The moves from the Dodgers and Mets must have unfuriated the fans. I have never seen a first-place club, like the Dodgers, surrender such a substantial core of their lineup with just two months to go and a 3.5 game lead in the division. The Mets aren't going anywhere near the postseason and have mortgaged their future for two mediocre pitchers.

But the Dodgers! Mind boggling...

Hee Sop Choi for DePodesta was probably very much like Erubiel Durazo was for Billy Beane. A lefty power bat with Delgado/Thome/Ortiz type upside and more importantly cheap in the near future which allows Depodesta to use the considerable Dodger resources in other areas. LoDuca is a good player but before this year was not very good outside of his rookie year. Guillermo Mota is a good reliever but obviously the Dodgers feel they have the depth or resources to handle losing him. They did need depth in the rotation but the deal may not be done if Penny comes down with a sore elbow. Rumour is they're looking to turn some of this around to get Randy Johnson.

Besides, where a team is in the standings shouldn't determine whether or not they should make a deal if they think they can improve their team in the present and/or future. Ask the Mariner fans whether they thought their team was smart not to make changes when they were in or near first place.

I have no freaking idea was the Mets are doing. Down six games at the end of July they have virtually no chance at the post season and have now lost their two best pitching prospects for Victor Zambrano and Kris Benson. Couldn't they have gotten guys like this on the free agent market?

You know you've pulled some strange moves when Zambrano for Kazmir might end up being only the third-worst trade you've made that day.

Huber for Bautista is absolutely mind-boggling. Bautista was a guy the Orioles took as a Rule 5 this year. They waived him and he was picked up by the Devil Rays. The Devil Rays held onto him for a month, then decided they didn't want him, so they sold him to the Royals.

The Royals turn around and trade him for Justin Huber, one of the best catching prospects in the minors. Makes absolutely no sense.

The Mets had a pretty good off-season but after yesterday I think they've officially gone insane. Oh well. Who knows, maybe they'll win 20 games a piece in August and September and surprise everyone.

Benson's agentis Glavine's as well. The mets are hoping for a discount in return to their good-will gesture of trading for him.
I will hold reservations on both deals until a year or two. Who knows what will transpire? I think Huber became expenadable because of the emergence of Mike Jacobs.

The moves from the Dodgers and Mets must have unfuriated the fans.

Is "unfuriated" a Seinfeld neologism, like "unvitation?"

What's amusing about the Mets' dealings is that, going into last night, the Mets had a slightly worse record than the Pirates. The Mets are fighting for the AL East title rather than the wild card, but still.

Texas offered OF Kevin Mench for Zambrano, but Tampa decided Kazmir was a better acquistion. Not a tough decision. Texas also traded prospects Ian Kinsler and Erik Thompson for Larry Walker, but Walker vetoed the deal.

Anyway, the Mets, jointly and severally, are insane.

Sorry, infuriated. that was a typo.

I'm not convinced the Dodgers made a good trade either. Brad Penny is an average starter, who over the 10 starts he'll probably make the rest of this season, he might make 6 quality ones. Offensively Choi and Lo Duca are a wash, and Lo Duca plays a far more valuable position, and knows the pitchers. Now, the Rockies can hold CJohnson hostage for the Dodgers to pay a mighty ransom. And let's not forget the straight loss of Mota and Encarnacion - important bit players for a division winner.

RE: Dodgers-Marlins deal.

There's more than 2004 to consider. Lo Duca will be a free agent after 2005, Choi not until 2007 (I think.. someone should look these up). That makes a big difference.

Choi - after 2008 or 2009 (depending on how much service time he racked up last year - it's on the borderline.

Lo Duca after 2006.

Mike Moffatt, ever the pro-union man, obviously wants the players to get to free-agency fast.

Honestly, I love the deal DePodesta made.

I'd rather have Penny than Mota
I'd rather have Choi than LoDuca
I'd rather have a prospect (any prospect) than Encarnacion

That's a sweet trade they made IMO.

Kansas City did well too...they came out of nowhere and got Justin Huber for virtually nothing. Why didn't the Bucs just take Huber? Weird.

Tampa/Mets pretty much goes without saying.

Ummm yeah, there are my half-assed opinions. :)

That makes a big difference.

Sure, but not so much to the Dodgers. Plus, the trading deadline isn't the optimal time to be getting Major League players for the future - it's like buying an airline ticket on the day of your flight.

Mike Moffatt, ever the pro-union man, obviously wants the players to get to free-agency fast.

LOL. That must be it. That or lack of sleep. Thanks for getting me out of another jam. :)

who needs leadership, heart, and intangibles, when you have stats? choi will be the next jeremy giambi, while the marlins, who will get roasted by baseball prospectus and rob neyer, will go on a second half run due to loduca and mota. book it.

i'm glad jp is holding onto guys like catalanato and batista. we may not be winning anything this year, but they have the type of leadership and heart we need to compete next year. having good guys around who know how to win and can help the younger players is very important, and trading batista for some prospects who may or may not pan out would be stupid.

i hate when teams treat players like robots and go gaga over guys like choi and cust and little giambi. how many ops and eqa champions did we have when we won the world series? how about the yankees when they had guys like tino, o'neil and brosius on the tail end of their careers? exactly. the dodgers need loduca for his emotional leadership, which they dont have anymore.

good trade for florida. and no, i'm not joe morgan.

great site by the way. glad i found out about it. you'll probably get upset at my old school ramblings, but i'll try to control it. i couldn't control it here, sorry.

As the Mets' trades are pitching-focused, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for Rick Peterson, I am withholding judgment about the trades. I'd be surprised if Peterson hasn't studied the deliveries of Benson and Zambrano, and Kazmir, and decided that the former two will be better pitchers. Peterson's track record in this respect is pretty damn good.

What, so Choi and Penny don't have any heart? Are they just robots?

we may not be winning anything this year, but they have the type of leadership and heart we need to compete next year.

Why isn't their leadership working this season?

Apparently Finley's been traded to LA.

I like the deal from Florida's perspective:

1) I like Mota better than Penny
2) Lo Duca is one of the top catchers in baseball - particularly valuabnle in a pitcher's environment because he doesn't strikeout and hits linedrives. Choi is going to be a good 1B, but I doubt he'll be great.

3) Encarnacion is far from a valueless player. He's a good defensive outfielder and he has some power.

I just think it's hilarious that vic is implying that all those guys Florida had who won the FREAKING WORLD SERIES last year need the "heart and leadership" of two guys who've never won anything at all.

There's simpleminded thinking, and there's bad, stupid simpleminded thinking. Getting a guy who always tanks in a pennant race (Lo Duca) for his "leadership" would be the second.

Some minor trades that went down this afternoon aren't getting much press:

ATL acquired P Tom Martin and cash from LA for P Matt Merricks

FLA acquired P Rudy Seanez from KC for Abraham Nunez and Ismael Valdez from SD for P Travis Chick

Look at KC go! That's two nice deals for them. Nunez won't be a star but Seanez is nothing.

good trade for florida. and no, i'm not joe morgan.

No, but you might be Buster Olney.

From Olney's analysis:

"...a proven run-producer in Encarnacion ...[Choi] had 78 whiffs in 281 at-bats this year, and he was hitting .238 with runners in scoring position; part of the reason the Marlins needed to make this trade was because rallies tended to die with Choi."

Deadline deals:

FLA gets: Ismael Valdez
SDP gets: minor league P Travis Chick

ATL gets: Tom Martin
LA gets: minor league P Matt Merricks

FLA gets: Rudy Seanez
KCR gets: (OF) Abraham Nunez

Charles Johnson refuses trade to Dodgers.

Dodgers ac2quire CF Steve Finley, pending his approval of the deal.

moffatt, i dont know if that was a serious question. carlos has been hurt. wells has been hurt. halladay has been hurt. what do you expect? you need talent to win, i never denied that. but the marlins needed guys like conine to lead and pudge. the jays needed paul moliter. the yankees needed paul o'neil. thats what differenciates world series winners from good regular season teams.

some will try and justify this deal by saying choi is some uberfreak offensivly and loduca only has a .blah eqa or whatever junk, and say it was a great move for la. loduca is la's emotional leader. every team needs that. you cant just look at stats and say choi will make the team better. thats my point. you dont trade your leader when you're first place for future parts. and its not like loduca was not hitting either, he was.

that might be old school thinking but thats the way i feel. would the yankes have won the world series if they traded paul o'neil for jack cust or jeremy giambi? of course not. choi may become delgado. he may not. my point is, if you're trying to win a world series this year, you keep loduca. his value goes way past the stats.

having guys like batista, cat, bordick last year, is only helping our team go to the next step. we're still a few players away, but leadership can help bridge the gap.

just my opinion.

Nomah sounds like he'd headed to the cubs according to stark and rosenthal.

With Charles Johnson electing to not go to LA, perhaps it's worth floating Greg Zaun?

Wow.

Our favorite pitcher Esteban Loaiza has been traded to the YANKEES for Jose Contreras, accoring to ESPN. Loaiza in NY, that should be fun.

Contreras and cash to Chi-Town for Estaban Freaking Loiza according to Gammons

THIS JUST IN... Loiza for... Shoot, you guys are quick!

The deadline is over. Let me be the first to say: I look forward to this day all year and that was totally anticlimactic.

Remember the part when Buster Olney called Juan Encarnacion a proven run producer? That was the best.

craig b. said: I just think it's hilarious that vic is implying that all those guys Florida had who won the FREAKING WORLD SERIES last year need the "heart and leadership" of two guys who've never won anything at all. //////

when did i say the marlins needed loduca's leadership? i said florida will go on a run due to acquiring loduca and mota, because i think they can make a bigger difference than the players they gave up. i'm saying la will hurt more without loduca being there.

i dont know why that is stupid simple minded thinking when teams like the yankees feel the same way. i guess winning championships isn't important.

As a Yankees fan who saw too much of Loaiza in Texas ... I hate this deal. I don't think EL will hack the NYC media. And although he's been iffy, I firmly believe Contreras has a better upside.

Before someone schools me, yes, I realize I should have said "the deadline has passed". My fingers are faster than my brain.

Nomar? Loaiza? Reports are trickling in...this is getting interesting. Who are the Cubs giving up in return?

I think its possible for a couple deals to be announced as the hours go on... so we might not be completely done...

also, time to keep an eye on who has cleared waivers... does anyone know how to do that?

TSN.ca says it's a four team deal with Nomar, no other details were given.

Cubs, Red Sox, any guesses for the other teams? (If it's true)

Loaiza in NY, I can't get over that.

2000: 4.56 ERA, .806 OPS
2001: 5.02 ERA, .826 OPS
2002: 5.71 ERA, .828 OPS
2003: 2.90 ERA, .634 OPS
2004: 4.86 ERA, .805 OPS

Gee, which one doesn't fit?

Loaiza in NY....LOL, I love it.

Hey, Wilton Guerrero has been recalled to Omaha of the Pacific Coast League (AAA).

Okay, so I wanted a scoop of my own.

"ESPN reports Boston Red Sox shortstop Nomar Garciaparra has been traded to the Chicago Cubs as part of a four team deal."

It'll be interesting to see who went where in this deal and who the other two teams were.

having guys like batista, cat, bordick last year, is only helping our team go to the next step. we're still a few players away, but leadership can help bridge the gap.

I agree that leadership is important; even crucial. Any team that overachieves (like Florida did last year) does so at least in a small way through leadership. (Leadership that they got, by the way, mostly from their seen-it-all manager). A team like the Mustache Gang, the Big Red Machine, or the recent Yankee teams doesn't need leadership; their talent is enough. This Jays team is going to need the leadership.

But it's easy to lok for leadership in the wrong places. Paul Lo Duca, while I respect him and think of him as a favourite of mine, is *not* a leader - at least, not a productive one. His Dodger teams have always underachieved, often badly. He disappears (I mean disappears _completely_) in the second half every year - and a guy in a slump isn't an effective leader. The fact that he's a white, gritty, singles-hitting catcher and talks a good game does not make him an effective leader. There is *much* more to it than that. Leadership begins with having the respect and esteem of your teammates. I wouldn't for a minute expect Lo Duca's Boy Scout bulls*** to work on professional ballplayers, any more than anyone respected Paul O'Neill's water cooler freakouts (his ex-teammates say as much - O'Neill's "intensity" - admirable in and of itself - was much more a distraction than an inspiration).

Second, if you want character guys, why are you taking on Guillermo Mota? This is the same chicken**** guy who threw his glove at Piazza and ran for the dugout after he threw at him. (Funniest on-field moment in baseball in the last five years, other than McClendon stealing first base).

It'll be interesting to see who went where in this deal and who the other two teams were.

I'm guessing Montreal is one. It's unlikely Cabrera makes it past today still an Expo.

apparently, the red sox get cabrera for montreal, doug mienkiesxdkhs from minnesota, and matt clement from chicago. derek lowe goes to minny. nomar to the cubs. probably minor leaguers to montreal.

sounds interesting and complicated.

Wow Chowda heads should be pissed No-ma is gone

unless they get good value back

who needs leadership, heart, and intangibles, when you have stats? choi will be the next jeremy giambi, while the marlins, who will get roasted by baseball prospectus and rob neyer, will go on a second half run due to loduca and mota. book it.

I'm sorry that I took this to mean that Lo Duca and Mota had heart, leadership, and intangibles. What could I possibly have been thinking, I don't know. All apologies.

Red Sox get Cabrera and Doug Mienkekeyrfekedfs, Cubs get Garciaparra, missed the rest of it.

I'm hearing Red Sox trade Nomah and Derek (B)Lowe for Matt Clement, Doug Can'tSpellHisLastName and Orlando Cabrera. Pedro, Schilling, Clement?? Yowza!

Sounds like the Twins are in on the Cubs, Red Sox, Expos trade. Possibly involving Doug (1B) not even going to try and spell the last name possibly getting Lowe as a part of the deal.

also, time to keep an eye on who has cleared waivers... does anyone know how to do that?

You can't. It's confidential within MLB, although word seems to leak.

would the yankes have won the world series if they traded paul o'neil for jack cust or jeremy giambi? of course not.

Right. Because O'Neill, in addition to being a clubhouse leader, was an excellent right fielder the prototypical "Moneyball" hitter. Excepting a very poor 2000 season, throughout the Yankee playoff run from 1994-2001 (I know, no playoffs in 1994), O'Neill consistently had an OPS+ of better than 130 with a high of 170-something and a K/BB ratio of just about exactly 1:1.

You could hit O'Neill anywhere in the lineup from 2-9 (and he'd have made a heckuva a leadoff guy for teams who don't worry about speed -- the Brian Downing in Anaheim and Texas approach) ...

Little G and Cust are both lousy defensively and neither is a clubhouse presence, at least not in a positive way. So they are each essentially O'Neill without the positives.

From Lee Sinins:

Here's the details on the Nomar Garciaparra deal--

The Redsox trade Garciaparra to the Cubs
The Expos trade SS Orlando Cabrera to the Redsox.
The Cubs trade SS Alex Gonzalez to the Expos.

Dave Roberts from LA to Bos for unknown according to Rosenthal

There's reports from Ken Rosenthal where he says it's a bigger deal where Lowe went to the Twins and Mientkiewicz went to the Red Sox. Also prospects involved.

Dave Roberts told Fox Sports Net he's headed to the Red Sox.

If Roberts is going to Boston, does that mean Damon is headed somewhere? I know the Sox had more or less admitted they would trade him.

Geez guys, it's such a rudimentary Slavic surname - Mientkiewicz: The guy I advocated the Jays taking a run at just hours ago in another thread.

No trades involving Oakland, that I see? I wonder if the other GMs read Moneyball and no longer dare or want to deal with Billy Beane.

It could be just that Oakland don't need to trade for anyone but after you've read that Billy Beane rips off all other managers, who would want to get involved?

craigb. wrote: I'm sorry that I took this to mean that Lo Duca and Mota had heart, leadership, and intangibles. What could I possibly have been thinking, I don't know. All apologies.///////

i'm sorry if it appeared that way. i was talking about loduca's leadership and intangibles (which we dont agree on obviusly). i just included mota because he was part of the deal, didnt mean to paint him the same way as loduca.

i guess we can only see what will happen. i think florida will go on a big run.

I think the fact that Werth wasn't included by Depodesta in any of the deals tells me that he is a part of their future plans. There are rumblings he might catch once a week too.

With CJ turning down the trade to LA, Werth might catch a lot more than once a week.

No trades involving Oakland, that I see? I wonder if the other GMs read Moneyball and no longer dare or want to deal with Billy Beane.

I would think that any GM who has looked at the book would, at worst, scoff at an outsider's opinion. I can't imagine that any of them truly believe that Beane is smarter than they are.

You know, if none of my preferred teams can make the World Series, it occurs to me that it suddenly could be really, really fun to watch Nomar Garciaparra win the World Series for the Cubs for the first time in a thousand years with a three-homer game in ... Fenway.

With CJ turning down the trade to LA, Werth might catch a lot more than once a week.

Has Werth caught even once since his conversion to OF? It's rare that you see guys return to catching. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but off the top of my head I don't think that any of the following caught even one inning once they were officially no longer catchers: Dale Murphy, Downing, Biggio, Zeile, Surhoff, ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=240731130
The Jays lineup has been posted. Delgado is in it, as is Zaun.

Damm I wish MLB would hurry up and approve the deal. I'm planning on betting on 3 of tonights games and the one I had targeted was Sox vs. Twins. Lowe was scheduled to start tonight and if he got dealt to the Twins I need to know who's starting. I'm hoping maybe Pedro moves up a day.

Cabrera has to be excitied from going to a bottom feeder to a team trying to win the WS.

Tons of trade activity this year which is bad in one sense because it will take forever for me to adjust the trades and batting orders for MVP.

You know, if none of my preferred teams can make the World Series, it occurs to me that it suddenly could be really, really fun to watch Nomar Garciaparra win the World Series for the Cubs for the first time in a thousand years with a three-homer game in ... Fenway.

Wait a minute. The homerun may not count. The umpires are pointing to a fan leaning over the green monster. The one in the green turtleneck and headphones. The umpiress are saying that he interfered with the ball while it was in play and are awarding Garciaparra only a single.

According to the stats, Werth has not caught or came in as a catching replacement this season with the dodgers. With David Ross as the sole heir to the plate, one would think that Werth will get a few starts as the backstop.

It's confirmed the Red Sox have dealt AAA player Henry Stanley to LA for Dave Roberts.

With LA trading away Roberts, Mota, Martin, Juan E, and La Doca do they want to give up a playoff sport? Very strange moves.

According to NESN the Sox also sent Matt Murton to the Cubs. I believe Murton was a 1st round pick last year.

Did the Steve Finley trade happen?

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=5835546
Finally...a published report I can trust. From Reuters:

BOSTON gets Orlando Cabrera (from MON) and Doug Mientkiewicz (MIN).

CHICAGO gets Nomar, Matt Murton (BOS) and cash.

MONTREAL gets Alex Gonzalez, Francis Beltran and Brendan Harris (all from CHC).

MINNESOTA gets Justin Jones (CHC).

No Derek Lowe in the trade. Minnesota gets Justin Jones, Montreal gets Francisco Beltran.

Finley has confirmed the trade - not sure who is heading to Arizona.

I'll take that trade as being legit, so it looks like Lowe stays and pitches tonight.

I'm going to get my ticket now I got the Jays, A's, and Red Sox. All they have to do is win.

The Baseball Cube isn't working for me right now. Who's Justin Jones?
And, will Gleeman like this trade or not?

COMN for Justin Jones

Weird...I searched and clicked on Justin Jones page at The Cube and up came an error. Spicol's links work fine.

Ah, computers.

I realize that Nomar's relationship with Boston was one of the drivers for this deal but really, I have to think they could have done better. Nomar and cash for Cabrera and Minky would have been a poor trade but to throw a prospect like Murton in makes it downright bad in my books.

Looks like Werth may not need to catch after all.

MLB.com has the trade as

LA gets: Steve Finley, Brent Mayne
ARI gets: OF Reggie Abercrombie, C Koyie Hill, P Bill Murphy

I agree that it seems like the Sox gave up too much.

Just heard Francona say they needed to improve defensively, and that's the driver behind the trades.

Scott Erickson to Texas for PTBNL. Chan Ho Park, I hope.

Wow, there's a ton of stories going on here today.

What are the White Sox doing? Do they think Contreras is an upgrade over Loaiza? They're 4 games over .500 and only 4 games back in the AL Central. I know they've lost 6 straight, but this sure doesn't look like a move to improve the ballclub. Where did we put that white flag?

I think the Dodgers came out way, way ahead in the Marlins deal. LoDuca's 32 and is having his best season since his career year in 2001. His OPS in those years: 917, 732, 712, 795. Unless he pulls a Pudge Rodriguez -- and I don't think he will -- he's at his all-time peak trade value; catchers fall of the cliff right about now. Encarnacion has a .289 on-base percentage; enough said. Mota is a terrific pitcher, but he's only going to put up about 80+ fine innings a year. In return, the Dodgers get a 25-year-old first baseman making $310,000 and posting an 883 OPS (a 110-point increase over last year, and he's still improving) and a 26-year-old starter recovered from surgery with a 3.15 ERA.

I have no explanation for what's going on in Shea Stadium. The best theory I've heard is that there's a split in the front office and Duquette, who's not insane, is being trumped by others who have the ear of the owner. What a shame for that franchise.

Remember when Allard Baird was a joke among general mangers? Not any more.

My thoughts:

BOSTON: Bad trade.
CHICAGO: Good trade (any trade that gets A-Gone out of town is a good one).
MONTREAL: Not sure -- the prospects define this trade. If they work out, it's good. If it's Cabrera for Gonzalez, ugh.
MINNESOTA: Undecided.

Sickel ratings (from prior to the beginning of this season):

Justin Jones - B

Matt Murton - C+

Francis Beltran - not rated

Brendan Harris - B

Does anyone else find it funny that the team with the largest payroll in baseball has Sturtze AND L----- in their rotation? I mean, really.

The Red Sox save money on this Nomar deal which will most likely be used to help sign Pedro and their other FA's. With Caberera's struggles at the plate this season I don't see him commanding high dollars.

If I'm a playoff team in the NL I don't want to see the Cubs in the first round.

catchers fall of the cliff right about now

And LoDuca has been the best example of that the last few years.

They are flipping out in Boston. I just came from the S.O.S.H. board.
Didn't they know Nomar's trade value was damaged after the supposed rift with management as well as his pending free agency?

The Red Sox also gave up 2003 first round pick Matt Murton......Yikes!! Sounds like they got raped for Nomar.

I guess the problem for us in TO is that we didn't have them on the team at the same time.

I wonder what the Yankees know that we don't? Probably not much!

Sox fans crack me up. They're getting pretty vulgar over the trade. One guy even wrote Theo got DAP by the Cubs GM.

Ron, I totally agree.
The ironic aspect of the S.O.S.H. board is that Red Sox management are registered over there.I heard that majority owner John Henry has posted and some of Theo's minions also. They have an insurrection on their hands over there!!! LOL

Wait. I just thought of something funnier.
Not only are Sturtze and L----- BOTH in the Yankees' rotation, there is a good chance they will both face Toronto next week.

J.P. Riccardi has to be thanking himself he wasn't offered the red sox GM post a few years ago. LOL They are just killing the wunderkid Theo today!!!

The Red Sox save money on this Nomar deal which will most likely be used to help sign Pedro and their other FA's.

Nope...Sox fans wish that were so. This trade will actually COST the Sox MORE than if they'd just kept Nomar.

Nomar will receive $3.83MM before becoming a free agent.

GROSS SAVINGS FOR SOX = $3.83MM

Cabrera will receive $2MM before becoming a free agent. DougM will receive $933K this season PLUS $3.75MM in 2005. He also has a $3.75MM option for 2006 but we'll assume it gets bought out for $450K.

GROSS ADDED EXPENSES FOR SOX = $7.13MM

NET LOSS = $3.3MM

That's without even knowing how much cash the Sox included. They just got absolutely hosed. The defensive contributions of a 1B aren't worth anything close to what they lose in offense, cash and prospects.

I just want it on the record that in yesterday's trade thread, I wrote, of Nomar Garciaparra:

A three-way might work here too: Cabrera and Livan Hernandez to the Red Sox, Garciaparra to the Cubs, shiny pebbles and cash to the Expos.

Little did I suspect it'd be the Red Sox who get taken for a ride.

Big winner: Cubs. They get Nomar and lose Alex Gonzalez: addition by addition. They give away Beltran, who was unnecessary on that staff, and get Murton, who can hit. Fabulous deal for them.

Winner: Twins. They lose Mientkiweicz, who was redundant and was leaving anyway, and get a promising pitching prospect in Jones. The deal is tempered by the fact Jones is 19, and the injury risk is great. But the potential reward is very high, for little risk.

Break-even: Expos. Cabrera was overrated, but he still had real market value. Beltran has serious command issues and he will be a project. Harris will at least be useful at second base, but only as a placeholder. Gonzalez is an expensive, useless stiff. They don't even save money on the deal. If Beltran flourishes, it's a good deal.

Loser: Red Sox. Cabrera is not an upgrade on Nomar, not at all, and he's also a free agent. Mientkiewicz has a useful bat and a great glove, but is first-base defence really what's holding back the Red Sox? They must be counting heavily on Derek Lowe to rebound. And this means Millar's out of the lineup, unless Nixon is unavailable. Murton was a good prospect. What gets me about it is that this deal was unnecessary; it seems it was only made to get clear of Nomar, who was only a problem because the Red Sox tried to upgrade to A-Rod last winter; this looks like the sorry end of that fiasco. I read somewhere that Terry Francona said the deal will improve the clubhouse chemistry. Hey Terry, guess what: that's your job.

So the Dodgers now have an outfield of Green, Finley and Bradley, Choi at first and Dave Ross/Brent Mayne catching. That is a huge downgrade at catcher (especially if Mayne gets a lot of playing time) and Choi's bat replaces Encarnacion and Roberts's.

I'd say that's a slight net loss on offence. I also see a downgrade in the outfield defence (Finley's defence in center is below average now and Green's health problems mean he isn't anywhere near Encarnacion in that respect).

In short, I don't think LA's deals are terrible, but it's hard to see how the team improves itself for this season.

Jordan,

Do you mean they were going to trade him in the off-season? Minky was signed through 2005 with an option for 2006.

I'd say that's a slight net loss on offence.

Encarnacion and Finley might be a wash but Choi is light years better than Roberts. That difference more than offsets the loss in production at catcher.

I like Cabrera but is he that much of an upgrade over Reese. Nixon supposedly has a small hole in his quad muscle and could be done for the year. I think the deal is fair in terms of pure value given Nomar's heel and all the drama. But from a perspective of filling a need Cabrera is not needed as the CENTERPIECE of the deal. Mientkiewicz has a great glove too but I am positive they could have acquired him with other resources.

Sometime the best trades are the trades you don't make(well done JP)

I'm in another room so can't hear RSN extremely well. It sounds like Smiley said that Olerud has joined the Yankees. I see no evidence of this anywhere nor would I have imagined that this would have interested Olerud.

Sometime the best trades are the trades you don't make(well done JP)

Fancy that, he said there wasn't much the Jays were going to do and he was telling the truth. JP continues to shoot straight with baseball fans and media yet it's rare anyone does anything but discount his remarks and continues to make gross speculation (Bob Elliot, lookin' your way).

Olerud to New York? If so, that should just about make the nut for NY.

A Daily News story 10 minutes ago said Cashman reported the Yanks were "very close" to an Olerud deal. Guess all that family values talk was just that.

I just want it on the record that in yesterday's trade thread, I wrote, of Nomar Garciaparra:

A three-way might work here too: Cabrera and Livan Hernandez to the Red Sox, Garciaparra to the Cubs, shiny pebbles and cash to the Expos.

I remember Jordan, and thought it was brilliant, been watching Nomar's name since I read it!. Nice call!

Sportsnet is reported Olerud to the Yankees too..

Spicol:

I'm talking about the Red Sox saving money because Nomar will make more than the two guys they brought in today when you figure in his new deal he will get in the off-season.

The defensive contributions of a 1B aren't worth anything close to what they lose in offense, cash and prospects.

They are taking a huge shot in offense at two positions. With a starting staff that relies on the strikeout, this is frankly inexplicable. I think Theo got a wild hair that he *had* to make a deal. He's breaking up the best team in baseball (check out BPro's Third Order Standings... the Sox are easily at the top) to play it very safe at two spots in the order where they had big upside potential.

This is not how you win the World Series.

I'm talking about the Red Sox saving money because Nomar will make more than the two guys they brought in today when you figure in his new deal he will get in the off-season.

But it doesn't save the Sox money since they weren't going to resign him anyway.

Gonzalez is an expensive, useless stiff.

Not to mention demontrably #$%@$#^ing useless on carpet. Omar Minaya, you are OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE.

Mientkiewicz is in the starting lineup tonight for the Sox. Unlike most of the traded players, he just had to clean out his locker and take it over to the visitor's clubhouse.

I'll jump on the bandwagon in questioning what the Red Sox were up to.

On the one hand, defense seems so terribly important that they're comfortable carrying non-bats at 1B and SS.

On the other hand, Millar appears to be the RF replacement for Nixon, who may be done for the year. Millar be an even worse defensive outfielder than Manny Ramirez.

It's hard to reconcile today's trades with an organization that employs both Bill James and Voros McCracken, albeit for projects rather than daily input.

One of the upsides of the Twins losing Mientkewicz is that they will be less inclined to start jerking Morneau around should he go into a slump. Funny, a guy who is not major league worthy for much of the season is batting cleanup.

Funny, a guy who is not major league worthy for much of the season is batting cleanup.

Not to mention batting cleanup for a playoff-contending team. Gleeman's gotta be thrilled

Scott Erickson to Texas for PTBNL. Chan Ho Park, I hope.

Lucas, the FWST reported today that if Park does not pitch again this season that insurance will cover 80 percent of the rest of his salary. So he's not going anywhere. And Jose Canseco will pitch for the Rangers again before OutOfThe Park does.

Does anyone else find it funny that the team with the largest payroll in baseball has Sturtze AND L----- in their rotation? I mean, really.

They don't. Young kid by the name of Kevin Brown bumped Sturtze from the rotation this week. It's Vazquez, Loaiza, Brown, Hernandez and, when a fifth starter is needed, Lieber. When Mussina comes back, Lieber goes to long relief. In fact, if one of those guys got hurt right now (not terribly unlikely) then I'd bet the Yankees would go with Halsey rather than Sturtze as the fifth starter.

Lucas, the FWST reported today that if Park does not pitch again this season that insurance will cover 80 percent of the rest of his salary. So he's not going anywhere.

I was joking. Weakly.

Oh, I know! Sorry. I just thought you might not have heard that bit of fantastically good news (seriously) for Ranger fans. I hadn't.

It's Vazquez, Loaiza, Brown, Hernandez and[...]Lieber.

Well, I was close. They both will start games for the Yanks this season, nonetheless.

I think Texas has to considered a loser today as well. Though it is concievable that they might win the division if they don't wilt through August they can not be considered favorite to advance in the playoffs without something that at least resembles a major league staff. I admire Hart for sticking to his guns - so to speak - however, when a team has a legitimate shot I think the fans expect a team to go for it. Texas could eaily stumble next yr and be kicking their arse.

I really had my fingers crossed they might get a pitcher because it would have been sweet to see their offense perhaps take out the Yankee's or Bo-Sox.

Lo Duca, who must have arrived after the game started, ripped a 2-run homer in his first AB as a Marlin to give his new team the lead. Nice first impression.

Looking at Orlando Cabrera, he has a good batting eye, and has low strikeouts, with a 1:1 k:w ratio. He doesnt have alot of pop, a line drive hitter who is streaky. His defense is above average, but I doubt he's that much better than Pokey Reese. Is he worth $6+ mill?

I am happy the Sox aquired him because chances are they will resign him and that takes him off the Jays radar.

Bah. This quote from Nomar annoys me:

If it was in my control, I'd still be wearing a Red Sox uniform, because it's the place I know, I love.

It is in your control, to a considerable extent. It's called "lowering your salary demands."

Don't get me wrong: Nomar has the right to demand as much money as he thinks he deserves. But if his financial considerations outweigh his love of Boston, he should come out and admit it.

Robert, my mistake; I thought Dougie M. was a free agent after this season. I don't have his salary info for 2005; depending on how much he's making, that could actually make the deal better or worse for Boston.

Who-hoo Lo Duca! But man, to move from my third-most-hated team in the NL to my second-most? Cripes.

cubbies made out like bandits. nomar's a huge upgrade over gonzo, and they didnt give up anything else especially valuable. considering most rumors had them giving up matt clement, that they managed to hang onto him AND get nomar and a quality prospect... bravo, jim hendry.

the loaiza-contreras deal... rubbish for rubbish. loaiza's more consistant rubbish, but they both suck.

I really had my fingers crossed they might get a pitcher because it would have been sweet to see their offense perhaps take out the Yankee's or Bo-Sox.

What are you talking about? They acquired Scott Erickson! True he hasn't been any good since 1998...

They acquired Scott Erickson! True he hasn't been any good since 1998...

Yes, but he brings no-hit stuff to the mound every time, remember?

Yes, but he brings no-hit stuff to the mound every time, remember?

Damn, I was going to say that but forgot. Who first said that? Was it McCarver? I don't think Erickson ever threw a no-hitter, did he? It was a very odd thing to say about a guy who allowed over a hit an inning in his career.

Wow, huge trading action at the deadline.

I think the Red Sox could have done better, but it's clear they had limited options in moving Garciaparra. I took a look at the Sons of Sam Horn site and most Sox fans are outraged at the deal (including the loss of Murton, who seems to be highly regarded by many). I wonder, though, whether Nomar might have trouble adjusting to a new team, and new league, for two months. He's also been injured and is reportedly playing subpar defense.

In the pure speculation dept., I wonder who the Jays could have picked up for Delgado, had Carlos waived his no-trade. Maybe a good pitching prospect from LA, a prospect like Murton from the Sox, or Adrian Gonzalez from Texas? (I would still love to see the Jays acquire the latter.)

I know Gammons used to say it all the time. Even after Erickson had surgery, he'd still write stuff like "Erickson may be struggling, but still brings no-hit stuff every game" and "Erickson may have given up 8 home runs, but the batters he did get out said his stuff was filthy."

According to Dugout Dollars, Minky will make 3.5 million next year.

I don't think Erickson ever threw a no-hitter, did he?

Yup, he did. April 27, 1994 against the then-A.L. Brewers. Now, the Brew Crew had Turner Ward hitting third that day, so conclude what you will about the validity of that no-no ...

Boston made a bad deal? For this year surely.

But beyond the current year, I think the earlier window for contract talks with Cabrera, who will definitely command less dollars than Nomar, versus Nomar who won't resign is probably the reason to make the deal.

But for this year? Bad bad trade, you get ripped by Boston fans, VORP-wise, Nomar has about 15, Cabrera is at -2, Minky is at 3... ouch, I can't imagine that Nomar's defense plus whatever the redsox had at 1b (kevin millar?) is worth 14 VORP over a season.

Anyone have the RCAA numbers for the players? I'm lazy and can't seem to find Lee Sinins webpage at the moment...

Gammons in on SportsCenter saying the D-Backs actually expected the Dodgers to agree, up to the last minute, to giving them Penny, Werth AND Edwin Jackson for Johnson, and to pick up the Unit's full salary.

That can't be right. That has to be just more Gammons-speak. There is just absolutely no chance any GM would make that trade.

The Diamondbacks are even dumber than my previous post indicates if this is true ... the New York Post is claiming the D-Backs demanded Javier Vazquez and the Yankees' top five prospects for Randy Johnson.

Um ... no.

Of course, this is the same newspaper that splashed "It's Gephardt" on their front page three hours before John Kerry tabbed John Edwards as his running mate.

That can't be right. That has to be just more Gammons-speak. There is just absolutely no chance any GM would make that trade.

Mick, I'm thinking that Garagiola, on the other side, might have made that trade. You don't get to where they are today without a couple of doozies like that.