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Due to popular demand, we're starting up a new feature here at Batter's Box. This thread, Hijack Central, will be the place to post word of breaking news stories in baseball, particularly those that concern the Blue Jays: trades, signings, hot rumours and other off-season developments. If the news is significant enough, one of the administrators will create a new thread specifically to discuss the transaction, and post a note to that effect in Hijack Central. So in future, if you've just heard of a report of great interest to Bauxites, post it here with a link, rather than in the nearest thread. And keep watching the "20 Hot Topics" down the left-hand side of the page to see if Hijack Central has recently been updated -- that's where you'll find the latest news!
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_Jordan - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 10:23 AM EST (#85513) #
Here's one to start us off: the Anaheim Angels are seriously interested in Kelvim Escobar, and wouldn't mind adding Shannon Stewart as well. Too bad they released Brad Fullmer, or the Halos would have a nice package of ex-Jays out there. Anaheim is in a murderously tough division, but adding Escobar to a rotation that already incluides Jarrod Washburn and John Lackey (and they're hard after Bartolo Colon too), with that bullpen behind them, would make the Angels a force to be reckoned with. (The site requires registration, but thanks to someone at Baseball Primer, the combination "bselig-bselig" for Username and Password will get you in.)
_Geoff - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 10:51 AM EST (#85514) #
How does this thread work? If I want to comment on the Angels pursuing Escobar, do I have to wait until this post gets its own thread? Is this thread for Hijacks only?
Pepper Moffatt - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 11:33 AM EST (#85515) #
http://economics.about.com
Geoff: I imagine you can discuss previous messages. It'd be no fun if you couldn't!

Mike
_Gary Geiger Cou - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 12:30 PM EST (#85516) #
http://www.baseballhistory.blogspot
Howdy, it looks like the Manchester NH Double A affiliate won't be named the Primaries after all. At least according to this story.
Pistol - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 01:26 PM EST (#85517) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1662230
Gammon's latest

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1662230
_R Billie - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 01:32 PM EST (#85518) #
The Angels would be the worst possible destination for Escobar in terms of draft pick compensation. They pick 12th which means they wouldn't lose their first round pick and the Jays would get the sandwich pick and the extra pick would be 12th in the second round. And if the Angels sign anyone better than Escobar (a real possibility as they're a buyer this year) then the pick would be pushed back even further.

Although in the big scheme of things this might not matter THAT much. I would be much nicer to get an extra Aaron Hill in the first round but it wouldn't suck to get an extra David Bush or Josh Banks in the second round either.

The White Sox would probably be the best destination for Kelvim as they hold the 18th overall pick (just two behind the Jays at 16) and would lose their first rounder as they are unlikely to sign free agents better than Escobar. They're also in a different division. The Phillies also wouldn't be bad as they hold the 21st pick and aren't even in the same league; there's a chance they could sign a better free agent than Escobar though. Boston wouldn't be good; they have the 24th pick but they're in the same division and they might not stop at signing Kelvim.
_Geoff - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 01:50 PM EST (#85519) #
I have two questions based on Gammons' latest

A)How many Free Agents should we estimate will accept arbitration?

B)How many Free Agents will sit out until at least May 1st because they refuse arbitration and then realize no one will pay the compensatory picks required to acquire them?

I say both groups will have record-high numbers
robertdudek - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 02:48 PM EST (#85520) #
Gary Sheffield has met with George Steinbrenner in Tampa Bay. The odds are now very good that Sheff will sign with the Yankees if George decides he doesn't want or can't get Vlad.

This is in keeping with the Yankees modus operandi: buying aging players who have very good on-base skills. This will be a good move for the Yankees if they can pull it off, as Sheffield is in pretty good shape for a man his age.
_Tassle - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 04:08 PM EST (#85521) #
Considering the depth of the Jays farm system at the moment, and with all the arms down there that could compete with Kelvim in a year or 2, I'd rather have him sign with another team. With the extra cash, the Jays could sign 2 or maybe even 3 lower tier pitchers to 1-year deals and have enormous financial flexibility next winter. Imagine, Carlos coming off the books, McGowan, Arnold, Banks, Rios and Gross possibly ready for the big leagues and maybe 20 million dollars to throw around. 6 million to Escobar, a guy who had proven time and time again that he is not very reliable, throws a screw in all that. I think the only reason to resign Escobar is to be more competitive next year, sacrifcing some long term flexibility, and I don't think that has ever been a staple of the Ricciardi regime.
_R Billie - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 04:44 PM EST (#85522) #
The problem is always trying to balance the future with maintaining forward progress in the present. No matter how good the prospects coming up in 2005 are it's hard to count on them, especially the pitchers. The Giants had the three best major league ready pitching prospects in baseball this year and only Williams managed to both remain healthy and perform well. If the Jays are fortunate they will produce one productive major league arm for the 2005 season. And they'll be that much better off if the rotation already contains two quality arms.

Much of what happens in 2005 and beyond, particularly the budget, will depend in large part on what happens in 2004. If the Jays show well there will certainly be more incentive to spend more on the team. And no matter how good the waves of talent coming up are it will be seen as a step backwards if the team slides back in '04 and then lose Delgado from the heart of the lineup. The Jays won 86 games but that was largely thanks to Escobar joining the rotation. Sure it's not the end of the world if he leaves but it makes it that much harder to maintain the same level of performance, let alone make the necessary six to eight game improvement to compete for a playoff spot.
_Jordan - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:00 PM EST (#85523) #
I imagine you can discuss previous messages. It'd be no fun if you couldn't!

Yup. We'll modify the thread as needed over time ... if this one gets to, like, 70 or so posts, or gets unwieldy, we'll just start another one. We're not big on formalism here ... let's see how this feature evolves and we'll go from there.
Pepper Moffatt - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:14 PM EST (#85524) #
http://economics.about.com
Completely OT,

My mom was cleaning in the basement today and she found the ticket stub of the first Jays game I ever went to. Toronto 4, Milwaukee 3 on August 14, 1983. Retrosheet has the boxscore here.

Can't say that I remember anything about the game (I was six), though I do remember going to Toronto with my Dad. Anybody remember when their first Jays game was? Do you remember the game well?

Cheers,

Mike
_dp - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:30 PM EST (#85525) #
Not saying this would happen, but...

Would you trade Rios plus a pitching prospect to the Mets for Kazmir?
_A - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:40 PM EST (#85526) #
My first game was the Jays vs. Tigers. I can't give you the date or the year but I had to be at least 6 and less than 8 because I had been to the Dome before the Jays won the WS. I probably wouldn't have been to a game at that point except for that the York Board of Education offered its teachers a special group rate and my dad decided to take advantage. With the group rate we were stuck in the 200 level behind the foul pole (blocking most of left field from our view). What was even better than that was sitting next to all the other teachers in my school. The Jays won but I can't tell you the score. I attended something like 15 games before I saw the Jays lose.
_logan - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:49 PM EST (#85527) #
Would you trade Rios plus a pitching prospect to the Mets for Kazmir?

Why would anyone think of trading the consensus best outfield prospect in baseball for a pitcher who hasn't even gotten out of A-ball, let alone ADDING something to the deal?
_bird droppings - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 05:55 PM EST (#85528) #
So, how about a quick summary of the 'rumours' surrounding the Jays and who they're looking to acquire:

1. Pat Hentgen

Read this rumour on the Jays ESPN forum... so and so 'heard' on the FAN 590 (Wilner) that we've already got him and that the Jays are going to wait until post MVP (Delgado) to announce it. Contract is around 1.5 million (I'll believe it and jump for joy when I hear it).

2. Ben Sheets

Do we want him? I read that the Brewers would trade Sheets for Rios.

Yah... right.

----

That's the first few I can think of... who else has been mentioned?
_R Billie - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 06:31 PM EST (#85529) #
My understanding is the Jays balked at trading Rios and I think rightfully so. Sheets came to the majors with a lot of hype and he still probably hasn't hit his ceiling; he's been a good but not great pitcher who can work a lot of innings (provided he continues in good health) but I don't think he's the type of can't miss arm that should pry one of the best prospects in baseball. If Rios develops 30 homer power in the next couple of years to compliment his average and good defence as a 0-3 player, the Jays would look mighty silly to trade that for a #2 starter entering his arbitration years.
_Gwyn - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 08:11 PM EST (#85530) #
1. Pat Hentgen

The Sun today reported that an offer had been made to Hentgen but said nothing about it being accepted. He will be a great pickup for 1.5 million if it's true.
_mathesond - Saturday, November 15 2003 @ 09:58 PM EST (#85531) #
I saw my first Jays game was when I was 7, during the month of June in the inaugural season of '77. (I once looked up the date in either baseballreference.com or baseballlibrary.com). All I remember is the home team losing 4-0 to the mighty Cleveland Indians. I went to a handful of games in '78, my favourite memory of those was buying the scorebooks, as they featured highlights from about 40-50 games from the previous year. I was sorely disappointed when they didn't conitnue that in '79. As if watching that team wasn't bad enough!
_salamander - Sunday, November 16 2003 @ 12:43 AM EST (#85532) #
On Escobar: I think the best case scenario for the Jays is signing him for 2 years at around $10-12 million, but I don't think this is likely to happen. A lot of people seem to think that Ricciardi can pick up a few $1-3 million pitchers, but look at what happened last year: Sturze, Lidle, Tam, Creek, Reichert, Wasdin (granted, Lopez, Miller and Kershner did a great job).

Although Escobar can be inconsistent at times, overall he's been pretty solid in the rotation. I would much rather see Halladay, Escobar, and (fill in the blanks).

Realistically, I think some team will offer him 3 years at $16-20 million. But I don't think the Jays should go this high.
_Steve Z - Sunday, November 16 2003 @ 08:22 AM EST (#85533) #
I'm sure you'll find this interview with HLH, done by Adam Schefter of the Denver Post, just as amusing as I did.

Just a highlight of Doc's uncharacteristically off-the-cuff remarks:

AS: Best part of living in Toronto?

RH: It's a very clean city and it's a lot like Colorado temperature-wise. It never gets really hot during the summer and it's just nice and clean and fresh. Just a fun place to be. Never real busy. Laid back.

AS: Why do you suppose the murder rate in Canada is so low?

RH: Probably because they're all drunk and in fistfights. They go for hockey fights instead of for the violence that we see. That'd be my guess.
_dp - Sunday, November 16 2003 @ 04:39 PM EST (#85534) #
"Why would anyone think of trading the consensus best outfield prospect in baseball for a pitcher who hasn't even gotten out of A-ball, let alone ADDING something to the deal?"

Because the Jays are overloaded with OF talent and don't have much by way of top flight pitching prospects- they have some good ones, but no one with Kazmir's potential. Rios had a great season at AA, but he wasn't particularly young for the level. I think Kazmir in the Jays system would be more valuable long term considering the needs of the big league club.
_Tassle - Sunday, November 16 2003 @ 08:00 PM EST (#85535) #
If you're going by potential, I'd say Mcgowan has at least close to as high of a ceiling as Kazmir.
_Graham Hudson - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 10:52 AM EST (#85536) #

trying to fix the italics problem...
_Mick - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 11:22 AM EST (#85537) #
I saw my first Jays game when I was ... 29.

Toronto at New York in the Bronx. All I really remember about it is Tim Crabtree made his major league debut (I think) and lit up the Yankee Stadium radar gun, inaccurate as it is, to about 99.
_scout - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 01:51 PM EST (#85538) #
Not anything official but i would take Kazmir for Rios and maybe a prospect. Kazmir is going to be real special(ala McGowan). What is harder to find,quality outfield or quality pitching? Also know that the Mets brass was at several of Dunedin's games the last half and end of the season looking at a couple of our pitchers,one in particular.
Mike Green - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 02:47 PM EST (#85539) #
Rick Peterson, formerly the A's pitching coach, is now the pitching coach of the Mets. He was heavily involved in the development of Mulder, Zito, Hudson and Harden, and carefully analyzed video of each of the developing pitchers in the A's system.

Kazmir is a great pitching prospect, who hasn't pitched above single A. Normally a goodly number of such pitching prospects don't make it due to injury or declines in performance. The difference between a great single A pitching prospect and a great double A outfield prospect is huge.

However, if I were a Mets fan, I would have such confidence in Peterson that if he believes that Kazmir can be great, there is a good chance that he will be. On the other hand, if the Mets are amenable to trading him, it is reasonably likely that Peterson has spotted a flaw in his delivery that he thinks will lead to arm troubles down the road.
_Scott - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 03:44 PM EST (#85540) #
Quiroz hit homer #6 yesterday (in 18 games) . . . now one behind the league leader.
_R Billie - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 06:06 PM EST (#85541) #
Losing Peterson is a much bigger blow to the A's than losing Art Howe was. At least the Mets are spending money in smarter ways now.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 08:47 PM EST (#85542) #
http://economics.about.com
Houston re-signs Jose Vizcaino for $1.2 million and Texas signs Andy Fox to a minor league deal. Details here.

$1.2 million?!?

Cheers,

Mike
_Tassle - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 10:21 PM EST (#85543) #
Hey, the man can hit.
He just needs a few years in the weight room.
_Scott Lucas - Monday, November 17 2003 @ 10:42 PM EST (#85544) #
Houston re-signs Jose Vizcaino for $1.2 million and Texas signs Andy Fox to a minor league deal.

Amusing.

Andy Fox:
Age 32, Career OPS = .673, OPS+ = 76

Jose Vizcaino:
Age 35, Career OPS = .664, OPS+ = 76
_Brent - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 01:24 AM EST (#85545) #
It excites me to type this:

Pat Hentgen reportedly signed a one year deal with the Jays. I guess it can't hurt to have another Cy guy around. Eh?

link
_Jeff Geauvreau - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 02:55 AM EST (#85546) #
Do we have to give any draft picks up for Hentgen ?

If somebody could post a link to the 2003 Baseball free agent list with Type A,B and C for compensation draft picks.

Thanks , Jeff
_A - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 04:17 AM EST (#85547) #
I don't have a list for you but it's my understanding that because the O's declined his option, Hentgen becomes, in essence, an unrestricted free agent and no compensation is required. It's really just a great move.

For an OT Hijack, the Star is running an article this morning on the ACC losing its liquor liscense for 7-days, including one Leaf and Raptor game, along with a bunch of Disney on Ice performances. This sure seems like the system is crooked because the suspension is planned for a time that would cause MLSE the least possible damage. The Leaf game is vs Florida, the Raptors play a vile Orlando Magic squad and how many people drink at Disney on Ice? Okay, I probably don't want to know the answer to that question ;-)

In case anyone's counting, this is the ACC's second such suspension and the SkyDome is at a total of zero infractions. I see a marketing angle here, lol.
_Geoff - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 07:17 AM EST (#85548) #
http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001164.shtml

No compensation for Pat Jeff
_Lefty - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 07:24 AM EST (#85549) #
You can paint me as being thrilled by the Hentgen signing. Though I am curious how much dough is going his way. Pat was pretty dominating during the second half. Does anyone remember when the Orioles came through town late in the season and the welcome he recieved from the fans, media and particularly Doc? That series might have set the tone for this aqusition.
I wonder though if this means that JP recognises that Escobar is a goner and this was the replacement player? If he is then its not a bad choice signing Pat to a one yr. deal is low risk and should not break the budget in filling other needs. Hopefully JP is still in the Kelvim sweepstakes but if he's not then he should have sufficient financial ability to sign another Hentgen type F.A. pitcher which should class the Jays as a potential contender provided they deal with the back end of the bullpen too.
One starter one closer to go, good work.
_Geoff - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 07:42 AM EST (#85550) #
This is a great move, assuming the salary isnt out of whack (which I doubt it is)...Hentgen proved he was injury-free last year which is important. He's proved he can pitch in Skydome (unlike Lidle). He's a perfect low-cost #3 Starter, who wants to sign a 1-year deal because he's motivated to sho he deserves more money next year. There's a reason 13 teams wanted him, and there's a reason he chose the Blue JAys, and that reason has nothing to do with $$

I'm ecstatic
_lurker - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:35 AM EST (#85551) #
Great signing..it's good to see that JP went after him right away. Even if he falls to a level more mediocre than hoped for he's still going to be a great influence on the young pitchers developing in the system a la Bordick.
Pistol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:44 AM EST (#85552) #
Pat was pretty dominating during the second half.

I wonder though if this means that JP recognises that Escobar is a goner and this was the replacement player?


Hentgen wasn't dominant in the second half, he just had a low ERA.

In the 2nd half of the season, in 87 innings (13 starts) he had 5.9 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and 1.3 HR/9. Or said another way, that's essentially what Cory Lidle gave up this year for the Jays.

I can't imagine that Hentgen's signing has any impact on whether Escobar is retained. Even if Escobar was re-signed by now the Jays still had a need to fill a cheap end of the rotation player.

It's hard for any 1 year, low $ starter to be a bad signing, but I'm not overly excited about the signing (why isn't any one else picking it up?).
Craig B - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:52 AM EST (#85553) #
It will be nice to see Pat back in Toronto.

Speakibng of great Gord Ash moves, that deal for Painter, Castillo, and Matt DeWitt sure worked out, didn't it?
Pistol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:03 AM EST (#85554) #
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2003/11/18/260926.html
why isn't any one else picking it up?.

Nevermind:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2003/11/18/260926.html
_Scott - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:19 AM EST (#85555) #
The deal is reported at 1yr $2.2M . . . from ESPN. Seems reasonable to me.
_Spicol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:20 AM EST (#85556) #
Speakibng of great Gord Ash moves, that deal for Painter, Castillo, and Matt DeWitt sure worked out, didn't it?

In the same sense that the Mondesi-Wiggins deal worked out, yeah, it did.
_Jordan - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:43 AM EST (#85557) #
Sorry for the delay -- this story is now posted in its own thread. Great work, guys!
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 10:59 AM EST (#85558) #
http://economics.about.com
Completely, OT, but I figured someone here knows.

You know those "Knee Savers" that some catchers wear? Do they actually work?

I occasionally don the tools of ignorance (no jokes, please) so I'm thinking about getting a pair. At the same time, though, I don't want to blow $20 (or whatever) if they don't work.

Mike

P.S. If you want to see something truly funny, see a 6'4" 180lb guy in catchers gear.
_Steve Z - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 11:15 AM EST (#85559) #
Just a note, not even worthy of being in "hijack central" probabaly, but Dewayne (5th OF) Wise was signed by the Braves.
_Spicol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 11:44 AM EST (#85560) #
This was just announced: Chretien is being non-tendered on December 12th. No word on whether or not JP will be interested.
_Cristian - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 11:51 AM EST (#85561) #
Nah. JP looks at past performance and Chretien hasn't done anything for the past decade.
Gerry - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 11:58 AM EST (#85562) #
You know those "Knee Savers" that some catchers wear? Do they actually work?

I think they do. Basically they stop your knees from going into a full crouch. If that is a position you rarely get into anyway then there will be no benefit. If you really like to get down low then they will give you a bit of support.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 12:02 PM EST (#85563) #
I don't know how Chretien would hit with a bat in his hand, but give him an Inuit sculpture and he's set.
Named For Hank - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 12:07 PM EST (#85564) #
Wasn't that his wife who had the sculpture while he hid in the closet?

Where's she playing next year?
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 12:18 PM EST (#85565) #
http://economics.about.com
Gerry,

I do like to get low. At my height, I kind of have to. :)

I've heard the same thing from a couple other people, so I think I'll give them a try.

Cheers,

Mike
_Cristian - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 01:32 PM EST (#85566) #
For those that have a BP online pass, there is a Q&A with Dodgers assistant GM Kim Ng. I do not have the pass myself so I'm curious as to whether Bill Singer is discussed in the Q&A. With all do regard to the fair dealing provision of the Copyright Act, can anyone enlighten Batter's Box with what Kim Ng discusses?
_Mick - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 01:37 PM EST (#85567) #
Interesting trade today ...

Terrence Long and Ramon Hernandez for Mark Kotsay.

Initial reactions:
- Jason Kendall won't be going home to San Diego
- The A's had to give up Hernandez for Kotsay to get the Padres to take Long.
- Two All-Star catchers have changed teams this winter already ... and neither one is named "Rodriguez" or "Piazza."
_Spicol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 02:32 PM EST (#85568) #
That's a little wierd to me. Kotsay is pricey and hits no better than Hernandez.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 03:10 PM EST (#85569) #
I don't understand the financial side of the trade, but I have a possible rationale on the baseball side. Kotsay had a back injury, including some time on the DL, and performed below his usual levels in the 1st half of 2003, but reverted to his 2000-2002 performance norms in the second half (.290/.360/.438). He plays pretty good defence, and can hit a little better than that if you sit him against tough lefties.

Does this mean that Adam Melhuse is Oakland's everyday catcher next year? If you look at his long-term record in the high minors for many years and in the majors last year, you might come to the conclusion that he can play as well as Hernandez. Here's his record: http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?2332.
Still, he's 31, and this would be his first regular work.

If that is the case, then more power to Melhuse. Thoughts anyone?
_A - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 03:59 PM EST (#85570) #
You know those "Knee Savers" that some catchers wear? Do they actually work?

Mike, it's apparently like sitting on a stool, if they're sized properly. That said, I've played all of two innings behind the plate my entire life. There's always that great excuse: oh, you don't have a lefty decker? too bad, I was gonna volunteer to catch.
_R Billie - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 04:05 PM EST (#85571) #
Gammons also speculated today that the A's want to upgrade one more outfield spot and that they love Bobby Kielty. Ted Lilly is expendable for them. If Toronto adds Kevin Cash to the deal to help the A's get by without Hernandez then maybe they can bring back Lilly and a decent starting prospect or even Michael Rouse since he's making that Lidle deal look not so good; the Jays could use another option at short. Have Myers and Wilson hold the fort for another year until Quiroz is ready for full-time work. If they can get Lilly in addition to Hentgen AND bring back Escobar well then now you have a rotation to get a little excited about. They'd probably still have enough money to sign whoever's left in the closer derby near the end.

I think many people have been projecting a Kielty for Lilly off-season trade as far back as the time Kielty was acquired so it wouldn't surprise me to see something along those lines go down.
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 04:08 PM EST (#85572) #
http://economics.about.com
Mike, it's apparently like sitting on a stool, if they're sized properly.

Wow, that's cool. I ought to try them, though.

That said, I've played all of two innings behind the plate my entire life.

I think I played all of one. It was when I was 14, and our regular catcher missed the game because he was a batboy for the AA London Tigers and they played at the same time as us. That wasn't a problem until our backup got hurt.

I catch a few times a year when we're playing pickup games. A buddy of mine wants me to catch for his fastpitch team next year. It should be interesting. From what I hear they're pretty lousy, so I shouldn't look too out of place. Atleast I'm more suited to it than playing shortstop, which I did this year for a beer league slow pitch team.

I can't wait until spring!!

Mike
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 04:09 PM EST (#85573) #
http://economics.about.com
Err, that should be "I ought to try them, then".

Staring at Powerpoint all day has rotted my brain.

Mike
_A - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 04:52 PM EST (#85574) #
Don't worry, using Powerpoint will rot the brains in your audience ;-)
Coach - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 05:23 PM EST (#85575) #
If they can get Lilly in addition to Hentgen AND bring back Escobar well then now you have a rotation to get a little excited about.

R Billie, you've got that right. I rambled on about the Lilly-Kielty rumour in another thread, but your idea about Cash is interesting. The Jays could always go back to Frankencatcher for a while and bring Quiroz up for the second half.
_Jordan - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 06:01 PM EST (#85576) #
I really can't see Escobar returning: he'll want at last three years, which he'll certainly receive; I can even see more than one team offering him four, if that's what it takes. He would probably accept less money for a longer contract, but he won't take less money and a short contract, which is I think what the Jays have offered. The team will probably have to set its sights elsewhere.

The remaining pitchers on the market appear to be #3 starters or less (John Thomson, Miguel Batista, Brian Anderson), or current and former aces out of the Jays' price range (Greg Maddux, Kevin Millwood, Bartolo Colon). I have a feeling that next year's #2 starter is going to arrive not by free agency, but by substantial trade.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 06:22 PM EST (#85577) #
In my opinion, Miguel Batista could reasonably be expected to have an ERA under 4 in the Skydome based on his past performance, and bearing in mind the park and the Fighting Jays' defence. With the offensive support that they can provide, this might very well translate to a 18-11 record, say. Batista is in my view a significantly better pitcher than either Thomson or Anderson, and well worth an extra $1.5-$2 million per year.

I'd be content to open the season with a rotation of Halladay, Batista, Hentgen, Hendrickson and Towers.
_R Billie - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 06:41 PM EST (#85578) #
I would make Batista my Plan A alternative to re-signing Escobar. If the Jays can get him for somewhat less than his $5 million option it's probably the better value. Then if they trade for a starter (like Lilly) who can push Hendrickson into a battle with Towers for the fifth spot, I think they'll have done good. Assuming they retain enough cash to sign a couple of good relievers I think they'll have done great.
_Jack Foley - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 07:28 PM EST (#85579) #
LILLY FOR KIELTY IS DONE
_Ken - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 07:48 PM EST (#85580) #
Espn is reporting that the lilly kielty trade is done.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1665130
Pistol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:11 PM EST (#85581) #
I'd be content to open the season with a rotation of Halladay, Batista, Hentgen, Hendrickson and Towers.

I agree on Batista, and now Lilly would fill in the Hendrickson or Towers spot.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:23 PM EST (#85582) #
I second (or, by now third I guess) the motion that Batista should be plan B if Escobar falls through (and Thomson plan C). I'd be looking at 3 yrs at 4, 5, and 6 million for Kelvim, two at 3.5 and 4.5 for Miguel Batista, and 2 yrs at 2.5 and 3.5 for Thomson. Anyone think I'm seriously low-balling these guys or overpricing them? Anybody think there's any real chance of the Jays picking one of them up (other than Kelvim...there's obviously still a chance there).
Pistol - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 08:55 PM EST (#85583) #
I'd say Escobar is going to do better than 4,5,6. I'd agree otherwise, although Thomson could end up being a lot cheaper than that.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:01 PM EST (#85584) #
Pistol, I honestly haven't seen Thomson's final '03 numbers (though I have an idea). I can just remember liking him beoroe that and hoping the Jays would pick him up pre '03.
_Andrew Edwards - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:30 PM EST (#85585) #
Haven't confirmed it yet but word on Primer is that JP traded Keilty and a PTBNL for Lilly.

If so, awesome. Just wicked cool. Amazing move.
_Andrew Edwards - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:31 PM EST (#85586) #
Confirmed:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1665130
_Andrew Edwards - Tuesday, November 18 2003 @ 09:34 PM EST (#85587) #
Definitely a win-win trade, in typical JP - Beane style.

Halladay / Lilly / Escobar / Hentgen / Hendrickson is a contender's staff, with a big offence behind it.

Oakland trades from strength (pitching) to get badly needed outfield help.
_Scott Lucas - Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 02:13 PM EST (#85588) #
Astros resigned Brad Ausmus.

Two year deal for the man who batted .229/.303/.291 last year. $$$ undisclosed but presumably for a wee bit less than the $5.5 million he made last year.

With Vizcaino and Ausmus locked up, the Stros have all but guaranteed a division title.

Or not.
_Ben - Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 02:28 PM EST (#85589) #
Mariners just signed Ibanez, he goes back to his roots and rejoins his first club. If the A's didn't need to add a bat before they definatly do now
_Scott Lucas - Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 03:07 PM EST (#85590) #
I can't find it now, but earlier I'd read some poor sap of a columnist explain that Seattle never should've let Ibanez go.

Puh-leaaze. After the 2000 season, Ibanez was a 28-year-old with a career line of .241/.295/.383. I remember Rob Neyer excoriating the Royals for giving him playing time in 2001. Nobody knew he'd hit this well.

Thing is, in 2003 he had a rather modest .799 OPS in a terrific hitter's park and still hasn't figured out lefties. And Seattle will lose their #1 pick in next year's draft as compensation. Why not wait until December 8th when he's not offered arbitration? Are there that many teams clamoring to throw $13 million at a so-so OF/DH?

Seattle overreached badly, in my opinion. Let the Bill Bavasi reign begin!
Mike Green - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:11 PM EST (#85591) #
For those interested in the statistical evaluation of defence, I urge a visit with Michael Humprheys' latest installment on Defensive Regression Analysis at baseballprimer. com. It was invigorating to see a statistical acceptance of the fact that Jesse Barfield was indeed far and away the best defensive rightfielder of the period 1974-2001, and right there with Clemente as the best of all time.
_Ryan01 - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:18 PM EST (#85592) #
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/transactions/minors.jsp
Hijack:

The Jays have set their minor league rosters:
Judging from who was sent to Syracuse and who was noticeably not assigned to Syracuse, it looks like Gassner!, Godwin, Reimers, Nin, Peralta, Negron and Bauer will all be left OFF the roster. McGowan, Griffin, Harper and Hanson will be ADDED to the 40 man. No word on Arnold, Gross and Sequea yet since they were already at Syracuse. Arnold and Gross seem like looks and Sequea looks like a longshot.
_Drummond - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 03:25 PM EST (#85593) #
Dont know if this was posted already. Help in voting for the name of the Manchester team!

http://nhbaseball.silvertech.com/agree.asp

(pretty nice prize for someone voting in the final stage)
Gerry - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 03:38 PM EST (#85594) #
Judging from who was sent to Syracuse and who was noticeably not assigned to Syracuse, it looks like Gassner!, Godwin, Reimers, Nin, Peralta, Negron and Bauer will all be left OFF the roster.

None of these players have played in the majors. They don't have to be added to the 40 man roster until certain dates have passed. If you were drafted from College you have at least three years. From high school you have more.

Gassner and Godwin were drafted from College in 2001 so I think they are OK. Nin and Peralta have 2 and 3 years experience so they are OK. Negron would be OK too, he was drafted from HS in 2000.

Reimers is available but would be a long shot to be drafted in the rule 5.
Mike Green - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 03:57 PM EST (#85595) #
Can someone please explain again the rules and time frames for the minor league Rule V draft? The one that the Jays acquired Sequea in last year.

Thanks.
Craig B - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 04:19 PM EST (#85596) #
Rule V Draft, Minor League Portion. It applies to players who are not on the reserve rosters of their AAA and AA minor league affiliates. A player can (I understand) be on the reserve roster of a minor league club without actually being assigned there.

Players who are not on that reserve roster are eligible for selection where they meet time requirements. I think that for the AAA phase of the draft, it's one less year than the major league phase. Don't quote me on that.

Once in a while, an actual player gets picked in one of these. The Padres actually got Wiki Gonzalez in the AA phase of the minor league draft, where the price is $4,000.
_Ryan01 - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:13 PM EST (#85597) #
Gerry, any player drafted over 18 has three years before needing protection and players drafted at 18 or under have four years. Since players start playing in the same year they are drafted, 2001 draftees have just completed their third season (2001, 2002, 2003). So all college players from 2001 (Arnold, Griffin, Gross, Godwin, Gassner) and all high school draftees from 2000 (McGowan, Negron) are eligible for the rule 5 draft.
_Ryan01 - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:20 PM EST (#85598) #
PS.
Nin and Peralta both had a couple years playing in the Dominican after they signed which counts towards the number of seasons... so they are eligible as well. Basically anyone who is eligible for the major league portion has either been assigned to AA or AAA or will be added to the major league roster.
_Jordan - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:34 PM EST (#85599) #
Once the major-league 40-man roster is set, I'll start a new thread for that subject.
_Ryan01 - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 08:28 PM EST (#85600) #
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/transactions/minors.jsp
It's official...Rotoworld reports that Jason Arnold, DJ Hanson, Jesse Harper, Dustin McGowan, Jorge Sequea, John-Ford Griffin and Gabe Gross were added. So the 40 man looks like this:

1. Vinny Chulk
2. Bob File
3. Roy Halladay
4. Mark Hendrickson
5. Pat Hentgen
6. Jason Kershner
7, Ted Lilly
8. Aquilino Lopez
9. Justin Miller
10.Trever Miller
11.Cliff Politte
12.Francisco Rosario
13.Josh Towers
14.Pete Walker
15.Dustin McGowan
16.Jason Arnold
17.Jesse Harper
18.DJ Hanson

19.Kevin Cash
20.Greg Myers
21.Tom Wilson
22.Guillermo Quiroz

23.Dave Berg
24.Howie Clark
25.Carlos Delgado
26.Eric Hinske
27.Orlando Hudson
28.Josh Phelps
29.Simon Pond
30.Chris Woodward
31. Jorge Sequea

32.Frank Catalanotto
33.Reed Johnson
34.Alexis Rios
35.Vernon Wells
36.Jayson Werth
37.John-Ford Griffin
38.Gabriel Gross
Mike Green - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 08:55 PM EST (#85601) #
It is indeed a surprise that Gassner would not be protected.
_Ryan01 - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 09:02 PM EST (#85602) #
Agreed. Gassner's said to have fringy stuff, and he wasn't a particularly good college player. But his numbers ever since he hit the pros have been nothing but excellent.
_R Billie - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 09:49 PM EST (#85603) #
That would seem to suggest two spaces for free agents and/or Rule V selections. Unless a trade is made of course. Looks like Gassner, Godwin, and Nin are exposed. Those guys might not make it through the Rule V and two PTBNLs. Godwin in particular is the type of toolsy, speedy outfielder that many teams like.
_Jordan - Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 10:06 PM EST (#85604) #
Ryan, thanks for the update! I've created a new thread and moved the existing comments there.
_Jordan - Friday, November 21 2003 @ 10:06 AM EST (#85605) #
Hijack Central 2 is now up and running.
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