ChiSox ace Mark Buehrle threw just the 17th regular-season perfect game in MLB history today. He's also just the 24th pitcher in MLB history to toss multiple no-hitters, as this is his second.
Thanks to Bauxite Forkball for the heads up.
Let's ask the question -- Mark Buehrle, Hall of Famer?
His BBRef page suggests not ... the 133 wins is nice, the multiple no-nos is a bow on the present, but his most similar pitchers are Tom Browning (who also threw a perfect game!), Matt Morris, Larry Jansen, John Smiley, Jack McDowell, Barry Zito, Preacher Roe, Ross Grimsley, Dick Donovan and Shane Reynolds -- lots of talent, lots of wins, not a HOFer among them.
Now, his through-age-29 Most Similars is a step up -- some of the same guys, but also Johnny Podres, Frank Viola, Bret Saberhagen, Tom Glavine (who WILL be a HOFer, of course), Jerry Reuss, guys like that. His HOF Monitor and HOF Standards scores are WAYYY off target.. Funny, I would have guessed he'd be more of a borderline case!
Rosenthal says it's a long shot but that the Rays are in on Doc, Lee, and V-Mart.
But the news is he said they'd be willing to part with Kaz.
If I can get Kazmir and a couple of guys like Brignac (or Beckham) and Jennings for Doc I'm gonna go ahead and nail that down before Monday (assuming Kaz has no shoulder issues)
This is the first potential return I've heard of (save Kershaw) that really excites me.
If Doc is going to go FA no matter what, then I have to make this deal, even if I have to throw in a reliever and some cash.
http://mvn.com/thesouthpaw/2009/07/23/now-were-talking.html
But the news is he said they'd be willing to part with Kaz.
If I can get Kazmir and a couple of guys like Brignac (or Beckham) and Jennings for Doc I'm gonna go ahead and nail that down before Monday (assuming Kaz has no shoulder issues)
This is the first potential return I've heard of (save Kershaw) that really excites me.
If Doc is going to go FA no matter what, then I have to make this deal, even if I have to throw in a reliever and some cash.
http://mvn.com/thesouthpaw/2009/07/23/now-were-talking.html
I don't see the Rays signing him long term, so they're trading for a year and half and some draft picks or maybe they plan to work out a big deal during the winter.
Two runs at a ring and two picks. the two picks are of similar value to the two prospects I mentioned, or at least close enough to make the deal workable, IMO
SI has confirmed a rumour that the Angels are interested in Kazmir and that the Rays are scouting the Angels' farm system. They're speculating that this might free up salary and allow the Rays to take on Halladay (or Lee or Martinez - though my guess is they need pitching more than hitting).
If the Rays were in play for Halladay, and the Jays got David Price back, I'd be quite happy. Despite the control problems this year, Price is ace material and his frame suggests that he should be less injury prone than Kazmir too.
The question is whether Kazmir is done? If not, than trading Doc for him and prospects would mean the Jays still might continue next year. Kazmir is a step down from Roy, but before this year, he had 4 years with an ERA+ of at least 116 (116, 142, 130, 127). In that case, should the Jays still move Downs, Rios, etc?
From the Rays perspective, it seems odd to give up on Kaz, but I guess if you want to win this year, he is not helping you. (And of course there is the money.) So, should we do Roy for Kazmir and 2-3 prospects? The prospects means getting the comp picks today, not much more. Is 3.5 years of Kazmir better than 1.5 of Roy? Well, will Kazmir recover and have an ERA+ of 125+? And is there any chance Roy would resign after 2010 as FA (assuming he has decided he won't sing an extension before, which it sounds like)?
From the Rays perspective, it seems odd to give up on Kaz, but I guess if you want to win this year, he is not helping you. (And of course there is the money.) So, should we do Roy for Kazmir and 2-3 prospects? The prospects means getting the comp picks today, not much more. Is 3.5 years of Kazmir better than 1.5 of Roy? Well, will Kazmir recover and have an ERA+ of 125+? And is there any chance Roy would resign after 2010 as FA (assuming he has decided he won't sing an extension before, which it sounds like)?
If the Rays were in play for Halladay, and the Jays got David Price
back, I'd be quite happy. Despite the control problems this year,
Price is ace material and his frame suggests that he should be less
injury prone than Kazmir too.
Heck yeah. Doc for Price and Brignac and Jennings or some such and I'd agree to pay Half of Doc's salary next year.
:D
Heck yeah. Doc for Price and Brignac and Jennings or some such and I'd agree to pay Half of Doc's salary next year.
:D
I think that this team needs to make a collective effort to not bring in injury prone pitchers. The upside to Kazmir is great but I'd rather not take that risk...memories of Mike Sirotka.
Dwayne Wise's catch to preserve that perfect game was fantastic ... single best play I've ever seen by a late-inning defensive replacement. I also love that Wise has toughed it out in the minors - despite never really hitting - as a defensive outfielder good enough to get some ML playing time here and there.
ESPN is reporting that the Cardinals are close to completing a trade for Matt Holliday. They will reportedly give up Brett Wallace, Clayton Mortensen and Shane Peterson.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4353256
If that's the case, I think we should be able to get quite a lot for Doc, seeing as how he has another year left on his contract.
Perhaps the Jays have lost leverage instead to push up a Phillies offer. I would say that a deal for Doc is dead unless the Jays are desperate to move him (which can't be ruled out because no one knows what is going on there).
I think the this puts the pressure on the Brewers to make a move for Halladay.
Nah. You think MIL wants to see headlines like the inevitable Sabathia II: Will they sign him this time?
Buster Olney
reporting on ESPN950 radio that the Phillies & Halladay trade will
happen and includes top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek
http://twitter.com/mlbhomerun
Has Doc been pulled from tonights start?
http://twitter.com/mlbhomerun
Has Doc been pulled from tonights start?
Phillies board mentioned Drabek, Taylor, Marson, and Donald, not sure the source
Seems like a good package if true ?
Seems like a good package if true ?
http://sr950.com/Audio/tabid/183/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4222/Default.aspx
Audio of Olney on ESPN 950.
Andy Martino is reporting JP has asked for Drabek, JA Happ, and Brown for Doc.
I got my DVR ready for today's game. I expect this to be the last time we see Doc pitch in a Jays uni.
I got my DVR ready for today's game. I expect this to be the last time we see Doc pitch in a Jays uni.
Here's the article in the Philidelphia Inquirer:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Daily_Halliday_update_The_horse_or_the_pony.html?assd
Talks are on between the Jays and Phillies with the Jays asking for Drabek, Happ and Brown. Happ doesn't look like he'd be more than a #4 starter at best in the AL East, though Drabek appears to be the real deal. What do you guys know about Brown? He's supposedly their best hitting prospect but his numbers in the minors don't scream superstar to me, and he wasn't exactly a high draft pick. If the deals goes down, I'd like to see Donald too. I know Mike Green isn't high on him but he might be able to fill in until Jackson or Pastornicky are ready, especially if the Jays are just rebuilding.
What do you guys know about Brown?
He's a 5 tool prospect. I know people have compared him to Darryl Strawberry which might be a stretch. He actually reminds me a little bit of Alex Rios with better control of the strike zone and better makeup. His arm is rated 70 out of the scout's 20-80 scale. I'm guessing his overall prospect ranking is probably around the 25 range.
He's a 5 tool prospect. I know people have compared him to Darryl Strawberry which might be a stretch. He actually reminds me a little bit of Alex Rios with better control of the strike zone and better makeup. His arm is rated 70 out of the scout's 20-80 scale. I'm guessing his overall prospect ranking is probably around the 25 range.
Am I the only one who's not that impressed with Happ? I'd much rather get Carrasco in the deal than Happ
Agree 100% WillRain, Happ will be a 5th starter in the AL, he went 6 giving up 5 er on 10 hits tonight. He's been lucky so far this year.
Joy in Mudville? I don't see much for several years if Doc gets traded now.
Any deal with Philly is going to be a quantity deal--Happ is a 4-5 starter at best in the AL East, Marson has no power and is a mediocre defender, Donald has knee problems and doesn't have a SS glove, Drabek has already had TJ, Michael Taylor might be a serviceable OF and Brown is too far away to guess... blecch.
I'd rather watch Doc 40 more times in a home uni than any combination of this lot.
Any deal with Philly is going to be a quantity deal--Happ is a 4-5 starter at best in the AL East, Marson has no power and is a mediocre defender, Donald has knee problems and doesn't have a SS glove, Drabek has already had TJ, Michael Taylor might be a serviceable OF and Brown is too far away to guess... blecch.
I'd rather watch Doc 40 more times in a home uni than any combination of this lot.
I would much rather have Drabek, Taylor and Brown and Donald. They should be pushing for that. 4 prospects should be about right considering that they are getting 2 playoff runs out of Doc and 2 1st round picks.
Let them keep Happ they are going to need him for this years playoff run with Myers out and Hamels potentially going down at any time. If you can get Taylor and Brown, that would free you up to try and trade Rios in the offseason.
Let them keep Happ they are going to need him for this years playoff run with Myers out and Hamels potentially going down at any time. If you can get Taylor and Brown, that would free you up to try and trade Rios in the offseason.
I think tonights game was a perfect example of why you cant trade Halladay. You cant trade a guy who on any given night can throw 9 innings and only give up 2 runs, can save a bullpen, is the most dependable starter in the majors.
I think tonights game was also a perfect example of why they have to trade Halladay. If you cant even win the games that he starts and pitches brilliantly, might as well use that trade chip to seriously rebuild.
I think tonights game was also a perfect example of why they have to trade Halladay. If you cant even win the games that he starts and pitches brilliantly, might as well use that trade chip to seriously rebuild.
No surprised Garza matched Doc tonight,, ever since the Rays have gotten Garza he's completely dominated the Jays. Tonight was actually a decent night for the Jays offense against Garza compared to recent history (2 ERs in 38 IPs last year and 3 ERs in 16 IPs this year).
I think expectations have to be tempered in terms of a return in a Doc trade. There are not a lot of bidders, largely because there aren't a lot of desperate teams on the fringe of the playoffs.
The Yanks are in first and the Sox are in the WC spot. LA's going to the playoffs, and so are the Phils. The Mets, not so much.
If the Yanks were last year's model at this time, they might sell the farm in a trade. Gillick's not going to give away more than he needs to, and he knows after this year's underwhelming haul for Burnett, the Jays aren't anxious to wait for draft picks.
Moreover, after Ricciardi's ill-advised interview outlining Doc's request to be dealt and Doc's giving a list of teams, the pressure is now on to resolve an unfolding (unnecessarily) unpleasant situation by making a trade.
So don't hold your breath expecting the Phils to come up with a fantasy trade. They're not going to bid against themselves.
The Yanks are in first and the Sox are in the WC spot. LA's going to the playoffs, and so are the Phils. The Mets, not so much.
If the Yanks were last year's model at this time, they might sell the farm in a trade. Gillick's not going to give away more than he needs to, and he knows after this year's underwhelming haul for Burnett, the Jays aren't anxious to wait for draft picks.
Moreover, after Ricciardi's ill-advised interview outlining Doc's request to be dealt and Doc's giving a list of teams, the pressure is now on to resolve an unfolding (unnecessarily) unpleasant situation by making a trade.
So don't hold your breath expecting the Phils to come up with a fantasy trade. They're not going to bid against themselves.
Am I the only one who's not that impressed with Happ? I'd much rather get Carrasco in the deal than Happ
Word.
If that was Roy Halladay's last start as a Blue Jay, he's got absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It was fitting, in a depressing way.
Tip of the hat to Matt Garza. Wag of the finger to the Jays' 2-3-4 hitters for going after high heater after high heater in the ninth inning. I mean, Garza and Hernandez are aware of how much you want to win it for the Doc. What did you expect?
Word.
If that was Roy Halladay's last start as a Blue Jay, he's got absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It was fitting, in a depressing way.
Tip of the hat to Matt Garza. Wag of the finger to the Jays' 2-3-4 hitters for going after high heater after high heater in the ninth inning. I mean, Garza and Hernandez are aware of how much you want to win it for the Doc. What did you expect?
IMO, Boston is capeable of paying what Doc is worth and so are theBrewers and Rays. The Angels and Dodgers MAYBE depending on what they will turn loose of.
I've tried hard to get excited about the Phillies prospects and I just cant do it.
Even less so the Yankees.
In fact, MLBTR says the Yanks are looking at Downs but if I'm gonna give up Scotty, it's gonna be for Brandon Wood or Reid Brignac or soeone like that. Unless it's Montero the Yanks don't have anyone I'm all that interested in in their minor league system.
I've tried hard to get excited about the Phillies prospects and I just cant do it.
Even less so the Yankees.
In fact, MLBTR says the Yanks are looking at Downs but if I'm gonna give up Scotty, it's gonna be for Brandon Wood or Reid Brignac or soeone like that. Unless it's Montero the Yanks don't have anyone I'm all that interested in in their minor league system.
There are not a lot of bidders, largely because there aren't a lot of desperate teams on the fringe of the playoffs.
There may not be a lot of bidders. But I think that's a pretty weak reason. The number of offdays in the modern playoff schedule favors the teams with the very best ace pitchers. If you trade for Roy Halladay, he could give you seven starts in the playoffs. That's what you're really trading for, regardless of whether you need Halladay to get you to the dance in the first place.
There may not be a lot of bidders. But I think that's a pretty weak reason. The number of offdays in the modern playoff schedule favors the teams with the very best ace pitchers. If you trade for Roy Halladay, he could give you seven starts in the playoffs. That's what you're really trading for, regardless of whether you need Halladay to get you to the dance in the first place.
After hearing Doc's interview tonight, in response to Ricciardi's comments of Thursday, I for one will be stunned if Ricciardi is not in the unemployment line by next week. Humiliating the organization with his silly lies about Adam Dunn last year was one thing, but the unnecessary conflict with the organization's franchise player, undermining the team's negotiating position by publicly stating that Doc had said he'd leave after 2010, can't help but reinforce to Beeston the considerable degree by which the GM job exceeds JP Ricciardi's capabilities.
... can't help but reinforce to Beeston the considerable degree by which the GM job exceeds JP Ricciardi's capabilities.
If the Jays are talking about trading and/or re-signing Halladay, do you really think Ricciardi's completely on his own? Godfrey was all over the place whenever the Jays announced a high-profile move, so I'd be surprised if Ricciardi & Beeston aren't having daily status meetings of some sort.
Not to mention that if Beeston would be insane to let Ricciardi trade Halladay if he didn't think he was up to the job. If you're going to fire the guy because he's not good enough, it's ridiculous to let him handle moving one of the most valuable players the franchise has ever had.
If the Jays are talking about trading and/or re-signing Halladay, do you really think Ricciardi's completely on his own? Godfrey was all over the place whenever the Jays announced a high-profile move, so I'd be surprised if Ricciardi & Beeston aren't having daily status meetings of some sort.
Not to mention that if Beeston would be insane to let Ricciardi trade Halladay if he didn't think he was up to the job. If you're going to fire the guy because he's not good enough, it's ridiculous to let him handle moving one of the most valuable players the franchise has ever had.
I’m not really sure what happened behind the scenes between
Doc and JP. In tonight’s press conference, Doc had nothing but good things to
say about the future of the Jays and JP. There’s an article over at the Globe
and Mail website that says Doc was irked when he found out JP told the media
Roy was going to test the free agent market after the 2010 season. Either way,
I have no idea why JP decided to share that nugget. There’s really no benefit in
revealing that information.
While watching the game and also during his press conference, the same thought entered my head. Why in the world would you trade a player like Roy Halladay? We have been told by the GM that it’s all about winning going forward, so I have a hard time picturing how getting rid of one of the best players in baseball actually improves the team. We were also told 2010 was suppose to be the year the Jays make a serious run at the playoffs. I don’t know how the Jays do that without Halladay.
It’s a shame only 24,000 and change showed up. Even perhaps the last home game of one of the best players in franchise history can’t even attract a large crowd. The Jays have been irrelevant since they last won the World Series and the sinking attendance reflects this.
is this - interview/press conference/whatever it was - onlione anywhere?
is this - interview/press conference/whatever it was - onlione anywhere?
Check out Wilner's radio show from last night.
Check out Wilner's radio show from last night.
I have a friend who's a player agent in another major sports league and we were talking about J.P.'s comments about Doc. He said that there's no way J.P. should be saying anything at this point, which Beeston finally reinforced it seems.
I hope JP is not settling for those 3 and insists on Taylor being included in well. Drabek, Taylor, Marson, Donald, Brown. Otherwise don't do it, another team will come along.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4355464
According to Jayson Stark, the Phils aren't willing to meet the Jays asking price of Happ, Brown, and Drabek. The Phils prefer to include Carrasco and remove Drabek or Happ.
Hopefully the Jays and Phils hold firm and a deal doesn't happen.
According to Jayson Stark, the Phils aren't willing to meet the Jays asking price of Happ, Brown, and Drabek. The Phils prefer to include Carrasco and remove Drabek or Happ.
Hopefully the Jays and Phils hold firm and a deal doesn't happen.
The Phils are TURNING DOWN a Jays proposal of Drabek, Brown, and Happ?! Sheesh, please don't trade Doc JP. It simply will not be worth it. The Jays are far better off keeping him until the next deadline, judging by what the As picked up yesterday for a far lesser impending FA. The Phillies aren't coming anywhere close to paying enough for picking him up for an extra year.
Agreed!
If THAT was the best deal we could make, there's no way I'd trade him. Hell, that's only one player more than the two pics, IMO.
If the Phillies had closed that I'd be hunting for my torch and pitchfork right now.
If THAT was the best deal we could make, there's no way I'd trade him. Hell, that's only one player more than the two pics, IMO.
If the Phillies had closed that I'd be hunting for my torch and pitchfork right now.
Ryan, I don't disagree with much that you've said but it's entirely unresponsive to the post you quote.
Whether Beeston is allowing Ricciardi to carry out negotiations on his own or not is irrelevant to Ricciardi telling reporters that Halladay had told the team he won't re-sign, thus reducing their bargaining position and publicly undermining Doc. According to the most recent reports, Ricciardi can't recall when Doc said this, reminiscent of his 'deletion' of the purported Adam Dunn imposter's phone number.
Both Beeston and Halladay objected to Ricciardi's comments, for obvious if different reasons.
According to Jayson Stark, the Phils aren't willing to meet the Jays
asking price of Happ, Brown, and Drabek. The Phils prefer to include
Carrasco and remove Drabek or Happ.
I prefer Carrasco to Happ, but I'd STILL be quite outraged if we only got Drabek, Carrasco, and Brown.
I'm really worried we're going to end up making a dumb deal in spite of all the indications that nothing will happen.
I prefer Carrasco to Happ, but I'd STILL be quite outraged if we only got Drabek, Carrasco, and Brown.
I'm really worried we're going to end up making a dumb deal in spite of all the indications that nothing will happen.
I think the Jays would actually be better off if they swapped out Happ with Carasco, or even Marson. I know I'm going to be a minority here, but if I were Ricciardi I'd pull the trigger on a Drabek, Taylor/Brown, Marson, Donald deal. If Ricciardi still had faith in Arencibia (I don't), then perhaps Drabek, Carrasco, Taylor/Brown, and Donald.
The reason I like Donald and Marson is because they fill organizational needs. I understand that Brown could be Rios+, but the Jays are stacked in the outfield (Wells, Rios, Lind, Snider, and further down Sierra), and moving Snider and Lind to 1B/DH creates a log jam for 1B/DH types like Dopirak and Cooper.
I admit to a bit of worry about JPA (though just a bit) but I don't think Marson is the answer to that. I think donald is "just a guy" too, but it would give us SOME bridge at SS and I'd be very disappointed if he didn't get sqeezed into any Phillies deal.
But even if we got Drabek, Carrasco, Brown/Taylor and Donald I'd be underwhelmed.
Anything less than that and I'm on the ledge.
But even if we got Drabek, Carrasco, Brown/Taylor and Donald I'd be underwhelmed.
Anything less than that and I'm on the ledge.
M's have DFA'd Wladimir Balentien- if we don't have to keep him in the majors I'd see if we could deal some fringy something they could use for him. Brian Wolfe maybe.
He looked real promising in the minors. Heck, give them Purcey for him. It's not like we seem to have any use for DP anymore.
Also makes me wonder if they wouldn't like to overpay for Rios ;)
He looked real promising in the minors. Heck, give them Purcey for him. It's not like we seem to have any use for DP anymore.
Also makes me wonder if they wouldn't like to overpay for Rios ;)
MLBTR quotes Rosey as saying the Angels have stepped up and the Jays ask for one player on the major league roster and another who would impact in 201 - the latter pretty much as to be Wood...one would assume the former is either Weaver or Santana (not like there's any prayer they'd include Weaver)
I'd like to imagine we could get Napoli (and include Barajas back to them) but that's foolishness. the Angels are looking for relief too, I could dream about Napolie Weaver and Wood for Doc, Downs and Barajas.
Video game trade I know.
the Rangers are also said to still be players in that article. And frankly, unless Doc has ruled out Texas, I wouldn't close any deal with the Phillies without giving the Rangers a chance to beat it. I like their top shelf guys WAY more than what the Phillies can offer.
Another report says Phillies won't deal Drabek AND Happ. fine, keep Happ and deal Drabek Brown AND Taylor (and donald) and you can have Happ.
Beats me why, with all the pitching we have, we are not trying to get more hitters anyway. An ace level guy sure, but multiple pitchers - why?
I'd like to imagine we could get Napoli (and include Barajas back to them) but that's foolishness. the Angels are looking for relief too, I could dream about Napolie Weaver and Wood for Doc, Downs and Barajas.
Video game trade I know.
the Rangers are also said to still be players in that article. And frankly, unless Doc has ruled out Texas, I wouldn't close any deal with the Phillies without giving the Rangers a chance to beat it. I like their top shelf guys WAY more than what the Phillies can offer.
Another report says Phillies won't deal Drabek AND Happ. fine, keep Happ and deal Drabek Brown AND Taylor (and donald) and you can have Happ.
Beats me why, with all the pitching we have, we are not trying to get more hitters anyway. An ace level guy sure, but multiple pitchers - why?
The SP Times are reporting that Brignac was just pulled from the game in AAA but is NOT injured.
Perhaps a trade has been made? I know the speculation has been directed more towards Lee than Halladay, but would the Rays EVER be a good fit for the Jays, with Price (ignore todays game, the kid's going to be awesome) and Brignac coming back.
We'll see. The next couple of days will be very interesting.
Carrasco was the Phils top prospect two years running, I believe, but seemingly his stock has fallen. Does anyone know what happened? Is it just a matter of Drabek passing him and Carrasco underwhelming in AAA, or is there something else going on? From what I read about him in the past, he has teriffic stuff.
Nevermind, now they're reporting the Brignac was pulled for not running hard to 1B. The grapes were sour anyways, I'd rather have Beckham, especially if the Jays are rebuilding for 2012-ish.
Stop asking for Happ, and get us Knapp, we don't need more serviceable mid-range starters. Don't let the Phillies make up a phanton injury before the trade deadline so that you'll cross him off your list.
"Don't let the Phillies make up a phanton injury before the trade deadline so that you'll cross him off your list."
That would be quite clever on their part.
That would be quite clever on their part.
I wouldn't touch Kazmir with a 10 foot pole at this point. With the injury history starting to build up and the lost velocity this year, he's a major red flag.
Any deal involving Doc MUST include a top flight pitching prospect, and a top flight catcher or short stop. That is what the package should be built around. Then you get the other team to throw in another legitimate pitching prospect and a legitimate hitting prospect (Not castaways, but guys who are question marks with upside - nobody will give you 4 "A" prospects). Otherwise, you don't do it. If you can't plug your organizations major holes with the best pitcher in the world, you don't make the trade. It's that simple.
Any deal involving Doc MUST include a top flight pitching prospect, and a top flight catcher or short stop. That is what the package should be built around. Then you get the other team to throw in another legitimate pitching prospect and a legitimate hitting prospect (Not castaways, but guys who are question marks with upside - nobody will give you 4 "A" prospects). Otherwise, you don't do it. If you can't plug your organizations major holes with the best pitcher in the world, you don't make the trade. It's that simple.
Gordon Edes:
Angels offered "Weaver plus the Blue Jays picks of Infield or outfield prospects" and the Jays declined.
if I can get Weaver and Wood in the same deal I already like it better than what the Phillies stupidly declined.
Angels offered "Weaver plus the Blue Jays picks of Infield or outfield prospects" and the Jays declined.
if I can get Weaver and Wood in the same deal I already like it better than what the Phillies stupidly declined.
Agreed Will...but it sounds like JP can get more. Maybe Aybar + Scoot added? It solves our biggest problem going forward if Aybar can keep building on what he's doing and Wood can emerge...and if Butterfield can help their defense as well...
My fantasy deal (assumiing a sane person can fatasize about a deal where you lose Doc):
Weaver + Napoli + Wood for Doc, Downs, Barajas and Mills or some other prospect they would want.
Weaver + Napoli + Wood for Doc, Downs, Barajas and Mills or some other prospect they would want.
Blair says Doc prefers ST in Florida...if he sticks to that it would really shorten the list. (Phillies, Rays, Red Sox) so i hope that's not something he's committed to.
if I can get Weaver and Wood in the same deal I already like it better than what the Phillies stupidly declined.
I'd be trying to expand it into a 5 for 2 of Weaver, Wood, Walden (Oh My!), Bourjos and Chaffee for Halladay & Downs / Frasor / other reliever of their choosing. That might be close enough to bridge the gap between what the Angels will part with and what the Jays want.
The advantage to dealing with Philadelphia is that the Jays would control Drabek, Happ, Brown + co. for 6+ years, which would give Toronto a strong core of cheap, controllable players in Lind, Hill, Snider, Brown, Marcum, Romero, Cecil, Drabek and Happ. In a few years that could be a formidable group.
I like Weaver and Napoli a lot but they will become expensive a lot more quickly. Of course, if the Jays managed to acquire both players they might actually compete in 2010--assuming, of course, that they don't trade away Rolen, Scutaro, Frasor and Downs. But the Angels would never trade both of them for Doc. I suspect that's the reason why the Phillies are frontrunners (if you believe the media hype).
I like Weaver and Napoli a lot but they will become expensive a lot more quickly. Of course, if the Jays managed to acquire both players they might actually compete in 2010--assuming, of course, that they don't trade away Rolen, Scutaro, Frasor and Downs. But the Angels would never trade both of them for Doc. I suspect that's the reason why the Phillies are frontrunners (if you believe the media hype).
The advantage to dealing with Philadelphia is that the Jays would control Drabek, Happ, Brown + co. for 6+ years
What did I hear somebody in the media saying about that alleged Mets 4 for 1 the other day..."24 years for 1 and a half of Halladay." Yah, it's not 24 years - and if miraculously it is, it sure won't be 24 elite years.
Supposedly their are some "surprise" teams...if the Giants will also take Rios (they did have interest a few years back), imagine a Halladay/Lincecum/Cain trio - the Giants may have the most limp offense in baseball...but seriously...that is disgusting.
Bumgarner/Alderson/Villalona/lower level pieces for Doc and Rios (without the Jays eating significant money, of course)...if Doc has to go, sign me up for that.
According to Rosenthal the Jays are discussing a trade of Scott Rolen to Cincinnati.
According to Rosenthal the Jays are discussing a trade of Scott Rolen to Cincinnati.
Not sure what / who it would take, but i'd try to get Frazier (as Rolen's replacement) and Bailey back. I know it's probably asking way too much, but given the current times one needs happy dreams to keep sane
"What did I hear somebody in the media saying about that alleged Mets 4 for 1 the other day"
Yes, clearly you'd better hold the prospects you're getting in return in high esteem. Otherwise the fact that you're getting cost-controlled years isn't worth a whole lot.
With a potential Halladay trade, you'd better be getting some serious quality in return. JP has supposedly told the Yankees that it would take Hughes, Montero and Jackson. That seems like a very strong trade for Toronto, although the Jays would seem to be charging New York an "AL East premium" for Doc. But it's probably the best potential package I've heard of for Halladay. I would be shocked if Cashman made that deal, though. I guess there's always the chance that Steinbrenner says, "get me Halladay...I don't care what it takes!"
Yes, clearly you'd better hold the prospects you're getting in return in high esteem. Otherwise the fact that you're getting cost-controlled years isn't worth a whole lot.
With a potential Halladay trade, you'd better be getting some serious quality in return. JP has supposedly told the Yankees that it would take Hughes, Montero and Jackson. That seems like a very strong trade for Toronto, although the Jays would seem to be charging New York an "AL East premium" for Doc. But it's probably the best potential package I've heard of for Halladay. I would be shocked if Cashman made that deal, though. I guess there's always the chance that Steinbrenner says, "get me Halladay...I don't care what it takes!"
Not sure why there is so much negativity about Happ. His minor league numbers are excellent, with BB/K rates of about 3 to 1, far fewer hits than inning pitched, very good ERA's, and more K's than IP. He did have one mediocre year in AAA at the age of only 24, when he walked too many. His ML numbers have been outstanding despite pitching in a strong htters' park. Record of 8-1, ERA of a little over 3.00, hits well under IP, a decent BB/K rate, especially this year, 71 K's in 100 IP this year. He's only 26. He looks like an excellent young pitcher to me, and I would love to get him.
I think it's more a concern about his upside. His margin of error is small due to meh stuff, so his upside is a #3-4 starter. A useful piece (especially in his pre-arb years) for sure, but not someone who I would picture as a headline piece in a Halladay trade. This is more of an issue since Drabek is probably a year away, and is being seen more as a #2-3 guy.
for one, Happ has a babip of 260 which is way below his norms.
he also has a high lob %
he's also 26 so he's not likely to get better, and more likely to be worse.
he also has a high lob %
he's also 26 so he's not likely to get better, and more likely to be worse.