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This could have been posted as a comment in the "other" thread, but today old Rich is back to his kinder, gentler personality. That's because he's addressing (IMO, rationally and correctly) the more general topic of MLB putting the screws to agents and their clients, free agent players.

There's information about "35 to 40" more players expected to glut the bear market on Friday when they are "non-tendered," and there's even (contradicting the columnist's usual stance) a Billy Beane quote suggesting J.P. should have been named Executive of the Year. Hints, presumably from the same sources, about John-Ford Griffin and Toe-Knee-Arm-Ass coming to Toronto. But you know R.G. will drink the vile potion again at any moment, and resume his monstrous, Jay-bashing rampage.
Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Griffin | 15 comments | Create New Account
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_Jordan - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:02 PM EST (#100904) #
It's a trap!

Sorry, sorry -- I don't want to encourage this kind of nonsense here at BB -- but it was too good to pass up in this situation. Mea culpa, Craig.

I'm starting to wonder if it's Non-Tender Day, rather than Rule 5 Day, which is holding up further JP dealings and the long-speculated arrival of John-Ford Griffin. After Friday, the playing field finally becomes clear for both Ricciardi and Beane, clarifying what they do and don't have to choose from on the open market and revealing other potential trading partners' roster decisions. This may remove the last obstacles to deciding what are the best deals and acting on them. We may have a busy weekend to look forward to.

I'm not sure what to make of the Expos situation. It's been floated that Minaya is under orders to drag out trade talks until Non-Tender Day in order to apply more pressure to the agents, a chillingly realistic possibility. But even if not, it would appear the only Expo the Blue Jays are reasonably likely to acquire is Armas II; I think Javier Vazquez comes with Fernando Tatis tied to his leg, and the Jays want no part of that. I'm not a huge Armas fan, but if JP is, then I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for awhile yet. It's all a muddle now, but I think that before New Year's, we'll see the Blue Jays roster picture clear up considerably.

And credit where it's due: Griffin's column wasn't bad at all, and if I knock him for the howlers, I'll also acknowledge him for the ones with some insight. But yeah, it's only a matter of time before he goes loopy on us again.
Coach - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:08 PM EST (#100905) #
I think Javier Vazquez comes with Fernando Tatis tied to his leg, and the Jays want no part of that

Must... resist... Piazza... joke...
Craig B - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:28 PM EST (#100906) #
Well, I have to say I am having a hard time staying away from Primer, but I'm keeping to my word - I am not going back there until the noise has died down.
Dave Till - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:41 PM EST (#100907) #
The noise never dies down on public forums, I fear - once the howling mobs take over an Internet space, it's too late.

A few years back, a bunch of us used to post Blue Jays related things to the Usenet newsgroup. But, about two years ago, some blithering idiots from another newsgroup started crossposting there, and eventually the newsgroup descended into flame wars and homophobic insults. I go back there every now and again to visit, but it still seems to be in bad shape.

If this forum starts to become overwhelmed by a plague of Ackbars, we could always move to the Blue Jays mailing list. It's pretty quiet now - just about moribund, in fact - but it's been in continuous existence since at least 1992, and the few people who are left there seem reasonable. Mail me off list (see header) if you're interested.
_Kent - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:43 PM EST (#100908) #
Jordan, we are all square on straight lines. Agreed that Vazquez (or Colon) and Tatis are likely a package, and that's why other clubs have backed off. Vladimir the Great as bait, followed by the switch to an unpalatable alternative, drove away customers.

There are several other Expos who could be dealt to save money -- Cabrera, Barrett, and Armas -- but I liked Tony Jr. a lot more last winter than I do today, and I would be disappointed, unless he arrives without great expense or commitment.

My views on John-Ford Griffin are much rosier than yours, and I know he has experienced a couple of speed bumps as a pro. But I'm partial to college players, especially from the ACC, and don't care where a guy puts up this line, I'm interested:

(2001) 65 251 79 113 30 0 19 75 50 23 11 .450

At J.D Drew's school, JFG was easily the best player ever. He set an FSU record with a .436 AVG as a freshman, but how was he in the clutch against the best of the much older college talent? Well, he was the only Seminole named to the ACC All-Tournament team, hitting .583 (7-for-12.)

In 2000, still just a sophomore, Griffin hit "only" .403, ranked third nationally with 33 doubles, three short of the all-time NCAA mark, had a career-long hitting streak of 23 games, and was MVP of his NCAA Regional after going 13-for-25 (.520) with 6 doubles, 2 HR, 8 R and 8 RBI.

What kind of person is he? John Olerud is his favourite player! We want this young man, who could rejoin his fellow 2001 All-ACC mates Russ Adams and Dave Bush in Toronto about 2005 and stick around for a pennant or two.
_Sean - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:44 PM EST (#100909) #
Well, I'm an hour away from an articling interview, so wish me luck.

Brief hijack: reports are circulating that Jeff Kent has signed a 2-year deal with an option with Houston at (arguably) below market value, and will shift to 3B.
Coach - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 12:54 PM EST (#100910) #
Good to see you have your priorities straight, Sean, and break a leg, or whatever lawyers say. Thanks for the JK heads-up.
_Jordan - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 01:01 PM EST (#100911) #
Sean, knock 'em dead! Be confident and show an interest in what interests you about the firm. Interviewers at these firms love it when the prospect has taken the time to read up on the firm and what its practice strengths are. Show an interest in them and they'll show an interest in you. Good luck!
Coach - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 01:09 PM EST (#100912) #
This is also on the ESPN wire. Kent to Houston -- he should play 3B, as Craig B is better at second, and the pressure is enormous on old One-M to win, NOW.
Dave Till - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 01:28 PM EST (#100913) #
When the pressure is on One-M to win, his track record isn't especially good.

A rumour I've heard (I hope it's not from Richard Griffin) is Cruz to the A's for Griffin (John-Ford, that is).

And good luck, Sean!
Coach - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 01:53 PM EST (#100914) #
If this forum starts to become overwhelmed by a plague of Ackbars, we could always move to the Blue Jays mailing list.

The first line of defence is blocking IP addresses, and presumably there are ways to make BB "members only" if it ever comes to that. But the mailing list is still interesting; thanks.
_Sean - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 02:40 PM EST (#100915) #
Thanks for the encouragement, everyone! I've just returned from what I thought was a pleasant and effective meeting. I managed to hit all the high points during the conversation--including Jordan's good advice--and it turned out they were very impressed by one of my references. So that was a good sign. :) Also, I showed some prescient iniative in expressing my desire to practice some environmental law, which is an area of practice they've just begun to develop.

When I get the final word on how it went, I'll share the good or bad news.

On the Kent signing, I think it's fair to say that Houston and San Fran will boast two of the best infields in the NL. I'd have to favour the Giants quartet of Alfonzo-Aurilia-Durham-Snow, as I think the offense from Alfonzo and Aurilia will grow significantly from their performances last year, and Durham should be an ideal leadoff hitter to increase Bonds' ABs with men on base. There is no discounting the vast gulf between Snow and Bagwell, however.
Craig B - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 02:51 PM EST (#100916) #
Excellent, Sean. Best of luck...
_TLR - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 02:56 PM EST (#100917) #
How about Rolen, Renteria, Vina and -- oh, never mind.
_Geoff North - Thursday, December 19 2002 @ 01:31 AM EST (#100918) #
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's become sickened by the rising noise level over at baseballprimer. I get enough Admiral Akbar at, and at least there, it's done in a self concious cliche sort of way - and it's not always the first post in a new thread. Seems to me that it wasn't that long ago that almost every post at primer was high quality discussion, with the occasionally funny knickname post - heck, some of those posts were actually insightful sometimes too.

The sad truth is that most public access forums quickly degenerate into mindlessness - seems like the issues at primer began shortly after they received some widespread media attention - someone's top 100 websites list or somesuch. It's steadily grown since.

One forum I lurk at regularily is the forum. Even if you don't want or like Miata's, there's a lot of info there, and what appear to be honest, friendly people. Their secret? I believe it's the moderators - they have a panel of concientious, diligent moderators who move threads/shut them down/discipline members as required, which is not too much. They also have forum member registration, which I'm sure is helpful. If you were actually interested in contributing to the community and had a terrible sense of humour, you'd probably end up loosing all credibility by oh, the first time you mentioned how Akbar would call it a trap.

Has there been any research done into the aggressive, juvenile behavior that's encountered so often on the web? Is it the anonymity? That appears to be a big part of it. Or are there just a lot of aggressive, juvenile people out there? Or both?
Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Griffin | 15 comments | Create New Account
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