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During his career, there were questions whether Jack Morris might be a Hall of Famer. He seemed to find his way to winning teams, and to pitch deep into games and win more than his share. His 10 inning shutout of the Braves in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series was thought to be the crowning jewel on his career. Let's take a second look.

The Tigers drafted Jack Morris in the 5th round of the 1976 draft, having selected Alan Trammell in Round 2, Dan Petry in Round 4 with Ozzie Smith to follow in Round 7. Now that's what I call a primo draft. The Tigers had nabbed Lance Parrish in the first round of the 1974 draft, Lou Whitaker in the 5th round of the 1975 draft and Kirk Gibson in the 1st round of the 1977 draft. By then, the core of their fine 1980s teams was in place.

Morris rocketed through the farm system reaching the majors in late 1977. He spent 1978 as a swingman, and then broke through in 1979, posting a career-high ERA+ of 133 in 197 innings. Career high ERA+ of 133 cannot be right, can it? It is. During his prime in the 1980s, he put up good, but not great, ERAs despite having a fine defensive team behind him (the Tigers were above average in defensive efficiency ratio every year from 1980 to 1988 and led the league twice). He did however pitch consistently late into games, and annually was among the league leaders in innings pitched and complete games. In 1989, the Tigers sagged and Morris put up a miserable 6-14 mark with a 4.89 ERA.

After his third off-year in a row in 1990, he signed as a free agent with the Twins. He put up a season that was equal to his best to lead the Twins back to the playoffs. Once there, he won 4 games as the Twins repeated their unlikely World Series championship of 1987. One of the keys to their victory was their fine defence.

Morris left the Twins after 1991 and joined the Jays for their World Series championships of 1992 and 1993, but pitched poorly in Toronto during the regular season and in the 1992 playoffs. He signed with the Indians after the 1993 season (he was clearly astute at picking teams on the upswing), but pitched poorly in 1994. When the season stopped in August due to the labour dispute, Morris was released by the Indians and his career was done.

Can a pitcher with an ERA+ of 105 and 3800 innings pitched, with fine defence behind him, really be considered for the Hall of Fame? You wouldn't think so, but there are less worthy pitchers there. So, without further ado, here's the chart with Dennis Martinez, Luis Tiant and Catfish Hunter as comparison points for Morris:

Pitcher     IP(seasons)   ERA+   K/9IP(Lg)   W/9IP(Lg)  HR/9IP(Lg)  Team DER(Lg)  W-L

Morris      3824.0(14.8)  105    5.8(5.1)    3.3(3.3)   0.9(0.9)    708(700)      254-186
Martinez    3999.7(15.7)  106    4.8(5.4)    2.6(3.3)   0.8(1.0)    701(696)      245-193
Tiant       3486.3(12.3)  114    6.2(5.3)    2.9(3.4)   0.9(0.8)    709(707)      229-172
Hunter      3449.3(12.1)  104    5.2(5.5)    2.5(3.4)   1.0(0.8)    715(706)      224-166 


As you can see, Morris compares favourably to Hall of Famer Catfish Hunter, but not to Dennis Martinez or Luis Tiant. Tiant put up superb seasons in 1968 and 1972, which far dwarf what any of the others did, and I make him the best of the lot. I do not think Tiant is quite a Hall of Famer, but it is very, very close.

It does not seem well understood that playing for the A's and Yankees in the 70s, as Hunter did, and playing for the Tigers in the 80s (followed by the Twins and Blue Jays in the early 90s), as Morris did, will help a pitcher's ERA and won-loss record. It makes an average pitcher look good and a good pitcher look very good. The careers of Walt Terrell and Milt Wilcox provide good evidence of that.

The great players on the Tigers of the 1980s were Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker and Kirk Gibson. Lance Parrish was a very fine catcher. Jack Morris was a good and durable pitcher, who found himself in the company of these far superior players, and put up superficial statistics that suggested that he was better than he was. Bert Blyleven's 5th best season, 1987, is superior to any of Morris'. Tommy John was significantly better at his peak and over his career, and threw almost 1000 innings more.

Next up: Roger Clemens
2006 Hall of Fame ballot-Jack Morris | 17 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Donkit R.K. - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 09:19 AM EST (#139609) #
This shouldn't even be a debate... no HOF for Morris...
Mick Doherty - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 10:11 AM EST (#139623) #
I don't think he'll get in -- though I do think he should -- but to dismiss it out of hand is silly. His 10 most similar pitchers historically, are:

Dennis Martinez (903)
Tom Glavine (901)
Bob Gibson (885) *
Luis Tiant (873)
Red Ruffing (861) *
Chuck Finley (859)
Amos Rusie (859) *
Burleigh Grimes (855) *
Bob Feller (855) *
Jim Bunning (854) *

Six of the 10 are IN the HOF, a seventh (Glavine) will be and you can make arguments for Martinez and Tiant, though less so for Finley.

Morris was at least arguably the best starting pitcher of the 1980s -- Roger Clemens would have something to say about that -- so it's not a bit inconceiveable that he is a Hall of Famer.
scooter - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 10:19 AM EST (#139624) #
"but pitched poorly in Toronto during the regular season and in the 1992 playoffs"

I know that his 1992 regular season -- with an ERA over 4 -- wasn't pretty, but "poor" seems just a tad harsh seeing how he went 21-6.

Otherwise I think you're right about him and the HoF...
Mike D - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 10:34 AM EST (#139626) #
"Poor" is very harsh to describe his 1992 regular season. It's a considerably more fair assessment of his playoff performance that year.
Mike Green - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 11:21 AM EST (#139629) #
You're both right. Poor is a harsh description of his 1992 regular season. His ERA+ of 102 with a good defence behind him was essentially average.

I try to avoid getting worked up about the fact that Jack Morris gets more support than Lou Whitaker, but I guess that sneaks in from time to time.
Mike Green - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 11:45 AM EST (#139630) #
Mick, you have to take the BBRef comparable pitchers with a huge grain of salt. Jack Morris was nothing like Bob Gibson, Amos Rusie, and Bob Feller. Tom Glavine has an ERA+ of 120 and has pitched more innings than Morris already, and has a better W-L.

As for Morris as the best pitcher of the 1980s, he was among the top 10 in ERA+ in the AL twice during that decade, 6th in 1986 and 8th in 1987, despite having a fine defence behind him. There were no truly great pitchers from the beginning of the decade until the end, but Stieb, Hershiser, Clemens and Saberhagen were pretty clearly better. In truth, Jimmie Key and Frank Viola were better too.
Mylegacy - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 02:50 PM EST (#139640) #
My recollections of Morris are that he won ugly.

I'm sure I saw interviews with him back then and he would say that he didn't care what his era was etc. etc. as long as he won. He was awful in the playoffs for us.

With Detroit, he had a good 1980's but I always saw him as a winner rather than as a particularly good pitcher. Mind you, winning ain't actually a sin is it?
MatO - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 03:48 PM EST (#139648) #
What I remember about the 1992 season is that Morris actually pitched brilliantly on the road (ERA in the 2's) but he was awful at home (ERA over 5). Despite the lousy ERA he still had a winning record at home because of massive run support.
CaramonLS - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 05:16 PM EST (#139666) #
Morris wont be getting in with that Career ERA.

Solid pitcher who stayed Healthy and got some solid win totals.

Magpie - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 08:07 PM EST (#139678) #
Is Jack Morris a Hall of Famer?

As always, it depends where you set the bar. He's better than some starting pitchers who have already been enshrined, and 254 wins is worthy of a little respect.

The knock has always been that he gave up a lot of runs. It's a valid knock - Job One for a pitcher has always been preventing the other team from scoring runs. Morris and his backers have always claimed that Morris "pitched to the score" - in a close game or a low-scoring game, he was allegedly able to raise his level of performance. Given a comfortable lead, he would put it on cruise control and allow the other team to score some runs, while soaking up innings and closing out the game. Morris' managers were generally always very willing to let this take place. Morris, as he said loudly and often, didn't care about his ERA. He always said he would rather allow three runs in the ninth and get the CG victory than turn a 4 run lead over to the pen.

This is an extremely hard thing to document, and I'm not interested enough to do the heavy lifting. In my enormous study of Dave Stieb last spring, I did find some evidence that suggested that the fewer runs the Tigers scored, the better Morris pitched. His superior W-L record compared to Stieb was far more a matter of Stieb's bad luck than Morris' good luck.

Anyway - as is well known, Morris went 21-6 for the 1992 Blue Jays while posting a distinctly unimpressive 4.06 ERA. He had 34 starts that year, and worked at least 6 innings in all but three of those starts. In those three, he went 1-1, 14.25. Of the other 31, 19 were Quality Starts, and he went 16-1, 1.90 in those games. That's not all that great - almost every pitcher has an ERA below 2.00 in his Quality Starts. It is better than his work in the 21 games he actually won (21-0, 2.67), which you would also expect. As far as I can tell, in 1992 Morris had 4 Cheap Wins and no Tough Losses.

But none of that was the most important thing Morris did for the Jays that year. In August, Jimmy Key went 1-4. Juan Guzman spent most of the month on the DL and went 0-1 in two starts. David Wells went back into the rotation and went 1-4 in five starts. The team stumbled through a 14-16 month, and if Morris hadn't held the ship together by himself (he went 5-1 in August), they would have been coming from behind in September.

Glevin - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 09:33 PM EST (#139684) #
"There were no truly great pitchers from the beginning of the decade until the end, but Stieb, Hershiser, Clemens and Saberhagen were pretty clearly better. In truth, Jimmie Key and Frank Viola were better too."

I am not a huge fan of wins, but they do mean something. So do IP. There is a reason Morris won so many games beyond the teams he played on. He pitched a lot of innings. He led his team in wins ten times despite pitching with some good pitchers, he was in top-10 in IP 9 times. He was top-10 in games started 11 times and so on. Morris had 10 years in a row with over 197.67 IP and ended up 3824, plus nearly another 100 in post-season play. For what it's worth, Baseball reference has him as an above-average HOFer based on HOF monitor. IMO, I don't think he is, but he is close. I have little doubt from watching him so much, that he didn't bear down nearly as much in close games, it is actually something that seems to be very common among closers in particular. The best comp for me actually comes from hockey: Grant Fuhr. I wouldn't vote for him, but he wouldn't be at the bottom of the hall. Morris pitched over 988 more innings than Viola and about 1300 more than Key. Replace Viola or Key with a pitcher with a 4.50 ERA (which would be a pretty decent starter at those IP) and they both look a lot worse.
6-4-3 - Friday, January 13 2006 @ 09:57 PM EST (#139686) #
"Baseball reference has him as an above-average HOFer based on HOF monitor"

That's not quite accurate. Bill James' Hall of Fame monitor isn't designed to tell if a player is worthy of being in the hall of fame, it's designed to tell if a player will be voted into the hall of fame. Because of this, it basically shows how well known a player was. Morris scores a 122.5, and if a player scores over 100 he's likely to make it into the hall. James' Hall of Fame standards test is what decides if a player is worthy of the hall of fame. 50 is an average hall of famer, and Morris scores a 39.0. You can find the full breakdown on baseball reference if you click on the HOF standards and HOF monitor links on the bottom of a player's page. Morris scores well on the HOF monitor, and not the standards, because the HOF monitor system gives him a lot of points for starting and winning so many playoff games. The standards system doesn't give him any points for that.

In other news, Blair's blog has been updated with a story about the World Baseball classic. Halladay and Glaus aren't going to play, Wells and BJ Ryan are likely to play for team USA, the Cat's representing Italy, and Shea Hillenbrand is going to make his many fans in the Netherlands proud. I can't wait to see that team.
Hartley - Saturday, January 14 2006 @ 12:33 AM EST (#139691) #
Jack Morris has solid credentials for the Hall of Fame
5 Time American League All Star
4 World Series Wins
3 20 Win Seasons
1 No Hitter thrown in 1984 vs. Chicago White Sox
1 World Series MVP 1991
Most wins during the 1980's.
Mike Green - Monday, January 16 2006 @ 10:34 AM EST (#139778) #
Jack Morris won precisely 9 more games over his career than would be expected if his teams spread out their runs scored evenly, 6 of those in 1992. Morris was, if I recall correctly, the league leader in run support in 1992. I'll dig out the 1993 Bill James book tonight and check.

I agree that if the bar is set low, Jack Morris might qualify. He was as good a pitcher as Catfish Hunter, and had a longer career. By that standard though, Luis Tiant would be a shoo-in, and his advocates were far less numerous.
Mike Green - Monday, January 16 2006 @ 11:51 AM EST (#139779) #
I checked Morris' August 1992. He did pitch well, but he still was well supported. He went 5-1, but one of them was a 15-11 game; the Jays led 8-0 after 3 innings and 12-3 after 4 and 1/2. Morris left after 5 innings. In another, the Jays staked him to a 6-0 lead after 2, and he went 7 innings allowing 2 earned runs.

Over the season, he did perhaps pitch a little better than his ERA suggested, although overall he received superior and often early support from the offence and terrific bullpen support. Being able to last a consistent 7 innings against average opposition was a real virtue with Ward and Henke waiting in the bullpen. His won-loss record does reflect his run and bullpen support, but he was arguably able to make better use of the set-up/closer support that was available than other starters, due to his durability.
costanza - Monday, January 16 2006 @ 01:26 PM EST (#139782) #
In my enormous study of Dave Stieb last spring, I did find some evidence that suggested that the fewer runs the Tigers scored, the better Morris pitched

I wonder if this is something that would be true in general. If, on a given day, a team scores fewer runs than average, perhaps that day's particular "conditions" such as weather or pitcher-friendly umpiring might have been part of the reason for it. In those cases, that team's pitcher would likely also be benefitting from these "external factors" and would. I don't know how big a factor something like this would be, but could it not contribute to just such an effect?

Morris and his backers have always claimed that Morris "pitched to the score" - in a close game or a low-scoring game, he was allegedly able to raise his level of performance. Given a comfortable lead, he would put it on cruise control and allow the other team to score some runs, while soaking up innings and closing out the game

This is true to some extent, but there were several times where he got wins that he might not have "deserved" where he did nothing of the sort. From that '92 season, for example:

May 31

In this game, Morris never once pitched with the lead. After 8 1/2 innings, it was 2-1 Chicago. How many times did we see this play out with Dave Stieb, where he'd pitch a great game, only to happen to have his opponent do slightly better? Morris was fortunate that the Jays scored two off Thigpen in the bottom of the ninth to give him the win. (He was almost surely in the showers by that point... even if the Jays had tied the game, I can't imagine he'd have gone out in the 10th).

July 4

Trailing 4-0 after 1, 6-1 in the 5th, Morris was especially lucky that the Jays rallied for 6 runs, giving him a 7-6 lead after six innings. Unlike the game above, Morris obviously did not pitch well in this game, and in giving up all those runs, there clearly was no "pitching to the score" going on.

July 21

Another poorly pitched game, giving up a 5-spot in the 5th that put his team down 5-3. The Jays rally to take the lead, Morris pitches one inning to hold the lead, before turning it over to the bullpen.

To be "fair", there were a few games where the Jays put big numbers up on the board early, and Morris seemingly responded by giving up more runs than he "might" have otherwise.

Given games like these three, though, it seems that he certainly did win games where he was just lucky that the Jays scored when he did, and there was no magic "pitching to the score" ability that got him the kind of wins Dave Stieb never seemed able to.

The team stumbled through a 14-16 month, and if Morris hadn't held the ship together by himself (he went 5-1 in August), they would have been coming from behind in September

Yes, except Morris one loss in August came in his biggest start of the year! Recapping, Baltimore came into TO for a four-game series, trailing the Jays by two games. With the Brewers 5.5 games back, it looked like a big series could put the division away for the Jays. Thanks to a strong effort from Todd Stottlemyre, the Jays took the first game of the series to take a 3-game lead. Baltimore beat Morris and Key 3-0 and 11-4, though to close within one game.

With Juan Guzman on the DL, (and Dave Stieb having filled in for Guzman the previous time through the rotation, in what would turn out to be his last appearance as a Jay, before his comeback) Cito turned to rookie Doug Linton to make the biggest start of the year, against flame-throwing super-prospect Arthur Rhodes, whose torrid first trip through the AL had included a shutout at Yankee Stadium. (In September, Rhodes would shut down the Jays to deny Morris in his second try to win his 20th game)

For a "pessimistic" fan like myself, it looked like it was going to be August 1983 all over again, with the looming possibility of losing three straight to fall into a tie. Luckily, Linton pitched the game of his life, allowing 3 hits and 2 runs in 8 innings, and the Jays rallied for 2 (inherited) runs in the bottom of the 8th to squeak out a win. The O's loss was the start of a 3-7 run that allowed the Jays to open up some breathing room in the AL East race... who knows how things would've turned out without Linton's start?

So, I stubbornly say that it was Doug Linton, not Jack Morris, that was the key to keeping the Jays in the race in August, 1992. (Despite Linton's 34.20 ERA in his next three appearances :-) So, while Morris certainly had a decent year, I don't think it adds much, if at all, to the argument that he deserves to be in the HOF.

Mike Green - Tuesday, January 17 2006 @ 09:13 AM EST (#139836) #
Bill James' 1993 Baseball Book reports that Morris received 5.98 runs per game of support. James belittled the suggestion that Morris won 21 games in 1992 because he knew how to win describing it as a "varnished buffalo turd".
2006 Hall of Fame ballot-Jack Morris | 17 comments | Create New Account
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