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Well the danger on the rocks is surely past
Still I remain tied to the mast

Home at last.


Dr Ron Taylor passed away this weekend, at the ripe old age of 87, and while my old alma mater has many distinguished graduates, I think Taylor is the only one who played major league baseball. And as I once noted, there are far, far more people capable of performing surgery on your brain than there are who can pitch in a World Series.

Ron Taylor was born right here in Toronto in 1937 and he signed with Cleveland out of high school in 1956. He spent the next seven years moving up through their system as a starting pitcher, while simultaneously pursuing a degree in electrical engineering at the U of T. He got his degree in 1961 and made his MLB debut the following April. It was memorable - he tossed 11 shutout innings against the Red Sox in Fenway. But the Indians couldn't score either and they sent Taylor back out for the twelfth inning. After Yastrzemski's leadoff triple and a couple of intentional walks, Carroll Hardy walked him off with a grand slam. He did get his first MLB win his next time out, but a couple of rough starts saw him banished to the bullpen and then back to AAA. He was traded to the Cardinals that winter, and carved out a role in their bullpen. He was especially good in the 1964 World Series, throwing four hitless innings to preserve a 4-3 victory in the fourth game. 

Taylor was traded to Houston in mid-1965. This didn't work - the Astrodome was one of the greatest pitcher's parks that ever existed but Taylor simply couldn't pitch effectively there. Go figure. He went to the Mets in a straight cash deal in 1967 and promptly became a useful relief pitcher once again. He collected his second World Series ring with another four scoreless appearances in the 1969 post-season, picking up a save against the Braves in the NLCS and another against the Orioles in the series finale. 

Taylor pitched in four World Series games, and in seven innings allowed zero runs and zero hits. Hard to be much better than that. He was briefly an Expo in 1972, but was released before getting into a game, and he finished up with San Diego in 1972. At which point, he decided to go to medical school. The dean of admissions wondered just what the hell he'd been doing since graduating eleven years earlier, and warned that the U of T didn't look favourably upon candidates as old as Taylor (he was 34 by then.) But his academic excellence would get him in the door, he graduated from medical school in 1977,and two years later became the Blue Jays team physician, while operating a general practice in downtown Toronto, and a sports medicine clinic at Mount Sinai. And as the team doctor, he collected another two World Series rings along the way.

A life well lived.

After their surprising run to the 2023 World Series with an 84-78 record, the Diamondbacks improved by five games last year. Their reward for this level of improvement was missing the post-season entirely. They had the highest scoring team in the major leagues last year, and while Citizens Bank is a very fine place to hit (and the Snakes scored a major league leading 457 runs at home), they also scored 429 runs on the road and only the Dodgers could beat that mark, with 439. Their problem was the other team was scoring almost as often - just four teams allowed more runs, and all four of those outfits also lost at least 99 games. So the Diamondbacks went and ponied up for the best starting pitcher they could get their hands on. Seemed like a good idea, and indeed Corbin Burnes was pitching very well for them until his elbow blew up. Now he gets to keep Jordan Montgomery company in the rehab room. So nothing much has changed - the D'Backs still allow more runs than any team in the NL except Miami and Colorado. 

They still score lots of runs, of course. But it's not quite as impressive as what they were doing a year ago. The biggest change has taken place in centre field. Jake McCarthy, their main centre fielder last season, got off to a terrible start and was optioned to Reno in mid-April - he's still there, hitting pretty well, and Alek Thomas isn't exactly blowing away the league in his place. Other changes saw Josh Naylor take over for Christian Walker at first base, and Pavin Smith for Joc Pederson as the main DH, and those moves have gone smoothly enough. And Corbin Carroll is having an excellent bounce back season. But it's not adding up to quite as much in the way actual Runs Scored as a year ago, and the biggest change I can see is a rather large drop off in how they've been hitting with men in scoring position. In 2024, the D'Backs had 1,742 PApps with men in scoring position. They hit .285/.365/.487 and drove in 644 runs, which was quite a bit better than the NL as a whole in those situations (.255/.333/.417). Not this year. At their current pace, the Diamondbacks will have 1,660 PApps with men in scoring position - which is not quite as many as a year ago - and they've hit .248/.325/.426, which is pretty close to the league average. They've cashed 244 of those baserunners, and over a full season that would amount to 564 runs driven in. It's .5 runs per game less than a year ago, which is pretty close to how much their offense has decreased from 2024.


Matchups

Tue 17 June - Pfaadt (8-4, 5.50) vs Bassitt (7-3, 3.70)
Wed 18 June - Rodriguez (2-3, 6.27) vs Lauer (2-1, 2.37)
Thu 19 June - Nelson (3-2, 4.14) vs Gausman (5-5, 4.08)


Arizona at Toronto, June 17-19 | 151 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#461787) #
Swanson has been DFA and Francis has been put on the IL. Schultz and Bruihl called up. Glad to see the Jays showing some urgency this season with the quick hook on Swanson. Let's see how much longer Green has on the team.
pooks137 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#461788) #
The fact that Green is earning 3x what Swanson was in 2025 is going to buy him a lot more rope.

The timing of the Swanson DFA is a little interesting. He had obviously become unplayable with the 15 ERA and grandslam on Sunday.

But DFAing him and replacing him with a literal "Who?" third lefty in Justin Bruihl means that this move wasn't simply about the roster spot. As Bruihl himself will likely similarly be joining Swanson in limbo when Scherzer and Sandlin return.
pooks137 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#461789) #
Bruihl still has 1 option remaining according to FG if he can survive any future 40-man crunches.
92-93 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#461790) #
Not all banks look the same. The DBacks play in Chase Field.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#461791) #
Picky, picky!
Magpie - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#461792) #
I couldn’t remember the name of the Arizona park. I looked it up. Chase Field, it said. I nodded and promptly typed “Citizens Bank”

My brain may be melting.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#461793) #
Swanson seems like great guy but Jays need to win and he was just awful.
pooks137 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#461794) #
I keep seeing fans preface their comments that Swanson is a "great guy but...".

I have no reason to believe Erik isn't a nice guy, but it's strange framing. Is it simply because fans have more sympathy for Swanson's plight because of his son's accident last spring? Does that create a halo effect around him that makes people more hesitant to criticize him as a baseball mercenary?

I see a lot of fans call for Chad Green's head lately too. I never see this bloodlust come along with a waiver about Green's character.

Although Chad is famous for being a Yankee. Maybe that's the difference.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#461795) #
Swanson seems like a great guy because everyone who has dealt with him has liked him. It isn't something complicated.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#461796) #
"Is it simply because fans have more sympathy for Swanson's plight because of his son's accident last spring? Does that create a halo effect around him that makes people more hesitant to criticize him as a baseball mercenary?"

Yes it's because of this. Not because he's a nice guy.
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#461797) #
Apparently the Jays have known about the shoulder impingement for 2-3 weeks and were letting Francis try to pitch through it - which raises all sorts of questions. And it's a big risk on his career - perhaps one that's only taken by a lame duck front office. Source: Arden Zwelling

Shoulder impingements are the pinching of rotator cuff tendons. Rotator cuff tears are almost always death to pitchers' shoulders.
lexomatic - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#461798) #
Letting Francis pitch that long with a known I jury should be fireable. Also there was a pretty big change of effectiveness in April.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#461799) #
The Jays let Santander keep playing despite injuries that impacted his ability to hit for power (the only thing he does well). I guess we shouldn't be too surprised at that Francis news, although maybe that explains why he's been so bad recently. Hopefully it gives some hope for his future success if/when he gets healthy.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#461800) #
No fan of how this front office handles injuries. I understand pushing a top player in the playoffs a bit but both with Santander and Francis, they were ineffective and there were other options (especially with Santander). Is Santander now out for a long time because Jays needlessly pushed him for a couple of weeks? Could very well be. If someone is hurt and will be out for more than a couple of games, just put them on the IL!
mathesond - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#461801) #
"Is it simply because fans have more sympathy for Swanson's plight because of his son's accident last spring? Does that create a halo effect around him that makes people more hesitant to criticize him as a baseball mercenary?"


Can he really be called a mercenary if he's never hit free agency, and was traded here?
uglyone - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#461802) #
letting Francis start last time out (prob last 2 times out) was already dumb and not just useless but counterproductive in every conceivable way - but now we know he had a serious injury it makes it far worse. just horrible decision making.


somewhat made up for by the fact they realize that Swanson does not have any track record to justify keeping him here unless he actually earns it....except that they should have realized the same with Francis a while ago....and Francis actually had options left to make it easier to send him down.
pooks137 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#461803) #
Shoulder impingements are the pinching of rotator cuff tendons. Rotator cuff tears are almost always death to pitchers' shoulders.

I respect your takes Marc, but I wonder if you are confusing rotator cuff vs labral tears.

Rotator cuff tendon tears and impingement syndrome are problematic but very common and certainly more rehabable AFAIK.

The rotator cuff is comprised of four posterior shoulder muscles surrounding the shoulder blade - the supraspinatus, the infraspinatus, the subscapularis and the teres minor.

There’s essentially a design flaw in the shoulder that the tendons from all these muscles located in the upper back involved in moving the shoulder must all travel through a tight bony tunnel beneath the acromion process of the shoulder blade to insert into the upper arm bones.

Unfortunately with overuse, particularly with actions above shoulder level, certain arm positions will create a pinch point in this tunnel that creates inflammation and fraying of the tendons, creating pain, particularly in above the head positions.

This is especially problematic if you make a living hurling baseballs from a 3/4 armslot.

Unless one of the 4 tendons are 100% ruptured though, these types of injuries tend to respond well to rehab and surgery if necessary to make the impinging tunnel wider.

OTOH, shoulder labral tears are more commonly considered to be career killers. Another design flaw of the shoulder is the fact that your entire arm only actually articulates with a coin-shaped plateau on your scapula called the glenoid fossa, that's essentially the size of a toonie compared to the softball of your upper arm bone.

This allows for the near 360 deg range of motion of your shoulder joint, but also makes it inherently unstable. This is one of the reasons it is so much easier to dislocate your shoulder than your hip despite both of them being ball-&-socket joints.

One of the ways your anatomy compensates for this instability is to increase the surface area of the glenoid fossa articulation point on your scapula by surrounding it with a fibrous, cartilaginous ring known as a labrum.

Another pathological problem is the fact that the labral ring around the glenoid fossa contact point is relatively avascular (ie. poor blood supply). So much like other cartilaginous joint parts like the meniscal shock absorbers in your knee, the shoulder labrum don't have much capacity to heal themselves without a good blood supply if they get torn. Surgeries to repair them similarly tend not to be very successful beyond cutting out the frayed parts that get stuck in the joint in certain positions.

Any frayed loose edges of the labrum also tend to be problematic in a joint with such a wide range of motion as the shoulder, particularly in certain overhead positions.

Looking it up, Chris Carpenter had a labral tear as I recalled in 2003 that the Jays deemed at the time (incorrectly) was irreparable.

TL; DR - Bowden's impingement syndrome / rotator cuff tendinitis certainly jeopardizes the rest of his season much like Yimi Garcia but isn't necessarily a career killer.

pooks137 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#461804) #
I'm certainly no fan of letting guys play hurt, particularly nominal regulars.

But I wonder if like Nathan Lukes and Tyler Heineman (and possibly even Alan Roden and his eyeblack left on the Citizens Bank outfield fence), there's some psychology/game theory that the bubble guys don't want to admit that they are hurt fearing they'll miss their chance to become a regular. Or in Lukes/Heineman's case with the concussion IL, have to give up their spots on the roster when they were finally playing well and regularly.

Francis is no spring chicken even if he only has a year of starts in the league.

Despite his awful last 6 weeks, it makes you wonder if he downplayed the severity of his shoulder problems fearing that an IL stint could signify that he might never get another shot in a MLB rotation.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#461805) #
Didn't even mention but another righty, another day for Roden on bench. I think he's started against 2/6 last RHP and they were Wheeler and Ryan.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#461806) #
Yikes. Vlad hurt that baseball.
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#461807) #
Hadn’t watched any baseball for a while. Turned on the game a few minutes ago. The first live pitch I saw was crushed by Vladdy out of the ballpark at 112 MPH. Good to see!
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#461808) #
Bo down to a 51 wRC+ in June entering today's game (and he's 0/3 tonight, including his shallow fly out with the bases loaded in the fourth inning). I hope he isn't regressing to the Bo of last year. He didn't look good at the plate in the PA I saw, especially compared to his teammates who worked the count nicely to load the bases.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#461809) #
Can anyone explain to me why Ernie made no attempt at catching that throw from Barger and dove out of the way instead? I’ve never seen anything like that, and it blew up the inning. I’m at the game and Bassitt was visibly pissed. Bizarre
92-93 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#461810) #
The runner basically took out Clement's legs as the throw tailed into the outfield.

Bassitt should worry about not allowing so many baserunners and hard contact while he looks to have very good stuff.
mathesond - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#461811) #
The radio guys said Bassitt was ticked at himself for not backing up the play in time.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#461812) #
Schreck has apparently been removed from the Buffalo game, and is rumored to be called up.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#461813) #
why did somebody get injured this game?
uglyone - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#461814) #
attaBO !
Gerry - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#461815) #
Clase and Straw both injured but neither might require the IL. Schreck could be a taxi squad callup.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#461816) #
Large Barge sent that!
92-93 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#461817) #
Wow, what a ballgame!!! That one would've really stung.
Nigel - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#461818) #
That feels like a huge win.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#461819) #
Miller had given up one homer this season before that inning.

Fun!
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#461820) #
It's a lot more fun when the Jays are hitting home runs.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#461821) #
I like dingers. Jays should have rocked starter who was very hittable but still pulled it out. Amazing.
Nigel - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#461822) #
Not just dingers, but who hit the dingers. If you want to build a ceiling case for this team, Bichette and Barger playing to their upper quartile projections represent a huge part of that.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#461824) #
Vladdy had a great game also, and is part of the ceiling convo also, IMO
92-93 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#461825) #
And let's not forget Vladdy, who plays the biggest part of it, absolutely ambushing a first pitch fastball for a bomb.

Schreck coming up this quickly would be wild for the kid. He was like the 13th outfielder on the depth chart this winter.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#461826) #
Vladdy mashes when he bats 3rd in the lineup, and I remember reading somewhere that he prefers batting 3rd. I think you keep him there for the rest of the season, especially if Barger continues to rake like this.
Nigel - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#461827) #
Vladdy is of course important but I guess I assume that he has been and will to play closer to his upper quartile projection. I’m really not sure what Bichette and Barger really are (for different reasons).
92-93 - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#461828) #
Only 3 back of the Yankees now. NY comes to town on June 30th for a 4-game (holiday) series to kick off the last homestand before the break. That one should be real fun.
Glevin - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#461829) #
Looks like Jays' top-4 CF options are hurt which is so flukey. Hopefully one of Clase or Straw isn't hurt badly. Next up is probably Roden but Jays are allergic to playing him so Springer in CF?
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#461830) #
If Straw needs DL time wouldnt the move be Loperfido?
uglyone - Tuesday, June 17 2025 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#461831) #
Schreck's been playing CF ahead of Loperfido actually.
hypobole - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 07:08 AM EDT (#461833) #
Sure looked like a sprained ankle for Straw. Guessing he's going on the IL.
ayjackson - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 08:03 AM EDT (#461835) #
Thought Barger was going to go full Jose on the bat flip for a moment.

At the end of April, I was finding it hard to be interested in this gang of vagabonds. I'm completely into them now. And the minors are exciting my as well! When's the draft? I might have to book a day off like the old days.

By the way, if anyone wants a set of mint BA Prospect Handbooks (2006-2014), drop me a line.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#461836) #
I find the choice of Schreck interesting because last night was his first night back after being off for a while with a hit-by-pitch injury. And he doesnt need to be added to the 40-man until after 2026. Maybe this is a bit of a showcase?

I would have just called up Loperfido to avoid 40-man crunches when Scherzer and Burr come back. It'll also put the Jays back up to 11 outfielders on the 40-man, not counting Barger.
Jevant - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#461837) #
Looks like he read this between innings! :)
Jevant - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#461838) #
Watching the highlights again this morning...I always love it when the water/gatorade shower hits the wrong guy. Davis gets about 95% of it in the homeplate celebration and has to stop running after Barger to wipe his eyes. Fun stuff.
scottt - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#461839) #
Schreck might not get added. I think Lukes will be playing CF in Buffalo today and could be back with the Jays tomorrow.
It doesn't hurt anybody to have Schrek up for a day to get him acclimated with the big club. 
At least, they are covered if something happens before the game starts.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#461840) #
has schreck actually been called up?
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#461841) #
this shouldn't be a thing, but maybe it is?

These splits are obviously a bit silly and lacking context, but since 2021 Vlad has a 119 wRC+ when batting second in the order (866 PA) and when batting third it's 155 (2,032 PA). And in none of those years has he produced better numbers in the two-spot than the three.

— Andrew Stoeten (@AndrewStoeten) June 18, 2025
Nigel - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#461842) #
That is a weird stat uo. Whether its a thing or not, I think continuing to run out last night's top three for a while makes sense. Having a LH between Bichette and Vladdy is never a bad thing when the opponent starts thinking about how to use its high leverage RH relievers and Bichette hits so many singles that Barger can potentially take advantage of the hole between 1st and 2nd.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#461843) #
As long as Barger is a 120-130 wRC+ bat, slotting him between Bo and Vlad is fine with me. Vlad apparently prefers batting 3rd, so even if there is a placebo effect benefit from it, then it's worth trying.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#461844) #
When you give a guy 500MM, you should probably just make him as comfortable as possible and bat him wherever he wants to be placed in the order. It's not ideal because I don't think Barger is a #2 hitter with all that swing and miss, but it does make sense to have a lefty up there - perhaps Lukes is a better fit as long as he's hitting.

Vladdy's #2/#3 numbers are like Santander's DH/OF numbers - ignore them at your own peril.

Lukes was scheduled to play a couple of games in Buffalo starting tonight, so it must be tempting to just add him back if both Clase/Straw are out.
Jevant - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#461845) #
Honestly, if he's more comfortable and consistently produces better, there's limited reasons not to. Just put whomever is hitting well in the 2 spot, I guess. Or go back to Springer leading off and bump Bo down a spot while George is feeling youthful.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#461846) #
I think Barger is a pretty good choice in the #2 spot against RHP. He has a .354 career OBP in the minors, so he’s is good at getting on base overall. And obviously he now has a lot of pop in his bat.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#461847) #
Lukes' OBP would be a natural fit at the top of the order, vs righties at least.
scottt - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#461848) #
It's nice for  Barger. He just missed on 2 big assists and ended up with an error instead.
I think Clement wasn't positioned right on that play, He should be catching the ball before it gets into the runner's path.
The runner can always slide into third even if the ball is there and in time. It was like a play at the plate.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#461849) #
Wouldn’t a placebo effect be if Vladdy thought he was hitting third, but he was actually hitting second, and went on to post a 155 wRC+? (Not that this would ever happen in real life.)
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#461850) #
Barger seems like a better bet hitting 2nd than Lukes to me. While Lukes does have the OBP profile, I think I'd rather have the better offensive player who can do damage at the plate, even if it's with a lower OBP. Another thing to consider is that even when everyone is healthy, there's a good chance Clement will take Lukes' spot in the lineup (Barger in RF, Clement at 3B, and Santander/Springer at LF/DH, as opposed to the better lineup that includes Barger at 3B and Lukes in LF). In other words, Barger is a safer bet to be an everyday player over the entire season, so more likelihood for some lineup consistency.
pooks137 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#461851) #
It doesn't hurt anybody to have Schrek up for a day to get him acclimated with the big club

There’s consequences to making short term focused moves like cups of coffee for prospects, such as 40-man roster management.

Adding Shreck for a night to the 40-man early ties up minor league 40-man roster spot in perpetuity and starts burning his option years.

This is how you end up losing the Sam Dyson and Otto Lopez types off the back end of your roster whenever there's a temporary crunch. Not huge losses, but wasteful ones that fans recall and complain in the off chance they break out elsewhere.

The Will Robertson callup for Lukes over Loperfido looked similarly superfluous until Clase and Straw went down last night.

But a big difference is that Robertson is already 27, buried on the depth chart and likely a minor league FA next year.

So while Robertson has had an impressive breakout in 2025, he's likely still viewed as expendable org fodder or trade bait.

uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#461852) #
Bo in the leadoff spot doesn't make total sense based on this year's numbers and last year's numbers but if you trust the projections (.325obp, 115wrc+) then it's still a fair choice from this roster.

Vladdy in the 3-hole is fine even though it's hard to see any other guys that you actually want to hit ahead of him, all else being equal.

But all in all it's fine to slot those two guys 1 and 3, even if it might not be perfectly ideal. And if we do that, then there's actually a bunch of reasonable candidates for the 2-hole - I could make a solid argument for any of Springer, Kirk, Barger, or Lukes there, and I don't think there's a clearcut case for any one of them over the others.

Barger is the most fun choice tho, just for the dreamy upside play, which includes the nicer fit of him being a fulltie LHH in between the two fulltiem RH. He's also the likeliest of the options to fail there, but that's part of the fun maybe.


99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#461853) #
Scott - amen!

To me Clement completely screwed that play up. He was poorly positioned (well in front of the bag and in the baseline) and made no attempt at the ball. The ball didn’t hit the runner, it just skipped by him and he dove out of the way. He failed the little league step one : catch the ball.

uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#461854) #
you're not wrong there SK, and tbh Barger is probably better vs RHP than Lukes is anyways.

as for who Clement takes out of the lineup, i hope the organization is very honest with itself as to what Gimenez is. I assume Santander will earn a starting spot with his bat eventually, but we have to accept the reasonable possibility that Gimenez may not actually be an starting-calibre mlb bat at the moment. Give him lots of rope (and thanks to the injuries it's fine that he's getting that rope now), but i'd hope he has to show something at some point to stay in the lineup when we're closer to full strength.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#461855) #
Vs. RHP, 2025:

Clement .240/.267/.273 163PA 5BB 21K 0HR
Gimenez .232/.315/.375 128PA 11BB 20K 4HR

Gimenez has also looked good since coming back from injury: .258/.361/.387 37PA 4BB 3K
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#461856) #
Burr is starting his rehab again.
Gerry - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#461857) #
Schreck hasn't been called up, as least not yet. The speculation started when Schreck was removed from the Buffalo game mid game yesterday.

There are two reasons why he might not be called up.

One, he was hit by a pitch earlier in the game. He continued in the game for a couple of innings but something could have flared up.

Two, he is not on the 40 man roster. With Lukes a few days away from returning it seems unlikely for the Jays to burn a 40 man spot for a few days coverage in the majors.

But, I could be wrong.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#461858) #
At this point, I hope that they just cut Clement:)
Nigel - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#461859) #
There's an article about Yesavage in the Athletic today. Probably the most interesting tidbit is that the team has set an innings limit for him for this year and he will reach it between 55 and 75 innings from now.
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#461860) #
Bo has never been an ideal leadoff guy because he doesn't take many pitches and he doesn't walk. Last two years though his OBP has been bad. Still, it's not like Jays are filled with great options so he's about as good as anyone. Lukes probably better option IMO and I like Roden potentially there but Jays clearly don't like him much.

Gimenez should be playing 2B against RHP, Clement against LHP. Clement just shouldn't be playing much against RHP but Schneider loves him (so does the scorer last night who gave him a hit on a very clear error) .

Schreck callup doesn't make much sense with Lukes likely coming back soon. 40-man is full of Ofers as is and Schreck would be up for what, a few days?

Magpie - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#461861) #
Bo has never been an ideal leadoff guy

For sure. Bichette is a classic RBI guy. Even this year, when he hasn't been bad but has never really heated up - he's fifth in the league in hits.

Get this man to the plate when the baserunners are already there for him.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#461862) #
Gimenez is still significantly underperforming his xwOBA (.328, which is slightly better than the .326 xwOBA he had in 2022). He should be starting at 2B. The easy thing to do would be to platoon him and Clement, but Clement is going to play everyday even if Schneider has to twist himself and the lineup into a pretzel to make it happen. Either way, I don't think Gimenez's job should be in jeopardy. I think the bat will eventually reach something close to league average, and he's been fine since he's come back.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#461863) #
Clement started off slow (58 wRC+ in April) but has been strong ever since (132 wRC+ in May, 135 wRC+ in June). It’s understandable that the manager wants to keep him in the lineup most days — he’s now second on the team in fWAR with 2.0 behind Kirk’s 2.4 — although it might be good to give him a bit more time off against RHP to optimize lineups and so that he doesn’t wear down.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#461865) #
Over his career, Bichette is hitting .325/.372/.503 with runners on base and a tiny bit better than that in 2025. That's a much better line than with no one on. Unsurprisingly, he's hit better in the combination of the 3/4/5/6 slots in the order than in the leadoff slot. And he doesn't run very well.

The club doesn't really have a natural leadoff hitter. Roden has the profile, but hasn't hit major league pitching yet. They're overloaded with players who fit within the 3-7 slots, but don't have the extreme pop for a short power core. That configuration of talents is not ideal, but makes for a long sequence offence of a certain kind.
soupman - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#461866) #
As far as I can tell jays team physicians orders: pitch through unusual pain in ucl and declining effectiveness (Manoah 2023-2024, Tiedemann 2024, Francis 2025) and impose pseudo-scientific “common sense” on innings limits.

Common sense seems to indicate UCLs are more likely detrained during the offseason and the highest risk period is in the return to work. The Jays should try having pitchers on off season throwing programs. Not innings limits. They should limit the effects of detraining from suddenly stopping all activity for three months and pretending that accrued volume is the issue when quite obviously you can’t hit an innings limit if you can’t pitch in the second half of a season to begin with.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#461867) #
Agreed this is still fundamentally a long sequence offence team. They won't do this but I think that you could make a case, based strictly on offensive profile, for the following:

Lukes/Roden
Vladdy
Barger
Bo
Santander
Kirk
Varsho
Springer
Gimenez



greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#461868) #
I wonder who the Red Sox wanted from the Blue Jays in exchange for Devers (who would have looked great as the Blue Jays DH).
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#461869) #
Yeah 92-93 the L/R splits do deserve more scrutiny.



3yr Stats

vRHP

1B Guerrero 1360pa, 137wrc+
LF Lukes 235pa, 125wrc+
RF Santander 1130pa, 117wrc+
SS Bichette 1025pa, 109wrc+
DH Springer 1203pa, 108wrc+
3B Barger 336pa, 106wrc+
C Alejandro 754pa, 97wrc+
2B Gimenez 1008pa, 93wrc+
CF Varsho 954pa, 90wrc+

UT Jimenez 149pa, 87wrc+
OF Schneider 415pa, 99wrc+
IF Clement 490pa, 90wrc+
C Heineman 91pa, 90wrc+

OF Clase 104pa, 94wrc+
OF Straw 445pa, 68wrc+
IF Wagner 126pa, 96wrc+
C Bethancourt 354pa, 67wrc+


vLHP

1B Guerrero 332pa, 151wrc+
3B Clement 254pa, 126wrc+
RF Santander 400pa, 113wrc+
C Alejandro 288pa, 108wrc+
LF Schneider 227pa, 106wrc+
CF Varsho 240pa, 103wrc+
DH Springer 356pa, 93wrc+
SS Bichette 238pa, 91wrc+
2B Gimenez 421pa, 76wrc+

UT Barger 66pa, 45wrc+
OF Lukes 30pa, 48wrc+
IF Jimenez 61pa, 138wrc+
C Heineman 38pa, 273wrc+

OF Clase 49pa, 31wrc+
OF Straw 208pa, 75wrc+
IF Wagner 28pa, 79wrc+
C Bethancourt 125pa, 80wrc+




2yr Stats

vRHP

1B Guerrero 802pa, 152wrc+
LF Lukes 209pa, 130wrc+
RF Santander 644pa, 117wrc+
DH Springer 664pa, 111wrc+
3B Barger 336pa, 106wrc+
C Alejandro 460pa, 101wrc+
SS Bichette 530pa, 100wrc+
CF Varsho 490pa, 100wrc+
2B Gimenez 589pa, 92wrc+

UT Jimenez 149pam 87wrc+
OF Straw 73pa, 59wrc+
IF Clement 470pa, 86wrc+
C Heineman 51pa, 107wrc+

UT Schneider 328pa, 90wrc+
OF Clase 104pa, 94wrc+
IF Wagner 126pa, 96wrc+
C Bethancourt 96pa, 54wrc+


vLHP

1B Guerrero 208pa, 169wrc+
SS Jimenez 61pa, 138wrc+
3B Clement 222pa, 127wrc+
C Alejandro 160pa, 109wrc+
RF Santander 230pa, 107wrc+
CF Varsho 123pa, 104wrc+
LF Straw 62pa, 100wrc+
DH Springer 212pa, 89wrc+
2B Gimenez 224pa, 55wrc+

UT Barger 66pa, 45wrc+
OF Lukes 25pa, 62wrc+
IF Bichette 132pa, 45wrc+
C Heineman 31pa, 259wrc+

UT Schneider 173pa, 62wrc+
OF Clase 49pa, 31wrc+
IF Wagner 28pa, 79wrc+
C Bethancourt 51pa, 88wrc+




This year:

vRHP

CF Varsho 81pa, 147wrc+
3B Barger 148pa, 138wrc+
DH Springer 195pa, 136wrc+
1B Guerrero 244pa, 122wrc+
LF Lukes 132pa, 121wrc+
SS Bichette 256pa, 115wrc+
C Alejandro 174pa, 114wrc+
2B Gimenez 128pa, 99wrc+
RF Santander 159pa, 71wrc+

UT Schneider 12pa, 4wrc+
OF Straw 70pa, 57wrc+
IF Clement 163pa, 52wrc+
C Heineman 43pa, 125wrc+

UT Wagner 62pa, 42wrc+
OF Clase 66pa, 87wrc+
IF Stefanic 20pa, 56wrc+
C Sanchez 10pa, -55wrc+


vLHP

2B Clement 77pa, 229wrc+
1B Guerrero 69pa, 173wrc+
C Alejandro 60pa, 129wrc+
DH Springer 67pa, 120wrc+
LF Schneider 35pa, 111wrc+
CF Straw 61pa, 103wrc+
3B Barger 29pa, 80wrc+
SS Bichette 70pa, 79wrc+
RF Lukes 11pa, 62wrc+

UT Santander 50pa, 48wrc+
OF Varsho 19pa, -59wrc+
IF Gimenez 52pa, 24wrc+
C Heineman 23pa, 230wrc+

UT Wagner 6pa, 158wrc+
OF Clase 21pa, -12wrc+
IF Stefanic 5pa, -20wrc+
C Sanchez 1pa, 772wrc+


ok so maybe i'm buying that Gimenez deserves to be in the lineup vRHP even with his poor overall line this year. though maybe it's time to legitimately consider him a pure platoon bat - or at least be open to that possibility when we're healthy.

And likely that Santander gets back to deserving playing against both RHP and LHP.


So it could be in the end we're doing the right thing already - 6 full time starters in Guerrero Bichette Kirk Springer Varsho Santander, and then 3 strict platoons with 3B Barger/Clement, 2B Gimenez/Schneider, LF Lukes/Straw.

Schneider and Straw still feel a bit suspect to me, but then again we have guys like Jimenez Wagner Roden Schreck that I really like who may be able to replace them.

Then again Barger might be able to hack it against LHP too, though he hasn't shown that yet. Then again, Bichette's struggles against LHP are more than a small sample thing by now, so maybe he's a guy that might need some platooning.



uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#461870) #
they're not IL'ing either off Clase or Straw.

Clase available today off the bench, Straw will have a couple days off at least.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#461871) #
Blue Jays continue to be allergic to the IL... would it really be that bad to give Straw 10 days to let his ankle fully heal and have Loperfido up for 2-3 days and then activate Lukes?
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#461872) #
Clement

2021: vRHP 90pa, 62wrc+ / vLHP 43pa, 99wrc+
2022: vRHP 96pa, 36wrc+, / vLHP 83pa, 29wrc+
2023: vRHP 20pa, 189wrc+ / vLHP 32pa, 115wrc+
2024: vRHP 307pa, 104wrc+ / vLHP 145pa, 73wrc+
2025: vRHP 163pa, 52wrc+ / vLHP 77pa, 220wrc+

Career: vRHP 676pa, 79wrc+/ vLHP 380pa, 101wrc+
Last 3yrs: vRHP 490pa, 90wrc+ / vLHP 254pa, 126wrc+


still not convinced that Clement should be restricted to just vLHP duty quite yet tbh.


92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#461873) #
Bichette has better career numbers vs. LHP than RHP so it's probably nothing more than a fluke if a shorter time frame is showing something different.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#461875) #
Kinda seems like Bo's "downturn" from his previous norms has been all about vLHP. (And off speed pitches in particular).

So hopefully that's a blip as you say.
pooks137 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#461876) #
I wonder who the Red Sox wanted from the Blue Jays in exchange for Devers (who would have looked great as the Blue Jays DH).

Acquiring Devers would've necessitated unloading one of Springer or Santander in the near future. Unless the Red Sox would've been willing to take Springer and some of his remaining contract in return (doubtful). Or if the injuries to Santander are nagging enough that they don't anticipate him returning this year.

Devers certainly improves the offense, but also would've condemned the team to an everyday outfield of Springer-Varsho-Santander when everyone's healthy. Which is awful defensively in the corners, even with Varsho helping out.

It would've also effectively blocked the entire B-team crop of OFs including Lukes, Clase, Roden, Straw, Robertson, Schneider, Loperfido, Barger, Shreck, etc. Besides whomever got to stick around on the bench as the 4th guy (likely Straw).

Springer would've likely been the one to have to go just based on the remaining term on his contract. You'd imagine the Jays still having to eat most of it just to get him off the roster even with his offensive resurgence given his age and essentially unplayable defense.

You'd also think the front office would have a hard time dumping a popular player like Springer who is getting ever closer to having little MLB usefulness simply because it would make the team better today.

None of this necessarily should've stopped the Jays from acquiring an elite bat if the asking price was right. But it sure would've created lots of chaos for the next 18 months for the OF defense, the OF farm backlog and the 26-man roster.

pooks137 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#461877) #
Barger batting 2nd today despite the Jays facing a LHP in Eduardo Rodriguez.

Kirk at DH. Springer in CF. Heineman catching. Schneider in LF.

The choices in CF were limited with the Jays facing a LH SP.

But playing Springer in CF with a relative FB pitcher in Eric Lauer vs a very potent DBacks #4 offense with lots of power could get ugly quick.
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#461878) #
still not convinced that Clement should be restricted to just vLHP duty quite yet tbh."

I'm not saying he should sit against every RHP and if there's an injury he can play regularly because of his D but he should be sitting against most RHP and there's no way he should be playing everyday against them. Not just because he isn't good against RHP (he isn't) but because it invariably takes abs from someone better or at least someone with some potential.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:20 PM EDT (#461880) #
Eduardo Rodriquez has reverse platoon splits (dramatically) this year (LHH's are crushing him) and (mildly) over his career. Handedness shouldn't have played a role in deciding OF positions tonight.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#461881) #
Robertson has actually fared better vs. LHP in the minors than RHP.

Is there a general consensus as to which splits matter more, the pitcher’s or the hitter’s?
scottt - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#461882) #
Bichette hitting first hasn't impacted his RBI total.
The hick is that he's not on base enough and the tradeoff is that he gets more PA than anybody else.

Guerrero is hitting .281 and Bichette .270. Bichette has more hits because he doesn't walk.
Bichette has 304 AB, 37 more than Guerrero, but only 13 PA more.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#461884) #
The Jays bench consists of 4 outfielders this evening...
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#461885) #

Bichette

Upto 2023: 2328pa, .349babip, 126wrc+
2024 Only: 336pa, .269babip, 71wrc+
2025 Only: 326pa, .299babip, 108wrc+

vs RHP

Upto 2023: 1846pa, .346babip, 121wrc+
2024 Only: 274pa, .291babip, 85wrc+
2025 Only: 256pa, .304babip, 115wrc+

vs LHP

Upto 2023: 482pa, .359babip, 147wrc+
2024 Only: 62pa, .184babip, 7wrc+
2025 Only: 70pa, .283babip, 79wrc+
92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#461886) #
Leading the team in RBI doesn't mean Bo's RBI total hasn't been impacted. He has come up with 168 runners on base, and the MLB average for 326 PAs is 196.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#461887) #
Bo correcting that vLHP split!
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#461888) #
Scherzer dealing in Buffalo so far. Hopefully, he is fine after start and can be back in majors next start. Would make an enormous difference.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#461889) #
Lauer was a very good find by the Blue Jays (even if his ERA is two full runs below his xFIP).

Scherzer is off to a great start in tonight’s game (2 IP, 0 runs, 5 K). It’s also excellent to see Lukes and Wagner back in action and playing well — they are a combined 3/4 with a walk so far.
electric carrot - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#461890) #
I think the intentional walk was a poor choice.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#461891) #
Horrible umpiring on the called strike three to Kirk with the bases loaded and one out B3.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#461892) #
Barger looks very confident and comfortable at the plate right now.
scottt - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#461893) #
I think we'll stick with that top of the lineup for a bit.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#461895) #
Like the way Roden looked that at bat for the first time in a while. Would have liked to see him damage that cnter cut fastball tho. But i'll take the walk.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#461896) #
Great inning here. Schneider might want to take note of what can happen when you don't bunt.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#461897) #
Scherzer threw 75 pitches tonight. if he doesn't feel any after effects, that means he's ready to go 90+ next game aka full strength.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#461898) #
heh yes - no bunts required!
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#461899) #
ok vladdy i guess that 3 hole is home.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#461901) #
Rays go down 8-0 in the 2nd to the O's. Now tied 8-8 in the 5th.

yanks also tied in the 8th, but the Angels have the bases jacked with 1 out.
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#461904) #
Kirk in a bit of slump. Maybe time to give him a day off soon (not as DH, just resting.)
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#461905) #
Fantastic win. Love this top of the lineup. Lauer looking really good and Schneider used the right relievers?
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#461906) #
bruihl's got no velo obviously but his stuff actually looks decent you can see why he's kicked around the league for a while.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#461907) #
Angels took the one run lead and got through the heart of the yanks order in the bottom of the inning. one more inning left.

o's-rays still tied in the 6th.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#461908) #
Starting to feel good about this possible rotation:

Gausman
Berrios
Bassitt
Scherzer
Lauer

With Manoah working his way back and the trade deadline not too far away.

The bullpen is looking pretty solid as well.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#461909) #
yankees lose. we're only 2gms back now.

unfortunately the rays just took the lead so we probably don't pass them tonight.
pooks137 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#461910) #
In old friend news:

- Anthony Gose signed a minor league deal with the DBacks
- Anthony DeScalafini also signed with Arizona this week.
- Richard Lovelady opted out of his minor league deal with the Twins to become a FA after 20 innings in AAA with an ERA under 2.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#461911) #
Hopefully Scherzer doesn't feel any ill effects from tonight's start and can make his next start with the Jays. Maybe Tuesday against the Guardians is possible if all goes well. Would be a huge boost to the rotation.

Bo-Barger-Vlad top 3 looking very good. Vlad looking like June-September 2024 Vlad the rest of the way would make contending for the division a lot more realistic.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#461912) #
The Orioles are really going to blow an 8 run lead? That leaves a mark.

It's hard to do. Last time the Jays managed that was 25 July 2009, also against Tampa Bay. Jose Bautista did hit his 3rd homer of the season, off David Price (of all people!) - he was about six weeks away from turning into Jose Bautista.
Glevin - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#461914) #
Suddenly, all three wildcard teams are from AL East.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, June 18 2025 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#461915) #
I always felt TB would take division with Toronto close behind.
christaylor - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:02 AM EDT (#461917) #
Surprised.
Glevin - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#461920) #
Feels like some things are potentially setting in a bit. Batting order looking roughly set when everyone is healthy with Bo, Barger, Vlad 1-2-3. 4-5-6 should be some version of Kirk, Santander, Springer. Then 7-8-9 can be the Clement, Gimenez, Lukes, Roden, Clase group. If Scherzer is back and Lauer pitching well then rotation also looks set for now. Bullpen looks like it has a lot of options in it and even with Garcia and Sandlin hurt, it's been fine. (we finally have guys that can miss bats!)
hypobole - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#461921) #
Looking at FG stats. Both the Jays .291 BABIP and 8.6 BB% are exactly league average, but their 18.0 K% is best in baseball.

Only the Dodgers 21.6 and Tigers 21.1 are better than the Jays 21.0 LD%. Clement is the star here - his 26.2% is tied with Ian Happ for 4th best of 186 qualified hitters.

Jays are dead last with only 4.7% of their ground balls turning into infield hits. Only the ChiSox (37) have fewer infield hits than the Jays 39.
pooks137 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#461922) #
 If Scherzer is back and Lauer pitching well then rotation also looks set for now.

John Schneider was only partially committed in his answer at the postgame press conference to give Eric Lauer a turn in the rotation every 5 days after his start against Arizona and his amazing first half as swingman.

Schneider unsolicitedly mentioned in his reply that Spencer Turnbull was still completely stretched out even though there does not seem to be a spot for him barring injury or setback given Lauer's play and Scherzer's return.

It makes one wonder if the FO or coaching staff still have made unofficial promises to let Turnbull start. And that his current tandem starter/long man role is only an uneasy holding pattern.

Jays are dead last with only 4.7% of their ground balls turning into infield hits. Only the ChiSox (37) have fewer infield hits than the Jays 39.

One would think this is partially a function of team footspeed (and sometimes effort out of the box).

With watching the games, one would think team infield hit stats must be heavily impacted by official scorer error v. infield hit decisions. The calls at times seem very arbitrary but also tend to favour erring on the side of deference to the fielder.

Speaking of full effort baserunning, there were a couple of times last night where I thought the Jays runners didn't take an extra base when they could have on XBHs. But it was hard to tell because the home broadcast cameras and replays hardly ever show baserunner positions while the ball is rattling around the outfield.

There was Bo's half swing hit with ?Heineman on first that went down the right field line but Bo turned around and stayed at first. Seemed like a potential double, but maybe this was simply due to Bichette's bottom tier footspeed these days.

There was another where Bo didn't score from first on either Vlad or Addison's double with I believe 2 outs. Again, this could've been simply Bo being slow now.

Lastly, there was another time where Barger was on base and didn't advance on a hit as far as expected IIRC, but the camera never showed his position to reveal what happened.

92-93 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#461923) #
I was thinking the same thing about the baserunners multiple times, pooks137. The broadcast is not good at showing that.

After the Jays game I tuned in to watch Framber Valdez pitch on the Athletics broadcast, and let's just say it made me appreciate the more professional nature of the Sportsnet broadcast. The A's game felt like watching a minor league ballgame, which can be folksy and fun too.
BlueJayWay - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#461924) #
"but the camera never showed his position to reveal what happened."

It seems the last thing the broadcast wants to show is what's happening on the bases.
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#461926) #
a little weird Scherzer update today.

soreness in the thumb, but apparently that soreness was "expected".

but scheduled for a side session in Toronto on Saturday, then join the team for the cleveland series.


Rotation as of now:

Jun19: Gausman (5 days rest)
Jun20: Berrios (4)
Jun21: ????
Jun22: Bassitt (4)
Jun23: Offday
Jun24: Scherzer (5) / Lauer (5)
Jun25: Gausman (5)
Jun26: Berrios (5)
Jun27: Bassitt (4)
Jun28: Lauer (9) / Turnbull (X)
Jun29: Scherzer (4)
Jun30: Gausman (4)
Jul01: Berrios (4)
Jul02: Bassitt (4)
Jul03: Lauer (4) / Turnbull (4)
Jul04: Scherzer (4)
Jul05: Gausman (4)
Jul06: Berrios (4)
Jul07: Bassitt (4)
Jul08: Lauer (4) / Turnbull (4)
Jul09: Scherzer (4)
Jul10: Offday
Jul11: Gausman (5)
Jul12: Berrios (5)
Jul13: Bassitt (5)
Jul14: AllStar Break
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#461927) #
I'm always tempted to want things to be "settled" too, but fate has a funny way of never letting it happen.

For me I'm enjoying have a team deep enough that it can keep winning even when the roster and lineup aren't even close to settled.

I'm hopeful that Barger can keep being a fulltime top of the order hitter, but we've been hurt too many times by hot starts to feel too safe there imo. I'll enjoy it as long as it lasts tho.

And I'm praying that Scherzer's return means an actual healthy stint for our rotation, but with their ages i'm always scared that any of them can get hurt at any time.

uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#461928) #
I'm fine with Lauer keeping starting but also don't want us to get locked in on him (like we did with Francis), and I'm also fine with turnbull getting chances. Both have had solid MLB success in the fairly recent past and both still project well enough to compete for #5sp duty.
Glevin - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#461929) #
I would expect Jays to be very low on infield hits. Jays rank 27th overall on HP to 1B time. Man, Bo has changed so much as a player. In 2021, was 75th in spring speed, 94th percentile in baserunning value, and 69th percentile in arm strength. In 2025, he's 23rd percentile sprint speed, 10th percentile baserunning value and 35th percentile arm strength. Just kind of odd declines to happen by 27 YO.
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#461930) #
Looks like Berrios will be starting on saturday on 5 days rest, not on friday, and Bassitt on sunday on 4 days rest before the offday.

So the question mark start is for tommorrow's game, not saturday's.
GabrielSyme - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#461931) #
Jays are dead last with only 4.7% of their ground balls turning into infield hits. Only the ChiSox (37) have fewer infield hits than the Jays 39.

One would think this is partially a function of team footspeed (and sometimes effort out of the box).


Yep. The team average is 27 ft/second, and Ernie Clement is the fastest regular. That said, they aren't an outlier - they are 22nd in the majors, and the median team is only marginally faster - 27.2 or 27.3. As a team, they are extremely cautious taking the extra base, but on the positive side, they haven't been thrown out much.
Mike Green - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#461933) #
Turnbull is "stretched out", I suppose, but... he made 5 starts in the minor leagues in 2025 good for 17.2 innings and a 7.13 ERA. He was effective in the 7 starts he made in 2024 for Philadelphia.
Jonny German - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#461934) #
“Looks like Berrios will be starting on saturday on 5 days rest, not on friday, and Bassitt on sunday on 4 days rest before the offday.

So the question mark start is for tommorrow's game, not saturday's.”

I’m expecting it to be Turnbull for however many pitches he’s built up to. He’ll be on 4 days rest.

After that things line up that they could have Lauer go long behind Scherzer on Tuesday if needed, or potentially a tandem Lauer-Turnbull on Wednesday.
Nigel - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#461935) #
Frankly, Bo just looks to be "rounder around the middle" and not in the same kind of shape that he used to be. That may not be the case, but that is the change in his body shape.
hypobole - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#461936) #
One non-Jays related thing I noticed on FG was from the 2022 Soto trade. 3 of the 5 guys the Nats received have been really good this year - Woods 3.1 WAR, Gore 2.7 WAR and Abrams 2.0 WAR. So why do the Nats suck? Their best position player after Woods and Abrams has 0.5 WAR. Their next "best" pitchers at FG have 1.1 WAR (with a 5.71ERA!!!) and 0.9 (with a 4.59 ERA). 
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#461940) #
Like many jays, Bo had a severe power outage to start the year for some bizarre reason but he's been pretty good since, albeit with some ups and downs.


First 28gms: 128pa, 3.9b%, 14.8k%, .333bip, .283avg, .067iso, 89wrc+
Last 45gms: 203pa, 6.4b%, 16.7k%, .281bip, .270avg, .222iso, 127wrc+
92-93 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#461941) #
They have a fresh Schultz to backup Turnbull tomorrow too, provided they get some length from Gausman.

There are too many 4s in the schedule above. The explicit reason they kept Francis around was to give Gausman-Bassitt-Berrios as much rest as possible.

It's good to see that Clase is healthy enough to get back into CF after being drilled in the knee on Tuesday.
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#461942) #
4 days rest is normal rest tho. And they've all had a number of extra days rest already this year, and 2 more before the break if they follow that schedule there.

Francis was kept around because they needed 5 starters, not to make it a 6 man rotation.
pooks137 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#461944) #
Springer DH. Barger RF. Clement 2B. Roden starts in LF batting 8th.

Clase off the wounded list with a start in CF batting 9th.
92-93 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#461945) #
They didn't need 5 starters though, as you made clear multiple times. What you might have missed was both Schneider and Walker saying how important it was to get "the Big 3" extra days of rest. So we can agree that 4 days rest should be enough, but the team clearly doesn't and is not likely to run with your schedule above. If they pitch Scherzer on 6/26, it would line up Gausman-Scherzer-Berrios-Bassitt for the Yankees.
greenfrog - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#461946) #
Carroll is out of the lineup for AZ. Guess he’s still feeling the aftereffects of getting hit by a pitch in the forearm/wrist area yesterday.
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#461947) #
that schedule has them having 2 starts on 4 days rest and 2 days on 5 days rest. And they've all had multiple 5 days of rest already this year. That's lots of extra days of rest, just like they say they want.

If they intended to move to a full 6 man rotation on the regular, I think they might have said as much, and rostered 6 actual starters at some point. But they haven't done anything like that.

What they did with Francis this last time out was stupid, but all the offdays just happened recently - before that they needed Francis just to maintain a 5 man rotation even with the likes of Lauer/Lucas filling in one of those 5 slots.
92-93 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#461948) #
I never said anything about a six-man rotation, though it would hardly surprise me if the Jays employed one when they play 16 straight days. The following schedule removes two (4)s, one from Berrios and one from Bassitt.

Jun19: Gausman (5)
Jun20: Turnbull (5)
Jun21: Berrios (5)
Jun22: Bassitt (4)
Jun23: Offday
Jun24: Lauer (5)
Jun25: Gausman (5)
Jun26: Scherzer (5)
Jun27: Berrios (5)
Jun28: Bassitt (5)
greenfrog - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#461949) #
In my opinion, gabrielsyme deserves credit (yet again) for an astute observation on this site that he made weeks ago. He envisioned the Blue Jays turning their season around based on indications that they could become a strong offensive team (with adequate pitching).

That was a prescient observation, as illustrated by this recent MLBTR article:

Going 24-13 over their past 37 games is certainly impressive, but it begs the question: which version of the Blue Jays is the real one? Looking at the season as a whole, Toronto is a somewhat middling club. Their team wRC+ of 106 ranks 12th in the majors, which is solid but hardly spectacular. The same can be said of their bullpen, which ranks 11th in ERA and 9th in FIP this year with identical 3.60 figures in both stats. While both of those numbers are more or less in line with what one would expect from a Wild Card contender, the starting pitching is a different story. The Jays’ rotation has been a disaster this year with a 4.61 ERA (26th in the majors) and 4.72 FIP (27th). That bottom-five rotation in the sport has left the Jays with a negative run differential, as they’ve been outscored by their opponents 319-315 even after this recent stretch of strong play.

A closer look at the team’s performance over the past six weeks offers a hint at what’s changed. While the Toronto offense has been only slightly better than average on the season as a whole, Blue Jays hitters have been among the sport’s very best from May 8 onward. In that time, they’ve slashed .270/.339/.443 as a team with a 121 wRC+, second to only the Dodgers in MLB.
uglyone - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#461950) #
SP days of rest so far this year:

Berrios: 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 5 4 5 4 5
Gausman: 6 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 5 5 5
Max'Slot: 3 5 5 5 X 10 5 4 6 5 4 2 5 4 6
Bassitt: 5 4 5 5 4 4 5 5 5 4 4 5 4 6
Francis: 5 5 5 4 5 4 5 5 5 4 6 4 5

the schedule i proposed there up until the break would have them see:

Gausman: 5 5 4 4 5
Berrios: 5 5 4 4 5
Bassitt: 4 4 4 4 5
Scherzer: 5 4 4 4
Lauer/Turnbull: 9 4 4 4


The reason why the last Francis start or two were so annoying was that it was pushing a number of guys to 6 days rest to make work, not just 5.
Gerry - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#461951) #
Roden scratched with knee inflammation. I assume Robertson in.
pooks137 - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#461953) #
Roden scratched with knee inflammation. I assume Robertson in.

Joey Loperfido must be using a voodoo doll down in AAA.

Although RJ Schreck still seems to be ahead of him om the callup pecking order.

greenfrog - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#461954) #
The Blue Jays have a double incentive to win today. Winning would increase their chances of making the postseason (currently around 63%). It would also reduce Arizona’s playoff odds (currently around 28%), thereby making it more likely that Merrill Kelly will be available at the trade deadline.
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#461955) #
You jinxed it, greenfrog!
electric carrot - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#461956) #
didn't the rays win yesterday after being down by 8 runs?
greenfrog - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#461957) #
From the Associated Press:

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles Dodgers organization said Thursday that it asked U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to leave the Dodger Stadium grounds after they arrived at a parking lot near one of the gates.

Dozens of federal agents with their faces covered arrived in SUVs and cargo vans to a lot near the stadium's Gate E entrance. A group of protesters carrying signs against ICE started amassing shortly after, local media reported.


Charming place, the USA at the moment.
Kelekin - Thursday, June 19 2025 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#461958) #
RJ Schreck is also on the IL.
pooks137 - Friday, June 20 2025 @ 01:29 AM EDT (#461959) #
Old friend Trevor Richards signed a deal with the DBacks as well after being demoted by the Royals.

He's the third ex-Jay to join the club in the last week after Anthony Gose and Anthony DeScalafini, who pitched in mop up duty yesterday.
Arizona at Toronto, June 17-19 | 151 comments | Create New Account
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