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This is now the Boss Thread, at least until I drop the Report Card. Like an anvil on my foot.


Four games Friday, four games Saturday, and however many are needed on Sunday to settle what needs to be settled.

The fun begins in Cleveland, shortly after high noon.

Tampa Bay at Cleveland

The Guardians won the season series 4-2, taking two of three in Tampa Bay at the end of July, and two of three in their home park in late September. It was a low scoring matchup (Cleveland scored 22 runs in the six games, Tampa Bay scored 18) and the last three games in Cleveland were all decided by a single run. Cleveland is hot and the Rays are not. Tampa Bay closed their season by losing 7 of 8; Cleveland won 24 of their last 30 games. But that doesn't matter now.

The NL gets underway next....

Philadelphia at St. Louis

One assumes that the Cardinals are everyone's sentimental choice - it's the last roll call for Yadier Molina and Albert (the Great) Pujols. These teams played 7 games in 11 days at the beginning of July, and Philadelphia won four of them. But that was still the first half of the season, and we all need to pause and gape in wonder at what Albert Pujols did in the second half of the year. He hit .323/.388/.715 with 18 HR and 48 RBI in 56 games. This actually happened. We might note that he did that to LH pitchers all year long (.351/.400/.746), but come on - the guy is 42 years old. The Cardinals needed it, too - Paul Goldschmidt, who seemed to be cruising to the MVP, and challenging for the Triple Crown, hit just .245 with 2 HRs in September.

Then comes the one we're especially interested in. (It will get its own Dedicated Thread shortly before Game Time!)

Seattle at Toronto

The Jays took two of three from the Mariners back in May, behind strong outings from Kikuchi and Berrios - but the Jays were floundering when they went to Seattle in early July. They'd just lost five of six to Tampa Bay and Oakland (!) - the Mariners swept a four game set and basically sealed Charlie Montoyo's fate. We might note that two of the pitchers taking the loss for Toronto in those games were Anthony Banda and Sergio Romo. Oh, it was a strange time.

And it all wraps up in the Big Apple

San Diego at New York

I think this is, on the face of it, easily the most lopsided matchup of the weekend. I think the Padres are lucky to still be playing, and the Mets are unlucky that they even have to play in this round. But San Diego took two of three games on both occasions when they met this season. Yu Darvish beat Tajuan Walker and Max Scherzer; Sean Manea and Blake Snell beat Chris Bassitt. Jacob de Grom did not pitch against the Padres during the regular season. He surely will this weekend.

Here's the thing - anything can happen. Two games out of three? Pittsburgh went into Dodger Stadium this season and swept three games, and Mitch White only started one of them. Miami went into Houston and took two out of three. Anything can happen. Fans will still measure the success of the season in large part on what happens this weekend and after, but on one random weekend....

So I wouldn't dream of trying to guess what's going to happen. The four teams with home field this weekend are all deserving of that singular advantage, and each should be regarded as the "favourite" but any best-of-three is an Invitation to Chaos. I think the real winners are the four teams that don't have to pass through this dreadful gauntlet. I think this system is providing a very real reward to the two best teams in each league, and I approve.


Wild Card Weekend | 86 comments | Create New Account
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John Northey - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#423320) #
While we wait for 4 PM ... Of note for the future - Jays TV ratings this year...


The US ratings are more confusing as they go by households so multiple by 2 to get a rough estimate of viewers.


As you can see the highest is the Yankees at 251K households, which would be roughly 502k viewers for an apples to apples comparison. So the Jays draw about 50% more viewers per game than any other team. Note: Houston and the Dodgers not listed as disputes in their areas have kept games from being seen everywhere (thus knocking their ratings all over the place). So basically, given good US teams get well over $100 million a year for TV rights, the Dodgers get $229 mil a year for the #1 slot, Angels are #2 at $138 mil with $100+ to the White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs as of 2020 the Jays should be worth more than that to Rogers. So basically any payroll size can be justified given the ratings they get. So this winter it is up to Rogers to decide if they want the Jays to shoot over $200 mil to add a star pitcher or something else to the team, or to sign Vlad/Bo long term.
John Northey - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#423321) #
The roster is out...


All 3 catchers, Espinal is there, no Zimmer or Gurriel. Berrios is there. 13 pitchers still. I'm a bit surprised as I expected Zimmer to play just for late inning defense as Berrios will probably just gather dust. Generally though I like it.
scottt - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#423322) #
Seen some grumbling about start time.

The 7s are Wild.

Tampa/Cleveland start at 12:07.
Phillies/Cards start at 2:07.
Our game starts at 4:07 which is 1:07 for Seattle.
Padres/Mets start at 8:07 which is 5:07 for the Padres.

At least it's a long week-end and many should have been able to take the day off in advance.

scottt - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#423323) #
I guess Bradley will play the late defender and there is no keeping Springer off the lineup.
Hopefully Gausman's finger is not an issue.

uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#423324) #
Tapia in the starting lineup for game 1 of the playoffs.

Of course.
Mike Green - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#423325) #
Jansen DHs and Merrifield at second base today, batting 8th and 9th. 
Glevin - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#423326) #
Tapia is 7/11 with 3 XBH and only 1K in his career against Castillo. He should be starting.
Glevin - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#423327) #
I wouldn't have gone Bradley over Zimmer though. Zimmer is much faster and a better defender so is a good PR. Bradley is a better hitter but neither should be starting so why keep Bradley?
Nigel - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#423328) #
Iím with you Glevin but itís been clear for a while now that management thinks that veteraness must have its day. No complaints on todayís lineup. In a neutral environment Iíd have Biggio at 2B but Merrifield has been scorching and Biggio has not, so playing the hot hand seems reasonable to me.
92-93 - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#423329) #
The Jays' late defensive moves always suggested they considered Zimmer to be the better CF over Bradley, but little happened on the field to suggest that was actually the case. And while Zimmer might be faster, it's not like he's an elite base stealer.

There was no way Biggio was going to start today's game. Schneider is rolling with the crew that earned the home-field advantage with their strong play down the stretch.
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#423330) #
Anyways, we're a much better team than them. Time to show it.

The only thing that could stop us is Manoah pulling a Price, but I think he's made of different stuff.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#423331) #
they considered Zimmer to be the better CF over Bradley

Actually, I always thought it was because while they were really a toss-up in CF, Bradley was the best RF on the team by a considerable degree.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#423332) #
Berrios will probably just gather dust.

Break glass in case of emergency, like a second inning line drive off Gausman's ankle. It won't be Casey Lawrence this time.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#423333) #
The only thing that could stop us is Manoah pulling a Price

Lots and lots of things can stop them - it's just one weekend - but the things that comes immediately to mind is Luis Castillo pulling a Kluber, or something like that. He's pretty good.
92-93 - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#423334) #
That's probably it, Magpie. JBJ did look great in RF on Wednesday.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#423335) #
Merrifield has been scorching and Biggio has not, so playing the hot hand seems reasonable to me.

Probably just as much staying away from the cold hand as playing the hot one. Biggio's hit .183/.283/.333 since the All-Star Break. He's been colder than my heart.
ISLAND BOY - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#423336) #
" Manoah pulling a Price."

I see a near zero chance of that happening. The only way the Mariners get to big Alek is early in the game because he is slow getting going sometimes. Unlike some pitchers, the bigger the game and the spotlight on him, the better he pitches. I just hope the Jays get him locked in to a long term contract in the next few years.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#423337) #

A cool graphic on how all the post-season teams were assembled. The ones with the most homegrown talent are Cleveland and... Houston?
StephenT - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#423338) #
Is ESPN constantly running its ticker at the bottom during playoff games?

I've seen it at the beginning of some innings of the Cleveland game today, and then Sportsnet covers it up with its own ticker.

Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing that Sportsnet is doing their own broadcast of the Jays game if it means no ticker on the screen all game.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#423339) #
Zwelling tweets that Gurriel would have only been able to pinch hit. Someone would have had to run for him.
John Northey - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#423340) #
Interesting to see how teams were built. Atlanta the most even at 8-9-9 between free agent-trade-home. Jays a bit trade heavy but not much compared to Tampa who lives on trades - kind of surprised how few home grown talents Tampa has, 2nd fewest of the playoff teams (SD the lowest). Extremes for free agents 2 Cleveland & Houston to 8 for NYY/Atlanta/SD, trades 9 for Atlanta/StL/NYM to 18 for Tampa. Homegrown 3 for SD to 14 for Cleveland/Houston. I think it is good that there isn't a clear 'this is how to build to win' dominating.

So who is everyone cheering on outside of the Jays in round 1? I'm cheering on Cleveland (over TB), St Louis (over Philly), SD (over the Mets). Ultimately I'd love a redo of the 1992 WS, although it is funny that a 1993 redo is also possible.
James W - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#423341) #
I'm cheering for Toronto. I hope the other series are three extra-inning games each.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#423342) #
I'm cheering on Cleveland (over TB), St Louis (over Philly), SD (over the Mets).

Sure. After 19 games scowling at and hissing the Rays, it's impossible to turn around on them. It would induce whiplash. And I don't want it to end for Pujols and Molina on one Lost Weekend.

Mets and Padres... can they both lose?
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#423343) #
While I like that MLB.com graphic, it's just counting heads. It doesn't tell you who matters. The Jays homegrown players, like Guerrero, Bichette, and Manoah mean a whole lot more than trade acquisitions, like Tapia and Pop.
scottt - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#423344) #
The teams with the better drafted players are those who tanked.
Houston still have Bregman who came up from their long tank.
Tampa has long parted with those types of players.
Cleveland?
Naylor 29th in 2018. McKenzie 42nd in 2015.
Sandlin 67 in 2018. Aaron Civale 92nd in 2016.
Shane Bieber 122nd in 2016. Sam Hentges 128th in 2014.
Seems like most of the home grown players are in secondary roles.

Houston, actually, is heavy on international free agents.
Is that luck? The fruit of high investment? Some way to game the system?
Or just having the better handler in the DR?
For what it's worth, they signed several relatively old pitchers.

Seattle has done the most tanking, but they've also done the most trading.

scottt - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#423345) #
Right, but it seems like the Jays prefer to trade their prospects rather than try their homegrown pitchers in the pen.
It took way to long to come up with 4-5 reliable guys at the front of the pen.

I am not going to complain about having Chapman rather than Smith or Espinal at 3B.

scottt - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#423346) #
Also, the teams that look most like the Jays are the Braves and the Yankees.

Glevin - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#423347) #
"Actually, I always thought it was because while they were really a toss-up in CF, Bradley was the best RF on the team by a considerable degree."

Probably is but defensive replacement at RF seems like a pretty weak reason to be on a playoff roster. Teoscar and Springer can both play RF and Merrifield can as well. Bradley has elite sprint speed so it's easier to see potential value in pinch running for Kirk or someone else late (Dalton Pompey sort of role). Hard to see Bradley having actual use. Jays up by a run or 2 in the 9th and he replaces Teoscar in RF? Pretty weak use for a roster spot IMO.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#423348) #
I don't expect to see much of any of the bench players - Moreno, Espinal, Biggio, Bradley - this weekend. Bradley might replace Springer late with a lead, but that's about all.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#423349) #
Cleveland and Tampa Bay are addressing the existential question: "What happens when two middle-of-the-pack offenses encounter elite pitching?"

Not much happens at all.
Chuck - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#423350) #
Interesting that 2 of the 8 game #1 starting pitchers were acquired via trade during the season, Castillo and Quintana. It's one thing to acquire a starter to bolster your rotation and quite another to make him your de facto ace.
Mike Green - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#423351) #
Both Cleveland and Tampa relied on a variety of approaches to score runs during the regular season. But with good pitching and defences in the post-season, it comes down to who had a runner on base for their homer.
John Northey - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#423352) #
A good point on the quality vs quantity argument - the same chart but with WAR (either version) would be interesting to see. On Post-Season roster: Jays drafted: Mayza-Manoah-Jansen-Biggio-Bo, Jays IFA: Vlad-Kirk-Moreno. That is a TON of value there. Trades: Tapia-Pop-Merrifield-Hernandez-Espinal-Chapman-Stripling-Richards-Cimber-Berrios-Bass. Free Agents: Springer-JBJ-Phelps-Kikuchi-Gausman-Garcia. Romano is an oddity - rule 5 returned (draft pick originally) so not sure what category he really belongs in.
StephenT - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#423353) #
The ABC broadcast of the St. Louis game has been constantly running the score crawl ticker at the bottom of the screen
(they have it off at the start of the inning, then turn it on at the first pitch).
How disrespectful to fans of the Cardinals, the Phillies, and baseball in general.

I've been liking the announcers for the St. Louis series (MKay and ARod) the best of the ones I've heard so far today
(for the Cleveland game I tried the ESPN TV and Rays radio announcers).
Leaside Cowboy - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#423354) #
I am awfully anxious.

I suspect the Seattle Mariners conspired with Microsoft and hacked into Batter's Box. †St. Louis did that to Houston a few years ago.
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#423355) #
My pregame is now watching the full Bat Flip 7th inning with no cuts or edits.
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#423356) #
currently watching skydome fans rain beercans down on the umps for that shitty batter interference non-call to give the rangers the lead in the top of the 7th.

what happens next?
StephenT - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#423357) #
They're introducing the players on the field now.
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#423359) #
Donaldson bloop ties it up!
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#423360) #
1-1 count on Joey bats
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#423361) #
BOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM

BOOOM BOOM bOOM

JOEY BATS CRUSHES IT

BAT FLIPPED, CROWD FLIPS OUT
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#423362) #
BENCHES CLEAR


Dyson wants to fight Edwin

Edwin just telling the crowd to stop throwing stuff!!
bpoz - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#423363) #
UO is in mid season form.
uglyone - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#423364) #
Best inning ever.

Best pregame ritual ever.


Now onto the real live thing.

Let's get this done, boys.
Magpie - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#423397) #
St.Louis fans leaving the park early, in the ninth inning of a playoff game.
James W - Friday, October 07 2022 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#423407) #
Doesn't sound like "Best Fans In Baseball" material, frankly.
bpoz - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#423430) #
From the other thread:

Best winning team is math correct but the unbalanced schedule taints that somehow.

Anyone can have a bad game or a great game. Manoah will get another chance one day. 3 runs in the 1st inning and only 1 run after that, but he struggled a bit in between. Scherzer has proven himself. Price finally put behind him the "poor playoff" stigma by out pitching Verlander in 2018.

I imagine every game will be analyzed in detail by fans and media in each home city.
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#423442) #
I continue to be fascinated by the weird skinniness of Triston McKenzie. It's as if a stick man put on a baseball uniform.

The Mets aren't getting cute after all. It won't be Tajuan Walker tonight. They need de Grom just to stay alive.
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#423449) #
Walls pinch hitting for Paredes - kind of like Valera pinch hitting for Kirk, isn't it? Announcing to the world that a bunt is coming.
John Northey - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:23 PM EDT (#423547) #
The St Louis/Philly game has one of those potentially legendary moments coming - Pujols up in the bottom of the 8th with a runner on, 2 outs, down by 2. Could be his last PA ever. Fingers crossed he does something exciting.
John Northey - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#423548) #
Single bringing up the go ahead run. Pinch runner in for him (just makes sense) and that might be the end for him.
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#423549) #
Goldschmidt and Arenado up next. Prove you're the MVP, someone.
John Northey - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#423550) #
Seems the Cards are determined to do the same as the Jays but in reverse - blow a lead late in game 1, then be shut out in game 2. 1 inning to change this for them.

Makes one wonder which is worse, how the Jays blew it, how the Cards are blowing it, or how the Rays just didn't score (1 run over 24 innings).
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#423551) #
The Padres bring the tying run to the plate? The Mets have already used Diaz?
John Northey - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#423552) #
Ex-Jay Dickerson gets a hit to keep the Cards hopes alive. Molina can either keep the season going or end it here.
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#423553) #
Molina not quite ready to retire. The Mets live another day.
John Northey - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#423554) #
Cardinals are done though. Glad Molina and Pujols ended with clutch hits to try to keep it going.
Magpie - Saturday, October 08 2022 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#423555) #
And the Cardinals are toast! Goldschmidt and Arenado went 0-8 with 5 Ks. They each came up three times with runners on base, and did nothing. The last time was in the eighth with two men aboard. And they both struck out.

In times of distress, I find it sometimes helps to savour the Pain of Others.
John Northey - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#423558) #
Has to hurt worse for St Louis - Pujols and Molina retiring and others getting older, Goldschmidt is 34 already so while the Jays are going to be stronger possibly the Cards might be near the end of a run. Not that they ever go far down in rebuilds but it does look like the end of a run for them (4 straight playoffs, 2 HOF'ers retiring).
85bluejay - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#423574) #
I never warmed up to this team and sadly they proved me correct - After his underwhelming off-season (and it's not about spending money), I think the Jays should move on from Ross Atkins, sadly the team will not.
dalimon5 - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#423587) #
I couldn't disagree more with you more.


Atkins shored up the bullpen. Its a collection of pitchers good enough to hold a 7 run lead. Schneider burned his 4 best relievers in the span of a few innings and asked his best reliever to do something he has never done before.

Atkins brought in elite defensive players to help close out games. Schneider never utilized Jackie Bradley Jr until it was too late. He should have been brought in to replace Tapia who is the inferior defensive player and also looked like he winded himself from an earlier play in the game.

Most of all, Atkins hedged his bets at the deadline and kept Tiedeman and Moreno. I am happy he did that because over the course of the next 12 months I am sure we will see the benefits of that approach even though the short term result of that approach was negative.
dalimon5 - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#423588) #
And by the way, name me a GM you would bring in to replace Atkins who has had more success. IF you look at the candidates it's basically guys with no GM experience.
uglyone - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#423607) #
Is Anthopolous available?
John Northey - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#423609) #
dalimon5 - I agree 100% - Atkins has done a good job. Could he have done better? Of course. But we all saw a half dozen plays that with a tiny bit of luck would've ensured a Jays win instead of a loss last night. The plays by Tapia in LF, that pop up to CF, not walking Santana when 1B was open (probably the dumbest non-move of the game imo), Bass not having it at all (credit to the manager pulling him as fast as possible), Jays scoring just 1 in the final 4 innings. Could go on I'm sure but those are some of the most obvious things. Dumb luck multiple times went against the Jays.

This winter we'll see some changes, but not wholesale ones. This team has 2 more years before I see an overhaul if they aren't getting deep into the playoffs (ala the famous 1990/91 offseason). Remember, other playoff flops are Max Scherzer, Pujols (2 for 8, both singles), Molina (1 for 8), Goldschmidt (0 for 7), the Rays had just 2 players with an OPS over 600 over their 2 pathetic games (1 run over 24 innings while allowing just 3 runs). Great teams and players sometimes have bad days and that happens. Yesterday was a gut punch but at least the Jays hitters made some effort vs the Rays who never showed up. The pen blew up real good but a tiny bit of luck and the Jays still win (Tapia catches one of 2 or 3 chances he had, Springer doesn't run into Bo's arm).

I mean the only thing Atkins could've done would've been to get a better 4th OF than Tapia (and yes, I agree that was a big error on his part which hopefully gets addressed in November - he should be on the phone to Arizona now setting up a deal to be made 10 minutes after trades are allowed again) and MAYBE more relievers (Garcia, Pop, Bass all were good ones to get who will be here next year, just bad luck Bass had his worst day yesterday). He should also be on the phone to Rogers pointing out the great TV viewing numbers and pushing for a big budget increase so they can chase down a top free agent starting pitcher (deGrom, Rodon, Verlander, Bassitt should be targeted for the rotation - get one of them and the depth is drastically improved with a 3 ace situation and Berrios down to #4) and/or outfielder (no way he gets enough to sign Judge, but Nimmo of the Mets would be nice). For trades we have a surplus at 2B and C right now that should be useful. Keep building up via the International Free Agents and try to sign the best coaches out there for the minors to build up the kids into more valuable pieces.
Magpie - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#423611) #
After his underwhelming off-season

What off-season?

As I've pointed out more than once, from the first of December through the middle of March, every GM was unable to even talk to players or agents or even each other without violating US labour law, and risking some fairly devastating punishments from Rob Manfred.
Magpie - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#423612) #
Is Anthopolous available?

No he's not. They were two wonderful months, but it was seven years ago and you need to move on.

But I want to give the boy GM his due. Many famous names switched teams at the deadline, and obviously none of them - not Soto, not Castillo, not Quintana - would have moved the needle anywhere near enough to get the Blue Jays to where they would have avoided having to play this past weekend. They were 11 games back. They weren't winning the division.

But there was one guy who changed teams at the deadline who really might have helped yesterday, greenfrog was beating the drum for him, and the Braves got him. Iglesias was just great for them, and they gave up nothing to get him. There were genuine reasons to be concerned about him at the time, and a big $$$ commitment going forward, but for two months it could not have worked out better.
Gerry - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#423614) #
I have said before that the Jays drafts under Atkins have been generally disappointing. This created a problem at the deadline where he had a few decent prospects and trading them for short term help would really leave the farm bare.

I don't think he has done a good job, he is an average guy doing an average job.
Magpie - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#423615) #
the Jays drafts under Atkins have been generally disappointing.

That's practically a franchise tradition, with the possible exception of the Gord Ash years.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#423617) #
Yup. Raisel Iglesias was the big relief pitcher I wanted at the deadline. Would've helped....
grjas - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#423625) #
Well Iíve been beating the drum all year about the bullpen. But Bass and Romero would be welcome additions to any bullpen Ötheyíve delivered as well as just about any relievers in the game. Yet somehow they managed to have their worst day of the year back to back. Nerves, adrenaline, fatigue, rust? Who knows. And a little earlier Mayza gave up a gopher ball to a guy that hit only 3 off LHíers all year.

Thatís why I have a really hard time looking at management or manager for this epic collapse. Three logical pitchers passed took the mound but for whatever reason they all melted down when we most needed them.
grjas - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#423626) #
Put another way, Bass and Romano together gave up almost as many runs (5) in under 2 innings as the two of them gave up together in the whole month of September (6). But somehow thatís the FOís fault.
uglyone - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#423627) #
Definitely not the FO's fault that their only significant deadline add choked away the playoffs.

Maybe they should have targeted something other than another iffy reliever.
Gerry - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#423635) #

That's practically a franchise tradition, with the possible exception of the Gord Ash years.

I quickly looked at the Jays drafts over the last ten years on B Ref. The best draftee since 2011 is Marcus Stroman. Bo Bichette and Alek Manoah will likely pass him out at some point.

But to get back to the draft, in ten years from 2011 to 2020 the Jays would expect to hit on half of their top picks. Stroman and Manoah are the only picks that lived up to their first round status. Two out of ten with a question mark over Jordan Groshans. Not good.

I then looked at all the players drafted and looked at who had delivered five WAR so far. In the five years before Atkins there were nine. Stroman, Jansen and Romano did it for the Jays. Joe Musgrove, Daniel Norris, Matt Boyd, Kendall Graveman and Anthony De Sclafani delivered most of their five plus WAR value for other teams, which raises other issues around player development and talent recognition.

In the five years of Atkins, which is somewhat incomplete, the answer is three, Bo, Manoah and Biggio. Groshans or Barger are the best bets to make it more than three.

So yes, the Jays drafts have been bad, and seemingly worse since Atkins took charge.

Magpie - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#423638) #
It's obviously much too soon to really begin judging the Atkins draft record, but one odd thing has struck me. His first early picks - Zeuch, Warmoth, Pearson - haven't worked out at all. What he's done since is draft them and then trade them away as soon as possible. Manoah is the only one he's kept, and maybe that was only because Big Alek got here so quick.
StephenT - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#423651) #
I just flipped on the SDP-NYM game in the bottom 8th and noticed that ESPN finally has dropped its score ticker.
John Northey - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#423654) #
Well, the home field sure didn't help in the wild card round - Mets lose in 3 (7 runs in their one win, 1 run total in their 2 losses - I see them signing Judge this winter). The Jays lose in 2. The Cardinals lose in 2. Only Cleveland won at home (in 2) thanks to the Rays bats still being in Tampa (1 run over 24 innings is pathetic).
soupman - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#423655) #
the current FO inherited a world-beating team with the reigning MVP, and were it not for Ohtani doing precedent setting feats every other day, a future MVP.

AA inherited a 75 win team and a mandate to trade their best player. since the entire league knew that, he had little leverage, but none of the proposed deals would have likely mattered all that much in the long run. He also inherited an organization that at one point stopped scouting high school players entirely, and which (shockingly) had one of the smallest scouting departments in the league.

AA deserves more respect than he gets. Off the top of my head: for repairing the franchise and setting up the current roster (both in terms of directly signing Vlad, as well as hiring the scouts that led to the selection of Bichette and others); we might also add hiring Pete (pitching whisperer) Walker's hiring among many other positive personnel decisions; so, I firmly disagree that AA's importance to this club can be reduced to "two wonderful months". It was a team that nobody watched on tv playing in a cavern when AA took over, and it was a packed house with more eyeballs than even now on the screen when he left. It's no surprise to me that he has a ring and Shapiro does not despite having been at it twice as long.
lexomatic - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#423656) #
Glad that one NY team is gone, with a nice embarassing 1 hit blowout.
Padres without Tatis move on.
John Northey - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#423658) #
Padres with replacement SS - amazing on defense Ha-Seong Kim who should've been a Jay. He wanted to sign here but the team wouldn't guarantee him a roster slot in the majors so he went to SD. Wonder if they might have put him at 2B and left him there or something. Ah well. Yet another 'what if'.
Magpie - Sunday, October 09 2022 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#423660) #
I firmly disagree that AA's importance to this club can be reduced to "two wonderful months".

I wouldn't say that either, and he accomplished things here that needed to be done after the previous regime. Nevertheless, the experience of being a Blue Jays fan and actually living through the Anthopoulos Years was to endure more than five years of pretty dreary mediocrity, ending with two utterly wonderful months. Unfortunately, the team that provided them was much too old by then to ever do it again.

It was still better than the Ricciardi Years.
Magpie - Monday, October 10 2022 @ 04:40 AM EDT (#423664) #
AA inherited a 75 win team and a mandate to trade their best player

He did inherit a few useful items. His one memorable team here (2015) received considerably more value from players inherited from the Ricciardi Era than this year's team (or last year's) received from the previous regime. All due respect to Guerrero, Jansen, and Mayza, but they obviously don't match Bautista, Encarnacion, and Cecil.
bpoz - Monday, October 10 2022 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#423666) #
No baseball today!!So Jays talk.

So most seem to agree that AA was good here and Shapiro/Atkins also good here so far. They both have their fans.

I am interested in opinions on "some" trades made by AA and all "significant" trades made by Atkins.

AA: I don't really want to talk about the Halliday or Marlins trade. Other Bauxites can talk about them if they want. They were block busters.

AA: The Morrow trade received a lot of positive comments on Da Box but did not work out "great". Trading B League did not hurt much either. Donaldson was wow!! The 2015 trade deadline was wow also but "selling the farm" was mentioned and Shapiro did not like the deadline deals. Why did Shapiro not like the deadline deals? Selling the farm OR getting stuck with big contracts. I don't really know which.

Atkins: You pick!!

I don't mind the Morrow trade. My off season trade is Jansen to St Louis for 1-3 prospects or at least 1 prospect and a decent reliever. St Louis has to replace Y Molina IMO. I really want RHP Tink Hence.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, October 10 2022 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#423668) #
Anyone else thinking it might be time to move Bo off SS?
bpoz - Monday, October 10 2022 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#423676) #
6 year deal for Spencer Strider in Atlanta.
Gerry - Monday, October 10 2022 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#423677) #
Bo had several throwing issues this year but shortstops tend to get better as they age. So unless they sign one of the big free agents I don't think so.

They also have three possible second basemen, do we need a fourth?

I think getting the OF right is a bigger priority for hitting/defence.
Kasi - Tuesday, October 11 2022 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#423706) #
I just want to get a decent young LH CF in there to spell Springer. Doesnít matter if he hits a 75 WRC just want good defence out of it. Then put Teoscar and Springer at the corners. Should also open up the DH spot. Iím not expecting a lot of churn on the offensive end unless they are trading Teoscar in order to free up salary.
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