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Notes from Nowhere QOTD: Rank 'em yourownself ... Jays' Top 10?

The season is nearing its close -- 11 games remain. The magic number for both AL East and Wild Card elimination for the Jays is just three. The questions  of interest are mostly numerical -- do either Doc or AJ (or both) have two more wins left in them to get to 20? Does anybody get to .300, to 20 homers, or even to 80 RBI? Not really captivating stuff. So let's try out a Question of the Day ...

Rank the Blue Jays Top 10 Most Valuable Players, in order. Explain your rankings, even the smart-ass versions. Ready? I'll start you off with one; you fill in the next nine (yes, this might be harder than you think!) ...



1. Roy Halladay (duh!)
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Some of the names you'll probably use -- Wells, Overbay, Rios, Eckstein, Stairs -- are no real surprise; some -- Litsch, Inglett, Marcum -- might be categorized as real surprises. There are names that will appear on some ballots but not others (Barajas, Lind, Ryan); then there are names we might have fully expected to be near ballot's top back in April that probably won't be (Rolen, Accardo) -- but that's your call.

The real trick is in how you'll rank them. (P.S., no votes for Cito -- this is players only!) Ready? Go!

Posted by Mick Doherty on Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 01:29 PM EDT.
QOTD: Rank 'em yourownself ... Jays' Top 10? | 22 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#192528) #
Hrm. Good one.
1) Halladay
2) Rios - was surprised how good he has done in the end
3) Lind - saved us from more Stewart time
4) Scutaro - super-sub
5) Inglett - other super-sub
6) Overbay - good comeback year
7) Rolen - solid D, solid O
8) Marcum - hope he is healthy
9) Litsch - dang good 150+ IP
10) AJ - finally above 100 for ERA+ plus 200+ IP

Didn't put on relievers as they rarely are as valuable as hitters or starters. Downs could've been there except for the blowup when we really, really needed him. Also thought about Carlson but 54 2/3 IP just isn't enough.

For anti-top 10 I'd put David Eckstein first just due to injuring Hill :P
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92-93 - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#192529) #
Why does Batter's Box's server always suck?

1. Roy Halladay
2. AJ Burnett
3. Alex Rios
4. Scott Downs
5. Vernon Wells
6. Lyle Overbay
7. Marco Scutaro
8. Jesse Carlson
9. Shaun Marcum
10. Jesse Litsch
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ayjackson - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#192530) #
  1. Roy Halladay
  2. Scott Downs
  3. Shaun Marcum
  4. Jesse Carlson
  5. BJ Ryan
  6. AJ Burnett
  7. Adam Lind
  8. Travis Snider
  9. Joe Inglett
  10. Jesse Litsch

....at least, so says WPA

 

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greenfrog - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#192531) #
1. Halladay
2. AJ
3. Rios
4. Wells
5. Marcum
6. Downs
7. Litsch
8. Carlson
9. Inglett
10. Scutaro
* Honourable mention: Lind, BJ Ryan, Overbay

My reasoning?

- Roy: stats speak for themselves
- AJ: solid year, 200+ innings, 18 wins, numbers would be even better had he not been missing a fingernail for a month or so
- Rios/Wells: cornerstone players on this team, but neither has outstanding stats. Rios gets the edge for more games played and SBs
- Marcum: very good stats, despite the injury and tough stretch
- Downs: unbelievable stats before he injured his ankle
- Litsch: quietly put together an effective year in the rotation
- Carlson: great year from out of nowhere
- Inglett/Scutaro: middling offensive stats but both were versatile players who saved the Jays (and their fans) from the likes of Royce Clayton, Hector Luna and Russ Adams
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Matthew E - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#192532) #
When I first read this I thought you meant *all-time*, not just this year. That would have been tough.

For 2008:

1. Halladay - even without anything else, he threw 231 innings with 8 CG up to this point. If he hadn't, who would have?
2. Wells - the best hitter on the team. He shouldn't be, but he is.
This is already getting tough. Honestly, nobody's been that valuable.
3.-4. Burnett and Litsch, for being in the rotation basically all year and pitching well at times.
5.-6. Overbay and Rios, for being in the lineup basically all year and hitting well at times.
7.-9. Scutaro, Barajas and Inglett, for filling in better than anyone thought they could.
10.-11. Downs and Carlson, for pitching in more than 60 games each with an ERA under 2.
12. Lind, who would rank higher if he had had more playing time of this quality.

Did anyone notice that Travis Snider has more hits for the Jays this year than Frank Thomas did?

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John Northey - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#192535) #
Now that is cool, Snider catching up to Thomas in various counting stats. Snider has played 3 fewer games, 19 fewer AB's than big Frank but has 3 more hits, 3 more doubles, 1 fewer HR, 3 fewer RBI, walked 8 fewer times, K'd two fewer times, and has an OPS+ more than double Frank's (142 vs 70).

As to another top 10, howsabout by Win Shares?
  1. Halladay 21
  2. Rios 19
  3. Overbay 14
  4. Wells 13
  5. Scutaro 12
  6. Barajas 11
  7. Marcum 11
  8. Burnett 10
  9. Inglett 10
  10. Downs 10
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Magpie - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#192536) #
1. Halladay - wow, that was easy. And a long drop-off until...

2. Rios - his season mirrors the Jays season, and after the hot second half it's not all that bad
3. Wells - the best hitter in 2008. Despite missing large chunks of time, is still leading or near the lead in some counting stats.
4. Overbay - see Rios
5.  Burnett - 200 average innings has value, and somehow it's more valuable the way AJ does it. When he gets beat - and all pitchers get beat - he gets pounded, which drives down his numbers
6. Lind - filled the team's biggest hole, and bonus points for arriving at the same moment that the team got its act together
7. Scutaro - filled every hole, chipped in with the bat
8. Downs - only 70 innings, but very very good ones
9. Marcum - very effective, but don't you have to worry about his durability going forward?
10. Litsch - not sold on him yet, but he gets it done more often than not


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FisherCat - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#192537) #
  1. Doc
  2. Lind
  3. AJ
  4. Carlson
  5. Scutaro
  6. Inglett
  7. Litsch
  8. Ryan
  9. Marcum
  10. Snider

Lind for energizing the offense in June; Carlson for easing the loss of Janssen & Accardo; Scutaro for filling in basically from opening day on; Inglett for being the 2008 version of Reed Johnson; Litsch for basically performing as expected; Ryan for a remarkable TJ recovery; Marcum for his pre DL performance AND Snider for making September memorable and giving us hope for his bat in 2009 and beyond!

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Mick Doherty - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#192538) #
NO love, not even a measly 10th-place vote somewhere, for the irascible Matty Stairs?
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Magpie - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#192540) #
I am a little surprised to see that the guy who leads the team in homers and may end up leading the team in RBIs before we're done can't even crack the Top 10 on a number of ballots. Did he kill someone's dog?
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Wildrose - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#192542) #
Downs could've been there except for the blowup when we really, really needed him

I'm surprised, many don't seem to be aware that Down's has been pitching with an injured ankle.

When he twisted the ankle, Downs was off seven days and since his return he hasn't been the same guy.

Personally I'm cutting him some slack.
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Mick Doherty - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#192543) #

Using the standard MLB MVP scoring method (14-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 points per spot), after XX ballots posted, here are your Jay MVPs so far. Keep voting!

Rank. Name Total points (Total number of votes)

  1. Halladay 112 (8)
  2. Burnett 49 (8)
  3. Rios 48 (6)
  4. Wells 37 (5)
  5. Scutaro 32 (7)
  6. Overbay 31 (5)
  7. Marcum 27 (7)
  8. Lind 26 (4)
  9. Downs 25.5 (6)
  10. Carlson 20.5 (5)
  11. Litsch 20 (7)
  12. Inglett 19 (6)
  13. Ryan 9 (2)
  14. Barajas 8 (2)
  15. Snider 4 (2)
  16. Rolen 4 (1)

All eight first-place votes so far are to Halladay (again -- duh!) ... Burnett is the only player other than Halladay to appear on every ballot so far ... Wells is third in points despite being left off nearly half the ballots entirely ... 16 different players have votes -- is that a sign of depth or weakness? ... Litsch, Marcum and Scutaro are the only players on all but one ballot -- what kind of odds could you have gotten on that trifecta in March?

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CeeBee - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#192546) #

1. Halliday

2. Rios

3. Burnett

4. Wells

5. Downs

6. Marcum

7. Litsch

8. Scutaro

9. Overbay

10. Lind

Injuries hurt Wells big time or he'd easily be #2 and a lot closer to Roy. If Lind had played all year and hit about the same he could have been my # 3 or #4.

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Dave Till - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#192547) #
1. Halladay
2. Rios
3. Wells
4. Ryan
5. Burnett
6. Marcum
7. Litsch
8. Overbay
9. Downs
10. Lind

I'm surprised there's so little love for B.J. He hasn't had a great season by his own standards, but he hasn't blown too many saves. I ranked Downs lower (and Carlson not at all) because they were less indispensable - the Jays had lots of good middle relief guys.

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zeppelinkm - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#192556) #

1. Halladay
2. Downs
3. Burnett
4. Carlson
5. Marcum
6. Litsch
7. Rios
8. Wells
9. Overbay
10. Scutaro (for being much better defensively over the course of a full season then I think anyone anticipated, and not being bad with the bat)

Carlson for being a guy completely off the radar and being one of our absolutely most reliable pen guys this year. Anyone remember when he came into the game against the Rangers with the bases loaded and nobody out, in extra innings, and he proceeded to strike out 3 mofo's? Yeah, he basically secured a top 10 MVP vote the day that happened.

I think pitchers have to make up at least 60% of this list because geez, without our pitching, where would we really be this year?

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Twilight - Wednesday, September 17 2008 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#192561) #
1. Halladay
2. Wells
3. Lind
4. Burnett
5. Rios
6. Marcum
7. Scutaro
8. Barajas
9. Downs
10. Inglett
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Kieran - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#192563) #
1. Halladay
2. Rios
3. Wells
4. Marcum
5. Burnett
6. Downs
7. Overbay
8. Litsch
9. Scutaro
10. Lind

Carlson and Inglett just miss...
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Shaker Mo - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#192570) #

1. Halladay
2. Wells - pretty solid stats, unfortunate injuries notwithstanding
3. Lind - coinciding with other moves, his callup marked an important shift in the season. OPS near that of Rios and Overbay.
4. Rios - frustrating talent, but talent nonetheless.
5. Burnett - stayed healthy and solidified the rotation.
6. Gaston / Tenace - we'll never know if this team would have turned around under Gibbons, but it did under Gaston, so he gets the credit.
7. Downs - mullet or no mullet, a great season from Downs.
8. Scutaro - Much better player than I expected
9. Inglett - See above.
10. Litsch - Continued to impress.
10b. Ricciardi - On the whole, this season made JP look pretty ok. Lind, Marcum, Snider, Litsch coming on strong. Thomas looking less than stellar after his release. Burnett justifying his contract. Scutaro and Inglett playing key roles. Hiring Gaston.

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Chuck - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#192572) #

8. Scutaro - Much better player than I expected 

The Scutaro we saw is exactly the player the team signed, no more, no less. His offense was at his career rate (OPS+ of 84 compared to career 85) and he played multiple positions, as he has his whole career.

That said, my statement doesn't necessarily refute yours. I have no idea what you were expecting.

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John Brattain - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#192580) #
Jays' MVP...

1. Brad Wilkerson: He made Kevin Mench look good.

2. Jason Frasor: Saved our good pitchers from having to throw garbage innings.

3. Kevin Mench: Along with Brad Wilkerson allowed J.P. Ricciardi to have a clear conscience by not having to sign Barry Bonds.

4. David Eckstein: We never would have known how good Joe Inglett was had he not K.O.ed Aaron Hill.

5. Frank Thomas: His departure gave us something other than the Jays' crappy play to complain about in the early part of the season.

6. Shannon Stewart: Got rid of Reed Johnson which gave us something to gripe about after we were tired of bellyaching about Frank Thomas which took our minds off of the Jays crappy play in the middle of the season. Further, along with Mencherson--it enabled the Jays to allow Jim Edmonds sign with Chicago thereby giving the Cubs a more productive outfield. If they win the World Series, we can say it wouldn't have happened without J.P. Ricciardi's help which reassures us that he can indeed put together a post season team--even if it is in the wrong city.  

7. Jorge Valendia: Didn't hit into a double play all year.

8. Robinzon Diaz: Stayed off base thereby avoiding clogging them up with a lack of speed and was later parlayed into Jose Bautista who makes us appreciate Lyle Overbay's defense at first that much more.

9. Armando Benitiez: Allowed us to appreciate that there can be things even more nerve-wracking than watching B.J. Ryan pitch the ninth.

10. Hector Luna: 435 OPS+ 'nuff said--sample size be damned.

Best Regards

John

  
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Kieran - Thursday, September 18 2008 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#192588) #
Brilliant, sir. Brilliant.
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Mick Doherty - Friday, September 19 2008 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#192602) #

Okay, counting the gags and one sarcastic ballot, a total of 30 men (including three non-players) have received votes; Doc still has every serious first place vote, Rios has passed Burnett for second -- and STILL nary a single mention of Matty Stairs???

Your new Top 10 ...
Rank. Name Total points (Total number of votes)

  1. Halladay 196 (14)
  2. Rios 92 (12)
  3. Burnett 90 (14)
  4. Wells 81 (11)
  5. Overbay 55 (13)
  6. Marcum 55 (12)
  7. Downs 53.5 (12)
  8. Scutaro 45 (12)
  9. Lind 45 (9) 11818
  10. Litsch 36 (11)

Others receiving votes ...

  • Carlson 27.5 (6)
  • Inglett 22 (8)
  • Ryan 17 (3)
  • Barajas 11 (3)
  • Snider 4 (2)
  • Rolen 4 (1)
    ***
  • Wilkerson 14 (1)
  • Frasor 9 (1)
  • Mench 8 (1)
  • Eckstein 7 (1)
  • Thomas 6 (1)
  • Stewart 5 (1)
  • Valendia 4 (1)
  • Diaz 3 (1)
  • Benitez 2 (1)
  • Luna 1 (1)
  • Ricciardi DNP (1)
  • Gaston DNP (.5)
  • Tenace DNP (.5)
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QOTD: Rank 'em yourownself ... Jays' Top 10? | 22 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.