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It's rematch time. As is usual in MLB these days, the Jays and White Sox face off one week after their previous get together. It will be a different Jays team tonight as Richard Urena is back and Teoscar Hernandez is down in Buffalo. There could be another move before Saturday. The Jays are in a part of the schedule where they need five starters. Daniel Hudson is listed as Saturdays starter, we will see if that comes to happen. Clayton Richard is in Chicago and speculation is that he will start on Saturday.

The Jays now have fewer outfielders having lost Hernandez and Brito before him. Brandon Drury, who is being squeezed out by Vladdy and Sogard, will now see some time in the outfield, this time in left field perhaps?

The schedule is as follows:

Thursday, 8:10 - Marcus Stroman vs. Dylan Covey

Friday, 8:10 - Aaron Sanchez vs. Ivan Nova

Saturday, 2:10 - Daniel Hudson vs. Lucas Giolito

Sunday, 2:10 - Trent Thornton vs. Reynaldo Lopez


Having written the above, Drury gets a start at third base tonight as Vlad plays DH. McKinney, Davis and Grichuk are in the outfield.

Blue Jays @ White Sox, May 16-19 | 84 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
hypobole - Thursday, May 16 2019 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#374172) #
Have there been any recent updates on Borucki or Zeuch?
scottt - Thursday, May 16 2019 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#374175) #
I think the plan is to activate Richard on Saturday.
I wonder if they send Urena back down if they do that.

Magpie - Thursday, May 16 2019 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#374179) #
They may not have been keeping track of it at the time, but it's easy enough to find out now.

In 1968, Bob Gibson went 0-3 when his team scored 0 runs.
He went 4-2 when his team scored 1 run.
He went 5-3 when his team scored 2 runs.
He went 4-0 when his team scored 3 runs.
He went 9-1 when his team scored 4 or more runs.
JohnL - Thursday, May 16 2019 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#374180) #
The Gibson stats reminded me of a Halladay quote about Felix Hernandezís 2010 season (via http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5812194)

ĎHernandez went 13-12, but topped the majors with a 2.27 ERA, led the AL in innings and was second in strikeouts. His Seattle Mariners had the worst record in the league and were either shut out or held to one run in 10 of his 34 starts.

CC Sabathia of the Yankees went 21-7 with a 3.18 ERA and Tampa Bay's David Price was 19-6 with a 2.72 ERA.

"Obviously, Felix's numbers are very, very impressive," Halladay said. "Ultimately, you look at how guys are able to win games. Sometimes, you find a way to win games."

Co-incidentally, Gibson couldnít find a way to win in those games when the Cards didnít score..
scottt - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 07:16 AM EDT (#374181) #
Jansen needs to start hitting soon. He hasn't been statistically better than Maile who is fine for a backup.

Jansen has an OPS of .447.
McGuire is at .603 in AAA.  Still not good, but only need to get hot for a few games to reach league average.

lexomatic - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 07:58 AM EDT (#374184) #
I will be very annoyed if they don't give Jansen a lot if leeway.
Shoeless Joe - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 08:15 AM EDT (#374186) #
Baseball Savant now has a framing tool, which ranks Danny in the 54th percentile, and Luke Maile is in the 45th percentile for 2019.
dalimon5 - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#374190) #
At the quarter length and I think this season so far has been a large failure, and why shouldnít it be? A front office should not be rewarded for gutting a team and replacing it with filler, itís just a lazy and irresponsible way to rebuild or retool in one of the top 5 baseball markets. So if youíre okay with full rebuilds and terrible attendance and crappy baseball I guess itís all okay, but now the prospects that are supposed to be part of the next core are struggling or staring to disappear completely.

Vlad - probably going through the worst possible transition he could have with pitchers just all over him and Smoak since the line up is so weak.

Alford - is he done yet?

Teoscar - exposed as filler

Billy - exposed as filler

Drury - not yet exposed but still has 100+ games to do that

Tellez - not getting full time at bats and we see he isnít likely a regular

Stroman, Sanchez and Giles - bright spots but do you have any confidence that they will remain with the team or be traded for prospects that wontbjoin the above list of filler?

Literally every prospect these guys develop or acquire does not pan out unless drafted...so weíre expected to wait for waves of their special drafts which should be 2016-2022 drafts...graduating 2020-2026...just in time for when Vlad leaves.

I used to believe what this front office was doing but now I just see failure to adjust. Itís frustrating. I hope Rogers loses a ton of fans and money in a fashion that forces them to react by actually investing in their investment for once.

dalimon5 - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 08:44 AM EDT (#374191) #
ďFor onceĒ should be replaced with ďagainĒ
bpoz - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#374192) #
I understand personally feeling frustrated. Also understand Rogers Jays losing a ton of fans. Rogers losing a ton of money, I don't quite understand. Are they losing a ton of money and how? It does not matter to me "what I understand and what I don't understand", I have no choice but to accept my limitations.

To go deeper into this topic from a personal point of view:

1) I accept that the Jays will win 3 WS in the next 20 years. So not win 17 WS in that time.
2) I am frustrated too. My reasons are that this team has long streaks of losing.
3) I am not frustrated by the prospect failures. My experience (Richardi) and the explanations/comments of the Bauxites have convinced me that prospect failure happens a lot.
4) Injuries to young players development Borucki, Zeuch and Justin Maese are frustrating, sad and expected. The worst part is that a young athlete's dreams are shattered.

Houston became very good in the last 2 years. But won 51 and 70 games in 2013 and 2014. 86 and 84 wins in 2015 and 2016.
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#374193) #
This FO's disengenuous performance has been cowardly from day one. The poop they have shoveled on us to big up collecting a bunch of replacement filler is embarassing.

If it wasn't for Vladdy, there would be zero hope for anything here, four years into their tenure. And they're not helping vladdy much either.

Shoeless Joe - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#374194) #
I agree that on the major league level there hasn't been a whole lot of success a quarter of the way through the season.

As painful as it for me to admit Brandon Drury is actually turning his season around. If you look at his rolling K% (50 PA) it peaked at 46% in early April, but it currently stands at a season low 26% trending downward. He has managed to keep his hard hit % at 44% which is fairly solid. I actually think he looks like at least a league average hitter the rest of the season is he keeps progressing this way.
bpoz - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#374195) #
I never understood replacement player.

Smoak and Galvis must be better than replacement?

Hanson and Brito must be quite below replacement?

What is D Hudson? His results have been frustrating to me. HRs like T Clippard last year in crucial situations.

Hoping for an analytical response. Emotional responses ... we are fans after all. Good and nice fans unlike Red Sox fans. When times get difficult they are not nice. We have Jays talk after each game. Time permitting. I cannot imagine Red Sox talk. That would be too cruel to the host.
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#374197) #
A replacement level player is defined as a player performing at the level of an average AAA call up fill in player.
Dewey - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#374199) #
It's "disingenuous", ugly.

(Yeah, it *could* matter.)
Mike Green - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#374200) #
I wouldn't get carried away.  The club is not a good one, and no one expected that it would be.  The rookies have not yet performed as projections would have suggested (sometimes rookies massively overshoot projections and sometimes they undershoot, and the error bar is definitely wider for young players with no major league data to project from).  But, when all your pitchers are doing better than expected and all your hitters are doing worse (which is pretty much the Blue Jays' situation), you have to figure that the environment is favouring pitchers in a way that may not captured by the usual adjustments.  I mean Gaviglio has been fabulous, Mayza and Biagini have been very good, Pannone, Luciano and Thornton have been decent.  If you look at the numbers, you'd think all these pitchers have developed better than all the hitters. 

Personally I dont' think that's it.  In the games that I have watched, the strike zone has been a little larger than previously.  I have particularly noticed the pitch an inch or two above the strike zone being called strikes much, much more often than I am used to.  Being consistently able to hit the top of the zone is a definite plus now.  And being able to hit that pitch, as Alex Bregman does with regularity, is particularly valuable. 
bpoz - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#374201) #
Thanks UO.

E Sogard hitting .267 in 30 ABs when called up. Urena if he can walk more, the BA is good. Defense is defense, I know poor defense when Brito caused the fielding error to Grichuk against Boston which led to some unearned runs against Sanchez. That play caused me the most grief this year.
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#374203) #
dammit dewey. i hesitated but was rushing to post. always stumble on that one.

and Mike - listing a bunch of relief pitchers as the list of successes is probably more of an indictment than anything else.
Mike Green - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#374205) #
Nope, UO.  It applies to all the pitchers.  Shoemaker did way better than reasonable expectations.  If you look at the pictures on BBRef's website of who has contributed the most bWAR, you've got Shoemaker, Stroman, Giles, Sogard, Gaviglio, Sanchez, Grichuk, Thornton, Biagini.  All the pitchers have overperformed and all the batters have underperformed.  When that happens, you can give Pete Walker credit and blame Guillermo Hernandez, or you can attribute it (at least in part) to something else.

I'm not at all surprised with any of this.  Disappointed, of course.  But I have seen nothing that suggests to me that the club should be giving up on 2020.  Indeed, the performance of Biggio, Pearson and Murphy, and the resurgence of Stroman and Sanchez has me more encouraged.  They have work to do, and they ought to be spending money and holding on to players who can contribute in 2020 (or trading for players who can contribute in 2020 in other ways).  At times Rogers has done so and at other times it has not.  Let's see what happens this time. 
Mike Green - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#374206) #
Eric Sogard missed a year in 2016 after playing his career in Oakland.  Since then, he's had some pretty steep ups and downs, but he's hit .248/.361/.358 in 506 PAs with a 69/69 W/K.  That's a fine utility infielder once Bichette and Biggio arrive.
christaylor - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#374208) #
I've heard Red Sox talk. There's a lot of it on the local sports station. The team is either the best or the worst. A given player will be ripped on until he is out of town. I haven't listened in years but I expect the airways are filled with JBJ is wicked bad and glowing praise for Barnes after wanting to resign Kimbrel. That said, from what I recall, it is no better or worse than what one would hear on Leafs talk. I've been a happy non-listened of sports radio going on 5-6 years now. The last show I remember enjoying was Behind the Lines on the Fan and Wednesday's with JP (that was "hate listening").
hypobole - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#374209) #
The FO didn't gut the team, the team gutted itself. The core got old, injured and/or toxic.
christaylor - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#374211) #
I don't understand this comment at all. If they are cowardly, what are they afraid of? Sure the major league acquisitions have been uninspiring on the whole but building a team needs marginal contributors. As awful as Brito it would have been nice if there was something there. Elvis looks like he'll stick with the team. No to split hairs but this FO has taken the team to the playoffs the same number of times as AA did.

The last two years could have been better, but while the FO has to be circumspect about what they say, things ought to be as you expected. Vladdy is the best prospect and what makes the team worth watching at the moment, but... cowardly? poop? Nah. The Jays are what they are for now and it is fine. Realistically, the next window for the Jays opens when the Yankees and Sox slow down again. The AL East is what it is...
Nigel - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#374212) #
I think this is a 90+ loss team and likely battling KC and SF for the third worst team in the majors (they can't be Miami/Baltimore bad). I completely agree that there are signs of life in various places if you look for them but turning this club into a contending team in 2020 seems too big a hill to climb. There are just so many problems on the 25 man roster that need to be fixed for which there aren't easy solutions. In a "state of the nation" sense, I think you can see that the amateur scouting department (drafting and international free agents) is performing pretty well; I think some hard questions should be asked about the pro scouting department.

Patience is key.
Shoeless Joe - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#374214) #
Nigel I was thinking that this morning as well in regards to questioning the pro scouting department.
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#374215) #
"If they are cowardly, what are they afraid of? "

afraid of being on the losing end of a bad (big) trade or a bad (big) contract.
PeterG - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#374216) #
I have always thought that 2021 is a more realistic goal for playing above .500 again and being in WC contention. The pro scouting department is going to be important as returns on trades made this season and the follwing off season could advance or regress the return to respectability by a year or more.
Mike Green - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#374217) #
Pro scouting or development or both?

One more comment about 2020.  BBRef has the payroll for 2020 at $100 million including arb.  That covers the following players:
Position- Gurriel Jr.,  Grichuk, Travis, Teoscar, Drury, Maile, Pompey, Urena, McKinney, Jansen, Tellez, Guerrero Jr., Bichette, Biggio (a 5.5 M team option on Galvis is extra)
Pitchers- Stroman, Giles, Sanchez, Shoemaker, Tepera, Pannone, Biagini, Gaviglio, Mayza, Borucki, Thornton, Pearson, Murphy

They need a centerfielder, perhaps a first baseman/DH (or they might play Drury at third and VGJ at first), perhaps a left-fielder and a starting pitcher.  I don't see this as a difficult proposition unless the club cries poor.  If they do that, they deserve an appropriate raspberry.  And if they trade off players under contract in 2020 for players who cannot contribute until 2021 or later, they won't have my respect either. 
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#374218) #
Gutted Itself:

Price: 6gs, 81era-, 4.5war32
Osuna: 18.1ip, 12era-, 3.4war65
Donaldson: 170pa, 127wrc+, 4.2war650
Encarnacion: 184pa, 124wrc+, 2.8war650
Martin: 54pa, 118wrc+, 4.8war650
Tulowitzki: 13pa, 121wrc+, 0.0war650
Bautista: ---
bpoz - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#374219) #
I am accepting the 90+ loss team.

We may not see Hanson and Brito with the ML team again. Hanson is making errors in the minors. The errors could be due to poor bounces on minor league infields and the more lively major league ball in AAA. But then he is making more errors than other players.

A wave of pitchers should arrive within a month if/when they get healthy. The position players are performing at levels that should cause them to be replaced. Hanson, Brito, T Hernandez and Gurriel have already been replaced for various reasons. Biggio and I don't know who will be up soon enough.
SK in NJ - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#374221) #
I have always looked at 2021 as a more realistic time line, but I'll echo the sentiments about the pro scouting department. Atkins has acquired a high quantity of young players over the last two years but there has been hardly any success there. Granted it is a small sample size (a month and a half) so too early to get too wrapped up on 2019 results, but if the FO is going to tank an entire season in order to play those acquired young players, then in theory you'd want to see some improvement. When all the players are either stagnating or getting worse (Teoscar, Drury, Gurriel, McKinney, Paulino in the minors, etc) it's not a good look. When you see teams like the Rays and Yankees make similar types of pick ups but have a better success rate at turning those fringey/undervalued types into big leaguers, that's not a good sign.

I'd be shocked if any of Stroman, Sanchez, or Giles are on the roster past July, so 2020 is more of a pipe dream, especially if young players don't start developing quicker in 2019.
Nigel - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#374222) #
Honestly, I have always viewed the FO's comments about the "vaunted new development department" as marketing spin. If they don't say that what are they doing other than drafting and waiting? Which is the strategy pursued by literally every non-contending team. I'm probably biased though because I live in Vancouver and every time the Canucks go through a rebuild (often) they go on a huge marketing spin about their "vaunted new development department" that is going to give their rebuild the "edge" over every other team's rebuild. It used to irritate me but now I genuinely get quite a chuckle out of it. Atkins sells it with wonderful conviction though. He's got that part down pat.
Nigel - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#374223) #
Mike, on the team's needs for 2020 I guess my list is quite a bit longer than yours. I think the team needs 2 OFs, between 3 and 5 starters (depending on trading Stroman and Sanchez), a 1B/DH, a middle infielder and likely a reliever or two. That's a long list. Some of those spots might be filled by players like Thornton proving to be a starter or Biggio being the MI, but a good chunk of that needs to be filled with at least average major league talent before this team becomes a contender. I don't see that happening all in one year.
Chuck - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#374224) #
I'm happy for those that can find some joy in watching this team. My strategy is to do my best to check in on a certain somebody's 4 at-bats a night. The rest of it... bah. I'm too old and life's too short. Maybe by 2021 the team will be watchable again.
Mike Green - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#374225) #
We differ by quite a bit, Nigel.  I really don't get the 3-5 starters needed with Stroman, Sanchez, Shoemaker, Thornton, Pearson, Murphy (and Zeuch) as plausibles. Sure you may want one starter and two cheap depth pieces, but that doesn't really affect the economics.  And as for a middle infielder, I am pretty sure that Galvis could play a fine second base if required.  All the club needs is for one of Bichette and Biggio to play the way they can in order to have a pretty good middle infield. 

Let's come back to this discussion in a month.
Nigel - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#374226) #
On the pitching side, I'm not sure we differ all that much. Leaving aside what happens with Stroman and Sanchez, your list of names might absolutely be the names to fill the remaining 3-4 spots at some point in 2020 - its just that I don't see those names giving you, say, 400-500 league averagish innings in 2020 (maybe by 2021). I agree, the next couple of months will tell us a lot about 2020.
uglyone - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#374227) #
Stroman and Sanchez are gonzo unless something happens to let them sign really cheap.

I've been resigned to waiting on the actual young core for a while now.

2B Bichette 21
1B Guerrero 20
DH Kirk 20
C Moreno 19
3B Groshans 19
SS Smith 22
OF Young 22
OF Lopez 20

RH Pearson 22
RH Castillo 20
RH Pardinho 18
LH Kloffenstein 18

With hopefully some of Jansen 24, Tellez 24, SRF 23 becoming keepers while we wait.


Which would mean any hopes of contending are at least 4-5yrs away.


The only way I see that timeone changing much is if vlad can hit well enough quickly enough that we start winning game a right now before we sell off all the good prime talent we have left.
Michael - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#374228) #
I think people are being prematurely negative on the current front office. And I say that as someone who was an AA fan and thinks it was a major screw up losing him. And also thinks the FO did blow some value giving away some of the older good players.

But the front office so far hasn't been horrible, and things aren't that dark. Yes 2021 is a more realistic timeline than 2019 or 2020 (which doesn't make 2021 a guarantee) and things can surprise in ways both good and bad. Patience, though. The front office and owners will need to make some bigger bets at some point, but they don't necessarily need to be right now.
scottt - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#374230) #
The front office has done a lot of good things, most of it by ignoring fans.
That extra year of control for Guerrero is huge.
He also loses a lot of value if he moves to 1B.
The Price contract would have been a disaster, but there's no way Rogers would have signed on it, so that doesn't really count in my book.
Extending Donaldson would have been terrible as well, comparable to the Pujols contract, perhaps.

Dr B - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#374231) #
That pretty much sums it up for me, Michael.

There is one thing that the Jays have that (some) other teams do not: budget flexibility. They have few large commitments: the contract for Morales ends this year and that for Tulowitzki in two years. Furthermore, they should have reasonable revenue streams. Some people will say that they will _never_ spend on top free agents, but I would reserve that criticism until the time it makes sense to spend. Patience. So far they have wisely kept their powder dry, but the true test will come in the next couple of years when they have a young star or two on their roster that should not be wasted by surrounding them with mediocrity.
scottt - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#374232) #
Another way to look at replacement players is just the statistical distribution.

There's 30 teams, so roughly 30 positions for each player.
The top 5 are your All-Stars, the next 10 are solid regulars, the next 5 are average players, the next 5 are your "second division regulars" and the bottom 5 are basically replacement players. Statistically, they're about the same as the average guys in AAA or possibly the bench players.

Nowadays, teams prefer to have more than 9 positions as they rotate a super-utility player instead of using a bench player. The aim is for that player to be as good as the other 9.

jerjapan - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#374233) #
The one genuinely 'cowardly' thing I see this FO having done is their half-assed attempt at contention last year, because 'the fans demanded it' or some such nonsense.  

Contend, or do not contend.  If you have a worthwhile plan, stick with the damn thing. 
scottt - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#374234) #
Finally Jansen belts one. It only took his family coming to the game.

I don't see much trade value for Sanchez.

Encarnation, like Morales would have  been traded to make room for Tellez.
Unless, maybe Smoak goes first, but I'd rather have Smoak on this team.
Donaldson has been displaced by Guerrero.
Martin had to make room for Jansen and I'd like to see McGuire instead of Maile, eventually.
Galvis is better than Tulo and he's just a placeholder for Bichette.


dalimon5 - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#374235) #
Tulo's contract is done after this year...all getting paid this year.
grjas - Friday, May 17 2019 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#374236) #
Crikey. At the beginning of spring training, the top 6 starters for the Jays- in no particular order- were Stroman, Sanchez, Buchholz, Borucki, Richard, and Shoemaker.

Only one of them is still standing.
Michael - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 03:34 AM EDT (#374237) #
It reminds you that you can never have too much pitching.

That pitchers who have been mostly consistently good do have a lot of value (Stroman).

And that if you can't even count on proven major league pitchers being healthy and adding value in one year, counting on an unproven pitching prospect several years away is really unwise. TINSTAAPP.
scottt - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 06:28 AM EDT (#374238) #
That's OK if Guerra and Gaviglio can pitch 6 shutout innings.
I was expecting Elvis to throw in a 10-2 blowout.

I guess they moved Sopko to AAA, 1 start, 5.1 innings, 3 hits, 4 Ks, 2 BB, 2 unearned runs.
Feierabend has 3 starts with an ERA of 2.70.

scottt - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#374239) #
B-Ref credits Guerrero with 0.3 dWAR after 17 games. That's encouraging.
scottt - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#374240) #
Maybe Guerra goes back to Buffalo and Feieraband gets the start.
Hudson could open for him.

cascando - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#374241) #
I fear that Sanchez is entering the territory where this front office will be unwilling to sign him for what he would probably earn in arbitration next year.

Unless Sanchez can come back and pitch consistently very soon, I think its likely he is moved in a "whatever-you-can-get" low-return, very low upside type of deal at some point this year.

PeterG - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#374242) #
Sanchez needs to become a reliever where pitching one inning at a time may help to prevent future blisters.
SK in NJ - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#374243) #
If Sanchez canít be traded for value at the deadline, then trade Giles and put Sanchez in the closer role for the final months of the season and next season. Even as a trade deadline rental in 2020, heíd likely have more value as a RP. I donít think any team is going to trust him to start in a playoff run or in the playoffs.
lexomatic - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#374246) #
If Sanchez canít be traded for value at the deadline, then trade Giles and put Sanchez in the closer role for the final months of the season and next season. Even as a trade deadline rental in 2020, heíd likely have more value as a RP. I donít think any team is going to trust him to start in a playoff run or in the playoffs.
This intuitively sounds like the best plan.
cascando - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#374247) #
"If Sanchez canít be traded for value at the deadline, then trade Giles and put Sanchez in the closer role for the final months of the season and next season."

Agreed that this is the right move. The obvious hurdle is that it would require the current administration to commit $4+ million to a RP with a significant, recent history of injury. It's possible that they could trade him at the 2020 deadline for something better, but they could almost certainly trade him at the 2019 deadline for an MLB-ready bottom of the roster guy in the Hernandez, McKinney, Drury mold. The latter seems like the safer play, and therefore the path this management group is most likely to take.
ISLAND BOY - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#374248) #
The pitcher in today's game for the White Sox, Lucas Giolito, was selected 16th in the 2012 MLB draft by the Washington Nationals, one pick before the Jays who took DJ Davis. The next pick was by the Dodgers who took Corey Seager. Interestingly, if you look at Seager's stats , they have gone down each of the five years he's been in the majors for some reason. Also, the Jays redeemed themselves for the Davis pick by nabbing Marcus Stroman at number 20 of the same draft.
Cracka - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#374249) #
Ryan Feierabend gets credit for a complete game - just the 12th in MLB this season - in his first start as a Jay. Probably been a while since that has happened. With any luck, it will hopefully be his only start this season. It was like he was tossing batting practice today.
scottt - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#374250) #
Yeah, I guess he's still a AAAA player.
John Northey - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#374251) #
I'd like him to trust his knuckleball more. Use it for 80-90% of his pitches. To succeed as a knuckleballer you need to do that. I'd be good with him getting 5-10 starts just to see if there is anything there with the knuckler. He should be able to eat innings with any luck, or even go on short rest if needed.
hypobole - Saturday, May 18 2019 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#374253) #
Finally saw some injury updates.

Bo's hand healing well, but still a few weeks away from returning.
Buchholz has a grade 2 strain in his back/shoulder. Getting 2nd opinion. Lengthy recovery.
Travis with another setback. Knee inflammation. No timetable.
Phelps threw his 3rd live batting practice.
Pompey running,throwing, hitting, but no game activity yet.
Borucki throwing on flat ground and will start long toss next week. Return probably mid-late June if all goes well.
Petey Baseball - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 07:00 AM EDT (#374256) #
What makes me wary (but still open minded) about the approach the Jays are taking is looking at the Twins. In the off-season they went out and got guys that can still play; Pineda, Cron, Schoop, Gonzalez and the Jays went dumpster diving. They were all short term commitments (Gonzalez being the only one past this year).

It's true that it probably wouldn't be enough against the Yankees and Rays, but it would sure make this rebuild a heckuva lot easier to watch.
hypobole - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#374257) #
I'm the opposite, Petey. The Twins were coming out of their rebuild and put those complimentary pieces around their young core because they were ready to contend.

With this team, I'm fine with awful results at this point. I'd rather be really bad than mediocre. That said the FO must ace their high pick next year A young Vernon Wells or Lloyd Moseby. If they end up with an Augie Schmidt or Billy Koch, this season would be a failure.

85bluejay - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#374260) #
I've read that San Diego & Arizona are looking to add starting pitching - the Jays better get a move on before the Mets give up & decide to sell
finch - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#374262) #
Although I'm a huge fan of Stroman and what he brings, let's move: Stroman, Sanchez, Smoak and Giles. What could we get?

Houston: Stroman
Jays: Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley or Yordan Alvarez

LA Dodgers: Sanchez
Jays: Gavin Lux

Brewers: Smoak
Jays: Brice Turang

Twins: Giles
Jays: Brusdar Graterol & Nick Gordon

Just spit balling with these scenarios but there's so much value the Jays could get with trading these guys.
pubster - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#374263) #
Im hoping for a strong finish to the season from Jansen and Biggio in the Majors.

If the Jays can go into 2020 with Vladdy/Biggio/Jansen acclimated to MLB pitching and Bichette/Pearson on the horizon I think I'd take it.
krose - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#374265) #
Is there any position player on the current 25, other than Guerrero, who is likely a part of the Jays if they are going to be competitive in the next three years.
mathesond - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#374266) #
Danny Jansen? Randall Grichuk?
hypobole - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#374267) #
I'd say
Jansen.
Grichuk?
Rowdy?
grjas - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#374268) #
Yup. Throw in Jr and thatís half a lineup with more on the way.

So even before todayís game, in Jrís last 7 he had an ops of 1250. I think he has arrived
Magpie - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#374269) #
Is there any position player on the current 25, other than Guerrero, who is likely a part of the Jays if they are going to be competitive in the next three years.

Well, nobody knows anything.

So I'll refer you all to the 1981 team, which was possibly the most wretched Jays team of them all. They were in contention two years later, and the 1983 team actually included four guys starting at the same positions they held down in 1981 (Whitt, Garcia, Griffin, Moseby), two guys who spent the 1981 season sitting on the bench and playing badly when they did get into the lineup (Upshaw and Bell) and three starting pitchers held over from 1981 (Stieb, Clancy, Leal). I can assure you that no one thought, no one even dreamed, that the 1981 squad might be two years away from being good. They were two years away from being two years away. If they were lucky.

Nobody knows anything!
krose - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#374270) #
Good to hear the optimism on a day when the rookies do well.
mathesond - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#374271) #
Don't know why the Astros would trade Whitley for Stroman when they could just call up Whitley.
Magpie - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#374272) #
Here's another reason to be excited about the eventual arrival of Bichette and Biggio. One of the differences between the 1992-93 champs and the 2015-16 contenders was that the first group was thick with the offspring of major league players (Alomar, Stottlemyre, Sprague). Whereas it was pretty much Jason Grilli against the house with the second group. As always, the more, the merrier.
AWeb - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#374273) #
Guerrero takes over 2nd place for OPS on the team after today, up to .766 (passed Smoak).  Hit a pitch off the plate inside 450 feet, and not only kept it fair, kept it way fair.

Great to see Jansen punish the 2nd pitch for his homer after the first one was almost the same pitch in almost the same spot. That's something good hitters do, although of course he's got a way to go.
finch - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#374274) #
Because Whitley has been terrible in AAA thus far and can't be relied upon this year? Maybe that's a reason?
hypobole - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#374277) #
Brewers: Smoak
Jays: Brice Turang

I can't see getting a prospect of this quality for Smoak, but it did make me check out Aguilar for the 1st time this year. His season compared to last seems a lot like Teoscar's. BB% up, K % down, but a significant BABIP drop and ISO absolutely cratered.
scottt - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 06:53 PM EDT (#374278) #
The Jays signed Shoemaker and Galvis. Those were good pickups.
Sogard was not supposed to be on the roster. All those ABs should have gone to Travis.
Pompey was supposed to get Brito's ABs.

We haven't found out yet if Richard was a good pickup.
Buchholtz has been pretty underwhelming.
Phelps could be good.

Tellez is playable. Guerrero is coming around. McKinney can hit a bit but defense is not good.
At least he hustles. Jansen just had a great series.
I think it's safe to assume Biggio and Bichette will take some time to find themselves when they come up.

Thorton had another good start.
 

scottt - Sunday, May 19 2019 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#374279) #
They basically used their LOOGY to finish the game and Jansen made them pay.

Tellez looks like he has a good chance of figuring it out.
He can handle the breaking stuff pretty well. He's just late on fastballs and that's just a matter of knowing when to anticipate a fastball and start early.

Glevin - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 07:50 AM EDT (#374281) #
"Houston: Stroman
Jays: Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley or Yordan Alvarez"

Astros won't give up that for Stroman. If they would, Jays would have dealt him already.

"LA Dodgers: Sanchez
Jays: Gavin Lux"

You're not getting close to a top-100 prospect for Sanchez and Lux is closer to top-25. Sanchez has a WAR of 0.9 in the past 3 seasons. Would you give up Nate Pearson for someone like that? Jordan Groshans? Cavan Biggio?

"Brewers: Smoak
Jays: Brice Turang"

Brewers have Aguilar and Thames at 1B. 0 need for Smoak. Also, I don't think Smoak gets a real prospect. Too many 1Bmen out there. Maybe he gets a wild but intriguing A ball arm or a reliever or end of roster kind of guy.


I think more realistically you're looking at things like..

SD: Stroman
Tor: Weathers and Naylor

Hou: Sanchez
Tor: Myles Straw

Cle (I don't know who actually needs him): Smoak
Tor: Yu Chang

This would be pretty good value I think.
scottt - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#374282) #
The best sequence they had this year was a road trip in which they went 5-1 against the Twins and the A's. That last 3-3 road trip might have been their second best.

Thorton was the the best player on that trip going 1-0 and only 3 runs allowed in 11.2 innings. The opponents hit .146 against him. He gave up 3 hits, 6 walks and struck out 11. He also had 2 hits in 3 ABS.

Stroman was also pretty good in his start, so was Giles, Gaviglio, Hudson and the now DFAed Guerra.
Law was not good and Tepera keeps struggling. Sanchez has his usual finger issue. Feierabend might get another start because there are not a lot of options right now.

At the plate, Guerrero had 4 homers and an OPS of 1.321. Jansen broke out with 2 homers and had an OPS of 1.027 on the trip. Mckinney, Galvis  and Smoak also had a good trip. Sogard and Grichuk have cooled off. Drury is still not doing too much.

The next 7 games are at home against too good teams that are below .500. Boston and San Diego.



scottt - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#374283) #
Merryweather was throwing simulated games in April.
I think he's still in extended and should end up in Buffalo by the time short season play begins.

hypobole - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#374284) #
Trent Thornton talks curveball with Dave Laurila

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ryan-pressly-trent-thornton-and-justin-verlander-discuss-their-curveballs/

Got a chuckle from this:

ďI learned how high my spin rate is back when I was with the Astros. They sit you down with the data. They were like, ĎHey, man. You have one of the higher-spinning curveballs in all of baseball.í At first I didnít know if that meant good or bad."

uglyone - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#374285) #
Looks like vladdy is sitting out the holiday day game vs the red sox.

Not a bunch of marketing geniuses we have here.
hypobole - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#374286) #
Yeah, the FO totally screwed up the "marketing" aspect when they hired Montoyo.
James W - Monday, May 20 2019 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#374293) #
It's brilliant marketing - now if you want to see Guerrero play, you'll have to come back!
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