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A good piece about spring training by the BP folks, provided as a reminder to the optimistic Blue Jay fans to be less sanguine about the results of March Madness.


Starting in 1994, when I was but 24-years-old, I had a six-year stretch of going to ST in Arizona (and a one-year sojourn to Florida to see the Yankees in 1996), and I carry many fond memories. The strongest comes from my first year, when I saw 10 games in 10 days. I had never seen more than two or three games in a row before, and it was a real treat—and a revealing trip for a number of reasons. For instance, my very first game, the Mariners vs. the Brewers in Peoria, I sat next to Roger Angell, he of New Yorker fame, among others. It was then that I realized “Hey, you can make money watching baseball games!” It was that experience which turned me on to writing about baseball, which led to a subsequent, even more banal moment that led me to writing fiction. Needless to say, I hate Roger Angell.

But baseball is what I went for, and baseball is what I saw. And lots of it. For those of you who don’t have season tickets and don’t see a lot of games in person, let me tell you this: these guys are good, and that ability does not always translate on TV. So good, in fact, that after 10 days I lost all concept of a what a “routine” play was; they made them all look so easy. So good, in fact, I could scarcely tell the difference between Barry Bonds and Warren Newson; they were both so effortless.

One of the arguments stat-heads hate is, “You don’t know how good Player XYZ is, because you don’t see him play every day.” While that argument can be somewhat specious, there is some truth to it. In football and basketball, and perhaps hockey, the difference between the stars and the rank-and-file is obvious, statistically and to the naked eye. Terrell Owens is dynamite, while third and fourth receivers like Cedric Wilson are an obvious step or 14 behind. In baseball, while it’s clear in the stats who’s better, it’s not at all as clear in person. When you see them play every day, the difference between Miguel Tejada and, say, Chris Woodward is negligible. I saw Mark McGwire hit two 500-foot bombs against Chuck Finley. David McCarty, yes THE David McCarty, hit one 496 feet.

With pitchers it’s more cut-and-dry—can anyone compare to Randy Johnson?—but the difference between, say, Cliff Politte and Mariano Rivera is not so apparent. Of course, that’s the argument for “eliminating” the closer position. It’s just three more outs. It’s also why hard-throwing pitchers, guys like Blake Stein and Jaret Wright, will always get another chance, no matter how bad their numbers look, no matter how gruesome their injury history is. When they’re on and blowing people away, it’s a thing to behold.

Baseball is a beautiful game. It’s easy to forget that in the sea of statistics found on BP and Baseball Primer and other places. I may be down on the value of spring training in terms of won-loss records and stolen bases, but, if you have the time and money, get yourself to Florida to check out the Jays. You won’t be disappointed. Just don’t have any epiphanies about being a writer. That is a sure path to disappointment.
Is March the cruellest month? Maybe ... | 21 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Jordan - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 09:18 PM EST (#94657) #
John, great post. I have to say, I'd be more than happy to climb into the way-back machine and trade places with you next to Roger Angell for a game ... that is just incredibly cool. I can see where the writing-for-a-living thing would be a downer attachment to that experience -- I suspect the only way to make money from this gig is to edit other people's writing for a living, and even then it's tight -- but nine innings with Angell, or with pre-cranky Thomas Boswell, would be gold.

I've never managed to get to Florida during spring training. I have a trip to the Sunshine State lined up this year for March 29 - April 6, which will probably rule out any Jays spring training games. But I'm hoping I can make my way over to Dunedin or Clearwater to catch some of the high A-Ball prospects later in the trip. And since I'll be staying close to Vero Beach, I'll try to get down to Dodgertown too. But one of these days, I'm going to block out a week in March, fly down and fasten myself to a first-base seat in Dunedin. Being in dire need of a tropical vacation right now just makes the waiting worse.

Your observation on the raw talent of all the players is interesting. I remember going to my first Jays game in person -- being an east coast lad, I didn't make it to Toronto till well after they moved out the Ex. We had seats down the third-base line at Skydome, and I was watching Kelly Gruber fielding hot-corner shots. I was just amazed at his athleticism -- he'd snare a smash right off the turf and fire a laser over to first. And you know, major-league first base is a lot farther away from third than you'd ever think watching it on TV. I came away with great respect for guys who can even reach first base, let alone nail the first baseman's glove in less than two seconds. It's easy to yell at a player for getting those throws wrong -- I do it all the time -- but the amazing thing is that they get it right so often.

So yeah, I can see how the pure talent differential is impossible to detect by the naked eye -- and how, for the same reason, scouting is the ultimate inexact science. At that level of competition, it really is a split-second more on your bat speed and that little extra rise on the fastball that matters. Contrast that, as you say, with other sports. The first time I saw Stephane Richer play for the Canadiens in person, I thought I was seeing Mario Lemieux v. 2.0. Big, powerful guy, looked like a man among boys, instant acceleration to cut a swathe through the defence. But nothing ever came of it. I have no idea how you separate the wheat from the chaff at the professional level, or the wheat from the incredibly good wheat. Those stakes are too rich for my blood.
Dave Till - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 09:31 PM EST (#94658) #
For me, the best part of spring training is the "spring" part. Anything related to spring sounds good right now. (True story: I was in an elevator today with two women who were positively overjoyed because tomorrow's forecasted high is 0 degrees C.) Any temperature that doesn't have a dash in front of it seems implausibly balmy. Blue Jays baseball in Dunedin, like reports from smug Vancouverites about flowers blooming in Stanley Park, is one of the first indicators that winter might, conceivably, not last forever.

I wonder whether there will still be snow on the ground when the Jays open their season in Toronto?

As for spring training: I've actually been to Dunedin, in 1991. What I remember best of those eight days:

- The Jays lost every single spring game while I was there. They went on to have an OK season (at least, the non-Candiotti part of it was OK).

- Spending the better part of the day in the bright sunshine is an insomnia cure, as the heat and humidity take it out of you.
_Jurgen Maas - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 09:45 PM EST (#94659) #
JMG:

A healthy Pedro Martinez not only compares to but eclipses Randy Johnson.

Anyone else feel priviledged that we're alive for the peak years of quite possibly both the best hitter and best pitcher all time?
_Jonny German - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 10:37 PM EST (#94660) #
Yup, there definitely is some incredible talent in our generation.

Not to plug for the bad guy, but I think Pedro has to put up a few more good years before he passes Roger. As for how these two rate next to the legendary pitchers of yesteryear... I'm not in a research mood.

And not to be a cynic, but Barry bothers me and the key words are what you said, "peak years". Have a look at his career trajectory, it's completely unnatural. I accept that drugs are a big part of the modern game, but that doesn't mean I like it, and I especially don't like it rubbed in my face so blatantly.
_Sean - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 11:09 PM EST (#94661) #
Two brief opinions here. One, it is demonstrably true that Pedro Martinez has had the best 4-year peak of any startingn pitcher in the history of the game. I'm too sick to cite numbers, so I'll ask one of my co-authors or readers to do so for me.

Two, talking about Bonds and drugs is a whole can of worms I'd rather not discuss. There are several principled reasons not to discount his historic performance. I especially disagree with the sentiment that Bonds' supposed drug use is blatant.

I am much more unhappy about the shoddy reporting on McGwire's falsehoods about not using legal supplements than Bonds' career arc.
_Jurgen Maas - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 11:10 PM EST (#94662) #
Sure, Pedro needs more years to be a viable contender in the best career ever contest, but Aaron's done the research and concludes that Pedro's best is better than anybody elses' ever: "I truly believe that Pedro Martinez's 1999 and 2000 seasons are the best back-to-back seasons ever by a Major League pitcher and I also think that his 2000 season is the greatest of all-time."

Only Baseball Matters actually addressed the Bonds question today, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but his argument isn't the craziest you'll hear these days. (I'll refrain from political comments....) I don't understand the animosity Bonds inspires in fans, even back when he was merely the best human ballplayer in the NL.
_Jurgen Maas - Thursday, March 06 2003 @ 11:31 PM EST (#94663) #
Jonny:

Besides, Randy Johnson's career trajectory is just as unnatural as Bonds', but nobody accuses him of anything untoward.

These guys are freaks.
Gitz - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 12:18 AM EST (#94664) #
The point that nobody compares to Johnson was meant as a purely physical thing. Nobody quite looks like Randy out there.

As for Bonds, this is the best piece of writing I've read about him.

I share the belief that Bonds is too intelligent to do steroids. You can say what you like about him, but him being an idiot is not one of them.

On the other hand, it's a shame we can't appreciate Bonds for how great he is. But having grown up in the Bay Area, I can vouch for nearly every bit of malfeasance said about him: he really is this unpleasant.
Gitz - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 12:22 AM EST (#94665) #
Here's that link to the Bonds article. Forgive the HTML idiocy displayed by yours truly.
_jason - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 12:43 AM EST (#94666) #
I wonder if older guys like Bonds and Johnson aren't indicative of something larger happening in our society as a whole. Thanks to modern medicine, technology, and nutrition people are living longer and healthier lives. That said, I think we might see more "freaks" in the coming years and we'll have yet another context to put modern baseball statistics in. ie. "Yeah, but in those days players were only able to play into their mid 30's."
_Jurgen Maas - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 12:44 AM EST (#94667) #
Gitz:

Any details about Bonds' evil ways would be appreciated. Everything I've read sounds like the hurt feelings of self-important journalists like the twisted "Back off!" comments after last year's WS.
Gitz - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 01:01 AM EST (#94668) #
Go to a Giants game, Jurgen. He's surly to everybody: fans, media, etc. Halberstam has it right: Have some fun, Barry. I have some inside dope from a friend of mine who knows and has played with Bonds, but I'm not going to go in that direction.

Personally I've seen Bonds blow off young kids who didn't want an autograph, a baseball, or even an ounce of his saliva. All they said was "Nice game, Barry." Nothing. Not a nod, not a "thank you," not a doff of the cap. Nothing. During the regular season, I can forgive this, relatively. But this was at spring training, when nearly 99 percent of major leaguers are accessible and friendly. Frank Thomas stayed in the parking lot for hours until he finished signing all his autographs. Even Ken Griffey was highly accessible to the players. Not Bonds. Look, these guys can't pay attention to every Joe Lunchblockhead who wants an autograph, but for the love of Ford these were 10-year-old kids innocently praising the greatest player of his generation. Is it so hard, when you're in the Arizona sun, getting ready to go home for the day and have sex with beautiful women (presumably), to smile at a young child as you're leaving the park? Maybe I'm being idealistic. Maybe not.

I'm not a frustrated, self-important journalist. I'm an average fan. So are my friends in SF, and they hate him, too. I've seen it, Jurgen. He's an ass.
Mike D - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 01:16 AM EST (#94669) #
I agree with Gitz, as usual. Halberstam's piece is an important one in evaluating the Barry phenomenon. I'm attaching a few excerpts for a piece I did for my friend's political blog www.HauserReport.com back in November. This is in response to an article titled "The Reason You Don't Like Barry Bonds Is A Lie":

...I think Barry gets an unfair shake from the media. Too often, players are ripped in the media for how they deal with the media; exactly why is anyone outside the bizarre world of sports journalism supposed to care about this? Ted Williams was treated in much the same way as Bonds was: unjustified extrapolation regarding "character" based on his prickly relationship with reporters. Remember, he took three prime years off to be a war hero and still got screwed by the media. We can only hope that Barry will one day be venerated, making the Splendid Splinter's transition from misunderstood superstar to lovable old legend.

I continue to disagree, however, with the defense of Bonds' personality by those in love with his stats...Without question, there are Barry-haters out there motivated by racism, envy and stilted media accounts. But I'm not. I don't like how he admires every home run and treats it like an unjustified bother to have to then circle the bases. (You know the pained look I'm talking about.) I don't like his body armor. I don't like how he tried to bare-hand that one-hopper in left in Game 6. I don't like his idea of humour, i.e., telling ex-wife jokes and complaining about alimony. That isn't media spin; he won a home run derby and told the stadium that he needed to win to pay off his next alimony check. First words out of his mouth! Not the only ex-wife joke I've heard from him, I might add.

David Halberstam added his voice to the Barry-bashers during the World Series, but unlike most of the vengeful reporters, he was persuasive. In two ESPN.com pieces, he wrote that America will never embrace Bonds because of his joylessness (his basis of comparison was Sammy Sosa.) I agree with Halberstam's subsequent argument that there's something self-aggrandizing about Bonds' joylessness -- it seems like a judge has sentenced him to play, and dominate, the game of baseball. And he lets us all know it out on the field.

In fairness...he loves all-star games and barnstorming, and obviously cares for his family very deeply. I respect him as a person, not just as a ballplayer. But I don't have to like him. I don't have to like Barry Bonds because he's African-American, and I don't have to like Barry Bonds because he's the best hitter I've ever seen. Suggestions about hypocrisy -- i.e., why did everyone love Mark McGwire even though he's a jerk? -- should serve to make us more wary about deifying sluggers and more critical about the fawning praise we are spoon-fed regarding many stars, not to make us worship ballplayers regardless of arrogance because their stats are so mind-boggling.

The Baseball Prospectus spin -- "Love Barry Bonds, you idiots! LOVE HIM!!!" -- doesn't wash. Barry doesn't give me enough reasons to love him, and Barry doesn't care about that enough to change. I think that it's entirely his prerogative to devote all of his attention to his craft and none to improving his demeanor. I also think that it's my prerogative to root against him. To Barry's credit, his season and post-season succeeded in removing any and all questions about his greatness that pertained to anything other than personality. I think that was the only thing important to him, and one can't help but respect that. But the reasons why I don't like Barry Bonds are not lies.
Mike D - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 01:21 AM EST (#94670) #
As a postscript, Jurgen, Bob Klapisch wrote a letter to explain himself after BP went ballistic for what they perceived to be his mendacity during the "Back Off" incident: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20021115mailbag.shtml
_Mike - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 11:13 AM EST (#94671) #
The Halberstam article was more about him than Bonds. I'd take Barry Bonds (surly as he is) over 10 self-important David Halberstams any day of the week.
_Jurgen Maas - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 11:59 AM EST (#94672) #
I'd still rather spend the day with Bonds than Steven Seagal.
Mike D - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 01:01 PM EST (#94673) #
I'd rather be trapped in a back of a cab between Bonds and Jeff-Kent-on-a-bad-day than spend the day with Steven Seagal. And nine out of ten mobsters would agree!
_jason - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 02:21 PM EST (#94674) #
An interesting add-on to my previous comments in this thread for anyone who's interested. (Which doesn't seem to be any of you.)
_Jurgen Maas - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 09:12 PM EST (#94675) #
Jason:

I think you made a good point, I just didn't have a follow-up comment.
_jason - Friday, March 07 2003 @ 09:16 PM EST (#94676) #
I was being more sarcastic, in my last thread, than bitter.
_Dave - Monday, March 10 2003 @ 12:44 PM EST (#94677) #
Well off the Bonds thread and back to John's original post about not being able to separate players at the elite level of the game.

I met this guy Damien through a mutual friend of ours. He had defected from Cuba at some point and was going to get a look from a couple of major league clubs. He ended up playing for a couple of years in the Northern League but not catching on at a level above that.

I saw him take 200, maybe 300 hits in a batting cage and field maybe 500 balls from another machine. This was part of one day's routine.

Last year he played softball with a group of us Scoresheet owners in Stoney Creek. A friend and I organize a BBQ get-together each year for Scoresheet owners in the area.

Anyway I remember seeing Damien hit a couple of balls and this guy absolutely flew around the bases.

I'm no judge of baseball talent, like John said above though it is pretty hard to judge differences in elite players. I'm not claiming Damien was good enough to make a major league team. I'm just astonished watching the guy play up close that if he didn't make it as a utility guy, how good are the 700 or so guys at the major league level, and how many guys are there that are just off the edge of that level that never get a chance to compete.

I've had decent tickets at the SkyDome but never actually saw someone up close like this. It was awesome.

Back over to Barry griping ...
Is March the cruellest month? Maybe ... | 21 comments | Create New Account
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