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Baseball still has the best All-Star Game, although the tall foreheads who run the game have been doing their level best to remove all its mystique.

For those of you who've forgotten, let me review exactly why baseball has always had - and should still have - the best such exhibition.

First off, forget the NFL. No one cares about football after the championship has been decided. Granted, I barely care before but that's neither here nor there.

Baseball's all-star game is far better than the NBA and NHL all-star games, which at least are also staged in mid-season. And that's because it looks like real baseball. With a zillion substitutions, true - but what's actually happening on the field looks exactly like regular baseball.

But in the NHL and the NBA, two things happen and they happen in both games. First of all, as played in the modern age, both sports depend hugely on defensive systems, on team defense. This stuff goes out the window when the game is being played by players who never play together. In the NBA all-star game, you can't take 5 guys at random from 5 different teams, and expect them to rotate smoothly on defense. This applies, although probably not quite as much, in the NHL - where certainly every club also has a defensive system that they attempt to practise.

In addition, in both the NHL and the NBA, an "exhibition-game" mentality is in place. Which in these cases, means we're going to have a non-contact game. No hard fouls, no smearing someone up against the boards or giving them a two-hander in front of the net. This is why you get NBA all-star games where the losing team might score 150 points, and NHL all-star games where the losing team might score 8 goals. It doesn't seem at all like a regular game, let alone a well-played one, let alone one involving the best players in the league. It looks like a pick-up game.

Baseball doesn't have these problems. There are aspects of team defense to baseball, but it's not that complicated. Teams pretty much figured out how to relay throws from the outfield in the 1880s. Middle infielders turning a double play involves a pretty minimal level of team work. Most of what we know as defense in baseball takes place on the pitcher's mound; the next most important item is an individual player's ability to react quickly and properly to a ball put in play. These guys are all members of the same team, but what they do at specific moments often does not at all require what we generally think of as "team work."

Finally, baseball is a non-contact game most of the time anyway. There are really only three opportunities in the game for contact and collision: 1) a fielder making contact with some part of the stadium, like an outfield wall: 2) a thrown baseball making contact with the hitter; 3) a baserunner making contact with a fielder. These really aren't large parts of the game, anyway. They do happen quite regularly in regular play, and sometimes they can be very significant. But we don't miss them when they're not around. Their absence doesn't distort the game, the way the lack of physical defense completely distorts a hockey game or a basketball game.

Everybody is just playing, and everybody is still competing. Everyone wants to show that they deserve to be there. The pitchers still want to get the hitters out, the hitters are still trying to get a hit, the fielders are still trying to make a play. And that's baseball. That's almost all there is to the game at any time.

This mere exhibition game has provided some of baseball's most famous and legendary moments - Carl Hubbell and Fernando Valezuela fanning the best hitters the other league had to offer. Ted Williams and Reggie Jackson hitting home runs. Dave Parker throwing from the outfield, Pete Rose running the bases. Bo Jackson being Bo Jackson. An exhibition game!

Baseball's All-Star Game used to have a mystique. Players who never played against each other during the season would meet just this one time every year. Bud Selig put an end to that with inter-league play. Which has its own appeal, I suppose, but the All-Star Game hasn't been quite the same since. And this year - they're wearing special All-Star uniforms?  Players wearing their team colours was one of the cooler things about the game, something you could never do in hockey where stuff is going on so fast that the players on the ice think of their teammates as "guys wearing the same colour." And now, special uniforms? Up with this I will not put.

Ah, let's face it.  It's just the All Star Break now, a chance to take in gimmicky productions like the Home Run Derby (I await the introduction of additional skills competitions), a time to pause and reflect on what happened in the first half, look forward to the second half.

I'm just an Old Fogey moaning about the way things used to be, and how change of any sort is a rebuke to my continued existence. Shamelessly recycling my own greatest hits.
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Chuck - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#402393) #
I'm just an Old Fogey

In the early 1970s, the all-star game was such a can't miss event that I forced the family to schedule camping trips around it. Now, I can barely be bothered to watch even an inning or two.

Replacing scarcity with abundance is generally not a bad thing. Getting to see any game you want, whenever you want, on a huge TV, is preferable to one game a week on a crummy TV (black and white with vertical hold issues). This cannot be argued and I am most certainly not doing that.

However, scarcity can cause you to appreciate things in a way that abundance can't. And for every passing generation, what was once scarce is no longer (though our instincts for over-consumption may change all this). I grew up taking many things for granted, things that were scarce in my parents' time. Every generation sees the world through the prism of its baseline. The all-star game, in my childhood, was valued because it addressed a scarcity. It has long ago stopped scratching any particular itch of mine.

Leaside Cowboy - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#402399) #
Congratulations to Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Marcus Semien, Teoscar Hernández, and Bo Bichette.

The 91st MLB All Star Game will be played at Coors Field in Denver, Colorado.

Opening Day April 26th, 1995 was the first game played at Coors Field.  The New York Mets take the lead 9-8 in the top of the 14th inning.  The home half: Joe Girardi singles; Larry Walker strikes out swinging; Andrés Galarraga reaches on error; Dante Bichette hits a come-from-behind walk-off three-run homer.  Rockies win 11-9.

The Rockies won the first 5 games ever played at Coors Field, including 3 walk-offs.  Notable games at the ballpark include Hideo Nomo pitching a no-hitter on September 17th, 1996 and Ichiro Suzuki recording his 3,000th MLB hit on August 7th, 2016.

Field dimensions from left-to-right: 347, 390, 415, 375, 350.  Capacity: 50,144.  The 20th row of the upper deck is a line of purple seats, exactly one mile above sea level. (Same feature as Mile High Stadium, where the Rockies played in 1993 and 1994.)  Coors Field includes smoking areas.  It is illegal to smoke marijuana in public in the State of Colorado.

Larry Walker's number 33 will be retired on August 21, 2021.

hypobole - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#402413) #
I'm totally with Chuck on this one. MLB rarely, if ever, aces anything. But even if they aced the All-Star game, it just can't have the allure of years past.

I'm sorry, MLB All-Star game, that our relationship won't ever again be what it once was. It's not you, it's me.
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#402416) #
Players wearing their team colours was one of the cooler things about the game

Yeah, seriously. The uniforms this year are hideous, too. It was cool and colourful when everyone wore their own unis.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#402419) #
It's very strange - after all, usually us Old Fogeys are just completely full of crap if we talk about how much better things were in the Olden Times. We're either lying or sadly deluded.

But it sure is fun sometimes to frighten the young 'uns. "We didn't have cell phones in our day. We didn't have computers. We didn't even have calculators. We had to do long division..."
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#402420) #
I like that the Jay players have a Canadian flag on their uni's (right hand side, just below the Nike swoosh). Still would much prefer they just wore their usual uniforms though. Baseball is the only team sport you can get away with that in.
Leaside Cowboy - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#402421) #
Taking a glance at players born in Colorado: Chase Headley was the best hitter. Among pitchers, Doc Halladay and Goose Gossage are Hall of Famers. Kevin Gausman and Mark Melacon are playing for the National League tonight. The other name that jumps out is Tippy Martinez.
Polite Nate - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#402422) #
Vladdy please don't murder Max Scherzer we might need him later this season!
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#402425) #
Love that it is 2 to 0 and both runs came via Jay RBI's. Monster homer from Vlad, and a tiny infield single for Semien.
mathesond - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#402426) #
If I heard the announcer correctly, Vlad has seen a total of 3 pitchers over his 3 at-bats. Kinda surprised he's seen that many...
hypobole - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#402427) #
3 Jays with hits in the game. Has it happened before?
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#402429) #
3 Jays with hits in the game. Has it happened before?

Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#402430) #
You probably want to know when!
It was 1993: White went 1-2, Carter went 1-3, and Alomar went 1-3 with the only HR hit by a Jays all-star before tonight. (Which was what I was looking for!)
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#402431) #
Trivia question: 17 Blue Jays pitchers have played in the All-Star Game (let's shake our heads sadly for Dave Lemanczyk, Ricky Romero, Marcus Estrada, and Marcus Stroman - all named to the team but didn't get to play.)

Which Jays pitcher had the longest outing in an All-Star Game?
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#402432) #
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#402433) #
I wanna guess Stieb, but it feels like the obvious guess - games were more played-to-win, Less bullpen usage overall, and ASGs weren't the merry-go-round of getting everybody in.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#402434) #
Not Roger.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#402435) #
Not Stieb. He appeared in 7 All-Star Games, more than any other Blue Jay. Two of them were starts - he went 1-1, 1.69 in 10.2 IP. But his longest outing was 2 IP, which was topped on one occasion.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#402436) #
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#402437) #
Morris didn't make the All-Star game as a Jay.

John McNamara was the manager.
Polite Nate - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#402438) #
Pat Hentgen? I wanna say it was someone Cito would have been managing.
blu-j - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#402439) #
For some reason I'm feeling like I remember a longer outing at some point for a Jay back in the good old days....maybe Hentgen?
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#402440) #
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#402441) #
(If no one gets it, I'll provide the answer after the top of the ninth.) I went scrolling through all the games looking for another Jays homer, and only found Alomar in 1993. Other stuff:

Alomar, Joe Carter, and Jose Bautista each played in five games, most of any Jays players. (Bautista also had a DNP.) Carter went 5-11, Alomar 3-14, Bautista 1-7.

Roy Halladay pitched in 4 games, missed one with an injury, and had one DNP. His appearances didn't go well - 10.50 ERA in 6 IP.

Stieb, Jimmy Key, and B.J. Ryan got wins, Stieb took a loss, and J.A. Happ of all people had a save.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#402442) #
Not Hentgen, not Doc.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#402443) #
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#402444) #
It wasn't Diamond Jim.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#402445) #
Lol. What the heck.
Thomas - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#402446) #
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#402447) #
OK, has to be Key then.
Thomas - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#402448) #
Oh, I missed the McNamara clue.
cascando - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#402449) #
The Terminator
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#402450) #
You're gonna say Henke's 1987 2.2 inning stint (what?!), but Stieb pitched 3 IP in his win vs Atlee Hammaker in '83. I had to check after I guessed - that was the game I was thinking was the most-likely, even though it was 5 years before my baseball-watching age.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#402451) #
We have a winner!

In 1987, Tom Henke became the first pitcher ever named to an All-Star team with 0 (zero!) wins in the regular season. Which is how many he ended up with when the season was over.

He relieved Righetti with one out in the top of the ninth, runner on third, scored tied 0-0. He got out of the jam, and when the AL put runners on first and second in the bottom of the inning, it looked for a moment like he might get the win in the All-Star game. But Harold Reynolds hit into a DP and Henke came back out for the 10th. And then he pitched the 11th. And we were all screaming at our TVs and casting serious aspersions of John McNamara's ancestry.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#402452) #
Aw crap, I read it as 2 IP. Sorry!

And lower Stieb's all-star ERA to 1.54.
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#402453) #
The Henke outing (what?!) was a better story, though, so it was a happy mistake. Also, the longest of any AL pitcher since (well, til I got bored of looking at so many 1IP appearances on the early 2010s, so youneverknow. I mean George Sherrill pitched 2.1 in 2008).
cascando - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#402454) #
I don't remember the 1987 game, but recall hearing that Henke had once pitched 2+ innings in an all star game that year that Bud Selig decided to call the game a tie.

I was going to say that was an old timey Buck Martinez "back in my day story", but I think Buck might have been the Jays manager at the time.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:15 PM EDT (#402455) #
It would have been an even better story if Reynolds had driven in a run and gotten Tom the win. It would be like Eric Gagne's one blown save in 2003 coming in the all-star game. But better.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#402456) #
I remember loving that '87 ASG - Tim Raines in the year he should've got MVP driving in the winning run in extra innings. What fun! A shame his managers were determined to make him a #3 hitter instead of just the 2nd best leadoff ever.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#402457) #
I thought I'd check and see what other options McNamara had. Jay Howell eventually relieved Henke and lost the game. Also available in the pen were Bruce Hurst of the Red Sox and Mike Witt of the Angels. Witt had pitched 7 IP on the Sunday and probably wasn't really available. But Hurst, from McNamara's own Red Sox, had last pitched on the Friday before.
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#402458) #
Of course, it was no worse than what Jimmy would do to Henke on Aug 31st, pitching him 4 innings against the Angels, after pitching an inning the day before.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:38 PM EDT (#402459) #
1987 was a different time - 4 IP on August 31st for Henke (blew the save and got the loss), 3 2/3 on July 1st in a 6-1 loss (1 day rest) in extras. He pitched July 3rd and blew another save and lost the game (1 1/3 IP, 2 ER). September 2nd was his next game after the 4 IP one - blown save (1 out, 1 hit a home run). I doubt many said Jimy Williams was a good manager. In fact I view him as one of the worst we've seen.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#402460) #
I looked up the game - he came out for the 8th inning and kept pitching until he gave up a run in the 11th and lost.

Jimy gave him his longest career outing the year before. Henke relieved Cerutti in the 8th but gave up a two run HR to Lynn to blow the save in the 9th. As punishment, he then pitched the 10th, 11th, and 12th. Finally Luis Aquino took over in the 13th and instantly lost the game.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#402461) #
Well, now Vlad Jr has more All-Star RBI's than his dad. Vlad Sr in 9 games, 20 PA only drove in 1 via his home run. A total of 5 hits, 3 runs scored - 250/250/400 line. Vlad Jr now is 1 for 3 with 1 run scored, 2 RBI's 333/333/1.333 for a 1.667 OPS. One ASG MVP vs his dad's zero.

Just noticed, from 2015-2022 6 of the 7 ASG's will be in NL parks. Plus 2026 is set for an NL park (Philly). Kind of odd as only once before did they have 2 in a row in the same league (2006-2007 both NL parks), but now we'll have had 4 NL in a row, then an AL, then at least 2 NL in a row. Weird.
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#402462) #
Thankfully my watching happened to largely coincide with the start of the Cito era. Looking at some of these box scores, it really looks like Williams felt he was the smartest person in the room (but wasn't).
uglyone - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#402463) #
Youngest allstar mvp of all time.

For a meaningless award, it feels pretty meaningful!
John Northey - Tuesday, July 13 2021 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#402464) #
Yeah, Williams did a lot of screwy things. From playing Cecil Fielder at 3B/2B (only a fool would've done that), to playing Garth Iorg everyday in a pennant race despite his OPS being sub 50. Playing Upshaw at 1B with an 87 OPS+ despite having McGriff and Fielder on the team, giving 97 innings to a rule 5 guy who had a 90 ERA+, making Henke throw 4 innings one game after he pitched the night before, and that was just in 1987 (when the team finished 2 games out in the end). He (with Gillick's help) followed that up with the 'make the league MVP a DH to make room for a kid who hasn't played in the majors and wasn't that impressive in the minors' - OPS of 687-902-772-784 in the 4 years before being handed the job in CF. Moronic. Jays again finished 2 games out so safe to say the drama that created cost a division title. Meanwhile the Toronto media was begging the Jays to steal Lou Piniella from the Yankees to manage, and Cito was sitting on the bench probably going 'what an idiot' every game.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#402465) #
Just double checked, and I was partially wrong about Iorg - he was platooning with Rance Mulliniks in September while Kelly Gruber mostly sat, coming in for defense now and then. What a dogs breakfast. Gruber wasn't lighting the world on fire (77 OPS+) but was a far superior player to Iorg on his last legs.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#402466) #
A shame his managers were determined to make him a #3 hitter instead of just the 2nd best leadoff ever.

It was mostly Buck Rodgers in the years 1986-90, generally because he had someone else he wanted to try at the top for half a season or so - Otis Nixon, Dave Martinez, Delino DeShields. Plus Raines was a helluva #3 hitter. He started 374 games hitting third, 258 hitting second, and 1397 leading off.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#402467) #
Williams did a lot of screwy things.

Ah, Jimy. I think I've said that I'm pretty sure Cito Gaston's basic philosophy of managing was to ask himself "What would do Jimy do?" and then not do that.

Williams was a compulsive juggler, a guy always trying to ride the hot hand, a guy with no patience, who couldn't stick with his own decisions. But there are managers who have been wildly, wildly successful as compulsive jugglers - Casey Stengel, obviously, and Joe Torre had a lot of that gene as well.

Granted, Stengel and Torre were wildly unsuccessful everywhere they went except in New York. But it sure worked for them there.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 12:51 AM EDT (#402468) #
Vlad is the first Blue Jay to win an All-Star MVP. Alomar did in 1998 but as an Oriole. Fred McGriff in 1994 but for Atlanta. In 1981 Gary Carter did as an Expo and in 1984 as a Met. 1987 Tim Raines for the Expos. Not much for MVP's from the 2 Canadian teams. 2 for the Expos, 1 for the Jays, with 3 ex players (2 for Jays, 1 for Expos) winning as well. Unless I missed someone (easy to do).
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 07:28 AM EDT (#402471) #
Nightingale reporting that the Dodgers have moved on from Bauer and other reporters are theorizing and expecting the Dodgers to be solid buyers at the deadline along with the Dodgers so, yes, it looks like Starting pitching will be in higher demand this trade season.
Jonny German - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 08:16 AM EDT (#402473) #
Anthony Castro has been optioned to AAA, presumably to make room for Ryan Borucki.

One can hope that Reese McGuire is currently being shopped around for a grade C prospect so that Kirk can be added after the break. And that they’ll take the opportunity to shuffle the top of the batting order - I’d be inclined to go

1 Springer
2 Vladdy
3 Semien
4 Bichette
5 Hernandez
bpoz - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#402477) #
Vlad is a delight to watch. He smiles and glows so much. The team chemistry seems to be good.
Leaside Cowboy - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#402479) #
Just noticed, from 2015-2022 6 of the 7 ASG's will be in NL parks.

I gather it was Bud Selig's design to generally alternate the host league every year. It gets tricky when new ballparks are debuted, as those usually warrant a showcase, and likewise when a city has not hosted the event in decades. Subsequently, Rob Manfred has adopted a new philosophy.

Alternating the host league was also an attempt at fairness when home-field advantage in the World Series was at stake. Things got silly in San Diego in 2016, where the American League won a coin toss and was the home team.

uglyone - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#402480) #

Inside the AL dugout, Vlad Jr. was taking selfies, sitting for mock interviews with Teoscar Hernández, FaceTiming with Lourdes Gurriel Jr. and generally acting as if he owned the place. Which, uh, he sort of did. Column on his big night:

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 14, 2021
Thank God we have this guy or my Fandom would be hanging by the tiniest thread.
scottt - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#402483) #
That's why I'm not sold on a Gurriel trade. Vladdy would be FaceTiming him from the bench.
Hernandez says he's not looking for an extension, but I think that will change once the season is over.

92-93 - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#402484) #
Or maybe the team would perform closer to the sum of its parts if Gurriel was removed from the bench.
scottt - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#402485) #
The sooner they option him, the sooner they can call him back.

Borucki will require clearing a 40 spot.
This could be just Chatwood returning.



Ray is expected to pitch the first game against Texas and the last one against Boston.
Maybe Ryu second?
They might separate the right handed guys.

Leaside Cowboy - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#402488) #
The last time a Blue Jays pitcher started consecutive games was... AJ Burnett in 2008? (Unless an opener was used for back-to-back starts in 2019.)
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#402489) #
It is strange that two of the club's four most effective relievers per Statcast are in the minors, but really almost all the pitchers have thrown reasonably well by Statcast measures.  The whole relief corps has had a massive case of "when it rains, it pours", leading to 5 relievers who have played significant amounts with ERAs more than a run higher than expected ERA (Mayza, Castro, Barnes, Chatwood and Dolis).  What's the story with Payamps though?  If you are adding Borucki, why wouldn't you also bring up Payamps in place of Saucedo?  Payamps last pitched on July 10.  Maybe that move is coming today or tomorrow. 

Conversely, Blue Jay hitters have not distinguished themselves.  Guerrero Jr. has been great.  Teoscar, Bichette and Semien have been good.  Everybody else has been below average or worse by Statcast metrics.  Springer and Kirk have also been above average, but don't meet the 50 BIP mark that I suggest.  It's a mystery to me why you would want Gurriel and Grichuk both in the lineup most days when it is plain that neither are great fielders and that Kirk is a considerably better hitter than either. 

Kasi - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#402494) #
I think they don't love Payamps because of the fairly low K rate. He's been good for sure and I would like him in our 2 inning relief role but I think I'm wary of any reliever who doesn't strike out that much and unlike Cimber he doesn't have a different profile.
Spifficus - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#402497) #
I think they like him (tasty fastball spin) but worry he might pumpkin a bit if his batted ball profile is more luck than skill. That's fine, though - there's value in a decent Down By One guy.
PeterG - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#402501) #
Saucedo has pitched well. Why demote him?
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#402503) #
Saucedo has killed lefties so far. With 3 lefties in the rotation and now 2 in ithe pen, the need for another lefty is pretty low.  But, if you think that he's a better pitcher than Payamps, then I can see it.  I don't.
PeterG - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#402504) #
I think 2 lefties in the pen works. I also like Payamps and am not sure which one is better or more useful. I need to see more of them. Both are capable of multiple innings but Montoyo rarely uses them that way. The bullpen has performed poorly since May and seems to be turning it around now with the reinforcements but I also believe that poor pen management has heightened the difficulties.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 14 2021 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#402526) #
Probably should have posted this here:

For the record, I am just hopeful they can do a quick fix with him, get short term results and flip him as a top 25 prospect type piece to let someone else deal with and fix him.

If teams see him as a 50-75 (out of 100 prospect) then I’d include him in the right deal, part of me not wanting to sell that low. If they view him in trades below that then no brainer you keep trying to fix him.

How many of Pearson’s stats are based on 3, 4 and 5 inning starts?

He doesn’t have “tools” to me. 2 years ago, throwing 100 miles per hour I would have agreed but in 2021 there are probably more than 100 pitchers throwing 95, 96 or higher (minors included) which is where Pearson has dropped back to. His velocity has dipped, his control has worsened and it shows in his results. Plus he can’t stay healthy. I think his chances for big success are the same as Josh Phelps. Huge upside and lots of holes and inconsistencies. Only consistency with him is his injuries.

Sad to say but it’s possible that the best of Pearson may have occurred in the minors.
scottt - Thursday, July 15 2021 @ 01:59 AM EDT (#402537) #
Saucedo had a tiny WHIP in AAA. I doubt he faced only lefties there.
Obviously, if you got 2 left bats coming up he's a good fit, but I don't mind using him for an inning against the bottom of the lineup, which is what Payamps would be used for.

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