I'm guessing the success of the young Marlins rotation in 2006 and the presence of the Yanks big 3 had something to do with the decision...

I wish him the best, but the New York Yankees brand is a lot to take on for a manager who has only managed for one year.

And that one year was a 78-84 year at that.

It's not like Terry Francona or Joe Torre had impeccable records before taking the big-market jobs (some good years, some bad) but at least they had records.

I realize this isn't the right place for this, but Renteria just got traded to the Tigers.

JP?  Hello?  Are you there?

For what they gave up, I'd say the Tigers just got a steal.

The Tigers did pretty well, mainly by making this deal happen so fast while I'm guessing a good portion of major league teams didn't get in on negotiations.

I'm not sure if critiquing JP really applies here...I think the critiquing happened at the time McDonald's contract was signed because it seemed likely the Jays were not going to be involved in serious attempt to upgrade the position.  The Tigers meanwhile become a deeper offensive team while not hurting their present day roster.  Of course, they had a bit of perceived value on their side...Hernandez won his league's MVP although Snider is a better player. 

Would you want the Jays to trade a guy like Snider for Renteria?  I wouldn't want to do that deal if I could help it.

Renteria wouldn't help the Jays that much. He has massive left-right splits (like the rest of the team). Over the last 3 years he has a 738 ops vs righties, 906 vs lefties. Certainly an upgrade over McDonald, but probably not worth his 10 million dollar contract.

Snider isn't really a good comp for Hernandez. I think the closest Jays comparable to the package the Tigers sent Atlanta's way would be Jesse Litsch & Yohermyn Chavez. Would you give that up for Renteria? I'm not sure, to be honest. Renteria's D is not very good anymore and he's been up and down with the bat the last four years. I'd give up Litsch alone for him but I don't have a great read on what type of player Chavez is going to end up being. There's also the question of whether the Braves would have valued those two as highly as they did the Detroit pair.

Right now, that doesn't seem very much. Jurrjens has never played at AAA.

Obviously they wanted Gorky Hernandez, a speedy Center Field who will likely hit leadoff. The Jays could also use one of those, although this one is probably 2~3 years away from the bigs.

Makes me wonder what Baltimore will get for Tejada and his 14 million a year.

the success of the young Marlins rotation in 2006

The other side of that coin is the way the whole group just fell to pieces in 2007. Dontrelle Willis and Scott Olsen both made it through the year in one piece, but both posted 10-15 records with ERAs over 5.00. In the NL, in a pitcher's park. Josh Johnson (12-7, 3.10 in 2006) was only able to pitch four times, and Anibal Sanchez (10-3, 2.83 with a no-hitter in 2006) made just six starts. There are people around the team who thought Girardi rode those young arms (Willis was 24 in 2006, the other three were all 22) just a little too heavily.

Of course, maybe they would have all been just fine if Girardi had come back...

Everytime I got the opportunity to watch Tejada this past year I've paid close attention. I like him, he plays hard. He's still an OK bat. .280/.337/442, 18 homers. In fact, compare him to his "new" double play partner, Hill .291/.333/.459 17 homers.

IF, we're really going to make a "push" this year I can think of worse moves to make. Say Lind and Janssen for him, resign Johnson.

Girardi managing the Yankees is a bit of a mystery; as noted, Girardi has only managed one year previously, and it went well, but with in an entirely different situation. There aren't two situations more different than Florida and the Yankees, come to think of it. Success for the Yankees won't depend on the manager next year though, it's up to the GM to bring together the pitching staff and starting lineup, with the biggest offseason challenge in yankeeland in at least 10 years. The list of free agents is damn thin this year, so Cashman and Girardi will have to trust the young pitchers through their rough spots. Maybe new Steinbrenner will wreak havok for 15 years like his Pop did.

Renteria could be worth several wins more to the Jays than McDonald ever will. McDonald just had a career year in the field and a good (for him) year at the plate, and basically came out at slightly above replacement level (WARP at 2.1, Win Shares above average = 1). Renteria is younger and his worst year, the year he spent in Boston booting the ball around, was about the same as McDonald this year. I don't really care how much he would cost; it's not my money, there seems to be enough to spend, and there's not a whole lot to spend it on elsewhere right now. If the Jays are serious about trying to win next year, this is exactly the type of upgrade they need to make.  Oh, and I know Guillen plays first base a bit, but was his defense getting bad at SS?

Oh, and congrats to the Red Sox.

Tejada was actually 296/357/442 last year.

Mylegacy: Could you shed some light on Tejada's defence?  I'm just curious because I've read alot of reports on his declining D and that he should be moved to third.

A trade for Tejada is unlikely--he's too expensive ($13M over each of the next two years), the Orioles' demands will be predictably high, and when was the last significant trade between AL East teams? Besides, I wouldn't want to give up Janssen and Lind. If the Jays aren't careful, they could turn into the Orioles of the last ten years or so--top-heavy with overpriced veterans. Go with the young (and cheap) talent, I say.

I haven't read any scouting reports on the Atlanta prospects, but they're both very young and have strong stats. It looks like a good trade for both teams. But what are the Tigers going to do with Carlos Guillen, whom they just signed to play SS through 2011?

It was posted in another thread, but Guillen can hardly even play SS now. He's really a 1B, which is where he'll be next year. Casey stinks, and will not be a starter.

Hmm...that makes sense. He's been an excellent hitter over the last four years, although he is starting to edge past his prime (he just turned 32).

Jurrjens has never played at AAA.

Well, that's true, but he was 3-1 with an ER+ of 97 with the Tigers this year and was, I believe, the youngest player in the AL. Do you really need two months with the Toledo Mud Hens to tell you the kid can pitch?

My first thought when I heard about Jurrjens being in the deal was a 1987 DET/ATL trade in which  the Tigers acquired a veteran -- pitcher Doyle Alexander, a name Jays fans still rue -- for a kid pitcher who showed promise and went on to be pretty good -- a 20-year-old righty named John Smoltz.

Obviously, JJ is unlikely to have the kind of career Smoltz has had -- but I have the feeling that around 2014, someone in Detroit is going to really regret Jair Jurrjens having an "A" on his cap rather than an old English "D."

ramone - The thing I noticed first about Tejada's defensive play was his intensity. He played hard on every ball near him, dove hard, got up fast threw hard... he CLEARLY still has a considerable hunger to do well. Great range? No, but definitely not chopped liver. As a hitter - he has a hunger there as well. I'm very impressed with the MAN.

On Girardi, wrong guy at this time. They'll have three baby (but potentially brilliant) arms - Joba, Kennedy and Hughes. I'd feel a lot better if I was a Yankee fan having Joe Torre and his 600 years experience managing, looking at their every move. I predict at least one of the three is going to experience a medical problem and that, warranted or not, it'll be blamed on BigG. 

The Tigers deal is one that will probably work out for both sides.  With Guillen moving to first, there was a gaping hole at short that is now filled.  In return the Tigers gave up two very good prospects that were probably "expendable".  There was no real room in Detroit for Hernandez with Granderson developing into a very good MLB center fielder and the future emergence of Maybin.  Jurrjens was also expendable with some of the young arms that the Tigers have coming through the system (Miller, Berzado, Porecello, etc.).

Having watched Hernandez this year on a limited basis, he is a very good defensive player and a hell of a baserunner.  Was he better than Snider in the MWL?  In some areas of his game yes, in others no.  He was a better defender and base runner however Travis Snider's offensive production was pretty incredible.  I would take Travis's production over Hernandez any day of the week however.

I think the closest Jays comparable to the package the Tigers sent Atlanta's way would be Jesse Litsch & Yohermyn Chavez. Would you give that up for Renteria?

When I was trying to think of an equivilent trade for the Jays that's exactly what I thought of.  Except that both players the Tigers gave up would probably be viewed higher than the Jays duo, particularly Hernandez.

I don't think the Braves would take that package, but I'm not sure I'd want the Jays to give that up for Renteria.  Renteria's going to dip a bit moving back to the AL, he's getting fairly old, and his range (apparently) isn't that great.  If you could guarantee his 2007 rate stats it'd probably make sense.

Steve Treder continues his Value Production Standings today in THT, bringing it up to date to 2007.  The Blue Jays have produced more talent than any other organization in baseball over the last 10 years, but have had difficulty in leveraging that talent into winning clubs.

Girardi is said to want Boston's Bullpen Coach, Gary Tuck, as his bench coach.  There was some talk here in Boston last weekend about The Red Sox denying him permission to speak with the Yankees.  Farrell is one of  two top candidates for the Pirates job.  He, more than anyone else on that staff, impressed me this summer.  If any of you read Schilling's blog...38 Pitches....Curt has some great things to say about those coaches.

Torre to the Dodgers, with both Mattingly as bench coach and Long as hitting coach?  The Yankees are saying that Long will stay in NY but a blurb on Torre this am suggests Long may go along for the ride.  Mattingly's son was drafted by the Dodgers last year remember, so this makes a nice 'get out of town' for him.

ramone - The thing I noticed first about Tejada's defensive play was his intensity. He played hard on every ball near him, dove hard, got up fast threw hard... he CLEARLY still has a considerable hunger to do well. Great range? No, but definitely not chopped liver

Basing defensive value on random subjective observation is probably not the best approach. Imagine basing opinion on hitting subjectively if we didn't have batting statistics. At any rate here's a good place to start discussion on defence based on zone data. For better accuracy compare these results with other similar systems from year to year.

With Mattingly I'd watch out for the WS curse. He joined the Yankees as a player the year after they made it to the WS (1982) and left the year before they got back (1995 was his last season). He returned in 2004 as a coach, the season after the Yankees last WS appearance.

Kind of sucks to be Don eh? Here he is, loved and viewed as a leader yet the Yankees only get to the World Series without him and have won only one playoff appearance with him which was followed by the worst collapse in baseball playoff history (up 3-0 then losing the series). Wonder if that was a factor? One has to wonder about a leader who never seems to be able to lead a group into/through the playoffs.

Chone Smith, aka Rally/Anaheim Rallymonkey of Maryland/AROM, has 2008 defensive projections based on 4 year statistics with age adjustments.

And Joe Torre goes west to lead the Dodgers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/30/bc.bbo.torre.report/index.html

RE: Travis Snider...there's a photo of Snider throwing a baseball as the intro to the Scorpion/Saguaros game... check out his bicep/elbow and chest area... no wonder he has some power...wow...http://www.mlb.com/mlb/events/winterleagues/?league=afl

I like the caption: "Former first-rounder Travis Snider...". I think you get to keep that title for life.

A trade for Tejada is unlikely--he's too expensive ($13M over each of the next two years), the Orioles' demands will be predictably high, and when was the last significant trade between AL East teams? Besides, I wouldn't want to give up Janssen and Lind. If the Jays aren't careful, they could turn into the Orioles of the last ten years or so--top-heavy with overpriced veterans. Go with the young (and cheap) talent, I say.

It's doable if they move Glauss to LA. The real problem is  the lack of young and cheap talent at any position so shifting things around doesn't help much.

The team needs a leadoff hitter more than anything else and platooning Lind in LF doesn't help with that. Will they play musical chair in the spring?