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Phil Nevin, one of the names involved in this year's Trading Deadline From Hell, appeared in yesterday's game and went 0-for-4 as Texas managed just one run against Chacin, Schoeneweis and Speier.

I mentioned Nevin to get on the subject of the trading deadline. It was, of course, yesterday, and in honour of this yearly occasion, I present to you a transcript of a Pinch-Hit Trading Deadline Roundtable Featuring Famous People Who Aren't Really Part Of The Roundtable (PHTDRFFPWARPOTR) from everybody's favourite Sicilian Cheer Clubber, Jobu. As with most things he does, this was done in the middle of the night, so be prepared for...well...this:

Up now for seven days and wired
The concept of sleep is way too tired
And I've dialed in a plan to reinstate
Your sense of humour has expired

Hey kids, did you see that game yesterday? Well I didn’t. I was at work building IKEA! furniture (I know... my life is an oxymoron). If you’re looking for a recap of Gustavo’s great performance and Jay victory, a much better one than I could provide is found here thanks to Jordan Bastian of

The following people did hit homeruns yesterday though:

Reed Johnson
Two Molinas!

What a great day.

So if you’re still reading, you must figure I’m getting to something and you’re right. Since I didn’t see the game, that night I gathered up two friends of different baseball enthusiasms in the Xanadu of my buddy Rick’s basement to hold a roundtable about this year’s obviously boring trade deadline action.

First to introduce the players at the Batter's Box Memorial Democratic Roundtable:

There’s me. Jobu.
Otherwise known as Joe Buscemi when I go out in public. Benevolent caretaker of the Cheer Club and all around good guy. I’ll represent the super-fan.

Next we have my loser friend and sometimes Bauxite Rick.
He’s a representative of the above average Blue Jay fan. He’s single and enjoys long walks on the beach.

From the casual fan group, we have my free wheeling friend, Mr. Matthew Fava.
Also joining us at the roundtable, though unavailable to make it in person we were lucky enough to get the following personalities: local Fan590 curmudgeon Bob McCown...

from Rogers Sportsnet, local baseball superfreak Mr. Jamie Campbell...

the smarmiest man in the universe, Mr. Jim Rome...

and last but not least, new to TSN Mr. Chris Cuthbert.

(Elisha was unavailable.)

For legal purposes, let me state that any comments made by "famous people" are, of course, fake.

Joe: Before we begin with the trades or rather, lack thereof, why don’t we being by asking Matthew, the casual fan, his view of the Blue Jays this year and their strengths and weaknesses?

Matt: All right well...after last season, which was pretty depressing, which I often hear you and Rick...

Rick: ... Bemoan

Matt: ...obviously this season seems like an improvement, especially considering they were able to shed the contract of Carlos Delgado. Am I right?

Joe: See now, I would have guessed that most casual fans would have been upset just because the star player’s gone.

Matt: I don’t see...I dunno... He didn’t seem to help the seems like they made a major accomplishment with the players they have... they just need to work on consistency... I think some players have made strides...

Joe: Do you know any of them?

Matt: Well I think Hinske has been making strides lately hasnt he? On the upswing --

Joe: It’s more like: (makes hand gesture of stock chart falling and slightly spiking)

Rick: It’s amazing how none of this will pick up on camera at all.

Matt: As a casual fan overall I’d say it’s a very exciting season, not the most glorious but it’s entertaining so...once Halladay comes back...the hitting if it continues...they can turn some heads.

Jim: Excellent call............................rack him......................... that was great.................. Matt from SoCal.............. he came................ and he represents....................... rack him.

Bob: I think you’re all missing the fact that the Blue Jays stink, and they always will stink, and who cares about baseball when we can talk about Las Vegas high school sports?

Jamie: I'm driven to comment here if I may... the casual fan should be excited about this season, and they can catch the Jays and White Sox this weekend with me, Jamie Campbell, right here on Rogers Sportsnet.

Chris: RYAN SMYTH!!!

Jim: Rick in D-town.......................................... you’re up

Joe: Rick, your thoughts of the Jays at the deadline?

Rick: Well, the team is difficult to pick up anything for because other than backup catcher which is a glaring problem since Huckaby can’t hit anything--

Joe: He can hit you in the face.

Rick: Well he can do that, and he seems like a fun guy to have on the team, but he just can’t hit, period. First base I think is a huge problem right now because they don’t have a bat, let alone that big bat at first. Hinske’s a nice little stopgap, and good to trot out there but you can’t just--

Joe: So how would you get a first baseman though? Who's available?

Bob: It doesn’t matter who the Jays put out there because no one’s going to see them play. Unless the Jays get Albert Pujols, the team will fold in two years.

Jamie: Even though he’s not a first basemen, this talk makes me driven to comment on Jesse Barfield. I was driven to watch him play... at the Ex... outside the Ex... outside his home... I was driven to love that man.

Rick: Well that’s the thing, I have an attachment for every single guy on the team. I like every guy on the team. No one to just jettison. I’m looking at guys like Catalanotto and Reed platooning in LF and I’m thinking "I love that LF, 'cause those two guys are awesome." Joe: And really, you can’t get better than Reed Johnson.

Matt: What did Ricciardi say? Did they need another player?

Rick: They said they needed two bats and a starting pitcher, though I guess the prices were too high this year and no one moved.

Joe: Well what about Rios? Are we still waiting for the phantom power to add to his average?

Rick: Well that’s the thing. You want power from a corner outfielder, but you get power from your centrefielder so maybe we can wait. But from the sounds of things, Hudson’s probably on his way out.

Matt: Are you serious?!

Rick: I dunno. You can’t move Hinske as we saw. Hill and Adams need to play. Koskie’s at third. There’s just not space. It seems like JP is waiting for Hudson to get his Gold Glove officialy this year so he’ll have even more as a barganing chip.

Matt: Come on... he’s so great to watch though! He’s spectacular. And that wild pitch that won the game against the Angels, he was the first guy out of the dugout, I love that.

Jim: Dear Roundtable: Orlando Hudson is not a key part of this team....... signed, Cesar Izturis, Michael Young, Jeff Kent, and Felipe Lopez.......................... rack him................ I know baseball.

Joe: Let me just say now that I’m very glad they didn't trade for A.J. Burnett. As much as we need him and it’d be nice to have him, I don’t see the point in trading 3 or 4 quality players for a guy who might not be here in a few months. We have the money now to just buy him in the offseason and Florida was asking for a lot. If we were looking like playoff contenders then maybe you do that trade now, but we’re not. Even if we did make the playoffs--

Bob: Ho hum, just another win...

Joe: --AJ Burnett wouldn’t matter that much unless we came up with a big bat, too.

Jamie: I am driven to agree with Joe.


Joe: I’m just surprised they didn’t go for a backup catcher, even when they were shopping Johnny Mac around.

Matt: If they do get another catcher, I want him to assume the name of Huckaby, so I can say the name Huckaby. I am the casual fan after all.

Joe: Stop breaking the 4th wall!

Jim: Dear Joe: Relax, Matt didn’t break the 4th wall......... signed.............. Zack Morris.

Matt: Wait, so where is Pat Borders?

Rick: He’s in baseball limbo.

Matt: Jeez... that’s the woist place you can be.

Joe: It’s even worse than that Syracuse Wendy’s.

Rick, Matt, Chris: (laughter)

Joe: Matt, I’m not kidding. It’s the most depressing place I’ve ever been. That part of the city was just so rundown, and the Wendy’s itself was just so scummy looking. This place was just so trailer trash. One guy -- Rick will back me up -- he just had a haggard tank top shirt, a tattoo on one arm, and he didn’t have another arm...

Matt: (between laughter) Oh god...

Joe: And he had two dollar plastic sunglasses and a flowing mullett down to his back. It was like reverse Disneyland: The Worst Place on Earth.

Jim: Excellent rant............... rack him.................................. rack him...................... my man Joe ........... dissing Syracuse ...................... he dropped a bomb on Sy-Town.

Joe: Was this the least active trade deadline in sports history? Wasn’t last year's [editor's note, he means the 2003-2004 season] hockey this bad?

Matt: No, no... I think it was better... I mean Washington cleaned house right? The Leafs got Leetch.... should we just stay on hockey?

Chris: YES!!! Blue line zone defense matrix!! Ilkka Sinisalo!!!

Bob: Do you mind if I use the company air time for my personal stock update? Here’s Michael Vaughan of ROBTV. Michael, how’s my gold stock doing? Should I sell? Yes, you’re on the air, who cares about sports?

Matt: Just to say, like you look at any of these trades and they won’t be holding press confrences for these anytime soon.

Jamie: Speaking of press conferences, I am driven to show you the fossilized remains of a seagull killed by Dave Winfield. I keep it on me at all times.

Jim: Dude..... that is whack............. I don’t care if you’re a big shot commentator..... I don’t care if you’re one tv.......... I don’t care if you have a suit................. dude............. you can’t be rolling in here............... with a bird carcass............. it’s just not happening................ not even a bird carcass................ a SEAGULL carcass............ the Albert Belle of birds.............. Dear Jim, Seagulls aren’t so bad........... signed.............. Latrell Sprewell............ rack him.

Rick: Well, let’s start with the “biggest” trade I guess. Matt Lawton for Jody Gerut.

Joe: What? I thought they were on the same team already. That’s the biggest trade of the year?

Rick: Yeah.... that’s it..... it’s like nothing....... it’s like replacement city.....

Joe: If I put that trade into MVP 2004, it wouldn’t object. And it always object. That’s how generic that trade is.... this trade is as tasteless as the food at Syracuse Wendy's.

Rick: I don’t care.... like why did the Giants trade for Randy Winn? What’s the point?

Joe: Who’d they trade for?

Rick: Jesse Foppert, and Yorvit Torrealba who is a backup catcher. The Mariners have no catchers. Jesse Foppert used to be a decent prospect as I recall.

Matt: Now what did the Yankees do? Don’t they always make big moves?

Rick: No, they didn't do a damn thing. All they did was trade Buddy Groom. They sent him to...actually I didn’t even write it down. Who cares? It was Buddy Groom... that’s the only thing they did.

Joe: Well, they did sign any pitcher who used to be good in the last 10 years to their team.

Matt: Well, you’d think they’d make a move just to flash the green, so to speak

Rick: I think they’ve finally run out of money and the tax is hurting them.

Joe: How can the Yankees “run out of money”?

Rick: No... that’s what they said. They couldn’t pursue Beltran because they said they couldn’t afford it with the tax.

Joe: So you mean they’re approaching the mythical tax level of “significant to stop a club from spending”? I don’t buy it.... they make like a billion dollars a year. They must saving up so they can buy.... the league.... or something.

At this point the roundtable took a break to enjoy some delicious gormet sausages on Rick’s pool patio.

Joe: I think part of the lack of activity this year is the fact that so many teams are in contention, and the fact the Yankees honestly have no farm system. It used to be in the past that stuggling teams would send their about to leave old stud to the Yankees to wither and die, but the Yankees honestly have no one to offer back except maybe stadium tours.

Jamie: This reminds me of the tiring summer nights in Oakville playing third and short, trying to pay my way through Ryerson. I had no idea what direction my life would take. While working at CBC, I had the opportun- WHOA!- (Jamie catches David Ortiz homerun ball that flies into his window).

Matt: (reading Rick's notes) Farnsworth to the Braves for two minor leaguers?

Rick: What do I know about the Braves' minor league system? It wasn’t worth looking up...this is what all the trades are like this year.

Matt: Padres get Miguel Olivo for...Miguel Olivo? What?

Rick: That’s Miguel Ojeda...another minor leauger...who cares trade. I mean Olivo used to be a big prospect. He was part of the Freddy Garcia trade that everyone thought the Sox got hosed on because Olivo was supposed to be such a prospect. But he’s just totally fallen off the map and they just wanted to move him I guess.

Joe: Too many bad memories. When I look into your face Miguel, I see Freddie.

Rick: It’s gotta suck to be like be trying your whole life to make it big, to have all they hype...and then to just wind up in nowhere ville.

Joe: Mercy is for the weak, Rick. What’s that movie? “Mercy is for the WEAK!”.... Three Ninjas? No, that’s “Light up the eyes boys!”... oh KARATE KID!!! (Joe screams Karate Kid theme).

Joe: The white sox get Geoff Blum? Red Sox get Jose Cruz? Oh forget it. Let’s just talk about who wasn’t traded.

Rick: So Manny didn’t move.

Matt: Ugh... I hate that guy.... what an arrogant character who can’t field.

Joe: Let me just say that I’m very glad the Jays didn’t trade for him even though there was very little chance of that. If we get him for little players it’s because the Sox are dumping salary so we blow all our Rogers bonus just on him. If we get them to pay part of the contract we have to liquidate the farm system. It’s lose-lose. Im just glad it didn't happen.

Rick: Griffey didn’t go anywhere.

Joe: Griffey wouldn’t go anywhere except the Yankees anyways. He’s old, he explodes his legs from time to time, he lives in Cinci, why would he leave?

Matt: Why are they called the Reds anyways?

Joe: The team was renamed in 1991 to remember the fall of communisim.

Matt: What ballpark do they play in?

Joe: I dunno... Great American I think.

Matt: They should rename it “Red Square”. That would be cool.

Jamie: Yes, it would. I am driven to agree.

At this point the roundtable was interupted by jumbo scallops and lobster tails.

Joe: So what was up with Nevin rejecting the Orioles and going to the Rangers? Just one all-hit no-pitch team for another.

Bob: I don’t watch much baseball, but I watch enough to know that the Orioles system is the pinnicale of success. If the Jays would just take on more gigantic contracts of tired old hitters, they might finally prevent their future relocation.

Rick: I don’t know how his trade clause had the Orioles but not Rangers in, but this is just a pure Chan Ho for Anyone trade. Luckily the Padres were desperate to move Nevin, so it was a desperation trade more than anything.

Joe: I can see Chan Ho arriving in the Padres locker room going "Hey, you’re the number 2 starting pitcher, but on Texas, I was. Are you better than me?" "Well I don’t know you but... yes."

Jim: Joe from M-City droping the Simpsons reference.... rack him.......

Joe: That reminds me of the DVD commentary for that episode where they said "surprisingly all the ballplayers were really easy going and a pleasure to work with except for one... who let’s just say... name rhymed with 'Manseco'."

Rick: But with Tampa Bay... I was surprised.... how do you pronounce it? Baez? Baez wasnt moved. I thought he would be.

Matt: We could pronounce the words anyway we want and people wont know we mispronounce them because they’re just reading.

Rick: That’s true. Baez? Baez? BAEZ!? Baez.

Joe: Duchscherer, Duchscherer.... Favre? Favre.... .favre.......

Matt: Massachusetts. Massachusetts...Asphalt....Rapport? Rapport?

Joe: Foliage..... foliage?

Rick: I was surprised the biggest player to go to the AL East was Eric Byrnes.

Joe: What!? He’s in the east?? Now I have to see more of the Inept Henchman? I hate that guy almost as much as Bobby Holik!

Chris: IAFRATE!!

Rick: Yeah, he got traded to Colorado, and then Colorado traded him to the Orioles for Larry Bigbie. And he’s the only guy who went to the AL East.

Joe: Damn, I’m depressed now. Let’s just wrap this up. Closing thoughts?

Bob: Bite me.

Matt: The Jays are goin to the playoffs, gonna eat a lot of peaches.

Jim: The Jays aren’t gonna make the playoffs...... not gonna happen ...... just not gonna happen ....... look....... you want to roll around...... show the goods...... front the bling G money...... take care of your house at home first....... Jays in playoffs?....... give me a break.

Jamie: I liked the acquisition of Corey Koskie, a hard-nosed player with a solid bat. I like what I see of Hillenbrand. We'll have to wait on whether Schoeneweis is effective against lefties, and at the time of this writing, I'm not convinced Koch is going to make the team. Regardless of what I think, if the team can avoid the injuries that crippled them last year, I expect vast improvement.

Rick: What an odd thing to say halfway through the season. I’ve got nothing to add. The Jays will be fine. What a sucky trade deadline.

Chris: I’d just like to add that I’m auditioning for a role in next season’s "24" as the evil guest hockey commentator. I like my chances. Corey Feldman’s attached to direct.

Joe: Yeah I’m good. Give the young kids time to grow, don’t crowd them this season when the chances are so slim. Should be a great playoff race, who would have thought the Jays would hang around this long? Who could ask for anything more?

Blue Jays 5, Rangers 1: The Trade Deadline Inaction | 55 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Jdog - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#124359) #
5 bucks to anyone who reads the whole thing!
Jobu - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#124360) #
Just more legal notes:

I stole the opening song gimmick from Mo' Phat, who stole it from Steve Allen.
Jobu - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#124363) #
Wait.... am I allowed to claim the 5?
Pistol - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#124365) #
As CaramonLS pointed out, Palmeiro is apparently going to be suspended for a violation of the drug policy:

Jobu - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#124367) #
Damnit... I actually believed him when he testified. Well, that's what I get.
Lugnut Fan - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#124368) #
"I have never used steroids......Period". Will go down with President Nixon saying "I am not a crook".
BallGuy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#124370) #
Not to sound all superior or haughty but....
I knew it! I never believed that guy for a second.
Ok, it does sound all superior and haughty but who cares.
So, does this mean that he is still on the juice (stupid!) or that he is off it but it takes a real long time to pass through the body? Perhaps he should have called Barry to find out when it would have been safe to play again.
With all that talk about Palmeiro in the Hall of Fame especially after his 3,000th hit, how much does this damage his chances of induction?
BallGuy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#124371) #
"Ihave never used steroids.....Period."

Rack him.
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#124372) #
Before the crucifixion gets into full swing, let's remember that he's being suspended for a violation of the league's drug policy -- what drug was indicated in the positive test has not been revealed. Sure, steroids would be a good guess, but that's still a guess.

For all we know, Palmeiro has a cocaine habit.
James W - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#124373) #
Maybe Viagra was added to the "bad drug" list?

For the record, I still don't think he's a hall-of-famer.
CaramonLS - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#124374) #
Sorry NFH I think his comments confirm this:

""I have never intentionally used steroids. Never. Ever. Period," he said. "Ultimately, although I never intentionally put a banned substance into my body, the independent arbitrator ruled that I had to be suspended under the terms of the program." "
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#124375) #
Yep, I posted that before I heard his conference call. You'll notice that the league's own statements make no reference to steroids -- they never do.

He seems to think that he took a supplement that contained a steroid that he didn't know about. Hrm.
John Northey - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#124377) #
Bit of a surprise that a big gun was caught. No surprise that he denies it though. The Ben Johnson case should prevent any athlete who has anything to lose from ever admitting to anything until it is too late for anyone to do anything to them. If he didn't admit to steroid use his 9.83 100 meter record would've been left on the books as would've all his previously won medals. Instead the various groups removed all medals and records from Johnson. What a shock that no one since that time has come out and said "yup, I did it and I'm sorry/not sorry" unless they were, like Canseco, in a situation to gain more by admitting it then by saying "I never did it".

So, does this give Canseco any more credibility?
Ron - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#124378) #
If people say Big Mac doesn't belong in the HoF after his congress appearance then Raffy sure as hell doesn't.

People bashed Canseco before and after his book came out, but you start to wonder if there's some truth in there.

Also I have a feeling MLB delayed the announcement so Raffy could get his 3000th hit and wait for the HoF inductions to pass.
Paul D - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#124380) #
Also I have a feeling MLB delayed the announcement so Raffy could get his 3000th hit and wait for the HoF inductions to pass.

Is that a bad thing? They didn't want Boggs and Sandberg to have to deal with it, so they hold onto the announcement. I don't have a problem with that.

smcs - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#124381) #
It could have been some cough syrup or vitamins that had some banned substance in it.
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#124382) #
I don't think any kind of cough syrup contains steroids, but I did once use a prescription skin cream to clear up a rash that I later found out was a steroid. It also messed with my colour vision. No one thought to mention either of these things to me when writing or filling this prescription, though.

The humor of it was that I was making a living as a colour printer at the time, and suddenly became extraordinarily bad.
CeeBee - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#124383) #
hmmmmm... now it makes more sense why the O's tried to trade for Nevin.
Mike Green - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#124384) #
From a public relations perspective, it is not enough for Palmeiro to say that he did not intentionally take steroids. There surely has been enough publicity now about supplements and the like that the well-informed athlete knows or should know what contains steroids.
Keith Talent - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#124385) #
Not to be a complete jerk, but I'll re-post what I posted March 25:

I too am tired of people blindly believing Raphael Palmeiro. Here's what I replied to Scott Carson's naieve column on Canseco, his book, and Palmeiro:

Scott said of Jose Canseco: "What we witnessed was a pathetic character, who sold out his former teammates, some of them completely innocent, in the pursuit of the almighty dollar."

First, Canseco had primal motives for writing his book. I can't agree that money was the "almighty" motive. Writing books is not a million-dollar venture. And how do we know he sold out completely innocent teammates? Because Raphael Palmeiro denied using steroids in front of congress? Gee, who would lie to congress? Bill Clinton, for one.

Palmeiro's been really fishy ever since Canseco's public accusations. First it was: "Canseco's a liar and I'm going to sue him". When he was given his chance to have his say before congress, he had more pressing St. Patrick's Day comittments: "I can't make it, it's my wife's birthday," he said. Then he got subpeonaed, took a risk and showed, told his story, and congress didn't lean on him.

"Maybe I can forgive Canseco afterall", Palmeiro said after the hearing, "if this turns out to help baseball." Those are the words of one who is tremendously relieved.

I'm not saying I know Palmeiro is guilty. But the decision to take steroids is also the decision to lie about taking them whenever asked: "wasn't me". That's what you do when you take steroids, you lie about it, no matter who asks. The real fascination is how McGwire lost his nerve.

Do you think we'll still see Palmeiro as the swing-man for Viagara?
Craig B - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#124386) #
NFH, the ESPN story clearly says the positive test was for steroids. The arbitrator on his case, however, did say that he did not believe Palmeiro's use was intentional.
Keith Talent - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#124388) #

The arbitrator on his case, however, did say that he did not believe Palmeiro's use was intentional.

I think he was just being nice because he was talking to a Major Leaguer. He said Raffy's claim, that it wasn't intentional steroid use, was compelling, that's a far cry from believing the claim. That same arbitrator tossed out Palmeiro's grievance.

perlhack - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#124391) #
So, does this give Canseco any more credibility?

I find it disturbing that Canseco seems to be (slowly becoming) the most honest character when it comes to the issue of drugs in baseball.

Craig B - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#124392) #
NFH, the ESPN story clearly says the positive test was for steroids. The arbitrator on his case, however, did say that he did not believe Palmeiro's use was intentional.
Craig B - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#124393) #
Which he did because the policy does not make allowance for unintentional use, which is good.
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#124394) #
NFH, the ESPN story clearly says the positive test was for steroids.

At the time, all I thought they were going on was the release from MLB, that just said "for violation of MLB's drug policy". But Palmeiro's conference call, confirming that it was for steroids, moots the conversation anyways.

The reason I bring up the release is that on The Score they said "according to a release from Major League Baseball, Raphael Palmeiro has tested positive for steroids". Now, unless there was a second release from MLB that mentions steroids, they were just assuming.

But anyways, Palmeiro himself has confirmed that in this case it was steroids.
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#124395) #
The linked ESPN story has been updated multiple times, by the way -- it could not have contained those details of the conference call when it was initially posted, because the call had not happened yet.

I think that's where the confusion comes from.
CaramonLS - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#124397) #
Well if the Arbirator doesn't beleive this was an unintentional use of Steriods, it was probably because of the amount in his system.

Its like that Ribiglati thing (SP) he had traces of Pot in his blood, but it was an extremely residual amount. About 3 times the "limit" which is almost zero. Easily caught from 2nd hand inhalation.

Now I would like to see MLB release what was in his system, how much, and how much Palmeiro would have had to take to get it in his system.

I mean if it is trace amounts, it would be concievable that maybe he did ingest it by accident or someone slipped something in his drink. But of course thats probably not the case, I'd still like to know for certain.
BallGuy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#124398) #
This point is now moot but had Palmeiro failed the drug test for a recreational drug we may have seen him enter a rehabilitation program. As well, the Baltimore police may have been interested in Mr Palmeiro's recreational activities.
That said, and I made the following point way back in March, there are/were many players on steroids. Because they haven't been caught or admitted to taking them (Hello Barry!) doesn't mean it isn't/wasn't happening. I know, I know, there is no fire but there is a heck of a lot of smoke. With the announcement today, some flames have jumped up.
How many times have fans witnessed an athlete lie to cover up his/her wrong doing only to be caught later? Because of that I think Raffy will be on the receiving end of some particularly extra nasty venom because of his 'sincere' testimony before Congress.
And to think that before all this I didn't like him only because he used to beat the crap out of the Jays.
GrrBear - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#124399) #
In the middle of all this Palmeiro talk, I'd just like to congratulate Jobu on a hilarious read. I can't decide if it was the Jim Rome rack'ems or Cuthbert (IAFRATE!) that I liked the best, but I just hope gv27 carries some forgiveness along with that bird carcass.

It also occurred to me while reading that Rod Black stole Jim Rome's speech patterns.
Flex - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#124400) #
I am driven to agree. Very funny.
Jordan - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#124402) #
Palmeiro, Shmalmeiro. That was a great Game Report/Deadline Analysis from Jobu!
Jobu - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#124407) #
Allow to make these two points:

Gv27: I tease because I love.

I still have a perfect game report record. I say I make my own website and post game reports and the Jays simply can't lose.
Willy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#124408) #
Not sure where to post this, but I am driven to disagree with the view of some about whether Jerry Howarth "rocks".

<i>“Okay, the signs are "JERRY HOWARTH ROCKS 590" and ...” (VBF)

“I'm already a big fan of Jerry's because of his near-perfect combination of enthusiasm and knowledge, and I don't think I've ever heard him call a ‘bad’ game ....” (NFH)</i>

So...this will antagonize you two, and a few Rosterites as well, but Jerry does not “rock”. Not, not, not.

During the broadcast of one of the games at Rogers Centre with the Washington Nationals, Jerry wandered off into one of his customary sidetracks of anecdotage. He told of how the Nat’s catcher, Brian Schneider, had been the receiver for George Bush’s ceremonial first pitch at the team’s opening game in Washington. (And of how Schneider had ‘warmed up’ the President for 15 minutes in a tunnel before the big pitch.) Jerry unctioned on, remarking that George was ‘just a regular guy’–hey, all the Bushes are--and ‘very popular’, apparently oblivious to the fact that Bush is one of the most widely reviled Presidents in U.S. history.

It’s this preposterous disconnect between the real world and the one Jerry inhabits in his mind that is so gag-making. It’s bullshit, plain and simple. Everybody, but everybody, is Jerry’s friend. Indeed this year, I’ve noticed, they’re usually promoted to the category of great friend". (My great friend, Mike Tyson. My great friend, Jack the Ripper-–let me tell you about his wonderful family.) In Jerry’s world there is no evil, no stupidity-- nothing that might offend anyone. Maybe Jack the Ripper had a troubled history, but ... This is not good play-calling, folks. When Jerry’s judgement of the world around him is so utterly (and so falsely) undiscriminating, why should I trust his opinion of anything?

Recently he’s also found a new phrase to abuse. He likes to say “and suddenly”, even though the event he’s describing is the culmination-–pitch by pitch, inning by inning-–of everything he’s been incessantly describing before that. Nothing “sudden” about it. I see this as just one more sign of Jerry’s wish to see more significance in many events than exists in them, of his tendency to present platitudes as if they were revelations. He frequently tries to *manufacture* significance (or ‘excitement’) where none exists–and now he’s got Warren Sawkiw doing it, too. (At the Nationals’ game, Jerry said to Frank McKenna, Canada’s ambassador to the U.S., in tones of wonderment, that John McGibbon’s wife and McKenna’s wife were both named Julie! Pause. Longer pause, and finally McKenna says, “That’s memorable I guess.”, or something close to that.)

Jerry wants there to be these remarkable (to him anyway) ‘coincidences’ and faux significances for him to express his bogus astonishment at. They’re of no significance whatever, even should they actually-–well, sort of--exist. This tendency goes hand in hand with Jerry’s apparently obsessive need to *explain* things-–even things which need no explanation at all. He doesn’t seem to grasp that many in his audience know a great deal about baseball and its history, possibly even more than Jerry himself. Along with this relentless ‘instruction’ we get the same incident, statistic, or ‘fact’ repeated two or three (or more) times in the course of a game. JERRY DOESN’T TRUST US. He can’t just let the game be; and let us experience it and appreciate it as we are at present able to do. He must tell us when to be excited, and sometimes even how much. The clear assumption behind these tendencies is that we *need* instruction; that things have to be explained to us. By Jerry, our earnestly friendly mentor. No, they don’t. Please.

As for Sawkiw, Jerry’s new sidekick, and great friend, he too thinks that he must explain something in practically every at-bat. And often it’s jargon-filled ‘inside’ technical stuff that most fans simply don’t care about. In the course of one long disquisition on somebody’s at bat recently Sawkiw dropped the pithy expression “letting it get deep and seeing it long”. What the hell? We know Warren played professionally for a few years, but this, too, is bullshit. It’s the *game* that matters, not Warren’s ‘insider knowledge’ of instructional jargon, nor Jerry’s views on “family” or “friendship” or that regular guy, Dubya.

sweat - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#124410) #
maybe you should commit to doing the next 10 game reports, to get the Jays rolling.
Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#124411) #
Willy, you are reading a bizarre level of intention into plain old time-filling chatter. While Bush may be widely reviled, and I happen not to like him all that much, he can still be a regular guy who's excited to meet ballplayers, just to address one odd example. I am completely able to disconnect the politics from the man -- just because I disagree with his policies I don't have to think he's a monster.

And as to who is and is not a close friend of Jerry Howarth -- are you close enough to him or the people he's mentioned as close friends to be able to tell us that he's lying? That's a pretty serious accusation.

I can understand it if you don't like Jerry's style (which I happen to like -- I find it warm and approachable). I can understand it if you don't like the repetition inherent in a baseball broadcast (people drop in and out constantly, whether or not you listen to the whole game with rapt attention), and I can understand it if you don't like the level of explanation of all things baseball (personally, I find it pitched a little low, but this is the Toronto market and apparently baseball ain't what it used to be in popularity around here) -- but to ascribe malignant motives to these things is downright crazy.
Mike Green - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#124413) #
The sunniness of Jerry's disposition is definitely not to everyone's taste, but the key for any pbp announcer is to make you feel that you are at the game, by being the listener's eyes and ears at the park. Jerry does a good job of this.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#124414) #
The world could use more people like Jerry Howarth.
Willy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#124417) #
<i>Named For Hank - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#124411)
Willy, you are reading a bizarre level of intention into plain old time-filling chatter. to who is and is not a close friend of Jerry Howarth -- are you close enough to him or the people he's mentioned as close friends to be able to tell us that he's lying? That's a pretty serious accusation.
... but to ascribe malignant motives to these things is downright crazy.

Mike Green - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#124413)
...the key for any pbp announcer is to make you feel that you are at the game, by being the listener's eyes and ears at the park. Jerry does a good job of this.</i>

Firstly, I'm not ascribing "motives" to Jerry: I have no idea what they might be--certainly not "malignant". And I have no doubt that Jerry really believes all those people are his friends. I never suggested he was "lying". How can you say that, NFH? Sheesh, talk about attributing intentions to someone. Come on.

Mike's comment seems sensible: but the problem for me with Jerry is that he keeps *getting in between* the game and me. He should be transparent, invisible, a conduit--it's not about him and his personality (at least it isn't for me.) Yeah,, maybe the world could use more Jerry Howarths; but why should Jerry Howarth's personality even be an issue when I turn on the game? Describe the ball game, Jerry. Please don't tell me how, and when, I'm supposed to respond to it, and especially not to all sorts of things extraneous to the ball game. Another primary rule for any communicator is "don't talk down to your audience". Jerry does. Regularly.
Lefty - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#124418) #
Palmeiro's positive doping test is a major injustice to the loyal Oriole fans.

These would be the people who stood and gave him a standing ovation upon return to Baltimore after he got his 300oth hit in Seattle.

These would be the people who for better or worse put their trust in this player who on the balance of probability lied before Congress and to all baseball fans.

These are also the people who had such high expectations of their team for better than three months of this season. Building hope that they could contend in the AL East.

The Collective Bargaining Agreement says Palmeiro is suspended for 10 days.

If I was a fan who has invested so much in the Orioles I would be sending a letter to Mssrs. Beattie and Flanagan asking the team to more or less sit the man on the bench for the rest of yet another lost Oriole season and give his at bats to BJ Surhoff or a call-up.

As Tommy Douglas said: If you fool me once shame on me, but if you fool me twice shame on you.

BallGuy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#124419) #
If you dislike Jerry that much, you should try listening to the White Sox announcers or many of the U.S. broadcasters. Try listening to the fabled John Sterling who does the Yankees games....I think you will get a new appreciation for Jerry. Jerry knows his baseball and has a homey style that is easy to listen to. The Sox announcers and Sterling are so skewed towards their home teams you can practically hear the pom-poms rustling in the broadcast booth.
Granted you may not like his style but he adds the stories to help fill out (and fill up) the broadcast. I just came back from a trip to Red Sox nation and heard a lot of brutal PBP from several different teams' announcers.
It was good to come home to Jerry.
westcoast dude - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#124420) #
Willy, that was a good post.
I'd like to hear Buck Martinez with Jerry as his sidekick.
Tom Cheek did as much as anyone to make the Blue Jays champions. Let's get that back.
BallGuy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#124421) #
What an interesting announcement from Barry Bonds today:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds doesn't expect to play this season because of his injured right knee, putting the San Francisco slugger's quest for the career home run record on hold until at least 2006.

"I don't think you're going to see me out there this year," Bonds told on Monday. "That's the reality of the situation. I'm improving. I'm happy with the progress. I'm working out hard on the exercise bike and the elliptical machine, but I'm just not there yet. The last thing I want is to get back on the field and be out again a week later."

I am not at all surprised Bonds is not playing this year and it isn't because of his knee.
Willy - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#124422) #
Yes, I liked Tom Cheek's pbp very much. Perhaps we were spoiled by him. I also thought that Buck M. and Dan Shulman were excellent. I liked Ernie Harwell and Vin Scully. None of these guys forced their personality upon the broadcasts.

And I do know how bad many of the U.S. pbp people are. I can't understand why listeners don't complain to the broadcasting networks about them. We tolerate a lot of crap without comment, it seems.

Look fellahs, Jerry's better than many, I admit, and he's certainly "personable". But does he "rock"? Nah.
John Northey - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#124425) #
With Bonds, I think (although I could easily be wrong) that players on the DL are just as subject to testing as non-DL players. ie: as long as Barry is paid by SF he has to be testing, playing or not. Thus taking a year off due to injury would not prevent him from being caught.
Keith Talent - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#124426) #
My thoughts on Howarth aside (I only listen to games on the radio when driving my car, and he seems OK to me, and I like that he has an instantly recognizable nasaly voice - which used to drive me crazy at first, but am now used to)... I liked Willy's post just for the writing itself. I was laughing. It was passionate, it was funny.

Though, Willy, you went way too easy on Sawkiw; I'd be putting the screws to him a little more. God, I can't even listen to him announce the starting lineups:

BATTING.... FIRST..... SHORT..... STOP...... RUSS..... ADAMS......a fine .... young man ...... BATTING...... SECOND.....

Didn't they at least audition that guy?

You know who was one of the best for me? Dave Neihaus, PBP guy for Seattle. His pipes are getting a bit rusty now and I think he's not as sharp as he once was; but listening to radio broadcasts from him back in the 80s, early 90s was heaven. He would go a full minute all the time where all you could hear was crowd and stadium nose, and then come in with that wonderful Southern baseball accent.
westcoast dude - Monday, August 01 2005 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#124427) #
You're right about Dave Neihaus, Keith Talent. I'll never forget him describing Randy Johnson's heroics for the '95 Mariners. I wanted the Mariners to win it for Dave.
gv27 - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#124428) #
I am driven to express my gratitude to those who created the highly entertaining trade deadline round-table. (got the hint too) Do I get five bucks for reading it all?

I am a big fan of Howarth, but that doesn't preclude me from enjoying Willy's take on the role of the announcer. Finding that ground between keeping listeners informed, interested, and quite possibly entertained without stomping all over the evolution of each game is a task mastered by so few.
Flex - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#124429) #
Sorry NFH, I'm with Willy. A little Jerry used to go a long way, and now we've got him constantly. I've never liked his incessant sunny chatter. He's the anti-Cheek.

Warren is insufferable as well. He's a wannabe Jerry. The round tables they've just started? Please. We have to suffer through a game with them, and now we have to suffer through untold minutes after the game, when it used to be we could just enjoy Wilner.

Jerry modified by Wilner I could handle. Jerry plus Warren is just too much.
Andrew K - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 02:40 AM EDT (#124432) #
This has turned into an interesting discussion of baseball announcers. I wonder if, underneath it, is the question of whether the baseball world is the same world as the real world. If not, then it's perfectly acceptable for everything to be sun and light and happiness in the commentator's patter.

Things are much the same in the game of cricket, where the ability to keep things interesting is particularly important when the games last 5 days and sometimes end in a draw. I greatly regret the passing of the old-style announcers, who were poetic in their description of what was happening on the field, and stayed within the role of bringing the game to the listener. Although the modern presenters are jolly nice chaps, they tend to hype the game up, feeling the need a) incessantly to tell the listener when a vital moment is reached in the game, and b) to air strongly political views on the future direction of cricket. And there is a very recent trend of using certain "colourful" ex-players as game summarisers: not itself a bad thing, but they now select the players with the biggest egos, which is unbearable.

My favourite baseball announcers are the Red Sox TV guys. Remy is extremely knowledgable, but doesn't flaunt it. And Orsillo has a nice voice and relaxed delivery. It grates a bit when you aren't a member of the Red Sox Nation, but they are playing to their intended audience.
Named For Hank - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 07:50 AM EDT (#124434) #
I do agree that the team of Tom and Jerry was better than Jerry and Warren. I'm waiting for Warren to relax a little more up there before I pass final judgment on him -- and sometimes it just takes a team a while to gel. I was immensely saddened that John Cerutti passed away, especially because of the timing: he and Faulds had finally started to really click somewhere in the final third of the season, and I felt that Cerutti was bringing a lot to the broadcasts.

All that said, my original post on this subject was about the ninth inning of the 18 inning marathon. I don't think that any of your complaints about Jerry apply to that pure, beautiful inning of baseball play-by-play. In fact, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you heard it, willy.

(Oh, and I agree with KT -- the writing in your post was top-notch. I wish there were more well-written posts like that for me to disagree with.)
Named For Hank - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 08:17 AM EDT (#124435) #
If his reading of Jobu's Game Report means that Jamie Campbell will stop mentioning Jesse Barfield on the air, that pretty much wrecks my favourite baseball drinking game. ;)

Back to the subject of baseball play-by-play for a sec: when Mean Gene from the former WWF was a brief guest play-by-play man during a TV broadcast earlier this year, I think that was a real demonstration of how much skill and practice must be necessary to pull off that gig on a daily basis. He was just lost out there, even though he seemed to understand the game just fine. A lot of bad things have been said about Rod Black as a baseball play-by-play guy (much of it by me), but what's very strong about Black is that he can step into virtually any sport and sound like he knows what he's doing. He's confident, he makes few mistakes. I don't care much for his analysis, but I do respect his ability to drop in and out of the baseball pbp groove without sounding lost.

Oh, and my favourite pbp moment of the year so far has to have been Darrin Fletcher's horrified reaction to the Dog Day promo graphic:
You... you can bring your dog to the game?
Flex - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 08:40 AM EDT (#124439) #
I heard that too, NFH. That was a thing of beauty.

I guess ... are we assuming Tom won't be back? I haven't heard anything, but they seem to be talking about him less and less on air, as if the possibility is becomming more distant. If so, maybe it's okay we have to suck up a season of Jerry and Warren, just to remind us how good we had it.
Jacko - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#124448) #
Jerry, nasally voice and all, calls a solid game. I'm not a huge fan, but I like him just fine.

However, Warren Sawkiw has basically stopped me from listening to the radio broadcasts. I've turned the radio multiple times this year after listening to one of his well intentioned but non-sensical comments about a player or situation.

I don't think Sawkiw is talentless, I just think he's a terrible colour guy. He would be much better utilized as one of the Sportsnet News goofs, where at least his looks would be put to better use.
Rob - Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#124506) #
July 20, 2005: Ryan Franklin gets mad at Orlando Hudson for "cheating."

(less than two weeks pass)

August 2, 2005: Ryan Franklin suspended 10 days for cheating. (AP)
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