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Someone should have told these guys 100 years ago that they spell "Socks" wrong. Amiright? Ah ah? Hey where's everyone going....



I had an in-depth preview for this series ready to go that I accidentally erased by closing the wrong window on my computer (essentially the blogger's version of "the dog ate my homework"). It actually does happen! Anyhow, here's a much (much) more abbreviated version of that, because it's almost 2am while I do this and trying to rewrite sentences you've already written before is a circle of hell even Dante didn't care to visit. So here's the gist:

-- The Red Sox offense is absurdly good. They average almost twice as many runs per game (5.96) as the Atlanta Braves (3.11). That's crazy.

-- Dustin Pedroia is healthy and as consistently irritating as ever.

-- Travis Shaw? Seriously?

-- David Ortiz, man. David Ortiz.

Hmmm, I could've saved two hours of my life and hundreds of innocent words if I'd just done that in the first place. Hmmmmm... *shrugs*

Pitching Matchups

FRI 7:07 -- Kelly (2-0, 5.28) v. Sanchez (4-1, 3.20)
SAT 1:07 -- Porcello (7-2, 3.47) v. Stroman (5-1, 3.89) 
SUN 1:07 -- Price (7-1, 5.34) v. Dickey (2-6, 4.60)

Injury Report

Brock Holt is on the 7 day concussion DL but is eligible to return this weekend. Pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez has a knee issue and could come back in June, reliever Carson Smith is done for the year after Tommy John surgery and Pablo Sandoval is on the 60 day DL with insert your own fat joke here. For the Blue Jays there are unsubstantiated rumblings (the best kind of rumblings!) that Aaron Loup may be ready to join the big league bullpen sometime in this series.

Showcase Showdown

If you're planning to go to the park Sunday and see David Price, might I again suggest what I proposed during Magpie's Report Card podcast. When Price is announced, give the man a standing ovation. Give him one because of the great citizen he was, of his willing eagerness to help the team in any way, and for how well he pitched to get this team into the postseason for the first time in a generation. Give him the respect he earned and deserves. After that, boo the heck out of him for the next seven years cause he plays for the damn Red Sox.

Be nice to win a few.  

May 27-29: The Big Red Sox Machine Comes To Town | 203 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Jevant - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#323725) #
Oddly confident about a good result this series.  Red Sox are due to cool a bit, Jays have good pitching matchups for the first 2 games, and Dickey is likely looking at a nice hot Sunday afternoon to pitch, and the Jays should be "up" for hitting Price.  Here's hoping the Jays bats can warm up a little bit.  Thankfully they had a 5-2 road trip without all cylinders firing yet, although it's nice to see Martin and Tulo starting to raise their game, and Travis back.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#323726) #
I wondered about the Red Sox' spectacular team BABIP.  It breaks down as follows: BABIP on ground balls .288 (league average .242), BABIP on line drives .675 (league average .639); BABIP on fly balls .190 (league average .086).  You might think that the fly ball number is mostly due to the Green Monster.  That is probably not the case.  The Sox have a damn fine BABIP of .331 on the road.  The Sox have hit a just slightly below average number of home runs, but more than double the rate of doubles and triples.  I don't think that it is all luck.  In Bogaerts, Betts and Bradley, they have 3 young players with not much uppercut.  Travis Shaw is the same now.  Pedroia has always been like that.  I'll bet that there has a conscientious effort from management to promote this type of approach (using biomechanics to assist hitting coaches). 

Stroman and Sanchez match up well.  Devon Travis is liable to see a fair bit of work. 

Dave Till - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#323727) #
Hands up, those of you who predicted that David Price would have a higher ERA than R.A. Dickey on May 27th. Baseball is a funny game.

I won't be at the park on Sunday, but I like the idea of giving him an ovation when he first appears. Then, I hope he gets clobbered, now and forever, given that he is now one of Them.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#323729) #
More on Ortiz.  There are 15 players in major league history with 2000 PAs and an OPS+ of 110 or more from age 37-40.  The top 5 by OPS+ are Brian Downing (128), Ty Cobb (140), Willie Mays (145), Edgar Martinez (150) and David Ortiz (151).  It seems pretty clear that the DH rule has played an important part in sustaining batting prowess. 
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#323730) #
By the way, #6 was Honus Wagner (127).  Three of these players are likely among the top 10 players in the history of the game, and the other three spent many years as a DH. 
Chuck - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#323731) #
David Price may be sporting an unattractive ERA, but his 7-1 record more closely aligns with his 2.81 FIP. It's as if the baseball gods have opted to smite him on the one hand, but then provide him the requisite run support to overcome that smiting.

Their ways are unknowable to we mortals.

uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#323732) #
a finally healthy lineup, and 6gms against the division leaders in a week just as we cross over the 1/3 mark of the season... this would be the time to make a move.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#323733) #
no matter what the analysis, though, the red sox babip is still hilarious.

Starters

BOS --- TOR

.400 --- .394
.390 --- .385
.383 --- .276
.369 --- .276
.347 --- .256
.336 --- .250
.296 --- .240
.289 --- .232
.284 --- .182

bench

.520 --- .417
.378 --- .357
.261 --- .185
.256 --- .100
John Northey - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#323734) #
OK - is it just me or is there something seriously weird about a 40 year old DH having a 194 OPS+? David Price has an 82 ERA+ but 7 wins in 10 games, meanwhile Steven Wright is 4-4 in 9 starts with a 175 ERA+ on the exact same team. Guess life just isn't fair sometimes. Of course by FIP Price is 2.81 vs Wright 3.13 so maybe it is fair.

Right now only Drew Storen is on the Jays roster with a worse ERA+ than David Price. Funny. Biagini ERA is at 0.54 now vs Price's 5.34 or right around one tenth of Price's ERA. I find that really funny.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#323735) #
Price's ball-in-play data has been much, much worse than his career norms.  A 26% line drive rate (career 20%), a 4% pop-up rate (career 10%) and a 36% hard-hit ball rate (career 27%) have unsurprisingly led to a .337 BABIP (career .288).  The baseball gods are happy to take responsibility for Baltimore chops, dying quails, bloopers, ground balls hitting bags and so on, but they demand of pitchers to do their best.  Price's opposition line does bear a resemblance to the Red Sox offensive line- perhaps he has pitched on days which have been favourable to hitters.

Price has been knocked around by the AL East- twice by the Yankees, once by Tampa and once by Baltimore.  He did have a good outing against Toronto in Boston. His non-divisional outings have all been good. It's a tough division...

uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#323736) #
yes, it is very weird, John.

for most any other player, there might be more whispers making the rounds.
hypobole - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#323737) #
Want a good babip? Don't try to pull everything.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#323738) #
One note on the add on run in the 9th last night - I guess with the lead, and with chapman on the mound, gibby didn't feel like making the sacrifice but usually with a guy like smoak on 2nd gibby would pinch run for him.

and really, smoak should have been a dead duck on that play, but thankfully beltran made a bad throw AND mccann fielded it very strangely.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#323739) #
well, there's good babip and then there's insanely hilarious babip.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#323740) #
cool article on a very specific uniqueness of Saunders' lefty v lefty numbers: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/one-tiny-fact-about-one-part-of-michael-saunders-comeback/
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#323741) #
2014-2016 Stats

Starting Pitching (WAR = average of fwar & ra9war prorated to 32 starts)

Stroman (25): 34gs, 82era-, 4.6war --- Price (30): 76gs, 80era-, 5.4war
Sanchez (23): 20gs, 83era-, 3.1war --- Wright (31): 19gs, 72era-, 3.3war
Happ (33): 67gs, 96era-, 2.8war ------- Porcello (27): 68gs, 99era-, 2.5war
Estrada (32): 55gs, 94era-, 2.4war ----- Buchholz (31): 56gs, 117era-, 1.7war
Dickey (41): 77gs, 98era-, 2.2war ------ Kelly (28): 46gs, 113era-, 1.2war
(Hutch (25): 61gs, 123era-, 1.3war ---- Rodriguez (23): 21gs, 91era-, 3.0war)

Relief Pitching (WAR = average of fwar & ra9war prorated to 65ip)

Osuna (21): 90.2ip, 56era-, 1.8war ---- Kimbrel (28): 140.0ip, 57era-, 2.1war
Cecil (29): 118.0ip, 70era-, 1.4war ----- Uehara (41): 122.2ip, 62era-, 1.7war
Storen (28): 126.1ip, 74era-, 1.1war -- Tazawa (30): 140.1ip, 78era-, 1.1war
Loup (28): 111.0ip, 92era-, 0.4war ----- Ross (28): 96.0ip, 106era-, 0.1war
Floyd (33): 35.0ip, 69era-, 0.9war ------ Layne (31): 80.1ip, 72era-, 0.7war
Biagini (26): 16.2ip, 13era-, 1.6war ---- Hembree (28): 55.0ip, 75era-, 0.4war
Chavez (32): 41.2ip, 73era-, -0.2war -- Barnes (26): 64.0ip, 87era-, 0.0war
(Morales (30): 86.2ip, 88era-, 0.2war -- Smith (26): 81.0ip, 52era-, 2.0war)


Hitters (WAR = average of fwar & bwar prorated to 650pa)

3B Donaldson (30): 1617pa, 140wrc+, 7.1war - RF Betts (23): 1088pa, 120wrc+, 5.6war
RF Bautista (35): 1553pa, 152wrc+, 5.0war ---- 2B Pedroia (32): 1237pa, 109wrc+, 4.6war
SS Tulowitzki (31): 1094pa, 122wrc+, 5.0war -- SS Bogaerts (23): 1460pa, 104wrc+, 3.3war
DH Enícon (33): 1377pa, 143wrc+, 4.0war ----- DH Ortiz (40): 1404pa, 144wrc+, 3.6war
2B Travis (25): 246pa, 132wrc+, 6.3war --------- 3B Shaw (26): 440pa, 126wrc+, 4.7war
CF Pillar (27): 945pa, 88wrc+, 4.8war ----------- CF Bradley (26): 862pa, 95wrc+, 3.7war
LF Saunders (29): 464pa, 134wrc+, 4.8war ---- LF Holt (28): 1131pa, 96wrc+, 2.6war
C Martin (33): 1112pa, 114wrc+, 4.6war --------- C Vazquez (25): 296pa, 65wrc+, 2.4war
1B Smoak (29): 736pa, 99wrc+, 0.8war -------- 1B Ramirez (32): 1135pa, 113wrc+,1.4war

UT Paredes (27): 464pa, 100wrc+, 0.4war --- UT Swihart (24): 351pa, 92wrc+, 2.0war
OF Carrera (29): 317pa, 94wrc+, 0.2war ------ OF Young (32): 787pa, 103wrc+, 1.5war
IF Barney (30): 369pa, 88wrc+, 3.8war -------- IF Rutledge (27): 472pa, 91wrc+, -0.1war
C Thole (29): 248pa, 57wrc+, -1.7war ---------- C Hanigan (35): 527pa, 82wrc+, 2.0war

(UT Colabello (32): 612pa, 112wrc+, -0.7war - UT Panda (29): 1150pa, 95wrc+, 0.9war)
(IF Goins (28): 747pa, 58wrc+, 0.9war --------- OF Castillo (28): 333pa, 85wrc+, 3.1war)
(OF Pompey (23): 146pa, 88wrc+, 2.5war ---- IF Hernandez (23): 8pa, 165wrc+, 8.1war)
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#323742) #
I like the idea of giving him an ovation when he first appears

I remember Carlos Villenueva's comments a few years back when a much more important ex-Blue Jay (at least to most) received a standing ovation. It didn't seem to impress the home players. In fact it seemed to annoy them.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#323743) #
Really?  I remember when Jimmy Key left after 1992 and had a chance to tip his cap to the fans for the last time, and get the ovation he deserved. If a player does not get that chance, surely the fans can show their appreciation without offending anyone.  Price was a part of a magical run.  Surely Blue Jay players (i.e. his teammates from last year mostly) won't begrudge him recognition from fans for what he did. 
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#323744) #
Bautista's suspension upheld. out tonight. what a joke.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#323745) #
Tulo back, hitting 5th.


Carrera filling in for Jose in the leadoff spot.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#323746) #
Jays sticking with the 6 man bullpen still, looks like.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#323747) #
Osuna presumably sits today.  I wonder who fills the 8th and 9th inning high leverage roles, if needed.  Biagini and Floyd?
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#323748) #
It looks like Hanley Ramirez is DHing for the Sox instead of Ortiz. Ortiz has hit Sanchez very well in 11 PAs, so I'd call this dodging a bullet.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#323749) #
I remember Jimmy Key walking off the field too. It looked like he figured out in motion the significance of that moment, or else I remember the commentators saying that. He was a Blue Jay. That is very different to me than cheering Red Sox players who are playing against the home team that night. Price got lots of applause from Toronto fans during his short tenure with Toronto.He doesn't need it appearing for the Red Sox against Toronto.

I remember the huge ovation for Mariano's introduction in 2005 when the Yankees opened in Fenway. He smiled and tipped his cap going along with the fun because it was entirely in jest for his blown saves in games 4 and 5 of the ALCS in 2004. I never saw Johnny Damon, or Jacoby Ellsbury, or Rogers Clemens get an ovation in Fenway for old times sake when they appeared on a visiting team.

uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#323750) #
I'll make an early bullpen call - if we need Osuna tonight, I hope we use him. 3 days in a row should be fine, especially off of short outings.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#323751) #
Rogers Clemens

It's Roger to you, buddy!  As Hornsby put it, that's just the way it is.

I guess there is the heat of the rivalry.  It also might be that Red Sox fans do have a special thing about players who have moved on to the Yankees.  Garciaparra did get a standing O from the fans when he came back as a member of the A's- you can find the video on youtube.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#323753) #
Yes, I think there is some heat of rivalry to it. I think this weekend the team needs some juice from the crowd.
John Northey - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#323754) #
I remember watching Clemens first game in Fenway as a Jay on TV. Massive booing to start but by the 8th inning massive cheering as he left the field with 18 K's under his belt and he stared at the GM who said he was too old to get another big contract. That was fun. A shame our GM at the time was not competent enough to build a team around that.
Chuck - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#323755) #
Biagini and Floyd?

I saw Biagini and Floyd. I read Bonnie and Clyde.

Alex Obal - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#323756) #
Carlos Villenueva's comments a few years back when a much more important ex-Blue Jay (at least to most) received a standing ovation

That game took place a year and a half after Halladay was traded. Villanueva was the Jays' starter in that game. (And he left with a lead in the seventh inning before Farrell summoned Luis Perez to face Chase Utley, so he might have been a bit frustrated right after the game.) And that was one hell of a standing ovation, lasting the entire middle of the first inning and beyond, after Halladay had already received one the night before. And Villanueva had never played on Halladay's team. There's no way he could've understood what Doc meant to the Toronto fans, since it's impossible for mortal humans to conceive of a franchise wasting greatness so spectacularly unless they'd actually seen it happen. Even though I disagree that giving the visitors their props is mutually exclusive with rooting for 5-spots every inning, I admired Villanueva's honesty. That cemented him as my favorite player.

... anyway, Price is more strongly connected to the current Blue Jays team and hopefully it'll be a non-issue when this happens again. Clearly, if he into the Hall of Fame, assuming it still exists when he's eligible, he should wear a Toronto hat.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#323757) #
Just to be clear, Floyd's nickname is apparently Count  and not Pretty Boy. 
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#323758) #
Today is the birthday of both Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell.  They were both born on May 27, 1968 and were the AL and NL MVPs for 1994.  I am pretty sure that hasn't happened before or since. 
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#323760) #
My favourite reminiscences about games in which Clemens pitched at Fenway probably aren't his. One was a gem that Jim Abbot threw his first year with the Angels. The other has to be the 'where is Roger! In the shower!" 1999 playoff game that ended up 13-1.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#323761) #
One of the SOSH folk did a review of the Bue Jays at the quarter-pole, comparing it to his pre-season expectations. It's pretty much spot on and well-written.
jerjapan - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#323762) #
I remember watching Clemens first game in Fenway as a Jay on TV. Massive booing to start but by the 8th inning massive cheering as he left the field with 18 K's under his belt and he stared at the GM who said he was too old to get another big contract. That was fun. A shame our GM at the time was not competent enough to build a team around that.

Gord Ash was a terrible GM, but he DID sign Clemens in the first place - easily his best move as GM. 
Spifficus - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#323763) #
So, just to clarify, Ash's best move as a GM was to do nothing (since it was Beeston that hammered out the Clemens agreement, handshake deal and all). I can't argue with that.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#323764) #
Martin & travis going the other way like that consistently would be a huge boost to the lineup.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#323765) #
The semi-intentional walk to Saunders to get to Tulowitzki. And Tulowitzki obliges with an embarrassing at bat.
eudaimon - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#323766) #
The offense is looking reassuringly like the 2015 version today. Travis is also looking good.
Petey Baseball - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#323767) #
It really only becomes apparent when a hard thrower is on the mound, but Troy Tulowitzki seems to have lost some bat speed from his Colorado heyday.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#323768) #
we feel a helluva lot more dangerous with the two previously black holes at C and 2B starting to contribute.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#323769) #
it's kinda crazy how good Sanchez' numbers are given that he still fights his command on a regular basis.
JohnL - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#323770) #
I figure Ash's best moves were 1) Drafting Halladay and 2) Re-building him in 2001. (And I guess, 3) getting fired).
SK in NJ - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#323771) #
Sanchez is legit. He's getting K's, improving his command, and maintaining a very high GB rate. Whatever he did in the off-season with Stroman, it worked beautifully. Now, keep the arm healthy.

Also nice to see Smoak contributing. His K% is starting to dwindle down, while his walks remain high and his power starting to come around. His BABIP is going to go down, but he has the skill set to remain productive despite that (BB + power combo). That would be a huge boost.
Petey Baseball - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#323772) #
This Red Sox team is legit. A three run lead feels like nothing.
Petey Baseball - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#323773) #
Add on runs. Need. Add. On. Runs.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#323774) #
"A three run lead feels like nothing"

not sure that has anything to do with the opponent this year.
greenfrog - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#323775) #
Never easy with the 2016 Jays. This lead does not feel remotely secure.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#323776) #
Boston has scored 4 runs.
greenfrog - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#323777) #
With plays like that, this team doesn't actually deserve to win.
greenfrog - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#323778) #
The Jays are so losing this one.
SK in NJ - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#323779) #
Biagini has been screwed by his defense.
greenfrog - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#323780) #
Biagini pitched very well.
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#323781) #
Gentlemen.  This is Batter's Box, not SOSH.  We do things differently here.

Yes, Pillar and Saunders failed to communicate well and it cost the club a run.  Now, let's go out and make it a footnote to the game story.

uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#323782) #
we are so winning this game.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#323783) #
the old decrepit red sox trotting out old 40yr olds against our prime sluggers.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#323784) #
3rd day in a row. Let's see if our young homegrown ace closer has the stamina.
uglyone - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#323785) #
Our young studs (Sanchez, Biagini, Osuna) >>> red sox kids
BlueJayWay - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#323786) #
What a fun win.
eudaimon - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#323787) #
3-0 with Devon Travis in the lineup
Mike Green - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#323788) #
Jays defeat BoSox behind Donaldson's 5 RBIs
....
Pillar and Saunders both back off on fly ball for meaningless double in 8th
John Northey - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#323789) #
Phew. Won the Bautista sit out game in part thanks to the guy who played for him getting a bunt single before Donaldson HR in the 8th and scoring twice today.
SK in NJ - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#323790) #
Much needed win.
greenfrog - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#323791) #
Schoolmarm nation?

Great win by the Jays. They do need to improve their defensive play, though.
scottt - Friday, May 27 2016 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#323792) #
3 walks by Saunders and 4 strikeouts by Tulo.

7 runs scored, but another 13 strikeouts.

Kelly got 8 of those on less than 5 innings.
Thank goodness Goins wasn't in this one.

mathesond - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:06 AM EDT (#323793) #
All in all, I thought it was pretty considerate of the Red Sox to sit Ortiz while Bautista was serving his suspension.
Magpie - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 08:14 AM EDT (#323794) #
I'd just like to point out to the team that they now have our Undivided Attention. (A little later in the year than usual, perhaps.)

Anyway. No more screwing around. We will notice.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#323795) #
All in all, I thought it was pretty considerate of the Red Sox to sit Ortiz while Bautista was serving his suspension.

And Sanchez pitching. I read that Ortiz pulled up injured to third base the previous game. Hopefully he will take care of himself and get some more rest.
Chuck - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#323796) #
I'd just like to point out to the team that they now have our Undivided Attention.

I'm told that not all winter sports leagues have completed their schedules, and that there are still some Canadian lads holding the interest of the viewing public.

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#323797) #
3 walks by Saunders and 4 strikeouts by Tulo.

If Gibbons is going to have Tulo as his 5 hitter, Farrell is obviously more than happy to play along and get Tulo as many at bats as he can in key situations. A strikeout in every at bat. Hopefully Gibbons will address this and move Tulo down the batting order.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#323798) #
tulo is literally our hottest hitter.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#323799) #
"All in all, I thought it was pretty considerate of the Red Sox to sit Ortiz while Bautista was serving his suspension."

unfortunate fact of life for old decrepit teams is that when your best hitter is 40yrs old, he's gonna be in tough to stay in the lineup fulltime.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#323800) #
"I'd just like to point out to the team that they now have our Undivided Attention. (A little later in the year than usual, perhaps.)

Anyway. No more screwing around. We will notice."

yep.

boys of winter all done.

the roof retracted.

30 degrees and sunny.

Boston in town.

now's the time.
jerjapan - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#323801) #
He's a great story sure, but it seems a bit early to be referring to Biagini as a stud, no?  more like a Liam Hendricks v2.  Let's see if he can keep this up and raise his Ks.

Spifficus, I didn't know that Beeston was behind the Clemens signing, not Ash.  Do you have a source for this?  I couldn't find anything when poking around.

uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#323802) #
well maybe not literally.

but since 5/10:

Saunders 70pa, 182wrc+
Bautusta 68pa, 176
Tulo 58pa, 144
Donaldson 66pa, 114
Smoak 57pa, 114
En'cion 73pa, 81
Martin 55pa, 72
Barney 32pa, 61
Pillar 63pa, -13

Paredes 15pa, 177
Carrera 14pa, 144
Thole 12pa, 64
Goins 27pa, 36
Travis 12pa, 31

and last 14 days:

Bautista 52pa, 217
Saunders 58pa, 148
Tulowitzki 44pa, 121
Donaldson 50pa, 113
Martin 45pa, 91
En'cion 58pa, 90
Barney 25pa, 87
Smoak 53pa, 73
Pillar 47pa, -2

Carrera 12pa, 189
Paredes 15pa, 178
Travis 12pa, 31
Goins 20pa, 16
Thole 8pa, 14
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#323803) #
"He's a great story sure, but it seems a bit early to be referring to Biagini as a stud, no?"

maybe you prefer Terminator?
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#323804) #
Spifficus, I didn't know that Beeston was behind the Clemens signing, not Ash. Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find anything when poking around.

Spiffiicus is correct, this was well publicized at the time. Beeston said that he pointed to the World Series rings on his fingers when he met with Clemens to talk him into it.

In any event, I would have said that Ash's greatest contribution was leaving well enough alone from certain areas, like the draft, and letting people more competent than him make calls. Ih his period, Interbrew was not interested in owning the team, nor in paying money on draft picks. Some of his, like Vernon Wells, were ridiculed as overdrafts because he couldn't pay the money. There were great people on board, like Tim Wilkens and Chris Buckley. Halladay was a great draft pick. When you look through the Halladay draft draft Toronto found gold in a coal field,

Ash's worst moves were those for which he was more responsible. The free agent signings and trades.
Spifficus - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#323805) #
Yeah, the ring conversation was talked about openly, and the handshake agreement was referred to a lot in the press (though never admitted, if I recall, since having a side deal outside of the contract would have been frowned upon by the league).
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#323806) #
Tulo to DL :(

Loup up.
scottt - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#323807) #
Just to be clear, Floyd's nickname is apparently Count  and not Pretty Boy.

Count? I don't like the sound  of that.
jerjapan - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#323809) #
Tulo to DL :(

uhh-oh. 

For the record Ugly, call Biagini whatever you like, I'm just surprised to hear you so bullish on a 25 year old AA rule v guy - why the optimism? 

As for nicknames, I'm still hopeful #Canadianrakin' comes back  - I figure people will be happy enough to see the Jays slugging that they'll overlook the (awesome) cheesiness of the nickname.

Thanks for the feedback on Ash - I didn't think I could possibly have a lower impression of his tenure, but suddenly I do. 
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#323810) #
Just having some fun at the expense of the old decrepit red sox, jer.


Loup Rehab:

AAA: 2.2ip, 27.3k%, 0.0bb%, 0.00era, 0.86fip
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#323811) #
that being said i've liked biagini since the first time i saw him in spring - hard heavy stuff. My only concern is whether he can maintain his solid command - if he can, i don't see any reason he can't be a very good RP. And these are the exact types I love to build a bullpen with, just like with Hendriks or Cecil or Jansen in the past.

Though i'm not so bullish on the rumors that they want him to start next year - I doubt that'll work.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#323812) #
barney starting at SS vs the rhp again.
Mike Green - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#323813) #
I hope that they use Loup for JBJ/Shaw rather than Ortiz.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#323814) #
bottom order production is so 2015.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#323815) #
Boy are the Sox getting jobbed at the plate.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#323816) #
Yeah poor sox.

barney flashing the leather today.
scottt - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#323817) #
Here's that BoSox BABIP again.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#323818) #
that was a poorly pitched AB to hanley. ball ball ball then meatball.
SK in NJ - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#323819) #
Stroman pumping in 2-seamers in order to pitch to contact is going to limit his growth as a SP. It's only 10 starts, but Sanchez has shown me more potential in these first two months of the season than Stroman has, and I never thought I'd say that.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#323820) #
yikes, stroman. what was that?
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#323821) #
That's 2 awful starts in Stroman's last 3. That's a bit worrisome.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#323822) #
Skydome has been a house of horrors for Tazawa. Hope that continues.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#323823) #
welcome back, Devon!

one more hit now, boys.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#323824) #
Good to get Darwin Barney out of the game.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#323825) #
squeeze bunt.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#323826) #
massive, massive hit from Joey there. massive.

lets go now, MVP.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#323827) #
thank god Bautista was in the leadoff spot.

at least they got Kimbrel to 14 pitches. Will make it tough for him to throw another inning.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#323828) #
dear lord.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#323829) #
This game is bonkers.
eudaimon - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#323830) #
Nice to see Martin hit again ;)



BlueJayWay - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#323831) #
Oh man.
eudaimon - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#323832) #
Game of the year! So far at least...
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#323833) #
bottom of the order production! that's all kinds of awesome.

farrell left kimbrel in for 40 pitches. heh.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#323834) #
oh man what a whiff by Hanley the fake 1B. that makes me even happier.
CeeBee - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#323835) #
Martin's washed up, isn't he?
eudaimon - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#323836) #
4-0 with Devon Travis in the lineup
BlueJayWay - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#323837) #
That feels kind of like the win against Houston last year.
Spifficus - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#323838) #
Ahh, the wonderful insanity that is Baseball's ebbs and flows. It's always crazy to see it pack so many transitions into one game, going from early lead to sure-fire loss to great comeback, back with a soul-crushing homer, and only to be finished off with a rally off one of the greatest closers. In its efforts to remind every ballplayer of their mortality, it shows us a stolen base, a throwing error and a ball not blocked off a (the?) premier defensive catcher, all in the same inning.
John Northey - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#323839) #
What fun. Travis wanted to keep that streak alive so he got the hit needed :)

This offense, when healthy (just missing Tulo now - better on DL than scuffling) things are scary for all other clubs. Gibbons putting Bautista #1 in the lineup must be messing with other teams by now as you just don't do that. But it sure has worked.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#323840) #
"Martin's washed up, isn't he?"

untradeable anchor.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#323841) #
"off a (the?) premier defensive catcher,"

don't contribute to the hype - none of iglesias, bradley, or vazquez have been the generational defenders like the baseball world bestowed on them before they even played an mlb game.

vazquez in particular has a pretty serious issue with passed balls.
SK in NJ - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#323842) #
Wow, can't say I expected a win there. Great comeback.
scottt - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#323843) #
The 2 Ks from Loup are very encouraging.
Having the 2013-14 Loup on the team would solve a lot of problems.

Spifficus - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#323844) #
Iglesias, no (he has some Rey Ordonez overhype going on). Bradley is quite good but I never thought of him as premier (he maximizes what he has, but his speed isn't enough to make him truly elite defensively). I'm having a hard time placing Vazquez, though. He's not Yadier hayday, but I can't think of who might be clearly better than him right now. Perez? Maybe Lucroy if you're more of a blame-the-pitcher sort on SBs. Maybe Molina still has enough of his game intact in spite of injuries. I do think Vazquez at least gets his way into the conversation.
Dave Till - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#323845) #
So many little things went right for the Jays in the 9th inning:

- If Carrera hadn't pinch-run for Smoak, it might have been difficult for Smoak to score on Martin's game-tying double (though he might have made it anyway).

- If Martin hadn't been alert on the ball that got away at home plate and advanced to third, he would not have scored on the game-ending grounder.

- If the Red Sox had a better fielding first baseman (somebody as good as, say, Justin Smoak), that game would have gone into extra innings. The throw from third beat Travis to the bag, but Ramirez couldn't handle it.

Three base hits when down to the final strike - I wonder if that has happened before.
CeeBee - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#323846) #
Nice to see the Yankees getting it handed to them as well as the Jays win/Boston lose. Bad looking day turned out good.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#323847) #
By the end this game had a playoff atmosphere. It's the sort of game that Boston traditionally wins the way Toronto did, appearing as if it had been willed.

I wondered if the Blue Jays would walk Ortiz in the 9th with one out, and I wondered whether Farrell would walk Travis (as he should have) to let Ryan Goins have his first at bat of the game against Kimbrel.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#323848) #
" I do think Vazquez at least gets his way into the conversation."

absolutely. he's a good receiver with a great arm. I just hate hearing people hand the crown over to a rookie, especially when he has a big hole in his defensive game so far.

and don't forget to include martin in that conversation.
King Ryan - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#323849) #
"Three base hits when down to the final strike - I wonder if that has happened before."

Oh I do love a challenge. :-)

I was able to find 26 such games. The most recent was this game from 2014. Cleveland was down 3-4 in the 9th against Joe Nathan. After two strikeouts to start the inning, Murphy singled on a 3-2 count, and Jerjapan's favourite player Yan Gomes followed with a 3-2 single of his own. Bourn then hit a 2-2 single to tie the game. Alas, the Indians lost in extras.

The last game I could find involving the Jays was this game from 2010. Jays were down to their last strike when Edwin homered to left. Adam Lind then hit an 0-2 pinch-hit homer of his own to right, and Fred Lewis (remember him?) hit a 2-2 double. It wasn't enough to win though, and Hill flew out to end the game in an 8-6 loss.

If you restrict it only to games where the batting team WON the game in the same inning, such as today, then it narrows my search to only 8 games, none involving the Jays.

Most recent I could find was from 2007 and involved two infamous Blue Jays. After Frank Francisco gave up two runs in the top of the 9th, giving Milwaukee a 3-0 lead, Franicsco Cordero came in to close it out. He got 2 quick outs and then gave up a single and a walk. The Rangers then hit 3 two-strike singles to tie the game, and Michael Young won it with a fourth single.

....and now you know.
Spifficus - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#323850) #
I was thinking about Martin, but I arbitrarily decided he was in the next tier down. Of course, that could be just a kind of proximal bias, where I get to see enough flaws (pitch blocking) to cast doubt. If I were to watch any team as much, I would probably find similar doubts about each catcher.
John Northey - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#323851) #
Hows about the most famous case? 1986 game 6 of the World Series. Red Sox about to end the curse with two quick fly outs, no one on 2 run lead for the Sox. Then 2-1 count single for Gary Carter, 0-1 single for Kevin Mitchell, 0-2 single for Ray Knight, 3-2 E3 for Mookie Wilson (ball through Buckner's legs). Huh, just twice to the last strike but still dang close.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#323852) #
Nice to see us get to Kimbrel and Chapman right off the bat. Takes the mystique out a bit.
Gerry - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#323853) #
In further post-season score settling..... Noah Syndergaard gets ejected for throwing behind Utley. Meanwhile Matt Bush doesn't even get suspended for throwing and hitting Joey.
uglyone - Saturday, May 28 2016 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#323854) #
Greg Wisniewski
@coolhead2010

Devon Travis, per MLB, hit a 103.3 mph fastball from Chapman for a single the other day. No other top 50 speed pitch has resulted in a hit.
Dave Till - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#323856) #

Meanwhile Matt Bush doesn't even get suspended for throwing and hitting Joey.

I assume that this was because Bush was acting on the direct orders of his manager, and MLB recognized this. Bush wasn't on the Rangers in 2015, and was just promoted; he would have no personal reason to throw at Joey Bats.

Also, he has enough hit batters in the minors (5 in 88 innings) for there to be reasonable doubt that it was deliberate. (Though I think it was intentional.)

Jonny German - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#323857) #
Syndergaard deserved to be ejected. As did Matt Bush. As did Phil Hughes when he threw 2 in a row at Donaldson without successfully hitting him. Rosenthal has a column up complaining about the lack of consistency from the umps, but he's missing the real point: the ump that tossed Syndergaard is the one who handled the situation properly. The tradition of allowing intentional plunkings has to end somewhere.
Dave Till - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#323858) #
I'm okay with ejecting the pitcher in those situations, provided the manager is ejected as well.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#323859) #
Over his past 14 games, Russell Martin has an OBP of .321 and an OPS of .770.   That's not bad for a catcher who was supposedly "done."  It also eliminates the final "black hole" in the lineup that we were complaining about earlier in the season.  Now let's see if he can keep up the hitting.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#323860) #
I love Price and do not care for Dickey.....but not today.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#323861) #
"Nice to see us get to Kimbrel and Chapman right off the bat. Takes the mystique out a bit."

For sure, although it already feels like we've seen him a thousand times.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#323862) #
Line drives at fielders for both pitchers. The BABIP gods are making amends for yesterday.
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#323863) #
I'd get Thole to bunt.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#323864) #
buck crying about the state of bunting in the modern game as Joey smashes a HR. heh.

win or lose today, the jays are finally back to playing real baseball.
Jonny German - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#323865) #
I also agreed with the bunt call for Thole, and although he failed to get it down, and struck out, it's nice that he stayed up there for 6 pitches. Price is up to 89 through 5 innings and thus unlikely to pitch into the 7th. With Kimbrel likely unavailable and Tazawa & Uehara already beat up by the Jays in this series that's a problem for the Sox.
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#323866) #
Some hitters need to come into a game ready to bunt. Like a guy hitting under 200 batting 9th against a pitcher throwing from the wrong side of the bag.
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#323867) #
Dickey took a no-hitter into the 6th, but it only takes a bad inning to waste a great start.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#323868) #
come on dickey we need you to get out of this one jam.
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#323869) #
Dickey is over 100 pitches. That's enough methinks.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#323870) #
dammit.

bases loaded for the bullpen. maybe loup changes our luck here.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#323871) #
oh its Girodo. huh.

dickey shows why how he's pitching is meaningless as to the decision when to pull him is.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#323872) #
sigh

would be nice to make them actually earn these runs.
Jonny German - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#323873) #
Oops. 7-pitch 6th for Price leaves him at 96 pitches and looking good to pitch the 7th.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#323874) #
please take advantage of this.martin has to hit here no?
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#323875) #
i get that he likes to give martin full days off but man in a one run game with the boston sweep on the line and martin red hot i really would have liked to see him used there.

but at least thole got the sac down this time I guess.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#323876) #
that was a beautiful swing.

listening to the instant dissappointment in NESN's voices was just as beautiful.
Jonny German - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#323877) #
Beauty.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#323878) #
I am very much enjoying this reprieve from Buck and Tabler.

Sportsnet can save some money by just using the opponent's feed every game. It's win-win.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#323879) #
excellent idea, King.

let's start a petition.
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#323880) #
Osuna not available?
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#323881) #
he went 3 days in a row b4 yesterday....in a tie game here i guess gibby wants to avoid using him if possible.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#323882) #
or maybe not.
Chuck - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#323883) #
Paredes looked to be trying to end the game with a 500-foot single.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#323884) #
martin almost cost us there. he's gotta block those.
Jonny German - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#323885) #
I'm guessing Gibbons reasoning in stretching Biagini to a second inning had a lot to do with the bottom of the Sox lineup due up in the 9th.
Chuck - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#323886) #
I'm guessing Gibbons reasoning in stretching Biagini to a second inning...

Could also just be that precious few relievers are trusted right now. Having Biagini, a lifetime starter, go two innings shouldn't be a big request.

Chuck - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#323887) #
Betances/Miller/Chapman retire all 9 batters faced today, striking out 7 of them.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#323888) #
floyd not brimming with confidence here.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#323889) #
floyd lucky to get anyone out there. they bailed him out by swinging at a bunch of balls.

can storen finally get the fans on his side?
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#323890) #
No excuse for Floyd's terrible outing there.  He has to throw strikes and trust his defence.  He was bouncing everything in the dirt.  A reliever has to be able to throw strikes.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#323891) #
That's an emphatic no.
Spifficus - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#323892) #
I would say the excuse was that he couldn't throw strikes, which is a reason for not being able to throw strikes. Often times, it's an execution thing, not a will thing. Not everyone executes all the time.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#323893) #
It's significant to note that Floyd has been pitching poorly in has past 5 outings, even before today.   Going back to May 14, opposing hitters have been bashing him to the tune of a .950 OPS, including 3 home runs.  But until today, at least he wasn't walking a lot of hitters.   And then today he lost his command too.  I wonder if there's a health issue, given his injury history?   In any event, I can see why Gibbons prefers Biagini ahead of Floyd right now.  And he probably prefers Chavez ahead of Floyd too. 

It's extraordinary that the Jays have had only 2 reliable relievers this season:  Osuna and a Rule 5 guy.

Chuck - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#323894) #
I wonder if Jeff Tam and Kerry Ligtenburg are busy this summer.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#323895) #
To be honest, the Jays best chance at winning the game was when Bautista/Donaldson/Edwin faced LHP Robbie Ross. That was their chance. Can't expect the bullpen to hold on forever.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#323896) #
disappointing that we kinda handed them both their rallies today.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#323897) #
"....Not everyone executes all the time...."

That's true.  But in this case, Floyd hardly executed anything at all.  He threw 3 balls to the low-hitting catcher, but managed to get him out.  Then he threw 4 consecutive balls to Swihart, and looked so bad that Pete Walker had to come out to talk to him.  And then he throws a very wild pitch, allowing the runner on 1st base to get all the way to 3rd base.  And then he walks Betts (on the same pitch actually).  That's just terrible execution.  In a tie game, when you're facing just 3 hitters, you can't be throwing wild pitches and walking hitters on 4 pitches.  That's really letting down your team.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#323898) #
"....the Jays best chance at winning the game was when Bautista/Donaldson/Edwin faced LHP Robbie Ross..."

Yes, agreed.  And they had another chance in the 10th inning, when they should have been able to take advantage of Buchholz. 
Chuck - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#323899) #
Not everyone executes all the time.

Henry VIII did.

johnny was - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#323900) #
I'm hoping we'll soon see a blockbuster trade for... Fernando Rodney.  No seriously.  He hasn't allowed an earned run so far this year for the Padres and got a heck of a lot better last season after the Jays graciously informed the Mariners that he'd been tipping pitches. 
scottt - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#323901) #
Losing to Clay Buthholz even when he doesn't start is a new low.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#323902) #
The homers by Bautista and Encarnacion were nice to see today, but exactly half of the Jays hits were from Barney and Carrera.  The rest of the lineup had only 5 hits in 38 plate appearances.  The offence still needs to get untracked. 
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#323903) #
Price is a pretty good pitcher.

pretty good game for their #1 vs our #5.
China fan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#323904) #
"....Price is a pretty good pitcher....."

Yes, but the Jays scored only 1 run in nearly 5 innings against the Sox bullpen -- with Kimbrel unavailable.

However, your larger point is correct:  the Jays have still won 3 consecutive series.  It was just frustrating to lose a winnable game.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#323905) #
That was the first time this season Storen came into a game mid-inning. Every other appearance he has entered with nobody out, nobody on.

So of course he immediately joins the "not my runners, not my problem" club.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#323906) #
Losing to Clay Buthholz even when he doesn't start is a new low.

Exactly my thought as well.
Spifficus - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#323907) #

But in this case, Floyd hardly executed anything at all.

Sure. And that happens, too. Sometimes, a guy doesn't have it coming out of the pen. Almost everyone has moments like this, so they quite clearly Can, and Do. That's why the "inexcusable" or "Can't do ____" just seems so silly. Sure, it's frustrating when a reliever comes in and can't throw strikes. FAR more frustrating is when a reliever comes in with the bases loaded and throws sliders until he gets to 3 and 2. The Girado performance was far more of a head-meet-wall for me than someone simply having control issues in an appearance. Not being able to execute is annoying, but making bad choices is far worse, since they're controllable. Either way, though, "Can't" and "inexcusable" are words for crotchity old announcers whining about how nobody can bunt anymore.

uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#323908) #
well, four straight pitches in the dirt to the #9 hitter was pretty infuriating.
Spifficus - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#323909) #
Infuriating, sure. I highly suspect he wasn't trying to do that, though.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#323910) #
I also feel like of the 7 or so pitches that got away this game, Martin could have probably blocked one of them. That would have been cool.
eudaimon - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#323911) #
Yeah, the Jays missed their opportunity to win when they let that lefty off the hook. I forget his name, but Farrell leaving him in against our top three righties was a dumb decision. Bautista was like 5/6 against him I remember, with 2 doubles and a home run or something like that. Donaldson had good numbers against him as well. But no runs were scored, and the Jays went on to lose. Even bad decisions work out sometimes.

I still feel good about the offense though. Price was good, and we had some good at bats against him, especially early. Could have done more against the bullpen I guess, but then again we did plenty against them the previous two games.

Otherwise, there's no one really reliable in the Jays pen right now once you get past Osuna / Biagini. I knew we were in bad shape when I was actually happy to see Drew Storen take over from the train wreck that was Gavin Floyd. I think we will need to address this at some point. How, I'm not sure.

Oh, and I agree with Spifficus on the "inexcusable" thing. That's one of my pet peeves. If somethings inexcusable, then you better release the player after the game - their performance can't be excused, after all. Gavin Floyd sucked, there's nothing else to it. I'm sure he was trying mighty hard to not suck. If he wasn't, only then would I actually think it was inexcusable.

Dave Till - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#323912) #
I too wondered about Farrell's decision to leave the lefty in against Bautista and Donaldson. I've always believed that Gibbons was a much better manager than Farrell, and today's game hasn't exactly changed my mind.

Gavin Floyd looked like he wanted to be somewhere else today. Presumably, he just didn't have anything. It happens, especially considering he's a former starter who is used to pitching at consistent intervals.

Biagini looks great, but he hasn't had to encounter adversity yet. If he can figure out how to pitch on the days when he doesn't have his best stuff, he'll last a long time in this league.

I don't remember a lot about Storen's previous outings - this is perhaps a protective mechanism of the brain - but I wonder if he has always been just a thrower rather than a pitcher. His approach today seemed to be just to fling his best stuff up there and assume that batters won't touch it. But he's lost some velocity, so that won't work any more.

At the start of this series, I think we would have been happy with 2 out of 3. So I'll go with that.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#323913) #
I too wondered about Farrell's decision to leave the lefty in against Bautista and Donaldson. I've always believed that Gibbons was a much better manager than Farrell, and today's game hasn't exactly changed my mind.

Dave, I have to disagree with you on every point here. I thought Farrell ate Gibbons lunch all series, and today in particular, and in that inning in particular. In fact I thought the end of that inning, with Paredes striking out after flailing at three pitches, was a reasonably predictable result John Gibbons' managing which Farrell took advantage of. With Justin Smoak on second, one out in the bottom of the 8th and the bottom of the order coming up Gibbons couldn't resist putting Paredes in the game for the second game in a row to pinch run for Smoak. With extra innings looming. The chances in that circumstance of Paredes vs Smoak scoring in that circumstance would be very slightly in the former's favour, but by far the greatest likelihood was that it would make no difference at all - either the Blue Jays would score either way or much more likely, they wouldn't score and Smoak would be out of the batting lineup and Paredes in. That is exactly what happened the next inning. And with two out and the winning run again in scoring position, with Encarnacion up, Farrell took the bat out of his hands with the semi-intentional walk to get to the guy that Gibbons' made his 5-hole hitter, waiver wire fodder Jimmy Paredes. Gibbons' poor move cost the Jays Encarnacion's at bat the next inning and Smoak's for the game.

i thought the only poor move that Farrell made was yesterday in not doing the same thing to Gibbons again. Gibbons took the bat from Barney who was two for three, to bring in Jimmy Paredes who hits better than no one. But that wasn't the worst part to me, because again it was clear that the Blue jays were going to have to put Goins into the order. As I wrote yesterday, I thought Farrell would walk Travis in the 9th with first and second open and his run meaningless with a man on third, and pitch Kimbrel vs. Goins which strikes me as one of the greatest mismatches in baseball. It would have zeroed in again on a poor move by Gibbons but Farrell chose not to do that and pitch to Travis, which I thought was his mistake.

In Friday's games, the consistent walking of Saunders to get to Tulowitzki was embarrassing not only to Tulowitzki, but to Gibbons as well who had put him that high in the order. Farrell ate Gibbons' batting order decisions up. I don't think he would have walked Saunders every time, had Smoak been batting there as he should have.

As for using Ross, he had no Kimbrel today and he wasn't going to use Tazawa. The game was headed for extras and using a pitcher for one out in that situation is a luxury he couldn't afford. And Robbie Ross is a fairly good pitcher. The left/right thing is overblown in my view. If Gibbons had Cecil in that situation, he wouldn't have used him for one batter.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#323914) #
I was at today's game, and had some random thoughts about it.

With Price and Buchholz taking their sweet time and the Red Sox batters following suit, I found myself often daydreaming of Mark Buehrle.  If the league decides to get serious about the time of games, it might affect the Red Sox more than other teams.  For now, all I can say is that a team of Hargroves isn't entertaining.

In the "wrong again" department, you can take bows, Ezequiel Carrera and Darwin Barney.  Carrera has done everything one could have asked from a fourth outfielder (heck, he has the highest OPS on the team...no joke).  Barney isn't Ozzie Smith at shortstop, but he looks perfectly capable to me.  And his hitting has been really impressive- line drives every which way. So, mea culpa, gentlemen, for questioning your abilities.

Either team could easily have won today's game, as was true of the first two.  If you win two out of three like this, you take it and move on.  The offence did some things right today- making Price work and getting him out relatively early.  The pitchers did some things right too.  I could understand everything Gibbons did.  The only thing I'll say that I learned from today's game is that personally I would rather have Venditte facing a lefty with the bases loaded than Girodo.  It's a pretty small thing.
King Ryan - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#323915) #
"Bautista was like 5/6 against him I remember, with 2 doubles and a home run or something like that. Donaldson had good numbers against him as well. But no runs were scored, and the Jays went on to lose. Even bad decisions work out sometimes. "

I just want to correct you because the numbers were so ridiculous: Bautista was 5/6 with 2 homers, a double and a triple.

You know how in hockey, your team gets a late power play and you feel like if your team doesn't score on the power play they are certainly going to lose? That was sort of what that felt like when they didn't get any runs off Ross.
SK in NJ - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#323916) #
Floyd was being used on back-to-back days, and I believe he warmed up on Friday despite not being used. He has a history of arm problems and has never been a reliever prior to this season and a few games at the end of last season. I guess Gibbons didn't have much choice today since he was running out of RP's to use, but Floyd should not be used this aggressively, IMO.

The issue with the Jays pen, and I said this in ST, is Sanchez getting a rotation spot effectively put two guys who are better as SP's in the bullpen (Floyd/Chavez). That would have been fine if Cecil/Storen were pitching like we expected them to, but with both of them struggling/hurt, it created a bit of chaos as far as who to put in certain roles. Biagini panning out, at least so far, has been a huge boost. In hindsight, if Sanchez as a SP was more of a sure thing in the off-season (rather than a very pleasant surprise), then they could have traded Dickey for a more conventional reliever and used Chavez/Floyd in the rotation. Then sign or trade for an additional depth starter (ex. Dan Straily was traded in ST since he was out of options). It would have been riskier since Dickey, at the very worst, will pitch 200 IP which has value, but looking back, it would have at least made the roles a bit more beneficial to the individual parts.

Regardless, taking 2/3 from Boston is good, but this was a very sweepable series based on the chances the Jays had today. Oh well. Take the series win and keep the momentum going.
uglyone - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#323917) #
gibbons schooled farrell this game.

he got the better matchup every single time.
Magpie - Sunday, May 29 2016 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#323918) #
Jimmy Paredes who hits better than no one.

Well, to be fair, his career numbers suggest that Paredes is a better hitter than Darwin Barney or Ryan Goins. Which is not a very high bar, of course. Paredes is waiver-wire fodder because he's an infielder with a lousy glove who would have to be platooned anyway, as he's more or less baffled by LH pitching. It leaves a skill set that's just a bit too narrow for the modern micro-sized bench.
Magpie - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#323919) #
They had a lot of former Jays on hand at the park today, and the Star asked lots of them to recall their most memorable hit as a Jay. Lloyd Moseby couldn't remember a hit - he remembered a sac bunt he laid down in the clinching game against the Orioles in 1989. (It was the Saturday afternoon game - with the Jays trailing 3-1 in the bottom of the eighth, Moseby came up with men on first and second, no one out, and bunted the runners into scoring position. RBI singles from Wilson and McGriff tied the game, and a Bell sac fly put the Jays ahead.)

But here's what gets me - the night before Moseby had delivered a walk-off single in the 11th inning to win the game that clinched a tie for the division title, and this was after the Orioles had intentionally walked Junior Felix so they could pitch to Moseby. He didn't remember that?
Mike Green - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#323920) #
Bautista looked like a young pup in the field and running out ground balls- the forced day off probably did him some good.  At his age, a day off per month (at least) seems like a good policy.  He also looked totally at home at first base.

I know that it is unconventional, but it seems to me that the club right now would be better served by having Biagini and Floyd share the set-up role with each throwing 2 innings, and not throwing in the same game.  You could even throw Chavez in there doing the same thing so that there is always two days off between outings.  Floyd is not  well suited to the workload demands of the conventional set-up role. Alternatively, you could just treat Biagini as the set-up man.  It's a lot of pressure to put on a rook, but he's a cool customer.

Dave Till - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#323922) #

The issue with the Jays pen, and I said this in ST, is Sanchez getting a rotation spot effectively put two guys who are better as SP's in the bullpen (Floyd/Chavez).

I'm not that sure that Floyd and Chavez would be doing better in the starting rotation. Floyd's ERAs during his last healthy years in the rotation in Chicago were 4.08, 4.37, and 4.29; his ERA in Toronto is 3.91, with comparable walk and home run rates. Chavez had an ERA of 4.18 last year in Oakland, which is a bit more pitcher friendly; he's at 3.63 now.

That would have been fine if Cecil/Storen were pitching like we expected them to, but with both of them struggling/hurt, it created a bit of chaos as far as who to put in certain roles.

I think that's really the problem. No one expected both Cecil and Storen to crash and burn, and everybody else has been forced out of their roles to try to fill the holes.

The situation is better than last year, though. I'd rather have a team with a good starting rotation and bad 7th/8th inning relievers - you can probably eventually find somebody to cover those spots from somewhere, but it's hard to find an extra starting pitcher.

with Encarnacion up, Farrell took the bat out of his hands with the semi-intentional walk... As I wrote yesterday, I thought Farrell would walk Travis in the 9th with first and second open and his run meaningless with a man on third, and pitch Kimbrel vs. Goins

Not sure I want to give Farrell credit for semi-walking EE when he didn't order a walk Travis to face Goins. From what I remember of Farrell in Toronto, he mostly just put the same people in the same roles every day, and then just sat there and looked managerial with that strong chin and all. (He wasn't smart enough to platoon Adam Lind, for example.) But I admit to a possible bias and a distinct lack of research of this subject. :-)

But here's what gets me - the night before Moseby had delivered a walk-off single in the 11th inning to win the game that clinched a tie for the division title, and this was after the Orioles had intentionally walked Junior Felix so they could pitch to Moseby. He didn't remember that?

I was at that game. One of the three most intense baseball experiences of my life. (The other two were the Bat Flip home run game and the 1992 clincher, but I watched those on the tube.)

Dave Till - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#323923) #
One more thought on yesterday's game: when the Jays TV broadcast lost its feed, I flipped over to the Sox broadcast (yay MLB TV!) and just stayed there. It was a relief to hear broadcasters discussing what was happening in the game, and the Sox broadcasters were actually praising the Sox less than Buck and Pat were.
uglyone - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#323925) #
it is pretty much impossible to be a better starter than reliever, imo.
uglyone - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#323926) #
2014-16

Smoak 749pa, 100wrc+ (105 vRH, 89 vLH)
Carrera 325pa, 100wrc+ (82 vRH, 168 vLH)
Paredes 466pa, 99wrc+ (100 vRH, 96 vLH)

Barney 377pa, 92wrc+ (86 vRH, 104 vRH)
Pillar 958pa, 87wrc+ (87 vRH, 88 vLH)

Goins 747pa, 58wrc+ (66 vRH, 28 vLH)
Thole 251pa, 55wrc+ (53 vRH, 63 vLH)

Paredes is a solid enough bat that gibby shouldn't be scared to use him.


sidenote: I had no idea that zeke had such a crazy reverse split.
Mike Green - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#323927) #
There may be pitchers who are not suited to throwing on consecutive days because of prior injury. 

One more thing about yesterday's game.  David Price did not dial it up once.  Last year, he could add velocity as the situation required.  He did not do so at all yesterday and the Blue Jays actually him hit pretty hard (despite the lack of hits).  The average velocity of his fastball is down, according to fangraphs, and so this may be a new normal for him (or it may be just an early season lull).   
Magpie - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#323930) #
the 1992 clincher

I'm assuming you're referring to the WS clincher - the Winfield double, the Nixon bunt. But yes - that WS game (which I listened to on the radio!!) and the Bat Flip game (watched on TV) get my votes.

But I really should also mention the Bucky Dent Game. What can I say? I was young, I was foolish, I didn't live in Toronto - I was a long-suffering Yankees fan. Too young to have enjoyed any of the glory. Just old enough to have lived through Horace Clarke. I actually moved to Toronto about two weeks after that World Series, and had my priorities properly sorted within a couple of years. Anyway - that was one hell of a game. I watched it on YouTube a few months back, and it's still a hell of a game. Even when I know what happens, and now wish that somehow both teams could lose...

Most intense in-person game for me was easily the Roberto Kelly game. The Carter home run was definitely a great moment, but the game as a whole - fun and tense as it was - just doesn't compare.
ComebyDeanChance - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#323933) #
But I really should also mention the Bucky Dent Game. What can I say? I was young, I was foolish, I didn't live in Toronto - I was a long-suffering Yankees fan.

That's some 'long suffer'. You'd been suffering at least since the previous October, when the Yankees won the World Series. And the one before that when they got to meet Johnny Bench.
Gerry - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#323935) #
Baseball Savant has a report showing who has allowed the most batted balls with an exit velocity of 100mph or higher. The top pitcher on the list is Marcus Stroman and its not close. Too much hard contact from the Stro Show.
pooks137 - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#323937) #
Baseball Savant has a report showing who has allowed the most batted balls with an exit velocity of 100mph or higher. The top pitcher on the list is Marcus Stroman and its not close. Too much hard contact from the Stro Show.

The Jays have 4 pitchers in the top 15 of that hardest hit balls list. Only pitcher not in the top 15 is Estrada, which is not surprising with his ongoing success and seeming talent to beat FIP, suppress BABIP and induce popups.

Hard to rationalize why the Jays are getting hit so hard according to the data. Until recently, all non-Dickey pitchers were having lots of early season success.

Stroman now has been hit hard lately in May and his ERA has skyrocketed. This seems to seem to suggest that his change to pitch-to-contact lower velocity sinkers and two-seamers isn't working.

Seeing Dickey on there isn't a surprise. He has been hit hard at times and seems to confirm with his stats that his knucklers isn't leading to enough weak contact that he needs to survive

Sanchez is also somewhat surprising. The SP experiment seems to be a resounding success so far. He is also known for high velocity pitches with lots of movement, which should be suppressing hard contact. But perhaps the old broadcaster trope is true, that batters don't have to swing hard against power pitchers because "the pitcher provides the power"

Finally, surprising to see Happ on the list. He's also continued his success from last year and exceeded all expectations. He has had only one start that I can recall where he got hid hard. He seems to be suppressing all hits this year and had quite good movement and velocity for a lefty, so I'm surprised the hits he has allowed have been so hard.

uglyone - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#323939) #
our guys are all amongst the IP leaders too - we'd have to see a percentage/rate number to make sense of that stat I think.

though it seems that even on a percentage basis stroman at least does stick out in a bad way.
Magpie - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#323940) #
That's some 'long suffer'.

But it had been an entire lifetime before then! Suffering was all I had known!
SK in NJ - Monday, May 30 2016 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#323943) #
I completely disagree that there is no difference between the two roles (starting and coming out of the pen), or that it's 'impossible' to be a better starter than reliever. Pitching 2-3 days in a row at times at max effort vs. pitching every 5th day is a huge difference. Pitching one inning, some times straight out of the stretch (with runners on base), is different than starting a game. As a SP, you're using multiple pitches, while as an RP, you tend to rely on 1 or 2 of your best. When you're dealing with someone like Floyd who has started his entire career and now suddenly at age 33 is throwing 3 days in a row, it's likely not anything he is accustomed to. If you look at Chavez's career, he's been replacement level as a reliever for the most part. He has an unsustainably high HR rate right now, but even when that settles down, he's far better as a SP based on his career. Hell, look at Sanchez. In 10 starts this season he's destroyed everything he ever did as a reliever in 2014/15. It's not impossible to be a better SP than reliever. It's easier to be a good reliever, sure, but some guys can be better as SP's.

I believe Fangraphs had an article stating that relievers generally do not have a sustained amount of success long-term (it was an article about Osuna, IIRC). The role is highly volatile for a reason. Now, if you want to argue that it's easier for a failed starter to become a good reliever, then I agree. Most good relievers are failed starters in all likelyhood. But I don't think every pitcher is better as a reliever.

The pen alignment with Sanchez in the rotation never made sense outside of the top 3 (Osuna, Storen, Cecil) because it was basically two SPs, a Rule 5 pick, and a LOOGY (Loup). Sanchez panning out as a SP was great for the org, but it definitely hurt the pen short-term.
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