a DP ball to end the inning. Love the way he got ahead 0-2 on the first batter he faced.

Seranthony is going to pitch the ninth as well. Interesting. This is the kind of move I advocated for a while back (Seranthony instead of Hoffman in a save situation). We’ll see if it works out.

I can’t recall a reliever where walking the first batter is the expected outcome.

How could you forget Mitch Williams? Brendon Little in a previous life.

Leadoff walk. Gaah.

True enough Magpie, besides the obvious WS I didn’t see a lot of the Phillies so it wasn’t nearly as fresh.

Hoffman doesn’t look sharp in the early going. He’s going to need some luck to get the save.

Hoffman ages me much more than Little does tbh.

Hoffman's stuff is down. He's bad when that happens.

Honestly.Schneider deserves the L on this... Hoffman looked toast last night and bringing him in here was just dumb.

lowe swings through 94 down the pipe. phew.

nice.

but dammit can we please get out of tampa already I hate it here so much.

Exhale

Hoffman rewards his manager’s faith and gets the job done. Honestly, not giving in to Caminero might have preserved the W for the Blue Jays.

Got screwed over by the umps and still won. Every win is huge. Magic number for AL East at 6 with 11 games to go.

quick 1st out for Bednar....but then Larnach crushes a homer to make it a one run game with 1 out.


on SN1.

Another win. Get them any way you can. Still six games up but now 11 games to go. Getting close to a formality at this point. Don’t take your foot off the gas though.

I don’t like that Hoffman’s stuff and velo is trending down and he’s still being used a lot (or warmed up and not used). Clinching the East early is probably necessary just so Schneider takes it easy on the reliever usage in the final week.

Hoffman's stuff looks gross. And not in a good way. Either fatigue or injury I think.

I don't know what they're going to do about that. I don't know if you can let him close in the playoffs.

That was dicey. I absolutely hate when a reliever walks the first batter in a 2 run game. I get nervous watching Little pitch, especially when he spikes the ball 3 feet in front of the plate.

Honestly.Schneider deserves the L on this... Hoffman looked toast last night and bringing him in here was just dumb.

What L?

There were really no good options. Letting Dominguez face the two LH Lowe boys - letting him face any LH batter with the game on the line - is a very, very bad idea. Varland and Fisher were surely not available. It was Hoffman or Heineman.

Little couldn't throw strikes or was afraid to use the cutter. Dominguez was good in the 8th but couldn't blow away the slap lead off hitter. Hoffman was plan B and he didn't have his best stuff.

The question is not would the ball have landed on the field but would the outfielder have had a play on it. It's not clear because there is no contact.

Playoffs bullpen:

CL Scherzer
SU Fisher
SU Lauer
MR Varland
MR Dominguez
MR Rodriguez
MR Nance
MR Bassitt
MR Berrios

Bo out for the remainder of the regular season, reported by Keegan. All the more important to finish first in the AL. Although a Bo-Willis Reed moment would be an awesome coda to this season.

Well, despite the doom and gloom the Jays are 7-2 now since Bo went down (not counting the game he went down in). Bo's last 9 games they were 5-4 during. So playing a no-hit all-field SS hasn't hurt the club at all. In fact by opening space up for Schneider & Loperfido it might have helped overall.

Thinking about all these gassed and banged up players in September…wonder if MLB will ever shorten the regular season. I think someone suggested a modest reduction to a 154-game season. Seems like a reasonable idea, in the current MLB environment of high-velocity, high-spin pitchers.

So playing a no-hit all-field SS hasn't hurt the club at all.

Maybe. It may also have helped to be playing the Orioles and the Rays instead of the Brewers and the Yankees.

My goodness did Hoffman look completely ordinary tonight. Send that man home for 2 weeks to rest.

Ugly that bullpen looks good but I would reinsert a rested Hoffman in place of Rodriguez or Nance.

Re: Berrios... I think he's in a similar situation as Hoffman, either over used or injured or dead arm. In both cases I don't believe they are permanent changes (Hoffman can't consistently throw 98 like at beginning of year and Berrios stuff all down).

Credit to the manager for getting more Schneider/Barger and less Falefa in the lineup in the wake of the Bo injury.

You have to think with this surplus in SP, there must be some thinking going on as to unconventional bullpen usage in the playoffs.

Can Hoffman get the Fisher treatment and 10 days off? He can’t be one of the Jays best 5 bullpen arms right now with that velocity / stuff and that’s just not going to work in the playoffs.

It’s going to hurt some egos but does Yesavage being able to start a playoff game potentially mean one of the big names can help close? Do you need to use last 5 days to get them acclimated to that? Does Fisher close?

I hope they don’t bury their heads in the sand on this one - this isn’t just an isolated bad day or easily fixable thing. At 93 Hoffmann’s stuff is not going to work in the playoffs as a closer.

Not wanting to be negative of course it’s just how they use thirds days and a potential WC rest to get people ready.

Credit to the manager for getting more Schneider/Barger and less Falefa in the lineup in the wake of the Bo injury.

I'm not even the biggest Davis Schneider stan, but it's still bizarre that John Schneider finally started him 6 games in a row but also can't PH & get him out of the game fast enough.

The outcome was great PH Joey Loperfido in the 5th? for Davis, but the process was absolutely bizarre. Why is he so anxious to yank Davis out for one of the best hitters on your bench with a starting nine that includes anemic Myles Straw, Andres Gimenez and Nathan Lukes? Also presumably with a short bench with Daulton Varsho unavailable for hamstring load management.

It’s going to hurt some egos but does Yesavage being able to start a playoff game potentially mean one of the big names can help close?

There aren't really any good candidates among the starters to pull a John Smoltz to become closer. The best theoretical choice is probably Gausman with his good velo, two pitch mix and lots of swing & miss. But he's also likely your Game 1 starter.

Of the 7 SP currently on the roster, Yesavage himself is probably the best closer candidate, making his debut in the rotation all the more puzzling given current roster composition & team needs.

Tuesday September 16: Toronto wins #6 in a row, Detroit and Boston lose.

Magic numbers for the Jays to finish ahead of the other top AL teams:

7 Detroit
6 New York
4 Boston
5 Seattle
5 Houston

11 games remaining for all but Houston, who have 10.

Zero chance Hoffman is left off post-season roster. Let's be serious here. Jays need to not warm him up every game and pitch him all the time for a couple of weeks. Let him pitch infrequently and get his fastball back up. It's happened before and I assume it will happen again.

The issue with bringing Yesavage up was that they went back to a 6 man rotation and now the bullpen is short-handed. Berrios and Bassit would be two guys that made most sense there and they are both still in rotation. Not many guys available tonight so Gausman is going to need to go deep.

I dunno. In some ways, that was one of the most impressive outings Hoffman has had as a Blue Jay. He didn't have his A plus heater - which is a problem for a whole lot of short relievers who only know how to overpower hitters. So instead he... pitched. He pitched pretty carefully, like a guy defusing a bomb, but that was the mission. Lowe got an RBI single on an 0-2 splitter that was way off the plate, a really fine bit of defensive hitting. He gave Caminero, the most dangerous guy in the lineup, nothing he could square up. Caminero drew the walk after four foul balls - it still beats challenging him and getting burned. And then he struck out two LH batters to save the game.

Itzhak Perlman, the great violinist, once broke a string in the midst of a performance, and finished up with just three. Asked about it afterwards, he said sometimes you have to work a little harder for your money.

Magpie those are good points but I looked at Hoffman basically throwing 94 MPH in the strike zone pitch after pitch and it seemed 50/50 it gets hammered and the Jays lose. You're right that he worked around Caminero but Lowe easily could have hammered an elevated 94MPH fastball...

"Zero chance Hoffman is left off post-season roster. Let's be serious here. Jays need to not warm him up every game and pitch him all the time for a couple of weeks. Let him pitch infrequently and get his fastball back up."

This sentiment has literally been suggested over and over again by greenfrog and sometimes myself since May. It's baffling how accurate it has become and I don't understand how they can get him back to being in tip top shape.

For what it is worth... I listen to baseball podcasts at night as it helps me fall asleep pretty quick with no bad effects.

I think Barker (from Blair and Barker) made it pretty clear yesterday (presumably after speaking with Pete Walker) that Fisher was sent down earlier in the year in order to work on some things and also to save him for later in the season so the Jays could run him hard at this time.

Who's BS meter is peaking right now and if it's true why don't they do the same with Hoffman?

I still remember how mediocre Berrios looked last year to end the season but how electric his stuff was in the playoffs suggesting perhaps he was holding back.

As was noted on the Sportsnet broadcast, the splitter to Lowe was off the plate outside but it was still poorly located. Ahead in the count to Lowe, Hoffman probably wanted to bury that splitter low and away.

I like that Hoffman gutted his way through the final outs of the game, but he did not look good out there and he got away with at least a couple of hittable pitches to good hitters.

Zero chance Hoffman is left off the off season roster

Isn’t there a middle ground between off the post season roster and guaranteed closer (TM)? He doesn’t even have a pedigree as a closer or a positive WAR this season. He’s had issues in previous years at playoff time too. I worry this is now a loyalty thing.

The 3 strings analogy would work except for the last couple of weeks (and various other times this season) he’s only had 3 strings every time out. He’s going into the performance knowing he has 3 strings and he’s missing the FB.

If he can come back after some rest and do leverage innings then that’s great but this feels like a movie that will not end well if we just run it back. Feels like time to look at other high leverage option in the 9th in preparation for the playoffs and give him a breather.

Granted there are not obvious simple options but there are candidates and a window to try them out…

Hoffman has the worst ERA and the worst FIP on the team, starters or reliever.

Also the only pitcher to have both a negative fwar and negative ra9war.

I mean there should at least be some questions being asked.

Jays need to not warm him up every game and pitch him all the time for a couple of weeks. Let him pitch infrequently and get his fastball back up.

A lot of fans were similarly apoplectic with Schneider when he let Hoffman sit for a week+ unused during the Coors Field blowout series after Hoffman returned from his sabbatical and couldn't buy a strike against the Dodgers, necessitating Mason Fluharty of all unlikely heroes to take down Shohei Ohtani & co. to save Jeff, John & the Jays' bacon.

I can't get mad at Schneider over nibbling critiques over Hoffman's usage. Abused or rested, Hoffman simply hasn't been that good as a lockdown closer despite the Jays position and his save totals.

I’m sure Schneider isn’t acting unilaterally here - and it’s obvious there was not a simple easy plan B.

But we are getting to the stage where trying something else can’t be much worse than this. The eye test and the stats show that. Too much rest / not enough rest whatever it is I don’t think it’s going to play. Teh HR numbers and FB velocity / whiff stats just don’t work for a playoff closer.

Breather may not work. Yesavage / Scherzer or whoever we try may not work. I can’t believe we are going to run out Hoffman in the highest leverage possible ALDS / LCS situations with his stuff where it is right now. Just feels like a hope and a prayer.

Perhaps it would help everyone if they specified which Jeff Hoffman they are referring to. When I advocate for having him on the roster I am referring to the "elite" Jeff Hoffman who carried the bullpen for a long time. You know, that guy who was locating his FB at 97-97 MPH and locating all of his pitchers, clearing out opposing line ups on 20 pitches or less to close out games.

I would even be okay with "good" Jeff Hoffman who had a harder time locating his FB and sometimes didn't have his secondary pitches but was still pumping 96 MPH.

I am not advocating for bad Jeff Hoffman who is the version with a FB under 95 MPH, little to no feel for his off speed pitches and inability to locate the FB anyway.

It's easy for all of us to argue when one poster is referring to elite Jeff Hoffman and another bad Jeff Hoffman. It's like arguing the character of Dr. Jekyll and Mr .Hyde and I don't mean Brandon.

When we talk of Hoffman needing rest it's clearly to try to get the Jekyll version back. When others talk of Hoffman being bad they are clearly referring to Mr. Hyde version. Of course there are some who will want to even out the numbers and paint the picture as one, which I don't think is fair to the pitcher.

When I first saw Hoffman in the spring, he looked fantastic, throwing strikes at 98 MPH and I thought," Finally, a closer who can blow hitters away!" Now he's down to 94, 95 and throwing more balls. I wish we had someone like Arnoldis Chapman, minus the abuse allegations, who at age 37 is hitting 101, 102 MPH.