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And the grass is green
Under the three feet of the snow, I mean
This is a day when it's hard to wear a frown


Unless you're Kerry Ligtenberg, of course, who wound up wearing the goat horns in yesterday's 6-3 loss to Cleveland. Ligtenberg, to his credit, refused to use the excuse that the handling of the bullpen, as well as the left-handed nature of the batters he was asked to face, represented questionable decision-making. Still, it would be nice not to have to hear stoic acceptances of responsibility for losses so often. Here are the game reports:

MLB.com: Jays settle for split with Indians

The Sun: Indians strike in extras

The Star: No relief in sight for relief corps

Elsewhere around the e-baseball world:

* Home runs once again did in the Expos, who fell 2-1 in St. Louis on solo shots by Jim Edmonds and Scott Rolen. The Cardinals have announced that their new home field will retain the current Busch Stadium name. I'm just happy that there'll be a new ballpark named after a company I've actually heard of.

* The bench is becoming familiar territory for Kevin Cash, who made the most of his rare start yesterday afternoon. Apparently, however, he's going to sit out the entire upcoming Yankee series. Let me reiterate that in August of a lost season, there is no reason to keep a strict platoon between Cash and a thoroughly slumping Gregg Zaun -- Cash needs playing time, end of story.

* MLB's Jesse Sanchez pens this tribute to Carlos Delgado. Expect to see a lot more of these paeans to the greatest Blue Jay ever as it becomes increasingly clear that he's finished in Toronto. Hopefully, they won't get more mawkish than this one.

* A nice piece on Canadian Olympic manager Ernie Whitt, who is one of the most popular Blue Jays ever, certainly among sportswriters at any rate.

* Spencer Fordin reveals that Chris Woodward is likely suffering from colitis or Crohn's Disease, something that both could explain his bad season and make it far, far worse. I have a friend with Crohn's Disease, and it is an extremely unpleasant condition. IIRC, the Blue Jays used to do fundraising for ilietis and colitis years ago during the CTV broadcasts; does anyone know whether they're still associated with that foundation? In any event, Batter's Box sends its best wishes for a complete recovery to good health for Chris Woodward.
Jays Roundup: The Sun is Shining | 109 comments | Create New Account
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Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#45021) #
Here's wishing Chris Woodward a complete recovery and that his baseball career is not harmed by the disease.
Leigh - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#45022) #
Olympic Stadium is the Expos' North Park, whereas Hiram Bithorn is their South Park.
_Marc - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#45023) #
With any luck Crohn's disease, if that's what the problem is, won't ruin Chris' career. From what I've heard, exercise and living a healthy, active lifestyle can really help one deal with the disease.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#45024) #
There are better songs on the South Park: The Movie soundtrack than "Mountain Town," but none of their lyrics are particularly suitable for a family Website.

Leigh gets ten million points and a picture of former Deputy Prime Minister John Manley:

_Keith Talent - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#45025) #
the Blue Jays used to do fundraising for ilietis and colitis years ago during the CTV broadcasts

Oh yeah, it was really effective. As soon as I heard colitis and Chron's Disease I immediately thought of those old Blue Jay broadcasts. They really got that message across. I think that fundraising was a concerted effort by the Blue Jay wives, and when the 80s core split up so did the fundraising.

I think it's far more effective if the team concentrates on one major fundraising effort, rather than spreading themselves thin over 20 charities. There was some thing with breast cancer this year. But breast cancer is already high in public awareness. Chron's Disease was something the 80s Jays created an awareness for. That's the power of a ML ballclub.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:47 AM EDT (#45026) #
I think a former Flames player had Crohn's disease. Theo Fleury, maybe?

At any rate, best wishes to Chris Woodward.
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#45027) #
How you could pass up What Would Brian Boitano Do? for Mountain Town is beyond me. What a hilarious, and very well-done, movie.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:57 AM EDT (#45028) #
Speaking of which, the South Park guys are releasing a new movie this October:

Team America - World Police

Looks absolutely hilarious. I'll be the first in line to see that one.
_Paul D - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#45029) #
The guys who run South Park are geniususes. Which I'm obviously not, based on my spelling of the word. I'd forgotten about South Park until last fall when my brother convinced me to watch some of the newer episodes. And I am very glad that I did. I love how they have no boundary they won't cross and no person they won't offend.
_Randy Winter - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#45030) #
I don't think there is a cure for colitis, although it can go into remission.

For those in Canada, M & M Meat Shops is a strong supporter of the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of Canada.
_ScottS - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#45031) #
I don't think there is a cure for colitis, although it can go into remission.
That's correct. It's usually treated with drugs, particularly steroids, although it depends on the severity, I think. My sister has colitis, and was treated this way. She's in remission now, but one result of the treatment is a continually supressed immune system.
Crohn's disease is worse, I think. I have a friend with Crohn's, and although he leads a relatively normal life, he occasionally (like every few years) will have problems that can require surgery to remove a part of his colon. He's on a relatively restricted diet because of this.

I too wish Chris the best.
_shill - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#45032) #
That's the former Maple Leaf... Shane Corson... who also battles Chron's Disease...
_Jim - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#45033) #
Kevin Dineen of Hartford, Philadelphia and Columbus suffered with Chron's for most of his career.
Named For Hank - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#45034) #
I dated a girl with Crohn's for a couple of years. She had arthritis at 17 as a side effect from the steroids and was looking at a surgical option. Best of luck, Woody.

I nabbed the Sports section of the dead tree version of the Globe and Mail today on the GO train, and there was a great profile of Jason Bay's sister, Lauren Bay, who is the ace on the staff of our Olympic softball team. Last season she averaged 13 strikeouts per game.
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#45035) #
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michael/long121801.asp
Not to turn anything too political, but I was somewhat suprised to see that Trey Parker and Matt Stone are both Republicans. It's unexpected given their support of the first ammendment (something the FCC amd Michael Powell are attacking), and the fact that strong family values groups, which are predominantly conservative, tried to shut down South Park when it first came out.

That being said, Parker and Stone take on idiots from both side of the equation, often in a hilarious manner. They'll talk about any person or any issue and they won't toe the line because it's PC or just become the accepted discourse on the subject. Even if you don't agree with their opinion on a certain subject, they almost always make strong, valid points while stating it, which is all you can really ask.
_Mosely - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#45036) #
Graeme Lloyd's wife died recently because of complications from Crohn's I believe.

I have firsthand knowledge of what it's like to live with a stomach disease so I too wish Woody all the best. Hopefully they can get on top of it in a hurry.

On a happier topic, I'd like to congratulate Jordan on not including a Gowan song in any of this week's roundups. Job well done.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#45037) #
Don't forget, I have Monday and Tuesday's Roundups, too. Better extinguish those burning torches of hope.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#45038) #
More than anything, Parker and Stone are anti-totaliarian, which would make them outsiders in either big American political party. This decade has been rough on Libertarian minded people in North America, as all parties are preaching increased government control in certain areas and Libertarian parties have been unable to become mainstream moderate alternatives.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#45039) #
Thanks again for helping me out on these Roundups, Jordan. I'm taking the morning off from moving. Between moving and slow pitch, I've strained muscle groups I didn't even know I had! :)
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#45040) #
Mike, I always thought the duo were libertarian, too. Or at least that's how they struck me.

However, when they call themselves Republican, it's hard to argue that they're not. I guess they're probably on the fringes of the party in any case, as they aren't part of the Religious Right, and they do seem more moderate on some social issues.
_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#45041) #
The Cardinals have announced that their new home field will retain the current Busch Stadium name. I'm just happy that there'll be a new ballpark named after a company I've actually heard of.

It's funny, you hear the names Busch Stadium and Wrigley Field and they are so old and so entrenched that you don't (or at least I don't) automatically think "corporate America". They just sound like "natural" ballpark names. Of course they reflect the teams' ownership but to the credit of their owners, at least the park names roll of the tongue a little easier than the name-for-sale multi-worded corporate epithets now so ubiquitous.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#45042) #
I can understand where Parker and Stone are coming from. It's sort of like being a Libertarian Tory or a Red Tory in Canada. There's still a few of us who haven't completely lost interest in politics or defected to the Green Party. :)
_Paul D - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#45043) #
It's hard for the Libetarian party to gain any traction because their leader is nuts. (I guess the two party state isn't helping either)
robertdudek - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#45044) #
It's quite simple - Busch and Wrigley are the names of actual people. SBC, Network Associates, PNC, Bank One, Minute Maid (nee Enron) and all the others are not.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#45045) #
What? Are you telling me there's no actual Minute Maid? The woman who serves delicious orange juice in less than sixty seconds? Anathema!

Next you'll be saying Sara Lee is a fictional corporate character.
_Paul D - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#45046) #
I saw this somewhere else and I don't remember where, but I think it's nice to refer to the Astros as the Minute Maidens.

Didn't Stone and Parker have a show called "Not my Bush" set in the White House?
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#45047) #
Yes, they did. It didn't last very long, though. What the reason(s) for that were, I don't know. I don't recall a lot about the show to be honest.
_Rob - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#45048) #
Next you'll be saying Sara Lee is a fictional corporate character.

Jordan, I hate to tell you this, but you know Little Debbie?...
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#45049) #
Moffatt, come over to the Green Party. Us Red Tories miss you.

I always got a kick out of NDPers who complained Green was taking away there vote. Almost nobody who voted Green ever voted NDP. Heaven knows I haven't.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#45050) #
It was called "That's My Bush!". I only saw one episode. It was funny, but not laugh out loud funny.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#45051) #
We should talk sometime Andrew S. E-mail address is economics.guide@about.com :)
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#45052) #
Next you'll be saying Sara Lee is a fictional corporate character.

I'm sorry, she's with me now.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#45053) #
LOL Craig.

Speaking of food products, this conversation reminds me of one of my all-time favourite Simpsons lines:

    Homer: Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some Tang, it'd be you.

Heheheheheh.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#45054) #
I'm sorry, she's with me now.

Oh, man. I know they said no one doesn't like Sara Lee, but really....
_jayfaninbrookly - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#45055) #
on Parker and stone's not my bush, they also made a show not my gore
before the results of the 2000 election and would broadcast the one who actually won

also, for jay fans in the nyc area, carlos tosca will be on 1050espn radio this morning in the next half hour or so.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#45056) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1853208
COMN for an interesting story: super-agent Jeff Moorad is reportedly going to join the Diamondbacks' front office. Imagine how much they must be paying him to give up being an agent.

Remember several years ago, when Moorad filled in as General Manager of the Blue Jays for a few days? He engineered a swap of two of his players, Shawn Green and Raul Mondesi, and managed to squeeze an extension for Mondesi out of Gord Ash before he let Ash back into his seat. Nice work, especially considering neither of his clients ever really earned their fat contracts. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of free-agent deals Arizona puts together with Moorad in the house.
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#45057) #
Matt Stone had a seemingly enlightened view of violence, youth and the effects of growing up in a small town when Michael Moore interviewed him in Bowling for Comlumbine. I wonder which Republican policies he finds particularly appealing.
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#45058) #
If someone wants to argue that the Green took away the NDP vote more than the Conservative or Liberal vote overall, I would say that's wrong. However, I believe that uninformed voters voting for the Greens took away from the NDP vote, and that if the Green's platform was more well-known, there would have been some, probably not very many, who never voted Green in the first place.

Consider that a sizable portion of the electorate is relatively uninformed, or at least is solely informed through the front page of the Sun or Star. The Green party got pretty minimal coverage during the campaign from most major news sources, whatever scant coverage they received was relegated to the latter half of the newsbroadcasts or main section of the newspaper, and not as likely to be read or seen.

The Green party, based on name alone, sounds left-wing because the environment is typically seen as an issue that liberals will care about more than conservatives. I think people would peg them as a left-wing party if they knew nothing about their policy, and that was my first impression of them too. My argument is that there are a number of people who voted for them without really knowing their policy, just as there are a number of people who vote for every party without really knowing their policy. However, in the Greens case it is more significant because the name and the platform of the party don't really coincide. Everyone knows where to put the NDP or Liberals on the political spectrum, with the Greens they'd think one place, but in reality its somewhere different.

It's not inconceivable that there were a number of people who voted for the Green party, but aren't conservative. They didn't want to vote Liberal because of the sponsorship scandal and they viewed the NDP as too left-wing, or they wanted to try to get the Green party more visibility.

It wasn't thousands of votes in each riding. That's an exaggeration. But was it enough to make potentially make a difference in a couple of ridings across the country? Yes, I believe it was. Consider just three ridings in BC:

New Westminster-Coquitlam - Lost by 103 votes to Con - Green won 2,684 votes
Southern Interior - NDP lost by 680 votes to Con - Green won 3,663 votes
Vancouver Island North - NDO lost by 483 votes to Con - Green won 4,456 votes

I'd argue its very possible, and in fact probable that 1/26, 1/10 and up to 1/6 of Green voters could by misinformed leftists. Uninformed Green supporters, I myself talked to one who fit the profile I described above exactly, probably did cost the NDP at least a couple of seats.

That's not a lot, but it could have made a difference in those ridings. And every seat counts, especially when the party is already getting screwed out of seats by the electoral system anyway.
_Paul D - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#45059) #
Yeah wait, didn't the South Park guys make that cartoon for Bowling for Columbine?

Anyways... Cuban 1B Kendry Morales has just defected to the Dominican and become a free agent. Everything I've read about him suggests that he's the real deal, and only in his early to mid 20's. I realize that it's very unlikely that the Jays would sign him... but is it impossible? Is there, say a 10% chance they'd use some of Delgado's money to go after him?

Also, I wonder if the Jays could have gotten Choi. A Choi/Phelps platoon would be insane.
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#45060) #
What, no e-mail address for me Mike?
Thomas - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#45061) #
What, no e-mail address for me Mike? :)
_Smack - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#45062) #
And I know the PCL is a hitters paradise, but Calvin Pickering has been good all year. Prying him from the Royals shouldnt be hard, at most a fringe prospect, cash etc. He is old enough to give the majors another shot, and can fill the void of a lefty slugging 1B. Thoughts?
_R Billie - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#45063) #
Hey if you can get him for little investment then I would keep him around as depth in the minors at least.
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#45064) #
Glad you wrote that, Thomas. It was what I was thinking but didn't have time to write...We also got screwed out of a seat in Trinity-Spadina.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#45065) #
Yeah wait, didn't the South Park guys make that cartoon for Bowling for Columbine?

They didn't. As far as I can tell they had nothing to do with it, but the cartoon certainly is in their style, hence the confusion. Plus Matt Stone also appears in the movie at one point, which only adds to the confusion.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#45066) #
I always got a kick out of NDPers who complained Green was taking away there vote.

I think Jack should be more concerned about the Liberals and the Conservatives taking away votes. Were it not for those two parties, the NDP would do well. ;)
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#45067) #
Were it not for those two parties, the NDP would do well. ;)

I understand this is being said sarcastically but nonetheless...If the Liberals ran a campaign based on their policies -- not slightly a adapted version of NDP social policy (which is generally left in the dust after E-Day) -- we might have a very different political scene. Case in point: yesterday Bill Graham announced the next step in partnering with the US on weaponization of space (an intention the Liberals categorically denied on the campaign trail).
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#45068) #
If the Liberals ran a campaign based on their policies

Yeah, but then they'd lose. The Liberals aren't about ideological purity or being honest to voters. They're about winning. And they're exceptionally good at it.
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#45069) #
I know the PCL is a hitters paradise, but Calvin Pickering has been good all year. Prying him from the Royals shouldnt be hard, at most a fringe prospect, cash etc. He is old enough to give the majors another shot, and can fill the void of a lefty slugging 1B. Thoughts?

Pickering is the reason the NRI was invented. He's on a one-year deal, and he won't re-up with the Royals in any circumstances after this year.

I would definitely bring him in and see what he can do, maybe even sign him to a guaranteed minimum deal if that's what it takes and there isn't another 1B out there who tickles my fancy in the free agent market.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#45070) #
Surely Jim Bloom can do something involving Calvin Pickering and that metro sprawl east of Scarborough, can't he?
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#45071) #
I would definitely bring him in and see what he can do, maybe even sign him to a guaranteed minimum deal if that's what it takes and there isn't another 1B out there who tickles my fancy in the free agent market.

I second this. The Jays could use another left-handed bat on the bench or to DH. I wonder if there's some sort of horrible personality issues that are keeping Pickering out of the bigs.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#45072) #
Maybe Calvin does have a personality issue but more likely it's just discrimination against fat people and the stereotypical, but often incorrect, assumption that fat athletes have no work ethic.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#45073) #
For those who are wondering what the heck I'm talking about, Pickering is listed at 6'5" and 278 pounds.
_Paul D - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#45074) #
Spicol, my worry is that I'm not sure how the knees of a guy that size will hold up.
That said, NRI sounds good to me. Unless we get Morales.
Leigh - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#45075) #
The Liberals aren't about ideological purity

Right on, Mike. I had a conversation with a friend the other day about how much more difficult it must be for a Liberal candidate to learn her platform than it is for a New Democrat or a Conservative.

On most issues, it is easy to determine what the position of either the Orange or Blue platform would be, without looking it up or having memorized it. With the Red Book, however, the only guiding campaign principle is popular opinion (only the campaigning, however; popular opinion doesn't seem to govern their governance).

The result is a scattered platform.

I know that there is a joke to be made about the study of the scattered Liberal platform requiring a scatologist, but it just doesn't seem to want to formulate itself.
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#45076) #
http://abshanno@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca
No, but my point is more like this: For every one vote the Green were taking away from the NDP, we were probly taking 3 votes away from the conservatives. So the Green vote probly didn't cost the NDP any seats unless somehow we could've magically syphoned only conservatives voters who are Red Tories and agree with Brison's statement about Red Tories and Red Necks, or Liberal voters who feel that Martin needs to earn his office or the Liberals need to be humbled a bit to reign in corruption, but not NDP voters who... which is the ultimate truth of the issue. The Green Party offers something to voters who'd normally align with either the Conservatives or Liberals, but it didn't really offer anything to traditional NDPers.

Ultimately, a lot of Red Tories have been drifting Liberal in the last ten or so years (Paul Martin may not be Bill Davis, but he's still quite a good option to a lot of Red Tories), and the Green offered an alternative that a lot of us took (My decision was especially easy living in Pickering-Scarborough East, which had no good candidates in the riding anyhow). The candidate for Green in my riding cut his teeth as an assistant to Scott Brison [Red Tory] and even Jim Harris was a former PC.

Yes, the reason the Liberals do well is that they tailor their platform to the opinions/desires of Canadians. Why this is seen as a bad thing is beyond me. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've always valued politicians who'll comprimise their promises/policy/ideology when it's clearly not the right way to go, or when the people don't want it. I probly wouldn't have voted for him had I been old enough, but I have a *lot* of respect for Bob Rae's decision to alienate his support base in order to cut government spending during a recession.
Gerry - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#45077) #
Speaking of first base prospects I have seen Buffalo a couple of times this year and they have Eric Crozier playing first base. Crozier was not listed in either of the prospect books but he is having a great year in AAA. Crozier is a lefty and stands about 6'4", 200 lbs.

He was a late round draft choice (41st) in 2000 out of Norfolk State University. He does not appear to have started playing professionally until 2002 but he was an all-star in the Carolina League that year hitting .326 with a 931 OPS.

He struggled last year at AA, hitting only .245, but he did have 19 home runs. Now this year he is hitting .297 and has 20 home runs. His OBP is .375 and his slugging is .571. From what I have seen he looks OK offensively. Now he will be 26 next week but if the Jays are looking for a cheaper alternative he might be worth a look, his path to Cleveland is blocked by Travis Hafner.
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#45078) #
Right on, Mike. I had a conversation with a friend the other day about how much more difficult it must be for a Liberal candidate to learn her platform than it is for a New Democrat or a Conservative.

It's ridiculously easy for Conservative candidates. At the start of the next election each candidate is going to get a memo saying:
    For the love of God, please, PLEASE, don't open your mouths.

    Yours truly,

    Stephen
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#45079) #
I had a conversation with a friend the other day about how much more difficult it must be for a Liberal candidate to learn her platform than it is for a New Democrat or a Conservative.

Whatever do you mean? The candidate walks into a room, tests the waters to see what his/her community thinks, then issues a statement that agrees with as many of them as possible -- except for the three people at the back who the Liberal labels as irrational, un-Canadian ideologues.
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#45080) #
http://abshanno@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca
Hey, uh, is it acceptable to be littering this forum with political sniping?
_Rob - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#45081) #
Moffatt - shouldn't that memo be:
"CHECK OUT PM FELL ASLEEP WITH FRISBEE-"

Never mind, I'll stop.
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#45082) #
Hey, uh, is it acceptable to be littering this forum with political sniping?

No, but we are very tolerant. :)
Named For Hank - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#45083) #
ROB HIT GRAND SLAM NOW
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#45084) #
"CHECK OUT PM FELL ASLEEP WITH FRISBEE-"

LOL. I don't think we should get into political text messages. That could get really ugly really fast. Though the above was funny.

NFH GET A HAIRCUT U HIPPIE - MOFFATT
_Rob - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#45085) #
Are you kidding? My lifetime batting average, in all forms of baseball, is .056 -- two for 36.
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#45086) #
Well, at least I didn't start it, even if I brought some gas

TERRY WHERE DID YOU LEAVE THE GAS CANS? - KERRY

NEVERMIND I FOUND THEM - KERRY
_Magpie - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#45087) #
In unrelated news, Don Mattingly has evidently identified a mechanical flaw in John Olerud's swing (a flaw? in Olerud's swing??). Something about his hip movement.

Anyway, Johnny O is 5-8 with 4 RBI's since joining the MFYs.
_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#45088) #
Spicol, my worry is that I'm not sure how the knees of a guy that size will hold up.

They've only got hold up for 12 months at a time. Pickering will be a year-to-year player for whatever there is left of his career. He's 28 now. Even if he were to turn into a useful major leaguer in 2005, he wouldn't be in a position to seek a multi-year deal until he was 34. He ain't gonna last until he's 34, not at 300 pounds.
_GregH - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#45089) #
Interesting piece about Ernie Whitt.

Assuming TC does not get a new contract or extension and assuming the Olympic squad wins at least a Bronze Medal, any thoughts on Ernie as Manager for 2005?
Named For Hank - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#45090) #
WHOS TALKING ABOUT HAIR MOFFATT YOU COMMIE
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#45091) #
JOSE LIMA, YOU THE MAN - STEVE GARVEY
_Loveshack - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#45092) #
Yes, the reason the Liberals do well is that they tailor their platform to the opinions/desires of Canadians. Why this is seen as a bad thing is beyond me.

Well it wouldnt be so bad if they actually did half the things they said. The problem as I see it is that they don't follow through on what they say. They tell people what they want to hear in order to get elected and soon as they're in power the platform they campaigned on goes out the window for the next four years.

I realize that it's impossible but my ideal candidate has three qualities: A clear and intelligent vision/plan, the ability to re-evaluate and compromise that plan if it's not going to work or major flaws are revealed, amd also the ability to stick to their guns if the plan is a good one but will be unpopular.
_perlhack - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#45093) #
Yesterday's Globe and Mail had an interesting snippet. It was in the From the Archives section (50 Years Ago Today, page R7 ??, same page as Obituaries).

The gist of it was, that in August 1954 the Globe reported that a ways and means committee had been created by the city to lure an MLB team to Toronto (it didn't say whether it was an existing team or an expansion team).

I know there was interest in the late 60s and early 70s which eventually resulted in the Blue Jays, but I hadn't been aware that there had been a previous effort to land a team in TO. Does anyone have more information about this? Does anyone with access to newspaper archives want to dig up the story? (The libraries in my area are bereft of these archives, and google wasn't helpful.)
_Loveshack - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#45094) #
Oh and sorry for being late on the politic talk, I need to post faster I guess.

I wonder if Phelps will be in the game tonight. A stiff neck kept him out of the game last night, maybe he'll get a turn at 1B tonight if he's over it.
_Rob - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#45095) #
I doubt Phelps will get the start against Javy Vasquez.
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#45096) #
Andrew, on Olivia Chow's campaign we had a surprising number of Red Tories who came on board as supporters and volunteers -- and these weren't your run of the mill campaign workers either. A couple were highly adept to running the communications side of campaigns and one had even managed a Tory campaign.

As uncomfortable as it was for folks like me who like their socialist protest party (that holds the balance of power), the NDP took one big step towards becoming a 'big tent' party in the last election.
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#45097) #
A

Yeah, being a Red Tory is supposed to, among other things, include characteristics such as flexibility and the desire to balance everyone's wants and needs. The loss of this sort of inclusiveness among Conservatives in this country is what has made us a ship without a Harbour. Olivia Chow is a very good politician, and someone I could get behind, especially if I were angry over the Liberal corruption (I'm not, but lots of people are).

Realistically, in Canada, the support drops about 1/3 to the right (Conservatives), 1/3 in the middle (Liberals) and 1/3 on the left (Bloc + NDP). The NDP don't have to be a protest party, what they need to do is do a good job of running a province so they can be trusted at the next level. And when I say "a province" I mostly mean Ontario or BC. Alberta or Quebec would also do, but we all know that's never going to happen.
_GregH - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#45098) #
Does anyone have more information about this?

Perlhack:

I don't have any real sources to refer you to, but I know there was interest for a long time. The old Maple Leaf Stadium (where the International League Toronto Maple Leafs used to play, probably built in the 1920's) was deliberately built with foundations strong enough to support an added upper deck in the event of a MLB team coming to Toronto.

There is a book out there called Diamonds of the North (forget the author's name, surname might be Humber), published around 1993 which is about the origins of baseball in Canada. It is a fascinating read - baseball goes much further back and much deeper in Canada than many realize. I think there may be something in there about early attempts to get MLB teams.

Interesting factoid from that book - until well into the 1920's, newspapers in Toronto and Montreal gave far more coverage to baseball than they did to hockey.
_Jacko - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#45099) #

Maybe Calvin does have a personality issue but more likely it's just discrimination against fat people and the stereotypical, but often incorrect, assumption that fat athletes have no work ethic.

Because of his weight, Pickering has difficulty staying healthy. He's missed almost 1/3 of Omaha's games this year, mostly due to injuries.

He should hire a personal trainer and a dietician get his weight down to 250. Because the extra weight is all that's standing between him and making millions playing in the big leagues. He can obviously hit.
_Jobu - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#45100) #
until well into the 1920's, newspapers in Toronto and Montreal gave far more coverage to baseball than they did to hockey.

Wow! And it hasnt changed in all these years!? That incredible. Now if you'll excuse me Im just going to read my Toronto Star.... oh wait. Nevermind my earlier comments.
_Daryn - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#45101) #
I hope I didn't miss this as I scanned through.

Tom Heinke and Duane Ward used to support Colitis..

as I say it now, "Ileitis(sp?) and Colitis" sounds familiar, and then it got changed to Crohns
_alsiem - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#45102) #
There is an urban myth about Babe Ruth playing at Hanlan's Point.

What is the myth? Did Ruth ever play a game in Toronto? Or is the report that he hit a homer out of the park and into the lake the myth.

Or the third option, I'm too cynical and it all happend.
_Stan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#45103) #
Back in the fifties, Jack Kent Cooke was trying to get a major league team for Toronto. He kept getting rebuffed and was getting not much help from the city. He eventually moved to LA and the rest is history. I was weaned on baseball with the Toronto Maple Leafs. The streetcar stopped right in front of the stadium. They even outdrew a few major league teams.
_Stan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#45104) #
Apparently Babe Ruth played for Providence in the International League as did Toronto. The stadium used to be on the island and it is where he hit his first professional home run which is supposed to have landed in the lake.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#45105) #
Because of his weight, Pickering has difficulty staying healthy. He's missed almost 1/3 of Omaha's games this year, mostly due to injuries.

Pickering has missed time this year due to a concussion and an injured finger. Which one of those is due to his weight?
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#45106) #
On the subject of Ruth's first professional home run:

It's hardly surprising that the ball would have landed in the lake.

picture-of-hanlans-point-1919 (100k image)

Here is a photo of the old Hanlan's Point stadium as it would have been situated during Ruth's visits with Baltimore in the 1910's. The ballfield is at the right of the photo, on the very end of Hanlan's Point.

Notice how the RF fence is right on the water. A lefty like Ruth would likely have hit a "splash shot" if he'd done anything better than just get it over the wall.
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#45107) #
Pickering has missed time this year due to a concussion and an injured finger. Which one of those is due to his weight?

"The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To order a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm... now."
_Jacko - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#45108) #

Pickering has missed time this year due to a concussion and an injured finger. Which one of those is due to his weight?

Neither.

I made an assumption and I was wrong.

However, guys his weight end up having short careers. See Vaughn, Mo.

Are you implying that he's just fine and shouldn't change a thing?
Craig B - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#45109) #
He's hitting .314/.439/.709. There is *nothing* wrong with him.

Frankly, I wouldn't change anything, though I understand the argument that he should for the sake of his career.
_Stan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#45110) #
Thanks for the picture Craig. I was always under the impression he played for Providence and grew up in Baltimore
_Dan H - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#45111) #
Pickering has missed time this year due to a concussion and an injured finger. Which one of those is due to his weight?

"The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To order a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm... now."


Best use of a Simpson's reference ever...
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#45112) #
However, guys his weight end up having short careers. See Vaughn, Mo.

Granted. While we can't know if all keypad mashers will have short careers, it's likely the majority will. But that shouldn't be the case for why he hasn't had an extended shot at the Bigs. Big, meaty thighs might be a reason why you don't give Pickering a long term contract but surely he should get a chance to produce.

Are you implying that he's just fine and shouldn't change a thing?

Gosh no. Losing weight could extend his career and avoid injuries which could come due to his weight, even if that hasn't been his reason for missing time this year. I was simply sugesting that his weight and the discrimination fat athletes face (gotta fill out that uniform nicely, for some stupid reason) is probably why teams haven't given him a fair shot so far.
_Simon - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#45113) #
There were a lot of efforts to get baseball to Toronto. If I remember correctly, back in like the late '60s there was quite a bit of talk that the Giants would be moved here. It came pretty close to happening, I believe, but when that fell through, we went the expansion route.
_Christopher - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#45114) #
Well it wouldnt be so bad if they actually did half the things they said.

I think that's the key there. If McGuinty could actually deliver on all his promises, I wouldn't have a problem with him.

nobody doesn't like Sarah Lee

I always, always, always thought the slogan was "nobody does it like Sarah Lee" until about a year ago. I was baffled when they had a commercial that wrote it out like that. Anyone else?
_Randy Winter - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#45115) #
That's right, Simon. They were supposedly to be called the Toronto Towers, after the CN Phallic Symbol.
_Jordan - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#45116) #
They were supposedly to be called the Toronto Towers

What is it with this national urge to name our baseball teams after giant civic projects? Neither New York nor St. Louis felt like naming themselves after their respective World's Fairs, yet Montreal decided to immortalize the '67 Expo. (Do they even have an Expo anymore? The last one I remember was in Vancouver in '86).

Anyway, at least they weren't named after a lizard in a popular '90s movie.
_Wunderbat - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#45117) #
Did anyone other than me own a Turbografx 16? If so, did you come across World Class Baseball? I only bring it up because it didn't have licensing only generic teams, and the Toronto team was the Toronto Towers. Almost every other team name was a terrible pun. For example, there were the New York Fries, and my personal favourite, the Peking Ducks. I kid you not; I'm not that funny.
Named For Hank - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#45118) #
My brother and I would play that game for hours on end.

The Ducks...they were awful. Japan kicked everyone's ass.
_Blue in SK - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#45119) #
http://www.oklahomaredhawks.com/stats/?type=batting
Speaking of possible alternatives to Delgado, it think this is a situation where JP will have to make a move from where our strengths are as an organization, and to me that means from our bevy of pitching prospects.

The player that interests me is Adrian Gonzalez of the Rangers. A former #1 pick overall in 2000, the Rangers acquired him from the Marlins last year in a deal for Ugeth Urbina.

Like Crozier, his path is also blocked to the majors by a someone named Teixeira.

Maybe Cash (the player) and Rosario, would land us Gonzalez.

COMN for his stats this year. 299/363/450; 59/30 K:BB ratio; 10 HRs and 17 doubles.

Thoughts?

I hope the same post doesn't appear twice, I lost the original between Preview and Post, and had to re-create it.
_Wunderbat - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#45120) #
By my favourite, I meant favourite pun. My favourite team to play as was the Sharks (I can't remember the associated city). I loved there crazy sidearmers out of the bullpen. I wonder if that was the first baseball game to have a minor league system. Albeit, each team's minor league team consisted of only 4-5 guys. I am definitely playing game when I get home from work. What a game.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#45121) #
this is a situation where JP will have to make a move from where our strengths are as an organization

Funny you mention trading prospects for prospects because just yesterday, I was trying to recall what prospects JP has acquired through trade.

Hinske
Miller
Griffin
Arnold
Hattig

Is that all? Ricketts, Wiggins and Brian Cooper don't count - I mean real prospects. Prokopec doesn't count either as he had significant Major League experience when he came here.

For a team trying to get younger, it's remarkable that nearly everything important in the system has been home grown.
_Ryan01 - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#45122) #
hmm..there's Frasor (via Werth who we traded for as a prospect) and Deschaine.
_Spicol - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#45123) #
hmm..there's Frasor (via Werth who we traded for as a prospect) and Deschaine.

Nice. Thanks. Deschaine didn't work out but he was semi-highly regarded at the time. How did I miss Frasor?

The deal that brought Werth here was an Ash trade.
_Brent - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#45124) #
I'm off to New York folks. I'm flying down tomorrow morning and I'll be catching tomorrow afternoon's game somewhere down the right field line. I'll be the guy being pelted with beer as I start a "Going Going Zaun" chant.

See you on Monday.
_A - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#45125) #
Apologies to those who have already seen this joke but I laughed enough to warrant a poist :-)...

Three elderly ladies are excited about seeing their first
baseball game. They smuggle a bottle of Jack Daniel's into the ballpark. The game is really exciting and they are enjoying themselves immensely mixing the Jack Daniel's with soft drinks.

Finally one of them passes out.

Soon they realize that the bottle is almost gone and the game has a lot of innings to go.

Based on the given information, what inning is it and how many
players are on base?


Think!

Think some more!!

You're gonna love it......

Answer:

It's the bottom of the fifth, one out, and the bags are
loaded........
_Moffatt - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#45126) #
Did anyone other than me own a Turbografx 16? If so, did you come across World Class Baseball? I only bring it up because it didn't have licensing only generic teams, and the Toronto team was the Toronto Towers. Almost every other team name was a terrible pun. For example, there were the New York Fries, and my personal favourite, the Peking Ducks. I kid you not; I'm not that funny.

I have a huge soft spot for World Class Baseball on the Turbografx 16. I spent way too much of my highschool years playing the game.

My favourite player is the leadoff hitter on the Moscow Bears who is about a .120 hitter but runs twice as fast as anyone in the game. I mean, speed is important at leadoff, but you can take it to far. :)

It's the New York Apples, btw. They're my team since we always had a "No Tokyo" rule. (The Tokyo Ninjas were so much better than the other league teams it wasn't funny)
_Smack - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#45127) #
A, why the fifth inning?
_Andrew S - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#45128) #
A fifth is the name for a 26er of liquor, I think it's a fifth of an gallon or some other God Forsaken imperial unit.
_GregH - Friday, August 06 2004 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#45129) #
If I remember correctly, back in like the late '60s there was quite a bit of talk that the Giants would be moved here.

It was actually in 1974 or 1975. I remember being unbelievably excited along with my friends about it, and then horribly disappointed when it fell through. The Toronto Star actually ran a headline when it looked like a done deal: "TORONTO GIANTS!!!" I have a copy of the paper somewhere amongst my junk.
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