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I'm beginning to believe that the 2025 Blue Jays will probably be an active participant in the post-season festivities.

There, I said it.

I'm not sure of that, mind you. Certainly not the same way I am sure that The Game will be denouncing team management and all their works every step of the way, from now until the End of Days. Nevertheless, I am beginning to think a post-season berth is this year's most likely outcome. Which caused me to ponder the myriad ways that the game (the one played between the white lines) has changed since the team's first post-season appearance, back in 1985. Forty years ago. Some of us were even there.

I think the most significant change, by far, has to be the number of plate appearances that end with the hitter walking back to his dugout after a third strike.

In 1985, AL starting pitchers averaged 5.1 Ks per 9 innings. And if that's what the average starting pitcher was up to, one can be reasonably confident that roughly half the starters in the league were averaging fewer than that. Which a quick peek at the numbers confirms - of the 66 men who started at least 15 games that season, 30 struck out 5.1 per 9 or better, and 36 were below that league average.

Would you care to guess how many of the 64 AL pitchers who have started 15 games this season are at (or below) 5.1 Ks per 9 innings?

None of them. The low man is Kyle Hendricks of the Angels, who has fanned 5.6 per 9. Hendricks and his teammate Jack Kochanowicz are the only AL starters below 6 Ks per 9. And just one of the 1985 starters, Floyd Bannister of the White Sox, was striking out more hitters than your average AL starter in 2025. Behold! A Data Table!

                         1985                                                           2025        
                                                    
Player    Team    GS    IP    SO   SO/9            Player    Team    GS    IP    SO    SO9
                                                    
Floyd Bannister   CHW    34    210.2   198    8.5            Logan Gilbert    SEA    21    109.2   151  12.4
Bruce Hurst    BOS    31    229.1   189    7.4            Garrett Crochet    BOS    29    185.1   228  11.1
Britt Burns    CHW    34    227    172    6.8            Tarik Skubal    DET    28    180    222  11.1
Roger Clemens    BOS    15    98.1   74    6.8            Jacob Lopez    ATH    17    92.2  113  11.0
Jack Morris    DET    35    257    191    6.7            Jack Flaherty    DET    28    146.2  171  10.5
Frank Tanana    2TM    33    215    159    6.7            Hunter Brown    HOU    28    167.2  190  10.2
Mike Witt    CAL    35    250    180    6.5            Joe Ryan    MIN    27    157    176  10.1
Bert Blyleven    2TM    37    293.2   206    6.3            Will Warren    NYY    29    141    153    9.8
Tim Lollar    2TM    23    150    105    6.3            Jacob deGrom    TEX    27    155.2  169    9.8
Gene Nelson    CHW    18    145.2  101    6.2            Cade Povich    BAL    17    96    103    9.7
Phil Niekro    NYY    33    220    149    6.1            Luis Ortiz    CLE    16    88.2    96    9.7
Bret Saberhagen   KCR    32    235.1   158    6.0            Carlos Rodón    NYY    29    170.1   180    9.5
Mike Boddicker    BAL    32    203.1  135    6.0            Shane Baz    TBR    28    155    164    9.5
Tim Birtsas    OAK    25    141.1    94    6.0            Charlie Morton    2TM    24    135.1   142    9.4
Ken Dixon    BAL    18    162    108    6.0            Yusei Kikuchi    LAA    30    161.2   163    9.1
Bob Ojeda    BOS    22    157.2  102    5.8            Bryan Woo    SEA    28    175.2   178    9.1
Jim Beattie    SEA    15    70.1    45    5.8            Kris Bubic    KCR    20    116.1   116    9.0
Dave Stieb    TOR    36    265    167    5.7            Ryan Pepiot    TBR    29    163    161    8.9
Matt Young    SEA    35    218.1   136    5.6            Jack Leiter    TEX    25    127.2   126    8.9
Mike Moore    SEA    34    247    155    5.6            Nathan Eovaldi    TEX    22    130    129    8.9
Dennis Rasmussen  NYY    16    101.2    63    5.6            George Kirby    SEA    19    104.2   104    8.9

AL RELIEVERS       --  6224    3906    5.6            AL RELIEVERS        --   7850.2  7795    8.9

Joe Cowley    NYY    26    159.2    97    5.5            Chris Bassitt    TOR    29    161    157    8.8
Teddy Higuera    MIL    30    212.1   127    5.4            Eric Lauer    TOR    15    95    93    8.8
Bud Black    KCR    33    205.2   122    5.3            Framber Valdez    HOU    28    176.1  171    8.7
Danny Darwin    MIL    29    217.2   125    5.2            Gavin Williams    CLE    28    150.2   146    8.7
Oil Can Boyd    BOS    35    272.1   154    5.1            Kevin Gausman    TOR    28    168.2   162    8.6
Charlie Hough    TEX    34    250.1   141    5.1            Shane Smith    CHW    25    125.1   118    8.5
Walt Terrell    DET    34    229    130    5.1            Sean Burke    CHW    20    117.2   110    8.4
Tom Seaver    CHW    33    238.2  134    5.1            Max Fried    NYY    29    176    163    8.3
Mark Langston    SEA    24    126.2    72    5.1            Trevor Rogers    BAL    15    95.2    87    8.2

AL STARTERS        2264  13960    7871    5.1            AL STARTERS        2158  11301.1 10333    8.2

Ron Guidry    NYY    33    259    143    5.0            José Soriano    LAA    29    163.2   148    8.1
Ed Whitson    NYY    30    158.2    89    5.0            Luis Castillo    SEA    29    161.1   144    8.0
Mark Gubicza    KCR    28    177.1    99    5.0            Michael Lorenzen    KCR    23    124.1   110    8.0
Doyle Alexander  TOR    36    260.2   142    4.9            Simeon Woods Richardson MIN    19    94.1    84    8.0
Danny Jackson    KCR    32    208    114    4.9            Casey Mize    DET    24    125.2  110    7.9
Frank Wills    SEA    18    123    67    4.9            JP Sears    ATH    22    111    97    7.9
Frank Viola    MIN    36    250.2   135    4.8            Tanner Bibee    CLE    28    161.1   139    7.8
Kirk McCaskill    CAL    29    189.2   102    4.8            Taj Bradley    2TM    24    126.1   109    7.8
Storm Davis    BAL    28    175    93    4.8            Seth Lugo    KCR    26    145.1   125    7.7
Al Nipper    BOS    25    162    85    4.7            José Berríos    TOR    28    154.2   131    7.6
Mike Mason    TEX    30    179    92    4.6            Drew Rasmussen    TBR    28    139.2   117    7.5
Jim Clancy    TOR    23    128.2    66    4.6            Dean Kremer    BAL    27    158.1   132    7.5
Burt Hooton    TEX    20    124    62    4.5            Patrick Corbin    TEX    27    142.1   119    7.5
Mike Smithson    MIN    37    257    127    4.4            Lucas Giolito    BOS    23    130.1   107    7.4
Chris Codiroli    OAK    37    226    111    4.4            Bailey Ober    MIN    24    129.1   105    7.3
Pete Vuckovich    MIL    22    112.2    55    4.4            Slade Cecconi    CLE    20    115.1    94    7.3
Mike Flanagan    BAL    15    86    42    4.4            Jeffrey Springs    ATH    27    157    126    7.2
Don Sutton    2TM    34    226    107    4.3            Jonathan Cannon    CHW    17    98.1    78    7.1
Ray Burris    MIL    28    170.1    81    4.3            Luis Severino    ATH    26    146.1   114    7.0
Moose Haas    MIL    26    161.2    78    4.3            Logan Allen    CLE    26    139.1   109    7.0
Dan Petry    DET    34    238.2  109    4.1            Noah Cameron    KCR    20    113    88    7.0
Charlie Leibrandt KCR    33    237.2  108    4.1            Tyler Anderson    LAA    26    136.1   104    6.9
Ken Schrom    MIN    26    160.2    74    4.1            Brayan Bello    BOS    25    152.2  114    6.7
Bill Swift    SEA    21    120.2    55    4.1            Walker Buehler    BOS    22    112.1    84    6.7
John Butcher    MIN    33    207.2    92    4.0            Logan Evans    SEA    15    78.1    58    6.7
Vern Ruhle    CLE    16    125    54    3.9            Michael Wacha    KCR    28    159    117    6.6
Scott McGregor    BAL    34    204    86    3.8            Adrian Houser    2TM    17    101.2    74    6.6
Neal Heaton    CLE    33    207.2    82    3.6            Davis Martin    CHW    22    127.1    92    6.5
Jimmy Key    TOR    32    212.2    85    3.6            Chris Paddack    2TM    27    142.1    98    6.2
Jim Slaton    CAL    24    148.1    60    3.6            Emerson Hancock    SEA    15    81.1    55    6.1
Don Schulze    CLE    18    94.1  37    3.5            Tomoyuki Sugano    BAL    27    143.2    96    6.0
Dennis Martínez   BAL    31    180    68    3.4            Zack Littell    TBR    22    133.1    89    6.0
Jaime Cocanower   MIL    15    116.1  44    3.4            Jack Kochanowicz    LAA    23    111    72    5.8
Bill Krueger    OAK    23    151.1  56    3.3            Kyle Hendricks    LAA    27    142.1    89    5.6
Ron Romanick    CAL    31    195    64    3.0                                
Tommy John    2TM    17    86.1    25    2.6                                


I think it's slightly spooky that the AL Relievers and Starters end up at the exact same place on two sets of data 40 years apart, but there you go. Both years we have 21 starting pitchers who average more Ks per 9 than the average relief pitcher; we then have another 9 starters who strike out more than the average starter (30 altogether); and then the rest of the league. 

I have long believed that most of this is because of the hitters - the pure contact hitter has more or less disappeared from the game. Almost everybody is trying to hit the ball over the fence, and willing to regard the additional strikeouts as a price worth paying. That's part of the story, but only part - the power hitters behave differently these days as well. Babe Ruth led the league in striking out five times, but he never fanned more than 93 times in a season. Ted Williams tops out at 64 Ks, when he was a 20 year old rookie. And Joe DiMaggio never struck out more than the 39 times he fanned as 21 year old rookie. So I suspect these fellows just might have changed their approach when they got to two strikes.

You know, the way Bo Bichette does. Bichette, after all, is one of the league's top contact hitters. It boggles my mind that this is an accurate description of someone who has never failed to strike out at least 100 times in a full season. But there we are. Of the 66 qualified AL hitters this season, Bichette - on pace to strike out 103 times this year - ranks 11th as least likely to strike out. And three of the guys ahead of him wear the same uniform (Guerrero, Kirk, Clement.)

Well, hitting has always been hard and I don't think it's getting any easier. Every team uses at least four different pitchers in every game, so hitters are constantly faced with a different set of problems to solve half the time they step into the box. I think the real difference made by all these additional strikeouts comes on defense. More strikeouts means fewer outs required by your defenders. Fewer outs required from your defenders means defense is not as important as it used to be. Quod erat demonstrandum. Is there a flaw in my logic?

And that brings us back to Bo Bichette, who we're generally agreed is a below-average defensive shortstop. I admit, I've never worried about that as much as most people. I watched the New York Yankees win lots of games and lots of championships with Derek Jeter playing shortstop, and I don't think shortstop defense has gotten more important since Captain Intangibles roamed the field. Quite the contrary. Still, even the most casual look at Bichette's defensive numbers is discouraging. Toronto shortstops are dead last in assists and total chances handled, though they're well above average in putouts. But we find something similar with Toronto's second basemen and I think there's a general consensus that Andres Gimenez and Ernie Clement are pretty good defensive players. The same thing happens, albeit at a different level - in this case, it's below average in assists and total chances, and very good indeed on putouts. 

I think it's got a lot to do with the pitching. Blue Jays pitchers strike out a lot of batters. This year's group is almost the exact opposite of the 1985 staff, which had one legitimate strikeout pitcher (Stieb), two guys below the league average (Clancy and Alexander) and one guy who was way below the league average (Key.) That's not what this year's crew is like. Only tonight's opposition, the Houston Astros, have struck out more hitters than the 2025 Jays. Jose Berrios is the only starter who fans fewer batters than the average AL starter - and Berrios strikes out more guys than all but one of the entire league's 1985 starters. All the others (including Bieber and Scherzer who haven't made 15 starts) are above the league average. The starters collectively are averaging 8.4 Ks per 9, which is a little above the league average, and  the relievers are way over the league average, at 9.9 Ks per 9. 

And more strikeouts means fewer outs required by your defenders. And fewer outs required from your defenders means defense is not as important as it used to be. They don't need to make as many plays.

There are some minor factors to toss into the mix. The Blue Jays have a flyball staff that strikes out a lot of batters. Of the 15 AL teams, the Blue Jays staff ranks 14th in the number of balls put in play against them, and 14th in the number of ground balls put in play against them. (And in the specific case of the shortstop - the Blue Jays are 13th in the number of opposition Plate Appearances by RH batters, which has an impact on which direction the ground balls go. And just for good measure, 11 AL teams have had more innings thrown by LH pitchers, which will also affect which direction the ground balls go.

Anyway, that's why I don't worry as much about Bo Bichette's defense as most people do. I don't like it a whole lot either- I just don't worry as much. And I think he just might be working behind the pitching staff best suited to his defensive skill set. Such as it is.

I do hate to speculate about post-season roster decisions with three weeks still left to play. It feels so premature, if not positively dangerous. Tempting fate, and all that. But hey... I've crawled way out on that limb already. I actually said things like "probably" and "most likely." In for a penny, in for a pound, I suppose. So a couple of quick points. Unless there's an injury to an infielder, I very much doubt Kiner-Falefa will be on the post-season roster. So I wouldn't worry about it. I'd worry much more about the potential injury that puts him there. I think the only position player complication would come if Anthony Santander suddenly looks tanned, rested and ready to rock. Which still seems unlikely. but it would really complicate matters.

I have long assumed that if and when the time comes to cut back to four starters (I will hedge these bets til the end!), it would be Eric Lauer and Chris Bassitt who head to the pen. Lauer because he's done it before, as recently as earlier this year (and also because it's very hard to trust Brendon Little and quite impossible to trust any of the other LH relievers.) Bassitt simply because Schneider has said that "Chris does weird well" and suddenly pitching out of the bullpen would be pretty weird for someone who's always been a starter. I note that it's generally believed that what a team wants and needs in a post-season bullpen are guys that can get you a strikeout when you want one. If you cast your gaze back up at the right side of that Data Table, you will notice that the two Jays starters who strike out the most hitters are... (drum roll, if you please) ... Chris Bassitt and Eric Lauer.

Late breaking news! Bichette to the IL. Is everyone excited about the improved team defense?

I didn't think so.

Matchups

Tue 12 Sep - Garcia (1-0, 4.50) vs Berrios (9-5, 4.02)
Wed 13 Sep - Alexander (4-1, 3.19) vs Bieber (2-1, 4.15)
Thu 14 Sep - Javier (1-2, 4.43) vs Gausman (9-10, 3.63)
Houston at Toronto, September 12-14 | 241 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#467775) #
wanted to look at the rotation now that we're heading into a long stretch with no offdays and only one offday left.

Sep9 Bieber (5 days rest)
Sep10 Berrios (7)
Sep11 Gausman (5)
Sep12 Bassitt (5)
Sep13 Scherzer (5)
Sep14 Bieber (4)
Sep15 Berrios (4)
Sep16 Gausman (4)
Sep17 Bassitt (4)
Sep18 Scherzer (4)
Sep19 Bieber (4)
Sep20 Berrios (4)
Sep21 Gausman (4)
Sep22 Off
Sep23 Bassitt (5)
Sep24 Scherzer (5)
Sep25 Bieber (5)
Sep26 Berrios (5)
Sep27 Gausman (5)
Sep28 Bassitt (4)


Sure doesn't seem like they're overly concerned about keeping Berrios on track. Another overlong rest for him this time through. Might indicate that he's already on the outside looking in on the playoffs rotation.

They're finally putting Bieber on somewhat normal rest today after 5 game break, but after babying him so far i kinda doubt they want him to go on 4 days rest twice in a row after that. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lauer start on the 14th.

Sep9 Bieber (5 days rest)
Sep10 Berrios (7)
Sep11 Gausman (5)
Sep12 Bassitt (5)
Sep13 Scherzer (5)
Sep14 Lauer (?)
Sep15 Bieber (5)
Sep16 Berrios (5)
Sep17 Gausman (5)
Sep18 Bassitt (5)
Sep19 Scherzer (5)
Sep20 Bieber (4)
Sep21 Berrios (4)
Sep22 Off
Sep23 Gausman (5)
Sep24 Bassitt (5)
Sep25 Scherzer (5)
Sep26 Bieber (5)
Sep27 Berrios (5)
Sep28 Gausman (4)

Though they'd try to avoid Gausman pitching that last game if possible.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#467776) #
Excellent piece Magpie - thank you. So many interesting nuggets in that.

The conclusion on Bichette's defence and its declining importance (particularly on this year's Jays team) is instructive with how the team should now deal with his injury. I say what I am about to say as someone who enjoys watching good defence more that just about any aspect of watching baseball, but I think that they should punt, to some extent, on their infield defence for the next 10 days. They should think about getting Barger back to playing some at 3B and Schneider back to some time at 2B. Mix and match Gimenez, IKF and Clement as appropriate. Think about trying to replace some of the offence that is lost with Bichette's absence.
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#467777) #
Don't have to think about Bichette's defense for a while now. Always a silver lining...
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#467779) #
The Bo injury is frustrating because it was unnecessary. Sending him to score on the Lukes base hit was a low-percentage, high-risk move in the circumstances.

At this point the priority should be to get Bo healthy for the postseason, even if it means the Blue Jays end up with a WC berth again because of the depleted lineup in September.
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#467780) #
The Bo injury is frustrating because it was unnecessary. Sending him to score on the Lukes base hit was a low-percentage, high-risk move in the circumstances."

No it wasn't. It was the right call in a very important and close game and forced Bellinger to make a great throw. IKF and Gimenez were coming up so even if you think it's 40% chance to score, you take those odds.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#467781) #
Yeah agreed. Also it's convenient to criticize the play after learning that the player is injured but that shouldn't impact the decision that was made in real time. If you start holding runners (27 year old prime player) because you're afraid of an injury then you've already given up.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#467782) #
If the Jays get the first round bye then you'd want Gausman to start that final game, but be limited to something like 3 IP or 50 pitches. Just to keep him sharp.

As to SS it'll be interesting to see how things are handled. Seems Clement will be everyday at SS, Barger at 3B with IKF mixed in vs tough LHP, leaving LF as a Schneider/Loperfido platoon, RF as a Lukes/Straw platoon.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#467783) #
The injury was just one of those things. 99 times out of a 100 there is no injury on that play. Bo did a weird slide, perfect throw home, there were many ways that could've been a 'ho hum' play, but bad luck happens. Holding a runner there would've been pure stupidity. Bo from 2 years ago scores easily, but he has slowed a lot.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#467784) #
I would think that Isiah Kiner-Falefa looks a bit more useful all of a sudden. It's a little like when Guerrero went down and couldn't play in the field for ten days. By some weird coincidence they had just acquired someone able to fill in.

Did they know something? Can they peer into into the future? Inquiring minds want to know.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#467785) #
Man that didn't take long:(
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#467786) #
We might just not have the pitching this year boys.

Maybe we get some heroic thowback performances from some of them tho.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#467787) #
I disagree that it would have been pure stupidity not to send Bo. Even the 590 broadcasters said they were wondering, in real time, what the third base coach was thinking when he sent Bo.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#467788) #
hmm there's a break.
Gerry - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#467789) #
Good article Magpie.

About the post season roster, I think Berrios rather than Bassitt is on the bubble at the moment. Berrios needs to show more consistency to get back in the playoff mix. Right now he is going good start, bad start.
Gerry - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#467790) #
Looking at the data table I see a few notable names. Roger Clemens came in at 6.8 k9, we think of him as a strikeout pitcher but 6.8 would put him close to the bottom of the 2025 list.

I see Tommy John clocks in at 2.8. I guess he had a good defense behind him. Jimmy Key at 3.6 is also lower than I expected.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#467791) #
I think Berrios rather than Bassitt is on the bubble

I don't disagree, and the final three weeks could be a bit of an audition. If all things are equal, if they're both pitching well, I think Bassitt is most likely to go the pen. But Berrios does need to pitch well to keep his spot.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#467792) #
Right now, there's a decent chance that the 4th starter (if needed in a playoff series) would be "bullpen day". That's how several teams recently have run their playoff pitching rotations.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#467793) #
Through 5 innings the Jays have hit exactly zero balls over 100mph. I think the hardest hit ball was Loperfido’s fly out.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#467794) #
George's longest HR since 2021.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#467795) #
big inning for the Tigers. Yanks down 6-2.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#467796) #
7-2, bases loaded, no outs.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#467797) #
Warren pitched 6ip and gave up 2r, then got pulled for the 7th.

The Yanks bullpen has given up 8 runs in the 7th now, still no outs.
soupman - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#467798) #
Buck “I don’t care what the numbers say, the Yankees are *not* a good team.”
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#467799) #
best night for Barger in a long time. He'll be inherently streaky his whole career i think, but this sure would be a good time for a hot streak.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#467800) #
I pinch hit ned flanders next almost no matter what France does.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#467801) #
Oh crap. Wrong guy Schneider.
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#467802) #
IKF can't hit lefties so why pinch hit him there? Also, not sure why Schneider treats Davis Schneider like someone who can't hit. He should be pinch hitting for Loperfido as it's a straight swap.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#467803) #
Clement failing to at least advance Barger to third base down 3-1 in the 7th is painful. A player like Clement should be able to execute in that situation.
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#467804) #
Varsho is just ridiculous.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#467805) #
That IKF pinch hit was just a crazy decision.

Since the 2nd inning of Friday this offense has gotten ultra aggressive and hacktastic. No idea why.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#467806) #
Ok and now they put in ned flanders anyway as a defensive replacement! So Schneider really prefers IKF vs a lefty than Ned Flanders since both were getting the in game regardless? That's a real head scratcher.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#467807) #
IKF pinch hitting over Schneider is just ridiculous.

this IKF pickup is a disaster. in love with this castoff becuase he had a career hot streak for a couple months for us last year.
Marc Hulet - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#467808) #
Gotta line up Gausman to start Game 1 of the Wildcard series.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#467809) #
"IKF pinch hitting over Schneider is just ridiculous."

Can anyone defend this? I mean I just want to know what Schneider was thinking.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#467810) #
Davis Schneider is definitely getting demoted for Santander. That's not even a question anymore. Absolutely absurd decision to use IKF as a pinch hitter against a LHP. He has one of the worst wRC+'s in the league against LHP this season. There's no way to rationalize that.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#467811) #
They’re still in first, Marc.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#467812) #
Agreed on Clement’s failure to get the runner over. There’s just been a boatload of poor ABs tonight.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#467813) #
I might get burned by saying this out loud, but I'm thinking that if we keep consistently relying on the likes if IKF and Straw in huge situations in huge games that it's probably not gonna work out for us.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#467814) #
IKF 2025 wRC+ 74
IKF 2025 (vs LHP) wRC+ 38

Schneider 2025 wRC+ 130
Schneider 2025 (vs LHP) wRC+ 124
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#467815) #
Schneider hates downgrading defensively which is why Jays never pinch hit for Clement even though he has huge splits, use Straw over Schneider to pinch hit regularly and in this case used IKF. Jays care way more about defense than most teams. They're in first so maybe it makes sense but there are times when I just wish the Jays would get someone who can hit.
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#467816) #
Schneider had to play LF anyway and they didn't even use his bat. Insane.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#467817) #
it had nothing to do with defense - he brought Schneider in as a pinch-fielder anyways!

jjdynomite - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#467818) #
The bench may suck, but at least the bullpen seems back.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#467819) #
"Jays care way more about defense than most teams"

But Glevin Ned Flanders was put in the game right after he wasn't used as a pinch hitter. This was not about defense. Scheider must have though IKF was more likely to get a hit than Ned Flanders -- that's the only possible way to read this. Either that or he just made a mistake and called the wrong name by accident.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#467820) #
and then, after using Shchneider to pinch-field, he used Straw to pinch-hit the next inning, when he could have pinch-fielded Straw and then used Schneider as the pinch hitter.

just crazy stuff all around.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#467821) #
Re: Clement. People know he has a fractured bone in his hand, right?
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#467822) #
save us barger
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#467823) #
is he going to pinch hit for Schneider with a pitcher maybe.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#467824) #
Could it be that Schneider want Ned Flanders to come up in the bottom of the ninth with two runners on and this was the only way to engineer it?
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#467825) #
​make us loook silly IKF. please.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#467826) #
always liked IKF. what a pickup by Greatkins.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#467827) #
What was that about IKF?

Buck “ I’ll tell you what, if you don’t believe in these Blue Jays you’re not paying attention”
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#467828) #
Absolute brilliance Schneider!
John Northey - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#467829) #
Heh. Gotta love it. Schneider comes up in a key situation, takes a walk, then IKF ties it up.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#467830) #
makes us look silly, Myles. please.
Four Seamer - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#467831) #
Love Springer, but that was a terrible AB.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#467832) #
Looked like Springer was trying to aggressively crush one, when all he needed was to hit a fly ball or even just make contact in that situation.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#467833) #
vladdy so good.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#467834) #
Perfect play by Vladdy.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#467835) #
Solid inning by Hoffman. Now win it Blue Jays!
Gerry - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#467836) #
Buck and Dan in the eighth inning, "the Astros have a great closer".

Buck and Dan in the ninth, Abreu has now blown five of his nine save opportunities.

One of these things is not like the other.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#467837) #
Davis Schneider walk to extend the inning followed by IKF game tying single.

John Schneider masterclass.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#467838) #
I wouldn't be opposed to Straw attempting a steal of third base to start B10.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#467839) #
VLADDY SO GOOD
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#467840) #
Re IKF: I’m tempted to say positive results don’t justify poor process but that will produce chaos so I’ll just say - way to go IKF!

On a serious note, that’s the best I’ve seen the leverage arms in awhile.
Gerry - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#467841) #
Another Buck special...Vlad always hustles out of the box. Really?

Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#467842) #
Horrible an by Varsho after a horrible ab by Springer previous inning. Make some contact!!
Four Seamer - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#467843) #
Varsho with Springer disease on that AB. Just make some contact!
Four Seamer - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#467844) #
I believe I owe you a Coke, Glevin.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#467845) #
oh man heineman.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#467846) #
HE DID IT!!



that's a really huge win. wowza.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#467847) #
Stole one!
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#467848) #
if the bullpen has that rough patch out of its system now then things'll be a little easier.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#467849) #
Had 'em all the way....

Nah. But it will do.
ayjackson - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#467850) #
Somewhere: How about those Toronto Blue Jays!
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#467851) #
Gotta line up Gausman to start Game 1 of the Wildcard series

I'm sure you meant to say ALDS...right Marc?!?
Glevin - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#467852) #
Huge win and one of the best of the season after two bad losses and a weak-looking start to this one. Every game matters a ton right now.
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#467853) #
What a win. Holy cow.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#467854) #
Unbelievable win tonight. Just massive.
Michael - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#467855) #
I tuned in for the 8th inning, and that was a good end to the game.

I was surprised to see IKF hitting in the 9th and would have pinch hit for him (I hadn't realized he'd been used as a PH already!) - but then he comes through big time.

I also laughed out loud at the Vlad always runs hard out of the box. Um, Vlad is a great player and made a great play on the throw to 3b (which we've seen him do before in extra innings) and was genuinely running hard on that play - but I don't think that's his trademark. Sometimes running hard on routine plays is somewhat performative even if rarely on a surprise bobble or mis-throw it can make a difference, but Vlad is not a 100% run hard guy (and arguably the trade off on health would have us support that in some other plays).

But still a great win.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#467856) #
After Sunday's game against Toronto, the Yankees had a 29.9% chance of winning the division. Now they have a 19.4% chance of winning the division (per Fangraphs). That's how big this win was for the Blue Jays.
blu-j - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#467857) #
Unfortunately, the Red Sox didn't appear to get the memo that this is the Jays' day -- 5-0 bad guys in the 3rd.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#467858) #
Love this win for the players who did great. I really want someone to ask Schneider about why he pinch hit with IKF instead of Ned Flanders. I really have no idea what he would say if he was answering honestly.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#467859) #
Sounds like the Red Sox may have suffered another injury, this time to Romy Gonzalez in tonight's game. The injury may have happened while he was stretching at first base to catch an offline throw.
scottt - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#467860) #
There was a weird sequence in which Houston followed up a tough on left bats lefty with a reverse split lefty.

According to Buck, IKF loves playing on the turf.

uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#467861) #
Manager was asked, and did give an answer. Something along the lines of wanting Davis to come up against the tough righty later.....which seems a stretch tbh.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#467862) #
Buck and Dan in the eighth inning, "the Astros have a great closer".

Indeed they do, but it's the one on the IL.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#467863) #
The Blue Jays are fortunate to be facing SPs Alexander and Javier the next two games (instead of Brown and Valdez), especially after the Astros emptied their bullpen tonight after Garcia left the game early. Hopefully Toronto can take advantage and win those games.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#467864) #
Schneider (the Manager) had a few horse shoes lodged in places that should not be named. He pinch ran for Kirk when he wasn’t the tying run. It wasn’t a terrible decision but I thought at the time that that spot was likely to come up in the 10th (if they ever got there). And Lo and behold:). As for Schneider (the Player) coming up later as per Schneider’s (the Manager) answer, I hope one of the reporters laughed out loud:).

There were some very good ABs in the 9th.
scottt - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#467865) #
Cruz and Leiter totally imploded tonight.
0 outs, 4 hits, 4 walks, 1 HBP, 1 wild pitch, 9 earned runs.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#467866) #
What are the chances Bo makes it back to the lineup (and shortstop) this month? Keegan wrote on bluejays.com that "while the club is optimistic that its star shortstop will return for the stretch run in September, the manager didn’t want to put a timeline on anything just yet."

The ALDS doesn't start until Oct 4, so winning the division and securing a bye seems even more important now, as this would give Bo four extra days of rest before having to play postseason games.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#467867) #
Mitch Bannon
@MitchBannon
·
15m
IKF on his big 9th inning hit:

“I kind of visualized it walking up to the plate. I'm like, I went to Pittsburgh for this hit right here.”
92-93 - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#467868) #
The power of this site is truly incredible, lol. I just want to go on the record as saying that Vladdy is terrible and it was a huge waste of money for the Jays to sign him...

I was thinking that too, Nigel, but I kinda didn't mind the PR because Kirky is that slow that he could turn a potential base hit into an out when the infielder has no chance at getting the hitter at first. The chances are very slim, sure, but still.

10-8 the rest of the way would mean the Yankees need to go 14-4 to win the division. What an enormous comeback win.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#467870) #
Don't sleep on the Red Sox. They're probably going to be 3 GB of Toronto after tonight, they have four more games against the A's, plus a three-game series against the Blue Jays later this month.

The odds still favour Toronto, though. And Boston has lost a few players to injury recently, including Roman Anthony.

Anyway, one game at a time. Win tomorrow.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 09 2025 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#467871) #
one game at a time.

Word.

Pieces fell into place so very neatly tonight. Their Zombie Runner in the tenth was the oldest guy on the team. The Jays Zombie Runner was the fastest guy on the team. Things simply don't work out that well every day.
Nigel - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#467872) #
I understood the logic of pinch running for Kirk. As I said, it wasn’t a terrible decision, it’s just one of those decisions that when you are running bad blows up in your face in the 10th and when you’re running good….. The Varsho AB’s against velocity relievers tonight are why I’d ideally like to see him in the bottom of the lineup. The HR threat is awesome but the inability to hit elevated velocity is a problem in the long sequence part of the lineup.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#467873) #
Yep, I'd much rather have Kirk batting ahead of Varsho with the game on the line.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#467874) #
Scheider must have though IKF was more likely to get a hit than Ned Flanders

Schneider did say something afterward about hoping for some contact in that particular situation, and Kiner-Falefa really is much more likely to make contact than the other Schneider.

Winning the division is not enough. The team wants to be one of the top two in the league, and get a free pass into the ALDS. It's good to be 5.5 ahead of Houston, it's good to be missing Valdez and Brown. It would be good if the Yankees had to deal with Tarik Skubal, but one can't have everything.
pooks137 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#467875) #
I have no problem PR Heineman for Kirk with the leadoff walk Bottom 9 down 3-1. The prerogative is to tie the game. You can't be worried about saving Kirk's bat to possibly show up again in extras.

Even though Kirk wasn't the tying run, his glacial baserunning takes away so many options. Can't hit & run. He's a risk to get thrown out as the lead runner on bunts. Can't do squeeze plays.

It essentially takes 3 singles to score Kirk from 1st. He can't go 1st to 3rd or score from 2nd on a single. Much more difficult to score on a SF.

With Abreu's insane K/9 rate approaching 14, you also aren't going to have many BIP to string together a long sequence offense to tie it.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 01:24 AM EDT (#467876) #
https://x.com/JomboyMedia/status/1965601436374630910
Jonny German - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 04:41 AM EDT (#467877) #
Tuesday September 9: a Toronto win and losses for Houston and New York.

Magic numbers for the Jays to finish ahead of the other top AL teams:

DET 17
NYY 15
HOU 14
BOS 14
scottt - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 08:40 AM EDT (#467878) #
Pitching debut for Red Sox prospect Early who went 5 shutout innings with 11Ks.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#467879) #
Jays really control their destiny with their lead. If they go 11-7 the rest of the way, the Yankees would have to go 15-3 and Red Sox 14-2. I agree that Division and top-2 AL finish is goal. They are 6 losses ahead of Astros which is a nice lead. I think Mariners are actually a better team with all of Astros injuries.

Really loving the vibes of the team. Is this the most likable Jays team ever?

IKF is such a weird player because in some ways, he's the ideal last man but his skills are so weird. He is maybe the most versatile defender in baseball able to play catcher or CF in a pinch. He can't hit lefties at all and isn't great against righties but is really good against high velocity righties. Seems like a good teammate and is clearly overjoyed to be back with Jays (after the Pirates, who wouldn't be?). Hope he keeps contributing and that Schneider stops putting him in places he doesn't belong.
Mike Green - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#467880) #
Yep, a very likeable team.  Their stars are not superstars, and their "role players" are very good at what they do.  Perhaps the first truly Canadian Blue Jay club.  

Bill James commented in one of his studies that white guys seemed to have trouble holding their speed until they are 30.  Counterpoint: Ernie Clement is a little faster now than when he entered the league in 2021.  He is the 10th fastest 29 year old in the league, and is in the top 100 in the league for the first time at age 29.   That really mattered last night.  


James W - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#467881) #
Is this the most likable Jays team ever?

1991? 1992? 1993? 2015? I can't remember how much I liked the 1985 team but they seem very likable in retrospect.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#467882) #
Just want to circle back to one point of commentary from last night. A lot of people were really upset about IKF over Schneider. You should go to baseball reference clutch stats. IKF has had much better results this season. Yes the sample size is small, however I think the decision was very defensible.
braden - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#467883) #
Because I love magic numbers, here are the Jays' magic numbers for everything. These take into account tiebreaks IF the season series is already over:

AL Top 2 (bye)
Detroit 17
Houston 13

AL East
NY 15
Boston 14
Tampa 8
Baltimore 3


Wild Card

WC 1 Seattle 11
WC 2 Cleveland 10
Texas 9
KC 8
Tampa 8
Baltimore 3
LAA 2
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#467884) #
"1991? 1992? 1993? 2015? I can't remember how much I liked the 1985 team but they seem very likable in retrospect."

Early 90s teams had some really likable guys (Carter, Olerud, Molitor, Winfield, etc...) but also had Alomar and Gruber (didn't know at the time.) Stieb had a reputation of being a bit of a jerk as did Jack Morris. 2015 team was so much fun but they weren't a particularly likable bunch. (Donaldson and Stroman both have... difficult personalities.). Likable is obviously subjective of course.
vw_fan17 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#467885) #
Channeling Fergie Olvr and CTV (IIRC, maybe CHCH?) broadcasts back in the day: "How sweet it is!"

And yes, Magpie, I was there in '85.. I started following the Jays in '81, IIRC. Don't remember too much from that first season. I do remember in subsequent years sometimes getting to school all tired, after listening to west coast games on the radio via my one-ear mono headphone until 1:00 am :-)
uglyone - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#467886) #
I just hope the guy whose playing time ends up impacted the most by the IKF add when we're healthy is Gimenez.

85bluejay - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#467887) #
I see Bo to the IL - in 1987 the Fernandez injury late in the season doomed the Jays - that was the most agonizing week in Jays history - let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#467888) #
The Red Sox are 3 GB, but the more important number is the 4 in the loss column. If the Jays can manage 10-8, Boston would need 13-3 to win the division. 9-9 would require 12-4. Also, the A’s have been a good ballclub for months now.

With the results last night, the Yankees went from 2:1 to 4:1 to win the division. The Red Sox are 6.5:1. Just take care of business boys.

greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#467889) #
I would not be counting on Mason Barnett (MLB ERA 9.00; minor-league ERA 6.13) beating the Red Sox today. You might be more optimistic about his chances, though.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#467891) #
Remaining Schedules:

TOR 2 vHOU (.538) --- NYY 2 vDET (.572) --- BOS 3 vDET (.572)

TOR 3 vBOS (.555) --- NYY 3 vBOS (.555) --- BOS 3 vTOR (.576)

TOR 7 vTBR (.500) --- NYY 7 vBAL (.465) --- BOS 3 vNYY (.555)

TOR 3 vKCR (.503) --- NYY 3 vMIN (.441) --- BOS 3 vTBR (.500)

TOR 3 vBAL (.465) --- NYY 3 vCHX (.379) --- BOS 4 vATH (.452)



Non-Playoffs Opponents Recent Trends (Last 10 / Last 20)

KCR 4-6 / 9-11
TBR 7-3 / 11-9
BAL 7-3 / 10-10
ATH 3-7 / 10-10
MIN 3-7 / 6-14
CHX 7-3 / 10-10
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#467892) #
I'm dreading those 4 games down in Tampa. The Jays never do well there, even if it's going to be a different stadium.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#467893) #
10-8 the rest of the way seems like the safest bet to win the division. The 7 left against the Rays scare me more than the others given the Jays/Rays history.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#467894) #
I've been told repeatedly that the Yankees have a very soft schedule the rest of the way. I'm sure no one was thinking of the games with Boston and Detroit. They were thinking of the three with Chicago and the seven with Baltimore. I'll give you the White Sox, but over the last three months, the Orioles have a better record than the Yankees.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#467895) #
I remain irritated by the opening sentence in the Athletic's story on Aaron Judge overtaking Yogi Berra on the Yankees' all time HR list. It reads:

For the first time since July 29, 1966, the New York Yankees’ all-time home run leaderboard has a new face in the top five

This is incorrect,  The same five players have been in the Yankees top five HR list since August 1957,when Mantle overtook Bill Dickey. The order would change, as Mantle went on to pass Berra, DiMaggio, and Gehrig. But it was the same five guys from 1957 until yesterday. I told them it was incorrect, and they haven't fixed it!.


mathesond - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#467898) #
Other comment threads on the Athletic have led me to believe that there is very little editorial oversight there, which may explain why it hasn't been corrected.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#467899) #
Starting Pitching since Bieber's return was officially announced and scheduled (Aug 20):

Gausman 3gms, 7.0ip/gm, 63era-, 64fip-, 72xfip-, 6.9awar/32
Bassitt 4gms, 5.6ip/gm, 59era-, 65fip-, 82xfip-, 4.8awar/32
Bieber 4gms, 5.8ip/gm, 105era-, 74fip-, 61xfip-, 3.2awar/32
Berrios 2gms, 4.2ip/gm, 106era-, 70fip-, 64xfip-, -0.8awar/32
Scherzer 3gms, 4.8ip/gm, 184era-, 160fip-, 122xfip-, -2.1awar/32
Lauer 1gms, 4.7ip/gm, 283era-, 299fip-, 120xfip-, -11.2awar/32
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#467900) #
over the last three months, the Orioles have a better record than the Yankees

The O's can be competitive at times, but they also traded away a lot of players at the end of July (Dominguez, O'Hearn, Laureano, Mullins, Kittredge, Urias). Since the deadline, the O's are 17-18 with a -14 run differential.
scottt - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#467902) #
The O's took 2 of the first 3 games in May.
Anything can happen.
scottt - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#467904) #
Not crazy about Varsho in the clean up spot, but at least he's 2 for 3 against Alexander.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#467905) #
Huge win from the resurgent Athletics today. Chapman gave up the winning run in the bottom of the 9th, tie game.
scottt - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#467906) #
Still amazes me that Refsnyder became a lefty masher for Boston. The year he wore a Jays uniform he hit .071 against lefties with a .329 OPS.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#467907) #
Baseball is hard. Very few "easy" teams. Rockies are awful but apart from that White Sox, Nats, and Pirates on the road aren't very good. Braves have 6th worst record in baseball. They still have Acuna, Sale, etc...
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#467908) #
I’m pleasantly surprised the A’s won today’s game, even after a predictably bad start by Barnett (game score of 38). A good reminder that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win in baseball.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#467909) #
Great start for Berrios! Everything in the first was very well located. I hope it keeps up
Nigel - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#467911) #
On the plus side, Barger has had some really quality ABs the last couple of games. On the negative side, the quality of Gimenez's ABs continues to deteriorate.
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#467912) #
Jays making another journeyman starter look like a cy young candidate.
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#467913) #
"Jays making another journeyman starter look like a cy young candidate."

Earth to Marc:

The Jays have the third most runs scored in the AL this year.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#467914) #
Tyler Holton just got Judge to ground into a DP to end the 6th. Still 2-0 Tigers. The Yankees and Red Sox games could come to the Blue Jays’ rescue today (if the Astros lead holds up).
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#467915) #
Question: should Schreck be on the MLB roster right now? His potent bat might help the team’s offense wake up a bit.
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#467916) #
He's not backing down. Schneider is serious about his love for IKF.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#467917) #
3-0 Tigers. Gleyber Torres has all 3 RBIs.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#467918) #
Ernie just missed it!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#467919) #
Go Gimenez! Go Blue Jays!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#467920) #
Lukes works his magic!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#467921) #
Here are the Blue Jays players who generated those two runs: IKF, France, Gimenez, Lukes

On a successful team, sometimes it’s the unheralded players who get the job done.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#467922) #
Bloody hell, Hoffman. Another home run?
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#467923) #
Hoffman is infuriating. Can he give up a 105 mph double every once in a while rather than a home run?
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#467924) #
No worries. IKF up in the bottom of the ninth. Blood pressure back to normal.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#467925) #
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#467926) #
Varsho had two very hittable pitches to start the ninth. Slider and FB right in his hitting zone. He took the first and fouled off the second. Then a classic Varsho pop fly on the third and final pitch up and away.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#467927) #
Just not going to win very often when your top-5 go 1/20 with a single.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#467928) #
This game was clearly on the offense. Hoffman is what Hoffman is, but you can't get shutout over 7 IP by Jason Alexander this time of year. Just a frustrating game all around. At least the Yankees are down 8-1 in the 9th and the Red Sox lost, all while removing one game off the schedule.
Four Seamer - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#467929) #
Any chance we could trade Hoffman for Tulowitzki a second time?
Sherrystar - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#467930) #
And not gonna win when your closer gives up 13 home runs in the 9th inning or later.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#467931) #
Caleb tearing into the Blue Jays pitch selection to Diaz in the ninth.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#467932) #
Hoffman has surrendered a hr every 4 innings this season on average. Just not viable.
Four Seamer - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#467933) #
I don’t much care for Hoffman, but I can’t help but be amused that a capital c “Closer” has amassed a 9-7 record. There are full-time starters who have logged fewer decisions!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#467934) #
Caleb also ripping the manager for using Hoffman again for the third time in four days instead of going to the fresher Seranthony, who he said has pitched once in eight days.
scottt - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#467935) #
The magic number is 5. This would have gone into extra innings again, anyway.


Hoffman was up because they had a chance at taking the lead in the 8th.



Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#467936) #
The Jays have absolutely overused Hoffman this year. He gave up a HR but that wasn't main reason Jays lost. The lineup just couldn't hit at all of a not very good pitcher. Top 5 were 1/20 with a single against a AAA pitcher. Bad abs, weak contact.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#467937) #
Caleb’s point, and I think it’s a good one, was that at this time of year, you’re fighting for the division, and you can’t worry about hurt feelings about a non-closer potentially getting given the save opportunity. You use the best pitcher for the situation, and in Caleb’s view, the rested Seranthony was the better choice for that situation.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#467938) #
Dominguez would have been a good choice to use. The Astros had S-R-R-R due up until Alvarez was up. If the Jays were down 2-1 then Dominguez probably comes in but since it was tied they went with Hoffman, and that continues to be bad bullpen management (which unfortunately has been the norm for as long as Schneider has been here). If Hoffman was elite then you could justify it, but he's been above as far from elite as possible.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#467939) #
Greenfrogs been pointing out Hoffman's overuse all season and I agree. He's been used 4 days or more in a row a few times and 3 days many times.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#467940) #
Feels like Schneider needs a bit more of a sense of urgency right now, as in, go directly to the correct PH or RP in a given situation, and stop being so cautious or tentative about players’ egos or tethered to the conventional regular-season thing to do.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#467941) #
I have no reason to believe that Schneider cares about egos or I'd managing because of it. Hoffman is his best reliever and he goes to him all the time. The problem is that there is a direct correlation between his overuse and his struggles. I saw some data on twitter showing how after his 4/5 appearances (he leads baseball in those), his arm angle drops, his movement drops, and his velocity drops. I have no doubt that he'd be a better pitcher if they didn't keep overusing him. Because of the RH guys up, Dominguez made a ton of sense today.

Hopefully, Davis Schneider gets in lineup tomorrow. He's done everything the Jays could have hoped for and more and is relegated to last bench spot for reasons I can't fathom.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#467942) #
From Chris Black on Twitter. "Jeff Hoffman was pitching for the 3rd time in 4 days tonight.

Last night, he threw the slowest fastball of his season (94.1mph) & tonight 6 of his 8 fastballs were below 95mph.

Prior to this series, Hoffman had thrown 14 fastballs all season below 95mph".

I don't unseratand how Jays can be so careful with starter arms and so nonchalant with Hoffman's.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#467943) #
Hoffman hasn’t thrown 3 days in a row all season but he’s thrown 4 in 5 days at least 5-6 times already. I’m actually surprised Hoffman has stayed healthy given the issue with his physical that scared teams off in the winter.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#467944) #
Schneider also said something at the presser that was kind of dumb, in my opinion. He tried to justify the inside FB to Diaz (that was hit for a HR) by saying, that was what we were trying to do all night — pitch Diaz inside. In other words, Hoffman was faithfully sticking to the plan.

But, as Caleb mentioned, maybe by the ninth inning that plan needed to be revised. By that point in the game, after so many inside FBs over the course of the game, Diaz would have figured out the general plan and been looking for that pitch. The fact that Schneider couldn’t see this and could only envision, “must throw more inside FBs to Diaz because that is the predetermined plan,” is problematic to me.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#467945) #
The lineup just couldn't hit at all of a not very good pitcher.

Who is now 5-1, 2.82 in 10 starts since Houston picked him up. So maybe they found something that works for him.

Who knows. I'm sure the other teams fans moan when Tommy Nance shuts them down.
Four Seamer - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#467946) #
The usage/results patterns are illuminating, but I think the broader issue is that Hoffman is an erratic but ultimately middling reliever who
is being paid like a reliable commodity, however, and so his pay dictates his use and the length of the ropes Schneider applies.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#467947) #
that was what we were trying to do all night — pitch Diaz inside.

Probably because he had two hits the night before on sliders on the outer half (the other was on a slider up in the zone.) He likes the ball out there. Hoffmann just didn't get his fastball far enough inside.
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#467948) #
Count me as glad we're finding out who the real Hoffman is now and not in the playoffs.

Just hope Schneider is taking note.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#467949) #
Hoffman has decent K and BB rates and an xFIP of 3.46.

The issue is the long ball. His HR/9IP rates the last three seasons were 7.5%, 6.7% and 9.4%. This year it’s 21.7%.

Also, the heavy use of Hoffman dates back to last year, when he appeared in 68 regular-season games (a career high by far) plus 3 postseason games. This year he’s already up to 65 games. That heavy two-year workload may be catching up to him. He also pitched quite a bit in 2023 if you include both his 54 regular-season games and 8 postseason games.

I think there is some research that suggests reliever abuse one season can show up in his performance the next season.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#467950) #
Sorry — that is Hoffman’s HR/FB percentage, but the statistical trend is the same for his HR/9IP numbers year-over-year.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#467951) #
Magpie, another problem with the pitch was lack of velocity. If the pitch had been 98 instead of 94, the outcome might have been different. The issuez with location and velocity may have been related to fatigue/overuse.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 10 2025 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#467952) #
Sigh - just one loss and it didn't affect much. Yanks lose, Red Sox lose, so still a 3 game lead but with just 17 to go. Jays go 8-9 then the Yankees need to go 12-5, Red Sox 12-3 (they have played 2 more and lost them) to win as the Jays have the tie breaker with both. Could it happen? Sure, but each day that goes by with the Jays holding that 3 game lead means it is that much harder for the others to catch them. Yes, the Tigers now have the best record in the AL by 1/2 a game, yes, Houston inched closer (now 4 1/2 back with the tiebreaker in hand after today) thus putting the bye at risk, but not at a big risk (Jays have 4 more wins and 5 fewer losses).

So no need to panic. Yes, Hoffman was misused imo as well and needs more rest. Yes, I wanted to see Davis Schneider hit at some point instead of IKF also. However, you can't argue the Jays aren't in a great position for September 10th vs most years. 1985 they had a 1 1/2 game lead on this date, 1987 1 1/2 (blew it), 1989 2 1/2, 1991 4 games, 1992 3 1/2, 1993 1 game, 2015 1 1/2. So only 1992 (barely) and 1991 saw bigger leads after they played on September 10th. The only one they blew was 1987's lead of 1 1/2. No other year did they have the lead on this date (1990 they'd move into first later peaking at 1 1/2 on Sep 25 but blew that - last gasp of Bell-McGriff-Fernandez before the big trade and letting Bell walk).

Now, if Kirk gets hurt ala Ernie Whitt in 1987 after Tony Fernandez was earlier then panic might make sense (then getting waaaay too close to 1987's nightmare) but unless that happens I'm staying calm. Age shows you anything is possible, but also many things are highly improbable.
The_Game - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 02:33 AM EDT (#467953) #
Greenfrog, the Jays’ management stubbornly sticking with a preset plan to their detriment shouldn’t be too unfamiliar for anybody who has followed the team in this era.

If you’re looking for nuance and decision making based on in-game context, you’ve come to the wrong place.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 03:31 AM EDT (#467954) #
Wednesday September 10: Losses for New York and Boston. Houston's win secures the tiebreaker for them over Toronto. Toronto holds the tiebreaker over New York, Boston, and Detroit. Detroit moves 1/2 game ahead of the Jays for the American League lead.

Magic numbers for the Jays to finish ahead of the other top AL teams:

DET 17
NYY 14
BOS 13
HOU 13

17 games remaining for Toronto.
Magpie - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#467955) #
...denouncing team management and all their works every step of the way, from now until the End of Days.

Win, lose, or postponed by rain.
85bluejay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:13 AM EDT (#467956) #
"Homer" Hoffman strikes again! WOW, imagine having him coming into the game with a one run lead/tied game in the playoffs!
Ryan Day - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#467957) #
Hoffman's only given up 51 hits, but 15 of them have been homers. This is the second-most home runs he's ever given up in a season, and he pitched in Colorado for five years. Batters are hitting 219/291/468 against him, which amusingly similar to Daulton Varsho's career 225/295/428.

It's as fascinating as it is horrifying.
Ryan Day - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#467958) #
Jays making another journeyman starter look like a cy young candidate.

I admit to not knowing who Alexander was prior to yesterday, but he gave up 7 hits & 3 runs in 11 innings vs the Yankees. "Journeyman pitcher has good stretch" is not unprecedented in MLB.
dalimon5 - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#467959) #
If every Hoffman home run and associated earned runs instead came from bloop singles would the same two "selective" and negative posters still come here every few weeks to share their insights? I do wonder... then take Ugly's previous advice that it doesn't matter and is better to just ignore. Moving on...
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#467960) #
To me, there is a big difference between lamenting the fact that the team's closer is underperforming in a close pennant race, and lamenting the fact that the closer is underperforming in a close pennant race *and is being overused at times when there are other capable options in the bullpen to pitch some of those games*.

Last night was an example of the second situation. Dominguez and Nance, both of whom are excellent against RHB and were rested, would have been reasonable choices to pitch the ninth instead of a tired and volatile Hoffman.

Did you know that Nance has had 22 outings this year and only allowed earned runs in three of them? By comparison, Hoffman has allowed earned runs (sometimes as many as four) in six of his last 22 outings.

But that would require the manager putting himself out there and risk having to justify an unconventional choice. Nance is basically the Davis Schneider of the pitching staff: great numbers, but the manager is reluctant to use him in important situations.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#467961) #
Also, it's noteworthy that the main hypothesis offered by John Schneider for why Hoffman is getting hit hard this year is that "teams prepare differently for a quote-unquote closer."

So then why not use a non-closer in some key situations? If the manager is correct and teams do less preparation in relation to facing a non-closer, then a non-closer would presumably have a better chance of outduelling the other team's less-prepared hitters.

The manager's logic seems all tangled up here.
Glevin - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#467962) #
Chris Black has some great posts on Hoffman. It's been clear for a long time that Hoffman shouldn't be used as often as he has been. When he pitches too much, his velocity drops.

"97 or lower:
22 hits, 9 HR, .319 avg, .783 slug, -8 run value

97+ mph:
4 hits, 1 HR, .129 avg, .258 slug, +2 run value"


I compared his usage to Duran who is almost identical to Hoffman in games and IP, to Chapman who has been best closer in baseball, and to Estevez who leads majors in saves. Might be off because it's not easiest to eyeball.

4 outings in 5 days: Hoffman-6, Duran-2, Chapman-2, Estevez-2
2 inning outings: Hoffman-3, Duran-1, Chapman-0, Estevez-0

I don't know how you look at all the data and think the Jays haven't overused Hoffman and that it's had major consequences on his performance.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#467963) #
Even if you could justify the overuse earlier this season on the basis of few good options in the bullpen, how can you justify it now, when the team has added two leverage RHP at the deadline and rosters have expanded in September, allowing for another arm on the roster, and the bullpen is relatively rested in any event?

I guess the mindset is, “ninth inning, tie ballgame…gotta be Hoffman” no matter what. “That’s his role.”
John Northey - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#467964) #
No question they've been overusing Hoffman. 4 games in 5 days is asking for trouble and should be avoided unless it is 'must win' time (ie: playoffs, or you are out of the playoffs and needing wins to get there - neither of which apply right now).

Checking BR I see PA in high leverage...
  • Hoffman 118, Little 111, Gausman 101, Bassitt 100, Berrios 93, Rodriguez 71 then a massive drop to Lauer at 43.
  • Varland 11, Nance 15, Dominguez 18 - you get the idea - these guys haven't had many chances.
  • % PA in high: 40%+: Burr (50%), Hoffman (45), Little (42), Lovelady (42) - 2 odd names, 2 expected.
  • % PA in low: Schultz 86%, Walker, Bruihl, Nance all over 75% - ie: zero trust in them by Schneider.
  • Others % PA in low >50%: Tate, Barnes, Swanson, Fluharty, Turnbull, Varland, Urena, Green, Fisher, Rodriguez (!)
  • %PA in medium: over 40%: Ryan Borucki (50% highest), Shane Bieber, Bowden Francis, Lazaro Estrada, Chris Bassitt, Max Scherzer, José Berríos, Kevin Gausman, Easton Lucas, Eric Lauer - no shock a lot of starters here.
Boy it is clear who is and isn't trusted in pressure when you do this exercise. But is it justified? Lets look at sOPS+ (OPS+ vs all of ML in that same situation)
  • sOPS+ high: Hoffman 120, Little 93, Gausman 111, Bassitt 111, Berrios 72, Rodriguez 48 (!). Note: Lauer 55, Green 16 (!!!! vs 218 in low), Garcia 140 (-1 in low), Fisher 47, Fluharty 100, Dominguez 50, Nance 88, Varland 155 (his sucks in all 3 categories)
  • Medium: Hoffman 60, Little 114, Rodriguez 55, Lauer 91, Fisher 117, Fluharty 48, Dominguez 120, Nance 41, Varland 261
  • Low: Hoffman 126, Little 35, Rodriguez 90, Lauer 107, Fisher 22, Dominguez 69, Nance 8 (!), varland 131
Looking at those it seems Yariel might be ready to close - he does great under pressure. You can see why Nance is used in low as he kills it, but he isn't bad in the other situations, just not as good as he is in low. Medium is often (for Hoffman) a 2-3 run lead in the 9th so maybe it would be wise to let him dominate those games and use Yariel for 1 run leads - he has had just 2 save opportunities in the 9th and converted them both (2 and 3 run leads and didn't allow a baserunner). Once used in extras and went 2 scoreless innings (2 BB, 1 intentional, 2 K's, 0 hits). Worth a shot I'd say.
ISLAND BOY - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#467965) #
Well, we're all bitching and moaning after the game last night, including myself, but look at the other contenders. Boston had beaten the Athletics 7-0 and 6-0, but lost their third game as the A's walked them off with Arnoldis Chapman allowing the winning run. The Yankees got run over by Detroit 11-1 with their bullpen giving up home runs left and right.

Yeah, Seranthony would have been a better choice for the ninth but at least the Jays didn't lose any ground in the standings.
Glevin - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#467966) #
Santander rehab starting today!!
jjdynomite - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#467967) #
... only 38 homers to catch up to last season!
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#467968) #
... only 38 homers to catch up to last season!

that would be one hell of a finish to the season!

greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#467969) #
Huge home run for Davis, extending the Blue Jays’ lead to three runs.

He now has a 138 wRC+ and is hitting both RHP and LHP well. Tremendous year for him, even if his manager sometimes seems to under-utilize or undervalue him.
Eephus - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#467970) #
I’ve said it before, but Guerrero Jr is weirdly good at catching those over the shoulder pop ups.
Eephus - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#467971) #
And Gausman does the rest to escape the jam. Even the normally tranquil Kevin is fired up.
Chuck - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#467972) #
The Astros field like bears on roller skates.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#467973) #
In his last 9 starts previous to today:

Gausman: 9gms, 6.6ip/gm, 63era-, 75fip-, 77xfip-, 6.0 avg.war/32gms


and it's probably going to be looking even better than that after today.


That's what you want your playoffs Gm1 starter to look like.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#467974) #
"I’ve said it before, but Guerrero Jr is weirdly good at catching those over the shoulder pop ups."

you'd think that, along with his gun of an arm and solid speed, could have him playing pretty effectively in his old man's position.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#467975) #
Yeah, saying that it's ok the Jays lost last night because so did Boston and New York ... but being 4 games up vs 3 takes even more pressure off especially given how incredibly easy the Yankees' schedule gets soon (especially in contrast to the Jays')... that's one of those games you kick yourself for if you end up in the wildcard series.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#467976) #
this pitching is just so fun to watch.
electric carrot - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#467977) #
Good to see Barger, Lukes and Varsho swinging the bat well again.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#467978) #
Ace
John Northey - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#467979) #
Boy, can just imagine how this is hitting Houston fans. 2 hit shutout of the team leading the AL West. Sweet.
SK in NJ - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#467980) #
Wow what a performance from Gausman! Much needed break for the pen and only threw 100 pitches. Big time.
Glevin - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#467981) #
Enormous game by Gausman. Getting back to ace level is pretty huge.
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#467982) #
that's one of those games you kick yourself for if you end up in the wildcard series

They never lead in Wednesday’s game. It was a gut punch, but they just as easily could have lost in extras. There have been several more painful losses. This was pretty standard. Also, do we not remember Tuesday’s result? The Jays stole that game. Does that count for nothing? I continued to be surprised and frustrated that so many people on this site focus on negative things while the team is enjoying its most successful season in 10, and possibly 30 years.

BlueJayWay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#467983) #
Gausman might be an ace again.
scottt - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#467984) #
If that wasn't Gausman's best game ever, it should be pretty close.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#467985) #
Two consecutive dominant starts by Gausman in very important games against key AL rivals. Wow.
slitheringslider - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#467987) #
they also now won 2/3 vs Astros, and this year they've definitely outperformed in 1-run games. There's a lot of luck involved in baseball you can't win them all. Not every loss or blown lead is the end of the world.

Playing 500 ball in the last 6 games against 2 playoff teams is acceptable given the circumstances.
ISLAND BOY - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#467988) #
A graphic shown after the game detailed Gausman's last 3 games. Milwaukee 7 innings 1 earned run, NY Yankees 8 innings 1 earned run, Houston 9 innings 0 earned runs. 22 strikeouts, 2 walks !
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#467989) #
I am very positive about this team, and I fully accept that losses of all kinds are going to happen over the course of an MLB season. I commented quite a bit about yesterday’s game because I felt that there was a process issue around RP and pitch selection that was worth delving into (as did Caleb, at length, on Sportsnet after the game).

Today’s game was a perfect way to rebound from the loss, win the series, and put even more pressure on the Yankees and Red Sox.
BlueJayWay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#467990) #
...and the sun pours down like honey on our pitcher of the harbour...
Gerry - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#467991) #
Blue Jays transactions say Alek Manoah has been optioned to Buffalo. I believe his rehab was about to end.
Gerry - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#467992) #
Orelvis has been DFA'd to clear a 40 man roster spot.

That's a big fall for Orelvis, from top 100 prospect to DFA in 18 months.
Glevin - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#467994) #
As Gerry says, a huge and fast fall for Orelvis but very hard to see a future for him after this year. Sad side of baseball.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#467996) #
New prospect in buffalo doing pretty well:

https://x.com/BuffaloBisons/status/1966280913425486286
lexomatic - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#467997) #
My 2 good takes this year were that neither Davis Schneider nor Gausman was done.
John Northey - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#467998) #
Wow, that is amazing that Orelvis has hit that point now. Of course, his year has been horrid - 176/288/348 is not cutting it at any level. Can't see why anyone would grab him now. Maybe in an effort to rebuild him but with no options left odds are anyone who takes him would need to demote him and risk losing him in 2026 anyways. So basically I'd expect the Jays to retain him for now unless the Rockies or White Sox are interested.
John Northey - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:16 PM EDT (#467999) #
Not a lot of choice on Manoah - who'd you dump from the current roster when we already have 6 starters here? Hopefully he doesn't get discouraged but instead more determined to prove he is ready.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#468000) #
I'll be shocked if the White Sox don't claim Orelvis. They love those plus raw power guys and can afford to carry him into spring and see if they can make some adjustments over the winter (although their player development is pretty bad). Miami is another team that might be interested.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#468001) #
Probable pitchers for Boston against the Yankees this weekend: Giolito, Bello, Crochet. That is good for the Blue Jays, if you believe the Yankees (who have a soft remaining schedule in September) are more of a threat to catch the Blue Jays in the AL East than the injury-depleted Red Sox are.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#468002) #
The Yankees are crushing the Tigers 9-1 at the moment. Good that Toronto was able to win their series against Houston.

As I mentioned a few days ago, one advantage the Blue Jays have (apart from their three-game lead in the division plus the tiebreak advantage) is that 9 of their final 16 games are at home, whereas only 6 of the Yankees' final 16 games are in Yankee Stadium. That should offset the strength-of-schedule disparity to some extent. The Blue Jays remain in good position with 16 to play.
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#468003) #
Good point, greenfrog
Glevin - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#468004) #
I also think we make too much of easy/hard schedule. I mean Rockies are a joke and a couple of other teams aren't far off but most teams, even bad teams are still not easy to beat. The best team in baseball wins only 60% of the time. The easy teams win like 45% of the time. That's baseball.
uglyone - Thursday, September 11 2025 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#468005) #
Agree with you there Glevin.

Especially at this point of the year when a bubble team that just realized they're out of a playoffs race is considered much better than a bottom feeder that might be a bunch of talenter kids just having some pressureless fun at the end of the year when the reality might be the opposite.
Jonny German - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 03:33 AM EDT (#468007) #
Thursday September 11: A win for Toronto knocks 1 off all magic numbers. A loss for Detroit means Toronto reclaims the American Leauge lead by half a game.

Magic numbers for the Jays to finish ahead of the other top AL teams:

DET 15
NYY 13
BOS 12
HOU 11

16 games remaining for Toronto and New York, 15 for the others.
scottt - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 06:09 AM EDT (#468008) #
Walker Buehler went on a rant against robo-umps after being recalled from the minors.

Not too surprising.
greenfrog - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 06:54 AM EDT (#468009) #
We’ve talked about the importance of winning the division and securing a bye so that the Blue Jays have a longer series in the first round of the playoffs. Another reason to aim for the best W-L record possible is to secure home field advantage in the postseason (to the extent possible). The Blue Jays have one of the best W-L records in MLB when playing at home this year.
John Northey - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#468010) #
As always, thinking about the post-season roster and what the heck it'll be. Current best guess if everyone is healthy...
  • C (2): Kirk & Heineman (duh)
  • IF (5): Vlad-Gimenez-Bo-Barger-Clement
  • OF (6): Varsho-Straw, Lukes-Schneider, Santander-Springer (one DH's, other in field)
  • Injury backup: (3+): IKF, France, Loperfido, etc. are used if injuries happen - probably in that order.
  • Starters: Gausman-Bieber-Scherzer-Bassitt or Lauer (depending on RH or LH heavy lineup)
  • Pen: Hoffman-Rodriguez-Little-Dominguez-Fisher-Varland-Nance-Borucki-Lauer (if not in rotation) with 1 slot left.
Oy, this will be tough, especially for the pen. I figure a lot will depend on who is hot and who is not plus injuries, plus who the opponent is.
Katie - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#468011) #
I don't see the benefit in having a ninth reliever in a playoff series given the off days.

I'd rather have an extra bat/bench option.
92-93 - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#468012) #
If they intend on carrying Lauer on the playoff roster, they might want to use him more than twice in like the last month. That ship has probably sailed, for now.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#468013) #
tbh i think they're probably hoping to hold Lauer off for another start next time around the rotation.
92-93 - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#468014) #
And they expect him to be effective after barely pitching? TBH that sounds like a bad idea.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#468015) #
yeah probably.
scottt - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#468016) #
It's not really the number of days, it's that having the same relievers face the same hitters over and over might leads to bad results.
Yeasavage is in the conversation because he's a totally new look for anyone who hasn't been in the minors this year.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#468017) #
interestingly, the bullpen is suddenly having their best or 2nd best month of the year.

APR: 96era-, 86fip-, 90xfip-
MAY: 75era-, 83fip-, 85xfip-
JUN: 99era-, 104fip-, 111xfip-
JUL: 121era-, 99fip-, 95xfip-
AUG: 117era-, 109fip-, 104xfip-
SEP: 87era-, 74fip-, 90xfip-


uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#468018) #
It strikes me that the return of Fisher - and with it a return to our full first-choice bullpen (the only argument is Borucki vs Fluharty but tbh after diving deeper I think Borucki is actually a pretty astute pickup and a very good depth LOOGY) - has our bullpen suddenly in a very good place now.

The only real issues lately have been Hoffman and Varland, but the rest of the bullpen is starting to look pretty settled.

Which might mean the manager might feel more comfortable sharing the closer leverage with relievers other than Hoffman.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#468019) #
Barger and Lukes sitting vs the lefty.

Schneider in the 2 hole. France at 1B. Springer in RF.

both IKF and Gimenez in the lineup, but this time Gimenez is at SS.
Mike Green - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#468020) #
Daulton Varsho now has 18 homers in 220 PAs and a slugging percentage of .576, by virtue of a .344 IsoP.  Those figures are all a world apart from his career norms, and is that predominantly luck/a hot streak or is something more meaningful and sustainable going on?  The Statcast data would suggest the latter:
- his max EV is the highest of his career by 1 mph and he's done it in 1/3 of a year's PAs
- his average EV is up 2 mph from his career best average and has gone from 1 mph below average to 1 mph above average
-his barrel rate is almost double his career norms
- his hard-hit rate is up 4% from his career norms
- he's even increased his already high pull rate on balls in the air

And in terms of pitches he handles effectively, he has diversified.  He has usually been OK against a fastball, and this year he has deserved to be better than that but had a little bad luck.  This year, he has absolutely demolished offspeed pitches to the tune of a wOBA of .583 and an xwOBA of .491.  He's never done anything like that before and it's only 109 pitches, but I think that something was unlocked.  I don't think he'll keep up with a .344 IsoP (pitchers will throw him more breaking pitches and he'll walk more than he has been doing), but I think that this year's performance will mark a sustainable change in his offensive level.

I hope that he's here for a long time.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#468021) #
what might be encouraging about Varsho is comparing his pre and post injury stats, given there was such a big gap - too big a gap to reasonably consider both as part of the same "hot streak" imo.

PRE: 100pa, 5.0bb%, 31.0K%, .196babip, .207avg, .337iso, 102wrc+
Post: 120pa, 9.2bb%, 26.7k%, .258babip, .255avg, .349iso, 149wrc+

compared to his previous career line:

Career: 2116pa, 8.6bb%, 24.4k%, .265babip, .225avg, .189iso, 96wrc+


So his pre-injury line was overall in line with his career numbers (wRC+), but with wildly different component stats - way fewer walks, more strikeouts, much lower babip, all worse numbers but carried by a huge power surge way above anything he'd done before.

We would have expected all those numbers to normalize - his walks to come up, Ks to go down, babip come up, and power to fall. But somehow he managed to get all his underperforming components back to normal.... without sacrificing anything from his huge singular overperformance in power.

I have no idea if he can keep it up but imo it's notable that his power didn't diminish at all after that long break. That tells me its more than just a hot power streak. And now he's shown that that power boost isn't dependant on any big sacrifices in any other area.

greenfrog - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#468023) #
Varsho’s bat speed is up this year as well, which might suggest some sort of mechanical improvement:

2023: 74.6
2024: 73.7
2025: 75.4
greenfrog - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#468024) #
I still don’t think Varsho has become a great hitter. But he can be an effective one if he taps into his strengths, as he has clearly done this year. Coupled with his strong fielding at a premium position, that is a very valuable player. Hopefully he can strengthen his throwing arm in the off-season.
Nigel - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#468025) #
I have long wondered why any pitcher throws Varsho anything but FBs at the belt and above. Whatever the reason, long may it continue!
John Northey - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 06:39 PM EDT (#468027) #
The biggest change he mentioned in an interview was that he is trying to hit the ball back at the pitcher now - that is his target when swinging. And it works, he has no idea why but it has.
BlueJayWay - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#468028) #
Yeah I don't get it either. He simply cannot physically hit fastballs up if they're more than about 94-95. 

If I had that fastball I'd never throw him anything but.
uglyone - Friday, September 12 2025 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#468032) #
I dunno the pitch data this year and career has him a bit below average on 4 seamers but nothing crazy. Same with Sliders.

But he crushes the fastball variant cutters and splitters.

And curves and changes.
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