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JP Ricciardi on the Fan590 this morning announced that the Jays had designated Royce Clayton for assignment after yesterdays game.  Per JP, John McDonald had won the shortstop job and the Jays did not feel they should keep Clayton around in a backup role.  JP said that the Jays would make a roster move before Fridays game, presumably to call-up Rey Olmedo.

JP also said that the Jays would be unlikely to have many September call-ups.  He repeated that this years team will be next years team so he didn't need to audition many players.  Expect to see a few guys who could be in the bullpen or play in a reserve role next season.

Clayton's release should not be a big surprise, he was losing playing time, his defense was being questioned, and he was not happy in a backup role.

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Squiggy - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#172415) #
Does that officially make JP 1-for-5 on off-season, 1-year contract FA signings (Thomson, Zambrano, Ohka, Clayton all gone, with Stairs being the only bright spot)? Ugh. I think even the biggest pessimist among us didn't think it would be this bad. Having said that though, Stairs has performed at a level that almost justifies the cumulative salaries on his own.

Now that almost all of the injured players are back and most of the dead weight is jettisoned, I am still waiting to see the dance around .500 end at some point. I think that there has to be a good win streak ahead to justify any optimism with this crew for 2008.

Pistol - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:11 AM EDT (#172419) #
Of all the players the Jays signed and released this year it was only money spend on them, and a pretty minimal amount at that.  And it's not like spending money on those players prevented the Jays from getting other players that would be useful for the team this year.  It was just part of the money that Lilly and Meche wouldn't take.

The worst thing about the signings was that they probably stuck with Ohka for a few too many starts and Zambrano never should have started.  But Ohka only had 10 starts and Zambrano 2.  If Marcum and McGowan were in the rotation then it might have been another couple wins which probably doesn't make too much of a difference this year.

Hopefully Olmedo gets enough playing time to see if there's anything there or not, which I imagine is why the Jays are making this move.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#172422) #
One option is to platoon McDonald and Olmedo.  From Gerry's account of the radio interview, that does not seem to be too likely as it would mean many fewer appearances for McDonald. 
Chuck - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:42 AM EDT (#172423) #

And it's not like spending money on those players prevented the Jays from getting other players that would be useful for the team this year.

While that's true, the Clayton saga represents more than just frittered away money (which is Ted's, not mine, so I don't care). It represents an egregious miscalculation. Either the brass truly believed that a 37-year old, replacement level calibre Royce Clayton could magically suddenly perform at a higher level, or, much more likely, the organization went into 2007 electing to punt on one of the 8 defensive positions, naively believing that this was an offense that could be papered over with the rest of the lineup. Such blinkered thing reveals a lack of appreciation of the disastrous nature of blackholes in the lineup and at that macro level of thinking, is a highly troubling blind spot.

Cracka - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#172424) #

Just a hunch, but I think we'll see Sergio Santos recalled in lieu of Olmedo.   Santos has been on fire - currently on a 7-game hit streak, going 12-28 with 8 RBI during the past week -- he's certainly an intriguing prospect at SS.    While Olmedo is better suited for a reserve infielder role, I don't think there's much upside beyond what you see (slick glove, decent contact hitter, no power).  

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part...

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#172426) #

I'd be stunned if it's Santos. His numbers aren't that solid (nice, but not "promote straight from AA"), he's apparently not great defensively, and I think you can make the case his career has already been damaged by being pushed too hard.

I'd like to see what Olmedo can do. More likely than not he's another John McDonald, but there's some upside.

Anders - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#172427) #
Either the brass truly believed that a 37-year old, replacement level calibre Royce Clayton could magically suddenly perform at a higher level, or, much more likely, the organization went into 2007 electing to punt on one of the 8 defensive positions, naively believing that this was an offense that could be papered over with the rest of the lineup. Such blinkered thing reveals a lack of appreciation of the disastrous nature of blackholes in the lineup and at that macro level of thinking, is a highly troubling blind spot.


Well, you know, either that or there weren't any other short stops available as free agents in the off season.

Julio Lugo: 4 years/$36 m,  .222/.289/.325
Rich Aurilia:  2 years/$8 m, .250/.296/.371 (he's mostly played 1st)
Alex Gonzalez: 3 years/$14m, .251/.297/.444
Mark Loretta: 1 years/$2.5m,  .287/.362.375
Royce Clayton: 1 year/$1.5m, .254/.304/.344 .

So basically of the 5 players who could play short stop who signed as free agents heading into this season, Clayton is in the middle in terms of production, and is the cheapest. This isnt taking defense into account, obviously, but, i would suggest that the Jays probably settled on Clayton because he was one of few options, as opposed to anything else. These numbers are pretty quick and dirty, but they get the point across.
 
Newton - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#172428) #

There were plenty of 2nd baseman available this past offseason, and we do have a kid named Aaron Hill....

The solution was pretty obvious to this fan.

greenfrog - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#172429) #
I'm glad to see Royce DFA'd. I'm not sorry, though, that the Jays missed out on Lugo, who is hitting .222/.289/.325 and making $36M over the next 4 years, plus a $9M vesting option for 2011. Ouch.

I think Thomas probably has to go at some point this season. I can't see the 40-year-old version being any better in '08. JP's refrain this year has been "We're not worried...Thomas has always hit" but somehow missed the point that eventually aging hitters stop hitting (usually before age 39). As usual, Beane gets out before a veteran goes into decline, or becomes overpriced.

We've talked a lot about our need for a SS and C, but I think 3B could be a pressing need for next year too. I'm not sure how much longer Glaus can last as the Jays' full-time 3B.

tstaddon - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#172430) #
Just hopped on the site and, honestly, I can't remember reading better Jays news in some time. This is excellent. Hopefully we'll see Olmedo or Adams recalled, with Santos moving up to AAA to fill their shoes. Then, if Sergio  performs well during August, I'd hope he's brought up as a reward of sorts during September.

Speaking of which, here's who I'd like to see join the team in 30 days (obvious returnees like Burnett and Chacin not included): Gronkiewicz, Banks, De Jong, Vermilyea, Adams, Olmedo, Santos, Lind. It'd be nice to see Jason Frasor, too.

tstaddon - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#172431) #
Also: with shortstops on the brain, I've done some looking around and, apart from David Eckstein or Kaz Matsui (who's best years have been at 2B and likely won't leave Colorado anyway), neither of whom are that great anyway, there's absolutely nothing on the market at SS this winter. With Battersbox crush Wilson Betemit seemingly off the market, who else could be our middle infield savior? Well, here's an intriguing out-of-box idea:

Bill Hall. Yes, he's currently manning CF for Milwaukee, but look closer. It's not as crazy as it may seem. A year ago, Hall was Milwaukee's starting shortstop when JJ Hardy went down. He was no thrill with the glove, but absolutely destroyed the baseball and turned it into a contract that starts getting heavy in 2008. He's signed through 2010, with a ridiculous club option for the following year. Milwaukee has excellent organizational outfield depth and may determine they're better off promoting someone Tony Gwynn Jr. et al instead of paying Hall big money next yea, especially if they could net a decent return. Those young infielders are going to have arbitration dates eventually, after all. From our perspective, it remains to be seen whether 2006 was Hall's career year or whether this season is an aberration. Personally, I'm open to taking that chance. Especially if Hall could be had for, say, 75% of what Lyle Overbay was. Players that might appeal include: Litsch, Frasor, Tallet, Purcey, Diaz, Adams (in a Weeks platoon?). Again, it might not be the answer, but it's worth investigating, fits JP's circa 2010 team plan and may well be better than any other option at this point. Regarding Litsch in particular, he's a great kid -- but his value may never be higher than it will be this November. Thoughts, comrades?
natan79 - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#172432) #
Does that officially make JP 1-for-5 on off-season, 1-year contract FA signings (Thomson, Zambrano, Ohka, Clayton all gone, with Stairs being the only bright spot)? Ugh. I think even the biggest pessimist among us didn't think it would be this bad. Having said that though, Stairs has performed at a level that almost justifies the cumulative salaries on his own.

Now that almost all of the injured players are back and most of the dead weight is jettisoned, I am still waiting to see the dance around .500 end at some point. I think that there has to be a good win streak ahead to justify any optimism with this crew for 2008.

 

Hi everyone,

Long-time fan of this site, first time posting...  My birthday is coming up in a couple days and yesterday someone asked me what I wanted...  I actually said "Royce Clayton being jettisoned would be the best present " (besides the Jays actually playing well for an extended period but I think that may be too much to ask for at this point).  At least Stairs proved to be a great signing... I'd like to see him platooning with Thomas as others have mentioned. 

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#172433) #

I don't think signing Clayton was a bad move in and of itself. Sometimes you get lucky with this sort of thing. Plenty of people, myself included, didn't think much of signing Stairs, either. And you can't really complain about John Thomson working out, either, since he never even threw a pitch with the big club.

That said, having Clayton and McDonald on the roster was absurd. And Clayton's time on the roster far outlasted any hope his career might escape the grim reaper.

Pistol - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#172434) #
Maybe Thomas is done, or at least done with .550-.600 Slg%, but if you look at his career stats his Slg% were in the high 400s four out of five years from 98-02.  Going into his age 35 season I don't think too many people would have predicted 4 years of mid-high 500 Slg% from him.

So I wouldn't be certain that he can't bounce back next year.

Chuck - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#172435) #

I don't think signing Clayton was a bad move in and of itself. Sometimes you get lucky with this sort of thing. Plenty of people, myself included, didn't think much of signing Stairs, either.

The difference being that Clayton was signed to be a starting shortstop whereas Stairs was signed to be a 4th outfielder.

And the sometimes you get lucky with this sort of thing is exactly the problem. Clayton has been bad since age 30. He's now 37. What were the odds that the Jays would get lucky with this sort of thing? About the same as Adam Sandler winning an academy award? Praying for a miracle is not a sound organizational strategy. While very possibly yielding the same results, scaring up somebody else's AAA shortstop who at least had age on his side would have been a more creative attempt at dealing with the shortstop issue. Targeting a semi-famous 37-year old and engaging in wishcasting is hardly the mark of a visionary organization.

I still would have preferred Lugo to Thomas/Clayton. Yes, Lugo has stunk, but this is on the heels of many years of very consistent performance. There's no reason to write him off just yet.

Chuck - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#172437) #

So I wouldn't be certain that he can't bounce back next year.

Except that father time's clock is ticking and will strike 40 early next season.

And, if our eyes are to be believed, he just doesn't like right (I am a bigger fan of objective measurements than mere observation, but still....). Yes, a lot of that is the crazy Walt Hriniak helicopter swing, which looks bad even when the results are good. But he has seemed overmatched for much of the season and I'm not sure what the basis for optimism would be at this point.

Kieran - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#172439) #
Let's take a look at the 2008 Jays from an outsider's perspective for a second. This team has been around .500 for a few years now, and if we field the same team next year, why would anyone expect anything different? Sure, some players will continue to develop (McGowan, Janssen, Lind, Rios, Hill) but others are likely to decline (Thomas, Glaus, Stairs, Zaun) plus there are some health concerns (Burnett, Ryan, Chacin, etc.) and gaping holes at SS, C, LF.

If JP is serious about winning, this team needs 1-2 more star-level players, in my opinion.
Thomas - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#172440) #

Speaking of which, here's who I'd like to see join the team in 30 days (obvious returnees like Burnett and Chacin not included): Gronkiewicz, Banks, De Jong, Vermilyea, Adams, Olmedo, Santos, Lind

I don't think we'll see that many callups. JP doesn't usually call up many prospects and he said he's not likely to this year. I hope we'll see Fasano (make use of his ability to work with Thigpen and the young pitchers for a month), Gronk (who should be here instead of Wolfe), Lind (get him a few at-bats here and there) and possibly Adams (see what he has to offer).

Personally, I don't disagree with some of the other names you've mentioned, but I just don't think the Jays will find work for them. De Jong and Vermilyea could well deserve a few innings, but the Jays can't find enough work for Frasor as is and Gronk is (or should be) ahead of De Jong on the depth chart. Also, Vermilyea's had a dead arm at times this year and I wouldn't push him. With an 8th man in the bullpen (and possibly 9th if Chacin is back), the team would also be pressed to find Banks any innings.

Sanjay - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#172441) #

I would really like to see JP make a push for a trade involving Michael Young over the off-season.

I think if we could offer a package involving Jesse Litsch and Adam Lind (or Reed Johnson, if they go for it) for Michael Young and maybe a mid-leve prospect in return. 

Jesse Litsch would have to be considered our Number 1 pitching prospect and Lind our Number 1 hitting prospect.  Texax got Atlanta's top 3 prospects for Teixeira, so it would have to be in that ballpark.  Teixeira also had only 1 year left remaining on his contract.

We would have a solid rotation of Hallday, Burnett, Marcum, McGowan and Janssen. 

We could have the following lineup:

  1. Reed Johnson - LF
  2. Michael Young - SS
  3. Vernon Wells - CF
  4. Troy Glaus - 3B
  5. Frank Thomas - DH
  6. Alex Rios - RF
  7. Lyle Overbay - 1B
  8. Aaron Hill - 2B
  9. Curtis Thigpen - C

We would have a huge offensive improvement at SS.  Wells and Young might bring some special chemistry to the team.

I think if the Jays are serious about being contenders in the next 3 years, then JP has to seriously start considering making some moves.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#172442) #
A gaping hole in left-field?  Reed Johnson has hit .311/.373/.464 against left-handed pitching.  He will be 31 in December. Adam Lind has hit .269/.308/.467 against right-handed pitching, and there is reason to believe from his age and minor league record that he can do better than that.  The club's best prospect, Travis Snider, is a corner outfielder at this stage.  I see no gaping hole in left-field, but rather an opportunity for a productive platoon arrangement, with Johnson getting additional time subbing for Wells and Rios occasionally.

On the other hand, there has been a serious middle infield problem since Hudson was traded and the prospects for relief from within the organization in the next couple of years are not great.  That is why it is so important that Olmedo get a decent trial in 2007.

BigTimeRoyalsFan - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#172445) #
Bill Hall. Yes, he's currently manning CF for Milwaukee, but look closer. It's not as crazy as it may seem.

Sounds like a great idea to me. He has an attractive contract, and great 05-06 stats. Honestly, even with his down year this year, at those prices he is worth it. I'd love to see him come play ss for the Jays. I too agree its imperative for the Jays to find a bona fide starting ss if they intend on contending next year.

I would really like to see JP make a push for a trade involving Michael Young over the off-season. I think if we could offer a package involving Jesse Litsch and Adam Lind (or Reed Johnson, if they go for it) for Michael Young and maybe a mid-leve prospect in return.

Sounds like a bad idea to me. I don't like the idea of owing him 16m a year until 2013, especially not at the cost of Litsch and Lind. A major part of Hall's value comes from his contract. Young doesn't really have that. Unless of course Texas is willing to pick up part of his salary, then I'd be open to the idea. Otherwise let's keep that 16m we apparently can afford to pay Young and combine it with the 11m we were prepared to Lilly and what do you have? The greatest home run hitter of all time, Alex Rodriguez.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#172446) #
A-Rod is a perennial MVP candidate, but whoever acquires him will be buying at absolute peak value. He will get a ridiculous amount of money. What the Jays need is a deeper core of young position players and a better allocation of financial resources, not a veteran with a contract that will eat up about 30% of the team's payroll.

I'm also not sure whether he could play a competent SS at this point in his career, although he would obviously be a great 3B to have around.
Anders - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#172447) #
There were plenty of 2nd baseman available this past offseason, and we do have a kid named Aaron Hill....

Really? Like who.....?   Pile on JP for lots of things, but I can't imagine people wouldnt be complaining if Aaron Hill was playing short and one of the following dubious bunch was playing second.

Free Agent 2b signed this past offseason + current numbers

Geoff Blum, 1y, 900k - .234/.313/.319
Jamey Carroll, 2y, 4m - .232/.321/.293
Alex Cora, 2y, 4m - .253/.306/.404
Mark DeRosa, 3y, 13m - .288/.369/.433
Ray Durham, 2y 14m - .240/.306/.383
Marcus Giles 1y, 3.2m - .232/.303/.320
Adam Kennedy 3y, 10m - .220/.284/.287
Ramon MArtinez 1y, 850k - .195/.256/.232
Kaz Matsui  1y, 1.5m - .280/.319/.412
Aaron Miles 1y, 1m - .280/.325/.337
Jose Valentin 1y, 3.8m - .241/.302/.373

1 out of the 12 is unequivocally better than Royce Clayton.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#172448) #

I would really like to see JP make a push for a trade involving Michael Young over the off-season.

I think if we could offer a package involving Jesse Litsch and Adam Lind (or Reed Johnson, if they go for it) for Michael Young and maybe a mid-leve prospect in return. 

That would so never happen. As a DFW resident (but not particularly a Rangers fan), I can tell you -- and have previously on this site -- that Young is legitimately seen as a Ranger For Life in the same way Jeter is a Yankee. Young is more to the Rangers than their All-Star shortstop -- with the trade of Teixeira and the complete collapse of Hank Blalock, he is The Face of the The Franchise. And you want to offer a platoon outfielder and a kid pitcher (who, as someone has said here recently, is at an all-time high value) for him AND a prospect? Even if that was remotely fair value -- and it's not -- there's no way Jon Daniels makes that deal.

And oh by the way, that would leave the Rangers with who at shortstop? They did the Royce Clayton thing eight years ago.

PaulE-O - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#172449) #
the suggestion of A-rod coming to Toronto is absurd
Lefty - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#172450) #
If filling the middle infield hole is going to be troublesome the team should look a little longer term at the catching situation, and just go with J-Mac at short. His defense really does make up for a portion of his offensive weaknesses.

Maybe Ricciardi should be kicking the tires of Gerald Laird who might just be available with the Rangers trade for Saltalamacchia. The 27 year old Laird has had a disappointing offensive season. However he is young and has shown positive defensive and offensive capabilities. Last I checked he was throwing out about 40% of runners. He also has nine bunt singles this year, which looks awful nice in the tool kit. Laird has power potential to regularly hit 15 homeruns a season.

To me its time to find out if Thigpen will be a viable option behind the plate. And this team doesn't seem to be doing that. It appears that they are content to go with Greg Zaun as the primary backstop again next season and I just think thats to big a gamble.

I'd be very interested to hear how Ricciardi views next seasons catching situation. So far the team has not displayed any indication of confidence in Thigpen. If he is not going to catch then they had better get someone and I'd like to see a longterm solution in someone like Laird.




Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#172451) #
Now, a Laird deal I could see. I wouldn't want to see it happen if I were a Ranger fan -- he's really good defensively and seems on the verge of an offensive bustout. Texas has Saltalamacchia playing 1B (at least yesterday and this afternoon) and Botts DHing, so I think they may be sticking with Laird. But catching depth is an organizational strength, so I guess it's possible. My guess is Daniels would want Litsch and a prospect, to start discussions.
Ron - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#172452) #
JP on Fan 590:

- With all the injuries, it's hard to include Chacin in this year's plan
- AJ should be making a rehab start at AAA on Monday
- When asked if Gibby would be back next year, he said yeah and mentioned how he has done a good job with the all injuries

Getting rid of Clayton is pretty interesting to me. Clayton was coming off his hottest month (.325/.364/.400) at the plate. His overall batting line is close to what he produced last season and his career average. Clayton has produced exactly what you would expect when the Jays signed him but for some reason it wasn't good enough. Perhaps the Jays front office were hoping he would produce like he did in the 1999 season. You have to figure, sooner or later, the SS merry-go-round will come to an end and a long term solution will be obtained.
tstaddon - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#172453) #
Jesse Litsch would have to be considered our Number 1 pitching prospect

If that's the case (personally, my money's on Cecil with prayers being said nightly for Ricky Romero), it's more a (damning) statement about our farm system than Litsch's talent. I love the kid, think he's a gamer and a great story. But there is absolutely no way what he's doing is sustainable. Even against Tampa Bay the other night, several of his balls were just crushed. Fortunately, they were right at people and, on the one that wasn't, Vernon made a fine play.

This off-season, the kid's value is going to be at its peak and if JP can turn him and some scrap into a shortstop (Hall or even Renteria), he should not hesitate to. Renteria likely earns A-type FA status after '08, so even the draft picks he'd bring would be more valuable than a guy who, long-term, profiles as a 5th starter in the AL East. Love the kid, but there's no clearer crystal ball than a K/BB ratio of 18/17 in 49.1 innings.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#172454) #
I love JMac's defense (although I wonder whether he's having a career year defensively. I don't remember him being this good last year, and he is 32). But I don't think we should be misled by the .275 BA. His career OBP is .281 and his career SLG is .319. Folks, that is not good enough for a starting shortstop in the AL.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#172456) #
Laird is interesting.  He throws well.  He has hit better on the road than at home over his career, which makes sense because he's a right-handed and the Ballpark favours left-handed hitters. 

With Thigpen, Zaun, Diaz, Jeroloman, Arencibia and Collins, catching is probably not a long-term need of the organization, but if he can be obtained at reasonable cost, Laird could play a role.  I guess that we will see how Thigpen does in his trial and Texas will be undoubtedly watching Salty's trial, and there may be a match in the off-season.

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#172459) #

Love the kid, but there's no clearer crystal ball than a K/BB ratio of 18/17 in 49.1 innings.

If you think that's his true level of ability, then yeah. But in AA this year, he was at 46/14 in 61 innings, in two starts at AAA he was at 10/3 in 15, and in his second tour of duty with the Jays he's at 15/10 in 30 - not spectacular, but a significant improvement on 7/3 in17.2 May innings. His rates were pretty good at A and AA last year, too.

He's not going to be Roy Halladay, but he's not Chris Michalak, either.

CaramonLS - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#172462) #
Free Agent 2b signed this past offseason + current numbers

You forgot Ronnie Belliard:  .298/.343/.424
Lefty - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#172463) #
Fair comments Mike. I would only say that the team needs to consider its options with regard to any of the named prospects.

Do any of them project to have the upside of Laird? As I recall all of these guys have a few warts and those are generally concerns about whether they project to have a career behind the plate. The other aspect to consider is that Ricciardi says this team is built to compete next season through 2010. What if the Greg Zaun we are seeing this season is even less productive next season, both behind the plate and with the bat? Will any of these guys be ready for 300 or so AB's next season.

I'd say the juries out on that one, but as previously mentioned. Lets put Thigpen to work and asses whether he is that guy or not.


Laird could be a BlueJay for the next four or five years while we wait on the likes of Arenciba to take on the role of primary backstop.
AWeb - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#172464) #
I won't miss Clayton, and although I miss him no ill will, I hope his career ends on this reasonably hot streak. The problem with the Clayton signing, as many have noted, is that he worked out essentially exactly as we all expected: Below average defense + predictably bad offense. The Jays clearly need to pick up a Shortstop from somewhere, or move Hill there and find a second baseman. Trade, sign, re-animate the dead....something needs to be done if J.P. is serious about sticking with basically the same lineup elsewhere. The Jays, lacking any star level performances (Rios is close, but certainly not an upper-echelon player yet), need reasonable performance from every position to have a decent offense. Boston gets by with Lugo stinking it up this year because Ortiz and Ramirez (both down slightly this year, but still top-10 hitters in the league) make up for it. Toronto has no source of "overflow" goodness, where one player's greatness makes up for another's suckiness.

J.P. seems to think that he can find an above average player for every position, or more delusionally, that he already has most of them. This is reflected in the drafting strategy in past years, taking mostly college players. This team is the one JP wants to put together, he has said as much himself.  Aside from SS and Catcher, at each position it was reasonable to think they'd could above average production. That was the roll of the dice he took this year, and it didn't pay off (1B, CF, LF, C, DH all well below where most hoped). Next year, with this many poor seasons and injuries behind the players, the chances get slimmer of getting lucky. And the pitching isn't likely to get much better. A .500 team that is heavy on the pitching...I don't remember the last time Toronto's strength was pitching.

ahitisahit - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#172465) #

Laird wouldn't throw out 40% of baserunners with this pitching staff. But perhaps his late throws might not make it to the base in 2 or 3 hops.

I thought Stairs was a great acquisition in the off season, even at the time. I love the token Canadian to throw some love to. He played really well in Overbay's absence, I'd love to see him getting a few more AB's.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#172468) #
Lefty, I am confident that Joel Collins will be a significantly better offensive and defensive catcher than Gerald Laird in 2 and 1/2 years if they give him a chance.  I may be the only one on the planet who thinks that aside from Collins' immediate family...
Squiggy - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#172469) #
But I don't think we should be misled by the .275 BA. His career OBP is .281 and his career SLG is .319. Folks, that is not good enough for a starting shortstop in the AL.

Agree totally. But the problem is that the FA and in-house minor-league cupboard is truly bare. This is one glaring area where JP needs to get creative and give something to get something. For example, the Angels have Cabrera, Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar all either on the team or very close to ML readiness. The famously risk-averse GM of the Angels does not trade his prospects, so JP could target Cabrera. His contract is about $8 million/yr., expires after '08 and he is not a huge dropoff from J-Mac in defense. For a team built to win now, like the Jays allegedly are, he might be a perfect solution. Could he be had for Lind and a pitcher? Who knows.

The point is not so much to say "get Cabrera", as to point out that it's likely that only trades are going to fill this hole in 2008. JP showed he can do this type of deal with the Glaus and Overbay trades, so let's all root for some youngsters like Litsch and Lind to keep improving their value this year.

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#172470) #

For example, the Angels have Cabrera, Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar all either on the team or very close to ML readiness.

I think you're being overly generous with respect to Aybar. He's had 197 MLB at-bats and has hit to the whopping tune of 236/280/268. Last year in AAA, he had a .327 OBP.

This year and next, at least, I'm not convinced hed be much better than Rey Olmedo.

FisherCat - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#172471) #

I don't fault JP for the signing of Clayton.  All he did was look at what FA's were available at the position and leaned towards getting a seasoned veteran to maybe inject some stability to the position.  Plus he hoped that maybe he'd catch lightning in a bottle like the Red Sox did with Alex Gonzalez last year.  I mean did anyone in the Sox organization (or the rest of baseball) expect him to hit .270+ for most of the year and play flawless defense?  I think JP was hoping for similar luck from Royce and didn't get it.

As for what next?  I think that JP is getting dangerously close to having to do what the Celtics just did...use the big chip kids you drafted to make a big splash with a trade.  Because both ownership and fans will be asking for quick results VERY soon.

The biggest issue (obviously) is the offense as a whole.  There are no .300 hitters this year like there were last year and there seem to be more K's this year than last (does anyone have the number from last year thru this many games?).  So not only are there more outs being made, but they're unproductive outs.

I wonder how Wells would've performed if this was his contract year?  Hmmmmm.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#172472) #
The LAA affiliates all play in very favourable hitter's environments.  Casey Kotchman's major and minor league records give you a flavour of the extent of the discount.  The only thing about Erick Aybar's minor league record that screams "decent hitter" is his low K rate.  He is young and may develop, of course.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#172473) #
I was pretty amazed at the way Texas handled Laird in the spring. I saw the Rangers play spring training games three times over the span of two weeks and Laird played every inning of all three games that I saw, save for one inning when Quiroz got in. And I also read all the box scores in the Arizona papers everyday. Laird was in there almost everday for 90 percent of the games during those two weeks, which was insane... especially given the heat in the last week (90-100 F every day). I wouldn't be surprised if he was worn out by the end of spring. It's no wonder he hit .176 in April.
Banya - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#172475) #

I'll admit that I find the post July 31 trade deadline rules a little confusing; but is it all possible that Thomas is placed on waivers and claimed in August? Somebody please tell me that remains a possibilty.

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#172476) #

The only thing about Erick Aybar's minor league record that screams "decent hitter" is his low K rate.  He is young and may develop, of course.

Aybar's numbers say "slowly but surely" to me; the sort of hitter you really shouldn't rush, who should play more than 81 okay games at AAA. He reminds me of Cesar Izturis, in a way - Izturis had a very nice season at A+, but the Jays jumped him up to AAA. After a season and a half of pretty poor hitting, he was in Toronto. (See also: Lopez, Felipe)

FisherCat - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#172477) #

I'd be willing to bet that the Blue Jays already put him on the waiver wire and he made it thru unscathed.  Meaning he's anyones for the taking.

But I believe the way it works is that every team puts most of their players on the wire and, since its revokable, if someone puts a claim in.  The team with the player has the right to demand a deal with the claim team or pull him back.  So that's why marginally inviting players like Thomas make it thru, because teams don't want to get "stuck" with them if they don't really want him.

portnoy - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#172479) #
I agree with Ryan Day that Aybar looks a lot like Izturis.  But Izturis has had only one decent season in the majors; for the rest he's been terrible (he's below .300 OBP for his career).  I wouldn't give much up for Aybar, because I don't see him being a definite upgrade from Johnny Mac or Olmedo.  Somehow, JP needs to snag a bigger fish.  Honestly, I'm not sure I can take another season with no production at short.
GregJP - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#172480) #
If that's the case (personally, my money's on Cecil with prayers being said nightly for Ricky Romero), it's more a (damning) statement about our farm system than Litsch's talent. I love the kid, think he's a gamer and a great story. But there is absolutely no way what he's doing is sustainable. Even against Tampa Bay the other night, several of his balls were just crushed. Fortunately, they were right at people and, on the one that wasn't, Vernon made a fine play.

A voice of reason and sanity.

McGowan and Marcum are most likely the real deal, while the jury is still out on Janssen as a starter, and IMO Litsch is doing it with smoke and mirrors.

Let's hope he can hold it together (with luck and great defense) and have some value as a trading chip in the off season.

I'm in a hard core fantasy league with a 16X25 minor league system and 40 man major league rosters (that's 1040 total players) and Litsch is a FA in this league.  Sometimes we tend to look at our players with perhaps a smidgen of bias.

As far as ARod and Young, you guys are smoking too much of the wacky tobaccy.


CaramonLS - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#172481) #
As far as ARod and Young, you guys are smoking too much of the wacky tobaccy.

Well, throwing money at the problem is the only way we're making the playoffs in the foreseeable future.  Give me Arod + Posada + a 10 million $ SP in the off season and we're in the playoffs, and we make our division opponent significantly weaker in the process.
GregJP - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#172482) #
Well, throwing money at the problem is the only way we're making the playoffs in the foreseeable future.  Give me Arod + Posada + a 10 million $ SP in the off season and we're in the playoffs, and we make our division opponent significantly weaker in the process.

The only problem with this theory is that there is no way in a million years that ARod is going to want to play in Canada.  He's going to probably be the new home run king in 5 or 6 years and I see him wanting to do that in a major US market.

It's similar in some ways to what is happening with my home town Edmonton Oilers.  Many guys don't want to play here because it is perceived as a hick town in the sticks with extremely cold weather.  It's not even so much the players, but the wives that don't want to live here.

To some degree the Jays face the same problem when it comes to truly elite free agents.  Sometimes having the cash to spend just isn't enough.  (eg Lilly and Meche)
CeeBee - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#172483) #
Interesting that Roberts is starting at short for Syracuse tonight and Klosterman for New Hampshire. Anyone willing to bet that Olmedo is on a plane to Toronto and Santos is heading to Syracuse?
GregJP - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#172484) #
Ricky Romero has a 2 hitter going with 6 K's after 5 innings tonight.

Maybe he's finally healthy and going to put together a few quality outings.
seeyou - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#172485) #

The only problem with this theory is that there is no way in a million years that ARod is going to want to play in Canada.  He's going to probably be the new home run king in 5 or 6 years and I see him wanting to do that in a major US market.

I'm not so sure about that.  If I was facing the media pressure that A-Rod is right now, I might welcome the move to a smaller market where he could remind the Yankee fans of what they didn't appreciate on a regular basis.  Remember, Roger Clemens moved from Boston to Toronto as a free agent near the height of his career.

I agree it's highly unlikely that A-Rod is a Jay next season, but  I could see Toronto having some definite appeal from his perspective.  Plus, we know that there are certain *ahem* extra-curricular activities A-Rod enjoys in the T-Dot.
TamRa - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#172486) #

I'm not a pessimist and I didn't think any of them would work out with the possible exception of Zam being worth something NEXT year.

Stairs is actually suprising me that any of them turned out well.

Newton - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#172487) #

Re: 2nd baseman available last offseason

Belliard was the guy I had specifically in mind.   Note that 2nd baseman are far cheaper on the free agent market than SS's.

Given the cost of big league SS's and paucity of options in the coming offseason it is foolhardy not to move Hill there.  

Michael - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#172488) #
Count me amongst those hoping JP signs Arod in the offseason as our SS for a few years (able to move to 3B if necessary when Glaus shifts to 1b/dh).  He is worth the money he'll get, unlike the Gil Meche's of the world.

Speaking of JP, did people see: Baseball Prospectus's Baseball's New Underclass

which put the Jays as one of the teams likely to be with the Kansas City's of the worlds as a never competitive team moving forward.  One of the reasons was an assessment of JP that ranked him as the 12th best GM in the AL ahead of only Bavasi (Sea) and Flanagan (Bal).  Our farm system (ability to draft and improve players, not who is actually there) was also ruled as essentially tied for 3rd worse tied with KC and ahead of White Sox and Bal.  The only good news was our market size which is supposed to make us the 4th biggest market in the AL behind only NY, La, and Bos.


scottt - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#172489) #
This is great news. Offensively, having Olmedo batting 9th isn't going to make a huge diffference. However, if he can get on base, he might eventually be moved to the 1-2 spot where he could make a difference.

I've seen Thigpen gun down two runners. Anyone has his current tally?

Last time I checked Rios was in the top 10 in the AL in 10 offensive categories. Without him, the Jays would be the White Sox.

The Jays are standing pat and besides the Yankees who are slowly ginding they way up, nobody in the league is really cruising right now.

Anyone think the Yankees are happy to be paying Roger Clemens a million a game for a 3-5 record in 10 starts?

Betemit has now 2 at-bat for the Yankees--at short stop of all places--and one of them is a 3 runs homer.

VBF - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#172490) #
Great news. I had an unverified hunch that Clayton suffered from Shea Hillenbrand syndrome.

1. I don't believe the Jays can find a DH that can put up .820+ OPS numbers next year, including a .370+ OBP.

2. I believe Frank Thomas will do that next year as he is doing this year.

3. I don't believe that extra year of 10 million in the Thomas contract will cause the Jays to restrain from being players in acquiring an expensive shortstop or catcher.

So unless a similar situation occurs this year with injuries and Lind or whomever gets significant playing time and absolutely shines, I'm cooking Frank Thomas pie until 2009.



VBF - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#172491) #
The only problem with this theory is that there is no way in a million years that ARod is going to want to play in Canada.  He's going to probably be the new home run king in 5 or 6 years and I see him wanting to do that in a major US market.


Not that I believe that it will happen, and I have to say that because people want to crucify others for dreaming, but A-Rod would have no bones about coming to Canada. He has the assurance that he will not be followed around by not just sports people, but celebrity paparazzi. His wife can wear whatever shirt she wants to wear and it won't make front page news. A-Rod enjoys hitting at the Rogers Centre, loves the Toronto nightlife and restaurants and the multi-culturalism which was one of the reasons he enjoyed New York City. And he can put up MVP numbers and shove it down the throats of New Yorkers throughout the country. He also knows that he's one of 5 players in baseball that when added to the Toronto Blue Jays make them a near lock to make the playoffs. He would have everything he could have had in New York, but without the horrid media scrutinizing his every move.

I agree with Caramon. If you're going to play the spending money game, spend it on players you know are going to get you in the playoffs.
CaramonLS - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#172492) #
It's similar in some ways to what is happening with my home town Edmonton Oilers.  Many guys don't want to play here because it is perceived as a hick town in the sticks with extremely cold weather.  It's not even so much the players, but the wives that don't want to live here.

With the notable exception of course that only one of these things is really true, that being Edmonton is the land of mullets and Siberian weather.  Arod has seen more than enough of TO to draw his own conclusions about the weather, where as in Hockey, you're lucky to see a city more than once in a year, and it usually falls in the middle of winter.

I personally think TO gives Arod exactly what he might want - a chance to tell off the Yankees ~20 times a season and a much friendlier environment to play.
CaramonLS - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#172493) #
1. I don't believe the Jays can find a DH that can put up .820+ OPS numbers next year, including a .370+ OBP.

Pena and Young both are putting up those type of numbers... and then some.  Doing it at league min numbers too.  Of course, they will be getting some nice raises next season, but I wouldn't expect either one to earn more than half of what Thomas makes.  Both can also bat left handed.
slitheringslider - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#172494) #
I think the reason why Thigpen has been playing a variety of positions thus far this season is because of the excellent play of Robinson Diaz at AA. I feel like the Blue Jays' brass believes Diaz is the Jays' catcher of the future, and are developing Thigpen to be the second baseman for the future, while moving Aaron Hill back to short. It is just pure speculation, but the developments sure make sense.

I am very dissappointed to hear JP's confident in John Gibbons. After numerous disputes with players on his team (Hillenbrand, Lilly, Tower's outbreak and Burnett's apparent displeasures), it seems to me that players lack respect for their skip. I am sure players have disagreed with moves made by managers like Jim Leyland, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, or Tony La Russa, but you don't hear about anyone outwardly showing signs of disagreement with their manager. I don't know how much of a role a manager has in a team's success, but I believe John Gibbons does not have the leadership acumen to maximize the talent of this group of players. I don't care if the Jays don't do anything this summer, they need to fire John Gibbons.

greenfrog - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#172496) #
Without him, the Jays would be the White Sox.

If the Jays had drafted Tulowitzki instead of the lesser-rated Romero, the Jays would be Cleveland.
GregJP - Thursday, August 02 2007 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#172498) #
Tulowitzki

.268.343.397


JB21 - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#172499) #

Ummm ... where did you get those numbers from?

Pretty sure he's a .275 .350 .424 hitter in 2007

ANationalAcrobat - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 12:33 AM EDT (#172500) #
Looks like Tulo's career numbers. When we're talking about a 23 year old rookie shortstop, I'd feel comfortable dismissing those first 96 at bats and looking exclusively at 2007. I've also heard that he's excellent defensively. It's still too early to judge Romero and Tulo, but Tulo is looking awfully good...
3RunHomer - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 07:41 AM EDT (#172503) #

A young shortstop to target. He seems to be undervalued by the Cubbies:

Ronny Cedeno - last season was a wash-out, but he was only 23. He had an OBP over .400 and SLG over .500 in AAA in 2005 and this season too (really).

Huge upside potential, but his struggles in MLB so far should keep the asking price low. What's not to like?

DepecheJay - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#172506) #
The people that say there's no way A-Rod would play in Canada remind me of the same people who said the same thing about Clemens.  While Roger didn't take the Jays to the playoffs, I certainly believe that an everyday player the caliber of A-Rod would make the Jays one of the most feared teams in the bigs with the rotation the way it is now.  It's a pipe dream but you can't rule it out from happening.  Who knows, maybe Ted wants to make THE SPLASH that everyone remembers.  Insane contract, all that jazz, but if the Jays made the playoffs certainly no one would complain.

He's the guy I'll be holding out hope for in the off-season.

Mike Green - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 09:27 AM EDT (#172507) #
Check out the Iowa individual hitting lines. It's a hitter's park in a hitter's league.  Cedeno has probably made some progress from his double A, but I'd still peg him as perhaps a .260/.320/.400 hitter in the majors.  If he can field the position well, that still has significant value.
timpinder - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#172508) #

Here's a funny article from Hardball Times that pokes fun at the Jays' offense:

www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/a-rod-traded-to-blue-jays-for-marcum-and-mcgowan

Mike Green - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#172512) #
Olmedo's anticipated promotion to Toronto is confirmed in a Syracuse game story from today.
lexomatic - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#172513) #
one thign i haven't seen mentioned so far is buying low on tejada
i realize he's got 3 years after this one probaly 15-16 milllion
but he's been hurt this year and not as good.
his fielding isn't great but he certainly wouldn't hurt the team and his offense - even at reduced 2007 levels- woudl put him as a top3 all time jays shortstop (the only one who would probably consistantly match up to tony fernandez for production).
this involves taking on a huge amount of salary and possibly giving up lots of prospects but:
with the injury and performance there's a good chance of getting him for less.

tejada 1/2 season
78 305 94 13 0 8 42 46 2 0 32 20 .308 .360 .430
.274 eqa 5.6 warp3 (13, 10, 10 last 3 years)

clayton/mcdonald
clayton
69 189 48 14 0 1 23 12 2 1 50 14 .254 .304 .344
.226 eqa 1.8 warp3

mcdonald
7 194 53 12 1 1 23 17 3 2 27 4 .273 .290 .361
.222 eqa 2.7 warp


it's not perfect but id look into it. it does coincide with the so called window of contention that jp's aimed for. it depends what baltimore is asking for.

i'd be happy with rentaria/laird acquisitions though too.
3RunHomer - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#172520) #
Re: Ronny Cedeno -- Iowa's a fine place to hit, but Cedeno's MLE stats from 2005 were .330/.373/.480 (from Ron Shandler's Baseball Forecaster). He's hitting better this year than in 2005, and has a higher OPS than Billy Butler and Adam Jones in the PCL. He's a *24-year-old shortstop* and a heck of a prospect.

Re: Tejada -- As the Batter's Box's lone Oriole fan, I think I can say that ain't happening. It's extremely unlikely he's traded in the division, and frankly the Jays don't have the hitting prospects to swap for him anyway. Besides all that, the Os are playing well enough post-All Star that a rebuild probably won't happen. Like the Jays, the Os will enter 2008 with most of the same players and hope that the young starting pitchers continue to improve.
Mike Green - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#172521) #
Ron Shandler is well-respected, but if you take a .355/.403/.518 hitter from a hitter's park in the PCL (Cedeno's 2005 line), there is no way the MLE should be anything like that.  That would be a credible translation from an average IL park.  You'll recall our discussions regarding hitting expectations for Olmedo; he's hit .280-.290 for years in the IL, and the question is whether that translates to .250 to .260 in MLB.
Mike Green - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#172522) #
But, Cedeno does have a good glove at short both according to subjective reports and his 2006 statistics. Whether he can be expected to hit .260/.320/.400 or better than that, he would be a valuable player and a significant improvement over any option that the Jays currently have.  I wonder who the Cubs would want for him.
Edmonton Marc - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#172526) #

I am very dissappointed to hear JP's confident in John Gibbons. After numerous disputes with players on his team (Hillenbrand, Lilly, Tower's outbreak and Burnett's apparent displeasures), it seems to me that players lack respect for their skip. I am sure players have disagreed with moves made by managers like Jim Leyland, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, or Tony La Russa, but you don't hear about anyone outwardly showing signs of disagreement with their manager.

I think we hear about disagreements with Gibbons more than any other team, because we follow the Jays more than other teams.  My guess is this happens fairly often whenever you have competitive men together in the same room/bus/airplane/hotel for extended periods of time.  Even a winning team like the Brewers have dust-ups, like after last night's loss to the Mets:

"When the half-inning ended, Estrada and Yost got into a heated dispute in the tunnel leading from the dugout to the clubhouse. Infielder Tony Graffanino stepped between them while pitcher Ben Sheets and pitching coach Mike Maddux stood in front of Estrada. "

Sound familiar?  I think if you're going to call for Gibbons' firing, it should be for his managerial decisions, and not for any perceived rift between him and the players.

scottt - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#172528) #
I don't know about Tejada.

The Orioles weren't bothered by trading in their division when they relieved the Yankees of Wright.

There's so many holes on that team that they'd be crazy to hang to Tejada. Homeboy Texeira wants to play in Baltimore and they could free some money to sign him by trading Tejada for a couple of solid MLB ready prospect. Let's say Lind and League or Janssen.

Not that I think this will happen.
Chuck - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#172535) #

Sound familiar?  I think if you're going to call for Gibbons' firing, it should be for his managerial decisions, and not for any perceived rift between him and the players.

I don't know. If a manager doesn't own the room then he's not much use. Baltimore turfed Perlozzo for that very reason. That said, from my perch 20,000 feet away, it seems that Gibbons does own the room, and that the dust-ups have been isolated incidents (though arguably more numerous than is reasonable).

Homeboy Texeira wants to play in Baltimore

I think homeboy Texeira will be happy to lay his head in whatever town Boras can scare up the fattest 9-figure paycheque. And the taste of winning he may enjoy while in Atlanta may put him off tier 2 teams entirely.

FranklyScarlet - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#172536) #

I agree Edmonton. 

Hillenbrand has shown us who is is at every Major League team stop.  Even after his  nonsense was handled in house, Shea was still chirping about it at Spring Trainng.  Everyone ignored him and I guess his next team decided to do the same.  Good decision.

Lilly lost a 7-0 lead and then had the audacity to behave as he did,  on the mound no less, with his comments to Gibbons in full view of the cameras.  No one's ever happy to be pulled (even tho he stunk!) but  tell me why is Gibbons getting the criticism for that?  Towers, the same thing.  He mouthed off, unfortunately not man-to-man....and Gibbons responded professionally, assuring us it was because of Tower's competitive nature. 

Jimmy Leyland left baseball years ago because he couldn't get the veteran players to do things his way.  He wasn't having any fun managing anymore and he had had it.  Now look what happens with the young guys who are following with enthusiasm.  You think the players like every decision he makes?

If you read more about the Milwaukee dugout dispute, you find out that Yost was calling the TEAM to task for their underachieving for the past 8 or 9 games.  Estrada thought he had directed the comments to one player in particular, and came to his defense.  Yost then praised Estrada for sticking up for his teammate bit reiterated it was directed at everyone.   Nothing wrong with a little fire.

Seems like Gibbons could be out of town and still get the blame when everything doesn't go our way. 

 

MrPurple - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#172540) #
The latest notes on the Jays site say they picked up Hector Luna from the Indians via the wavier wire.
westcoast dude - Friday, August 03 2007 @ 11:44 PM EDT (#172546) #
Picking up ARod makes perfect sense. It's not about the money, it's his chance to do the Clemens thing. Ricciardi may not understand that many Americans these days would actually like to move to Canada, now that the Empire has become a  nasty, crumbling disaster movie waiting to happen. 
And always the marvel--to which the Canadians seemed insensible--was that on one side of an imaginery line should be Safety, Law, Honour, and Obedience, and on the other frank, brutal decivilization; and that, despite this, Canada should be impressed by any aspect whatever of the United States.  --Rudyard Kipling, Something of Myself, 1937

BigTimeRoyalsFan - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 02:19 AM EDT (#172550) #
one thign i haven't seen mentioned so far is buying low on tejada

Homeboy Texeira wants to play in Baltimore and they could free some money to sign him by trading Tejada for a couple of solid MLB ready prospect. Let's say Lind and League or Janssen.

Lexomatic and scottt - http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20070716235317190 - first post :)


VBF - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#172573) #
Homeboy Texeira wants to play in Baltimore and they could free some money to sign him by trading Tejada for a couple of solid MLB ready prospect. Let's say Lind and League or Janssen.

Angelos wants fair value. That would be Rios, McGowan, and Accardo.

You're never going to deal with that guy.
BigTimeRoyalsFan - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#172577) #
Angelos wants fair value. That would be Rios, McGowan, and Accardo.

VBF, why do you insist on spewing crap? Rios is already a better hitter than Tejada, so let's forget about the fact he's controlled by arbitration (as opposed to Miggy's 13m next year) and that you included 2 of the best young arms in all of baseball, both of whom also earn peanuts.
scottt - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#172578) #
Fair value back in 2002.

Last year, the Angels tried to get Tejada for Ervin Santana and Erick Aybar.
He's not the RBI guy he used to be.  You gotta like the numbers his substitute put up.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to unload him before the Aug 31 deadline.



James W - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#172579) #
You forgot to turn on your sarcasm detector.  Or more likely, VBF believes that Baltimore would demand such a package for Tejada.
VBF - Saturday, August 04 2007 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#172581) #
BTRF disappoints me once again, to no surprise. James has it right.

It was widely reported that Angelos had nixed a Tejada for Oswalt trade. It may have been a year since, but Janssen and Lind won't do that deal.
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