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Haven't been writing much in these parts lately, and seeing as this is one of my favourite annual traditions...



It's that time of year again! The leaves are falling, the champions have polished off their considerable amounts of champagne... it is indeed now the silly season where even the most foolish of predictions can run amok. And as an extremely silly and foolish person myself, I feel as qualified for this task as ever. 

We're working off of Fangraphs Top 50 list this time around, and while most of this is going to be opinion-based rather than scientific (I have my biases) I'll attempt to make most of my observations and predictions as thoughtful as possible. Or at the very least, somewhat amusing.  

Lets roll! Also, I'm using the BBref version of WAR.


#1. Juan Soto - OF, New York Yankees (OPS .989, 7.9 WAR)

The fact that Soto isn't even technically in his prime yet, has been astoundingly healthy throughout his career, and has guys like Bryce Harper, Frank Robinson, Ken Griffey Jr, Mickey Mantle and Mike Trout as his most similar hitters at age 25... there's little doubt Soto is the prize of this free agent market and is about to be rewarded appropriately. 

There is no team in baseball history that couldn't find a spot for this kind of bat. He does seem like such a perfect fit as a Yankee (ugh!) and could probably hit 200 home runs between now and before he turns 30 with that stupid short right field porch (hell, give me 100 BP pitches, as a LH I bet I could hit at least one out in New Yankee Stadium, Costanza style).
 
Problem is... do the Yankees have the money to keep him? Probably: they are the freaking Yankees after all... but it isn't so automatic. One could see the crosstown Mets making a serious bid, the Dodgers are always lingering and seemingly have more money to spend than several Micronesian countries... or maybe some other dark horse emerges and swoops on in, which is where we come in. 

The Blue Jays make sense as that dark horse, and maybe it's the gloom of the current world finally wrecking my objectivity for good (this is Kamp Krusty and I'm Bart in the corner mumbling "Krusty is coming! Krusty is coming!)... but I genuinely think we have a chance. 

Not a great chance, hell no... I wouldn't wager on it, but I also wouldn't be totally shocked if Toronto landed Soto. He's basically exactly what the team needs, and money be damned getting him would seriously rejuvenate a currently very (and mostly rightfully) cynical fanbase. I've heard the argument they should just throw the money they had set for Ohtani at Soto, but that was indeed a once in a generation situation and international investment opportunity. Getting Soto would boost the on-field team and maybe get some more butts in seats, however considering Ohtani's worldwide appeal and superstardom Soto isn't really comparable in that way. Still... Rogers oozes money, they just bought MLSE fer-cryin'out-loud... they've been willing to spend before and so lets see it again.

Anyhow, best odds are Soto stays in New York... just depends if it's in the Bronx or a move to Queens. Then we can spend all winter talking ourselves into Michael Conforto instead. Hmmm... so much for my jokes I guess.


#2. Willy Adames - SS, Milwaukee Brewers (.794 OPS, 3.1 WAR)

It's quite a drop from first to second on this year's list, going from one of the greatest hitters of this generation to a zero time all-star. No offense to Adames, who is a very very good player that generally gives you a bit of everything: quality defender, some power from the shortstop position and will draw some walks for you. He's more of a really solid #2 hitter on a contending team than a perfect middle of the order compliment for Guerrero Jr, and one figures he'd be sliding over to third base on this current construction of the Blue Jays (that can of course change, but I doubt the incumbent is getting dealt at his current nadir of value). 

Adames just screams like the kind of guy who gets overpaid by a middling team desperate for a big move... which does describe the Jays, true... but signing him really feels like a Giants move. He is good! Adames even at his floor makes your team better. Just not quite "superstar" good, and coming off a career year that's what you'll be paying for.   


#3. Alex Bregman - 3B, Houston Astros (.768, 4.1 WAR)        

The age (Bregman turns 31 at the start of the season) reminds a lot of the last longtime Astro to cash in north of the border. While I've always liked Bregman a lot as a player and he's been quite consistent for the most part (though his age 24-25 power surge looks quite out of place) one thinks a long contract might not look so hot those final few years (also sounds familiar eh). 

In fact, the decline appeared to already be in motion until he turned things around in the second half of 2024 (an .833 OPS compared to a .730). There are some warning signs! Positives though: Bregman, assuming he has a couple typical years left in him, would fill the hole at third base and remains a very good fielder. Never really a Gold Glove guy and *looks up stats* oh geez he won the Gold Glove just this past season? Well... now that Matt Chapman is in the National League I guess that clicks. 

Again, I really like the player but the career numbers are clearly juiced by those two MVP-level seasons and it's unlikely he's that guy ever again. More of an excellent complimentary player than a main ticket. He'd be a nice addition but not the starry splash the name recognition makes it appear to be. If the Blue Jays sign him... thumbs up for sure but they still need so much more.   


#4. Corbin Burnes - SP, Baltimore Orioles (15-9, 2.92, 3.4 WAR)

Burnes didn't miss a beat moving from the gentler NL Central into the gauntlet of the AL East... although his strikeout rate has continued to plummet (12.6, 10.8, 9.3 to 8.4 this past season). He's still a workhorse who is stingy on both baserunners and allowing runs... and while pitchers are inherently unpredictable, Burnes seems like a good bet to remain dominant at least for a couple more years, having just turned 30 a few weeks ago. While splashy, seems like adding Burnes wouldn't be the big play for the Blue Jays: I'll predict they shop around in the next tier of pitching rather than the absolute top guy here, if they shop for starting pitching at all. 


#5. Gerrit Cole - SP, New York Yankees (8-5, 3.41, 2.0 WAR)

He's not leaving the Yankees, full stop. They're already renegotiating his contract.

If Soto resigns in the Bronx and they add some other quality bat (Christian Walker perhaps)... just go re-watch the 5th inning against the Dodgers wherein the Yankees invent entirely new ways of blowing a big lead. I don't much care for Gerrit Cole one bit and his exasperation (much of it his own fault for not covering first base) simply warms my battered cold spirit.


#6. Blake Snell - SP, San Francisco Giants (5-3, 3.12, 2.1 WAR)

I've never trusted the health. While he's clearly often exceptional when he can take the mound, he's typically been a 100-120 inning per season guy... also not helped by that he can walk the entire ballpark. Hitters don't know where his pitches are going and neither does he. 

The stuff is electric, of course, and if you get 30 starts out of him he's an instant Cy Young contender. Even 20-25 you're probably smiling. Coming off a season he only pitched 104 innings... if you can get him at a reasonable amount this is the kind of high-reward gamble I could get behind. But he's a big risk to miss half the season at the same time. Someone is going to jump into the deep end, me thinks. Best of luck to ya.


#7. Max Fried - SP, Atlanta Barves (11-10, 3.25, 3.5 WAR)

While the tantalizing qualities aren't nearly as wild as Snell's (nor the stuff) Fried's results have been nearly as good. He's at 73-36, 3.07 for his career, has been generally healthy with 2023 as an exception, and is still in his general pitching prime about to turn 31. You could see a Gausman-like deal here, probably a fair bit more annually... but he'd immediately at worst become the second best pitcher on the team.  Again, maybe not the biggest area of team need considering how much they might have to spend... but he would be a great addition. Dude is a terrific arm.


#8. Jack Flaherty - SP, Detroit Tigers/Los Angeles Dodgers (13-7, 3.17, 3.1 WAR)

Maybe getting out of St. Louis was all he needed? Or is it a fluke career/comeback year at a perfect time after years in the wilderness? 

Personally I'm not a believer, although he is young enough (29 next season) to have figured something out. He was extremely good until 2022 when injuries started eating him up. Not worthy of Fried/Burnes like money of course, and despite the ERA he pitched merely okay as a Dodger (his up and down postseason performance evidence of that). Someone is gonna believe in the youth and the talent and so will open up the bank. Not convinced I want it to be us, but I've been wrong many times before. 


#9. Ha-Seong Kim - SS, San Diego Padres (.700 OPS, 2.6 WAR)

Like the player, not the fit. Don't we already have a bunch of these types? Terrific middle infield defender without much pop? He's certainly more willing to take a walk than Ernie Clement (one suspects the entire planet of Earth is) and his ability to swipe some bags could make him an intriguing leadoff option seeing as I think we can all agree Springer's days there are not long if the team wants to genuinely contend. 

Kim will be 29 and you could talk me into him being a temporary solution at second base and occasional shortstop (although he is a far better fielder than Bichette so... probably a tough sell). Also considering what a tough place San Diego is on hitters (Kim's slugging percentage is 35 points better on the road)... yeah lets rock and roll, I think Arden Zwelling agrees as well. However... Kim cannot be the big position player add. Great player, but like I said bringing him in is doubling down on a strength not a need, and this front office has done that before to very infuriating results. 


#10. Gleyber Torres - 2B, New York Yankees (.709 OPS, 1.8 WAR)

A definite change of scenery guy, and I'm intrigued. 

New York seems completely fed up with him (tough crowd but he does have his weird lapses) and honestly his career could go in any number of directions. Wouldn't surprise me if it all clicks somewhere and he hits 30 homers as a middle infielder, or he becomes a barely passable DH and washes out of the league in a few years. He turns 28 in December and I like the idea of buying low on the potential, even if he is kind of a butcher as a defender. Hey, pure defensive guys! We got plenty of those! 

Does Torres have the arm for third base? He played there a little in the minors. An interesting case no doubt, I like the power potential, and he really gets on base. All depends on if that pop comes back, and there may be an injury explanation for it. On a short "prove it" contract... yeah lets do it. As an upside play it's a great roll of the dice, and even the floor and youth is better than you think.  


#11. Teoscar Hernandez - OF, Los Angeles Dodgers (.840 OPS, 4.3 WAR)

That worked out pretty darn well for our old friend Teo, didn't it? A career high in homers (including winning the derby) and several memorable post-season moments (don't forget he hit two dingers in the infamous 8-1 game... which barring an unlikely reunion likely stands as his forever final game in Blue Jay blue). An incredibly fun player with still tremendous power (the Seattle year seems like the fluke) and this is his best chance to get legit paid. Hope he stays in LA or, depending on what happens with Soto... please not New York. 


#12. Anthony Santander - OF, Baltimore Orioles (.814 OPS, 2.9 WAR)

Reliable but merely very good power hitting corner outfielder hits a bunch of homers in contract year, will cash in. 

He's a couple years younger than Hernandez but not quite the same caliber of power bat (and with a career OBP of .307 and negative defense... his value is tied entirely in his ability to sock dingers). There's a good chance Santander is still this guy for a few more years, clubbing lots of home runs while slowly shifting into a pure DH role (and the switch hitting is useful)... alas the one dimensional aspect of Santander makes me hesitant. Even Kendrys Morales could get on base a little bit. Maybe Santander becomes the next Nelson Cruz and hits home runs seemingly forever, but there's also a reason Cruz is such a memorable player. Not a lot of dudes end up doing that one thing so long with that specific profile.


#13. Pete Alonso - 1B, New York Mets (.788 OPS, 2.6 WAR)

In theory, if we're talking versatility... Santander is the more valuable player than Alonso (who is limited to first base only) and can also switch hit. In theory.

I quite like Alonso's offensive profile more: more on-base ability, typically more power, and the awesome nickname. If he's really looking for and expecting 200 million I don't think I like him that much more... especially when considering he only plays one position currently occupied by the Blue Jays best player (although I still like the idea of Vlad Jr. getting 40-50ish starts at third in such a scenario... not ideal but I think he's up to it). 

The 40 homer version of the Polar Bear would be quite an addition to this team and indeed that second dangerous middle of the order bat. If he's more the 2024 version going forward... that's still a solid hitter but ecch there's a dicey contract should he continue to slide. Regardless, I'd approve of the move if it is reasonable. But Christian Walker and a Goldschmidt bounceback also are floating around as potentially shorter and immediately as useful contributions.  


#14. Shane Bieber - SP, Cleveland Guardians (2-0, two starts before getting injured)

A very very good pitcher when healthy, arguably on the same level of Corbin Burnes just without the innings. Like Burnes, the drop in strikeouts has been noticeable... and Bieber is coming off Tommy John surgery, so you're not completely sure how long it's going to take him to regain that previous form, if he even does. 

Bieber was more of a pinpoint command guy than somebody heating up the radar gun, so even if the fastball comes back around 90 instead of 93 he can probably get by. Much like the Blue Jays did with Chad Green, I could envision a creatively structured contract while rolling the dice on him, although in Alek Manoah they already have a Tommy John wildcard returning in the back half of 2025. Could make a worse gamble I suppose, and it would be a compelling move regardless.


#15. Sean Manaea - SP, New York Mets (12-6, 3.47, 3.0 WAR)

I have no clue what to expect from this dude anymore. Seems clear he figured out something in the second half of 2024 by dropping his arm angle ala Chris Sale (the broadcast wouldn't shut-up about it, but it was noticeable) and he still racks up the strikeouts... but he'll be turning 33 and looking to capitalize. Not sure I like the risk, but I was wrong about Kikuchi once upon a time as well. Feel like Manaea is best served staying in New York anyhow.


#16. Yusei Kikuchi - SP, Toronto Blue Jays/Houston Astros (9-10, 4.05, 1.4 WAR)

Speaking of Yusei... we've talked about him a ton in these parts and we pretty much know who he is. Was damn great in Houston, somewhat unlucky in Toronto, and depending on how Jake Bloss shakes out (or if Will Wagner continues looking the part a major league hitter, or Joey Loperfido figures out how to be one) this might be a "good for both sides" kind of deal... for now I like him a lot but probably not at what he'll be looking for. 


#17. Nathan Eovaldi - SP, Texas Rangers (12-8, 3.80, 2.3 WAR)

I feel like every time I write one of these pieces, there's Eovaldi and his quality mid-rotation-ness out there as a free agent. His 30s career has been remarkably consistent, he still misses bats, has playoff pedigree (and remains a playoff quality starter) while still rarely walking anybody. He'll be 35 next season and the obvious question is how much longer can he keep up this reliable floor of quality and innings... but if he can keep it up a while longer he still slots into any rotation and won't be wildly expensive because of his age. Sure!


#18. Christian Walker - 1B, Arizona Diamondbacks (.803 OPS, 2.6 WAR)

He'll be 34, which is concerning. He's also won three straight gold gloves, which does suggest his athleticism hasn't slipped too much. Much of what he brings with the stick is similar to the Alonso package just without the splashy name recognition or perceived upside... but I'm extremely suspicious of power hitters coming from Arizona (Varsho *cough*) rather than the rather spacious Citi Field. 

Walker's age will make him much cheaper than the Polar Bear, but leaving Chase Field might make him look more like an average bat than a quality middle of the order one. Extremely lukewarm on this one, even if I do like him overall as a player. It's just that so much of his value is tied in actually playing first base... and Guerrrero Jr. I figure is still going to be playing at least half his games there in 2025. Kind of an awkward fit unless Vlad is going to third full time, which is it's own separately bad idea. 


#19. Tanner Scott - RP, Miami Marlins/San Diego Padres (9-6, 1.75, 4.0 WAR)

The Blue Jays need to fix their painfully awful bullpen to even have a prayer in 2025, and Tanner Scott is the best reliever that money can buy. 

Scott has been extremely good the past couple years, is only 30... but this all comes after a stretch of not goodness before (lots of strikeouts, plenty of walks). He still loses the zone more than you'd like, with most of his recent success coming off just being impossible to hit (which admittedly is a nice skill to have). I don't quite see this particular Blue Jays front office investing so much in this level of reliever anyhow: they tend to like shopping in the middle, safer tier, and while Scott could indeed end up being truly elite for quite some time he won't be a bargain.


#20. Blake Treinen - RP, Los Angeles Dodgers (7-3, 1.93, 1.4 WAR)

As the postseason showed... Treinen has just a filthy slider, and even with the sinker lacking it's previous sizzle, when relief shopping you definitely want to bet on a truly elite pitch even if the man throwing it is 37. 

Alas, he's also a bit of a jerk and coming off a couple seasons before this one wherein he barely pitched, and his playoff heroics will probably get somebody to overpay for him. No thanks. 


#21. Tyler O'Neill - OF, Boston Red Sox (.847 OPS, 2.6 WAR)

He's Canadian! He's still young! (turns 30 next June) He hits home runs! He doesn't do much else (his career has basically been a roller coaster ride) and those final two years as a Cardinal do concern me. He also gets hurt a lot. Could finally have realized his talent as a useful 30+ homer guy? Could just be an expensive platoon bat (his .209/.290/.403 versus RHP this past season for the Red Sox also concerns me). Nevertheless, he's a legitimate lefty-masher. Worth a looksy, me thinks... even if I don't believe in the random Gold Glove.


#22. Jurickson Profar - OF, San Diego Padres (.839 OPS, 3.7 WAR)

The Nathan Eovaldi of free agent position players... Profar is just always here. He's a weird player: a career OPS+ of 113 as a Padre, considerably below average everywhere else. Not a good outfielder, not even in left-field... but he has decent power, draws walks and strikes out less than the average dude. Myself... I don't trust him outside of San Diego (this is a guy who recently posted an OPS of .680 in freaking Colorado) but surely somebody will try and unlock the Padre version of Profar somewhere. Not here, please. This screams "bad contract" unless he's in those 80s McDonald's colours, for whatever reason.  


#23. Nick Martinez - SP, Cincinnati Reds (10-7, 3.10, 4.0 WAR) -- accepted Reds qualifying offer

Yowza... what a season! A forgettable swingman on the Rangers teams of the mid 2010s, Martinez went to pitch in Japan for four seasons, returned to MLB with the Padres in 2022 and was much more effective in that same swingman role. He signed up with the Reds for 2024 and was even better: pitching in 42 games (16 starts), 142.1 innings and walking only 18(!) to 116 strikeouts. He has a player option for 12 million but one imagines he'll forgo that in search of a longer deal somewhere, and as a potentially cheap-ish rotation option he is intriguing. Possibly this season's version of Seth Lugo: an older starter (34) with considerable relief experience who doesn't overpower but has a bunch of weapons he can throw strikes with. FanGraphs wrote the exact same thing and I swear I thought of the Lugo comparison before reading their blurb. Honest! 


#24. Walker Buehler - SP, Los Angeles (1-6, 5.38, -1.3 WAR)

Buehler... Buehler... Buehler... 

Despite his World Series heroics (he'd never recorded an MLB save previously) Walker had a difficult return to the majors after missing most of 2022 and 2023 to injury. There's enough of a track record (he'd been an all-star in 2019 and 2021) for the 30 year old to get a look somewhere, and considering the constant pitching injury issues of the Dodgers it might not even be a shock to see Buehler back in LA on a pillow contract. Still, if he did shake loose... the upside is mighty tantalizing on a short deal. 


#25. Nick Pivetta - SP, Boston Red Sox (6-12, 4.14, 1.8 WAR)

A weird season for the native of Victoria. He's generally been a quality back rotation starter since joining the American League, finally cut down on the walks without losing the strong strikeout rate... and lost 12 games for his trouble on a .500ish Boston team. 

Pivetta has always been fairly prone to homers and this year it jumped up to 4.7 percent... which is not what you want. It's like your dollar store version of Nathan Eovaldi, though maybe still some upside and still a few years younger... this is likely pretty much all you can realistically hope for. Maybe a larger park helps the homers come down but even so this is the definition of an okay number four starter.  


#26. Luis Severino - SP, New York Mets (11-7, 3.91, 1.6 WAR)

He looked like the next young ace of the Yankees back in the mid-2010s, had two seasons (2017-18) where it seemed to be happening and he scared the living Timothy Dalton daylights out of me... then the injuries got him. 

Severino pitched just seven MLB games in three years, and after a 2022 bounceback his 2023 was bad enough (4-8, 6.65) for the Yankees to say farewell. He crosses over to Queens, puts up his first 182 inning season in over half a decade... and while he wasn't quite as purely dominant as that two year run in the Bronx, Severino gave the Mets more than they could've asked for on their 13 million bucks. He'll be seeking multiple years guaranteed this go-around, as a 31 year old, and if the injury issues (always a big if with pitchers) are behind him he's got a strong chance to be a solid mid-rotation arm for the immediate future. The injury woes robbed him of his once-flamethrower velocity but he's mixed in more movement on his fastball to compensate. If the Blue Jays are serious about adding another starter, honestly this isn't a bad bet. 


#27. Jeff Hoffman - RP, Philadelphia Phillies (3-3, 2.17, 2.0 WAR)

How is this dude almost 32 already? Shipping him off in the Tulowitzki trade wasn't that long ago... although I suppose Hoffman is the only player in that trade still active (*edit: not true, both Miguel Castro and Jesus Tinoco pitched for MLB teams in 2024).

Hoffman has taken a common path to becoming a dominant reliever, his sorry recent playoff showing that withstanding (nobody in that Phillies pen was pitching sharply in October anyhow, I doubt the ghost of Tug McGraw could've saved them). He was generally awful as a Rockie (these things happen), then Cincinnati got a hold of him and after 11 starts ditched the whole starting pitcher thing. He was pretty meh at the relief thing as a Red but the Phillies picked him up and suddenly the walks and hits disappeared, while the strikeouts jumped. That always helps, especially in contract years. 

Not sure I buy it at any significant amount of money, but guys like this always get paid in the hopes they've finally unlocked all that tasty potential (see another former Red in Robert Stephenson). Sometimes you get Wade Davis (Royals version) and sometimes you get Wade Davis (Rockies version). I tend to lean the latter on big relief contracts.  


#28. Clay Holmes - RP, New York Yankees (3-5, 3.14, 0.7 WAR)

For a guy so constantly talked about having lost his closer's role during New York's playoff run, aside from a few more hits Holmes was pretty much the same guy he'd always been. Personally, I like the idea of adding him. That super-sinker can be downright nasty, he's nearly impossible to hit one over the fence on, and he keeps the free passes reasonably under control. I think he's a safer bet as a relief option than anyone we've discussed on this list so far, although maybe not with the super high upside. Jordan Romano is such a question mark, you can bring in Holmes with a strong implication he is going to be finishing games. 


#29. Joc Pederson - OF, Arizona Diamondbacks (.908 OPS, 2.9 WAR)

The mirror universe version of Tyler O'Neill: all Pederson does is destroy right-handed pitching. Get both! Would be a fine (though expensive) platoon. One of them has to grow a goatee though, just so we know which is the evil one.


#30. Max Scherzer - SP, Texas Rangers (2-4, 3.95, 0.4 WAR)

I've always loved watching Mad Max pitch. Problem is, he's about to turn 41 in July and the durability is starting to become a problem. Power pitchers rarely bounce back in their age 41 season, usually the opposite (Verlander's rough 2024 is proof of that) and while I would absolutely adore it if the Blue Jays made such a gamble... there is as much a chance that his long impressive career is cooked. But I hope not. He is so much fun.


#31. Charlie Morton - SP, Atlanta Barves (8-10, 4.19, 1.1 WAR)

Morton is even older than Scherzer, and while his ability to still make 30 starts every darn year is impressive... the quality of those innings have been slipping. Throw him at the wall as your veteran number five starter? He's wily and probably has another decent year or two if the termites stay away. But he's also going to be 41 several months before the 2025 season starts. Time waits for no one. 


#32. Justin Verlander - SP, Houston Astros (5-6, 5.48, -0.3 WAR)

As I've said every year Verlander has been out here... it would be cool to see Verlander finally throw a no-hitter for the Blue Jays instead of against them. 

Like Mad Max, he might be near the end though. He'll be 42(!) when the season starts and is coming off his worst non-rookie season. Love to see him stick around as long as possible, and the underlying stats suggest was only bleh instead of truly as bad as ERA suggests... but at a point a guy like this has done and achieved everything the game can offer. You don't want the game to lose him, but you understand when and how it passes him by. Hope he can do what few are gifted to do: bounce back and go out on your own terms, Verlander. 


#33. Andrew Heaney - SP, Texas Rangers (5-14, 4.28, 0.8 WAR)

Another guy who always seem to be bouncing around at this particular stage of their career. Heaney has settled into your generic average left-handed starter, ideally not somebody starting playoff games for you but is decent-ish enough to maybe help get you there via soaking up innings at a strong clip. Heaney has had the career Steven Matz should've had. Heaney's stuff was likewise always intriguing but he's 34 now, the juice is slipping and this is more or less what he is anyhow. Meh. 


#34. Frankie Montas - SP, Cincinnati Reds/Milwaukee Brewers (7-11, 4.84, 0.6 WAR)

Step right up and behold yet another extremely average/to-below average MLB starter! He pitches innings! Serves up dingers! Loses the strikezone more than you'd prefer! Montas has been something notable in the past and this was his first full season staying on a mound in a while... so maaaaybe if you squint hard enough there's something else there? But 6-10 wins, about 150 mediocre innings feels about right. If he's even healthy. We are indeed in the zone of very unexciting starting pitchers. 


#35. Trevor Williams - SP, Washington Nationals (6-1, 2.03, 2.6 WAR)

Unlike the Montas or Heaneys of the world, Williams at least holds some intrigue being a soft tosser who gets by on guile and movement. He'll surrender plenty of moonshots (he's led the league twice) and allowing only three in 66.2 innings last year just screams "bizarre fluke" considering his career. I genuinely enjoy guys succeed with this type of stuff (my pitching career can relate) but it's such a high-wire act that can fall apart very quickly in this particular era of super-charged velocity and hitters swinging for the fences. 

Still, you can still succeed when you know what the hell you're doing. 


#36. Alex Cobb - SP, Cleveland Guardians (2-1, 2.76, 0.2 WAR)

Another guy I've always enjoyed watching... biting two-seamers and nasty changeup/splitter things. Surprisingly, aside from this past year he's been able to pitch probably more than you think the past few seasons, both for the Angels and Giants... whereas his considerable shakiness in the 2024 postseason for Cleveland surely couldn't have been helped by his year-long injury/blister issues. A flyer I wouldn't mind bringing in to fill out the back of the rotation, even if he's just a five-and-dive guy at this point. Multiple years of commitment? I don't like Cobb quite that much. 


#37. Aroldis Chapman - RP, Pittsburgh Pirates (5-5, 3.79, 0.4 WAR)

Nope. 


#38. Kenley Jansen - RP, Boston Red Sox (4-2, 3.29, 27 SV, 1.3 WAR)

Not gonna lie, I've got a soft spot for the big fella from Curacao (he and I were born the same month!) and I think there's still enough there in Jansen to be a useful 7th/8th inning dude in a playoff bullpen. He isn't the unhittable monster he was in his early Dodger days, but he's settled in as a reliable late inning option that can get whiffs and limit damage. The Jays bullpen would need more than this, but Jansen could be a fine stabilizing veteran add (with lots of closing experience) on a short deal. Sign me up.


#39. Kirby Yates - RP, Texas Rangers (7-2, 1.17, 33 SV, 3.3 WAR)

Do we try this again? Yates has been his old self since leaving Blue Jay land... giving Atlanta a fine middle relief season and then being ridiculously untouchable for the Rangers this past season. He'll be 38 in the spring and the health track record is, as we remember, not ideal... and expecting another season of a 1.17 ERA is not reasonable. But he clearly is legit when toeing the rubber and his splitter still gets tons of whiffs. Tough one.


#40. Carlos Estevez - RP, Philadelphia Phillies/Los Angeles Angels (4-5, 2.45, 26 SV, 2.1 WAR)

The stuff looks damn great and he finally figured out where it was going at the perfect time for the Angels and Phils (at least until the postseason for the latter). You could talk me into it but also at age 31, he's probably getting multiple years and that's where I get nervous... not to mention he seems to be a "trendy" bullpen pick. He seems to be a guy still with a bunch of pitches instead of two that are totally lethal, which can be problematic in short outings. As a pitcher I can relate: you've got four things that feel good that day but you're only throwing one inning... too many options in a tiny window, not all of them can fit through that space.
 


#41. Paul Goldschmidt - 1B, St.Louis Cardinals (.716 OPS, 1.3 WAR)

We were born the exact same day, and at 37 we're both looking well past our athletic primes. Come on Paul! I like Goldy a lot and much of this outlier 2024 season can be traced to a dreadful first half (a .664 OPS compared to .799 in the second). If he can just be that second half guy, which was essentially his 2023 season... he's a useful supporting bat. If he has one more 2022 season in him... well that would work just fine too but lets not get too greedy quite yet. 

It's tough with hitters of this certain age (tell me about it): Goldschmidt could be another smart Brandon Belt-like signing of a veteran guy (Belt was slightly younger at 35) or he could be about to totally fall off the cliff. Hey, it's why he's all the way down here on the list despite his fabulous career! Honestly... you could talk me into this one over Alonso, assuming they sign somebody much much better (Soto/Bregman) to fill out things. Banking on a Goldy bounceback as your key primary "fix the offense" move... kinda reeks of the Votto signing and if so please stop ruining September 10 birthdays for this franchise. Enough already. 

Random fact! Paul Goldschmidt has stolen 11 bases each of the last two seasons so at least he isn't a total base clogger... one presumes.                           


#42. Carlos Santana - 1B, Minnesota Twins (.749, 2.5 WAR)

Speaking of defying time... while I'm not convinced a 38 year old was the best defensive first baseman in the American League... at this point we should just sign him so he can stop torturing us with his constant clutch hits. Truly the Blue Jay Killer of our time. Naturally, we'll sign him and he'll stink... after being released he signs on with the Royals and gets a decisive hit in a Wild Card game. Evil ways, man.  


#43. Danny Jansen - C, Toronto Blue Jays/Boston Red Sox (.658, 0.7 WAR)

We know him well. After a three year stretch as one of the best hitting catchers in the game (also always getting hurt during those hot streaks... pull your hands in Danny!) Jano finally remained mostly healthy for an entire season and... well he hit like a catcher. Very very hard to see what the market is going to look like for him... somebody will some calling since he's still the best option on the market... but there's a lot of uncertainty here in that stick and that body. Best of luck to him. 


#44. Michael Conforto - OF, San Francisco Giants (.759, 1.3 WAR)

The shoulder injury seems to have zapped his power, as it was, leaving Conforto as a still useful but defensively weak outfield bat, at the wrong side of 30 no less. Would've been a compelling gamble a few winters ago, now in retrospect it would've worked out merely okay. I guess if the Blue Jays are content with another off-season of half-measures and selling bounce-back hope... well I've already said it haven't I. 


#45. Paul Sewald - RP, Arizona Diamondbacks (0.2 WAR, 16 SV, 39.2 IP, 4.31 ERA)

You could do worse I suppose, he's coming off of a weird neck injury season, and despite his age (34) some relievers just have different aging curves. Speaking of that...


#46. David Robertson - RP, Texas Rangers (1.7 WAR, 72 IP, 3.00 ERA)

Robertson is about to turn 40 and yet is still missing bats and pitching as effectively as ever. As reliable as they come despite never being blessed with radar gun juice, Robertson keeps getting whiffs with his cutter/curveball combo (especially the cutter... seems sharing a bullpen bench with the Great Mariano might've taught him a few things). He's spent the past several years wandering the league and pitching well everywhere... it's one of those things you can count on until you see it finally not happen. Could be a cheap-ish and smart signing.


#47. Justin Turner - DH, Toronto Blue Jays/Seattle Mariners (.737 OPS, 1.5 WAR)

Was notably better in Seattle than Toronto, where a pair of considerable death spiral-like slumps really wrecked his numbers. Still, I think we've seen enough of this experience not to seek repeating it. 


#48. Kyle Hart - SP

A lefty who went off to the KBO with considerable success and is now looking to break back into the major leagues. Wouldn't be the first time, and Rich Hill is certainly a case of a late-career lefty starter finding a run of great effectiveness... but honestly I'd never even heard of this Hart dude until writing this sentence. Lets move on.


#49. Jose Quintana - SP, New York Mets (2.5 WAR. 10-10, 3.75 ERA)

A little respect? I'm 99.9 percent certain that no fan is going to be excited when their team signs this guy to the multi-year contract he has clearly earned, seeing as Quintana is neither young (36 in January) nor does he miss bats (7.1 K/9). Yet throughout his career he's been very good more often than not, doesn't allow home runs and is normally a lock for about 170 innings. Yeah, I wouldn't be excited either... 


#50. Kyle Gibson - SP, St. Louis Cardinals (0.9 WAR, 8-8, 4.24 ERA)

Another career that doesn't get enough respect, but yeah I wouldn't be excited either...

---

There are a bunch of other names floating out there, (*cough* future Dodger *cough*) Roki Sasaki being the most notably tantalizing one. Brief old friend Matthew Boyd is another, lefty reliever A.J. Minter who'd been as excellent in that left lane as they come until injury issues derailed his 2024 season (his injuries are not arm related for the record). Catcher Kyle Higashioka, who famously hit three homers against the Blue Jays in a game (remember Tanner Roark?)... Calgary pitcher Michael Soroka could be a nice reclamation story (and getting him away from the White Sox where he went 0-10 would surely be mutually beneficial) and he's only 27... groundball specialist Andrew Kittredge is a solid bullpen piece when healthy... perpetual 7th inning Yankee Tommy Kahnle? Hope and a prayer Spencer Turnbull can finally last a summer? Max Kepler lottery ticket?

Yeah... most of these are not particularly inspiring. I do hope they do something big, perhaps reckless even... if only to give hope for a happier spring while my beloved spunky but youthful Raptors continue to lose games. Sigh. I do not like November. I do not like it, Sam I Am. I would not, could not... on a train. Lets hope the Blue Jays do something. Have at it, all. 

 
                                               
Window Shopping The 2024 MLB Free Agents | 123 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
James W - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 08:55 AM EST (#453868) #
Jeff Hoffman was traded to Colorado more than nine years ago. It really was "that long ago".
85bluejay - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 11:23 AM EST (#453871) #
The local tv money problems of many team and the fact that Cole had to grovel back to the Yankees for the same deal that he opted out of has me thinking it will be a tough market for most free agents - slow playing the market is the likely approach of most teams and I expect many unsigned players come the new year.
bpoz - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 11:33 AM EST (#453872) #
The #2 FA is a big drop from Soto. If NYY or Boston get him we have a harder time making the playoffs. Hopefully NYM sign him.

All the other FAs don't scare me much.

Regarding the Jays I don't think the pen will be as bad as 2024. I fully expect a few relievers on the 40 man roster will be removed. This should happen maybe tomorrow Nov 19. Then Nov 22nd should provide more options as nontendered relievers come on the market.
John Northey - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 12:12 PM EST (#453873) #
Seeing how weak the market is after Soto you can see why the Jays/Mets/Yankees/Red Sox are chasing him hard. Reports are the Yankees are #1 for raw dollars per year, Mets for overall dollars/years, so the Jays need to beat both. Not likely, but possible.

Adames is interesting, but far from a perfect fit. He'd be nice at 3B for a year, then move to SS so the defense never gets too ugly. Bregman looked good on paper, but seems to have some arm issues which, mixed with his age, makes him a lot less attractive. Kim I've always liked, but his #1 skill is high end defense and he also had some injury issues last year that could affect that. Torres a buy low guy who could be put at 1B/DH and backup 2B/3B maybe (never played 3B in majors but who knows?). Alonso I'd only touch if his price comes waaaaay down. Walker in the same boat imo.

One quickly sees why the Jays might shift to signing a top end starter (shifting Rodriguez to the pen) like Burnes, Snell, or Fried (among others). If the market is slow these guys could be very affordable by January. Lots of pen options, but again wait and see might be the best approach.
Ducey - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 12:33 PM EST (#453874) #
Rosenthal is reporting that Bregman is looking for something like $350 M over 11 years (Machado money).

But Chapman got $151 M over 6 years, that was after he had to wait until March to get a 3 year deal with opt outs.

I'm not sure that I would be okay with the Jays signing Bregman for Chapman money, nevermind anything more. The last few years of a long term deal are likely going to be disappointing.

Maybe the Jays can slow play Bregman and scoop him up in March when Boras is out of options.
ISLAND BOY - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 01:30 PM EST (#453875) #
11 years for Bregman? He'll be 31 in March so that looks crazy to me. I'd think a 6 or 7 year deal would be the max a team would go for.
Glevin - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 03:05 PM EST (#453876) #
I don't think Bregman is going to be very good in 6-7 years but willing to have a couple of bad years at end of contract but 11 years? That's just insane. I can't see anyone giving him close to that.
AWeb - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 03:09 PM EST (#453877) #
Machado has 9 years, ~320 million left, in part because they backloaded the contract. Bregman is comparable, so I guess that's where they are starting? Absolutely bonkers and no chance he gets that length deal (or total $ either). Might as well ask and see if a random team feels the need to make a splash. Any new owners lurking this year?
John Northey - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 03:14 PM EST (#453878) #
Bregman had an elbow injury last season. Read "Bregman is recovering from surgery to remove a bone spur from his right elbow but is expected to be fully recovered by spring training." That automatically puts a big ? beside his name at 3B. He might be fine and productive but there is a big risk factor. No way on earth he gets that $300 mil deal. I suspect he is in for the Chapman treatment - wait, wait, and wait some more until finally taking a deal he'd have never considered at this stage of the winter - a 1-3 year deal with opt-outs. At that price I expect him to return to the Astros and thus lose the QO for his next venture into FA. If the Astros lock in something else and the Jays are still desperate come March he might end up here.
Joe - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 03:48 PM EST (#453879) #
I've gotta imagine that Boras isn't going to let this offseason unfold like the previous. Some of his high-profile clients (at east Jordan Montgomery and Nick Castellanos) dropped him after last season; I don't think he wants to provide further grist for that mill, and he'll therefore stop whatever tactic led to his big 4 clients signing those bizarre contracts late in the offseason.
John Northey - Monday, November 18 2024 @ 05:58 PM EST (#453880) #
Thing is - how did it work out for his clients? 5 got bad deals it was felt...
  • Cody Bellinger: 3/$80 mil, opt out after 1 but sticking with Cubs after a 108 OPS+
  • Blake Snell: 2/$62 mil, opted out after 1/$32 mil, we'll see what happens but is expected to do well.
  • Jordan Montgomery: 2/$47 mil, 67 ERA+ didn't opt out
  • Matt Chapman: 3/$54 opted out after 1/$20 ($2 mil buyout), signed 6/$151 mil - I'd say that worked well for him
  • J.D. Martinez: 1/$12 mil - now debating retirement after a 106 OPS+ season.
I suspect most had a very inflated view of their worth. Bellinger saw he wasn't as valuable as he thought but has a year to prove otherwise before hitting the market again. Chapman clearly did very well for himself (net $171 mil over 7 years it worked out to). Montgomery the biggest loser I'd say (sucked hard and if he doesn't improve could be released in '25 at some point). The smart move for any free agent is to pick where they want to play, and then decide how much they think they are worth and pick a 'gotta have a deal' date if that amount isn't reached with a 'bare minimum' deal (ie: a 1 + player option contract like most of these guys signed).

I suspect many will be getting reality checks this winter. Teoscar got one last winter when he demanded 3 years and had to settle for 1, but came back hard and might get that 3 year one this year. Might, because there are a lot of guys in his category of 'good hitter, corner OF/DH with poor defense' - Teoscar, Santander, O'Neill, Profar, Pederson, plus 1B/DH's Santana, Walker, Alonso. Any of those guys could help the Jays, all are expecting 3/$60+ I figure, but most won't get close to that with so many teams revenue down due to TV deals stateside going flat with Diamond Sports Group bankruptcy hitting almost half the league. Mix in national rights stateside coming up for bids after 2028 and teams will be nervous about 4+ year deals I suspect. The Jays are fairly safe with Rogers owning both the Jays and Sportsnet (and the dome) but others aren't so lucky.
scottt - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 06:33 AM EST (#453882) #
The market is not linear. Teams with money to spend will haggle over the top players.
It doesn't really matter if someone is similar to someone else who was leading the market at some point.
If they are not the top options now, they are not worth the same premium.  

The players and their agents want Soto and Othani to raise the floor but when teams spend at that level it reduces the demand.
The players' answer is to wait until they get what they want.
Gerry - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 09:26 AM EST (#453883) #
Today is the day to set your rosters for the rule 5 draft, so expect some announcement from the Jays, probably at the last minute as usual.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 09:49 AM EST (#453884) #
Bregman on a 6-7 year deal would be a massive risk, so anything beyond that (especially 11 years) is insanity. Hopefully the Jays stay out of that market. I suspect if he’s still available in February and has to take a pillow contract it would be with the Astros.

Looking forward to Soto making a decision so the Jays can move on. They are justified in holding off until Soto makes his mind up, in the very unlikely event that Cohen is outbid, but the sooner that’s resolved, the sooner we start seeing some action.
bpoz - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 11:16 AM EST (#453885) #
You are correct Gerry in that the Jays don't seem inclined to release any information unless they have to.

We have some key pitchers that were put on the 60 day IL. I cannot find out the exact date or injury type or what kind of surgery was performed if done. Therefore I cannot tell the date of recovery and expected return.

Manoah surgery done between May 31 and Aug 19. IMO 13-14 months before pitching for the Jays.

Romano May 31 -July 27 when surgery was done.

Ricky T by Jul 29.

C Dallas July 27 to Aug 24. April 9-30.

L Maroudis April 23 to may 16.
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 11:54 AM EST (#453886) #
With roster activity likely to start, I'm once again sharing the link to my Jays spreadsheet, which includes Rule 5 data eligibility, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sBLsqrXhFNMw7mZKmXFgnuyZofbzZcEumECa9Szmrns/edit?gid=0#gid=0
John Northey - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 03:56 PM EST (#453887) #
Checking the Jays site I see 22 pitchers, 3 catchers, 8 infielders, 7 outfielders. Weakest of each is probably Brett de Geus (P), Nick Raposo (C), Addison Barger (IF), Steward Berroa (OF). IE: Lots of pitchers on the bubble (Pop likely to be non-tendered), plus Raposo, but the IF/OF I can't see the Jays cutting anyone at this point (Berroa the only one I see as cuttable).
bpoz - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 06:45 PM EST (#453888) #
The Nov 19 deadline has passed and the Jays did nothing. I am quite surprised.
Glevin - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 06:45 PM EST (#453889) #
Jays didn't add anyone so no Estrada which is a bit of a surprise considering they have a while bunch of nothing pitchers currently on 40-man. Non-tender deadline is Friday so I think they'll probably clear out some room with at least a couple of cuts.
Ducey - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 07:04 PM EST (#453890) #
I admittedly dont know much about him, but I am not sure what Brett de Geus brings to the party. And Tommy Nance is a 33 yr old "meh" reliever who has been all over the place.

Thats 2 spots.

Easton Lucas is equally unexciting, although he may have figured something out in BUF at the end of the year (1.37 ERA 19.2IP 8 H 5BB 21K)

I guess its better to risk a player to the Rule 5 (and the restriction requiring the other team to hang onto him all year) rather than having him to DFA him when they sign some bigshot.
Glevin - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 07:19 PM EST (#453891) #
Yeah, the end of the 40-man guys will go when free agents are signed, trades are made. This isn't really about them and more about just not thinking any of the prospects are worth protecting.
christaylor - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 08:00 PM EST (#453892) #
The Leafs are off, and I'm mere steps from Fenway, waiting for Modest Mouse to play, which makes me think.

If Vlad and Soto pass on offers, would Torres and Snell on relatively good value contracts make folks here feel good vibes come March?

I want a Soto & Vlad dual lock-up (like most around here, I suspect), but I think a value upside play seems more likely. If the value doesn't work, tear it down come July (or early June), especially if Vlad and Bo are in peak form. If the Torres and Snell contracts are of decent value and they are both healthy, they could be moved too. All four should net at least a few helpful rebuild pieces, which the FO did well with last year.

Of course it takes two to tango, but if Snell/Torres on short-term with a heavy first-year guarantee and cheap team option, it is a good off-season. It's also decent risk management for a "desperate" FO that will likely only get cosmetic changes, even if 2025 is a bust.

2026 is probably going to bring the challenge system, so move on from Kirk too.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 08:39 PM EST (#453893) #
"If Vlad and Soto pass on offers, would Torres and Snell on relatively good value contracts make folks here feel good vibes come March?"

Yes if you switch Torres with a LHH who can handle top 4 spot in the line up or maybe if it must be a righty then Kim.
christaylor - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 08:45 PM EST (#453894) #
Who is that LHH? Honestly curious...
dalimon5 - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 08:55 PM EST (#453895) #
Santander or Pederson or trade for one like NYY did with Jazz Chisholm. This team needs a LHH that does not require platooning.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 08:57 PM EST (#453896) #
Okay okay...Pederson is a platoon hitter but he has serious power. I'd prefer Snell, Pederson and O'Neil over Torres.
John Northey - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 09:04 PM EST (#453897) #
Top LH hitters this winter in free agency: Soto, Pederson
Switch hitters: Profar, Santander, Santana

After Soto it sure does drop doesn't it?

My gut still says no Soto (as much as I want it to happen). Profar might be up this management teams alley - expected 3/$45 (not long, not expensive) lifetime 99 wRC+/139 last year (projected 117 in '25). K% of 16.1% lifetime, but horrid defense (-8 DRS in LF) which could be hidden a bit by Varsho. O'Neill, despite being RH, is tempting too - projected 3/$51. Pederson is 2/$28 (even better deal, but older and even worse defense). Right now I expect the hard push on Soto and Adames with tire kicks at Teoscar and Santander but nothing until January unless Soto or Adames signs. Eithe signing would lead to a series of other events (hopefully Vlad signing, but if not then a big Vlad trade would be on the table). Teoscar could could be an attempt to both improve offense and make Vlad happy enough to sign.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, November 19 2024 @ 09:07 PM EST (#453898) #
A few names to keep an eye on via trade:

Nolan Gorman
Luis Arraez
Josh Naylor
Nathaniel Lowe

pooks137 - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 02:01 AM EST (#453899) #
I guess I unexpectedly had my "old man yells at cloud" demands answered when no Rule 5 prospects were protected.

It's less about not having 40-man space, as there's plenty, but more a decision not to gum up backend 40-man spaces for the next 3 years with guys you aren't sure are ready to contribute soon if ever.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 10:38 AM EST (#453900) #
Wasn't the story last year that Pederson wanted to stay on the west coast? You might need to add a pretty premium to get him to move this far northeast.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 01:04 PM EST (#453901) #
That was the story, but after rolling the dice on Justin Turner and seeing the results it's clearer now that power is needed...maybe they pay more for it. Maybe they don't want the "low hanging fruit." Who knows. This is why we get frustrated by BS speak from Atkins. Is he trying to downplay the obvious need for power? Does he really believe it is not necessary?

Rhetorical questions.
JB21 - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 01:10 PM EST (#453902) #
I can't tell if the Barves spelling was on purpose, as it was done twice, and has been a fun message board inside joke for BARVES fans for years.
scottt - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 01:49 PM EST (#453903) #
Platooning is great. The bench is wasted if there is no platoon.
They could really use a lefty masher.
They need a top left bat because otherwise the left bats are clumped together at the bottom of the lineup and are easily neutralized.
Ducey - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 02:28 PM EST (#453904) #
Isnt Horwitz a "masher"?

He hit 285/380/484 vs RHP with 12 hr in just 300 PA.

scottt - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 03:02 PM EST (#453905) #
Horwitz is righty masher. .864 OPS vs RHP but only .522 against LHP.
The Jays seems to always be able to load a lineup with 9 right bats but none that can really take advantage of the match-up.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 04:01 PM EST (#453906) #
I'm not counting on Horwitz to maintain those numbers post adjustments.
John Northey - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 04:15 PM EST (#453907) #
O'Neill might make a ton of sense if mixed with all the LH bats we now seem to have in Horwitz, Barger, Loperfido, and Wagner. O'Neill had a 215 wRC+ vs LHP last year, 152 lifetime, but just a 104 lifetime vs RHP and 91 last year (ugh).

I suspect O'Neill will be a FA for a bit this winter as a guy who smashes LHP isn't worth that much to most teams (certainly not $15 mil per year), so with a bit of patience they might be able to get him on a 2 year $20 mil total deal, of course $15 mil per isn't going to break the bank either. On the negative side he has sucked vs the AL East lifetime (tOPS+ is vs his own base of 100: Yankees: 72 tOPS+, Red Sox 245 in 13 PA, Tampa 21, Baltimore 90, Jays 83).

Hrm... maybe not as good as I thought after digging in a bit there. Joc Pederson is a LH version - vs RHP he has a 128 wRC+ lifetime, 154 last year. vs LHP 76 lifetime, 124 last year (462 BABIP might explain that). He could be mix/matched with Schneider, Clement, or Jimenez depending on situation. Schneider has hit 207/302/433 so far vs LHP, 212/315/387 vs RHP so not much of a split. Clement has a higher OPS vs RHP (663) than LHP(608) but these things tend to go back to normal over time. Still, worth a thought at least.
John Northey - Wednesday, November 20 2024 @ 11:52 PM EST (#453908) #
Funny, a day ago the reports were the Jays might be out of it for Soto, now they are listed as ahead of the Yankees after a terrible presentation by Steinbrenner - his PowerPoint wouldn't work so he winged it and looked bad according to reports. Jon Heyman has the Mets #1, Jays #2. Oh geez, another Ohtani situation to the letter.
Ducey - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 12:03 AM EST (#453909) #
I have some trouble believing that a power point from the team he knows well will be an issue.

All that matters will be the bottom line.
JB21 - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 12:35 AM EST (#453910) #
John, you got got by an internet troll.
bpoz - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 10:14 AM EST (#453911) #
News and rumors:

R Sasaki expected to sign after Jan 15 to be part of the 2025 class. LAD have the most 2024 money available at $ 2.5Mil. For the 2025 bonus pool LAD has the least available at $ 5.1 mil compared to the top pool of $7.5 mil.

I believe the rules are "Use it or lose it". So trades of pool money can be used.

I suppose LAD can bulk up their 2024 money and try for a $5mil bonus.

This speculative thinking is very interesting to me. I don't know if it is true that the 2024 signing period ends Dec 15 or not.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 10:14 AM EST (#453912) #
Yes John... the guy who looks 25 doesn't have three Pulitzers and he also doesn't write for the "National Inquirer", which is a publication that doesn't exist.

No hate man, but you really need to stick to more trusted sources.
ISLAND BOY - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 11:49 AM EST (#453913) #
Yeah, I stick to trusted ones like The Onion, although lately I can't tell the difference between their satirical headlines and the true ones about Trump's leadership picks. Dr. Oz to head Medicare? Ha,ha, that's a good one, Onion. Oh, wait, ...
Marc Hulet - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 12:28 PM EST (#453914) #
Yes, Dec. 15 is always the deadline.

Here are the 2025 totals, unless teams trade for more:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2025-international-signing-bonus-pools-for-each-mlb-team/
92-93 - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 01:20 PM EST (#453915) #
Meanwhile in Canada, our Health Minister majored in PoliSci and History. The stuff people get wound up about...
hypobole - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 06:25 PM EST (#453916) #
Being even more incompetent than our Federal Liberals isn't a goal any government should be striving for. So yeah, that would cause some to get wound up.
John Northey - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 06:42 PM EST (#453917) #
OK gang - lets cut out the political talk. Not a fan of either Trump or Trudeau, but this isn't the forum for either discussion.

Yeah, I should've been more 'nah, that is dumb' with the PowerPoint thing but I think I was hoping it was real given Steinbrenner's dad was super-arrogant and one would assume his kids would be too (common trait among the very wealthy).

MVP was 100% for Judge #1, Witt #2, with the next 4 all being on all 30 ballots (Soto, Gunner Henderson, and Jose Ramirez) with Vlad coming in 6th and being on 29 of 30 ballots - a writer for Texas (via The Athletic - Levi Weaver) didn't feel Vlad was a top 10 guy this year putting on the 6 everyone did plus Skubal, Duran, Rooker, Alvarez, and Seager. The Toronto voters were Mike Wilner-Toronto Star, and Ben Nicholson-Smith-Sportsnet. Both had Vlad #6.
Glevin - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 07:00 PM EST (#453918) #
Very curious to see who gets non-tendered tomorrow. I think Romano is likely, Tate also likely because it's $2M. Pop it isn't the salary $1M it's that he's out of options which makes him much less useful. I wouldn't with Swanson but can see it happening. That would save the Jays about $10M more. Hoping they do like a cheaper 2-year thing with Romano though. Makes sense for both sides IMO.
bpoz - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 09:26 PM EST (#453919) #
Good point Glevin. I too am waiting for the nontender deadline.

I cannot figure out the Jays plan for this off season.
Glevin - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 09:58 PM EST (#453920) #
For me, I want them to try to compete without making long-term sacrifices for short-term wins. Don't screw over the next front office and the franchise to get to 79 wins. If you can't sign Vlad, you need to trade him. Holding in to him to compete for one season instead of getting a big package is insane (better to just sign him). Free agency should be the same. That is, don't sign players who will become unmovable the minute you sign them. Contracts like Bregman or Santander to me look likely to age poorly.
SK in NJ - Thursday, November 21 2024 @ 10:19 PM EST (#453921) #
I don't think there's a high probability of success with this approach given the current roster, but the best short-term deals you can get (with more focus on ceiling over floor) is probably the best option for 2025. Without an extension for Vlad, I really don't see the point in signing free agents to 4-6 year deals when team direction could shift drastically in a few months. Obviously if Vlad is extended, then you can start to adjust that thinking.

We talked about Gleyber before, that's one option where they'd be buying low on a potential 3 WAR talent. Bieber is out there. I think Profar is a fascinating free agent who pretty much has two outcomes; either he's replacement level in 2025, or 2024 was a late career breakout and you'd be paying a 2-4 WAR player $12-15M a year on a short-term deal. It's hard to fake exit velocity and hard hit %, and he saw massive increases in both last season. I'm not really a fan of O'Neill since he's a strict platoon bat at this point (90 wRC+ against RHP the last 3 years).

There are options out there, but they won't be the sexiest options, and may not be enough to push the team into Wild Card contention. I don't think a Vlad trade is in the cards, so I hope they can work out an extension before the season.
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 09:54 AM EST (#453922) #
Glevin - good points. No deals over 5 years except for super-star talents like Vlad & Soto. Avoid going over 3 unless you have an exceptional situation (see above). Guys like Santander, Teoscar, O'Neill, etc. are most definitely 3 years or less. Snell I could see going 5 if necessary but no more than that - I hate going over 3 for pitchers as they are always 1 pitch away from the end of their career. Avoid tons of deferred cash too, as that can create other issues going forward. Also ideally avoid qualifying offers for guys not projected to be 3+ WAR guys so as to keep building up talent in the system.
jgadfly - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:09 AM EST (#453923) #
"...I cannot figure out the Jays plan for this off season"... Bpoz ... I think Atkins doesn't know either ...
Some questions I have ... Is Vladdy the last AA guy still on the 40 man roster ? (Sign him, don't trade him)... Why are the Jays & Yankee$ in the same International Signing Pool ? ... I know that the NYY went over the Payroll Tax Threshold, did Atkins go over as well ? ... Did the Jays complete Phase IV of their Reno Plans by updating their Dominican Facilities ?
Regarding Free Agent Signings ... A Reminder pour moi ... my two feet will remain permanently attached to 2nd base and will not budge an inch until the plane door opens and I can see the guy's face
bpoz - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:27 AM EST (#453924) #
Agreed about having policies to control spending and still have a strong 88-92 win team at a reasonable payroll.

However Rogers, Shapiro and Jays fans want to compete every year.

Sometimes that is not possible due to factors like:
1) Key injuries and bad years like Bo.
2) The pen too fell apart unexpectedly.

The team spent too much on the 2023 and 2024 team which had a weak offense. When the pitching and D held the opposition to 2 runs we still lost. The weak O was obvious right out of ST it seemed.
scottt - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:39 AM EST (#453925) #
There is no such thing as spending too much.
Guerrero had a down year in 23. Bichette had a down year in 24. 
Springer dropped from a 132+ OPS+ to 102 and then 92.
That has nothing to with spending.
It's hard to budget for a 10 WAR drop from players already on the roster when they don't even know where the drop will come from.
There are no models for guys in their mid 20s having bad years.

They might need to move away from Springer, but that means spending more, not less.
scottt - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:42 AM EST (#453926) #
The penalties on the international signing pool are for large market teams signing free agents who rejected a QO.
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:49 AM EST (#453927) #
Safe to say Atkins has a plan but he will not tell anyone what it is publicly as that would be a very poor idea indeed.

As to the plans - I figure they are shooting for 88-92 wins (contend but not super-team) as those wins past 93 get very expensive. A team WAR of 0 should result in a 48-114 win team (better than the White Sox but worse than any Jays team ever). So if you get 2 WAR for all 9 positions and 5 starters you are at 28 wins = 76-86 or the 2017 Jays team. To get to 92 you need another 16 wins from somewhere. A guy giving you 5 adds 3 of those (Vlad), 4 adds 2 (healthy Bo), etc. You get the idea. A strong pen can add 2-3 easily. To get to 95+ wins you need some 'wows' in the lineup like Ohtani or Soto, or lots of good luck (1 run games can vary greatly by pure luck and make as big as a 10 game difference).
scottt - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:54 AM EST (#453928) #
There are no big package for Vladdy.Large market teams don't get top prospects for trading expensive soon to be free agent players to small market teams.
This is like the Halladay situation. AA got nothing back.
He then drafted poorly, lucked out on 2 late blooming sluggers but wasted them because they were not willing to spend to build a team around them.
Ducey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 11:55 AM EST (#453929) #
"There are no big package for Vladdy."

Its very clear they are not going to sign Vladdy. So the "big package" has to beat the draft pick they will get in return for the QO.

The Rays do this over and over, with success.

The floor on a Vlad trade would be to get the Kikuchi return plus a top 50 prospect for Vladdy. They likely can do better than that.

Or they can keep up the delusion that they are going to win the World Series this year. Making the playoffs and losing isnt enough of a justification to hang onto Vlad, Bassitt, and Bo only to see them walk for minimal return.

Frankly, the best case scenario I see is that the Jays spend just under the CBT, struggle, and then unload everyone (including Atkins) at the trade deadline.

ISLAND BOY - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 12:15 PM EST (#453930) #
I cannot comprehend why the Jays are so eager to go after Soto yet are dragging their feet on extending their own superstar, a player that is the face of the franchise and had a terrific year last season, and is in his prime.

I get that Soto may be a better player, not by much, but I think we need to face the fact that he's not coming to Toronto because all things being equal, he wants to play on a team that has a chance to go to the World Series the next few years. Maybe will wait until Soto signs elsewhere and then extend Vlad. To let Vlad walk at the end of next season would be an abject failure on his part.
SK in NJ - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 12:27 PM EST (#453931) #
Soto has a career 158 wRC+ and 36.3 WAR through age 25. I don't think it's that unreasonable to see why the FO would covet Soto at a monster deal but have cold feet on Vlad given his history (2 elite seasons in 6 years). With that said, the Jays are at a point now where if they aren't trading Vlad (and they won't), then they have to bite the bullet and give him a monster extension. Trading him at the deadline or losing him for a comp pick would be a disastrous outcome for the organization. When they got nothing in return for the 2015-16 core, at least they had Vlad and Bichette to dream on. They don't have anything close to that now.
uglyone - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 01:11 PM EST (#453932) #
August 31, 2025, will mark Shapiro's 10yr anniversary with the Jays. I believe 2025 is also the final year of the 5yr extension he signed in 2021. Not 100% on that tho.

Is his 10yr anniversary going to be celebrated by the start of another tear down and rebuild?

dalimon5 - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 01:22 PM EST (#453933) #
I'm in the minority that it is Vlad who is not willing to sign right now - not the front office. If he wants to Jays to pay what he might get in the open market right now then what benefit is there for the front office to do that now rather than at the end of the season when he walks? I think he wants to get the highest contract he can on the open market and then come back to Toronto to match it which is very different from this front office not pulling the trigger on an extension now.
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 02:04 PM EST (#453934) #
dalimon5 - I agree that Vlad probably isn't wanting to sign for any discount right now but wants to wait until the Jays do something this winter before locking in for a decade. Plus it wouldn't shock me if the Jays are hesitating due to his up and down career with 2 great years and a few 'meh' years. Another meh and he gets at best a 5 year deal/$150 mil deal. Another 'wow' year and he is 10/$300+ probably. Low incentive to sign him unless a discount is there or everything says 'sign him' thanks to adding a big bat to go with him.

As to interesting - non-tender day. Pop likely gone, same for Tate - both getting AAA offers from the Jays but both would first check around to see if a ML deal is there. Swanson I figure is a lock to get tendered. Romano - now there is the big question. Is he healthy enough or not? If 100% then they'd be fools not to keep him, but if not then they might be foolish to keep him. Guess we'll see by 9 PM EST (iirc that is the deadline).
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 02:11 PM EST (#453935) #
Notable: Austin Hays was non-tendered by the Phillies. He is a RH hitter who hits LHP well. 167 wRC+ vs LHP in '24 120 lifetime, 61 vs RHP in '24 99 lifetime. Generally middle of the road for defense (off year last year) who can play all 3 OF positions (21-23 just 30 innings in CF per year, none in CF last year) but mostly is in LF now. Could be a cheap & cheerful platoon partner for one of the LH bats we've got in LF (Loperfido, Barger, Lukes). A lot cheaper than O'Neill or any of the other FA options.
Gerry - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 04:25 PM EST (#453936) #
Austin Hays and Gavin Sheets are the first two non tenders.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 04:51 PM EST (#453937) #
John, not to pick on your but I think those numbers are way off. I think dalimon’s point is the right one, and is something we should be thinking about: do we want Vlad at ANY number? If Vladms expectation is to be paid $45M a year, or to receive the same contract as Ohtani/Soto, do we still think Shapiro is crazy for not signing him yet?

I want Vlad to be here long term, but if Vlad wants to be 25% of the team’s payroll, I become less comfortable. It wasn’t long ago people were saying the Freeman contract was the appropriate comp. Then it shifted to Devers. The reality is, we don’t have a good understanding of Vladms expectations and we likely won’t until he signs his next contract. I think it’s a mistake to assume stupidity on the part of the front office in not getting something done until we know the details.
SK in NJ - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 05:27 PM EST (#453938) #
I agree that Vlad could also be a hold up in the extension scenario. It takes two to tango. Vlad has no reason to extend without getting the deal he wants, so he has all the leverage here. Ultimately I would think it's a combination of Vlad wanting to test free agency and the Jays being hesitant to go too high due to his volatility as a player so far. It's possible he tests free agency and stays with the Jays anyway, but I'm not sure that's the smartest idea from a team perspective. Might as well trade him now for the best offer you can get, and then try to sign him back after next season if that's the case.

Also, Vlad is getting way more than $300M. That number is probably a non-starter at this point. He is projected to get $30M in 2025 alone. I'd be shocked if the AAV he's looking for is below $35M, and it's likely in the $40M plus range. He has no reason to think otherwise at this point. If Soto gets over $600M, which I'm guessing he will, then Vlad's expectation might start with a 5. It's crazy to think about that given that we had to sit through his 2019-20 and 2022-23 seasons where he looked pedestrian at best given the expectations, but he's going to be paid like one of the best players in the game barring a catastrophic injury next season.
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 05:32 PM EST (#453939) #
Oh the $300 and $150 were just more or less random numbers that came to mind at the time I typed it, realistically I've had him at 10+ for $350 for awhile, and with Soto going through the roof who knows where it will be if he has another great year, but a 120 OPS+ season could knock it back down hard. All depends.
Gerry - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 05:55 PM EST (#453940) #
It looks like the Jays have re-signed Braydon Fisher.
Gerry - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 06:37 PM EST (#453941) #
Ben Nicholson Smith says the Jays will non tender Dillon Tate.
Marc Hulet - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 07:01 PM EST (#453942) #
And Romano is gone per Passan.
Glevin - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 07:06 PM EST (#453943) #
Too bad about Romano but if he wasn't going to be healthy to start the year (or close) just a huge risk for that kind of money. Jays save $10M for letting go of those two which isn't nothing money. Jays now need two backend relievers though.
Glevin - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 07:14 PM EST (#453944) #
Swanson and Pop staying. Swanson would have surprised me to go because he isn't expensive and apart from a few months last year, has been a very good reliever for a few years. Pop doesn't have options renaining but is only making $1M or so so I guess team figures that if he doesn't make team, they can trade him or something. Green and Swanson seem like only solid bets in bullpen right now with Rodriguez likely because they will sign another starter and Little and Pop having shots too but Jays need two backend guys and a few other guys to compete in middle innings.
Marc Hulet - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 07:55 PM EST (#453945) #
The best bullpens in baseball in 2024 were built through milb FAs, minor trades, waiver claims, and internal promotions. I support the "throw a lot of interesting arms at the wall and go with what sticks" approach. I'm just not sold that the Jays are good enough at identifying those talents like the Guardians, Braves, Marlins, Brewers, Twins, etc...
John Northey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 08:11 PM EST (#453946) #
Strange how things go sometimes. 2 of the best closers in Jays history had injury filled final seasons - Ward 2 2/3 IP over 4 games allowing 8 earned runs (ouch), now Romano with 13 2/3 IP over 15 games 10 ER (also ouch). Henke got a full season and WS ring his final year here then had many more good years. Osuna left in disgrace. Koch was traded for Eric Hinske (ROY the next year) and Justin Miller (80 ERA+ over 186 IP here) and that covers all 100 save guys the Jays have ever had. Who gets the next shot at it? Chad Green had 17 saves vs 3 blown so he is the favorite right now, Romano had 8 (1 blown), Garcia 5 (1), Cabrera 2 (3 blown), Pearson 2 (1), Little & Pop 1 each.

So other than Green all guys with 2+ saves last year are now gone. Ouch. Pop is the only guy with 10+ holds still here (Cabrera & Garcia the others).

Guys who finished the season as Jays who now are free agents are... Dillon Tate, Ryan Yarbrough, Jordan Romano, Génesis Cabrera with Daniel Vogelbach listed as a Jay on FA lists due to them being his last team. If Romano's arm is swiss cheese then Yarbrough is the only one I'd really like back, with Tate a nice to have if cheap enough (AAA deal).

This opens up the closer slot which opens up a LOT of relievers who want to close as possibilities. Yates 33-1 last year 87% success lifetime, Jansen (447 saves so he wants to close and get to 500 I'm sure) 27-4 last year 87% conversion. Many others out there too but those 2 are the biggest names, not necessarily the best ones but the ones who caught my eye immediately. Jansen very tempting due to his age and probable goals meaning he will be after that clear access to a closers role and has 20 post season saves with a 2.20 ERA lifetime (including a WS ring in 2020) so while he'd want to be on a playoff team, I suspect a shot at 500 saves is his big goal now thus wanting a 2 year deal with a team that would give him 30+ chances a year.
dalimon5 - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 08:55 PM EST (#453947) #
I am happy to hear that this FO gained 10 million worth of payroll. I'm excited to see what this FO does. Obviously would still prefer someone more accomplished than Atkins but lets see.
dalimon5 - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 09:18 PM EST (#453948) #
Wow Cal Quantrill come on down... I'll take that player as a 4th/5th starter easy.
christaylor - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 09:51 PM EST (#453949) #
They identified Yates but early, which I guess is the same as being wrong.
christaylor - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 09:56 PM EST (#453950) #
Vlad could return to being a very serviceable first baseman like he was in his down years. He'll be cheaper, but in that instance, I don't think the Jays signing him as another team would likely overpay for the name and excitement factor. We're spoiled in watching him; even during his frustrating years, he was good and a joy to watch.
christaylor - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 10:07 PM EST (#453951) #
Sorry to call you out, Ducey; your post perfectly captures what I hate about the Blue Jays offseasons in the last couple of years. Why hope that they struggle? Why bother? It's a possibility, sure, and a fire sale is not unlikely, but it is not the best-case scenario.

If you're a fan, the best-case scenario, without too much hope-ium, is that they win enough to be a WC and put it together in the playoffs to make the WS like AZ in 2023 or even an ALCS. Your best case is rather bleak; however, if that's your jam and you want to see Atkins gone, keep following a team you dislike.
Ducey - Friday, November 22 2024 @ 11:13 PM EST (#453952) #
Sure. The best case is they win the next three World Series.

I just cant see that happening.

Instead I see them having middling results and just falling short of the playoffs and then their core walking for little return. That is the worst case scenario: no championship and no replenishment of the weak farm system.

It's not a failing as a fan to be grumpy about your team's state of affairs.

If they want to make me happy (a top priority no doubt) they can spend $300 M on Vlad, Soto, Freid, and a bullpen. Or go all Ray's and rebuild with top prospects. The apparent plan of having little in the cupboard prospect wise and just keeping the band together until they all have kids, get married, (usually the order of things) and breakup next September means this team is going to wander in the wilderness for 5+ years with no music. That is some kinda poor planning.
Glevin - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 12:31 AM EST (#453953) #
I'm worried about the same thing Ducey and many fans are. I do think they can compete even without signing Soto but there are so many potential issues that I don't trust this front office to deal with. No because they are incompetent but because their interests and the franchise interests in don't think are aligned. They want to compete this year which is fine but not if sets you back years. For example, you simply can't go into the season with Vlad as a free agent. It's trying to win for one year VS restocking the farm system and rebuilding. Sign him or trade him. I hope they will manage to walk the right balance but it's very hard to do and failure would be devastating.
Dr B - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 12:45 AM EST (#453954) #
> And Romano is gone per Passan.

Well he has been non-tendered which means he is free agent. However, I don't think that precludes the jays from re-signing him, so he hasn't actually left the building yet.

Another, non-tender is Tim Mayza whose second half was an awful lot better than the disastrous first half that got him ejected from the Jays.
dalimon5 - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 01:03 AM EST (#453955) #
"Instead I see them having middling results and just falling short of the playoffs and then their core walking for little return. That is the worst case scenario: no championship and no replenishment of the weak farm system."

These viewpoints are based on two extremes of Championship or rebuild - a viewpoint in which the FO can go to either extreme in order to get to the World Series. It leaves out the most popular outcome of teams that go for the World Series (and fail) and teams that go for the full blown rebuild (and fail).

Throwing the towel in and assuming a rebuild will bring different results is unwise in my humble opinion. I want a Porsche 911 or else I want to ride a bike. Not interested if I have to drive anything in between...
John Northey - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 01:09 AM EST (#453956) #
What is the team's 25 and under crew (likely to improve - meaning last year they were in their age 25 or lower season)? Year they become a free agent after in brackets. Rookie status means 6 full seasons left before free agency (under 1 year ML service time)
Just 1 guy who didn't play in the majors last year out of the list, but just 2 who don't have 6 years of control.  Kind of surprised at that to be honest.  Horwitz had his age 26 season already. Problem is Barger & Loperfido both showed flashes of being good but overall sucked badly. Clase looked overmatched at the plate, Jimenez didn't impress with the glove (which his history says he'll need to do). Wagner looked good all around, but wasn't highly rated pre-trade.  And Orelvis of course was caught on PED's.

Pitching...well...yeah. Nick Robertson was the only guy 25 or less to pitch for the Jays in the majors last year. Ick. Trey Yesavage has tons of potential but way too early to know anything about how fast he'll climb (just 20 years old last season). Good ol' Ricky Tiedemann just finished his age 21 season (hard to believe as it feels he has been a prospect forever), Adam Macko reached AAA at 23 (barely 1 start) and has promise.  But pitchers are such a crapshoot - great ones can come out of nowhere while top prospects can collapse in a split second. Juan Guzmán in 1991 was flopping in AAA (4.03 ERA 5.6 BB/9) then came up and dominated (142 ERA+ over 23 starts plus a solid playoff start) before having a solid career that ended at 33 after 1 2/3 IP in a start (blew out his arm) after signing a 2 year $12 mil deal with Tampa Bay back when they sucked.  Nate Pearson is an excellent example of 'super prospect' who flopped. -1.0 bWAR as a Jay over parts of 4 seasons starting at age 23 - I could provide a list of dozens like that, from Sean Reid-Foley to Alex Sanchez (1989 came up for a ML taste and that was all he got, was a top 100 from BA), even Steve Davis who was the first 20 game winner in Jays history (ML plus minors in 1985) but sucked in majors (65 ERA+ over 57 IP over 3 seasons 57 1/3 IP). 

So what does it all mean?  Basically there are prospects at the cusp of the majors who are young enough to become something but I hesitate on prospects who are 24/25 already and not established yet outside of pitchers (TINSTAAPP).  Vlad & Kirk being free agents after each of the next 2 years could put the Jays in a tough situation quickly. These kids make me think of the early 80's when good but not great prospects kept coming up and getting their shots (Geno Petralli, Pete Hernández, Alfredo Griffin, Fred Manrique, Danny Ainge playing the wrong sport, etc.) mixed in with guys who did develop (Jesse Barfield, George Bell, Lloyd Moseby all in the OF in 1981 at age 21, plus 24 year olds Dámaso García, and Willie Upshaw).  Funny how a 28 year old catcher in 1980 who got his first real shot that year would become a key part of the '83-'89 Jays - Ernie Whitt.  So the old 'you never know' rule applies.
scottt - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 09:31 AM EST (#453957) #
The worst case scenario is that they trade everybody for prospects who don't pan out
They could be a non-contender for the next decade and the payroll would be reduced in consequence. Failing a rebuild--like the White Sox--is a lot worse than spending and failing--like the Mets.
Petey Baseball - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 09:36 AM EST (#453958) #
Looking at the sheer number of bullpen arms out there (Kirby Yates, David Robertson, Jose LeClerc, Jose Urena, Andrew Chafin all in just passing on one MLBTradeRumors artice)...there a plenty of others.... I expect that the much ballyhooed bullpen problem the Jays have can be pretty easily fixed. Romano's run during '21 and '22 was superb, but I thought in the last couple of years, teams had learned to lay off the slider better, and he had become rather ordinary.
scottt - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 09:36 AM EST (#453959) #
They cannot restock by trading Vlad. He's a free agent after one year and he's not going to sign if traded. Also, he's not a fit on everything team like Othani or Soto. He's an expensive 1B who can DH but would prefer to play 3rd.

scottt - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 09:43 AM EST (#453960) #
They signed Swanson to 3M before the deadline.That's a bit below his arbitration predicted salary.
I assume that they made an offer to Romano and he declined.
I could see a team signing Romano to a small contract with a team option.
It's harder to see him closing in 25.
Glevin - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 10:16 AM EST (#453961) #
I expect that the much ballyhooed bullpen problem the Jays have can be pretty easily fixed. Romano's run during '21 and '22 was superb, but I thought in the last couple of years, teams had learned to lay off the slider better, and he had become rather ordinary."

The problem is money. Green already making $10.5M. You don't want to spend a ton signing bullpen guys and leaving you with less money elsewhere. Agree re: Romano. Never really was elite for me because he walked too many guys but was a very good closer for a couple of years. Two years ago, he wasn't quite the same and last year he was bad. If he were healthy, absolutely worth the risk but he hasn't been able to throw off a mound yet which doesn't bode well. My guess is some other team signs him because I am sure Jays had discussions already and clearly Romano's side wanted something else.
SK in NJ - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 11:46 AM EST (#453962) #
Green's contract is not talked about enough as a bad decision by the Jays. In hindsight it looks worse, but even at the time it seemed excessive for someone they were not expecting to be the closer and was coming off 27 innings in 2 years due to surgery. Removing his money for the 2025 payroll would be massive, but unfortunately I don't see any team valuing him at 1/10.5. Same with Bassitt at 1/21. They might end up living up to their deals by the end of the season (Green more likely than Bassitt, IMO), but if there was a market for either one or both at the 2023 deadline then the Jays should have done it.

As far as the bullpen, I think it's possible to build it back up, but whether this front office is the one capable of getting those pieces is the question. It clearly has not been their strength in nearly a decade now.
dalimon5 - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 11:56 AM EST (#453963) #
Chris Bassitt is worth every penny. Must look at his durability and consistency to see his entire value. Who is better and more durable on the open market and how much will they get? I don't see anyone more affordable and reliable who will sign for 3 years.

Scottt, Vlad is very much in the same value camp as Ohtani and Soto after his last year. I would argue he is even more valuable in a way since many teams can't afford to sign these players but they can trade for them to make a run. SEA would drop their farm or one of their stud pitchers if they could have Vlad for one season.
bpoz - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 12:15 PM EST (#453964) #
Does anyone know how much our payroll including arb players is at the moment? Do we have $40mil to spend without going over the luxury tax barrier?

We may be able to afford 4 relievers for $20mil. 4 + Green, Swanson, Little and Pop is 8 relievers.

How many more wins would the 2022 and 2023 pen equivalent performance give the 2024 team? We traded for G Cabrera and J Hicks to help in 2023.
Glevin - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 12:36 PM EST (#453965) #
Jays have sacrificed some money for years and I'm fine with that. Bassit and Greene both expensive but done after this year so doesn't really matter. Jays have insane payroll flexibility because only Berrios is signed past next year. Of course, they also don't have any talent which is the downside but it works very well for both rebuild or retool to spend.
scottt - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 03:54 PM EST (#453966) #
Vlad is valuable to the Jays but not to every team.
Othani is also a pitcher. All 30 teams have room for a decent pitcher.
The Dodgers, for example, could put Soto in left field but where would they put Guerrero?
Vlad has absolutely zero value to them.

Teams often trade stars when they have 2 years of control left.
The Marlins traded Stanton, Yelich and Ozuna a few years back.
Stanton was on a back loaded contract and brought back 2 years of Starlin Castro and 2 low prospects.
Yelich had 3 years of control left and brought back 3 prospects who all failed to produce anything.
Ozuna brought back 3 pitchers, Zac Gallen, Sandy Alcantara and Daniel Castano along with a middling prospect.
The Marlins acquired pitching in their rebuild but failed with the position players.
It looks like they might start over again. 

John Northey - Saturday, November 23 2024 @ 11:43 PM EST (#453967) #
Good question on Vlad's value - who would bid $400+ million? Assuming he is a 1B/DH, not a 3B
  1. Giants - weak at 1B and DH and have cash - seem to have more trouble signing guys than the Jays do
  2. Red Sox - very weak at 1B/DH so they should be interested (imagine Vlad with the Green Monster - probably screw up his swing but he'd be insane there)
  3. Yankees - empty at 1B with Rizzo gone (well, empty with him) unless they sign someone like Alonso long term - no way they sign Vlad to DH with Stanton eating that slot up (only a nut puts him in the field and he is signed at least through 2027, option for '28)
  4. Mets - if they don't re-sign Alonso
  5. Phillies - have Harper at 1B so no opening there unless put at DH (can't see anyone spending that much on a pure DH)
  6. Dodgers - 100% out of the running with Ohtani at DH and Freeman at 1B
That is the order of guys I figure would be interested in Vlad at $400+ million. Yeah, others kicked the tires on Ohtani and Soto, but lets be real, the Royals and Rays never will spend that kind of cash.

So, there are teams with holes at 1B/DH who could afford Vlad. He said he'd never go to the Yankees, but I can't recall anything he said against the Red Sox, Giants, or Mets.
Glevin - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 09:47 AM EST (#453968) #
Red Sox are not very weak at 1B. Casas is 24 with a career 125 WRC+. He's fine right now with plenty of upside to be more than that.
Glevin - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 10:32 AM EST (#453969) #
Also, Devers will be moving to first with a couple of years. Will Vlad have suiters? Absolutely, but we have no idea how much he wants/expects. For me, it's simple. Give yourself a deadline. Try your best to extend him. If you can't, trade him. You can't lose him for nothing because of some long-shot attempt to compete for one year.
scottt - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 12:47 PM EST (#453970) #
Giants are reducing payroll.
Red Sox are thinking about moving Devers to 1B.
Vlad has said he's never going to play for the Yankees. Apparently his dad has something against them.
PHillies have both 1B and DH accounted for.

You see the Mets trading anything of value to spend 400M on Vlad?

By comparison, there is a large market for Bichette.

scottt - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 12:56 PM EST (#453971) #
There are going to try to compete this year.
If they trade Vlad--and they would likely get nothing back--they have no real franchise player to bother with anything but signing bounce back guys to use at the deadline until at least 2028.
A lot of people seem to be missing the previous era of an arrogant GM fielding mediocre teams.
There's really no accounting for taste.
bpoz - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 01:20 PM EST (#453972) #
Cin/KC trade J India for B Singer. There is movement.
bpoz - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 02:18 PM EST (#453973) #
In 2024 B Francis (122IP) and Y Rodriguez (107IP) pitched a lot ML & Minors combined. And they pitched well. So in 2025 150IP is possible.
Marlow - Sunday, November 24 2024 @ 09:33 PM EST (#453974) #
Rico Carty unfortunately has passed away. He was one of my favorite Jays in the early years.
Gerry - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 08:59 AM EST (#453975) #
Looks like Kikuchi is going to the Angels on a three year deal, no dollars yet.
Gerry - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 09:03 AM EST (#453976) #
The dollars are $63M. MLBTR had forecast $60M and three years so they were pretty close.
Chuck - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 10:20 AM EST (#453977) #
Rico Carty unfortunately has passed away.

The Beeg Mon. Had played for the Toronto Maple Leafs (baseball version) as a young man before landing in the majors and ending his career with the Jays.

scottt - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 10:33 AM EST (#453978) #
USA Today has a very interesting article on the post season.

They say that Boston is making a lot of noise about spending, which explains why they're one of the teams who have talked to Soto,
Apparently they are going after a top pitcher (one of Burnes, Fried or Snell).
They also would like to sign Adames to play at 3B--which is why we are hearing about moving Devers.
Fallback options are Bregman and Arenado.
They would love to free some payroll by dumping Yoshida but they have found no takers.

About Roki Sasaki, lots of interest all around.
Dodgers are in front line again but Yu Darvish was a mentor to Sasaki so he could opt to become the ace in San Diego.
San Diego is desperate to win now as their backloaded contracts on Machado, Tatis and Bogaerts are about to hit them hard.

The Cubs are trying hard to get rid of Bellinger. No other GMs wants to touch that contract that pays him more than Bryce Harper over the next two years.

The Phillies feel like they need to shake something.
They have been shopping Castellanos but found no taker so they are making Alec Bohm available.
They have talked to the White Sox about swapping him for Garret Crochet but the Sox are weary about Bohm's number in the second half of last year.

They see Luis Robert Jr as large wild card.
He's 27 and talented and making 15M this year.
There is upside even though he's never been healthy, mostly because of 2 team options.
However, the Sox are asking for top prospects back.

Finally, they say Toronto is the team most likely to overpay.
Either on Soto or on somebody else after they miss on Soto, mostly because Vlad and Bo are free agents at the end of the year.
They say Toronto is interested in Burnes and Fried and "badly covet" Santander.
dalimon5 - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 10:51 AM EST (#453979) #
Thanks for sharing Scottt. Going by these notes as well as the consensus rumours out there it seems like The TBJ will go after Santander and Fried with overpays unless some how the Mets and Yankees allow Soto to et paid more in Toronto.

MLBTR predicts 26m/year for Fried and 20m/year for Santander which would be about 46m added to the payroll if they didn't overpay...
John Northey - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 10:55 AM EST (#453980) #
Bellinger in 130 games had a 2.2 fWAR last year, projected at about the same in 2025 (2.1 or 2.2). Cot's says for Bellinger 25/26 - 25:$27.5M, 26:$25M player option ($5M buyout). Not a lot of value there, but some plus at ages 29/30 he could easily have another 4+ WAR season in him. I see him as a plan C if the Jays fail to sign Soto (A), or one of Santander/Teoscar/Pederson/Profar/O'Neill. Quite a few FA options who'd probably be cheaper over 3 than Bellinger over 2. Plus if Bellinger has a good year he would leave right away as a free agent. Basically he'd be a guy the Cubs would almost have to pay someone to take or would cost next to nothing in prospects (A ball reliever or something) due to having so little excess value. But an option that would fit the team's needs (LH bat with potential power, he did hit 47 dingers in 2019, and 26 in 2023) and has lots of OF/1B experience so if Vlad goes to 3B he can cover 1B if a kid emerges who needs playing time in the OF. Don't see it as likely, but it is an interesting possibility

Yoshida has been bad on defense in LF - wonder if the Green Monster has been a nightmare for him. His 112 wRC+ isn't bad, but with poor defense it isn't enough. He doesn't excite me, but if Boston is pretty much giving him away he'd be another cheap option as $18 mil a year for 3 years (ages 31-33) isn't a killer. I'd try to get Boston to cover half that salary.

There are options out there for LF but outside of Soto none are exciting to me.
Ducey - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 11:05 AM EST (#453981) #
Yoshida is a lefty bat who hit 310/374/458 vs RHP last year.

That would work.
ISLAND BOY - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 11:08 AM EST (#453982) #
" Cin/KC trade J India for B Singer."

Coincidently they were college roommates at Florida.
dalimon5 - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 11:22 AM EST (#453983) #
I'd also be on board with Yoshida. Solid bat without power that can help from the left side. If they Jays can get a Lefty bat like that and another power bat then that will help immensely. If they could make the power bat one from the left side then their cooking.
scottt - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 11:52 AM EST (#453984) #
They already have some left bats with no power in Wagner/Horwitz.
Varsho being the opposite. They really need a high slugging left bat in the top of the lineup.
Should they end up with Santander, they won't need another left bat.
Yoshida is due 55.6M over the next 3 years.
dalimon5 - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 01:08 PM EST (#453985) #
I think you need a Yoshida, Horwitz and Santander to have three LH bats that can contribute and get on base. Having just one or two of them is not good enough. Saying Wagner or Loperfido and to an extent even Horwitz are capable in that role is a fine line between being realistic and wishful thinking.

bpoz - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 01:48 PM EST (#453986) #
I consider Kikuchi and Bassitt to be solid #3s. For Kikuchi IMO he made himself into a #3 based on his 2023 and 2024 results. $21mil/yr. Somehow Stroman is getting paid less. We still need more data. LAA and Toronto are pressured to be competitive IMO so they will pay these prices if they can afford them and stay under the luxury tax threshold.
scottt - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 02:32 PM EST (#453987) #
Yoshida makes close to 20M a year. Horwitz and Wagner make the minimum.
It's OK to pay Santander that much to hit in the middle of the lineup.
They might as well roll with Wagner at the bottom of the lineup and use that money on a starting pitcher.
dalimon5 - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 03:02 PM EST (#453988) #
Scott, Yoshida is an OF and Wagner is an IF. One will not replace the other. Yoshida coming in as a LHH to replace either Springer or Varsho was more what I was thinking.
bpoz - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 04:09 PM EST (#453989) #
IMO LAD, NYM, NYY and Boston based on history will likely spend over the luxury tax threshold by huge margins. That may not bother them much. To accomplish this feat they will sign ridiculous contracts to super star players.

Toronto having Vlad will likely be forced to do a huge deal. SD already has a few huge contracts.

If Snell signs for $30mil/yr 5 years or so then Vlad, Soto, J Rod, J Chourio etc ... will get similar or more money for 10+ years. Salary structures will be disrupted for these teams most likely.
John Northey - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 06:04 PM EST (#453990) #
Kikuchi getting $21 mil per for 3 seems high to me. But hey, good for him. Jays sure did well on him. 3/$36 mil plus Jake Bloss, Joey Loperfido, and Will Wagner, but just 0.8 bWAR 3.6 fWAR - amazing difference isn't it? Can't complain about that. I suspect the Angels will regret this contract in a year or two.

Corbin Burnes (7/$200 mil $28.6/Yr est by MLBTR), and Max Fried (6/$156 mil $26/yr est by MLBTR) are both looking like better deals to me even if the years are more imo.
Petey Baseball - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 07:32 PM EST (#453991) #
The Jays would be wise to jump into the trade/ market early to mitigate risk of the big free agent fish getting away again.

Signing a Joc Pederson to DH or trading for a starting pitcher would in no way hurt their pursuit of Soto, Fried, or Santander. You have to like how aggressive the Angels have been.
John Northey - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 09:21 PM EST (#453992) #
There are pluses and minus to going in early. Sometimes you get the guy you want at a good price by jumping early. Other times you get an overpriced Kendrys Morales.

At this stage I'd say chasing one of the big starters - Fried-Burnes-Snell makes sense, as does chasing Soto (naturally). Keeping your toes in the water on Adames-Torres-Kim-Santander-Hernández-Profar-O'Neill makes sense too. Talking trades with others makes sense - chasing guys like Brent Rooker, Carlos Correa, Byron Buxton, Cody Bellinger, Masataka Yoshida and whoever else might be available who can hit would be a good idea too - most of them would not hit the budget like a free agent would so laying groundwork for a deal is a good idea.

I'd be shocked if the Jays don't have plan A (sign Soto, whatever around that), B (sign a different high end FA), C (multiple 'meh' FA's, maybe a trade or two), D (trades as the core, a few bargain bin FA's late in the winter), etc.
Glevin - Monday, November 25 2024 @ 11:21 PM EST (#453993) #
Apparently most Soto offers are in which I see a positive in that we'll likely get a relatively quick resolution. Think he probably signs by end of winter meetings at latest so teams can move in to other plans.
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