Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

The inaugural Batter's Box POTD for December features back to back shots of a near catch at the wall.



Jays center fielder Vernon Wells leaps to snare a rocket off the bat of Twins DH Jason Kubel......

.....but he can't haul it in as Kubel winds up with a double during a September 7th game at the Rogers Centre.

Oh Wells! | 63 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Gerry - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 08:39 AM EST (#208959) #
Unfortunately a near catch at the wall was a common sight in 2009.  Anthopoulos told Bastian and other writers yesterday that there were no plans to move Wells out of centrefield.  This is disappointing and I hope it is just a sign that the Jays haven't found a replacement centrefielder yet.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 09:50 AM EST (#208961) #
I know.  Johnny Mac....I wonder what Mike Cameron will be signing for. 

Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:03 AM EST (#208962) #
It shocks me that Rich Harden was non-tendered.  The Cubs must truly be in desperate straits.  Harden is a good bet to give a club 150 very good innings, and because his 2009 ERA was nothing special, the arbitration risk is small. 
Magpie - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:18 AM EST (#208963) #
Harden is a good bet to give a club 150 very good innings

I wouldn't exactly say "good bet" - he's done that exactly once in his career. In 2004. He did come really close three years ago.

He's a good guy to roll the dice on...
Magpie - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:20 AM EST (#208964) #
Harden also made $7 million last year, and you can only cut him 20% in arbitration. Someone - maybe the Cubs - is going to make him sign for incentives, I would think.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:28 AM EST (#208965) #
All right, I overstate.  He threw 148 in 2008 and 141 in 2009 (giving up early because the Cubs were out of it).  At this point, Harden is probably equally valuable to Lackey.  If a team could get him on an incentive-laden deal, it looks to me to be a no-lose proposition.

If Halladay is traded, it sure would be nice to see Harden coming home.

jmoney - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 11:03 AM EST (#208966) #
Harden and Bedard would be nice guys to go after.
sweat - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 11:07 AM EST (#208967) #
It would probably be a mistake to throw vernon under the bus, unless we already have his replacement signed.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 11:16 AM EST (#208968) #
Wells ought not to be thrown under the bus.  There are worse fates than being told to play a corner outfield spot for a gazillion dollars.  One of Wells' supposed pluses when he signed was his excellent attitude.  The insistence on playing centerfield is not really evidence of that attitude. 
christaylor - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 12:41 PM EST (#208969) #
Maybe I'm misreading something here or missed an interview but I don't recall Wells ever insisting on playing CF. I doubt the team has even ever asked him to move to a corner. Sure he's made all the right noises about wanting to play CF but that's not really the same as insisting to play CF.

If Doc is not traded (his ST imposed deadline jumped the probability of him not being traded in my mind) and Harden/Bedard are signed. The 2010 could be a very interesting team. If Doc is traded and the team gets a piece or two that could help the team in 2010 and Harden and Bedard are signed this team could be very interesting.

High risk, high reward, relatively small salary cost for the talent. The move almost makes too much sense. Add signing Cameron and Wells to a corner... AA could catch lightning in a bottle. Would said team be in the Jays' budget though?
Chuck - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 01:43 PM EST (#208970) #
Has AA said out loud to anyone what the team's spending inclinations figure to be this off-season? I am envisioning them backfilling shortstop and catcher but doing little else as far as free agents are concerned.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 01:53 PM EST (#208971) #
AA has certainly suggested that it would be unlikely that the team will be competitive in 2010 (in the context of Halladay's decision to move on).  It would surprise me if the club added salary for 2010, but if Halladay's salary is off the books, it would makes sense to me to bring in someone like Harden at the right price.  For one thing, it might help put bums in seats.
Wildrose - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 02:00 PM EST (#208972) #
Would said team be in the Jays' budget though?

This team may be done spending according to the new boss.

After the recent signings of shortstops John McDonald and Alex Gonzalez, Anthopoulos said he doesn't see any more free-agent signings on the horizon.
  

This has been a consistent message from both Beeston and AA, that in terms of the development cycle , free agency is a low priority this off-season. I'd love to see Harden and Bedard, and Bay for that matter as Jays, but I just don't see it realistically happening.

If AA is true to his word the MLB Jay payroll may be in the high forties - low fifties  ( if Halladay and Overbay as rumored are moved , and you don't include B.J. Ryan who Rogers Media took a write down on in the last financial quarter ) . 
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 02:20 PM EST (#208973) #
If you are going to run out a team with a payroll in the high forties-low fifties, you do not want to pay John McDonald 1.5 million unless he is going to start and you are aiming for the first overall pick.  I was assuming that the club would be aiming to cut payroll to about $70 million, making the McDonald mistake seem less serious.
John Northey - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 02:45 PM EST (#208974) #
Hrm.  Checking Cot's Contracts I see for 2010 the Jays have (if Halladay and Overbay are traded)...
Signed... - $33.25 million
Wells: $16 mil
Encarnacion: $5 mil
Downs: $4 mil (contract year)
Hill: $4 mil
Gonzalez: $2.75 mil
McDonald: $1.5 mil

Arbitration... - $7.655 last year, go on a doubling
Bautista: $2.4 last year
Frasor: $1.45 last year
Tallet: $1.015 last year
Accardo: $900k last year
Camp: $750k last year
League: $640k last year
Chavez: $500k last year

First year arbitration... Under $1 mil each
McGowan, Janssen, Marcum

Rest are all under Jays control (ie: they set the salary)

So outside of the cheapies you've got about $33.25 + $15 + $3 = $51.25 million for 16 guys, 9 others at $500k each  = $55.75 million in 2010 ($65.75 factoring in good ol' Ryan).
John Northey - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 02:48 PM EST (#208975) #
Hrm, don't know where $16 came from for Wells - $12.5 in salary plus $8.5 bonus = $21 million which adds $5 million thus net is $60.75 million or $70.75 depending on how you count Ryan.
Wildrose - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 03:38 PM EST (#208976) #
Hrm, don't know where $16 came from for Wells - $12.5 in salary plus $8.5 bonus

I think Cotts likes to amortize all bonus payments over the entire length of a contract-I don't know if this is the teams business   practice as well. I do think your 2-3 million high on the arbitration awards , but this is a hard thing to determine.

Of interest to me is can this marketplace sustain multiple losing seasons in the 60-75 win range as this team appears  heading towards  (  although it may depend somewhat as to who they get back in trades) ?  Ricciardi was always constrained to some degree by TV and attendance numbers to put out a reasonably competitive team . I'm not sure Rogers is putting the current administration under the same restraints.

 
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 04:06 PM EST (#208977) #
Of interest to me is can this marketplace sustain multiple losing seasons in the 60-75 win range as this team appears  heading towards  (  although it may depend somewhat as to who they get back in trades) ?  Ricciardi was always constrained to some degree by TV and attendance numbers to put out a reasonably competitive team . I'm not sure Rogers is putting the current administration under the same restraints.

That sounds like the Orioles 2000-03.  They went from attendance of 3.4 million in 1999 (league average 2.3) to 2.5 in 2003 (league average 2.2)
lexomatic - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 04:27 PM EST (#208978) #
i do feel the switch from national, non-cable broadcasters like ctv and cbc has hurt the Jays in terms of fan-base, though it's been so long it probably doesn't matter so much. i stopped watching forever ago and only listen on the radio if i follow games live t all
Wildrose - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 04:32 PM EST (#208979) #
They went from attendance of 3.4 million in 1999 (league average 2.3) to 2.5 in 2003 (league average 2.2)

Perhaps, although the Jays circa 2006-2008  were  in the 2.3-2.4 million range-and fell to the 1.876 range in 2009  ( there is some evidence that the Godfrey years were inaccurate due to the counting of some free tickets),  this drop is not as precipitous as the Oriole situation.  The real question is-have they hit rock bottom?
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 04:49 PM EST (#208980) #
I wouldn't think so.  With the plethora of Yankee/Red Sox home dates and the size of the market, I'd guess that rock bottom attendance would be about 1.2 million.
John Northey - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 04:54 PM EST (#208981) #
Well, rock bottom for the Jays was hit in 1981 after 4 years of last place finishes and with the strike in the middle of the season - 14,247 per game or over a full season it would've been 1.15 million.  1982 was the last year of the last place finishes for that wave and the Jays had 1,275,978 people come out.  The worst since then (1.9 in 1983 then years of 2+ million including the 4 million+ years) was in 2002 at 1,637,900 or 20,221 per game.

This year the Jays had 1,876,129 show up (23,612 per game).  This is between the 2003 and 2004 seasons for total attendance.  If they go into a losing streak I suspect we'll see the average dip to the 20k per game level, perhaps a bit lower if it is extended or the team is just boring/ugly/etc.  (ie: you can be lovable losers like the 62 Mets or a hopeful young team ala the Jays of the early 80's but if you are old and losing and no entertaining players...)

So I'd say rock bottom would be 1.6 million with 1.5 being worst case.
brent - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 06:55 PM EST (#208983) #

http://twitter.com/MLBastian

McGowan has been shut down after shoulder pain. Litsch will be delayed too. Marcum is our only hope now.

perlhack - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 07:09 PM EST (#208984) #
Marcum is our only hope now.

No, there is another...

Alright, now that that's out of the way, Bastian's tweet actually said "Anthopoulos also said Dustin McGowan's status is still unclear. He was shut down in October after having soreness in his shoulder again." This doesn't imply he will be out indefinitely, though it's certainly not good news.
brent - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 07:44 PM EST (#208985) #
I meant of that group of 3 making it back for the start of the season.
timpinder - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 07:56 PM EST (#208986) #

I'm not at all surprised about McGowan.  As soon as he had the surgery I figured that if he had a successful return it would be as a reliever.  With TJ and rotator cuff surgeries, and a frayed labrum, the odds were definitely stacked against him.

Have the Jays hit rock bottom?  I think it depends on the type of fan.  The casual fan might be less inclined to watch a losing team, but those fans will return if the team starts winning and becomes trendy again.  I think that for hardcore fans the worst of times are over.  I'll enjoy watching the new draft picks and young kids play and develop over the next few years, even if the team's losing.  That's assuming Gonz-Donald is not what we can expect from AA in the future, once some new pieces have been added.

Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 09:05 PM EST (#208987) #
MLB.com reports that Seattle is interested in Hudson and Harden.  Perhaps Tango's conflict of interest rules do not extend as far as conflicts of the heart!

It looks to be a buyer's year.  It would be fun to be in a city with a club on the verge.

TJ Caino - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 09:08 PM EST (#208988) #
Given that they Jays are not planning to compete this year, I see no harm in letting V-Dubb try to restore some of his reputation as a CF. Maybe at some point AA can trade him to a team willing to assume a significant measure of his salary commitment.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 09:11 PM EST (#208989) #
Today's Bastian article suggests that the 2010 payroll will be "similar" to 2009's $80 million, according to AA.
John Northey - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 09:54 PM EST (#208990) #
To be similar they'd have to add a lot of salary after dumping Halladay and Overbay. With those two they'll be around last years level, without they have over $22 million to spend.

So, where does that money go? First base/outfield/DH (two guys needed), catcher, and more pitching I'd guess.
Matthew E - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:21 PM EST (#208991) #
I think the Jays are a long, long way from rock bottom.

That may sound like an optimistic statement. It's not.

brent - Wednesday, December 02 2009 @ 10:40 PM EST (#208992) #

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/odds-ends-mcleod-yankees-wagner.html

Here's some good news as Boston's scouting director is heading to San Diego.

Richard S.S. - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 08:22 AM EST (#208994) #
I appologize for the inappropriateness of this entry.  I was puttering about with my Jays' stats and discovered http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/toronto-blue-jays_05.html and http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT21pPs-y5fsTg aren't a big help.  Which Jay's a super two or close to it?  Thanks for the help.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 10:33 AM EST (#208998) #
Off the wire ...

 The Brewers signed P John Halama to a minor league contract, with an invitation to spring training.

Hooray! As has been said here on Da Box many times before, embrace your inner Halama!

Forkball - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 10:57 AM EST (#208999) #
Today's Bastian article suggests that the 2010 payroll will be "similar" to 2009's $80 million, according to AA.

My impression, reinforced with that article, is that there's no firm payroll number.  Rather, the Jays will acquire players as needed that fit into the long term picture, or are short term stop-gaps.  And whatever that number is is what it is (to an extent - I assume there's an absolute ceiling, but that AA isn't going to come close to reaching it).

So hypothetically, if Miguel Cabrera were available to the Jays in a trade, his salary wouldn't be an impediment to making a move even if it pushed payroll to $90 million if he were viewed as a long term solution.  But even if they could afford (for example) Mike Cameron, does it make sense when he's not going to be a 'core' player in 2012?  Not really.  That's just spending money to spend money which ultimately doesn't accomplish much of anything.

I didn't like two years for MacDonald (although ultimately that's small change in the big picture), but everything else I hear and see from AA is how I think the team should be directed.
Mike D - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 11:38 AM EST (#209000) #

Well, I purchased a flex pack, so rock bottom attendance will be, at the very least, 22.  I anticipate that others may join me this season.

And while I prefer watching a major league baseball game to caterwauling over attendance, I can offer this research from a few months ago:

Top Five Attendance Seasons of All Time (for teams with no playoffs or new ballpark within 15 years)

1. 2008 Blue Jays (2.400); 2. 2002 Angels (2.306 in World Series year); 3. 1991 Rangers (2.298); 4. 1980 Astros (2.278 in NL West championship year); 5. 1993 Rangers (2.245).

The market is fine.  Oh, and the next time you hear "it's just like the Expos, they'll definitely leave town"...

Expos Attendance (in millions)

1998 (0.915); 1999 (0.773); 2000 (0.926); 2001 (0.643); 2002 (0.812); 2003 (1.026); 2004 (0.750).

Gerry - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 11:57 AM EST (#209001) #

Quiz time, guess the speaker:

"It still comes down to scouting and player development and building a team with talented young players coming up from the farm system all the time."

Did you get it?

And the answer is ........

Jed Hoyer, new GM of the Padres.

Here is the full quote:

Hired as San Diego's general manager in October, Hoyer said he'll apply lessons learned in Boston, even if the Padres are far less wealthy than the Red Sox.  "One of the things Theo always preached was to be a small market team with big market resources," Hoyer said after Padres CEO Jeff Moorad hired him. "It still comes down to scouting and player development and building a team with talented young players coming up from the farm system all the time."

And....

Moorad said he sought a GM who can bring "more planning and more discipline" to scouting and player development.

They haven't said they will be hiring more scouts yet although the Padres farm system appears to be more loaded than the Jays.

 

Gerry - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 01:38 PM EST (#209003) #

From Anthopoulos, via Bastian:

Earlier this week, Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos was asked if there was any thought of shifting Wells out of center and into one of the corners. Anthopoulos said that is not something being considered now and it is not likely to be discussed in the near future.

"We don't have any plans of that at all. We consider him a mainstay in center field," Anthopoulos said. "If Vernon was older, it might be more of a concern. He's still a young guy and he also made some tremendous plays as well. There's time he didn't make great plays, but he also made a lot of tremendous plays. It's just to the point that we expect it, so if he doesn't come up with a ball or comes close, those are the ones that stick out like a sore thumb, because it's rare."

"We do some defensive analysis from a statistical standpoint, but those are certainly not fullproof at all," Anthopoulos said. "It's just one tool. We certainly use our eyes as well. Some of the things we look at are just jumps and guys getting ready between each pitch. Those are little things that can make all the difference in the world. It's not footspeed. It's not routes. It's not instincts. It might just be getting ready between each pitch. A split second one way or the other can really impact things."

Also kudos for Bastian for using UZR to point out Wells' declining defensive stats.

Speaking personally I used my eyes in 2009 and my eyes told me Wells missed a lot of balls at the wall.

nerobe - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 01:58 PM EST (#209004) #
There is a lot of talk about getting Austin Jackson in a Halladay deal with the yanks. Personally if taking him out of the deal gets both Montero and one of Joba and Hughes, why not ask for Brett Gardner instead.

The Yanks arent likely to view him as highly as Jackson despite the fact that due to his plus defense in CF he is likely more valuable. he should be able to produce a 350/390 line with plus defense and peak with better numbers at some point. He would be a viable leadoff hitter until we found a more productive option. He is the kind of cheap yet useful player we should look to steal from a team that doesn't need him as much.

Montero/Joba/Gardner... get it done. Montero is a SPECIAL hitter. Hill, Lind, Montero can be a middle of the order for years to come.

Gerry - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 02:09 PM EST (#209005) #

More from Bastian, this time referencing SI and Baseball America.

The Blue Jays farm system is ranked 28th by BA and they could have been 30th if not for the Scott Rolen trade.  This is not a big surprise and shows why AA sees the need to rebuild.

The biggest wish of the Jays is that Justin Jackson finds a good batting stroke and that JP Arencibia learns to be selective.  Those two players represent possibilities for positions where the Jays have no major league incumbents.

Mike Green - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 02:34 PM EST (#209007) #
SI has the Phillies with the 3rd best system in the game.  In my opinion, that is way off. I would be surprised if Sickels has them in the top 10.



Mike Green - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 02:43 PM EST (#209008) #
Wells has always played deep, and had trouble on balls in front of him.  The days of pulling back homers are gone, but he is still not bad going into the power alleys (he was once very good). 

I really think that the best way to maximize his value is to have him as a corner (and perhaps average there), and work on his hitting.  It seems to me more likely that a 30 year old would learn to be more patient at the plate than to cover more ground in centerfield.

John Northey - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 03:31 PM EST (#209009) #
I think a big question is positioning and how it was being done.  Was Wells starting off in the wrong position the last couple of years, and if so why.  Proper positioning can make a major difference - Cal Ripken was known for having a great plan on the field thus had amazing defensive stats despite not having the best range. 

Thus the Jays should probably invest in finding the best outfield positioning guys out there, put an ear bud in each outfielders ear so they hear him telling them where to go, and off to the races.  One or two feet to one side or the other could make the difference on a lot of plays.

Mike Green - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 03:59 PM EST (#209010) #
What I find puzzling about Wells was his deteriorating HR/fly rate.  Hit Tracker has his speed off bat and avg. true distance of his homers as being very, very good.  All of his homers were to left and left-centre, and none of them were cheap at all. 

For some players, pulling the ball works.  It does not seem to have worked for Wells. 

lexomatic - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 06:02 PM EST (#209011) #
so apparently is Scutaro accepts arbitration and winds up wiht the Jays theyll shift him to the outfield? I'd almost rather stick him at 3rd and put EE in left or something
TJ Caino - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 06:48 PM EST (#209012) #
I'm skeptical that moving Wells to RF would improve his bat.

Pardon me if this has been discussed before, but have any studies supported that notion?
brent - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 06:51 PM EST (#209013) #

Get over to Fangraphs and make your projections. Do it now!

http://www.fangraphs.com/fanprojections.aspx?teamid=14&type=0

Jim - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 08:15 PM EST (#209015) #
Montero + Pitcher + 3rd player is not happening.

If they could get Montero straight up that might be the best offer they get.  There is no way in the world they are getting Montero/Joba/+. 
Mike Green - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 08:23 PM EST (#209016) #
I don't know how you would study  the offensive effect in the long-term of moving to a less demanding defensive position.  You could do a cohort study, I guess.  Or you could compare actual performance with long-term projections from performance prior to the move.  Neither method would be great.

I do know that clubs have often moved players out of positions which test the limits of their defensive capacity for this reason.  I also know that if you are going to sign two shortstops for their glove alone on the theory that young pitchers need a good defensive core behind them, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have Vernon Wells in centerfield.

danjulien - Thursday, December 03 2009 @ 11:39 PM EST (#209019) #

Looks like we're getting some compensation picks:

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=301002


Now let's just hope they sign Bay instead of Holliday...

TamRa - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 12:40 AM EST (#209020) #
Actually I hope they don't sign either of them....

:D


lexomatic - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 01:29 AM EST (#209021) #
here's my offense projections

Name PA AB H 2B 3B HR R RBI BB SO HBP SB AVG OBP SLG OPS wOBA UZR WAR Edit
Aaron Hill 655 609 177 35 0 22 91 91 46 104 5 5 .291 .344 .456 .800 .350 3 3.9 Edit
Edwin Encarnacion 540 486 131 23 2 22 78 85 54 107 9 5 .270 .350 .461 .811 .355 -8 2.4 Edit
Marco Scutaro 621 559 151 24 1 7 75 46 62 67 4 5 .270 .343 .354 .698 .316 3 2.3 Edit
Adam Lind 686 638 185 42 3 27 89 93 48 108 5 5 .290 .342 .492 .834 .358 -3 2.0 Edit
Vernon Wells 671 624 168 42 3 22 75 92 47 75 2 15 .269 .319 .452 .771 .334 -13 1.5 Edit
Travis Snider 410 369 100 14 1 12 52 52 41 100 3 5 .271 .346 .412 .758 .335 -3 0.8 Edit
John McDonald 270 259 60 15 0 2 21 17 11 31 3 5 .232 .269 .313 .582 .260 3 -0.2 Edit
HippyGilmore - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 02:54 AM EST (#209022) #

Deadspin had a list of steroid exemptions doled out in 2009 and one of them really caught my attention.

Two players received exemptions to use performance-enhancing drugs because of hypertension, two for low levels of testosterone, one for narcolepsy, one for obsessive compulsive disorder and one for postconcussion syndrome.

No names named of course, but I immediately thought of Aaron Hill, who had both severe postconcussion syndrome and his best year power-wise by a mile. Not assuming, but it makes a lot of sense to me, and although you certainly can't blame the guy for his recovery from a scary injury, it kind of worries me a little in that if he is the guy, it kind of dampens long-term optimism about him a tiny bit because I assume he wouldn't get a permanent exemption. But this is all complete speculation, of course; he just seemed to me the most logical candidate when I read that piece.

http://deadspin.com/5418549/this-explains-those-missed-bunt-signs

MatO - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 11:12 AM EST (#209036) #
Montero's size and minor league numbers are eerily similar to Joe Mauer's and he was about 6 months younger than Mauer at the same level.  How's Montero's defensive rep?  Will his size dictate a move to 1st?  If he can stay at catcher then I agree that you might not do better than Halladay for Montero staight up.
Mike Green - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 11:25 AM EST (#209038) #
Sickels said this about Montero in September: "Season ended early due to injury... Outstanding bat, defense still questionable."  He sounds a lot more like Delgado than like Mauer. 

It's not ideal to be backed up at the right end of the defensive spectrum (Lind, Snider and Montero), but quality is obviously very important. 


Brent S - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 12:20 PM EST (#209042) #

If he can stay at catcher then I agree that you might not do better than Halladay for Montero staight up.

I agree with this as well. It was always my feeling that the Jays would eventually settle on either a package involving one quality A-grade prospect, or a package of riskier assets. Sabathia netting LaPorta, and Lee/Santana netting a package of riff-raff seems like the best comparison. In this context, the Bedard trade would be an aberration.

In terms of the Jays positioning themselves to get the best offer, I think it is wise to demand multiple quality prospects, only to eventually agree to a more reasonable package. If the Jays could "settle" for a deal centered around Montero/Hughes, then that would be great.

Mike Green - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 03:23 PM EST (#209053) #
What the Jays are proposing to trade is roughly $10 million (the difference between Halladay's 2010 salary and his projected value), and the two 2011 picks.  The focus has been almost exclusively on high payroll clubs, but I really do not see why this has been the case.  A mid-payroll club potentially on the verge of contention like the White Sox, the Rockies or the Brewers would derive plenty of value for Halladay.  Has there been an indication that Doc would not waive his NTC for these clubs?

Heck, if the Twins cannot re-sign Mauer, it would make sense for them to sign Halladay to try and win it all in 2010.

Mike Green - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 04:08 PM EST (#209055) #
The Brewers apparently aren't interested in Halladay because the Jays want a double A or triple A pitcher coming back.  If true, that doesn't make sense. 
Alex Obal - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 04:44 PM EST (#209056) #
Wow. Which team's stance is more confusing there? I'm not familiar enough with the Brewers' situation to know whether they should be hoarding pitchers in the high minors. If they want pitchers, why aren't the Jays offering them Zach Jackson/Dave Bush types - either as part of a Doc trade, or as something separate?

I'm having enough trouble trying to wrap my head around the comments from AA about Wells and defensive stats that Gerry posted yesterday.
Gerry - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 05:50 PM EST (#209059) #

I thunk I said this before but.....

The Jays have demonstrated an ability to develop pitchers and between Zach Stewart, Brad Mills, Bobby Ray, Chad Jenkins, etc they should have one or two guys to cover them for the next few years.   They are short talented position players so why not ask for two top quality position prospects, hopefully not at second base, first base or DH. 

By sticking to asking for pitchers you are limiting your trading partners in a market where you need to develop as many trading partners as you can. 

Alex Obal - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 05:56 PM EST (#209060) #
Not only are you limiting your partners, you're doing it because of your insistence on a type of player you already have a surplus of. The logic is completely wrong.

Of course, if you've identified a pitcher you think is the second coming of Greg Maddux, fine. Insist on him.
Jim - Friday, December 04 2009 @ 10:35 PM EST (#209065) #
Montero will not catch in the major leagues. Straight up he'd still be a better deal then what Philadelphia got for Lee. 
ayjackson - Saturday, December 05 2009 @ 07:55 AM EST (#209067) #

Speculation is that Montero will have to move from catcher, though I've read it's not a certainty.  He is only 20.  He may be blocked in NY by Texiera if he moves to 1B, so the Yankees might be tempted to deal him.  I'd be more concerned about getting Montero and another prospect(s) than Joba or Hughes.

Oh Wells! | 63 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.