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Long time Jays watchers know all too well that the Gold Standard for bullpen failure was established almost forty years ago.

It's Windy Baseball Lore, for a day with no baseball.

In 1982, the Blue Jays had hired Bobby Cox as their new manager. Cox installed platoon arrangements at multiple positions. Three of them took hold and stuck - catcher (Whitt/Martinez), third base (Mulliniks/Iorg), right field (Powell/Barfield). Cox also tried to establish platoons in LF (Woods/Bonnell) and DH (Revering/Nordhagen), with indifferent results. But mostly, Bobby Cox actually expected his team to compete. And compete they did. Leaning very heavily on three young RH starting pitchers (Stieb, Clancy, and Leal), the Blue Jays flirted with competence for the first time in their history. Actual days passed, as late as August of 1982, when they were within a few games of .500. They ended up tied for sixth with a 78-84 record - but this still represented a big step in the right direction. They did have a problem at DH, but that's the kind of problem that should be comparatively easy to address. And over the winter they addressed it, picking up Cliff Johnson and Jorge Orta on the cheap to form a new DH platoon. Furthermore, in exchange for reliever Dale Murray,  the Jays had obtained outfielder Dave Collins, pitcher Mike Morgan, and a teenaged first baseman named Fred McGriff. (Gillick really should have done some time for that bit of larceny.) Cox again hoped to platoon at five spots - Lloyd Moseby, who had spent his first three seasons hitting .233/.285/.364, would platoon in centre with Barry Bonnell. His four everyday players would be the newly obtained Collins in LF, and the three infielders Upshaw, Garcia, and Griffin.

That was the plan but this new arrangement didn't last very long. This was the year Moseby made his Great Leap Forward, and it was evident almost immediately. Bonnell started six of the first ten games in CF. Moseby had started the other four and also appeared as a defensive replacement, pinch hitter, and pinch runner. He'd gone 5-16, which was decent enough, and in game eleven, on Tuesday 19 April, he started in centre against Cleveland RH Rick Sutcliffe. The Jays fell behind 5-1, but Moseby's second hit of the day was a two run HR off Sutcliffe to cut the lead to 5-4. The Indians stretched the lead again to 7-4. Moseby came up in the eighth, singled for his third hit, and scored on Iorg's double. The Jays went to the bottom of the ninth trailing 7-5, with Cleveland closer Dan Spillner on the mound. With one out, Damaso Garcia singled. He stole second, for no apparent reason, while Jesse Barfield was striking out. But Cliff Johnson homered to tie the game. Buck Martinez singled, and Moseby's fourth hit of the day was a walkoff homer. That was the end of any platoon arrangement in centre field. Cox ran with Moseby from that day forward, and the Shaker simply exploded on the league with a tremendous season

It was astonishing.  I actually remember where I was when Johnson and Moseby hit those homers (at a convenience store known in the neighbourhood as "Dirty Louie's," probably buying cigarettes, radio in my pocket.)  It was astonishing because the Blue Jays never won games like this. They just didn't. For most of the six years of their existence, the Jays had been a sorry joke of a baseball team. Those days were now over, and that early season comeback against Cleveland was the Sign. The Jays played .600 ball over the next two months and change. They weren't just above .500 - they headed into the mid-summer break in first place. The Montreal Expos of blessed memory were also in first place in the NL East, and if memory serves, it was Dave Stieb and Andre Dawson adorning the cover of Sports Illustrated the week of the All-Star game. It was a pretty big deal at the time.

And then they started to fade. The team wasn't actually  losing, they were still doing all right - it's just that the AL East was an incredibly compressed division that year and Detroit and Baltimore, who had been nipping at their heels all along, were just a little bit better and a little bit hotter.  By mid-August, the Jays were had slipped to fifth place, but they were still just 1.5 games back of the first place Tigers. Look, here are the standings at the end of play on Sunday 14 August:

Tm      W     L    W-L%     GB      RS     RA  

DET    65    50    .565    --    564    491
BAL    64    49    .566    --    542    469
NYY    64    51    .557    1.0    560    517 
MIL    64    51    .557    1.0    579    525 
TOR    64    52    .552    1.5    555    507 
BOS    58    57    .504    7.0    554    579 
CLE    49    67    .422    16.5    501    551 

The Jays were about to embark on their longest road trip of the season: four games in Cleveland, four more in Boston, followed by three in Baltimore, and three in Detroit. Fourteen games in fourteen days. They'd get one day off, the Thursday between Cleveland and Boston, but they'd have to play a double-header in Cleveland on the Tuesday preceding.

The trip started out all right. Roy Lee Jackson blew the save behind Jim Gott in the first game, but the Jays won 3-2 on an Upshaw walk with the bases loaded in the ninth. They split the Tuesday double-header, losing the opener 3-2 on Mulliniks' eighth inning error, but rallying from behind to win 9-6 in the nightcap. Joey McLaughlin got the win, and Joey got the win again in extra innings on the following day. This was after he'd first blown the save in the bottom of the ninth. The bottom of the tenth was pretty hairy as well, and Jackson had to bail out Joey before it was over.  But they'd won three of four, and climbed into third place, still 1.5 games back of... let's see, by now it was Milwaukee. That day. On to Boston!

Things didn't start well at Fenway - the Sox cuffed Jim Clancy around and jumped out to a 6-0 lead after two innings. But the Jays scored four times in the third, an Iorg 3-run homer being the key blow. And they scored four more times in the sixth, a two-run single by Bonnell putting them ahead. Jim Acker pitched five shutout innings of relief to get the win, and Jackson closed it out. Eckersley beat Stieb 5-2 on Saturday, thanks to a Rice grand slam. On Sunday afternoon, Jim Gott pitched a complete game and the Jays scored four runs in the final two innings for a 7-3 win. In the Monday night finale, Bob Ojeda beat Doyle Alexander 4-2. Alexander was now 0-8 on the season, and 0-6 since being signed by the Jays in June, three weeks after he'd been given his unconditional release by the Yankees, in the second year of the five year contract he'd signed as a free agent. As a Jay, Alexander had  been alternating hard-luck losses with well-deserved losses. It wasn't yet clear that he had anything left. But the Yankees were on the hook for anything above the major league minimum for the next three years, so there wasn't much harm in finding out.

Even with the two tough losses, one will generally be reasonably happy about splitting four games in Fenway. The Jays now had third place to themselves, 2.5 behind Milwaukee. And so it was on to Baltimore, to face the second place Orioles. And on Tuesday, the upstart Jays beat Mike Flanagan 9-3, thanks in large part to four Baltimore errors. They closed to 1.5 games behind Milwaukee, and one game behind Baltimore.

Jim Clancy and Scotty McGregor hooked up on Wednesday evening. A Todd Cruz error put the Jays ahead 2-1, and in the eighth inning a Buck Martinez sac fly stretched the lead to 3-1. Clancy went to the ninth and got the first out. John Shelby bunted for a hit, but Clancy struck out Gary Roenicke. One out to go. But Clancy walked the light-hitting second baseman, Lenn Sakata. With lefty hitting catcher Joe Nolan due up, Cox summoned his one LH reliever, Dave Geisel. Joe Altobelli sent in Benny Ayala to pinch hit. Ayala singled in one run, and with LH Al Bumbry up next, Geisel faced him as well. Bumbry singled in the tying run. Cox brought in Joey McLaughlin, who got the third out. On to the tenth inning.

But there would first need to be some defensive changes for the Orioles. Joe Nolan hadn't started the game behind the plate - he'd originally pinch hit for starting catcher Rick Dempsey in the seventh inning. This meant that the Orioles were completely out of catchers. They were, in fact, out of position players entirely, and would have to make do with the ones who were already in the game. So second baseman Sakata took over behind the plate, having never played an inning there in his professional career. Left fielders John Lowenstein and Gary Roenicke moved to second base and third base respectively. Lowenstein had played 2b in the majors at the begining of his career, but not once in the previous eight years. Roenicke had played a lot of third base in the minors, but never in the majors, and he hadn't been in the minors since 1978.

Not that any of this seemed to matter all that much after Cliff Johnson led off the top of the tenth with a homer off Tim Stoddard. After Barry Bonnell singled, Altobelli brought in LH Tippy Martinez to pitch to Dave Collins.

Tippy Martinez was a fine pitcher, an important part of the Orioles bullpen for eleven years. While Tippy was very tough to run on, he did not actually have a great pickoff move. As dawn broke on 25  August 1983, Martinez had picked off a total of 7 base runners in his ten seasons in the majors. The last time he had picked off a runner had come exactly two years before (cue spooky organ music) - on 25 August 1981 he nabbed Richie Zisk of the Mariners. But there was one thing that mattered more than anything else - a second baseman was catching for the Orioles, Bonnell was eager to run. Martinez caught him leaning, and picked him off. But then Martinez walked Dave Collins.

Dave Collins was a great base stealer. He'd stolen 79 bases for Cincinnati in 1980, and in the season after this one he would set the Jays team record for stolen bases with 60, a record that stands to this day. And a second baseman was catching for the Orioles. Of course Collins was going to steal second. Until Martinez picked him off first as well, with Willie Upshaw looking on from the batter's box.

Upshaw then grounded a single up the middle, bringing Buck Martinez to the plate. Buck wasn't much of a hitter for most of his career - he lasted 17 seasons in the majors because he was an outstanding defensive catcher. But by happy coincidence, 1983 was the one season Martinez was actually a decent hitter. And of course, he did all his damage against LH pitchers - in 1983, Buck hit .270/.348/.500 against southpaws. But a second baseman was catching for the Orioles, and Upshaw thought stealing second should be pretty simple. Until Martinez picked him off as well. Three men picked off first base in the same inning, a feat unique in the long annals of the game. If it hadn't actually happened, I wouldn't believed it possible. If I hadn't been listening to Tom Cheek describing the carnage in real time, I wouldn't have believed it possible.

But however bewildering the top of the inning had been, the Jays were still taking a 4-3 lead into the bottom of the tenth inning. Having stopped the bleeding in the ninth inning, Joey McLaughlin came back out in the tenth to close it out. Cal Ripken instantly greeted him with a game-tying homer. McLaughlin walked Eddie Murray, and the Orioles bunted him to second. After an intentional walk, Randy Moffit came on to try for the final two outs.

The 1983 Blue Jays did not have a relief ace. It's almost as if the team's official position was "We're not good enough yet to indulge in such luxuries." As soon as they came up with someone who performed impressively out of the pen late in the game, Gillick generally cashed him in for something that would be more useful. They had quickly traded Victor Cruz, a 20 year old who had pitched brilliantly in their pen for the last three months of 1978, to Cleveland. That trade landed them Alfredo Griffin, who'd be the 1979 Rookie of the Year and play shortstop in Toronto for six seasons. And of course, some nine months before this August evening, Gillick had cashed in on the best season of Dale Murray's career and acquired Collins, Morgan, and McGriff.

Maybe this is a good time to note that while Bobby Cox was one of the game's greatest and most successful managers, no one's perfect. Certainly no baseball manager. The one thing Bobby Cox was consistently not particularly good at was building and running a bullpen. Randy Moffit had been a serviceable enough reliever for ten years in San Francisco. Then he turned 30, had some arm problems, pitched badly, got released. He had revived his career in Houston and the Jays signed him as a free agent. For half a season he was wonderful. He scooped up the win in three of his first five appearances, and by mid July he was 4-0 with 9 saves and a 1.96 ERA. And then, in what would be his last season in the majors,  he started to fade. He drifted slowly, but persistently, into mediocrity and then to general ineptitude (he went 2-2, 6.97 the rest of the way.) This night in August was right in the middle of that long slow fade. But Moffit struck out the first man he faced, third baseman for a day Gary Roenicke. Which brought catcher for a day Sakata to the plate. He'd come into the game hitting .230/.287/.310 with 1 home run. He promptly hit his second, a shocking three run blast, for the walk-off win. Milwaukee lost as well, so the Jays remained just 2.5 games off first place, although they now dropped to fourth place as Detroit squeezed by them.

The rubber match with the Orioles saw Dave Stieb and Storm Davis toss zeroes at each other. The game  was scoreless after nine. Tippy Martinez had taken over from Davis after eight, and in the top of the tenth the Jays revenged themselves upon Martinez for the humiliation he'd inflicted on them the previous evening. Sweet. With one out Barry Bonnell, the first of Martinez's pickoff victims, knocked a solo homer. So sweet. The Jays took that 1-0 lead to the bottom of the tenth. Dave Stieb had pitched nine innings of four hit shutout, and Cox went to the pen to close it out. Roy Lee Jackson, obtained from the Mets for Bob Bailor, had given the Jays two fine seasons out of the pen. But his third season was not going so well, his 8-1 record notwithstanding. He had a 4.41 ERA, which was a little high for a reliever, no? While Moffit had early on been called "Vulture" it was much more fitting for Jackson, who had picked up three of his wins by first Blowing the Save and sticking around to collect the W instead. This just wasn't his year, and this wouldn't be his day. Did he hold the 1-0 lead and save Stieb's 14th win. He did not. With one out, Jackson gave up singles to Nolan and Bumbry, and then a walkoff two-run double to Disco Dan Ford. The Jays fell another game behind the Brewers, and were now tied for fourth place with the Yankees, 3.5 games back.

And so on to Detroit, for a weekend at Michigan and Trumbull, that fabled intersection where Detroit's baseball teams had been playing since 1896. The Tigers had been playing in the same stadium since 1912 - it was originally called Navin Field after owner-operator Frank Navin. Navin died, Walter Briggs took over team ownership and renamed the park after himself. From 1938 onward it was Briggs Stadium. But when John Fetzer took over the team in 1961, he renamed it Tiger Stadium, and so it would remain until it was demolished in 2008.

The Jays had one lineup change for this weekend. Damaso Garcia had hurt something - he would miss nine of the next ten games. Iorg replaced him at second base. At least Rance Mullinks, who had also been ailing, was ready to go (his appearance against the Red Sox, featuring his own key error, was his only appearance in the field in a week.)

Jim Gott faced off against Dan Petry, father of Jeff, in the Friday night opener. The Jays struck first with a pair of third inning runs. The Tigers got one back in the bottom half. A Whitt homer in the fifth briefly restored the two run lead, but a two run homer in the bottom half tied it up again. And then the scoring stopped. Aurelio Lopez replaced Petry after eight. but Cox kept his bullpen guys.... in the bullpen. One assumes that he was still traumatized by what had transpired in Baltimore over the previous two days. And so Jim Gott was still on the mound as the bottom of the tenth came around. Gott retired Leach on a groundout. He got Whitaker on another groundout. And then Alan Trammell got Gott, with a walkoff homer to left field. The Jays slipped into fifth place, four games behind the Orioles, who had now seized the AL East lead.

On Saturday afternoon, they made the bleeding stop. For a day. Back to back homers by Mulliniks and Moseby in the eighth inning broke up a 2-2 tie, and gave the Jays a three run lead. Alexander immediately gave up a leadoff homer to Trammell and McLaughlin came in. The Tigers pushed across another run to cut the lead to 5-4, but with two men on base McLaughlin got the third out. The Jays added a couple of insurance runs in the top of the ninth, and Geisel retired the Tigers in order to collect a save. Dour Doyle had his first win as a Jay. He would go 6-0 the rest of the way, and win 17 games in each of the next two seasons (with the Yankees paying for all of it beyond the major league minimum, something that still brings a smile to my face.) Meanwhile, the Jays remained in fifth place, still four games off the lead.

The road trip wrapped up on a Sunday afternoon, and Luis Leal and Jack Morris hooked up in a fine pitcher's duel. With a 2-1 lead, Leal got the first out in the seventh - and came out of the game. I have no idea why - hey, it was 38 years ago. I don't remember everything! Jackson came in and gave up a single to Lemon. Lou Whitaker, getting a day off, came off the bench to pinch hit. Cox called on his one LH, and Geisel got Whitaker to hit into a DP to end the threat. Geisel was still on the mound, and the score was still 2-1 for the Jays when the bottom of the ninth came round. Geisel got the first out, then issued a walk to Parrish. Cox brought in Randy Moffit, who got Wilson to fly out. And then Cox called on Joey McLaughlin. Leach hit a single, and then Chet Lemon walked it off with a three run homer, for Morris' 17th win. And the Jays were now all by themselves in fifth place, five games back of Baltimore. They would never get any closer. They went 18-14 the rest of the way, and finished in fourth place, nine games behind the Orioles, who went on to win the World Series. They'd gone a more than respectable 7-7 on the toughest road trip of the entire year - and somehow their season had been shattered anyway.

The Bums of August were:

Name              W    L    W-L%    ERA    G   SV     IP     H     R     ER   HR    BB   IBB   SO   HBP  WP   BF   ERA+   FIP    WHIP  
Randy Moffitt 6    2    .750    3.77   45  10    57.1    52   27    24    5    24    6    38    1   0    247   115   3.87   1.326
Jim Acker 5    1    .833    4.33   38   1    97.2   103   52    47    7    38    1    44    8   1    426   100   4.20   1.444 
Roy Lee Jackson 8    3    .727    4.50   49   7    92.0    92   48    46    6    41    2    48    3   0    402    96   3.99   1.446
Joey McLaughlin 7    4    .636    4.45   50   9    64.2    63   33    32   11    37    7    47    0   3    285    98   5.23   1.546 
Dave Geisel 0    3    .000    4.64   47   5    52.1    47   28    27    4    31    5    50    2   2    230    94   3.73   1.490  

Moffit was a free agent when the season was over; he made one last professional appearance with Milwaukee's Triple A team. Acker remained with the Jays through July 1986, when he was traded to Atlanta for Joe Johnson. They would trade him back to Toronto in 1989. Roy Lee Jackson had something of a bounce back season in 1984, but was released by the Jays at the end of spring training in 1985. Joey McLaughlin was released in May 1984, and finished his career with Texas. Dave Geisel was drafted by Seattle in the Rule 5 draft in December 1983.

These guys didn't constitute the Jays' bullpen because ten pitchers had gone on the DL. The team had weighed their options, and chosen these five guys. Moffit had been a free agent, Acker was acquired in the Rule 5 draft, Jackson came over in the trade for Bob Bailor. McLaughlin had come along with Bonnell in the Chris Chambliss trade, and Geisel was the player to be named later when the Jays sent Paul Mirabella to the Cubs. The team had five starters and five relievers - and really, why would anyone need more pitchers than that?

Those were the days.

I rather think that the 2021 Blue Jays are at roughly the same point in the building cycle as the 1983 Jays were. It was a young team that had made a sudden lurch toward respectability in the previous season, having completely stunk up the joint in the year before that. It was the year that a number of young players who would be key parts of the good teams that followed began to establish themselves as quality players: in addition to Moseby, Jesse Barfield hit 27 HRs in a platoon role and George Bell made it back up to the majors. A 21 year old shortstop named Tony Fernandez made his major league debut. Moseby, Bell, and Barfield were all 23 years old. Dave Stieb and Alfredo Griffin were 25, Damaso Garcia, Willie Upshaw, and Luis Leal were 26. Rance Mulliniks and Jim Clancy were 27. The 1983 Jays weren't quite as young as this year's bunch, but the lineup had only Dave Collins, the catchers, and the designated hitters on the wrong side of 30.

They had come a long way, they had a long way to go, and they weren't there yet, not by a long shot. But they were on their way.

And trust me - those of us who actually lived through that week in 1983 can withstand just about any punishment this team tries to throw at us.
The Bums of August | 24 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 07:47 AM EDT (#400605) #
Thanks, Magpie, for the memories.

My son says that "happiness= performance-expectations".  Expectations for the 1983 Jays were nothing like the 2021 version of the club.  They had not signed the 1983 versions of George Springer and Marcus Semien.  They had not made the playoffs the previous year (granted that 1982 was a typical season rather than the slapdash version of baseball we got in 2020).  So, the 1983 Jays ultimately brought great happiness despite the miserable stretch in August.  The 2021 club will have to perform the rest of the season to bring happiness...
Magpie - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#400607) #
I can't remember what I expected from the 1983 team. Probably something like what I expected from this year's group - continued improvement, sure. Better than .500, sure. Top of the division? Seems unlikely. But then they hit the All-Star Break in first place, and got our hopes up.

While this year's team recent bullpen travails naturally sent my mind reeling back to those awful days in August 1983, I certainly had no intention of writing about it and thus reliving the entire dreadful experience. But then the title just popped, unbidden, into my mind. And I was left with no choice.
mathesond - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#400608) #
Thanks Magpie,

For me, the strongest memory of the '83 season is the double-header vs. the Yankees on Aug 2 - still the most electric sporting event I have attended (granted, I was 13, so it certainly was the most electric I had felt up to that time).

I also remember the Jays sweeping the Rangers coming out of the ASB (I was at the Stieb-Sutcliffe finale on the Sunday). If memory serves, the Rangers were in 1st in the AL West at the time.
Magpie - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#400609) #
the double-header vs. the Yankees on Aug 2

The Jays tied the first game in the bottom of the ninth with three singles and a sac fly against Goose Gossage himself, and won it in ten. In the second game, Matt Williams made his ML debut as the Jays starter and got the W, and the Jays abused Dale Murray in both games. The trade that kept on giving!
bpoz - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#400610) #
Thanks Magpie.
92-93 - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#400611) #
Fun read, thanks.

Those standings are crazy, the AL West must've been terrible.

Yep, Chicago won 99 and the rest of the division was under .500. Wow.
John Northey - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#400614) #
Very weird year - it was the first that I followed the Jays to any serious degree, 1984 I was trying to get most games on TV or radio, 1985 I listened to or watched every game (even while working a summer job - it was outdoors so I could use a radio). I remember how exciting it was when TSN showed up in 1984 and had 30-40 games a year on TV in addition to CBC and CTV having around 20 combined. Different era. Had to buy Baseball America to get minor league stats, USA Today once a week had 'full' ML stats. Found Bill James Baseball Abstract around this time at the local library and devoured every page. Found a 1981 Baseball Encyclopedia with stats from 1876 to 1981 at a garage sale or used book store and still have it today. I read it cover to cover, every stat, every detail I could. When you are 14 and fall for something you fall hard.

In 1983 despite a WAR of 7.0 Stieb didn't get a single vote for Cy Young. 6 different guys did, none with more than 5.5 bWAR (Dan Quisenberry who came in 2nd to LaMarr Hoyt who won thanks to a great offense that gave him 24 wins despite throwing fewer innings than Stieb and allowing 0.62 more runs per 9 IP - 3.7 WAR). Gross injustice that year. Stieb easily could've won 4 in a row if voters weren't so addicted to how much run support a pitcher got (IE: wins). as he had 6.8 to 7.9 WAR each year from 1982 to 1985. He was 1st in WAR for pitchers 3 of those 4 years - the only year he missed was 1985 when he won the ERA title (but was 14-13 due to horrid luck). In those 13 losses in 1985 he had game scores of 60+ 4 times, 50+ 4 more times. 6 quality starts (6+ IP 3 or fewer ER). In his 9 no decisions 8 were quality starts (!), 6 had game scores of 60+ (one was a 73), 3 more in the 50's, just one stinker (2 2/3 IP 4 R 3 ER). 1985 saw 19 games with 60+ game scores (should've been wins but was 10-4 and 5 ND), 4 40 or less (should be losses 1-2 with 1 no decision, the win was a 9-5 win where he only went 5 1/3 IP 5 ER), and 13 in the 40-59 range (could go either way but actual was 3-7 with 3 no decisions). Yeah, Stieb could've been a HOF'er with any luck. 3 or 4 Cy's, 3-5 no hitters (3 times broken with 2 out in the 9th plus 1 he actually had plus another he reached the 9th with). 200+ wins. Instead he ended with 175 wins, no Cy's and 1 No Hitter. Remembered as an excellent pitcher who 'didn't know how to win' (of course, his attitude towards teammates didn't help - he'd act like Stripling did the other day multiple times a game, and NEVER would apologize).
Magpie - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#400615) #
If memory serves, the Rangers were in 1st in the AL West at the time.

Is that possible? After all, the White Sox were the only AL West team to finish above .500?

It is possible, and your memory serves you well. Texas was 44-33 at the Break, the Jays swept them, and plunged them into a three month slump! They finished third, 77-85.

The Angels were in second place, and the White Sox were third at 39-37. But the Angels also faded, and LaRussa's crew went 60-26 in the second half, and won the division by 20 games.
Nigel - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#400616) #
As I remember the old AL West in the early to mid 80's, there were a number of years where almost the entire division was terrible and 5 or 6 AL East teams were beating each other silly playing .550-.600 ball. The more things change the more they stay the same.
uglyone - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#400620) #
Great stuff, Magpie.....but i'm not sure I agree that this team is younger than that one.


Guerrero 22 --- Barfield 23
Bichette 23 --- Moseby 23
Springer 31 --- Johnson 35
Semien 30 ----- Whitt 31
Teoscar 28 ---- Upshaw 27
Grichuk 29 ---- Bonnell 29
Biggio 26 ----- Garcia 26
Gurriel 27 ---- Mulliniks 27
Jansen 26 ----- Griffin 25

Panik 30 ----- Orta 32
Tellez 26 ----- Iorg 26
Davis 29 ------ Collins 30
McGuire 26 ---- Martinez 34

Kirk 22 ------- Bell 23
Moreno? 21 ---- Fernandez 21

Adams 25 ------ Petralli 23
Espinal 26 ---- Klutts 28
Palacios 25 --- Powell 28



Ryu 34 -------- Stieb 25
Ray 29 -------- Clancy 27
Matz 30 ------- Leal 26
Stripling 31 -- Alexander 32
Manoah 23 ----- Gott 23
Pearson 24 ---- Acker 24

Merryweather 29 - Jackson 29
Romano 28 ----- McLaughlin 26
Dolis 33 ------ Moffit 34
Chatwood 31 --- Giesel 28
Payamps 27 ---- Morgan 23
Thornton 27 --- Clarke 22
Castro 26 ----- Williams 23
Kay 26 -------- Cooper 27



Maybe a tick older in the position players, due pretty much only to the old DH. But with a much younger pitching staff.
Dewey - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#400622) #
What I remember most clearly from that series is, after a McLaughlin Meltdown, seeing Rance Mulliniks begin to walk to the pitcherís mound from third base; then stop, think better of it, and sag dejectedly back to third. Consolation, encouragement, even sympathy were simply not available.

Horrible game, but useful training for next seasonís series in Detroit at the end of the year.
Magpie - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#400626) #
Maybe a tick older in the position players, due pretty much only to the old DH. But with a much younger pitching staff.

Two old DHs, two old catchers. But that's about right. It's difficult to do a direct comparison player to player because the rosters are structured somewhat differently, and the 1983 team was blissfully free of injury.

The stability of the 1983 lineup just boggles my mind these days. It normally consisted of 15 position players and 10 pitchers. And from Game 1 through Game 162, 13 of 15 those position players and 8 of those 10 pitchers were in uniform and ready to go. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but in retrospect, it seems utterly amazing.

There just weren't very many roster moves required. In July, they released OF Hosken Powell and called up George Bell. In August they sent Mickey Klutts, the 15th man who never played, down to Syracuse because they needed an extra pitcher for the double headers. That was it for roster moves. Fernandez, Webster, and Petralli were all September callups.

On the mound, eight pitchers were there all year. Cox began with the same four man rotation from 1982. They didn't have Alexander yet. Mike Morgan was there and he made some spot starts. Morgan and Geisel both went on the DL in June. Stan Clarke came up to be the bullpen LH, and they picked up Alexander off the scrap heap, which was when Cox finally went to a five man rotation. Clarke went back to Syracuse when Geisel was healthy. Matt Williams came up in August to deal with the doubleheaders, Clarke and Cooper came up in September.
Magpie - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#400627) #
The 1983 team lineup was the 15th youngest in franchise history (this year's is 6th youngest) but the only reason it's as high as that is the presence of the two very old pros: Cliff Johnson, in his 12th season, and Buck Martinez in his 14th. This year's group of position players has nothing equivalent to that, but otherwise they do have a lot in common.

The 1983 staff was remarkably young, especially compared to this year's. The four guys who pitched the most this year are aged 29, 30, 31, and 34 (Ray, Matz, Stripling, Ryu.) The four guys who pitched the most in 1983 were aged 23, 25, 26, 27 (Gott, Stieb, Leal, Clancy.) But only two of those four were still around to face the Royals just two years later. Gott and Leal were gone, and almost the entire bullpen had been replaced. (You can imagine why!)
John Northey - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#400631) #
Hadn't really thought of it but Moreno has some similarities to the Fernandez situation all those years ago - both in minors showing they are probably ready but the club is determined to play lesser guys (Jansen/McGuire now, Griffin then) ahead of them. Kirk is a wildcard in the mix now (no equivalent back then) as he could be the Fernandez equivalent. Jays might be testing Moreno at 3B now to see if he can convert quickly and extend his career while filling a hole on the team leaving Kirk/Jansen/McGuire/Adams behind the plate.
John Northey - Monday, June 21 2021 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#400633) #
For a minor diversion...

All-Star update: Vlad still 1st with 49% of the 1B vote, Semien 1st at 2B with 35% (14 ahead of Jose Altuve), Bo is 2nd at SS with 18% (lead by Xander Bogaerts with 30%), in the OF Herandez is 5th with 5%, Grichuk 7th with 4% - 3rd has 7% so they still have a shot. At DH Gurriel Jr is 5th with 6% (leader is Shoehei Ohtani with 35% - he really should have a lot more). Cheering on Freddie Freeman (played for Team Canada a few years ago due to having Canadian parents) who is 2nd at 1B in the NL with 17% to Max Mundy's 22%. To vote go to MLB and you can vote 5 times a day. I did my 5 for today.

Would love to have 3 Jays or more start. 1983 had 3 Expos start the game (Carter, Raines, Dawson - HOF'ers all with Expos caps on). Jays only starter was Dave Stieb on the mound (no Jays were voted in until 1987 when Bell won MVP). In fact Stieb was the only Jay that year on the team. The Expos also had Steve Rogers on the team that year. 1984 had Stieb start again, with the Expos Charlie Lea opposing him. Gary Carter caught again. Damaso Garcia was on the bench with Alfredo Griffin (last minute substitute who got in due to no other ML'ers being there who could fill in - he was there to cheer on his friend Garcia). At the time of the game Griffin was hitting 241/250/317 and finished at 241/248/298 - he was who he was - the flukiest All-Star ever. 1993 had the most starters for the Jays (Olerud, Alomar, Carter, Molitor) plus many on the bench (White, Hentgen, Ward).

Always fun to look back at the old Jays. More fun though to dream of what the new kids will do. Hoping for a couple big trades to fill in the pen (although it will be better with Dolis, Borucki, and Merryweather all close to coming back but I'd love to see at least 2 more acquisitions). 3B is the only real hole in the lineup (maybe LF with Gurriel not having a great year and Grichuk coming back to normal for him). I'm wondering if Moreno might get called up if Kirk and Jansen aren't back soon. His 388/438/690 line would be nice up here.
jerjapan - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 06:23 AM EDT (#400636) #
Just saying how great it is that these pieces are titled 'Windy Baseball Lore'.  I forget who first used that phrase, but it was an expression of frustration, and now, it's a topic I look forward to.  Well done.   
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#400637) #
I think I may have coined the term. Happy to see that it's being put to good use!
scottt - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#400640) #
Frustration? I thought it only meant to announce a long winded post.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#400647) #
I took it as an expression of a certain level of exasperation one might feel if one checked in here to see what people were saying about the Blue Jays only to encounter 11,000 words about the 1920 season.

But it was one of the most significant seasons in the game's history! it was... oh, never mind!
John Northey - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 10:33 AM EDT (#400648) #
Ah, 1920 - the year the AL switched from a Red Sox league to a NYY league. The Red Sox had won 5 WS pre-1920, wouldn't even get there again until 1946, then 1967, 1975, 1986. It wasn't until 2004 when they finally won again. 4 titles in the 2000's so far. I'd say time for another 80+ year gap in titles for them :)

The Yankees pre 1920 never finished above 2nd place. Made it to the WS 6 times, 3 wins, in the 20's, 5 times (all wins) in the 30's, 5 times in the 40's (4 wins), 8 times in the 50's (6 wins), 5 times in the 60's (2 wins) then a big slump from 1965 to 1975 with no playoffs, then 3 straight WS appearances, 2 titles, made it to the WS in 1981 (lost), then no playoff appearances at all from 1982 to 1994 (first when the strike hit) and had 3 WS appearances in the 90's (all wins), 4 WS in the 00's (2 wins), the 10's were the first decade the Yankees didn't make it to the World Series since the 1910's (despite 7 playoff appearances). Lets hope that keeps going.
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#400650) #
Magpie, you're welcome for the pithy phrase.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#400653) #
Indeed. I think it captures exactly what I bring to the table!
bpoz - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#400655) #
A few thoughts and questions about the comparison of those 80s Jays and our current young players.

1) I believe we had a lot of good catchers. Whitt, Buck, Cerone and Ashby come to mind. All successful. We have a good group now. They may become successful.

2) The 80s pen probably needed 8 pitchers to get through the year. Our 2020s pen seems to need 16? to get through a season. Seems impossible to me.

3) The NY Mets rotation has deGrom, Stroman and Walker being durable and doing well so far. Stieb, Key and Clancy for the 80s Jays. Current jays have a temporary Ryu, Ray and Matz with help from Stripling and Manoah.

4) Health is an important ingredient. All of baseball currently seems injury prone.

5) 2 young players we gave up were Glen Allan Hill and Mark Whiten. C Fielder too. I don't know what we got for them. Not much?
We have Moreno, Groshans and Martin. If they turn out as well as Hill, Whiten and Fielder or hopefully better, I assume we use them to sustain the strong core like Olerud and Gruber coming in later.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 22 2021 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#400662) #
View the graphic on twitter - well worth it:

Red = guys with large recent drops in RPMs
Orange = guys with smaller recent drops in RPMs
Blue = everyone else
(10-day rolling MLB fourseam fastball avgs)

100+ FBs before 6/8, 20+ since
~1/6 of pitchers in red, ~1/6 in orange, ~2/3 in blue@PitchingNinja @enosarris @jaysonst pic.twitter.com/VrHE0jLSjd

— Codify, Inc. (@CodifyBaseball) June 22, 2021
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