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Six games on the road, and I'm gonna make it home....oh, never mind

I've always had the somewhat lazy notion that a good team should play .500 ball on the road. Well, the 2025 Blue Jays have not met that standard, taking a 20-22 road record into this last trip before the All-Star Break. 

I can see a path to get there, but there's many a slip between... however it goes. The Blue Jays have climbed to the top of the AL East by being extremely ungracious hosts (32-16 at home). But just three weeks ago, the White Sox came into the RC with their not very frightening team and took two of three from the home side. They won the opener by kicking Spencer Turnbull and Mason Fluharty around, to win a bullpen game 7-1; they won the finale behind a strong performance by Adrian Houser, who's kind of Chicago's own Eric Lauer (teammates in the Milwaukee rotation a few years back who had since fallen on the Hard Times.)

But we know what really happened. It was all my fault, of course. I was to blame. I admit it freely. In the run-up to that series, I spent several paragraphs gleefully detailing just how historically awful the White Sox had become. I found myself comparing them to some of the worst teams in baseball history. For no good reason. Just because I could. And before I had even finished I was beginning to dread the consequences:

now I'm reeling in horror at the thought of what I've done. Does this have Reverse Jinx written all over it? Have I unwittingly set the table for a sweep by the visitors this weekend? 

Happily, no, not that awful. But even so... Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I'm sorry. My bad. 

There are a few things about the 2025 Blue Jays that are... let's say different. As in, unlike anything we've seen from this team before. Let's scratch the surface of a couple of those things. First, the lineup. The other day I commented that awaiting each day's Blue Jays lineup is the Unfolding of a Mystery. Who's in the outfield today, and where? This is not how Bobby Cox, Cito Gaston, or John Gibbons liked to operate. Like most managers, they very much  preferred a set lineup. Cox, in particular, was practically rigid in his lineup selections. But in general, the players also prefer a set lineup. Players often perform better when they know exactly what is expected of them and when they're expected to provide it. The Blue Jays have been managed by one compulsive juggler (Jimy Williams) and hindsight hasn't made look us back fondly on his tenure.

With the 2025 Blue Jays, you can pretty much count on seeing Bo Bichette at shortstop (81 starts) and Vladimir Guerrero at first base (79 starts.) After that - well, Alejandro Kirk has started 64 games behind the plate, and I think that's more than enough, actually. It's a pace that would see him catch a career high 115 games, and the one other time Kirk played this much (2022) he fell off pretty dramatically in the second half of the season. And two stints on the IL have limited Andres Gimenez to 57 starts at second base.

And that's it. If we define "the regular" as the guy who starts at least half the games at a particular position - and that's how I'm defining it today, that's all, just half! - the Blue Jays do not have a regular third baseman. Or a regular left fielder, centre fielder, right fielder, or designated hitter. George Springer (77 starts) and Ernie Clement (75 starts) will likely be in the batting order, and Addison Barger (57 starts in 73 games since coming up) will probably join them. But where they're taking their gloves each day remains to be seen.  Jimy Williams may have changed his mind as to who was his starting second baseman every six weeks, but he didn't juggle the daily lineup this much. (But I'll tell you who did. Casey Stengel. And Joe Torre. When it works, it really works. And when it doesn't work, you get fired. As Casey and Joe could tell you.)

And then there's the bunting. Modern baseball analytics has generally come down on the Earl Weaver side of the argument. Weaver had some thoughts on the subject, and Earl was never one to keep his thoughts to himself if he could shout them from the nearest rooftop instead: "You only have 27 outs. Don't give them away." and "If you play for one run, that's all you're going to get." In the fullness of time, we mostly found ourselves accepting Weaver's view of the matter. But Schneider's Blue Jays are tied for the AL lead with 20 sac hits, and at this rate they'd wind up with about 35 on the season. 

Obviously, that wouldn't even come close to the franchise record of 81, set by Roy Hartsfield's squad way back in 1977. Hey, it's not like Hartsfield had anyone who could actually hit (except Otto the Swatto.) But those 81 sac hits weren't even close to the lead league. It was a very different time, kids. 

It was such a different time, in fact, that it's worth noting that Earl Weaver's Orioles bunted more frequently than John Schneider's Blue Jays. Each and every year (well, except for the strike year, but if they'd played the 50 missing games... ) It must be acknowledged that Mark Belanger was Weaver's shortstop. The Blade was an amazing defender but he hit a little bit like a pitcher. He led the AL in sac hits a couple of times while playing for Weaver. 

It's also possible that it feels especially strange to us long-term Blue Jays fans and followers because this team has generally shunned the sac bunt ever since Bobby Cox came to town in 1982. Since that day the Blue Jays have almost always bunted less often than the average AL team. They've certainly never led the league in sac hits. They've never come close.  I looked into this on a prior occasion, devised a pretty chart comparing the Jays bunting to the rest of the league, and I've updated it for you here. 

Hey, if I don't use these skills, I'll lose them. Can't have that. The pink line is he AL average, the black line is the Blue Jays.



Isn't that pretty?

You can sure see when Bobby Cox came to town, with Jimy Williams and Cito Gaston following in his path. There's a sudden one-year spike in 1991 - Manuel Lee, no one's idea of a hitter, had taken over at shortstop, and Gaston used him like Weaver used Belanger. And Roberto Alomar had come over from San Diego with his filthy National League ways, and he kept trying to bunt for a hit with men on base. (Hey, if it doesn't work, you advance the runners without hurting your batting average. I strongly suspect Gaston eventually told him he'd much rather see Alomar try to drive the runners in rather than move them over.) The other big one-year spike was in 2008. That team's offence was being absolutely strangled by the fact that they were hitting into double plays at a truly historic rate (on pace to set an all-time MLB record, in fact.) Bunting is one of the things managers resort to in order to stay out of the double play. And poor John Gibbons was trying everything. That lineup also generally featured people like David Eckstein, Joe Inglett, John McDonald, and Marco Scutaro. 

Still, it's interesting to me that it's a John Schneider team that is acting this way, threatening to become the first Blue Jays team ever to lead the league in sac hits. Because what did Schneider do in his first full year on the job? Yup, that's the season where they laid down so few sac bunts that the line on the graph falls right off the page. The 2023 Blue Jays had 4 sac bunts, a possibility not foreseen in any of my philosophy. Four sac bunts, all year. Two by Santiago Espinal, one each by Daulton Varsho and Kevin Kiermaier.

On the one hand, I'm in full agreement with Weaver - the bunt is seldom the best strategic option at any moment in any game. Now that the pitchers have been removed from the batting order, it may never be the "correct" option. And that's certainly how the modern game is played. The two guys on the Blue Jays roster with the most career sac hits are Max Scherzer and Eric Lauer, neither of whom has picked up a bat in years. Five of the 13 position players on the current roster (Kirk, Bichette, Guerrero, Barger, Schneider) have never laid down a sac bunt in their careers, and George Springer's last one was ten years ago. 

On the other hand.… you still need to do it. First and foremost, you need to show the other teams that it's it in your bag. You want them to feel that they have to defend against it. When Ernie Clement comes to the plate with a runner on and nobody out, I want the third baseman playing even with the bag. 

But I think John Schneider has largely adopted the bunt as part of a team-building exercise - we do these things for one another, we do them for the team. This how we - we few, we happy few, we somewhat marginal major-leaguers - this is how we contribute to the winning effort. 

And it seems to be working.

So far.

And finally... happy birthday, Ringo!

Matchups

Mon 7 July - Berrios (4-3, 3.64) vs Burke (4-7, 4.03)
Tue 8 July - Bassitt (8-4, 4.32) vs Civale (1-5, 4.60)
Wed 9 July - Lauer (4-1, 2.65) vs Houser (4-2, 1.60)
Toronto at Chicago (White Sox), July 7-9 | 180 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#463195) #
A reference to Six Days On The Road by Taj Mahal? The Jays did take a Giant Step this past week.

Ernie Clement, like every player, could use a day off during a long stretch of games. Davis Schneider plays second base well enough to take a game for him, and I hope that there's a late change to the lineup for this (and if not that Davis gets the start there tomorrow).
Gerry - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#463196) #
The Jays are three games ahead of the Yankees and Rays. This is despite having the fourth best run differential in the division.

The Jays are 16-10 in one run games, the other two are 12-18 and 13-15.

The Jays are 7-3 in extra innings, the others are 1-6 and 5-3.

Can the Jays maintain their lead despite the run differential, one run games and extra innings results? Or will there be a reversion to the mean?
mathesond - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#463198) #
All the run differential talk reminds me of 2015, when the Jays were a game or so under .500 despite being +100 (ish) in run differential. The story seemed to be the management expected a reversion to the mean, but also made trades to help it along, and the team tore it up in the second half.

If I understand correctly, the run differential post May 1 isn't as stark as the full season RD. Wonder how much (if any) that plays into the internal machinations of our beloved front office.
Magpie - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#463199) #
A reference to Six Days On The Road by Taj Mahal?

I did not know Taj had covered it! I was thinking of Dave Dudley, naturally. Although my man Gram Parsons sang it with the Burritos at Altamont (and there's even video, not that you get to see much of the band.)
hypobole - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#463200) #
Gerry, I think the Jays bullpen has been a large part of the close game success and the other 2 teams failures. Going back to the Shutdowns/Meltdowns stats:

TOR 95 - 44
NYY 74 - 47
TBR 76 - 56

As long as our pen can keep it up, it's superior/much superior to the other 2. Of course there are going to be deadline trades.
christaylor - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#463201) #
Good read and thanks for the smile, Magpie.
Mike Green - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#463203) #
I didn't know about the Gram Parsons version, so we're even! I will remedy that.
hypobole - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#463204) #
Even in Weaver's time, a tie game in the bottom of the 9th or beyond didn't need a 3 run HR. 1 run will do, thank you.

What is missing from Weaver's time in the 70's is the 1st inning sac bunt teams used back then (because that's what #2 hitters are for). Like this I found: "there is some hope that it is lessening this season. Or at least, there would be if not for the San Diego Padres, who piled up five sacrifice hits in the first inning during April."

Oh wait, that's a FG article from 2013.





pooks137 - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 06:53 PM EDT (#463205) #
So the Jays' current bullpen consists of

- Burr
- Hoffman
- Little
- Sandlin
- Green
- Pina
- Fisher
- Rodriguez

Garcia is currently on the IL and unfortunately has been too injury prone over the last calendar year to be trusted for a stretch run.

It doesn't seem like the team is willing to say goodbye to Green at this point given his salary and bounce back over his last 8 innings or so.

A consideration for acquiring reliever depth between now and the deadline is how many of the 8 slots are up for grabs (mainly based on how many are optionable).

Pina is currently only a long man placeholder for an exhausted bullpen with another 3 games before the off day, so that's one spot.

Burr has just returned (and looked good in his debut appearance), but is possibly still on the bubble. He pitched well last season but doesn't have the track record of some of the other vets and is precarious with no options. If Burr implodes over the next 3 weeks, he could find himself DFAed simply to make room or to bring in a new fresh arm. That's potentially a second spot.

Fisher has options but is currently pitching too well to go down. So barring a Mason Fluharty-style implosion, Fisher is effectively not optionable at present.

Sandlin I believe has options. He's more established than Burr, but has struggled somewhat since his return from the IL. He could potentially be sent down if there's a real roster crunch if he continues to get hit.

Hoffman, Little, Rodriguez are established and aren't going anywhere (I believe only Little can be optioned and he won't be).

So the Jays have roughly 3 bullpen slots that could be upgraded between now and the deadline in Pina, Burr and Sandlin (with Burr likely lost to waivers). Other bullpen candidates with options like Fluharty, Schultz, Lucas, Bruihl, Estrada, Tate, Barnes, etc don't factor into any roster crunch (besides 40-man spots) because they can be stashed at AAA until needed again.

With 3 sports available, it would be nice to have:

- a fireballer setup man RHP
- a competent LHP to give Schneider more options to save Little's arm for platoon matchups
- a multi-inning long man type - this could come from outside the org, or end up being someone like Eric Lauer if a more established SP is acquired
scottt - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#463206) #
Reliever performance can vary after a trade.
Remember in 2015 how the relievers AA acquired underperformed? 
Magpie - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#463207) #
Missed it by that much.
uglyone - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#463208) #
2yr Stats as RP

1. RH Hoffman 108gms, 1.0ip/gm, 73era-, 74fip-, 69xfip-, 1.3war65
2. RH Garcia 61gms, 1.0ip/gm, 91era-, 92fip-, 90xfip-, 0.6war65
3. LH Little 91gms, 1.0ip/gm, 75era-, 92fip-, 83xfip-, 0.5war65
4. RH Fisher 23gms, 1.1ip/gm, 18era-, 25fip-, 60xfip-, 3.0war65
5. RH Rodriguez 34gms, 1.2ip/gm, 57era-, 95fip-, 99xfip-, 1.3war65
6. RH Burr 31gms, 0.9ip/gm, 101era-, 81fip-, 78xfip-, 0.4war65
7. RH Green 92gms, 1.0ip/gm, 76era-, 121fip-, 113xfip-, 0.2war65


8. RH Sandlin 85gms, 0.8ip/gm, 88era-, 126fip-, 107xfip-, -0.3war65
9. LH Fluharty 37gms, 0.9ip/gm, 138era-, 93fip-, 98xfip-, -0.4war65
uglyone - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#463209) #
Rays lose.
electric carrot - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#463210) #
I don't see any really good reason why the jays should lose another game all season.
christaylor - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#463211) #
I'd rank Green at least 3rd and Rodriguez 4th. Little is better than Fluharty.
christaylor - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#463212) #
... and Grilli was a big help in 2016.
Glevin - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#463213) #
I think Jays will almost certainly trade for a reliever but can't see trading for 3. Bullpen is pretty solid so there's diminishing returns on getting more guys. In playoffs, #5 starter and maybe #4 likely go to bullpen anyway.
Gerry - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#463214) #
Just looking at the recent hitter recalls from Buffalo.

Roden was recalled May 30th and had 4 at-bats in the week after recall.

Will Wagner was recalled June 28th and had 13 at-bats in his first week after recall.

Joey Loperfido was recalled July 6th and will have seven at-bats in his first two games.

One of these things is not like the others, Schneider obviously has some reservations about Roden.
lexomatic - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#463215) #
Why was Berrios pulled after 76 pitches to finish the 6th? Surely he can pitch the 7h too
christaylor - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#463216) #
There is always time to lose.
dalimon5 - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#463217) #
I've never actually seen a team like this with so much depth that contributes.
uglyone - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#463218) #
Gms 01-20: 12-8, +6 run differential (+0.30runs/gm)
Gms 21-29: 1-8, -41 run differential (-4.56runs/gm)
Gms 30-91: 40-22, +51 run differential (+0.82runs/gm)

Can we just toss out those hilarious 9gms in the middle there? Probably not. But maybe.
Magpie - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 11:15 PM EDT (#463219) #
Why was Berrios pulled after 76 pitches to finish the 6th?

Schneider seems to have concluded that his three veteran starters are the most irreplaceable guys on the team and if the game situation permits, he'll give the guy a blow.

It's a theory! Hey, if you can't second guess the manager during a nine-game winning streak, you should get out of show business.
SK in NJ - Monday, July 07 2025 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#463220) #
Re: pulling Berrios, it was simply Schneider thinking Pina could mop up 3 innings. I think that’s the long and short answer. The Estrada debut must have clouded his judgement. Berrios did have reduced velocity in this start so maybe that came into play as well.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:36 AM EDT (#463222) #
I really love seeing Bo behind vladdy in tbe order a couple games in a row now. This time joined by Barger with Springer staying up top where he belongs and joined by obl guy Lukes....but that was clement up there vlhp last time.

I definitely think this move is good for Bo and im also happy keeping Barger away from top of the order pressure/attention in this his first full season, even if his performance deserves it.

And Springer fully deserves being up top and has dealt with that pressure/attention his whole career so that's the right move.

So this might be a question if whether the Lukes/Clement platoon can keep performing in that top of the order role. Kinda reminds me of when we had the Catalanotto/Reed platoon up there.

I don't know if we'll ever be healthy but the lineup could look really deep really quickly.

V RHP / LHP

1. LF Lukes / 3B Clement
2. DH Springer / DH Springer
3. 1B Guerrero / 1B Guerrero
4. SS Bichette / SS Bichette
5. RF Santander / RF Santander
6. C Kirk / C Kirk
7. 3B Barger / 2B Schneider
8. CF Varsho / CF Varsho
9. 2B Gimenez / LF Straw
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:39 AM EDT (#463223) #
Good catch, uglyone.

That awful 9 game stretch, the hitting was really poor, averaging 2 runs per game.

But the pitching was worse, giving up 59 runs. However 31 runs were this group: Francis, Lucas, Barnes, Walker, Tate and Lawrence, in a combined 20.2 innings. How many of those will wear a Jays uniform again this season? .

christaylor - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:51 AM EDT (#463224) #
MLB doesn't work that way, but games 21-29 are worthy of scrutiny as to what was missing, what went wrong, and what was different.

Let me be the first to suggest it is Santander. That guy. That guy. The big, "scary" bat the team had to have, which no one could have possibly predicted, was not a great signing, but the fanbase was absolutely greatkins-ings themselves for being spurned and not resigning Vladdy.

I hope not, and I hope it's just a matter of health and adjustment to a new environment, but he may go down as a contributor of Mike Sirotka proportions, except in free agency, not in a trade.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:15 AM EDT (#463225) #
One last thought on the amount of bunting we do. I remember in the not too distant past players fouling off 3 bunt attempts in a row. I haven't seen every game this year, but have we had a strike 3 fouled bunt so far? The guys bunting look like they actually know how to bunt.
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:54 AM EDT (#463226) #
I'm fairly certain that Schneider had Clase bunt for a third strike earlier in the spring as sort of a pressure tactic/"prove you can do it" moment that only demonstrated that Clase is an awful bunter for a bubble prospect with speed as one of his main tools.
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#463227) #
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR202506010.shtml

Clase struck out on a foul bunt on June 1st in the bottom of the 8th with no outs and runners on 1st & 2nd against Grant Holman in Toronto's 8-4 win against the Athletics at Rogers Centre.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 05:48 AM EDT (#463228) #
Roden and Clase had virtually the same number of PAs and the same OPS and the same level of defensive contribution. Clase is 23 and will be out of options next year. Roden is 25 and has 2 more years of options.

Jimenez and Orelvis Martinez are also running out of options. Neither has shown much when given opportunities.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#463229) #
It seems like a good idea to have a look a Pina's stuff and how it plays in game.
He threw strikes and didn't leave anything over the middle.
96mph sinker, but he looks like a contact pitcher.

Loperfido seemed to have spent his time working on closing the hole in his swing by staying more upright.
So far, so good.
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#463230) #
Curious to see what this version of Loperfido can do. He's had 3 runs at AAA and his K rate has gone 33%, 28%, 22%. He has great raw power, speed and plays solid D so there is promise there still.

One thing the Jays have done very well and purposefully is collect depth. You haver to hope that one or two of these guys do a Barger and become core pieces. The only downside is that the Jays don't really have big weaknesses so trading to upgrade is difficult.


dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#463232) #
I like Loperfido and predict he will become a regular in MLB.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#463233) #
The only downside is that the Jays don't really have big weaknesses

A very strange sentence (although I think I've written stranger ones!) But true. Someone like Nathan Lukes, say, is a perfectly acceptable major leaguer. You could certainly win with a guy like that in the daily lineup. But you couldn't win with nine guys like that.
earlweaverfan - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#463234) #
“Trading to upgrade is difficult”

What a fantastic place to be!

Then maybe the next step is to adopt an infill perspective, combined with a ‘strength for different strength’ approach.

Regarding the former, we could try to find that RH bat we need, a kind of RH version of Loperfido, but with strong defence across IF positions. Maybe young and flawed but on the cusp, or older but stuck in a low-performing team like Merrifield was. A second infill opportunity might be to find a stronger, harder—throwing setup man, with the dependable upside we had hoped that Garcia might bring.

On ‘strength for different strength’, I continue to be inspired by the trade that the Jays made for Alomar and Carter, giving up McGriff and Fernandez. Both teams gave up a lot of roughly equal value but strengthened themselves where they could deploy it more advantageously.

Just noodling…
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#463235) #
It seems like a good idea to have a look a Pina's stuff and how it plays in game.

He threw strikes and didn't leave anything over the middle. 96mph sinker, but he looks like a contact pitcher.

I was excited about the recent addition of Pina as long reliever and starter depth.

Was similarly disappointed by his Blue Jays debut. He was gifted a 7 run lead but lacked both command and control. He threw a lot of uncompetitive pitching, had long PAs against weak Chicago batters, ran up his pitch count over 40 while only getting 4 outs and got hit hard when he finally did come into the zone.

Was also disappointed that Dan & Joe implied the org didn't see him as 6th starter depth and instead saw him as a "3 inning" mop up reliever.

Pina's spot on a crowded 40-man is still likely safe for a few weeks until deadline acquisitions start coming in because it cost the Jays an asset to bring him on board.

One thing the Jays have done very well and purposefully is collect depth. You haver to hope that one or two of these guys do a Barger and become core pieces. The only downside is that the Jays don't really have big weaknesses so trading to upgrade is difficult.

An issue with Toronto's depth is that their 40-man is full and imbalanced, so they are going to start losing assets off it for nothing simply due to day-to-day machinations and incoming deadline acquisitions.

It would help a little if they could include some of the peripheral 40-man pieces in their deadline trades. But they probably also have to decide which guys to keep between the Rodens and the Loperfidos of the world, while trading away the other for something of minor value (A-ball prospects, international signing room, competitive balance draft picks, etc).

hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#463236) #
"Roden and Clase had virtually the same number of PAs and the same OPS and the same level of defensive contribution."

My eye test did not agree with the defensive contribution - Roden looked OK, Clase much less so. So I checked. Yes, DRS says I was wrong - both were +2.

But Statcast very much agreed with my eyes. Roden +2 OAA, +3 FRV, Clase -2 OAA, -2 FRV.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:02 AM EDT (#463237) #
If I were Atkins my #1 target right now would be the best LH reliever available.
soupman - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#463238) #
Caleb Ferguson is having a good year but seems like it’s mostly luck driven. His K rate fell off a cliff but he’s mostly been effective. He’s on an expiring deal with the Pirates.

Soto and Dominguez (RHP) with the O’s are also on expiring deals. Soto is a Lefty Flamethrower that has issues with walks.Dominguez has better line stats but would be best used as a ROOGY.

Gibson on the Marlins has reverse splits and the rest of the crowd of lefties on expiring deals seems flawed or just ineffective.

Maybe the Nats would sell a guy like Ferrer who throws lots of sinkers …but how much of an upgrade are any of these guys in this group? How much are the Jays going to pay for years of control?

Maybe theJays might want to bring in Tiedemann or Barriera as relievers like the Rays did Price many moons ago?
uglyone - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#463239) #
People are still ranting about youngest-guy-on-the-team-by-2yrs Clase even though he's been gone for over a week now.

Not sure how this kid engendered so much hate so quickly.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#463240) #
Curious to see what this version of Loperfido can do. He's had 3 runs at AAA and his K rate has gone 33%, 28%, 22%.

“We put a huge emphasis on him kind of making more contact this year,” Schneider said. “And he’s aware of that.”
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#463241) #
"A very strange sentence (although I think I've written stranger ones!) But true. Someone like Nathan Lukes, say, is a perfectly acceptable major leaguer. You could certainly win with a guy like that in the daily lineup. But you couldn't win with nine guys like that."

In related news, the Blue Jay highest wRC+ over 2023-25 (min 400 PA) belongs to Vladimir Guerrero Jr at 138. Second is Nathan Lukes at 113.

Schneider's use of Estrada and Pina makes complete sense to me, in the context of prior use of the pen and his shortage of starting pitching and the run of games with no days off in the schedule.

I'd be looking for a starting pitcher at the deadline so that the club has options beyond Manoah in case the rotation of Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Lauer and Scherzer does not hold for the rest of the season. The bullpen looks considerably stronger to me with Hoffman, Fisher, Rodriguez, Little and Garcia providing 5 reasonable high leverage options.

For what it's worth, Statcast numbers suggest that Fluharty was exceptionally unlucky and Chad Green has been exceptionally lucky. I hope Fluharty is back before too long.


Marc Hulet - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#463242) #
Barriera can't throw strikes anymore down in Rookie ball and Tiedemann isn't even back in games yet - and may not be until September. He had surgery July 30, 2024. You probably don't want to count on them. It's a stretch but Kendry Rojas is your best bet and maybe he can continue the Cuban luck they've had with Rodriguez and Estrada.

Even looking for Manoah to contribute meaningful innings in 2025 is also somewhat questionable. He was brutal in 2023, threw 2 good games (out of 5) in 2024 and that's it since 2022.
92-93 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#463243) #
Those are the lineups I posted last week, uglyone, with one change - vs. LHP you can put Heineman at C and Springer in the OF if you want an all-righty lineup. It's a very good looking lineup vs. RHP at full strength.

Last night during the radio broadcast Leroux remarked after Lukes' bunt that he looked like a player who had honed his craft in the minors for many years, something that seemingly used to be a lot more common than it is today. There was no doubt people who thought bunting in a 7-1 game with no outs was a bit much, but it was a run that effectively ended up keeping Hoffman out of the game. They all matter, and good teams need to keep piling on runs if they want their relief corps to stay fresh throughout the summer. Adding on a run in a 7-1 game can help you win a tie game the next day.

It's really incredible the record the Jays have put together with Guerrero, Bichette, and Santander all underperforming their reasonable preseason projections. It gives hope that this level of play is somewhat sustainable and that those 3 can pick up the slack if others fade a bit in the 2nd half. It's also why a couple of us kept pounding the table for a frontline SP over a bat like Santander - it was entirely predictable that with all the depth on offense the team could figure it out, but that relying on Francis/Scherzer as a 4/5 with no real backups might not work out that well. On 590 this morning they were talking about the Jays acquiring Degrom, which just shows you how well things are going right now.

I wonder if Manoah's stuff would play up out of the bullpen, and if the best course of action right now would be to rehab him as a reliever and let him focus on stretching his arm out next spring. The player would have to buy in, of course.
soupman - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#463244) #
Thanks for the update on the young LHP. It would appear that no news, in terms of rehabbing players, is not synonymous with good news.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#463245) #
3 Year Splits

VRHP

1. LF Lukes 282pa, .374obp, 126wrc+
2. DH Springer 1256pa, .329obp, 112wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 1419pa, .364obp, 136wrc+
4. RF Santander 1130pa, .306obp, 116wrc+
5. SS Bichette 1080pa, .318obp, 107wrc+
6. 3B Barger 396pa, .299obp, 113wrc+
7. C Alejandro 802pa, .333obp, 98wrc+
8. 2B Gimenez 1052pa, .312obp, 94wrc+
9. CF Varsho 954pa, .273obp, 89wrc+

B. UT Schneider 434pa, .313obp, 98wrc+
B. OF Straw 467pa, .295obp, 66wrc+
B. IF Clement 546pa, .298obp, 89wrc+
B. C Heineman 104pa, .330obp, 83wrc+

X. UT Wagner 141pa, .333obp, 99wrc+


vLHP

1. 3B Clement 282pa, .337obp, 125wrc+
2. DH Springer 381pa, .331obp, 93wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 353pa, .414obp, 148wrc+
4. RF Santander 400pa, .323obp, 112wrc+
5. LF Schneider 245pa, .322obp, 112wrc+
6. C Alejandro 308pa, .341obp, 104wrc+
7. CF Varsho 240pa, .331obp, 102wrc+
8. SS Bichette 256pa, .305obp, 95wrc+
9. 2B Gimenez 435pa, .289obp, 74wrc+

B. UT Lukes 39pa, .278obp, 40wrc+
B. OF Straw 230pa, .304obp, 74wrc+
B. IF Barger 77pa, .247obp, 46wrc+
B. C Heineman 47pa, .478obp, 205wrc+

X. IF Jimenez 67pa, .358obp, 123wrc+
John Northey - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#463247) #
So for trades who is the best hitter who might be available? Best pitcher? Best reliever?

Hitter: Byron Buxton (Twins) - signed for a reasonable $15 mil a year through 2028, but Twins are cheap and always cutting costs, a CF with a 140 OPS+ so would be insanely expensive I'd expect, very unlikely to be traded but is the best hitter who might be available - everyone with more fWAR is a 'nope, not even for every prospect you have' guy. José Ramírez is next (#15 in fWAR) and likewise is very unlikely (has a no-trade clause) to be moved.

More possible is CJ Abrams - in arbitration years for Washington at SS with a 134 wRC+ at age 24 - he'd be very expensive, but I could see a new GM in Washington wanting to make a splash and cut payroll for the next few years. This would open a 2nd deal sending Bo somewhere (contender) for other talent. But I seriously doubt this would happen - too many moving parts for a mid-season deal, this could happen post-season though (Bo goes away, Jays dump a lot to get a strong SS for the next few years). There really aren't many hitters available this summer unless a non-contender is willing to move a pre-arb guy (James Wood Washington, Kyle Stowers Miami, Jacob Wilson A's, etc.) or if a contender will move a quality guy in a 'strength for strength' type deal (ala the famous Alomar/Carter for McGriff/Fernandez deal) but again, those tend to be offseason deals when you have time to make them.

So I'm not seeing hitter options outside of maybe a backup but our backups are damn good right now.

Pitching? I've gone through this a few times, Kris Bubic with the Royals might be worth asking about - a LH starter who has 4+ years of service, just this year and next left before free agency. KC is one of those teams that has trouble giving out massive deals so maybe they deal him this year rather than wait, given they are 5 out of the playoffs right now with 3 teams between them and the playoffs. Unlikely, but possible. MacKenzie Gore with the Nationals is similar, 3 years of service time pre-25, cheap organization, but this club really stinks (fired GM/Manager) so this is really worth digging into.

So if I'm going to blow the wad Gore looks damn tempting - new GM who wants to stand out, no bad contracts in Washington anymore outside of the last 2 years of Strasburg's hanging around, there is a chance here. Also see if KC will deal Bubic. KC has other solid starters but we want an ace for the playoffs. Neither is likely to happen but both are big home run swings for chasing a title.
earlweaverfan - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#463248) #
If AZ made Kikuchi available for a reasonable price, would we have him back?
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#463249) #
People are still ranting about youngest-guy-on-the-team-by-2yrs Clase even though he's been gone for over a week now.

Not sure how this kid engendered so much hate so quickly.

The Clase hate would seem to originate from the fact that he seemed to be the main perpetrator of taking starts and PAs from more favoured prospects here like Roden.

And the fact that Clase is a frustrating player in that it is claimed that he's a big bag of tools (like perhaps a Derek Fisher) but comes off as a "dumb" player for lack of a better word in that his actual play is unpolished and seems to lack baseball IQ (bad routes, getting picked off first, bad offensive production, inability to get down a bunt despite speed/bottom of the order/inability to hit).

The main thing going against Clase going forward other than lack of performance and a deep depth chart is the fact that he is on his last option year on a team that in 2026 likely has Varsho, Springer, Barger, Santander, Lukes, Straw, Davis Schneider and whomever of Loperfido and Roden and non-40 man roster guys survice the upcoming deadline and roster crunches.

Despite Clase's age, the fact he's out of options for 2026 makes him a prime candidate to be included in a trade package to a non-contender where giving him a 26-man roster spot next year is more feasible.

hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#463251) #
Kikuchi is LAA, but yeah.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#463252) #
A RHB off the bench would be one area I would look at. Davis Schneider has a 136 wRC+ (259/.365/.463) in 63 PA since returning to the bigs, so maybe he's that guy. I guess we will see how things look in 3 weeks in that regard. Would love to have someone like Refsnyder off the bench to hit against LHP, but the Red Sox are in the thick of the WC race, so they likely won't be sellers unless they fall off from now until the deadline.

A high leverage RP and another starter are bigger weaknesses, especially the latter.
Petey Baseball - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#463253) #
I think Orelvis Martinez is a good candidate to be traded before the deadline. He clearly has some big league talent/tools, and appears to need a change of scenery, especially given the PED suspension.

Frankly, I hope the Jays go for high ceiling in their stretch run adds. Their biggest recent splash was Berrios in '21, and not surprisingly, their 35-21 post deadline record was their best in comparison to the other playoff years ('22-23). That's even considering their other "major" add was Brad Hand, and we know how that turned out.

'16, while Fransisco Liriano was good down the stretch (and good in the wildcard game, before getting injured in the ALDS) the other adds brought nothing. In '23, Jordan Hicks was decent in the stretch run, but since the offense was so terrible, it didn't matter, and he only pitched once in the playoff series vs the Twins.

The boost a higher ceiling add brings to a team cannot be overstated. It's hard to quantify how the dog days of August contribute to September collapses or how a team fades down the stretch. The '15 deadline is case and point, where the team just took off. While "buzz" doesn't generate wins, it's pretty clear the Price trade put a ton of wind in the teams sails.

This year, adding a bona-fide ace in DeGrom, who can match up with a Brown or Skubal, would instantly put the Jays right on par with the Tigers or Astros. They are one of only a few teams that could afford his salary, and they should be doing everything possible to bring him here.
Petey Baseball - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#463254) #
The Jays also need to be focused on a first round bye and home field. They're only 2 back of Houston and 4.5 back of Detroit, and play 4 against Detroit in a few weeks. It's not out the realm of possibility this team could finish first overall.
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#463255) #
Obviously, if I could get a top of rotation starter, I'd go for it and be willing to trade anyone in the system and otherwise I'd be interested in a reliever and a depth starter and maybe a bench bat but all at the right costs. I don't think any of the upgrades there would likely be huge so would be looking to trade from the glut of AAA OF types to get what I could.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#463256) #
I think the issue with Clase is that he was being given more playing time than he seemed to earn - and the more he played the worse he played it seemed.

OF Options...
  • Clase: 85 OPS+ in '24 (66 PA), 65 in '25 (112 PA), 120 sOPS+ in May, 43 in June. Ouch. But his high leverage 127 sOPS+ is why the manager loved him I suspect, 52 in low leverage, 56 in medium. sOPS+ by Innings 1-3 37, 4-6 64, 7-9 84 (just 1 PA in extras - had a hit & RBI). Strange player - low value, but high value in prime times.
  • Straw: 70 OPS+ overall, by month 121-69-40-42 getting 51-56 PA each month. His defense is WOW but his offense is very ugly. Again, like Clase, high leverage 139 sOPS+, 64 medium, 54 low. vs power pitchers 126 sOPS+, vs finese 41 - let him face power pitchers only, never a junk baller.
  • Roden: 64 OPS+ overall, April 55 sOPS+, May -37, June 119. This is what got annoying, he was starting to hit and was glued to the bench it seemed. Better in high leverage 85, but not as much as the other 2 above. 61/63 for Med/Low. Power pitchers killed him - 26 sOPS+, finesse 49, mixed 124.
  • Lukes: 113 OPS+ overall, by month 88-139-64-228, Lverage is 145-69-133 for H-M-L. P/mix/F is 110-102-126. Can see why he is out there most games. 122 sOPS+ vs RHP, 32 vs LHP (ouch) shows why he must be platooned.
  • Schneider: 105 OPS+, 23-na-124-137, since returning he clearly figured something out. But is the anti-leverage guy H-M-L is 4-16-203 but 11-29-44 PA so hard to put any weight on that. P-Mix-F is 171-107-80, so another guy good vs power pitchers. R/L is 58-143 so clearly platooning is a good idea here. Perfect mix with Lukes.
  • Loperfido - 7 PA, 246 OPS+, lets see what he looks like after 40+ PA, and after that start I suspect he'll get 40-100 PA ala the guys above him.
Seems clear we have a solid platoon in Lukes/Schneider, a 'wow' defense in Straw for late innings, a wild card in Loperfido, and... well... a kid in Clase who has a lot to learn, just a shame he has no more options after this year.
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#463257) #
I agree Orelvis will be traded to free up a 40-man roster spot but his value is in the toilet.

He'll be a third piece in a bigger deal or flipped one-for-one for a middle reliever with a year or two of control beyond 2025.
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#463258) #
In old friend news

- Brandon Drury signed a minor league deal with the Angels after getting released this spring by the White Sox after getting hurt a few times coming out of camp
- Not and old friend, but Luis Robert Jr is being activated tonight off the IL for Chicago
- Poor Zach Pop has continued his tough run after being DFAed by the Jays this spring. He was let go by the Mariners are imploding in a middle relief outing, then was picked up by the Mets. He's back on the waiver wire after getting DFAed again after giving up another 3 runs over 4 outs in his lone Mets appearance. He's now running an ERA a smidge below 15 on the season.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#463259) #
Marc's right, his value is in the toilet. If the Jays can wait till the offseason, there is still a chance he can regain at least some of his previous value.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#463260) #
Yeah Orelvis is at an all time low in terms of value.

One interesting name floated in trade rumours is Shane Bieber who has a player option for 2026 and is coming back from injury.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#463261) #
Guys like Bieber, coming back from injury, are always interesting. In '87 the Jays took a chance on Mike Flannagan and it worked really well - he had an 89 ERA+ with Baltimore that year, years removed from his Cy season, but a 192 as a Jay that year (7 starts, nearly pushed them to the playoffs), but as a Jay had just a 99 ERA+ - kind of cool as he finished lifetime 100 (101 as an O, 99 as a J).

Bieber though is a much bigger risk - just 2 1/3 IP in rookie ball this year (1 hit over 9 batters faced, 5 K's, no walks, no runs). Cleveland is paying $10 mil for this, plus a $16 mil player option or $4 mil buyout for next year. Ouch. That is a lot for a team known to be cheap. Hmm... wonder if they'd do a Bieber/Clase trade - Clase is their closer making $6 mil this year then $10 mil each of the next 2 years. Bieber would be (expensive) depth on the farm in case of issues with Manoah, Lauer, or Scherzer, Clase would be protection for Hoffman - dual closer situation. It is possible, but unlikely. We'll see I guess.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#463263) #
Cleveland is in a position imho where they could trade two of Ramirez, Bieber and Clase and ask for a decent chunk of a farm system.

It's the type of trade that would put a contender over the top. Even if Ramirez is removed from the equation you can shop yourself a pitcher with similar or higher upside than Alcantara along with a lights out closer. The more confident you are that you can convince Bieber to sign longer term the more prospects you're likely to include.

Cleveland could land a package of top 100 prospects. Yesavage, Roden, Kasevich is some type of package to make it happen. Maybe they would entertain Manoah+ instead of Yesavage.

Trading any/all players from your farm for Ramirez, Bieber and Clase would effectively be Atkins and Shapiro "out AA-ing AA"

Oh yeah, of course Ramirez won't be traded.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#463264) #
Tonight and up to the break feels big to me.

We've been a top-10 90+ win type team a few times in this regime, but we have a chance here to really push up into top-5 / 95+ win territory and really finally be a legit contender for the first time in this era. At the moment we're at a 94 win pace and just on the edge of the top 5.

Given our opponents up to the break, i'd be dissappointed if we didn't break through and be sitting right up there going into the break.
Petey Baseball - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#463265) #
I’d want no part of Bieber. Hasn’t pitched like an ace in a few years, and is injury prone. Clase would be the guy from Cleveland I’d hope the Jays take a run at. Duran would be equally as nice. I think both will be available but would cost a lot.

It’s not always what you’re willing to give up, although that is obviously critical. It’s what the team receiving the prospects thinks of your prospects, and of your farm system overall. The Jays could make everyone available and still not get the deals they want done if a teams/teams like another young guy better.

Nimmala should definitely be in play. Shortstop could be locked in for at least the next thee years should Bichette or Jimenez be there. You could argue his value now will never be higher. Same with Yesavage. I’m good with trading both if it helps lands an ace starter or a Duran/Clase type closer. If you’re not going to go for it this year, with everything the Jays have going for them, what year are you doing it.

Petey Baseball - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#463266) #
I should clarify. I wouldn’t be in favour of trading both in the same deal for a closer; but if Nimmala was the starting point in a deal for Clase, for instance, and Yesavage gets us in the conversation for DeGrom you go for it.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#463267) #
The Mariners/Yankees series should be very interesting.
Yanks have the first wild card spot and Seattle is holding on to the last one.
The Yankees will be starting Warren, Schlitler from AAA and Stroman.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#463268) #
I checked Pina's scouting report at fangraphs.
It covers up to 2021, but they say he had a slider and a curve and that his fastball command was poor glove side because of his cross body delivery.
Yesterday, he threw 43% sinker, 18% 4-seamer, 23% splitter and 16% slider.
I guess things changed in 3 years.
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#463269) #
I don't understand the concept of "going for it" in modern baseball. It just doesn't make sense. Too many teams make the playoffs every year for it to worth emptying your system to marginally improve your odds which is why you see much more conservative trades now. Teams aren't trading top prospects unless you're getting multiple years of control of a top-line starter or everyday player. Am I willing to trade Nimmala? For a front-line starter under some team control? Absolutely. For a closer? No thank you.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#463270) #
Apparently, Mark Leiter jr Broke is fibula on June 24 and has been put on the 15-day IL.
A stress fracture with no displacement, I imagine.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#463271) #
Passan on the Blair show suggested Mitch Keller would be the best fit for the Jays. Seems realistic, though underwhelming. Would be more of a 2026-28 move and not so much adding to the upside of the 2025 team.
Gerry - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#463272) #
Sandlin to the IL, Bruihl active.
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#463273) #
Bastardo might make it back before the year is over.
He's got a 60 grade change up that could play against lefties.
Or his lack of control could make him unplayable.

scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#463274) #
Elbow this time.
That could be it.
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#463277) #
Every game, it seems like a different guy. Just incredible.
christaylor - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#463278) #
Is it 5-0 yet? (It had nothing to do with AA edition.)
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#463280) #
Keller has seen his K rate drop each of thr past two years and is under 19%, which doesn't sound ideal for the AL East. Hes too similar to some of the other starters the Jays already have. They need some heat in the rotation.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#463281) #
Agreed. Passan mentioned that he thinks Keller could start a playoff game, but I really don't see a difference between him and the rest of the Jays rotation. He'd be more of the same rather than a clear upgrade. I found him to be a realistic name mostly for being under team control through 2028. I think the Jays will get a SP with control this deadline given their lack of SP options for 2026.

With that said, I'd still prefer Alcantara with the hopes that his command improves as he gets further away from the surgery. The stuff is still there, as is the velocity. The command/location is not.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#463282) #
There was discussion about leadership earlier with Scherzer and Springer mentioned. Someone brought up Vlad. The out at second where he jogged out of the box and then had to turn it on is not leadership.
ayjackson - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#463284) #
Have we had a complete game this year?
scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#463286) #
Vlad's hit was a single. He tried to reach second when the outfielder bubbled it. It was close and the 6th run scored on that.
Getting to first earlier in that case doesn't really change anything. He would have to stop or return to first before the bubble.
Vlad is not a max effort runner, but he's been durable.
You can see that as a trade off with guys like Buxton who hustle more and miss more time.
Some guys with more to prove will hustle more.

It's mostly on infield ground ball that hustling could potentially make a difference with Vlad.
Kirk manages an uncanny number of infield hits even though he's not really hustling that much.

scottt - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#463287) #
They will probably shut Bassitt down when the game resume.
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#463288) #
Gane called. Another win!
Glevin - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#463289) #
Game called that is. Best thing about being called early is bullpen is fully rested.
pooks137 - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#463290) #
When asked in the postgame about his break from now until after the ASB, Bassitt answered "We'll see" and offered to be available as a bulk guy or out of the bullpen in Sacramento if the bullpen is in trouble over the weekend.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 08 2025 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#463291) #
Scottt, I saw the play. And yeah, Vlad doesn't have to hustle like Schneider or Loperfido do. All I'm saying is that's not leadership.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#463292) #
KIrk had a lot of infield hits a few years ago, but only has 2 this year.

While checking that I noticed something about Roden that maybe explains why he rarely got playing time when he was recalled in June. 350 players, including Roden, have 110 PA's. Roden's 10.7% Line Drive rate is 349th. His 26.1% IFFB rate is also 349th. That is not a good combo.

Maybe the primary reason he was up was to work with Popkins on his swing?
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:29 AM EDT (#463293) #
The Jays have built the best group fielders in the majors, somebody like Mitch Keller who doesn’t walk anybody, doesn't get injured and is controllable would line up well with what is behind him.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#463294) #
Over the last year, baserunners are 36-4 when attempting to steal with Keller pitching. They are 5-1 when Skenes is pitching and 17-6 when Bailey Falter is pitching. Fewer baserunners is part of it for Skenes and the catchers haven't thrown well, but evidently Keller doesn't hold runners well.
Glevin - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 07:36 AM EDT (#463295) #
I'd be find with Keller but it's a longer-term pickup to replace Bassit next few years, not to be a playoff starter. The cost, however, needs to be reasonable. I'm not trading top prospects for a mid rotation starter with a fair contract. Would rather just pay bigger money and no prospects to one of the better free agent starters next year. Class is weak for hitters but has a bunch of starters (Cease, King, Valdez, Suarez, Gallen, and a few more).
scottt - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 08:12 AM EDT (#463296) #
Yankees humiliated the Mariners. At least the Jays picked up a game on the Rays who are now only one game ahead of Boston. Both teams will meet in the weekend.

Winning streak now at 10.
They can tie the franchise record today.
Jonny German - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#463297) #
They can also potentially catch the Astros today for 2nd-best in the AL.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#463299) #
As for the Astros, mentioned Josh Hader had 25 shutdowns without a meltdown. He's now 25-1 after he loaded the bases in the 10th, then gave up a grand slam last night.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#463300) #
As for our game, it's a battle of arguably the 2 best dumpster dive starters in the league tonight. Coulda, shoulda won the last time we faced Houser, but Hoffman came in with 2 on 2 out, and went walk, error, double and a 2-1 lead was a 4-2 deficit. That was Hoffman's only error this season and his last blown save.

On the positive side tonight, we're 13-2 since that game and the White Sox have been swept 9 times this year, so they are good at that.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#463303) #
With a VERY fresh bullpen and the day off tomorrow, the outlook for tonight and the next series looks good. The only arm that might be unavailable is Pina, while Fisher, Rodriguez, and Hoffman are already in the "needs work" category.

Schneider is now up to .259/.358/.500 with 4hr 8bb 18k in 67 PA since his recall. He has a .998 OPS since I remarked on 6/25 that I would rather see him in the lineup vs. RHP than Clase.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#463304) #
For any who haven't yet checked ESPN's mid-season grades, anyone care to guess what grade they gave our Jays? Hint - it's fair.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#463305) #
Electric carrot has pointed out a few times that Davis Schneider seems to get more than his share of truly awful ball/strike calls. I'd love to see the stats on that, and the org should have them. I expect that there are a few umpires responsible and it would be best to give Davis the day off when they are behind the plate, if that is indeed the case.

It happened again last night after Davis homered. The first pitch of his 3rd at-bat in the 6th inning was way outside and called a strike. The pitcher Gilbert did not throw a pitch in the zone during the remainder of a 9 pitch at-bat. Davis fouled off the ones that were about the same distance from the strike zone and took the ones that were even further out to run the count to 3-2. The 9th pitch was in the same location as the first one, and Davis swung and flew out to left-field.

It is true that the rains were coming and the strike zone might have been expanded, but it seemed that Davis Schneider again got more than his share of the expansion. I'd love to see the data.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#463306) #
Over his major league career to date, Davis Schneider has been precisely average offensively vs. RHP and modestly above average vs. LHP. John Schneider's decision to give him more than a platoon role with Lukes this year (in spite of Davis' struggles in 2024) has turned out very well.
scottt - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#463308) #
The way to get Schneider out has been to throw stuff outside and let the ump call it a strike.
Schneider seems to be crowding the plate now.
lexomatic - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#463309) #
Definitely in the camp that would love to see more evidence of the anecdotal Schneider bad calls. I dont know if that's publicly available, even paid.
I do feel like he would benefit from ABS, Biggio if he gets another chance... and those types of players.
pooks137 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#463310) #
I do feel like he would benefit from ABS, Biggio if he gets another chance... and those types of players.

I'd place Kirk in that bucket as well.

During his hot streak last month that seems to have cooled some, the broadcast was always raving about him having the best 2 strike BA in the league.

But it also seemed that despite Kirk's great eye, he was the nouveau Bo starting every PA Bo & two.

dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#463311) #
You guys aren't going by that SN strike zone box, are you? Those are mostly accurate sometimes.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#463312) #
They seem to match the ABS graphics, or maybe they only show the graphics that do match?
scottt - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#463313) #
Springer and Clement get the day off.
Guerrero is the DH.
Wagner at 1B.
Heineman catching.
Straw in CF.
Jimenez at 2B.
Loperfido in LF and slowly climbing in the batting order.

The Barger, Wagner, Loperfido sequence does look like a trap to get a lefty and pinch hit some guys.
mathesond - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#463315) #
Fangraphs featured a couple of Jays yesterday: George Springer and Kevin Gausman (the latter is a David Laurila interview).
SK in NJ - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#463316) #
I guess the Jays wanted both Springer and Kirk to get 2 days off consecutively, but I wouldn't make a habit of benching both on the same day. That's two of your best bats sitting at the same time. The Jays have been winning with some funky lineups lately, so maybe there's still some magic left for the sweep today.
mathesond - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#463317) #
Maybe Schneider figured that since he has his ace going today, he can afford to give Kirk & Springer the day off?
scottt - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#463318) #
Houser has pretty big splits.
No left bats left on the bench could work out.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#463319) #
You mean his soon-to-be long man ace?
mathesond - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#463320) #
The very same!
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#463321) #
I like giving guys like Kirk two days off in a row, but it's a weird choice for Springer who mostly DHs considering the break is four days away. Hopefully he's feeling good.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#463322) #
Ah thanks scottt, it's definitely the Houser splits - .625/.822 over his career, and even more pronounced this year.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#463324) #
ESPN mid-season grade for the Jays: A-, tied with Cubs. Tigers A+, Astros A, were only teams graded higher.
lexomatic - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#463326) #
I'd place Kirk in that bucket as well.


Then the Ernie Lombardi comp would feel especially appropriate. Would probably shift to a 50/20 Bb/k split or something as ridiculous.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#463327) #
Hopefully FanGraphs is right, listing Lauer as being arb eligible for 2026 then a free agent after that. The more I see the more I like.

If right then 2026's rotation is Gausman-Berrios-Lauer-?-? with Manoah probably one of those questions, the other a total question (Yesavage, resign Bassitt, resign Scherzer, Francis, Bloss, Macko, Estrada, Lucas, Tiedemann, sign a top free agent, etc.)
Glevin - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#463328) #
Man, Jays need more out of Vlad in the second half.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#463329) #
Someone needs to pull Vlad aside and tell him to stop being so adventurous on the bases. I get why he thought he could get to 3B, but he should've seen the pitcher was closer to 3B than he was and waited at 2B. Especially with Barger up to bat.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#463330) #
The aggressive base running had generally been better this year but that’s a basic fundamental - don’t make the third out at third base.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#463331) #
A TOOTBLAN
Glevin - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#463332) #
Vladdy doing his best to lose this game today.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#463333) #
"And another one"
krose - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#463334) #
Unintelligent baseball has been an issue.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#463335) #
Apparently they should've given Vladdy the day off, not George. Still time for redemption though.
christaylor - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#463336) #
It's still a series win but this is a game that the Jays will lose, if they lose, not one the Sox win. Except for maybe that key double.

It'd be nice to see the streak extended but maybe on a travel day this was predictable.
soupman - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#463337) #
There’s six out with the top of the lineup due and a one run deficit against the worst team in the league and here and elsewhere the chatter is the game is over.
christaylor - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#463338) #
Now three, but the sentiment comes from watching the game this afternoon. Good pitching. Bo had a day. I hope they come back but I would not bet on it.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#463339) #
So there might be a need for relief help sooner rather than later…
krose - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#463340) #
Bit of a lacklustre day.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#463341) #
A super frustrating watch, but I suppose they were due for a game like this
92-93 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#463342) #
Such a frustrating loss.

I really didn't like burning both Springer and Schneider when they pinch hit for Jimenez to lead off the 8th. It was entirely predictable that they would need one of them later in the game. Even if they went 1-2-3 in the 8th, they could then use Springer for Wagner in the 9th.
Glevin - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#463343) #
Lineup was bad but loss can be pinned largely on Vlad. 0-4 with 6 outs created AND a dumb baserunning play that cost them another run. Jays need him to be much better in second half.
Bid - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#463345) #
...an inValady day indeed.
The_Game - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#463346) #
Bad managing and Vlad making inexcusable baserunning errors aside, is there any other organization in baseball history that benches 3 of their 6 best players going into an off day during a 10 game win streak simply because they had some pre-set rest plan in place a month ago?

The Shapiro and Atkins Jays (and their devotion to the process) are truly one of a kind.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#463347) #
Again, benching two of your best hitters on the same day is not a good strategy. Stagger the rest days so that only 1 good player is on the bench at a time. Ridiculous to have a 10 game winning streak and not take lineup construction seriously.

A loss was going to come eventually so it is what it is, but between that and Vladdy being Vladdy, it was not a fun game.
scottt - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#463348) #
They scored 2 runs against Houser in Toronto.
He's tough on right bats.
Kirk went 0-4 last time and he doesn't play in day games after night games.
Clement had a couple of infield singles. Can't really bank on that.

99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#463349) #
They played 16 games in 16 days and were playing the worst team in the AL. Giving two key players 2 consecutive rest days is a smart way to keep them healthy, after all yhere are 2 months of season left to play. Springer is 35; they plan on Kirk catching 120 games.

Also, they swept the Yankees without Bo. They are able to beat the White Sox without Springer and Kirk. Let’s be serious.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#463350) #
They looked like a team playing their 16th game in 16 days. They could use a real day off.
electric carrot - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#463352) #
"is there any other organization in baseball history that benches 3 of their 6 best players going into an off day during a 10 game win streak"

As was explained upthread Houser has dramatic splits and the Jays went with a lefty lineup. Actually a smart play based on specific info not a pre-set rest plan.

92/93 said:
"it's definitely the Houser splits - .625/.822 over his career, and even more pronounced this year."
John Northey - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#463353) #
Sheesh - 10 game win streak and we're all mad because it isn't an 11 gamer?  They lost 2-1 despite some boneheaded plays by Vlad on the bases and by Lukes not running full out to ensure the 2nd run. Yes, this was a winnable game but every team loses some of those. Right now the Jays have a 3 game lead - something they haven't had in the AL East in a decade (2015).  Let's enjoy it.

Next up the A's - 2 of 3 is good, 3 of 3 is great, 1 of 3 is a grumble, getting swept would royally suck. But the Yankees play the Cubs this weekend (a much tougher opponent), and the Rays play the Red Sox (also a tough opponent).  So a bigger lead is certainly possible, and unless disaster strikes the Jays should be in 1st come the ASB.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#463354) #
As talked about here before, VGJ has not hit well while DHing over his career so far. He has gone 5-1 stealing bases as a DH, so it may not apply to his baserunning.

Personally, I'd recommend either playing him at 1B or sitting him for a day, but not the in-between of DHing him. If he had been sitting today, Springer could have DHed. If he had played first base, Wagner could have DHed if you wanted to give Springer the day off.

It was the 16th game in 16 days, and a day game after a night game.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#463357) #
I've been impressed by Schneider's managing the past 2 weeks.
soupman - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#463358) #
I can't stand mid-inning pitching changes. Mostly I find it slows the game down, but I also think that there's a psychological reason to avoid doing it. If I'm coming in and my skipper wants to punch out the guy at bat to wipe up some inherited runners...do I feel a *little* more comfortable going in the zone knowing that it isn't my ERA on the line?

With that said, I think we need to set up in-game polling on every pitching change. My assumption is the manager has more information than I do, so they are likely making the best decision available to them...with the caveats I offered above and my desire to see those options entirely removed from their repertoire to begin with.
vw_fan17 - Wednesday, July 09 2025 @ 11:54 PM EDT (#463359) #
So was that like a -1.95 WPA for Vlad this game or something?
mendocino - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 12:55 AM EDT (#463360) #
Robertson to White Sox
John Northey - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 12:56 AM EDT (#463361) #
Well, the Jays left the White Sox a gift as they left - Will Robertson to the White Sox via MLBTradeRumors.  No mention on what the Jays get back (probably just cash or some low A reliever or something). Hopefully Robertson gets a real shot at the bigs now.
Eephus - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:03 AM EDT (#463362) #
do I feel a *little* more comfortable going in the zone knowing that it isn't my ERA on the line?

I can speak from my own pitching experience, plus I think Dirk Hayhurst also mentions something similar in his first book, in that allowing somebody else's runs to score is an even worse feeling than giving up your own. At least when it's completely on your record, you earned the blemish. It's all yours. 

Whether or not it makes pitchers slightly more aggressive in throwing strikes... entirely possible, although I'd think it more likely because the absolute last thing you'd ever want to do is walk your teammate's runs in.  
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:14 AM EDT (#463363) #
We'll get a better prospect back than we gave up for Pina.
John Northey - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 02:02 AM EDT (#463364) #
Pina was for Colby Martin - a 24 year old reliever in A/A+ with 5.7 BB/9 this year vs 11.7 K/9 16th rounder last year.

It'd be interesting to see how many 24 year old relievers in A ball make the majors. I'm sure a few have, but it'd be rare.
DavidtheDeuce - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 08:05 AM EDT (#463365) #
Hello all! I have been away on vacation for 3 weeks…did I miss anything? :)

What’s that song at the end of the film “Moneyball” - just enjoy the show? Good advice from the young lady.

Go Jays!
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#463366) #
Mitch Bannon offered 4 trade ideas to Jim Bowden at The Athletic.

1. Blue Jays trade RHP Angel Bastardo and RHP Juaron Watts-Brown to Orioles for LHP Gregory Soto and OF Ramón Laureano

Bowden: I’m not sure Orioles GM Mike Elias would want to trade within the division and do the Blue Jays any favors at the deadline with his own job on the line If the Orioles could get Watts-Brown and Bastardo, even with the latter’s health risk, I would make the deal from their perspective.

2. Blue Jays trade OF Alan Roden and LHP Adam Macko to Royals for RHP Seth Lugo

Bowden: they could acquire much better prospects than Roden and Macko from another team.

3. Blue Jays trade SS Arjun Nimmala and RHP Trey Yesavage to Twins for RHP Joe Ryan

Bowden:This is a trade idea that I love for both sides.

4. Blue Jays trade OF Jonatan Clase to Angels for LHP Reid Detmers

Bowden: Los Angeles really doesn’t need another outfielder of his ilk
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#463367) #
Anyone else catch the Bowden piece on the Athletic with Jays trade ideas?

The only move I liked was the Lugo trade
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#463368) #
I loved the Lugo trade, but I agree with Bowden.
mendocino - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#463370) #
Ben Nicholson-Smith@bnicholsonsmith

Will Robertson traded to the White Sox for cash per Jays

----
Joe Doyle@JoeDoyleMiLB
Per @Ken_Rosenthal
, the Baltimore Orioles are receiving the No. 37 pick in the 2025 Draft from the Tampa Bay Rays in the Bryan Baker deal. The pick is worth $2,631,400.

The Orioles now own picks 19, 30, 31 and 37 and have the biggest bonus pool of any team at $19,144,500.
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#463371) #
Mea culpa on Robertson
mendocino - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#463372) #
Jeff Passan@JeffPassan

Free at ESPN: There are 16 teams in MLB over .500. Who are the best fits for them at the trade deadline? An overarching look at the landscape and where baseball stands three weeks before July 31.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45701063/2025-mlb-trade-deadline-addition-top-contenders-tigers-dodgers-cubs-mets-yankees

Toronto Blue Jays
54-39, first place, American League East

Weakness: Starting pitching

Best match: Mitch Keller, Pittsburgh Pirates

Adding Keller solves multiple problems at once. The 29-year-old is producing the best season of his seven-year career with the Pirates, averaging nearly six innings a start and giving up only seven home runs in 106⅓ innings. The Blue Jays need rotation help -- and, in a deal for Keller, could try to get David Bednar, Dennis Santana or Caleb Ferguson from the Pirates to complement an already-good bullpen riding breakouts from Braydon Fisher and Brendon Little.

Further, Keller remains under contract for three years at a reasonable $54.5 million, and with starters Chris Bassitt and Max Scherzer free agents after this year and Kevin Gausman following the 2026 season, Toronto covets controllable starting pitching in a market that, at the moment at least, doesn't offer much.

Pittsburgh could hold onto Keller and march into 2026 with a staff of Keller, Paul Skenes, Mike Burrows, Bubba Chandler and Bailey Falter -- easily a top-10 rotation, maybe better -- with Hunter Barco not far behind. But the Pirates desperately need bats and while Toronto's farm system is not teeming with them, the Blue Jays can cobble together enough to make a deal worth Pittsburgh's while.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#463374) #
Keller's sub-19% K-rate is uninspired for the AL East and too similar to the existing SPs. Hard pass.

Overpay for Edward Cabrera or Joe Ryan.

Or my favorite, Zac Gallen and Ketel Marte... Arizona is kinda cheap and Marte has 6 more years on his contract after 2025.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#463375) #
Keller's numbers should improve with Toronto's elite D. I have no interest in him. Agree to overpay for someone like Ryan or deGrom.

No interest in Gallen or Kelly but if you want to include Marte that changes the calculus immensely (best bat suggested so far other than Jose Ramirez.

I like that offer for Joe Ryan provided the team has confidence to extend him as they did Berrios.
mendocino - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#463376) #
Cabrera and Ryan under control for 3 yrs
Glevin - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#463377) #
I'd do the trade for Ryan if they also included Jax in it even if Jays had to add another lesser prospect. Like others, I'd rather they pay more for a better pitcher than go for mid-level starter. Giving up top-prospects for a guy who is OK seems crazy to me.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#463378) #
Before you criticize a youtube personality, this one has had the best accuracy when it comes to who will be traded and for what over the past 3 years from everyone that I monitor. Jim Riley has the following proposals for Clase:

CHC
Caissie and Wicks for Clase

TOR
Kasevich and Rojas for Clase

LAD
Ferris and Sanchez for Clase

NYM
Vientos and Hamel for Clase

Seems like a low ball offer from TOR for me.
soupman - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#463379) #
Isn’t Rojas the best arm in the system according to many?
Petey Baseball - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#463380) #
If that's all it takes for Clase, then do it now.

I think Keller would have made sense 3-4 years ago when the team was spending high, but was not the top 5 (or even top 3, recently) in payroll. The Ohtani, Soto, pursuits have pushed the Jays beyond the point where they are only looking for controllable guys. I think they are trying to win the World Series every year. Therefore, they might as well hold onto the top prospects until they either develop at the ML level, or you're going after elite players.
GabrielSyme - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#463381) #
A few notes: even accounting for giving some guys additional rest, the lineup yesterday was pretty indifferent to whether the Jays wanted to win that game. If they had lost one or both or the previous two games, Schneider puts a better lineup on the field, but because the series was already won, he somewhat punted the final game. I think this is a pattern - if the Jays win the first couple games of a series, Schneider gives a bunch of regulars the final day off in the last game.

Even though we have a surfeit of outfielders, I'm not impressed by the 40-man roster management that led to the loss of Robertson. Robertson has truly been excellent this season in Buffalo.
Glevin - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#463382) #
Not very interested in Clase. I mean, I like him but not at the cost and would rather a reliever who struck out more guys. I'd prefer Cade Smith or Duran or Jax. Anyway, I'd much rather give up my top prospects for a starter.
metafour - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#463383) #
Robertson turns 28 years old in 6 months time and is blocked behind like 4 other OF prospects who they clearly like more. I fail to see what they should have done, or more importantly, why it matters.

Can we have just one move that passes without overexaggerated complaining?
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#463384) #
The only questionable move IMO was sitting Springer.

There was no way Kirk was going to play a day game after a night game. That isn't a Schneider thing, that's common practice for catchers by all MLB managers.

Clement had played every day and had really cooled off at the plate the past few weeks. He needed a break. As for Springer I would have DH'ed him and rested Vlad. Vlad has been pretty sound this year, but had some poor play recently. A ball clanked off his glove that was generously called a hit, a failed scoop resulting in a Barger error and I thought another although I may be mistaken there, plus getting thrown out at second on that lack of initial hustle, not even "fake hustle" play.

As for Robertson, I agreed with you until I saw the return. Obviously teams, including the Jays, did not value him as highly as you or I did.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#463385) #
Of all the high-level arms in the system, Rojas is the most likely to help out of the pen late this year as a hard-throwing lefty with good control and 3 weapons. Arguably almost as high of a future ceiling as a starter as Yesavaage. More advanced right now.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#463386) #
Marc I was waiting for you to chime in and after soupman's post I feared you would post something like you just did. I had no idea Rojas had this much intrigue or project-ability.

Would you do that trade proposed for Clase (or another controllable elite RP) or is cost to high?

How would you value Rojas vs Yesavage vs Tiedemann vs Nimmala if you were the GM on the other end of the line wanting to build up a nice young core?
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#463387) #
Some Kirky stuff from the ESPN Power Rankings section.

"Alejandro Kirk agreed to a five-year, $58 million deal that flew under the radar in March. Kirk is batting .306 with seven home runs, a .775 OPS and a slim 9.8% strikeout rate -- stout numbers for most any catcher not named Cal Raleigh.

Defensively, he ranks in the 98th percentile in framing, 97th percentile in catching would-be base stealers and 100th percentile in blocking pitches. The early returns on Toronto's modest investment are excellent."
hypobole - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#463388) #
"It'd be interesting to see how many 24 year old relievers in A ball make the majors. I'm sure a few have, but it'd be rare."

Good question, John, here's one:

Age 24 season split between low A and A. Opened his age 26 season in High A. Made the Majors at age 27. This is his 3rd year pitching in the majors and he has 65 saves with a 1.98 ERA. Who?
Mike Green - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#463389) #
It should be noted that Blue Jay pitchers have performed much, much better with Tyler Heineman behind the plate than with Kirk. With Heineman, the ERA is over a run lower, and the slash line and W/K rates are correspondingly better. Heineman has also thrown out 7 of 16 would-be base thieves, and the opponents are hardly trying. Of course, Heineman has been excellent with the bat too.

The catching team has been great. And I have no problem with Jays giving Kirk and another regular a day off on the same day.

Magpie - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#463390) #
Me neither, on game 16 on day 16, day game after a night game, your already overworked catcher and your oldest everyday player. Like, DUH.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#463391) #
I would trade Yesavage over Rojas. Ceilings are perhaps similar but, as mentioned, Rojas, a lefty, has a higher chance of helping in 2025 (in the bullpen) compared to Yesavage. Rojas looked excellent in his first AA start before tiring in the 5th (I believe 2 that scored were inherited runners). He's scoreless through three again tonight.

I definitely would not trade Rojas (or Yesavage) for a reliever - even a high-end one. Two-three years of control on a top starter like Ryan or Cabrera... or a hitter like Ketel Marte, sure I'd offer them Stephen and Watts-Brown but probably cave of Yesavage. Especially if they draft Witherspoon on Sunday.

I don't think Tiedemann is worth as much as people think - until he gets back in games and shows the same stuff he hand prior to injury. That could take until 2026. None of Barriera, Maroudis, or McElvain have looked good in their return.

John Northey - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#463392) #
hypobole - wow, that is cool - easy to find with the hints you gave. 4 years in the DOSL, with a year off in the middle. At 24 had a 3.44 ERA between A/A- with 5.6 BB/9 vs 11.8 K/9 (be ready to duck if you are a hitter vs him then). COVID hit, costing him a year, At 26 went A+/AA/AAA with a 1.54 ERA overall but still 5.8 BB/9 but 14.9 K/9, reached at 27 and never went back, but did miss a year (TJ). Wild again this year at 5.5 BB/9 but still K'ing everyone in sight with 13.2 K/9 (110 in 61 IP in '23 is insane 16.2 K/9 Fastball velocity was listed at 100 MPH that year). Just nuts. Same guy as in the minors. Scary and crazy. Throw 100 MPH and it is a crap shoot if it'll be a strike or not.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#463393) #
FYI Rojas struck out the side twice tonight and had 10 Ks (0 walks, 2 hits) in 5 innings at AA.

I'm the guy that told you about Lazaro Estrada 3 years ago.

Both are very different pitchers but both are definitely big leaguers.
John Northey - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#463395) #
To me Rojas' most impressive part is the 0 walks. Too often you see guys in the minors who K 14 per 9 IP but walk 5+ as well, thus having a massive hole in their skillset which limits them to relieving. If Rojas can keep that control and K ability then he'll be a damn fine starter someday in the majors. Before today he was at 6 BB vs 31 SO in 22 2/3 IP with an ERA sub 2. So now it is 41 K's vs 6 BB in 27 2/3 IP in rookie/A/AA this year. Damn fine.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 10 2025 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#463396) #
Felix Bautista
hypobole - Friday, July 11 2025 @ 12:49 AM EDT (#463397) #
Yeah, it's Bautista.  Yankees just swept Seattle, and just-acquired Bryan Baker turned a 3-1 Tampa lead into a 4-3 loss against the surging Red Sox.  AL East now has all 3 WC spots, with the Mariners dropping a game out. Every other team is under .500 and their chances are slowly dissipating.
scottt - Friday, July 11 2025 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#463401) #
Mariners totally crapped the bed.
Sigh. Losing to them in the wild card series was so embarrassing.
All those relievers with tiny ERAs completely ineffective.
You have to have hide the ball in Yankees Stadium.
Glevin - Friday, July 11 2025 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#463405) #
Good news for the Jays is that A's went 11 innings last night and used 5 relievers including Miller. It's just so annoying how the East is so tough to win and the central is a contest to see who can spend the least. I mean Baltimore is now only 6.5 games back of wildcard. Post All Star game, I expect a few teams to fall out of it and hopefully we can see some trades. I hate expanded playoffs for a lot of reasons but one of them (not biggest by any means) is this.

Manfred has been meeting with teams and is of course pushing a salary cap. Really think there's a good chance of a lockout unfortunately. Most owners don't want to spend and don't want to have to spend to compete. I'd say the vast majority of owners now don't particularly like or even care about baseball. It's just a fantastic moneymaking operation. Players have generally been short-sighted with their fights, spending way too much energy on maximizing free agent deals for a few players and not enough on the unfairness of young stars getting woefully underpaid or teams not spending enough in general. The fight to remove draft pick compensation is a perfect example. I agree it's stupid but it effects maybe 1-5 players a year. Is that the battle you want to sacrifice things for?
scottt - Friday, July 11 2025 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#463407) #
Baltimore is 8 games under .500. Until one team get to .500, it doesn't really matter how close it is to the last wild card spot.
To qualify they would have to pass Boston, KC, Minnesota, Cleveland, Seattle, Texas and Anaheim.

A salary cap would make no difference. The luxury tax is over 300M. If you reduce spending by the big teams, you reduce profit sharing going to the *poor* clubs.
The minimum salary has risen quite nicely. 700K is good money. Not everybody is overpaid at that rate.
The Nats signed DeJohn and Chafin for 1M for 1 year. Rosario for 2M. Riley Adams makes 850K after arbitration.
I don't see the owners wanting to lose money in a strike or lockout.
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