Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
We are grateful for the winning streak. We know who we must thank.


And so... we offer fresh cigars, universally recognized as being of the finest quality, in this world or the next.

We offer an exquisite rum, patiently aged until it is worthy to pass the lips of a supernatural being.

We offer all praise and thanks to Jobu.

For it is Jobu who makes the curveballs hang.

For it is Jobu who makes the changeups miss.

We just deal with the fastballs.

The Jays and Orioles have met 12 times so far, with seven more to go. They'll play four times this weekend, with a double-header on Saturday to make up for the 8 July rainout. The story so far:

June 18: Toronto 1 Baltimore 7 - The Orioles made Robbie Ray throw 106 pitches in less than five innings, while Thomas Eshelman held the Jays to a single run on a Gurriel homer. The Orioles took a 2-1 lead into the eighth and piled on five additional runs against Murphy and Beasley.
June 19: Toronto 10 Baltimore 7 - What was surely the Jays most memorable victory until September came around. Alek Manoah got roughed up for back-to-back homers to fall behind 5-2; he hit the next batter and was ejected. The Jays were down 7-4 heading into the ninth, when they mounted a stunning six run rally. With two outs, Bo Bichette fouled off five two-strike pitches before blooping a game-tying single just out of Santander's reach in right field. Guerrero and Grichuk followed with RBI doubles and Romano closed it out.
June 20:- Toronto 7 Baltimore 4 - The Jays got to Matt Harvey for four runs in the fifth inning, which was more than enough for Hyun-Jin Ryu. Reese McGuire knocked out four hits, three of them doubles.

June 24:- Baltimore 0 Toronto 9 -  Orioles starter Dean Kremer walked four of the first six Jays to come to the plate, gave up a grand slam to Lourdes Gurriel, and walked yet another before being removed from the game. He was immediately sent back to AAA, where he remains, leaving naught behind but his 0-7, 7.25 record in the majors. Anthony Kay was the lucky beneficiary of this largesse, and stuck around long enough to collect his only W of 2021. (After this, Kay would pitch well in three relief outings - 1 ER in 6.1 IP - but get bombed by the Red Sox on a day the Bostons were scoring 13 runs and find himself banished to AAA as well.)
June 25:- Baltimore 6 Toronto 5 - Alek Manoah pitched six strong innings and homers from Springer and Guerrero staked the Jays to a 5-1 lead. But Tyler Chatwood and Tayler Saucedo couldn't hold it - it's hard to decide which of the two was worse that day - and Baltimore got the win in extras when Trent Thornton issued three walks in his inning of work, which was sufficient to cash the Zombie Runner.
June 26:- Baltimore 4 Toronto 12 - The Jays made things easy for Hyun-Jin Ryu, roaring out to a 12-0 lead after six. The Jays got a three-run homer from Grichuk, a two-run homer from Guerrero, and a solo shot from Hernandez.
June 27: Baltimore 2 Toronto 5 - Two-run doubles from Guerrero and Biggio provided all the offense Ross Stripling and four relievers would require.

July 6: Toronto 5 Baltimore 7 - Steven Matz continued to scuffle in his second start since returning from the COVID list - a Mullins homer knocked him out in the fifth, trailing 4-1; Trent Thornton instantly gave up three more runs and late homers from Guerrero, Grichuk, and Gurriel (the Killer Gees) just made the score close.
July 7: Toronto 10 Baltimore 2 - The Jays abused Matt Harvey yet again - Bichette, Guerrero, Hernandez each had three hits, Biggio had a pair of doubles, and Ryu had another nice easy night at work.

August 30: Baltimore 3 Toronto 7 - Vladimir Guerrero hit a pair of homers and Robbie Ray fanned 10. Trent Thornton's poor work forced Romano into action to nail it down in the ninth and punched Thornton's own ticket back to AAA.
August 31: Baltimore 4 Toronto 2 - Hyun-Jin Ryu was sailing along with a 1-0 lead, working on a no-hitter when all of a sudden, with two out in the sixth, he allowed a double by Mountcastle, an RBI single by Hays, issued a walk to Santander, and gave up a two-run double by Urias. A Guerrero homer cut the lead to 3-2, but the Jays bats couldn't solve the likes of Keegan Akin, Tyler Wells, and Cole Sluser. Perhaps they needed some help.
September 1: Baltimore 4 Toronto 5 - Steven Matz turned a 4-2 lead over to the bullpen, but the Orioles scored once against Saucedo and once against Soria to tie it up. But Bichette singled to lead off the bottom of the eighth; he took second when Hernandez was hit by a pitch, third when Kirk flied out to deep centre, and scored the winning run on Grichuk's sac fly.

Once more, the Jays will miss Baltimore's best pitcher, LH John Means, who took the loss last night against Kansas City. They'll also miss personal whipping boy Matt Harvey (0-2, 8.66 against Toronto this season), who just went on the 10 day IL. Ellis and Akin are scheduled to start the first two games; Lowther and Wells followed them the last time through the rotation so we'll go with those guys until we hear different. Likewise, Stripling is tentatively pencilled in for one of the two Saturday games. This is all very much... in flux!

Very Tentative Matchups!

Friday10 September  7:05 PM - Ray (11-5, 2.60) vs Ellis (0-0, 2.84)
Saturday 11 September 4:35 PM - Ryu (13-8, 3.77) vs Kremer (0-7, 7.25)
Saturday 11 September 7:35 PM - Hatch (0-0, 7.36) vs Akin (2-8, 7.00)
Sunday 12 September 1:05 PM - Matz (11-7, 3.70) vs Lowther (0-1, 6.91)

Happy birthday, Eephus!






Toronto at Baltimore, September 10-12 | 255 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#406596) #
The Killer Gees

Aren't they the famous one hit wonders with their mashup Mr. Brightfever?

Happy birthday, eephus.
John Northey - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#406619) #
Hmm... at some point a nickname for Bo & Vlad will have to be made. Trying to think of a 2nd generation joke but can't think of one. The BG's? For Bichette/Guerrero?
uglyone - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#406622) #
Trap series.

But I don't think we'll fall into it.
Leaside Cowboy - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#406623) #
Vladdy is Vladdy. A singular name like Socrates.

The other day, I believe that I saw Dante Bichette behind the batting practice cage when Bo was hitting.
Leaside Cowboy - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#406625) #
Guerrero, Grichuk, and Gurriel (the Killer Gees)

The 2005 Arizona Diamondbacks featured the "G-Force" with Luis Gonzalez, Troy Glaus, & Shawn Green.

uglyone - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#406633) #
Springer playing tonight.

Stripling activated. Smith to AAA.


Neither Biggio nor Espinal is close to a return.
scottt - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#406634) #
The trap here are those  7 innings games.
Not a lot of time to come back from one bad inning.

Other than that, we got Ryu on regular rest.
Another option I see for Sunday is Mike Baumann.

I'm sure they'll recall someone for the second header too, probably a pitcher.
Matt Harvey was replaced on the roster by UT Richie Martin.
Akin, Lowther and Wells are lefties, but they only have 2 in the pen.

Springer back at DH?
Lamb at 3B.
Dyson gets a start in center. Don't get upset if he bunts.

scottt - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#406635) #
Interesting. Maybe Hatch will pop up as the extra man.
92-93 - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#406636) #
Why would they make that move today and not tomorrow? They are that concerned about their bullpen tonight with Ray on the mound? The back end guys Saucedo and Merryweather are fresh anyway.
John Northey - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#406637) #
It does seem odd - why not keep Smith around for 1 more game then do the changes tomorrow? I can't imagine they'd use Stripling tonight under any circumstances short of a 15+ inning game which is extremely unlikely.
GabrielSyme - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#406638) #
Extremely favourable matchups for us. And with the Yankees playing the Mets and the Red Sox matching up against the White Sox, it would be a bit of a disappointment if we don't move into a wild card position by the end of the weekend.

Robbie Ray has a decent chance at the Cy Young if he gets the win tonight: he's ahead of Cole in ERA and quality starts, and should move ahead in strikeouts tonight. Right now Cole's advantage in record (14-7 vs 11-5) is the biggest thing keeping him a favourite, and narrowing the win gap would be a significant help.
Polite Nate - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#406639) #
A simple reason might simply be to save Kevin Smith back-to-back flights.
Gerry - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#406640) #
Thomas Hatch is likely to start one of tomorrows doubleheader games. Ryu is being pushed back, not sure how far.
Thomas - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#406641) #
Baltimore is doing substantial damage to Ray's Cy Young hopes and Toronto's wild card hopes. How appropriate.
krose - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#406642) #
Yup! This team is not as good as it looked in the Yanke series nor is itís bad as it looks tonight.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#406643) #
That heckling from Hyde was pretty outrageous.

Letís hope it fires the boys up
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#406644) #
The Jays have got this.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#406646) #
Montgomery for the Yankees just walked in a run. 2-2 Mets-Yankees. Bases loaded, none out, Montgomery with a high pitch count.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#406647) #
Mets now beating Yankees 6-2 after 3 IP.
uglyone - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#406648) #
Nice pull there, Montoya.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#406649) #
Mets beating NYY 8-2

White Sox beating Boston 3-0 (Abreu just hit a three-run HR)
uglyone - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#406650) #
Not so nice bunt there, Montoya.
uglyone - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#406651) #
Legit body check. Dirty.

99BlueJaysWay - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#406652) #
That looked pretty darn deliberate to me. He was looking that way for several steps
Magpie - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#406653) #
Not so nice bunt there, Montoya.

That seemed to surprise Gurriel, which makes one think Lamb did it on his own. And isn't Montoya a NASCAR driver?
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#406654) #
Not good if Gurriel is hurt. BS play by the Oís pitcher.
Polite Nate - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#406655) #
This year I was starting to soften, but this game has snapped me back into my senses and Baltimore remains my most loathed team in baseball.
Chuck - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#406656) #
Can you imagine having to watch these Orioles all year long? Feels like a Geneva Convention violation.
christaylor - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#406657) #
From the jerk sauce thrown at Ray to the body check... a frustrated team trying to be jerks? There is no equivalent of Donaldson or Bautista on this team, but things could still en up messy by the end.
BlueJayWay - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#406658) #
That was a deliberate crosscheck on Gurriel. Abad should be suspended for that.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#406659) #
The Baltimore Wankers.
scottt - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#406660) #
Santander is like Smith. Can't hit high fastballs, but don't throw him a low one.
The_Game - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#406661) #
Yeah, maybe using the guy who hadn't pitched in 5 months in the 7th inning of a tie game wasn't such a great idea.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#406662) #
But Buck said it was a low leverage situation. Iím confused.
Polite Nate - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#406663) #
I'm not mad about it but it's interestingly telling how differently they are treating his return compared to Pearson.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#406664) #
The Jays have a bit of a problem at third base. As in, they donít have anyone good to play there, and Espinal is not close to returning.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#406665) #
Rough night defensively for Kirk. I would say weíve seen the downside of his defensive
Magpie - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#406666) #
The Jays have a bit of a problem at third base.

Kind of pining for Breyvic Valera these days, which is extremely disturbing.

I thought Buck said they'd like a low leverage situation for Merryweather and Tabler basically said there's no such thing in September.
Magpie - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#406667) #
[Santander] Can't hit high fastballs, but don't throw him a low one.

Kirk was set up for a fastball at the bottom of the zone, and that's what Merryweather threw. Maybe they forgot the scouting report.
greenfrog - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#406668) #
Close game in Chicago (4-3 White Sox, bottom 7, one out, one on). It would really help the Jays if the Red Sox would lose. There arenít that many games left. Each one is important.
John Northey - Friday, September 10 2021 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#406669) #
Not often I agree with Buck and Pat - but yeah, this is September in a playoff race, low leverage situations are few and far between. Sadly Merryweather made it one via the 3 run HR which never should've happened as if he fields that bunt he doesn't face the last 2 batters. Sigh. Of course, the Jays only scored those 3 runs so a win wasn't likely unless Ray was really on and he wasn't.
grjas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#406670) #
While Boston and NY lost, Seattle and Oakland didnít. This is a 5 horse race, not a 3 horse one.
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:30 AM EDT (#406671) #
which never should've happened

The woulda shoulda coulda game is a slippery one. The Jays' 2-run inning was also predicated on stuff that should not have happened. Jones should have not tried to get the 2nd out of the inning at third base, not with a 3-run lead. And if he did, he should have made a good throw. The Orioles should not have failed to score a run in the 2nd inning with a man on third and nobody out.

Deconstruct a game and the knife cuts both ways.

greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#406672) #
The Jays have some advantages:

-Tied for the WC in the loss column

-Most games still to play (they control their fate)

-Springer, Stripling, Pearson, Merryweather back from the IL

-Wander Franco has been placed on the IL and may be unavailable for the Jaysí games against TB. The Red Sox have had a bunch of players on the COVID IL. And the Yankees have temporarily lost Cole and Taillon

Itís going to be a close race, though.
92-93 - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#406674) #
When youíve won 11 of your last 12 games youíre bound to play a game in which you need to rely on the relievers lower down on the totem pole. The problem wasnít going to Merryweather last night, itís consistently warming up your best relievers in 4+ run leads. Hopefully the 2 games, 14 inning structure of today helps the bullpen reset instead of adding more strain. Ryu will play a big role in that, so fingers crossed the issues he experienced last start from the sliders have healed and he goes 6 today.

Agreed on Valera, Magpie. Itís amazing because a few weeks ago we didnít want to see him in the lineup, but heís shown more utility when given the opportunity lately. Taking a chance on Lambís pop is a good idea for a bad team or one that has secured a playoff spot, but itís hard to work a new guy into the lineup and show the proper patience when you desperately need results now. Thankfully there hasnít been too much important action at the hot corner since Espinal got hurt, it feels like itís been just 2-3 fairly routine plays a game.
scottt - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#406676) #
Lamb is having good ABs. He just hasn't lucked out into anything yet.
They wanted to throw him in there against a lefty to get him going.
Today, everybody should get into the action.

Springer has not look anywhere near 100% to me.
Ryu is on regular rest and came out with a stiff arm last time.
I would be very careful with him here.

greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#406677) #
"Lamb is having good ABs"

In 16 PA, he's hitting .000/.250/.000 with a 31.3 K%. He also has below-average defense during that span. He's posted -0.2 WAR in total.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#406679) #
Agreed that Lamb kinda "looks" like a hitter, but also it's clear he's not hitting, and hasn't hit for a good 5yrs now.

That being said, the exact same thing was true of Valera and then he started hitting a bit.

Also, conveniently, the combined projections say that both Lamb and Valera are both likely to hit for a below average but not awful identical 93wrc+ going forward.

It also helps that Lamb looks extremely comfortable at the hot corner.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#406680) #
Hey, when your regular gets injured and his replacement gets injured.... it's not always pretty.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#406681) #
It generally wasn't pretty when the regular was playing. His replacement was pretty good, though.
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#406682) #
and hasn't hit for a good 5yrs now

He's definitely the ghost of hitting past. Being a left-hand hitting third baseman has bought him chances, but those would appear to be soon done. The game is a cruel mistress.

ayjackson - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#406683) #
Deconstruct a game and the knife cuts both ways.

The knife should cut against the Orioles more often than not. That's why they are where they are.
ayjackson - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#406684) #
Having trouble reconciling El Dorado 21 with a loss to the O's.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#406685) #
Why, I'd be ready to call Richard Urena about now. (Hey, he's still younger than Biggio! Who's still younger than Espinal!)
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#406686) #
The knife should cut against the Orioles more often than not. That's why they are where they are.

My point was that any deconstruction focuses on micro aspects of a given game. What if this play had been made? What if that pitch hadn't been thrown? What if that throw had been cut off? What if the relief pitcher were not such a mindless oak to have bodychecked a base runner? Last night's game had plenty of what ifs to go around even if one team was markedly better than the other.

Baltimore is where they are more because of macro failures that don't invite deconstruction. They can't hit (14th). And they can't pitch (15th). And they can't field (13th in defensive efficiency). The what ifs don't quite work at that level.

Spifficus - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#406687) #
I'm thinking Jobu might not be able to handle the good stuff.
Thomas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#406688) #
If I recall correctly, the Jays playoff percentages dropped about 5% at Fangraphs due to yesterday's loss. Oh well, today's another day (that counts double!).

With respect to 3B, I'm willing to give Biggio a mulligan on this year, because he's pretty clearly never been healthy. However, that's also why I put little stock (or hope) in the suggestion he may be back in late September. For this year's playoff push, it looks like Espinal or bust.
John Northey - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#406689) #
3B has been a nightmare but the Jays at 3B are ranked #12 out of 15 in the AL despite it by sOPS+ (OPS+ vs others at that position - 81 for the Jays).
  • Biggio to be the regular, 84 sOPS+ injured
  • Panik #1 sub, 49 sOPS+, traded for Adam Cimber, and Corey Dickerson and cash (also sent Andrew McInvale to Miami who has a near 6 ERA for them in AA in relief) - Panik has a 34 OPS+ since the trade so yeah, that was a very, very good trade.
  • Espinal #2 sub, 102 sOPS+ now on IL
  • Kevin Smith, prospect called up, 11 sOPS+
  • Breyvic Valera, almost a panic get off waivers - 104 sOPS+
  • Jake Lamb, who knows why - off waivers, not qualified for playoffs, -53 sOPS+ so far.
  • Vlad got in 1 game and was 0 for 1 while at 3B.
So the #1/2/3 guys are injured or dumped. Current platoon both were gained off waivers for nothing. Top prospect available couldn't hit. I'd look at anyone in the minors who might be able to cover 3B at this point - surprised Otto Lopez hasn't played a single game at 3B in the minors this year as he might be a possibility but hasn't been there since 2018.
John Northey - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#406690) #
Playoff odds at Fangraphs are interesting...
Jays odds: 45.7%, 3rd best of wild card contenders. Up 0.2% from yesterday, but down from 51.8% the day before.
Using Season to Date stats: Jays odds jump to 57.2%, 2nd best of contenders (Yankees drop to 36.1%)
Using coin flip: 35.8%

Interesting.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#406691) #
Biggio is in the Buffalo lineup tonight at DH (first game since August 20) and Smith is at 3b.
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#406692) #
Ah. Hereís the 2021 team I recognize
Thomas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#406693) #
Is there a reason they tabbed Hatch for the start in Game 2, as opposed to using Stripling and then moving him into the swingman role after he started today?
SK in NJ - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#406694) #
I think it goes without saying that losing more than once to the Orioles in a 3 or 4 game series is not good. It's closer to really, really bad. Hopefully the Jays catch up, but it's only a 7 inning game and Ryu is getting hit around.

Speaking of Ryu, he has a 4.45 ERA since June. Up to 4.82 over that span with his 2 innings factored in today, and he's still pitching so it might get worse. Something to keep an eye on.
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#406695) #
Ryu should already be out of this game. Theyíre all over everything
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#406696) #
Stripling's only faced six batters in the last month. He's a relief pitcher until next season. And now would be a good time.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#406697) #
Is it possible the Oís are cheating in this series? Ray thought it was ďcuriousĒ that they werenít swinging at his slider.
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#406698) #
Great call Charlie
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#406699) #
Unbelievable how bad our two Ace SPs have been this series.
ISLAND BOY - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#406700) #
Ryu seems to alternate good games with stinkers. "Finally!" I thought when Montoyo came out to the mound, couldn't believe it when he left him in for two more runs.
scottt - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#406701) #
Springer should probably be on the bench and Ryu should have been pulled early, but these guys are paid a lot of money so they have "earned" the right to play.

At least Ryu will be on extra rest next time.

SK in NJ - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#406702) #
Leaving Ryu in during a 7 inning game when he was clearly struggling was just an absurd decision. Stripling may or may not have stranded the inherited runners, but Ryu was shot. No idea why Montoyo is worried about being player friendly when the season is on the line.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#406703) #
Eh I keep him in too. Especially with a bullpen game coming up next.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#406704) #
Even the outs are hard. Do these guys have the signs?
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#406705) #
Yes.

Yes they do.
dalimon5 - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#406706) #
Whatever is happening, itís on the manager to end it. Stop the signs. Change the pitchers. So something. Donít throw out your worst pitchers hoping you can save your best for game 2 when itís only a 2 run deficit.

This is two games in a row when Charlie brings in pitchers who havenít pitched in a long time to keep the score close.

This is a season ending game, possibly. 10 runs against and counting. I canít believe in 2021 the Rays former assistant manager leaves Ryu in for 7 runs, then goes to Stripling fresh of the IL, then warms up Pearson.

The Jays go up against the Rays next and will be lucky if they come away with 1 win.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#406707) #
itís on the manager to end it.

There is an old school response for those times when you think the opposition has the catcher's signs. Call for the breaking ball low and away but throw the fastball up and in. Might be a little too old school.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#406708) #
I meant, let's not forget that our bullpen is still shitty.

If they're all on deck and in form we might have an average bullpen by the time the playoffs roll around, but that's best case.

We do have a nice rotation tho.
grjas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#406709) #
Agreed. After yesterdayís fracas, if it is sign stealing thatís on the Jays for not reacting. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#406710) #
Have yourself a day, Mr.Lamb, courtesy of battersbox.ca
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#406711) #
Seeing as how itís Baltimore, I for one endorse Magpieís old school method of addressing suspected sign stealing
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#406712) #
Texas is doing us a huge favour. Wow
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#406713) #
Texas had a huge comeback and beat the Aís 8-6.

Weíll see how the Yankees and Red Sox do tonight.

Also, the Jays game is somehow not over yet. Top 6, one on, none out.
krose - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#406714) #
Pearson hard to hit even if one knows whatís coming.
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#406715) #
Was pinch-hitting Mullins with first base open just a brain fart?
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#406716) #
Big hit by LGJ. Atrocious base running by him.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#406717) #
This game should be tied right now.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#406718) #
Hell yeah
Mike Green - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#406719) #
By George I think he's got it.
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#406720) #
No one is asking if the Jays are cheating.
grjas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#406721) #
Ha. I thought they should have hit Kirk for Springer. Wrong!!
dalimon5 - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#406723) #
The team Atkins has put together is too strong for Montoyo to mess it up.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#406724) #
Nice defense this inning.
dalimon5 - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#406725) #
Iíve always liked Dyson as an asset off the bench, like him even more now that heís on the Jays.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#406726) #
Brilliant. BlueGrit is kind of a cheesy slogan, but it applies here.
grjas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#406727) #
Wasnít long ago it looked like Oakland would leapfrog them. Two stunning turnarounds
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#406728) #
Just a huge huge win. 1 loss is OK but 2 would have been deadly.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#406729) #
That's the 2021 Blue Jays that I recognize!

It's also good that they didn't need to use Cimber, Richards, Mayza, and Soria with what could be a bullpen game to follow.
SK in NJ - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#406730) #
Bad base running by Gurriel, and puzzling decision not to pinch hit Kirk for Jansen, but a win is a win. Huge comeback. Still need to get Game 2, but losing Game 1 would have been brutal.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#406731) #
"Ha. I thought they should have hit Kirk for Springer. Wrong!!"

For Lamb the previous inning tho...
scottt - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#406732) #
Great team win.

Ryu didn't have it but they let him battle and it would not have been a close game if Stripling had been sharper.

Nigel - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#406733) #
Great win but donít confuse good outcomes with good decision making.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#406734) #
One thing I love about this afternoonís game is the way LGJ responded to the bodycheck yesterday, i.e., with a huge offensive contribution. The very best revenge.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#406735) #
"Great win but donít confuse good outcomes with good decision making."

Eh just let your team play and you should beat lesser trash
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#406736) #
Between games roster move - Saucedo (who definitely wasn't available today) has been optioned, Anthony Castro called up.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#406737) #
Yankees beating the crap out of Tajuan Walker, who's 0-6, 7.36 in his last 9 starts and has now given up 17 HRs in his last 46 innings.
Leaside Cowboy - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#406738) #
El Dorado comes from Georgetown.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#406740) #
The good guys (Mets and White Sox) are battling back.
Dr. Zarco - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#406741) #
Getting perfect gamed through 5 against a guy with an ERA above 7 is odd. Being down with only 2 ABs left is concerning. Get it going, bats.
Dr. Zarco - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#406742) #
Guess the perfect game was over after the first batter. But 15 in a row since then.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#406743) #
This is pretty awful. But at least (a) the Jays have one more inning to try to score and (b) the Aís lost and the Yankees and Red Sox are losing (barely).
SK in NJ - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#406744) #
Asking Valera to bunt a runner to 2nd in the 6th inning of a 7 inning game, down by 1 on the road, essentially giving the O's a free out when the offense hasn't gotten a hit all game, is just infuriating. To make matters worse, Akin threw 3 straight balls way out of the strike zone, but Valera bunted one foul to make the count 2-1, and then bunted on the 4th pitch. I know he's not an offensive player, but bunting is absolutely not the right call in that situation.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#406745) #
Boom baby
Chuck - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#406746) #
I wonder Hyde knows that Akin is spent?
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#406747) #
Alejandro

Alejandro
BlueJayWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#406748) #
Just the ol' rope a dope
SK in NJ - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#406749) #
Bo and Kirk homers in the 7th. That'll work.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#406750) #
You canít keep a good team down.
Dr. Zarco - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#406751) #
Geez baseball is a weird game. No-hit through 6, then 6 straight hits.

Unrelatedly, the MASN announcing crew is new this year and I like them. I really didnít care for the old group, that has included Jim hunter and Jim Palmer. These guys are much better.
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#406752) #
Pretty good team we have here.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#406753) #
They don't have to wait until their last at bat every game, do they? Some of us are old.
grjas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#406754) #
I almost feel sorry for the Orioles.

Ok. Not really.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#406755) #
Out of town:

Oakland lost
Seattle is losing
Yankees are losing
Boston is tied 8-8 with Chicago
Thomas - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#406756) #
I thought the MASN crew has been okay (I must admit I don't remember the old one very well), but there was an odd moment in the first game when they spent a solid amount time prior to a commercial break, and then again after, criticizing McKenna for throwing home on Lamb's single in the fifth and saying it was a mistake that he didn't throw to third without ever realizing no one was covering third for the Orioles on the play.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#406757) #
So things going okay
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#406758) #
Jobu works in mysterious ways.
Spifficus - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#406759) #
My tablet's battery died after 8 runs were in, seemingly saying "Ok, it's been a full day of baseball, and they're up by 7. We're done here."

I turned on gameday in time to see that Hernandez didn't quite feel that things were quite done.
AWeb - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#406760) #
It was 1-0 in the 6th, I check the score expecting either extras or a game over loss, and it says 11-1? And it's not some weird typo/glitch related to the 11 runs scored earlier in the day? WTF? Yay! Awesome!
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#406761) #
Aaron Judge with a two run homer to tie that game. White Sox going to the bottom of the ninth in the other tied game.
bpoz - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#406762) #
Big lead, you don't need to bring in your best relievers.
greenfrog - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#406763) #
White Sox have the winning run on second base with one out.
Dr. Zarco - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#406764) #
Youíre sharper than I am, Thomas. I, too, thought Gurriel was a dead duck at third and it was a terrible decision to go to third by Gurriel and a terrible one by McKenna to throw home. I didnít notice there was no one covering, either.
Magpie - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#406765) #
I didnít notice there was no one covering, either.

Martinez and Tabler didn't notice either, not until they saw the replay. Are they at the ballpark?
uglyone - Saturday, September 11 2021 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#406766) #
https://twitter.com/DrewGROF/status/1436885050298142726
StephenT - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#406768) #
Hazel Mae was the only Jays announcer at the Baltimore park.
Michael - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 06:19 AM EDT (#406769) #
It's too bad the Jays hitting is never clutch and can never score runs late in the game.... wasn't that the claim a few weeks back?

The Jays now tied for 2WC with Yankees and 2 wins and 0 loses behind Boston for 1WC. I think there chances are pretty good.
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 07:12 AM EDT (#406770) #
They Yankees have the worse schedule.
Boston's is a bit easier than the Toronto's but they are a hard bunch to predict.

The good news is that they may be able to grab the first wild card and host the game.
The bad news is that the wild card winner will go against the division winner with the best record which will be the Rays.

That was a great come back. Best inning in franchise history.
Would be nice if they scored early today.

99BlueJaysWay - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 08:02 AM EDT (#406771) #
Agreed scottt. Eleven first inning runs would sure save us all a lot is unnecessary stress
hypobole - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 08:26 AM EDT (#406772) #
It's too bad the Jays hitting is never clutch and can never score runs late in the game.... wasn't that the claim a few weeks back.

Then the *non-clutch* Jays do this:

"They are the first team in Major League Baseball history to hit a go-ahead home run while trailing in the final scheduled inning of both games of a doubleheader, according to ESPN Stats & Info."

Leaside Cowboy - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 08:26 AM EDT (#406773) #
Jobu provides comeuppance for Dr. Heckle / Mr. Hyde.
ayjackson - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#406774) #
Jobu warming to the Demeraran offering.
Petey Baseball - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#406775) #
We've already summoned Jobu, wonder if Grimlock will make an appearance in this wildly exciting series.
AWeb - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#406776) #
MLB.com is loving the Brewers 2nd no hitter last night, but a little note in one article was unnoticed by me until this morning. Cleveland has been no-hit three times this year. That's a record. Zach Plesac has been the opposing pitcher all three times (the 2nd time threw 8 shutout innings himself, was OK last night too). That's...kind of amazing? With low averages and high strikeouts, we're in the no-hitter era, but 3 no hitters pitched against the same opposing starting pitcher might be a forever record.

Also, rewatched the highlights this morning, such fun. Didn't realize Guerrero broke up a no hitter in the 2nd game to kickstart a...checks notes in still disbelief...11 run, 4 hr final inning.  Random observation from just seeing the highlights: The Orioles hit a lot of pitches at the edge of the zone very hard to score their 10 runs. Not sure they were "bad pitches" from Ryu and Stripling, except that neither was apparently fooling opposing hitters whatsoever. Oh, and it was very obvious that Pat and Buck were announcing from watching a screen somewhere...sort of a 1/2 second delay on reactions as they figured it out. Not usually one of their issues.
Leaside Cowboy - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#406777) #
Eastern Time

1:05 - Toronto (Steven Matz) vs. Baltimore (Zac Lowther)
2:10 - Boston (Nick Pivetta) vs. Chicago White Sox (Lance Lynn)
2:15 - Cincinnati (Sonny Gray) vs. St. Louis (J.A. Happ)
4:07 - Texas (Taylor Hearn) vs. Oakland (James Kaprielian)
4:10 - Arizona (Tyler Gilbert) vs. Seattle (Yusei Kikuchi)
4:10 - San Diego (Blake Snell) vs. LA Dodgers (Max Scherzer)
8:08 - NY Yankees (TBD) vs. NY Mets (Carlos Carrasco)

92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#406778) #
The bunt in game 2 was at least defensible, unlike some earlier ones this season. Montoyo was looking to get the runner into scoring position with Springer and Guerrero on deck. It would also ensure that the Orioles had to get through Teoscar to win the game by taking the double play off the table, a real risk with Kirk Springer on deck. When you have the better bullpen, playing for the tie in the 8th with your #9 hitter isn't the worst decision.

That being said, my personal preference would be to see Dyson PR and attempt a steal. There are times where an attempted steal is warranted (perhaps not last night) and the Jays don't budge. They are pretty effective at swiping bags, but Bichette and Semien's numbers suggest a little bit more risk can be taken at times. Bo probably takes pride in that % and doesn't want to go unless it's a sure thing. The only time he was caught this year, just barely, was trying for 3rd on a 2 strike pitch to Vlad.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#406779) #
Jobu provides comeuppance for Dr. Heckle / Mr. Hyde.

Picture being in the shoes of said Dr. Heckle. He has won 34% of his games in his three years as a manager. He is very likely to be out of job in a few weeks and not land on anyone's A-list. He is a tactician of dubious merit, though this is largely moot given that he has been armed mainly with AAA "talent".

That he hasn't been jawing more at opposition players is a surprise, let alone being seen openly drinking from a paper bag in the dugout.

uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#406780) #
Pythag standings

HOU 88-53 +2.5
TBR 88-54 +0.5
TOR 86-56 ---
CHW 84-58 -2.0
OAK 78-64 -8.0
BOS 77-67 -10.0
NYY 74-68 -12.0
CLE 68-72 -17.0
DET 66-77 -20.5
SEA 65-77 -21.0


Never forget, the only race we should actually be in right now is a very tight race for 1st.
bpoz - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#406781) #
It has been a weird year (covid). Does anyone want to guess how the Jays profit/revenue is doing?
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#406782) #
20 games to go. The Rays have placed Franco and Archer on the 10-day IL, so those players will miss the two TB-Toronto series.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#406783) #
I'd love to see the Jays 113wrc+ 735r offense catch the Astros 117wrc+ 143r for 1st in wrc+ and 2nd in runs in mlb. Won't catch the rays' 768r though.

Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#406784) #
my personal preference would be to see Dyson PR and attempt a steal.

I don't think they've ever pinch run for Grichuk. The bunt's a safer play - you're not nearly as likely to lose the base runner - and you've still got Dyson available to run for Kirk or Gurriel next inning. Dyson's still pretty fast for 37, but he's not the nearly automatic successful steal he used to be.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#406785) #
Incidentally, Thomas Hatch was in the cold tub looking after his tender hamstring when the Jays started hitting in the seventh inning. Being nobody's fool, he naturally chose to stay in the cold tub until they stopped hitting. He may be going on the IL later today with hypothermia.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#406786) #
Are people hurt? No Springer or Kirk against a LHP, but Lamb starts at 1B?
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#406787) #
Team wRC+, Jays history

1. 2015 117
2. 2021 113
3. 1993 109


2021 vs 2015 vs 1993


Guerrero 170 --- Donaldson 154 ----- Olerud 179
Springer 144 --- Encarnacion 150 --- Molitor 144
Semien 138 ----- Bautista 148 ------ Alomar 142
Teoscar 133 ---- Colabello 143 ----- White 109
Kirk 133 ----------- Travis 136 -------- Carter 108
Bichette 118 ----- Martin 115 -------- Fernandez 100
Gurriel 108 ------ Tulowitzki 101 ---- Henderson 92
Espinal 103 ------ Revere 98 --------- Sprague 85
Dickerson 96 ----- Pillar 94 --------- Borders 72

Lamb 96 -------- Smoak 108 --------- Coles 85
Grichuk 92 ----- Carrera 90 -------- Ward 59
Biggio 82 ------ Goins 85 ---------- Griffin 25
Jansen 92 ------ Navarro 84 -------- Knorr 98

Dyson 50 ------- Pompey 82 --------- Jackson 56
Valera 68 ------ Pennington 57 ----- Schofield 49
McGuire 86 ----- Thole 33 ---------- ???
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#406788) #
Last 2yrs, currently age 22 or younger:

Min 50pa

1. Soto 756pa, 169wrc+, 6.4war650
2. Tatis 721pa, 158wrc+, 7.5war650
3. Guerrero 855pa, 153wrc+, 5.0war650
4. Kirk 184pa, 137wrc+, 4.2war650
5. Franco 271pa, 126wrc+, 5.3war650
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#406789) #
"Are people hurt? No Springer or Kirk against a LHP, but Lamb starts at 1B?"

I imagine Springer and Kirk could pinch-hit later in the game if need be. With luck, that won't be necessary.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#406790) #
It's been 10 days since their last day off so it's good to give Vladdy a bit of a blow after 14 innings yesterday. Ideally Kirk would catch for the 3rd day in a row, but that's clearly something the Jays want to avoid. At least the bench is loaded with PH options today between Springer, Kirk, and Dickerson.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#406791) #
Also: today is a day game coming off a doubleheader (with Kirk catching the second game), and the Jays start a big series with TB tomorrow. Montoyo is no doubt trying to rest a couple of his key players -- without compromising his ability to grab another win from the O's.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#406792) #
Trent Thornton is in Baltimore and active for today's game. Good work rotating through back-end relievers instead of carrying an extra one.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#406794) #
Letís hope Lynn (White Sox) and Carrasco (Mets) have good games today. The Jays could be tied for WC1 when todayís games are over.

I think Manoah, Berrios and Ray are good SP choices for the Rays series starting tomorrow.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#406795) #
Is anyone else having an issue with Sportsnet or it just me?
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#406796) #
Just my regular Buck and Pat issues. But you probably meant something else.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#406797) #
I did. Signed out, signed back in. Just as Gurriel was coming to the plate.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#406798) #
The Jays have scored 16 runs over their past 3 outs.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#406799) #
The Jays have scored 16 runs in their last two innings.
John Northey - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#406800) #
Boy when these guys are on they are a lot of fun. Poor Teoscar, getting the RBI the hard way.
SK in NJ - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#406801) #
Scoring a bunch of runs in the 1st inning is more fun than waiting until the very end of the game. Hopefully it's a stress free blowout today.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#406802) #
Gurriel Jr. has really turned his season around. Heís hitting .282/.323/.468 with 18 HR. His hot bat is adding some needed length to the lineup.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#406803) #
Excellent way to answer back here in the 3rd inning. It would really help for the upcoming series vs. TB if they can get through today without using anyone beyond Matz-Thornton-Merryweather. Thornton has thrown 15 pitches since Sept 5 and might be good for two today.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#406804) #
Gameday says the Jays now have a 99.7% chance of winning this game.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#406805) #
We like our team, Barry.
Glevin - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#406806) #
Gurriel has lengthened the lineup for sure bt Kirk and Jansen hitting has done so as well. Lamb and Dickerson also pretty good options against righties. This team can hit.
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#406807) #
Finally a blowout, easier on the nerves.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#406808) #
I think the hitting slump is over.
AWeb - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#406809) #
Holy hell Toronto, apparently going for the Pythagoras championship today.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#406810) #
Lynn off to a good start, 3 up 3 down for the Red Sox in the first.
rikley - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#406811) #
Apparently the Jays didnít take batting practice before the game. Guess they figured the game itself would be like batting practice. Wow!
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#406812) #
This is all part of the push to get Ray and Matz to re-up. "You want to pitch against this outfit?"
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#406813) #
The Blue Jays records for a single game is 24 runs scored, 10 HR, 53 bases and 24 RBI, all against Baltimore.


Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#406814) #
going for the Pythagoras championship today.

Yeah, no mystery this year. When a team's actual W-L record doesn't match up with their Pythagorean projection, it's because of either a) weird results in one-run games or b) weird results in blowouts, or c) a combination of the two. The 2021 Jays have a perfectly reasonable 14-15 record in one-run games. They're very, very good in the blowouts (26-12) and they really, really pile on the additional runs. It makes me curious, to investigate just how many excessive runs they've scored (need to define excessive, etc.) compared to the other teams....
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#406815) #
The Blue Jays records for a single game is 24 runs scored

In a 4-inning span, yesterday and today, they scored 27 runs in 4 innings. I wonder if such a thing has ever been done by anybody?

Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#406816) #
Guess they figured the game itself would be like batting practice.

It's not clear that Orioles in-game pitching is as difficult to hit as Blue Jay batting practice pitching. If any batting practice pitchers are thinking of resigning, the Jays could grab a bunch of resumes from the Orioles' dugout.

uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#406817) #
Jansen up to a 100wrc+ now.

And still rising, maybe.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#406818) #
Lou Gehrig. Chuck Klein. Ted Williams.

Guerrero could potentially add his name to that list, triple crown winners who did not win the MVP. Ohtani will rightfully win the AL MVP, and Guerrero may not even be the best player on his own team. That said, I think he'll finish second in the MVP race and even get some first place votes should the Jays land in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, good friend Teoscar may be a fly in the triple crown ointment on the RBI front. "Sorry bro, you just keep getting on base in front of me."

AWeb - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#406819) #
I looked a month ago and the Jays have significantly larger blowout wins than losses. By a lot, the Jays have almost no huge losses like today's score is right now.

Cleveland still without a hit through 5 innings today.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#406820) #
Jansen up to a 100wrc+ now.

Mike Green deserves a big mea culpa here from many of us, myself included, who were not convinced that Jansen was in fact a major league hitter (I mean he did give us many reasons to doubt him).

As others have mentioned, you get offense from Gurriel and the catchers, and you have Springer in the lineup, now you've got an elite offense.

92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#406821) #
If Guerrero wins the Triple Crown and the Jays are a playoff team Vlad deserves to be the MVP, and the vote will be much closer than people assume.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#406822) #
Gotta appreciate what Matz is doing here - just throwing strikes to keep his pitch count down and save the bullpen as much as possible, even if it hurts his stats.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#406823) #
The 24 runs and 24 RBI came in June 1978 against a pretty good (90-71) Orioles team. Mike Flanagan started the game for the Orioles, and the Jays scored 9 in the second, 4 in the third, 6 in the fourth, and 5 in the fifth. That's all 24 runs in four innings, by which time Weaver had gone to his second position player on the mound (backup catcher Elrod Hendricks, who gave him 2.1 shutout innings.) John Mayberry, who didn't even start the game (he pinch hit for Ault in the second inning) hit the team's only two homers and drove in seven. It was one of just two MLB games played by Brian Milner, the Jays 18 year old catching prospect - he went 3-5 with a triple, scored three and drove in two.

The ten homers and 53 total bases came in an 18-3 win over an awful (67-95) Orioles team in September 1987. I seem to remember listening to this one on the radio - it was a Monday night, the game wouldn't have been televised. Ernie Whitt hit three, Rance Mullinks and George Bell both hit two, and Fred McGriff, Lloyd Moseby, and Rob Ducey had one apiece. It was Ducey's first MLB homer.
SK in NJ - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#406824) #
If Matz can get through 6, then I'd just have Thornton finish the last 3, or at the most give Merryweather a low leverage inning to get some work in with Thornton going the rest. This is a very rare off day for the bullpen. Much needed going into the 3 game series against the Rays.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#406825) #
So Lamb now has a 120wrc+ with the jays so far.

Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#406826) #
many of us, myself included, who were not convinced that Jansen was in fact a major league hitter (I mean he did give us many reasons to doubt him).

Oh, I think that was mostly me, me, me! And you're right, he did provide many reasons. I was, after all, in the habit of naming various NL pitchers who were having better seasons with the bat. I like to think I was challenging him....

Lou Gehrig. Chuck Klein. Ted Williams.

Klein and Williams both finished second in the voting - Klein hit .368 with 28 HR and 120 RBI, and both the homers and RBIs were considerably less than his previous few years. It actually looked like a bit of a down year for him. And his team finished seventh in an eight team league. So Carl Hubbell (23-12, 1.66) won the award for the first place Giants.

Ted was the runner-up in 1941, when he hit .406 (Joe DiMaggio, the streak) and he was the runner-up again the foloowing year, when his Triple Crown wasn't enough to beat out Joe Gordon. Man. Gordon was a great player having a very good season. But still....

As for Gehrig, he finished fifth in the MVP vote after hitting .363 with 49 HR and 166 RBIs in 1934. Fifth!! Because Lou Gehrig never got any respect, and the Yankees finished second. He was behind three Tigers (MVP Mickey Cochrane, Charlie Gehringer, and Schoolboy Rowe) and his own teammate Lefty Gomez.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#406827) #
Game record incoming.
Dr. Zarco - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#406828) #
Gurrielís line (AB-R-H-RBI) of 2-5-2-7 is awesome. Donít know that Iíve ever seen that.
Nigel - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#406829) #
Jansen is en fuego
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#406830) #
"I'd love to see the Jays 113wrc+ 735r offense catch the Astros 117wrc+ 143r for 1st in wrc+ and 2nd in runs in mlb. Won't catch the rays' 768r though."

Jays are now 13 runs ahead of the Astros, only 18 behind the Rays, and up to a 115wrc+.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#406831) #
Elrod Hendricks passed away 16 years ago. Otherwise, he might be next in line to pitch.
Chuck - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#406832) #
So Lamb now has a 120wrc+ with the jays so far.

Lamb to the slaughter.

Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#406833) #
This is... (drumroll, please) a Save opportunity for Trent Thornton. It would be the first of his career.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#406834) #
Trent Thornton, man.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#406835) #
Pull him before it's too late.
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#406836) #
I hope the lead is big enough that he doesn't blow it.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#406837) #
Thornton is just not MLB caliber.
I mean, if you can't use him now, then when?
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#406838) #
I always thought Jansen needed some time in AAA to figure things out.
That's basically what happened.

uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#406839) #
Chisox take the lead on Bosox.
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#406840) #
22 pitches to get the first out.

I'm not sure what he's trying to do, but narrow down is arsenal, repeat his delivery, doesn't not seem part of it.

SK in NJ - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#406841) #
I can't believe Thornton is this bad as a reliever.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#406842) #
Detroit just walked off the Rays. All the Jays need to do is go 6-0 vs. TB and then they only need to make up 3 games over the remaining 13. Don't ask Wilner the odds.
grjas - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#406843) #
Glad to see Jansen having success with the bat. He sure looked like a reasonable hitter in the minors. They will now have 3 very solid catchers including Moreno..... might make for a good trade option in a year or so.
Meanwhile the Jays are honing in on the record for a 3 game series... 47 runs. They are now at 44. I hope they aren't tiring themselves out....some have 6 at bats.
And yeah they certainly are back in the "elite offence" category. Hope it keeps up.
bpoz - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#406844) #
Our core position players are V good and getting better with more experience.

Now the pitching has to catch up. Then we are a good team for a few years.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#406845) #
Chisox take the lead on Bosox.

Craig Kimbrel gives it back.
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#406846) #
Yeah, I don't think you can lineup pitchers for a few years.
They got Ryu, Manoah, Berrios, Stripling, Hatch and Pearson for next year.
Quite a few middle relievers.  Just need to replace the pieces they lose every year. 
Eventually, an infielder will rise up to claim 3B.

Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#406847) #
Just bizarre that Kimbrel was so great when he was on the north side of town, and has been so awful on the south side. I know it's the baddest part of town, but sheesh.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#406848) #
Leury Garcia home run and the White Sox win 2-1. The Jays are now tied for WC1. And they lead Boston in the loss column. Truly remarkable. Way to go Blue Jays.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#406849) #
"Craig Kimbrel gives it back."

And boom, we're tied for first WC.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#406850) #
Kimbrel looks much bigger than days past, but it could have been those sweet ChiSox duds.

Boston's bullpen is in bad shape, and they fly across the country to play 3 in Seattle starting tomorrow.
Cynicalguy - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#406851) #
Jays have 19 games remaining:
*12 at home and 7 on the road
*10 against teams 2 of the 3 worst teams in the AL
*9 against Rays and Yankees, but 6 are at home
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#406852) #
Kimbrel was with the Cubs like six weeks ago, with a 0.49 ERA. He'd given up 13 hits in 36.2 innings. He was outrageously great.

I guess now he's in the big league.
92-93 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#406853) #
Well, halfway at least.

What's the logic behind the rule that would prevent Lamb from being on the playoff roster?
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#406854) #
I think it's a decent question to ask as to just how bad the NL is.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#406855) #
What's the logic behind the rule that would prevent Lamb from being on the playoff roster?

It's an ancient rule - I don't know how old, but it was definitely in effect back in 1920 (when Brooklyn graciously allowed Joe Sewell to play in the World Series - he'd taken over at shortstop after Ray Chapman was killed, but wouldn't normally have been eligible for the Series.)

It's possible that the thinking back then may have had something to do with bad teams selling their best players for cash, which used to happen all the time back in the day.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#406856) #
This is going to make me crazy, thank you very much. There was definitely a rule by 1920, that needed to be waived. And before 1903, there's not even any post-season to worry about.

I assume that something must have happened, in the years between 1903 and 1920, that caused them to put such a rule in place. I don't know what or when or why, and that makes me crazy!
Paul D - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#406858) #
This series makes me wish Jason Stark still had a column at ESPN
scottt - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#406859) #
What I find amazing is that the Padres are probably not even going to get a wildcard.
bpoz - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#406860) #
Right scottt. Preller is going to be very upset. He did so much.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#406861) #
"Baltimore? That's like getting hit in the head with a crowbar once a day."
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#406862) #
"I guess now he's in the big league"

Brad Hand is back safely in the bosom of the NL. He has a 0.00 ERA for the Mets in 4.1 innings.
Magpie - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#406863) #
This series makes me wish Jason Stark still had a column at ESPN

He's at the Athletic these days, and I'm sure this weekend will come up.
JohnL - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#406864) #
ďThe ten homersÖErnie Whitt hit three, Ē

Ernie was the one who hit the record-breaking 9th HR, and he reported that the HOF asked for his bat. He was glad to donate to counter the one piece of Ernie-memorabilia there, which was because he had made the final out in Len Barkerís perfect game against the Jays.

AlsoÖ the comments about Jayson Stark: lots of bizarre stats out of this weekend, but I havenít yet seen any count of how often Buck-n-Tabby raved about ďthese guys never quitÖ no quit in this teamÖ resilientÖĒ and variations. Best expressed in Tabbyís purrrring voice.
lexomatic - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#406865) #
So the last 200 PA, since July 1, Gurriel has 9.8% bb rate and 16.1% k rate. 20 xbh, 39rbi About 370obp and 510 slugging. 136 wrc+ 330babip.I know he's mr super streak, but 55 games at those numbers is pretty good. I am curious if this is his best sustained plate discipline,  would suggest interesting possibilities for next season.
Mike Green - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#406866) #
No mea culpa necessary, Chuck. 

Jansen was particularly unlucky earlier this season, and has been particularly lucky since his return.  His xwOBA has hardly moved at all, but his wOBA has gone from being ridiculously out of sync to right in sync.  We'll see if he can push it up another notch; he has the tools to be a Gene Tenace quality hitter but hasn't got there yet in the walk department especially. 
Glevin - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#406867) #
Today was OK but nearly enough bunting....

Glad to see Jansen turning things around. He always hit in the minors and looked good early in the majors so his lack of offense has been a surprise. A Jansen and Kirk duo looks pretty pretty good at C.
electric carrot - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#406868) #
Exactly -- 22 runs is great -- but how about some bunting?
pooks137 - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#406869) #
Gene Tenace is an interesting comp for Jansen.

Obviously he played in a different era from 1969-1983 and put up an impressive 47 bWAR over his career, mostly from his offense, as BBRef evaluates him as a slightly below average catcher defensively for his career. He also interestingly started over 40% of his games at 1B, so he wasn't a pure catcher.

Tenace has an impressive 1:1 BB:K ratio for his career with a batting line of 241/388/429, OPS .817 and OPS+ 136.

It's also interesting that Tenace demonstrated a fair amount of HR power with 5 separate 20 HR seasons, but seemingly a lower than expected .429 career SLG%.

I hadn't realized that Jansen more-or-less showed an even BB:K ratio in the minors. His MLB career line off 77 BBs to 167 Ks is a little under 1:2, which is decent but will make it very difficult to match Tenace's batting eye and even moreso in the modern environment.

It similarly seems unrealistic to hope that Jansen could put up a ~130 OPS+ going forward like Tenace could.

However, I do agree that with some better BABIP luck and some improved walk rates, it is possible to squint to imagine Jansen putting up a modern-day poor man's Tenace line looking something like 235/325/415, which would certainly play as an everyday starting catcher on this team.
uglyone - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#406870) #
Brad Hand.
Spifficus - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#406871) #
That wasn't Hand's fault - Rodriguez had it nailed that it should have been a no-brainer IBB to Stanton. Hand was just the one to let Rojas know that he chose poorly.
greenfrog - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#406872) #
Francisco Lindor hits his second home run of the game, and the Mets lead 7-6, bottom 8.
Spifficus - Sunday, September 12 2021 @ 11:59 PM EDT (#406873) #
No, it was his third, and it was Sassy.

Sullen-Stanton Cam is a good addition to the broadcast after what went on earlier.
greenfrog - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#406874) #
Third! Yes. Thank you.
Spifficus - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#406875) #
My pleasure; the last two have been highly entertaining (I didn't get the game on until the 4th-ish).
Spifficus - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:19 AM EDT (#406876) #
Ok, Stanton popping up to Lindor to end the game was *chef's kiss*
greenfrog - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#406877) #
Diaz gets it done. Mets win.

All four of the Jaysí competitors (Oak, Sea, Bos, NYY) lost by one run today.
Magpie - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#406878) #
Four hours, six minutes. Yikes.
Spifficus - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 12:24 AM EDT (#406879) #
The one-run losses now afflicting the rivals seems like it twists that saying to 'Die by the sword, kill by the sword'
Leaside Cowboy - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 05:39 AM EDT (#406880) #
The Blue Jays out-scored 14 of 28 NFL teams who played on Sunday.
Petey Baseball - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 06:46 AM EDT (#406882) #
BluejayWay that is an amazing 12 Angry Men reference.
scottt - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 06:47 AM EDT (#406883) #
They Yankees go to Baltimore than get a bunch of easy home series.
They will end the year on the road going Boston-Tampa-Toronto.

BlueJayWay - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#406884) #
Four hours, six minutes. Yikes.


Manfred's made a lot of noise about pace of play. But until he implements a strict pitch clock and somehow forces batters to stay in the box between pitches, I'm just not taking him seriously about that.
John Northey - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 07:53 AM EDT (#406885) #
A batting line of 322/407/637 - no, not Vlad's line, the
teams in September. OPS by player... Gurriel: 1.419; Jansen 1.398, Hernandez: 1.291; Semien 1.247; Kirk 1.227; Vlad 1.1116 (slacker); Grichuk 993; Valera 948; Bo 946; Lamb 735; Springer 699; Dickerson 445; Dyson 333; Smith and McGuire are 0-13 with an RBI (Sac Fly) combined.

Nice lineup so far over 12 games.
Chuck - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#406886) #
Jansen (58%). Springer (55%). Semien (50%).

Percentage of hits that go for extra bases.

John Northey - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#406887) #
By SRS (Simple Rating System) listed on BR the Jays are tied for #1 in the AL with Houston, Tampa just behind. The tragic number for being eliminated from the division title is 11 now with 19 to play. These 3 vs Tampa would've been 'must wins' if it was a 'win or nothing' ala 1993 and earlier. Jays 9 back of Tampa right now.

FYI: Milwaukee should be the first to clinch a division title with a magic number of 5 (Cincinnati and St Louis). White Sox have a magic of 9 (Cleveland). Right now the Jays, if they won the wild card game, would play Tampa in the Division Series (ugh).
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#406888) #
Nice one Magpie!

Oh Leroy was a gamblerÖ
bpoz - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#406889) #
I still see this team as a developing team.

Vlad, Bo and Teoscar are showing that they are very good. Gurriel is also V good but very streaky. They are playing smarter baseball now. This is Vlad and Bo's 1st full season. Gurriel did not have to go down. Teoscar is the finished product now.

The rotation got lucky this year with Ray and Manoah. Matz is having his best season. Then Atkins getting Berrios adds to a strong rotation.

The pen was terrible. It is ok now possibly because the rotation is not overtaxing them.

So basically the core of this team has proved that they can handle every team except TB. They get the chance to handle TB now.
Magpie - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#406890) #
I was looking into some pace of play issues. I don't know if I'm interested enough in the subject to take a really serious look. You'd want to consider how many mid-inning pitching changes there were, how many separate at bats (and at bats with men on base), stuff like that. But I did look at the number of pitches thrown and the length it took to play all of yesterday's games. And then I did the same thing for the second September Sunday in 1991, 2001, and 2011.

In 1991, the thirteen games played averaged 277 pitches in 173 minutes. That's 1.60 pitches per minute.

The fifteen games played yesterday averaged 292 pitches in 194 minutes, which is 1.51 pitches per minute.

All told, yesterday we had 15 more pitches per game, which lasted an extra 21 minutes. The extra length is caused by the combination of the two, each roughly equal in importance - it's more pitches, with a bit more time between each.

Individual games vary widely, of course. Yankees-Mets was unbearably slow, Jays-Orioles was remarkably quick. Jays-Orioles had the most pitches of any yesterday's games (377), but it was a blowout from the start and everyone got on with it - 1.83 pitches per minute, which is positively brisk. Yankees-Mets was a close game til the end, had lots of pitches (336, third highest of the day), and proceeded at a snail's pace (just 1.37 pitches per minute, the slowest pace of any of the 58 games I happened to look at.
92-93 - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#406891) #
There would be no need for a pitch clock if the umpires enforced this rule:

"Rule 6.02(b) Comment: The batter leaves the batterís box at the risk of having a strike delivered and called, unless he requests the umpire to call ďTime.Ē The batter is not at liberty to step in and out of the batterís box at will. Once a batter has taken his position in the batterís box, he shall not be permitted to step out of the batterís box in order to use the resin or the pine tar rag, unless there is a delay in the game action or, in the judgment of the umpires, weather conditions warrant an exception."

Most pitchers aren't Dolis and want to work quickly. If they got the ball back and the hitter was ready, the game would move MUCH quicker.
BlueJayWay - Monday, September 13 2021 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#406921) #
In 1991, the thirteen games played averaged 277 pitches in 173 minutes. That's 1.60 pitches per minute.

The fifteen games played yesterday averaged 292 pitches in 194 minutes, which is 1.51 pitches per minute.

I've done these calculations for a few years. I call it "Pitch Pace"....literally number of pitches in the game, divided by the length of the game in minutes. I've found that in recent years the average is around 1.60 or so, but usually faster in the past.
Even nowadays you can get some games up over 1.70. The Jays Orioles game yesterday was 1.83, which is the fastest number I've seen, actually. I've found that if games are 1.65 pitches/min or more, especially if 1.7 or more, the game feels like it has decent pace. Some games drop into the low 1.50s, and some are even like 1.45. Those are a slog.

The other issue, as you point out, is the number of pitches in a game. A game with 340 pitches will take longer than one with 285. The average number of pitches for a non-extra inning game this year is about 293, and a lot of games are over 300. Well back in the past this number was more like 250, 260...another reason games are longer now (and complete games rarer).
The higher pitch counts now seem to be almost entirely due to more foul balls and swing and misses. More balls put in play will not only be more exciting to watch, it'll resolve at bats more quickly and the games will move faster.
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