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Fans of the late, great Antonio Prohias will surely remember his classic Spy vs. Spy features in Mad Magazine, back when it was a great publication rather than a bad SNL ripoff. Although there won't be any trick missiles, hidden pistols or remote-controlled-dressed-up-as-a-lady explosive devices in tonight's game, this is still a classic matchup: Roy Halladay versus Pedro Martinez, the young gunslinger up against the old master. The pitching duel alone makes this one a must-see game. But there's more to it than that.

For the Red Sox, as pointed out in our excellent Guest Preview by Tim Daloiso of Red Sox Times, the Bostonians are coming off a stirring series victory over the loathed Yankees, and must guard against the inevitable letdown that comes from facing a less threatening opponent, not to mention going from raucous Fenway to the funereal Skydome. The Red Sox must be thrilled to be as competitive as they have been without Nomar, Trot and B.K, but that stretch of good fortune could end at any time. They also must recognize, if only to themselves, that they're facing a dangerous opponent tonight.

For the Blue Jays, this isn't funny anymore. Winless in six tries at home and 3-9 on the young season, even this upbeat young club has to be feeling the first gnawings of desperation. There's no such thing as a must-win series in April (have we said that already this year?), but the Jays at the very least cannot afford to be swept at home again, or even the ADD-afflicted Toronto fans (most of whom will be cheering and groaning throughout the game as the dispatches from the Air Canada Centre roll in) will take notice. Most observers agree that the Jays are a Carlos Delgado swing away from busting out of this increasingly ugly slump, but who knows what it will take -- a fastball too far up and in on a Blue Jay hitter crowding the plate?

This ballclub is overdue for an explosion, and while it could happen tonight, the odds aren't great: Pedro is still Pedro, no matter his early-season struggles, and the Jays have fashioned a recent history of terrible performances in front of large crowds (which, thanks to the heavily hyped pitching matchup and the $2 tickets, and despite Game 7, should be the case tonight). Look and listen for the Cheer Club and the Bauxite Brigade on the 500-level -- if the game goes poorly, they may be all you hear at the Dome -- and cross your fingers that this streak will send sooner rather than later, and who knows? Maybe even on Cy Young Night in Toronto.
Game 13: Cy Versus Cy | 75 comments | Create New Account
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_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#71367) #
Strike out, and this game is underway. Back to the 'standard' line up tonight.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#71368) #
The Jays have held the lead first in just three of their games so far this season, winning two of those. In other words, they've been playing from behind 10 of 13 times.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#71369) #
Being behind so often and so early is just demoralizing.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#71370) #
That was pretty scary how easy Pedro made that look. Eleven pitches for Pedro through one inning, not a good way to try and tire him out.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#71371) #
Man, this is quite a few fly balls so far for Halladay.
_braden - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#71372) #
For those watching it (as opposed to those of us at the library, pretending to study for their exams), just how empty does the Dome look?
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:25 PM EDT (#71373) #
It looks and sounds like it usually does: cavernous and quiet.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#71374) #
Doc strands a lead off double with some exceptional pitching. Maybe he'll get some run support today, too.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#71375) #
Watching someone else strand a runner at 3rd with less than 2 out can be satisfying too!:)
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#71376) #
Delgado with a lead-off double Nice Start.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#71377) #
I should say that the Dome has either filled a bit or I was a little presumptive in my comment that it's empty. The attendance doesn't look too bad.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#71378) #
Then Phelps strikes out on three pitches. At least make contact and move the runner over.

And Hinkske with a shallow flyball on first pitch - great.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#71379) #
Lead off double stays stranded at second. What can you say? Only Cash put up even a small fight.
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#71380) #
The following is a public service announcement from The Original Ryan:

If the Jays-Red Sox game becomes too frustrating for some of you to watch, the semifinal of the 1996 men's World Curling Championships between Canada and Norway is on ESPN Classic Canada right now.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#71381) #
Halladay is pitching amazing. he can strand another lead off double if he gets Manny. But the offense HAS to do something - this is getting so freakin frustrating.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#71382) #
More outstanding pitching by Roy to strand another runner on 3rd with less than two outs. However, he has thrown 49 pitches through 3 innings and most of those have been in tough situations. Unless Roy can cruise through a few innings he may have trouble going more than 6-7 innings tonight.
Thomas - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#71383) #
Is this game on the radio anywhere?
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#71384) #
Varitek is showing why we need Rios in Left Field, he's making the Cat look foolish.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#71385) #
The game should be on www.fan590.com
_Tim D - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#71386) #
http://www.musingsfromrsn.com/redsoxtimes
A little bad luck for Halladay on that balk. Pokey is an easy out to get out of the inning.
_braden - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#71387) #
At least the balk didn't come in the bottom of the 14th like poor Jason Duchscherer last night.
_braden - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#71388) #
oops, I mean Justin Duchscherer.
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#71389) #
Jeff Stoughton and Team Canada just stole a point and now lead Norway's Eigel Ramsfjell 3-0 after four ends in the semifinal of the 1996 World Curling Championships.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#71390) #
The way Delgado is hitting is extremely encouraging, but it's really tough to score with two hits through four.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#71391) #
Delgado looks to be getting out of his slump - but you need more than just 2 hits in your whole lineup to score runs. This is getting rediculous. Put me in Tosca, I can't watch this garbage for too much longer.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#71392) #
Actually before we replace the Cat in left, we should get rid of Woodward at short - at times it seems like we don't even have a shortstop.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#71393) #
OH MY GOD. We really can't play defense. Is that Hinkske of Lalime out there at 3rd? I mean come on, that wen't right through him!!!!!
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:14 PM EDT (#71394) #
Corection "that WENT right through him"
_albatross - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#71395) #
is it just me, or are there more and more new names here at da box- i see were growing
_albatross - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#71396) #
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
leafs lead 3-0
!!!!!!!!!!! GO LEAFS GO
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#71397) #
Canada just stole another two points in the 1996 curling semifinal. 5-0 Canada after five ends.

Oh, and some hockey game is also going on right now. The blue team leads the red-and-black team 3-1.
_aqlbatorss - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#71398) #
3-1 ????
who ust scored?
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#71399) #
I'd like Tosca to consider pulling Roy after 5. Roy's thrown a lot of pitches in tough situations tonight. There is zero chance of the offense coming back against Pedro tonight so why not take the opportunity to ease back on Roy's workload.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#71400) #
It's only three runs, Nigel, and I suspect the Jays have a reasonable chance of at least getting close. I'm not sure whether I disagree with you about pulling Roy, though.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#71401) #
I'll whip my baseball at the TV, if they don't score Reed on a one out triple.

Well, I doubt I will, but you get my point.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#71402) #
OH MY GOD - All you have to do is hit it in the FREAKIN outfield or at 2nd. What is up with THIS!!!!!

They had a leadoff double, they could of moved the runner over and drove him in on a flyball.

And now they mess up a one out triple

It VERY easily could've been 3-2.
_Nigel - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#71403) #
Tosca got Roy out one inning too late in my opinion but at least he didn't try and squeeze another inning out of him.

Jack I wish I could share your optimism. Watching the Jays, they just don't look like they can come back. I don't know why but this team looked defeated from the first inning on.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#71404) #
Nigel, I agree totally that this team *looks* defeated, which is something that we rarely saw last year (even in April and August). And if I were a betting man I would not bet that the Jays will come back---I'm simply suggesting it's possible.

Here comes the bullpen shuffle.
_ODAWG - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#71405) #
Tosca's job is in serious jeopardy if they continue to lose in such pathetic fashion.
_Cristian - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#71406) #
The miserable batting has forced me to switch to CBC. The blue team sure seems to do a ton of clutching and grabbing. The red team can't even skate out there. The show is called Hockey Night in Canada. Strange, I've seen hockey before--there is speed, crisp passing and players are allowed to skate. What I'm witnessing is no red player being allowed to skate without a blue player jabbing a stick in his feet or in his gut. That's not hockey. What I find strange is that I would assume that people in Toronto would know hockey. I guess years of futility mean that they'll put up with anything resembling the sport if it means them getting a chance to win a cup.
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#71407) #
Thank you, Kevin Cash

Finally someone drives in a run in an easy running scoring situation.
_Shane - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#71408) #
Jeff Horigan of the Boston Herald was on Boston Radio's WEEI pregame earlier this evening, and exclaimed that if Boston were to win tonight (off Halladay) the Red Sox will sweep the series. Better make the uniforms all black, because the Blue Jays apparently don't intimidate anyone.
_NDG - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#71409) #
You know it Christian. I used to be a big Leaf fan, but I am also a hockey fan (which oddley enough isn't the same thing), and I can't in good conscience support the type of play the Leafs use. If you think this is bad, imagine the upcoming Leafs-Flyers series. Uck.
_JackFoley - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#71410) #
Great stuff from Delgado today.

/trying to stay positive
_albatross - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#71411) #
leafs lead 4-1!!!!!!!!!!
GO LEAFS GO!!!
If anyone knows of any good leafs message board sites, let me know. That way I can stop annoying everybody here, and leave y'all in your misery. And did I mention
GO LEAFS GO!
GO LEAFS GO!
_albatross - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#71412) #
leafs lead 4-1!!!!!!!!!!
GO LEAFS GO!!!
If anyone knows of any good leafs message board sites, let me know. That way I can stop annoying everybody here, and leave y'all in your misery. And did I mention
GO LEAFS GO!
GO LEAFS GO!
_albatross - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#71413) #
Sorry bout the double post
_Fozzy - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#71414) #
Amazing, a 9-inning baseball game concludes before a 60 minute hockey game.
_Gwyn - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#71415) #
albatross: try penaltybox.com - the game thread for tonight had about 500 posts in it lasted I looked, should be enough to keep you busy :)
_Cristian - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#71416) #
NDG,

To be fair, Ottawa is a pretty boring team to watch as well. All that offence and Jacques Martin stifles their creativity and forces them to trap. I suppose if you keep your own team from scoring, it benefits the team when they negotiate contracts in the offseason.

"Sorry superstar. You only scored 15 goals instead of 40 so we can't give you the paycheque you deserve."

It only blows up in Ottawa's face in games like this where they happen to be down a few goals and don't remember how to skate and be creative with the puck.

I've grown up in Edmonton and I've heard the Coliseum boo the Oilers when they start boring everyone with the trap. I've always said that I'd rather lose 6-5 than win 1-0. I know it's glib and many people will disagree (look who's the only Canadian team not in the playoffs) but it's the trapping, clutching, grabbing, horrible ice, hockey that we see now that has made me turn away from the sport.
_Fozzy - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#71417) #
Darn, the Leafs won; too bad cause I'm pretty sick and tired of every sports network, news network and newspaper getting a proverbial hard-on for this overrated team (Can anyone say Yanks on skates)? At least if the Sens won we wouldn't hear 90% of the hoopola that is now destined to spread into the collective psyche.
_Fozzy - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#71418) #
And as I type this, we see a cut from the Sportsnet broadcast short so we can go right away to the panel of idiots sitting at a roundtable talking about a hockey game that has already happened. I don't mean to sound bitter, but not everyone in this country has a sick infatuation with the sport, and some of us actually kinda don't like having it shoved down our throats all the time; can you say 'overanalysis'?
_braden - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#71419) #
Though I am a huge Leafs fan, I'm a Jays fan first and foremost. One good thing with the Leafs now alive for at least another couple of weeks is the fact that most of the city will keep ignoring the Jays through this slump. Hopefully by the time the Leafs are eliminated, the Jays will have found their bats.
_NDG - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#71420) #
Oh I know it's not just the Leafs, it is the game in general. I guess I blame the mid 90's Stars and Devils for 'revolutionizing' hockey the way they did, and the way the Leafs play now is the embodiment of that style of play.

Overall though, there's gonna be a couple of great series in the next round, Calgary-Detroit and Tampy-Montreal should both be pretty exciting. If Colorado can force the tempo in their series, it could be pretty good as well (but we know San Jose will try to slow that to a crawl). Toronto - Philly though will be awful (I think). I think the Flyers are worse than the Leafs. All kinds of offensive talent yet they play a very slow, methodical, stifling game.
_Jurgen - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#71421) #
Anyone else (slightly) concerned by the number of balls the Bosox hit in the air against Roy? I'd gladly give up some of those Ks if Roy was back to form giving up a ton of soft grounders to Hudson.
Craig B - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#71423) #
We don't have Primeys here, but if we did, I'd nominate The Original Ryan for his updates from the 1996 World Curling Championship semifinal.

Thanks to all who turned out for our Night At The Dome tonight. It wasn't as good a game as the scoreline indicates, but seeing Pedro and Doc was a different kind of awesome.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#71424) #
Though I'm a true diehard Leafs fan, I thought the same thing as craig in regards to the curling posts...
_GregH - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#71425) #
not everyone in this country has a sick infatuation with the sport

Right on Braden! When I was a kid (I was 13 when the Leafs last won the Stanley Cup) although I loved baseball first and foremost I also loved hockey. Over the years and especially with the way the game is played now, I've come to view hockey as a brutal game played by brutes. Although the players may be fine men off the ice, as soon as they put on skates, they seen to descend a few levels on the evolutionary scale. And many of the fans seem to view the brutality as the most enjoyable part of the game.

No one could be more dedicated to hockey than Ken Dryden and even he realizes the game is in crisis. As he said in a speech on the East Coast recently, the game is in danger of becoming nothing more than an "extreme sport".

My sons (8 & 9) play baseball but do not play hockey and have no real interest in it, outside of ball hockey on the street. Any time I've put it on TV, they have been pretty much grossed out by all the crashing and bashing.

What makes me the most nuts is that, if you tell anyone in the GTA that you don't particularly like or follow hockey, you are viewed as almost unpatriotic or somehow not Canadian.

I remember how in the 60's and 70's, with typical Canadian smugness, we used to look at the urban violence in the U.S. and call America a "sick society". Today I think hockey has become a "sick sport". If it is "the Canadian game", maybe we should be ashamed of ourselves. Not too many years ago there was a story of a Russian basketball coach visiting Canada, who was taken by his hosts to a hockey game with two Canadian teams playing. His only comment (obviously not realizing that many of the players were not Canadian) was "You Canadians don't like each other very much, do you?"

Sorry about the rant; maybe I've just been hockeyed to death by listening to The Fan 590 too much when I'm on the road for my job! :)
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#71426) #
Bertuzzi, sums up what I think of Hockey. - well I don't think its that bad .. yet.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#71427) #
Who kicked Otis Nixon in the face that time?
_Spartan - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#71428) #
I don't know, but you have to admit that a league that promotes fist fighting by not punishing it enough is very very different than a game like Baseball in regards to violence.

the NFL is pretty rough, but you don't see people taking off their helmets and bashing people with it. In fact I was in North Ireland watching a Rugby game, and their was a bit of a brawl and the whole stadium booed the players. I don't see why hockey fans enjoy violence so much.
Named For Hank - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#71429) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Hey, where were the guys? Four of us were up in 528 around 7:30 and couldn't find you guys for a couple of innings so we snuck down to behind the plate.

Being there, I didn't have anything like the negative feelings I'm reading here. This was a much better game from the Jays than I've seen pretty much all season. And Adams vs. Manny, man, that was worth every second of being there, especially Cash's pat on Manny's back in the middle of the scrum, like a condescending "there there, big fella".
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#71430) #
Thank you, Craig. I would also like to thank the utterly incompetent Blue Jays offence for giving me this opportunity.

Canada beat Norway 7-1, by the way. It was truly an exciting game, even though the outcome was decided eight years ago. You're all going to have to wait for another night of ineptitude by the Blue Jays to find out how Canada did against Scotland in the final.

Either that, or you can just look it up for yourselves.
_Ryan Day - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#71431) #
Just got back from the game, and I wasn't at all disappointed. So the Jays didn't hit so well -- they were facing Pedro Martinez! Pedro seems to have turned into Greg Maddux, now: He can't throw the ball past hitters any more, but he can still put it exactly where he wants to.

How can you complain about a game with two triples and the fantastic Manny-Terry confrontation? Delgado had some good swings, Tosca didn't go crazy with the bullpen (though I question the IBB to Bellhorn), Adams was fantastic... So they lost. It happens.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, April 20 2004 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#71432) #
Hey, where were the guys? Four of us were up in 528 around 7:30 and couldn't find you guys for a couple of innings so we snuck down to behind the plate.

We were in section 518. The statement about how tonights tickets were for section 528 is no longer operative.
Craig B - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#71433) #
Yes, and I won't apologize for being stupid. I'm just stupid, is all.

Next time I'll get a competent person to organize this. :)
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 12:11 AM EDT (#71434) #
It was a good game tonight, prolly their best loss of the season; they were in it the whole time, and now that I think it over, a couple of bounces on close fair/foul balls and the balk really made the difference today.

And I gotta give it up to Carlos tonight, he seemed to have his stroke back; it looked smooth tonight, and he got some good hacks (and some bad luck) at the plate today. All in all though, it wasn't meant to be, and Pedro's tailing fastball is just mean; c'mon, that thing moves half a foot backwards into the strike zone!

Cerrutti summed it up nicely when he said that Pedro could be throwing 80mph and still dominate with the kind of control he had today, and when he said that Pedro has a knack for throwing the exact opposite of what the batter thinks is coming, everytime.

It's off-topic, but maybe people can help. How the heck can Keith Foulke be so effective? That man is just an enigma to me. I mean, he throws a 90mph fastball with no movement, throws only 2 pitches, and his delivery gives the hitters a good view of the pitch. I just don't get how he's been so good for so long...
_rodent - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#71435) #
Boston and Pedro are a lot to handle, it's true. I hope the Red Sox find Lilly frustrating. And good luck to the the Jays fishing for Wakefield.

I'm disappointed at not realizing--yet--the promise of the preseason. By the time Boston is back in the middle of May, proceeding at the same rate of exchange, the Jays would be something like 8-23, and I think we would be looking at more than a slow start. I'm not at my best either. Must..go..to..game.
_Niles - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 05:09 AM EDT (#71436) #
The next time Pookey Reese tries to block a sign from Cash, Halladay should knock him on his ass.
Craig B - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#71437) #
It's off-topic, but maybe people can help. How the heck can Keith Foulke be so effective? That man is just an enigma to me. I mean, he throws a 90mph fastball with no movement, throws only 2 pitches, and his delivery gives the hitters a good view of the pitch. I just don't get how he's been so good for so long...

It gets back, in my mind, to how pitching - for the guys who can do it well - is such a simple exercise. Throw the ball to where you want it.

Look at Foulke's numbers, because they are very illustrative of his pitching.

First, Foulke only throws two pitches, but he is more effective for it because he has good control of them and changes speeds on them. Foulke just doesn't walk *anybody*, and for a pitcher who almost always comes into the game with the bases empty (Foulke gets used most of the time in the traditional closer pattern, one inning and done, though Francona mauy change that) that's a very big factor. So Foulke doesn't walk a lot of guys at all. He doesn't get to 3-2 a lot, and when he does he can throw strikes to force the player to swing and put the ball in play or miss it.

Second, if you have to throw only two pitches, one has to be a terrific pitch. For Foulke it's the changeup, which is his out pitch. Foulke's change is good enough to fool guys who think it's coming and sit on it, because it really looks like the fastball. It makes them swing and miss, and only by making guys swing and miss (or going 0-2 a lot) do you rack up high strikeout totals. Foulke gets to 0-2 and 1-2 a lot because of his control, and has a swing-and-miss pitch, so he gets his fair share of strikeouts, even more than his fair share.

Foulke's drawback is the typical drawback of a player who puts the ball in the strike zone with a straight fastball - he gets belted sometimes. His home run totals are pretty high for a pitcher of his caliber.

I think he's been lucky in some of his good years with his hit totals as well. His odd-numbered years (1999, 2001, 2003) where he's been particularly effective look a slight bit odd, with fewer hits allowed than I would have expected. He may be benefitting from the change there too as well. Is he viewed as a really good fielder? I don't know, and I've never noticed, but that could help.

Basically, Foulke doesn't give the ball in the hitter's area too often, he forces batters to swing, and he has a very missable pitch. Fastball/change pitchers hang by a thin thread generaly, because once the fastball can't bust guys (90 is enough) they sit on it and you can't throw 20 changeups in an inning. But as long as you have a fastball that can jam a guy and a change that is indistinguishable from it, you can get guys out.
Craig B - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#71438) #
Incidentally, Satchel Paige was a fastball/change pitcher (not a traditional one - the hesitation pitch was his change) who could throw ten strikes over a matchbook. And that's it. He had *no* breaking ball. And he's in the Hall, won about a million games and was also a superb relief pitcher until he was at least 46.
Dave Till - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#71439) #
I was at the game last night. Blah. A few points follow.

Foulke has an odd delivery. He bends his wrist back as he winds up, which makes his release point harder to pick up.

I was pleasantly surprised to see how well Cat goes back on the ball in left field. He's got more than enough range to handle left, but he doesn't have much of an arm: the Sox went first-to-third on him with two out, which is an "in your face!" baserunning move.

The balk took the wind out of the Jays' sails. That was cruel (though probably the correct call).

Woody isn't hitting, and he isn't fielding. Yurgh.

Lopez probably should purchase a road map of upstate New York, as I think he will need it soon.

Delgado snapped out of his slump last night. His most impressive effort didn't show up in the box score: he lined a foul shot off the second deck that got out of there in a hurry.

Overall: the Jays are obviously extremely discouraged, as well as a bit unlucky. It'll only take a couple of good outings to get them back on track, but I suspect that that won't happen until they get on the road. I fear a Bosox sweep, which will put them at 3-12.

This slump is a test of Tosca's managerial ability: what this team needs is to loosen up, and hopefully he can figure out how to make them relax.
_Jacko - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#71440) #

Lopez probably should purchase a road map of upstate New York, as I think he will need it soon.


Agreed. He needs to go back to the minors and figure out how to get lefthanded hitters out. He looked utterly helpless against Varitek last night.

Who gets the call? Haines and Matos have been pretty good. Baker and Miller have been decent, but should not come up unless they're being given a rotation slot.
_#2JBrumfield - Wednesday, April 21 2004 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#71441) #
I was kind of hoping Adams' brushback pitch on Ramirez would've woken the Jays offense up a little but they really didn't put up much of a fight in the 9th. This game really illustrated the difference between the BoSox and the Jays. Boston was pretty adept at moving runners over in the 2nd and 3rd innings and even though, they didn't score those runs from 3rd base, they made Halladay work whereas Martinez hardly broke a sweat. It was good to see Delgado get it going again with a couple of hits and he hit the ball hard on his final at-bat. Cash put up a couple of decent AB's against Pedro, getting a sac fly when I thought for sure the Jays were going to strand yet another triple. Adams was solid in relief and I give him credit for not backing down on Ramirez, a guy I don't want to see in a dark alley. It'll be interesting to see if the brushback pitch will carry over to the rest of the series when you consider De Los Santos brushed back Ortiz, I believe it was, in the 7th.
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