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There's a gun in your hand
And it's pointing at your head.


Okay, it's not that bad. But sheer frustration was the order of the day for the Blue Jays and their fans, as a feel-good victory turned into a tear-your-hair-out loss on a ninth-inning grand slam. No doubt the Jays’ on-field and front-office personnel feel worse about this than anyone else. But the vultures are circling:

Mark Zwolinski: “[O]wnership has relegated some excellent talent to mediocrity by surrounding it with low-priced, leftover players.”

Richard Griffin: “It adds up to a team that has not progressed from a year ago. … The train has fallen off the tracks.”

Steve Simmons: “The problems Tosca has are many, not the least of which is holding on to his job. One day, the Jays can't hit. One day, they can't pitch. Most days, they can't play defence. Some days they have starting pitchers. Some days they have relievers. Rarely do they have both.”

Jeff Blair: “’I'm not going to make an emotional decision right now,’" said Tosca, sounding like a man wondering how many more decisions, emotional or otherwise, he'll get to make.”

The prevailing wisdom here, from October all the way through to March, was that this was a solid team that would at least improve on 2003 and could even surprise in 2004. So far, however, The Blue Jays have disappointed a lot of people, both those who follow the team and those who do not. There’s a lot of hope and pride invested in this squad, and that investment has had a very rough first quarter. Perhaps most maddening is that there’s no easy answer: firing the manager still seems like a knee-jerk reaction; calling up struggling prospects looks like panic; benching young hitters is a solution whose best-before date expires after a day or two; buying replacement players isn’t an option. All you’re left with are head-scratching questions.

Is this a bad team? Is it a good team that's simply playing poorly in the first quarter of the season? Is it a good team whose key players seem destined to have bad years? Or is it a mediocre team playing exactly the way they ought? No matter what they are, as a fan, you have to stick with them through the good and the bad, regardless of how frustrating and downright exasperating they may be. Common sense has to triumph over frustration. As difficult as it is to take a step back, view the roster objectively and conclude that there are so many good players here that this team simply has to improve, nonetheless that’s what tops the agenda of the Toronto Blue Jays and their fans today.
Jays Roundup: Sometimes, You're Better Off Dead | 91 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#64445) #
Yeah, and if LeCroy had gotten under that pitch and popped it up, the vultures would all be talking about how the Jays have .500 - and more - in their sights. I'm not buying a word of it.
_alsiem - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#64446) #
Monday Night's Game has half price tickets. Is anyone going to be in section 518 to cheer them on?

Your right Craig, a split with the Sox and a series win over the Twins and people would say the Jays were coming around.

Pet Shop Boys, "Westend Girls". We've all got to resist the urge to knock down tables.
_Jordan - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#64447) #
alsiem wins!
_R Billie - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#64448) #
It seems that every time there's a dramatic loss for a franchise it means there's something lacking or the entire philosophy is wrong or whatever. The Jays are playing better overall in May than they were in April. They just need their best players and pitchers to perform like it and they'll be fine.

Is the answer to that a new manager? Or a shakeup trade? Who knows. The Twins made an improvement trade last year and all of a sudden they started playing better as a team. Sometimes it just takes one move or one addition to take the pressure off everyone. The Jays might need to sacrifice a useful player to take on a veteran in his contract year with an incentive to perform in a new setting.
Mike Green - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#64449) #
I have a thought on bullpen management. It may be that the current available personnel does not lend itself to the traditional set-up men/closer division of roles. Frasor doesn't want to pitch on consecutive days; Ligtenberg is too vulnerable to left-handed hitters; Adams may not be able to perform best under the pressure of the ninth inning/close game situation.

The thing is that the bullpen is really not bad overall. You could use this division of roles, pending the return of Speier. Frasor is given the long closer assignment, arriving at some point in the eighth inning (the beginning?) of tie games and one-run and two-run leads. Frasor completes these games. On the following day when Frasor is unavailable, if a save situation emerges in the 9th, some degree of reliever roulette is employed. Adams is used in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings where he appears to be more effective.

It's obviously not ideal, but it does feel like they're trying to fit players into a closer role. I have been critical of Tosca's reliever roulette in the past, but some compromise seems appropriate given the personnel currently available.
Named For Hank - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#64450) #
Monday Night's Game has half price tickets. Is anyone going to be in section 518 to cheer them on?

They have to run this promo on the one night I'm going to be able to see my wife's hockey team play this summer.

But I'll be there on Tuesday and Wednesday.
_Paul D - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#64451) #
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1085004616075&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064
COMN for an article on the Skydome from the Star.

I'm surprised at how negative JP is about it. You'd think he would want to encourage people to get out there.
_Andrew - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#64452) #
Ricciardi is pretty negative, but it sounds to me like he's frustrated by the lack of control the BlueJays have over the stadium. Probly especially the turf, which is bad for his precious groundball pitchers.
_Daryn - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#64453) #
I was wondering if we could collect a "Mood Graph"
where the columnists moods are tracked over the season... so we can see the peaks and valleys...

maybe based on predicted wins totals, or Sunshine ratings or something...

I'd like to see how fast thes guys flip around...

Daryn
_BguyRed - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#64454) #
In the offseason one of the things that Ricciardi seemed to want to go after was a "proven" closer, and when that didn't work out we were forced to watch the Tim Worrel syndrom. I think that the key to the Jays improving themselves is simply finding a guy who is able to close regularily who the entire team has confidence in to come in and close the door.
Thomas - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#64455) #
Craig hit upon a good point here. If the Jays had won the game yesterday the articles would likely have been about how the Jays are nearing .500 and they have key series coming up against Boston and Anaheim. With Baltimore facing the Angels and Yankees, I'd be they would have been talking about how this is a chance to see how we stand in comparison to the Orioles, and if the Jays could at least take 3rd in the East.

Heartbreaking losses like yesterday's have everybody abandoing ship and pressing the panic button. I'm not happy at the way the season has progressed, but the Jays have better days ahead. We won't end the season as the 4th worst team in the AL.
_coliver - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#64456) #
What a change in 15 years...J.P. grilling the Dome is not going to help things.

One thing I have noticed (and by the way, I like SkyDome), is the lack of communication between the Dome hotel people and the Blue Jays themselves. The concerige department at the hotel (who does an outstanding job other than this)do nothing to help you get prime seats like the "In the Action" ones, but they will do everything they can to get you that sold-out Leafs ticket or that sold out Mama Mia ticket. Also, the Jays do nothing to help sell the hotel and its facilities. There should be some kind of synergy between the two.

As for the Jays themselves? It is going to take a long time to escape the damage of the Gord Ash era in which there was arrogance in every facet of the Jays from Baseball Administration to Ticket Management. The Ash era provided an incredibly "user-unfriendly" atmosphere to fans--try getting a good ticket, even when there were 14,000 in the stands. Yeah right!

I don't think J.P. really likes it here. Look for him to go to a higher profile market within the next three years. It will be interesting to see how much of a genius "Chasing Stienbrenner" makes him out to be.
_Justin B. - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#64457) #
Look at the line-up the Expos are trotting out there today:

E. Chavez cf
J. Carroll 2b
T. Sledge 1b
O. Cabrera ss
M. Cepicky lf
J. Rivera rf
B. Schneider c
A. Fox 3b
T. Ohka p

See, it's not THAT bad being a Blue Jays fan.
_Elijah - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#64458) #
At least JP is not crying out that the Blue Jays want a new stadium as is the case with Steve Schott and Carl Pohlad want now and other owners have cried for in the past. They just want control of the stadium as the main tenant. You would think that you would want to cater to the tenant that uses the facility 81 days per year. Unfortunately, now that they've torn down the Ex, the Jays really have no leverage... unless they want to move to the Big O next year. Haha.
_coliver - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#64459) #
REBUILD THE EX!!!!!!!
_JBR - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#64460) #
Strange. I thought it was relatively generally believed that 2003 was an aberration. We had players with career offensive years, a starting pitcher with a career year... JP himself warned us that the 2003 team may have played 5-10 wins over its head.

Did nobody listen?!
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#64461) #
This was missed amongst all the hand-wringing, but the Jays signed Bobby Estalella yesterday and sent him to Syracuse.
_BirdWatcher - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#64462) #
I didn't even see yesterday's game but it sure sounds like Blanco should have been thrown out. It seems to me this is the third or fourth time since Gomez has been filling in for Woodward that he has fumbled and bumbled his way at a critical point in the game. Comments ? Poetic justice - one week Jay fans are rhapsodizing about the improbable Gomez slam off Schilling, and now the Jays just gave it back !! Bottom line - it's a long season and the margin for error on any given night is almost scary. As noted by Daryn, the "mood" today is definitely down, down, down !!! So, obsessing about the bullpen is a great spectator sport, but does anybody really believe the outlook for the team is fundamentally different today compared to 24 hours ago ?? More important, the bullpen is probably the last place where the Jays can expect to be able to engineer any fundamental changes. Like day traders, JP/Carlos will continue to shuffle the deck chairs in the Titanic bullpen. Some days it will work and some days it won't - but it seems to me that any improvement in the Jays' fortunes will ultimately depend on a turnaround by the hitters, combined with a defense that can manage to get through 9 innings without screwing up at critical moments.
_Andrew - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#64463) #
Yeah, many of us noticed that the 2003 team may have been a little over it's head. Although Crash was the only player who really had a career year.

What we also noticed, however, is that the 2004 team had a much better rotation than the 2003 team, and a much better bullpen than the 2003 team.

Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I suspect the Blue Jays' problems rest squarly on one $19 million dollar man. Rally-killing and creating a hole in the middle of the order has lead to the poor offense, which is what's holding the team back.
_JBR - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#64464) #
Regarding the bullpen, here is how I would use it.

FRASOR is the bullpen ace. He pitches when it matters most, and usually 2 innings. In the best case scenario, he pitches the 8th and 9th in close games (down 1 to up 2). If necessary, he gets a tough out in the 7th. Traditional stopper role.

NAKAMURA is the long man. On days when FRASOR is unavailable, NAKAMURA pitches 2-3 innings to bail out a starter going only 5 innings. On days when FRASOR is available, NAKAMURA pitches only one inning, and only if needed.

LOPEZ is ROOGY #1. He gets the One Big RHB when needed. The goal is to use him in a key situation when the opposition won't PH for a big RHB.

LIGTENBERG is ROOGY #2. He faces 3-out-of-5 RHB. The goal is to slide him through an inning with mostly RHB and hope the LHB don't take him deep.

ADAMS is a middle man. He pitches in the 7th or 8th, as needed, usually 3 or 4 outs. He can face anyone, as long as he stays out of the 9th.

DE LOS SANTOS is LOOGY #1. He gets the One Big LHB. He is the mirror of LOPEZ.

KERSHNER is LOOGY #2. He faces 3-out-of-5 LHB/SHB, but only if the SHB is worse vLHP. The goal is to slide him through an inning with mostly LHB/SHB and hope for the best against the RHB.

When SPEIER returns, he takes ADAMS' role and pitches the 9th inning when FRASOR is unavailable. LOPEZ returns to AAA. Now there is less need for LIGTENBERG to be ROOGY #2, and can play the role of ROOGY #1 more often.

But that's just me.
Gerry - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#64465) #
Baseball Prospectus has a new story on catcher's throwing. #1 is Kevin Cash.
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#64466) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1804636
Heres a link to todays Sean McAdam story on the re-enginerring of the Boston pen and the abandonment of the closer by committe concept.

I hope this link works. I pasted the address in the Homepage slot. COMN.
Named For Hank - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#64467) #
Rally-killing and creating a hole in the middle of the order has lead to the poor offense, which is what's holding the team back.

I agree with this to a certain extent. He's showing signs of thaw, though, which means he should be heating up any second now. It's like the transition from Canadian winter to summer -- there's about thirty seconds of "hey, is it getting warmer", then BAM, it's hot as hades.

Maybe this loss will flip a switch somewhere in the heart of the team and they'll come out and slaugher Boston this weekend to make up for losing on my birthday. I would accept that as an apology. ;)
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#64468) #
Ok, that worked. Anyway I think the story is thought provoking in view of the poor performance of the pen in cltch situations.
All the best.
_Christopher - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#64469) #
http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/columnist.jsp;jsessionid=MIIPCOCADHCH?content=20040520_131523_5648
Marty York adds his two cents to the closer issue.
COMN
Mike D - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#64470) #
Friend of Batter's Box, John Sickels, has a chat transcript from this morning.

McGowan, Gross and Rios all get mentioned; John thinks Gabe's a "Rusty Greer-type" and has some interesting comps, good and bad, for Lexi.
_Cristian - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#64471) #
Here's something I've been mulling over. Would it kill either Sportsnet or TSN to carry Baseball Tonight? I mean, do they really need to carry 12 Sportsdesks or 12 SportsNet News a day? Both stations carry TSN programming. I'm sure it would get more viewers than crap like PTI, high school cheerleading championships or whatever other crap they bring over from ESPN. Maybe after the hockey playoffs Bauxites should start writing letters to the sports networks--even the Score which now carries MLB.
_Bird Watcher - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#64472) #
JBR (#20) - I wish all this fine-tuning could make a difference. But if you just randomnly assigned the identified tasks to the current crew, do you really think we would see any fundamental difference in the won/lost column at the end of the season ?? Unless you have a Rivera/Foulke/Gagne type, it's just hard to believe it really matters who gets anointed closer. Just about any living, breathing MLB pitcher is going to record an out about 2/3 of the time. Given more tha 50% of so-called save situations start with a 2 or 3 run lead, that still leaves a pretty big margin for error. If you exclude Rivera, Foulke and Guardado from the numbers - what was the blown save percentage for the rest of the AL last year ? I'm betting the number is probably in the 25-35% range. A number that big has more to do with statistical randomness than pitching ability. When a closer blows it like Adams did yesterday (though I'm still not willing to let Gomez escape part of the responsibility !), it's high profile and
great copy for the sports pages. But over the course of a year, unless you've got a Rivera/Foulke/Gagne, the closer's role is not going to leverage you to a significant number of additional wins. Anybody aware of any sabermetric studies which have analyzed this issue ?
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#64473) #
KT's Top Five Pet Shop Boys CDs:

1. Very
2. Behaviour
3. Relentless
4. Disco 2
5. Introspective
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#64474) #
Maybe after the hockey playoffs Bauxites should start writing letters to the sports networks--even the Score which now carries MLB.

Sportsnet doesn't answer their mail. I have tried to get an explanation from them why they didn't broadcast the advertised Sunday Doc start. I wrote them twice but no reply. Obviuosly their PR Dept is fat.
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#64475) #
This is more like it... a Pet Shop Boys rating thread.

My Top 5...

1. Actually
2. Behaviour
3. Introspective
4. Very
5. Please
_nate - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#64476) #
Craig does have a point, but bottom line, they didn't win -- they lost and they've been playing below what most of us expected to start the season -- i'm nowhere near off the bandwagon (if i paid to go see those dreaded teams in the mid-90s' with alex 'rally killer' gonzalez at short, i sure as hell will stick through this dry spell), but it's obvious that something has to be done to shake things up a little bit here --
Mike Green - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#64477) #
Bird Watcher, you are right. No matter how you slice and dice the bullpen, it wouldn't have made a difference of more than 2 games so far this season. The team is below .500 due to the production of Wells/Delgado/Phelps/Hinske. The only thing to do is to wait.
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#64478) #
Regarding Christopher's link to the York story. It seems like the decision is now made. Its Frasor's turn.

I think this is a huge, huge mistake. Frasor has been successful in his role todate. They better not be wrong and screw this kid up.

Desparate measures?
robertdudek - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#64479) #
It's desperate, but the kid has the best fastball among the relievers. Due to unfamilarity, Frasor could very well be successful for another month on the strength of spotting his fastball and mixing in his curve. Hopefully Speier will be back, show his mettle and be ready to take the role.
_nate - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#64480) #
yeah, and york also quotes ricciardi as attempting to sign TODD worrell in the offseason to be the closer -- maybe he should have -- how old is he now? there was a time --
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#64481) #
Robert, I do not disagree with you. I guess the point I was implying was that Frasor is the only *lock* Tosca has had since his arrival. And I know we both agree outs in the late innings when the games on the line are just as valuable as outs in the ninth.
Named For Hank - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#64482) #
Hey, KT (or Craig), is Relentless good? I never bought it.

1. Very
2. Bilingual
3. Behavior
4. Introspective
5. Actually

Day to day, the order will change. Bilingual has so much good stuff on it, but I don't think it's cohesive enough to be #1. Very gets bonus points for the truly insane cover.
_Cristian - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#64483) #
Very - Solid album, with great videos to support the released singles
Actually
Behaviour - Being Boring is one of my 10 favourite songs of all time
Please
Bilingual - Not a great album but phenomenal lyrics
"I look from my window down to the square
At workers still queueing patiently there
For market forces to provide
What history's so far denied
For a different kind of fate
Than to labour long and always wait"

I really hope that they go in another direction after Release. We can all do with less Samurais in Autumn.
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#64484) #
'Relentless' is like nothing else on the planet. It came out ten years ago and is still ahead of its time. It's the world's greatest driving music, it has hypnotic, *relentless* beats, minimal vocals and the eeriest song themes. The songs, and I'm only guessing here, are about:

- space aliens who come to earth and can't tell the difference between the two genders
- an expressive, draculaic computer in its own Transylvannia
- men without souls who can't hold their jobs

The only reason it's Number 3 on my list is it seems more of a Chris Lowe effort. But Neil makes whispering appearances with effective restraint.

It's ghostly.

You might have trouble finding it. I'll have burn a copy and bring it to 518 one night.
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#64485) #
I love The Samurai in Autumn!
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#64486) #
Bilingual has that great string of the first 4 songs and then sort of goes flat. 'Saturday Night Forever' is dreadful, 'Before' is boring but groovy.
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#64487) #
'Nightlife' gets no mention by does have two fabulous songs on an otherwise dull album:

"You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk"
is one of their best songs.

"Don't Know What You Want But I Can't Give It Anymore"
is brilliant.

but "Boy Strange", "In Denial": yikes!
_alsiem - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#64488) #
I'm finding no solice in this Pet Shop Boys chatter and yesterday was Supertramp. Tomorrow I'm sure you guys will be all over Fleetwood Mack or Yes. Yet we will always have baseball in common.

To each his own, since we've beaten the closer situation to death and it's an off day here's my top albums that I wish I was listening to right now.

Calexico - Feast of Wire
The Silver Hearts - No Place
Matt Mays - Matt Mays
Pavement - Wowee Zoewee
Eleni Mandell - Country for True Lovers
Dave Till - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#64489) #
Regarding Christopher's link to the York story. It seems like the decision is now made. Its Frasor's turn.

I don't have a problem with Frasor as the closer, but I don't like the idea of changing closers every time the incumbent has two bad outings in a row. I'm concerned that the constant role switching puts pitchers under too much pressure. "I'd better get this guy out, or I'll lose my job!" is not what you want your closer thinking with the game on the line.
Mike Green - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#64490) #
Olseim, how 'bout Steve Earle's version of Buddy Holly's "Crying, Waiting, Hoping" as a theme for today? Speaking of which, there'll be lots of fun in the minors tonight.
_Jordan - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#64491) #
Where's the love for Please? They hadn't become quite as disco-transmogrified as they later would, and there's some really good stuff in there. Opportunities is one of their best singles, and Tonight is Forever is a great driving song.

Anyway, all the albums through the mid-90s are good, but I passed up a chance to get Relentless when it came out and have regretted it since. BTW, is One Thing Leads to Another a cover of the Fixx tune? I haven't really been paying attention from Disco 2 onwards, but I stopped listening to new music when I turned 30, so there you go.

Top Singles:

10. Rent
9. Domino Dancing
8. So Hard
7. Yesterday When I Was Mad
6. Left to My Own Devices
5. West End Girls
4. Can You Forgive Her?
3. Where The Streets Have No Name
2. Opportunities
1. Always On My Mind

I never cared for What Have I Done to Deserve This?. I couldn't understand why it was so freaking popular and how it's pretty much the only PSB song (aside from West End Girls) you ever hear anymore.
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#64493) #
Jordan, how could you leave off Being Boring!? :) A fantastic song. Love your 8, 7, and 1 choices.
_Lefty - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#64494) #
I'm concerned that the constant role switching puts pitchers under too much pressure. "I'd better get this guy out, or I'll lose my job!" is not what you want your closer thinking with the game on the line.

Well thats the point. Now you have a kid who to this point has been very successful. If a game blows up in his face he becomes the next target of derision what then. Why mess with whats working right now when we all know if the kid messes up he'll be yesterdays man the morning after. I don't have any faith in C.T's ability to have these guys pull together. They seem to be pulled apart. That to me is the crux of the Sean McAdam story on the front page of the ESPN Baseball section today. All of this seems to be being further exasperated.
_NDG - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#64495) #
I've now got the urge to go home and dig out my Pet Shop Boys CD's and put 'em in the car. Good work boys!
_NDG - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#64496) #
Best Songs

10. What Have I Done to Deserve This?
9. Can You Forgive Her?
8. So Hard
7. Opportunities
6. Domino Dancing
5. Being Boring
4. Always On My Mind
3. Rent
2. Left to My Own Devices
1. West End Girls
_Jordan - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#64497) #
Jordan, how could you leave off Being Boring!?

A fine song, but I have to say, Behaviour was maybe my least favourite album. Understated is all well and good, but that record was downright comatose at times. Quiet, reflective Pet Shop Boys music is like Nolan Ryan throwing a knuckler; I'm sure he could do it, but why??
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#64498) #
I feel like such a pup with all this PSB talk...Only things that register are a poster my uncle had and a couple of tracks off Billingual...anyone here listen to Oasis???
_Mosely - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#64499) #
Pavement - Wowee Zoewee

Best alternative album of the 90's in my opinion. Nevermind Nevermind (ha!).

I heard "Take the Skinheads Bowling" by Camper Van Beethoven on the radio the other day. Now there's a great old song.
_Four Seamer - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#64500) #
Where's the love for Suburbia?
_Four Seamer - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#64501) #
Fawaz - now we're talking. Think Zack Starkey will join the band full-time?
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#64502) #
With 2 Ls, apparently...
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#64503) #
Whitey's dumping depressed me (though he never QUITE got Live Forever down). Yeah, I think Starkey's in; Beatle-worship is paramount for Oasis...
_Jordan - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#64504) #
Where's the love for Suburbia?

The remix is fantastic, the one with the barking dogs. It was just outside my Top Ten. I might even switch it with Domino Dancing, come to think of it.

Favourite over-the-top PSB line, from Left to My Own Devices:

I was faced with a choice at a difficult age
Should I write a book, or take to the stage?
But in the back of my head, I heard distant feet
Che Guevara and DeBussy to a disco beat.
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#64505) #
10. Home And Dry
9. Always
8. Euroboy
7. I Want A Dog
6. The End of The World
5. My October Symphony
4. Young Offender
3. Yesterday When I Was Mad
2. You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk
1. Can You Forgive Her?
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#64506) #
You'll tell from my list that I get quite upset when people refer to PSB as "an 80s band".

...they're not even really a band!
_Four Seamer - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#64507) #
Is anyone else here excited that Brett Anderson and Bernard Butler are writing and recording together again?
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#64508) #
Wow, for whatever reason I completely lost track of Suede after Coming Up (which I loved)
_Cristian - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#64509) #
Is anyone else here excited that Brett Anderson and Bernard Butler are writing and recording together again?

As much as I like a fair amount Suede's music, I find it troubling whenever the marketing for a band is cleverer than the band itself. Don't get me wrong. Suede is a decent band but their glam rock posing (pre and post Bernard Butler) is a little too much.

With all this PSB and now Suede talk I imagine that most of us are comfortable with our masculinity. That said, who else is looking forward to Morrissey's new album? The new track is brilliant. He'll also be on Craig Kilborn every day next week. I never watch Kilborn but I'll definitely be making an exception.
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#64510) #
Especially looking forward to it because I could only appreciate his last one, well, as much as a 12 year old can. Truth be told, I barely remember it. Early returns sound good...
_Four Seamer - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#64511) #
Cristian, it's a great record, even though I paid a preposterous amount of money for it.

Very uplifting stuff! Sample lyric:

Monday - humiliation
Tuesday - suffocation
Wednesday - condescension
Thursday - is just pathetic
by Friday - life has killed me


There's also a song, if you can believe it, about Latino gangs in L.A. (with whom he is very popular, supposedly). It's what put me in mind of Suburbia by PSB (or at least the video).
_Jordan - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#64512) #
Monday - humiliation
Tuesday - suffocation
Wednesday - condescension
Thursday - is just pathetic
by Friday - life has killed me


I think we've found Terry Adams' coming-in-from-the-bullpen music... ;-)
_Cristian - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#64513) #
Four Seamer,

Are you saying you have the record already? How did you swing that?
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#64514) #
Ha, I've already taken to playing "Stop Crying Your Heart Out" whenever Adams or Ligtenberg takes the mound.
_Four Seamer - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#64515) #
Cristian,

It came out this week - I picked up it at the HMV at First Canadian Place for the princely sum of $27.99 (inflated, I think, because it comes with a 'bonus' DVD).

His politics, as usual, are dubious, but he never fails to entertain.
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#64516) #
With all this PSB and now Suede talk I imagine that most of us are comfortable with our masculinity.

Damn... Moffatt's not here, or I'd make a backhanded crack.

Now Stop Crying Your Heart Out (dislike Oasis, love that song)... next time Adams comes in, we should start quoting lyrics from that.

Four Seamer talking about picking up a CD at First Canadian Place reminds me of something I wanted to ask. Who here works in downtown Toronto? We should arrange a lunchtime Beer Club (or Club Sandwich Club, or what have you).
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#64517) #
Top Ten PSB Singles (can't rank 'em, it would kill me)

1. It's A Sin
2. Being Boring
3. Left To My Own Devices
4. Suburbia
5. Can You Forgive Her?
6. Always On My Mind
7. What Have I Done To Deserve This
8. So Hard
9. A Red Letter Day
10. Rent (I prefer the B-Side, though - I Want A Dog)
_nate - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#64518) #
wowee zowee -- great album -- no pavement albums disappointed me, but the malkmus solo ones i could do without, save a couple songs -- as for matt mays, seen him live a couple of times at the horseshoe, my friend is friends with the drummer of el torpedo and went to see them a lot when she was going to dalhousie -- nice guys, solid album, good live show, but he's gotta slow down on the neil young/jayhawks listening -- it seeps through big time on more than 3/4 of the album --
_MrPurple - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#64519) #
http://www.naturesguard.com
Jays just signed Bobby Estalella and assigned him to syracuse. Guess Crash is going to be out for a while.
_StephenT - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#64520) #
In-context Jays stats for the past 22 days (i.e. 100% new information since my previous report). Includes EqA for all Jays and former Jays.
_Keith Talent - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#64521) #
Wow Suede! 'Coming Up' is a great album. I was at the HMV today on Yonge (is that the same one?) - I was just about to buy this new Human League compilation, double CD ($30), until I read the fine print that it was Copyright Controlled. Essentially meaning I wouldn't be able to add it to the rest of my music collection (mostly paid for) for iPod listening on the subway. Ridiculous! EMI is forcing you to go home and download this stuff, against your will!

I hate downloading not for moral reasons, but it's just a pain in the arse. After work I don't wanna spend hours on the computer clicking and searching and compiling at home! I wanna relax, I want CDs and I want digital listening devices, is that too much to ask? Music corps only see people as either renegade file-sharers or 'respectabe' CD collectors when there is such a vast, lucrative grey area.

It's like "Baseball America" trying to shut this site down because it gives away baseball information for free. When actually this site probably works to create a more intense interest for baseball, thus higher sales of the mag.

Man: the things I talk about when the Jays aren't playing! I wonder what Adams is doing right now? I tell ya: he deserves no chicken fingers. I hope he's returning empty bottles for pepperoni.
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#64522) #
Adams is in J.P.'s office as Billy Beane 2.0 strikes a golf ball off a tee in his mouth...
_JBR - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#64523) #
Bird Watcher (#28): when a pitcher shows a repeated inability to pitch in a particular situation, you have to replace him. For whatever reason, Adams has shown that he cannot pitch well in the 9th, in spite of his ability to pitch at other times. If Adams performs worse in the 9th than when we pitches at other points in the game, then obviously pitching him in the 9th leads to more runs allowed, and therefore more losses.

Now I agree that, in general, it matters more /how many innings/ the relievers pitch than /which innings/ they pitch. It's like the batting order: most of what matters is getting your best hitters the most PAs; so most of what matters is getting your best pitchers the most innings. However, once you optimize that situation, you need to look at which pitchers are facing which hitters and when, as well as any unusual (possibly mentally-related) trends. I think that right now, the best 'pen pitchers are pitching most: Frasor and Nakamura get most of the bullpen innings. Now we just need everyone else pitching mostly in situations in which they can succeed, leaving the rest for the hot hands.

Also keep in mind that there is some merit to pitching your best run preventers late: the later you give up runs, the less time you have to get them back on offence. This is one area where I differ with the Baseball Prospectus-type bullpen usage ideas.
_JBR - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#64524) #
Guys, just because the bullpen isn't responsible for most of the problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get as much out of them as we can!
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#64525) #
Finally someone manages to articulate what I've been fumbling about it...
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#64526) #
With, even...
_Fawaz K - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#64527) #
Given the team's focus on splits, wouldn't it make sense to assign a reliever to a chunk of the line-up? Tosca decides before hand that pitcher X deals with the team Y's 3,4 and 5 hitters well, while another guy may own the 1 and 2 hitters. Once the starter's knocked out, you bring in a reliever best suited for that part of the line-up. This is a little less extreme than bringing in OOGYs.
Named For Hank - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#64528) #
KT, I totally agree about Nightlife -- so hot and cold, so so hot and so so cold. At times it's like overorchestrated nothing, and at times it's like a swirling, gorgeous, chaotic mess.

I could never do a top ten for songs. It was hard enough for me to finalize that album order. ;)

I'll trade you something interesting for Relentless. Need any New Pornographers? I'm trying to spread the New Pornographers love.
_BirdWatcher - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#64529) #
JBR, trust me, I feel your pain. Your proposed solution may make you feel better but I really don't see the logic. It's like a stock that's gone down 10% - maybe constantly churning the portfolio will make you feel better, but is it going to produce better results ? You say Adams has "repeatedly" shown an inability to pitch in the ninth. Well, let's remember we're looking at a grand total of 7 9th/10th inning performances since he was anointed closer at the beginning of May. Let's check the record - he entered two tie ball games (May 3 and May 7) ending up with one win and one loss (Aaron Gueil HR). There were 5 save situations (May 8/12/16/18/19)resulting in 3 saves and 2 blown saves. So, on this basis, we are going to shift to Frasor or Nakamura ?? Sorry, I just don't see the logic. Yeah, Adams' WHIP looks awful over this period but except for 2 anomalous HRs by Gueil and Lecroy (and perhaps one less clutzy play from Mr. Gomez), Adams would have 2 wins, 4 saves and one blown save since the beginning of May. I say we stick with him.
_Jacko - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#64530) #

when a pitcher shows a repeated inability to pitch in a particular situation, you have to replace him. For whatever reason, Adams has shown that he cannot pitch well in the 9th, in spite of his ability to pitch at other times. If Adams performs worse in the 9th than when we pitches at other points in the game, then obviously pitching him in the 9th leads to more runs allowed, and therefore more losses.


A little food for thought.

Danny Graves currently leads the majors with 18 saves. Take a look at his numbers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5649

I have no idea how a guy who doesn't strike out a lot people and has given up _7_ HR in 24 IP can have 18 saves already. He does have 4 blown saves.

Anyhow, with Adams, I think things will even out. Given a chance to close on a regular basis, I think he'll be no worse than Danny Graves.
_Cristian - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 12:24 AM EDT (#64531) #
Great work as always from Stephen T. I was driven away from the alt.sport.baseball.bluejays group by all the trolls there but Stephen T was always someone whose posts I enjoyed reading.

I know that hindsight is twenty twenty but wouldn't Michael Young look good as the starting Jays shortstop. He won't continue to hit so well; still I wonder much of his improvement will stick.
_Alex from the U - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 02:08 AM EDT (#64532) #
Slight hijack - heard on the Fan590 apperently SkyDome is getting natural grass install in July (I think). It is 7am here and i am partially awake :P
Lucas - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 03:24 AM EDT (#64533) #
You might be thinking of this, Alex. It's for football (soccer) matches, not baseball.
_Simon - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 08:35 AM EDT (#64534) #
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100895/
COMN for an article by Will Carroll featured in Slate, MSN's online magazine. Interesting read.
Pistol - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 08:44 AM EDT (#64535) #
If anyone reads Gleeman's blog you should head there today, it's pretty funny. 'Good tools' has me cracking up. (Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't click on the links).
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