This is pathetic.

Pay per view? On a Sunday afternoon? With Roy Halladay on the mound? You've got to be kidding me.

I can understand mid-week games that are possibly up against the Leafs or the Habs, but who do they believe they can't compete against today for ratings? A meaningless world championships hockey game against Austria? Horse Racing on the Score? Mrs. Winterbourne on City-TV???

Talk about alienating your fan base. For starters, I don't even have an overpriced digital cable package. And even if I did, there's no way I'd be forking over even more money to watch a single game.

And how many casual fans, sitting at home on a rainy sunday afternoon, would have tuned in?

If Sky Dome attendance is any indicator I can't see PPV earning more than a few sheckels. It perhaps does say something about the incedious nature of a cable television p@$p.

To be honest, I don't really have a poblem with PPV. I suppose it depends on whether or not this game would have been on TV otherwise. I know for hockey, they just take the games that weren't picked up by cable, and place them on PPV, and that's fine really.

I probably would order it, but it does not appear to be available for those of us living way out in BC. Oh well, MLB.com Gameday for me I guess.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
We're bemoaning the no-TV coverage right here.

And while I do have a digital system, I went with StarChoice, because frankly Rogers Digital Cable looks like garbage on a large TV.

Which means that I don't think we can even buy the game on PPV.

My question is: Why not? Are they trying to skew the PPV numbers to make it out to be a financial failure? Or are non-Rogers customers being penalized for their pickiness about image quality?

(And Jacko, in terms of "overpriced", StarChoice is comparitively cheap, especially if you're like us and don't want the majority of channels that show up in packages.)

How much is the PPV?

I have the same problem with Bell ExpressVu. The Jays are on the Viewers Choice PPV, but Bell uses their own PPV service.

The Jays should start their own digital channel like the Raptors and broadcast their non-televised games there. The Raptors channel comes as part of my sports package and doesn't cost me very much per month.

Radio for me.

I finally figured out what my at-bat music would be, if I had any. Really, it was the only possible choice:

The Band - 'I Shall Be Released'

I bought ($6, channel 319 on Rogers Digital Cable here in Ottawa). Jim Hunter and Jim Palmer are the announcers. I might only be able to watch the first hour or so before going out, but I hope to watch the rest off tape later.

Some of the Sportsnet channels (though not Sportsnet Ontario) are carrying the ESPN Sunday Night game at 8pm. A couple weeks ago, I noticed Sportsnet HD picked up the ESPN HD broadcast from San Diego (looked great).

Not being on TV is giving me a chance to check out GameDay (thanks to Ryan Lind above). Wow, I'm impressed. I've been wasting my time with Yahoo GameChannel up to now.

Clark safe at first on shortstop Tejadaīs fielding error.

Catalanotto singled to left center, Clark to second.

Wells reached on fielderīs choice to shortstop, Clark to third, Catalanotto out at second.

1st and 3rd, 1 out, Delgado up.

It's fun when the other team is making all the mistakes.

It's fun when the other team is making all the mistakes.

It's even more fun to double post.

Error to Moffatt on the double post

Error to Moffatt on the double post

I guess for the rest of the inning, my posts will be unearned. ;)

An early-inning lead! Whoa!

Three errors in the first ... is there a red moon over Baltimore?

The Jays should start their own digital channel like the Raptors and broadcast their non-televised games there. The Raptors channel comes as part of my sports package and doesn't cost me very much per month.


Now you're talking. If that channel ever came out (with all the missing games included in the monthly price) I'd gladly get a dish or digital cable and subscribe.

Aaron, why does Rogers Digital look like crap on your big TV? Is satellite known to have higher resolution that digital cable?

One last question for everyone -- is it possible for canadians to order up U.S. MSN service? MLB.tv is included in the service, and you can get the first three months free (USD $9.95/month thereafter).
I've noticed in the fine print that they need to ship you a CD, so the canadian mailing address might prove to be a dealbreaker (and I don't think the same offer with MLB.tv is available in canada).

I have Roy Halladay and Sidney Ponson on my Fantasy team...

I suppose the best case scenario for me would be if Halladay and the Jays win, but none of the runs against Ponson are earned. Looking good so far.

And, as I type this I see that the O's have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. Wonderful.

I suppose the best case scenario for me would be if Halladay and the Jays win, but none of the runs against Ponson are earned. Looking good so far.

I'm in the same boat, minus Roy. GO JAYS! (but go easy on Sidney)

I dont get these Baltimore fans. They pack the place for Pat Hentgen last night, now they have Sir Sidney vs Doc and the attendance is visibly less??

PS. Vernon brings 'em home. Atta boy. GO JAYS!

2 innings, and twice Jays have not delivered a runner from third with less than two outs. Is it just me or is this happening a lot this year?

Luckily for the Jays they've managed to get some runs with two outs, but why make it more difficult than it needs to be.

Carlos is definitely heating up

That's what we want to see (or in this case hear) from the 3 and 4 hitters :-)

That's what we want to see (or in this case hear) from the 3 and 4 hitters :-)

Particularly if you have Wells in the BBFL :)

5-1

Go Jays!

Well, so much for going easy on Sidney. Oh well, Go Jays!

Carlos is now 10 for his last 20.

Why has Howie Clark never been given an extended chance as a backup? All he has ever done in the bigs is hit like crazy. No power, obviously, but shouldn't he be allowed to stick around until he stops hitting for once?

I have Wells on a fantasy team this year as well, Moffat. I coveted him down in Barfield, but missed the boat (by a single round if I remember correctly).

yehaw.... Doc's got some great velocity tonight (today).

I have Wells on a fantasy team this year as well, Moffat. I coveted him down in Barfield, but missed the boat (by a single round if I remember correctly).

He was one of my keepers from last year. I traded 6 players at the deadline just to get him (my white flag deal). Most notable were Melvin Mora and Steve Finley. Six good, but not superstar players for Vernon Wells. It's not a deal I regret making.

Checking the Jays main page, Hinske apparently has zero errors this year. Is this accurate? By contrast, Melvin Mora just committed his 8th error or the season in the 1st.

Interestingly, Woodword only has 1 error, while Tejada has 4, including one today.

Doc's got some great velocity tonight (today).

Jobu, what's he hitting on the radar today?

One thing about Vernon though. He's swung at every pitch so far today. Yesterday, he seemed to be doing the same thing. I don't expect him to walk much, just because he hits the ball too hard and consistently, but I hope this is just a bad patch, and he starts laying off some bad pitches soon.

Looks like I was smart enough to sit Ponson in Barfield today.

Fozzy: one of the radio chaps (i forget which) said he was clocked at 95

No Billy Wagner, but not to shabby.

D'oh! A Raffy double drives in a run. It could have been worse, though, the ball hit the top of the wall and almostw ent for 2 runs instead of just one

I have Raffy on my Leftovers team, and I'm just behind Rob in SLG pct. Talk about mixed emotions on the double/almost homer.

Wow, when did woody officialy decide to be awesome? Nice triple, now lets bring him home jays!

A triple, Dudek, a triple!

Wow, Gameday says that Doc has thrown 62 pitches already. That can't be good. :

Lead off triple for Woodward, if they don't cash him in ...

Consider him cashed, Ryan...

Woody and the Cat: Toronto's deadly one-two punch. Never saw it comming but im loving it. 6-2 jays :>

http://me.woot.net
Here's another question for the digital cable afficionados: this game is not available on MLB extra innings for those in the GTA (including Kitchener/Waterloo), is it?

You can get the Fan 590 broadcast on the unused Extra Inning channels.

fyi: The PPV broadcast has been blocking the commercials with a "We'll be right back..." screen. (For the Tigers PPV broadcast, they included the commercials.) I'd actually feel more comfortable if they included the commercials (I don't trust them to not come back late).

Joe: no its not.

Does anyone know if the Jays still have that reward thing this year. The one where you scan your tickets or something and they build up to give you points for free stuff. I have my starpass now, figure i could rake in some sweet points but i can not find any info on it.

Is it just me, or does Delgado run himself out of more innings than the rest of the Jays combined?

he ain't there for his wheels... thats for sure...

HIJACK
Anyone follow the nfl draft yesterday??? Any teams have a draft day that excited u?

Mike, I was just about to post the same thing. I'll cut him some slack due to his knees, but he's not a particularly smart baserunner.

Brian Butterfield may share some of the blame for this play, though.

Checking the Jays main page, Hinske apparently has zero errors this year.

That's correct. Hinske's had a couple dug out by Delgado, but that's par for the course for any third baseman. Frankly, he's been a far better defender this year than Woody has. In fact, all in all other than Woodward I don't think infield defence has been all that bad this year. The OF is another story...

I said it before, I'll say it again: When did Woody decide to become awesome? GO CYCLE!

Ponson with a four pitch walk, then Vernon comes up and swings at the first pitch. Heh. He got a hit though, so I'm not criticising. Bases juiced for Carlos.

ooooooh bases loaded for the red hot carlos!!! I wonder if they'll intentionally walk him to get to phelps??? :)

I have to say, I am very impressed with the changes MLB have made to their GameDay feature. It is much better than last year, and I've compared all the Watch-By-Internet update features now, and MLB has definitely overtaken CBS and Yahoo! for the best overall.

Dammit. I should be LOVING this game and instead I'm pissy for not sitting Ponson. Fantasy sports are the death of me.

Moffat - do you have email access today? I just mailed you for fantasy advice. I'm in a bind over a trade offer.

http://me.woot.net
I guess the "not available on extra innings" thing applies to all Jays games. Stupid freaking blackout.

I maintain that Hinske has within him an above-average defensive third baseman. He's got great range, getting to a lot of balls that other third basemen (Derek Jeter, I'm looking at you) wouldn't get to; it's the double-pump that keeps him from greatness. I've noticed in the past two games that he still double pumps, but does it very quickly: tap-tap throw, and the runner is out.

2 run double for Big Carlos! I loves it!

ESPN gamecast is a bit behind...anyone else having this problem?

Delgado doubles, IBB to Phelps, and Cash comes up for a big at-bat, bases loaded, one out.

Is it just me, or does Delgado run himself out of more innings than the rest of the Jays combined?

Heh, OK, so maybe GameDay's not so good. Hinske's up , of course, not Cash...

http://me.woot.net
Gee, is there a temporal echo in here? I thought Delgado already ran into the third out of an inning.

Moffatt, I'm sure its just your imagination;)

rahaglfijhb

Delgado with a nice two run double, but then makes another out on the basepaths.

wait a second... I think I missed something. What happened in the Cash at bat?

Delgado's knees can't be blamed for that one.

ok so let me get this straight.. VW beats out a play at the plate off of the SF... and in this time carlos can't make it from 2nd to third???

Last inning for Halladay? He'll be just above 100 after this inning.

Halladay's pitch count is getting up there. Tosca said on the pregame that since this would normally be Justin Miller's turn to start in Syracuse, he would be available for an inning if necessary. It also sounded like Nakamura would be available despite pitching four innings on Thursday.

Time to talk to Carlos and tell him he runs like Edgar Martinez, not Manny Martinez. Geez.

I think Halladay will pitch one more inning. Who's rested in the pen? Kershner?

Woody's up third in the inning - shall we work the odds on a homer for the cycle?

I figure one chance in 15 (he's obviously pumped this game). Since I own him in a fantasy pool (sentimental keeper from two years ago), I'm all for it ...

Kershner should be available, and Frasor could probably go an inning.

Let's hope the Jays score 9 more here- total destruction to start the win streak, Doc can sit down early and they can test Nakamura/Miller.

OT: John Wasdin has lasted 4 innings in his start so far...I think that's as many innings as he pitched in three appearances (two starts) with the Jays last year. :

No cycle now...

Woodward - a HR away from the cycle

I would like to see Halladay's pitch counts limited (say, to 110 pitches or so) in games like this one. He may be a horse, but the Jays have to keep him healthy for at least the next 4 years. There isn't much point in running him out there in a 9-3 game, especially with a good pen.

Remember what happened to Dave Stieb (Stieb did have an arm-wrenching slider, to be fair)...

I would like to see Halladay's pitch counts limited (say, to 110 pitches or so) in games like this one.

It might just be my lousy memory, but I can't remember the last time Halladay went over 105 pitches in a game that wasn't particularly close. So I don't think you need to worry too much.

A walk!
A walk for Vernon Wells!

Woohoo, a walk for Vernon. Do you think he's logging in to DaBox between innings?

Does anyone else suspect a slight anti-blue jay agenda at MLB.com? I've notice the last few times when the jays are facing someone's ace they hype it in the main window, then (in the very rare times this season) they break out a nice lead it suddenly is replaced with another game (like today's Ponson vehicle) and deemed not newsworthy?

Or maybe I'm just watching Dale on King of the Hill to closely for my own good.

I've notice the last few times when the jays are facing someone's ace they hype it in the main window, then (in the very rare times this season) they break out a nice lead it suddenly is replaced with another game (like today's Ponson vehicle) and deemed not newsworthy?

Probably just business sense. Unfortunately the Jays are one of the least popular teams in MLB. Which is why it's important for us to keep the faith. ;)

RBI knock for Joshua!

"Delgado stops at 2nd..."

Thank God! ;)

Hey Moffatt, Delgado's on second with two outs ... What happens next?

Dare we think ... another kick at the can for Woody?

Ouch, are they really that unpopular? I always had blind faith they were seen with polite indiffernce, not active discrimination.

Damn conspiracies.

Hinske with an RBI double

Hey Moffatt, Delgado's on second with two outs ... What happens next?

Only good things come in threes. ;)

Well done, Mr. Lind ;-)

Am I the only one here who likes their "smilies" with a nose?

RBI Double for Hinske! Maybe I'll have to go rescind those trades I've offered where I give him up...

Ouch, are they really that unpopular? I always had blind faith they were seen with polite indiffernce, not active discrimination.

I should have been more specific:

I didn't mean unpopular in the "I hate the Leafs!" sort of way. I meant in the "playing in front of an empty stadium" sort of way.

Oh - and one out away from another lovely sweep of the Yankees (2-0 in the bottom of the ninth). Bad news is that it's Boston again, but ANYBODY rather than the Yankees ....

Bases loaded, Woodward up
Grand Slam cycle, anyone?

Woody with the sacks juiced - oh me, oh my!

You have a point, Moffatt. I just checked Halladay's pitch counts for 2004 (courtesy ESPN.com): 107, 107, 110, 111. So it looks as though Tosca/JP are being conservative with their ace.

HLH's pitch counts in 2003 seem remarkably low for someone who threw 266 innings. He started 36 games and threw 3630 pitches, or 100.8 pitches per start.

I don't give my smilies noses because they don't need noses. :P

Woodward up with the bases loaded. Last chance for the cycle.

Red Sox finish the sweep of the Yanks, 2-0.

Wells is having a really good day. Perhaps his slumping is ending now as well.

Seems like a good time to put in Nakamura up at least 8 runs.

Here comes Woody for the cycle attempt!

*Chants* Woo-dy, Woo-dy, Woo-dy!

Save some for tomorrow, boys!

Aww - Just a double

Awwww ... only a two-run double. Whatta rip.

Not a cycle, but a pretty damn good day anyway! :-D

Moffat: Oh, so we're just the Nashville Predators of the leauge then?

Woody rules!

*Cough - Moffat, check your email, I need fantasy advice - cough*

I'm starting to hope that the Jays might win this game.

Preds made the playoffs and had much higher attendance this year. Now, we're the Columbus Blue Jackets :)

HLH's pitch counts in 2003 seem remarkably low for someone who threw 266 innings. He started 36 games and threw 3630 pitches, or 100.8 pitches per start.

This is because HLH is the master of the 0-1 groundball. He has less than 14 pitches per inning, easily leading the AL. If you don't walk anyone and get a lot of quick outs (and don't give up too many hits... it's a lot easier to go 0-1, 0-2 with no one on base) you'll be able to go 8-9 innings with 110 pitches.

"Hudson socres! Woodward scores! The rout is on!"

Go jerry! And, Moffat , he echoes your "save some for tomorrow" sentiments!

Wow. Johnson drives in two more.

Why isn't this on TV? :(

Everyone has a hit except for Cash

Moffat: Oh, so we're just the Nashville Predators of the leauge then?

Well, maybe not *that* bad.

Last year the Jays were 23rd out of 30 teams in attendance, despite having relatively cheap tickets and all kinds of promotions. Some of that can be blamed on SARS, but it doesn't look like it's getting any better this year.

Of course, if they keep beating teams 15-3, that'll change pretty quickly.

Ouch... the blue jackets?

Since the majority of us are also hockey fans, i think we should do a poll and try to determine which NHL team we're the MLB equivalent of. Especialy during a delicious blow out like this :)

Yeah thats right, you leave the stadium baltimore fans.

So did DeJean get sick of Cat working him to death in a 15-3 game and just plunk him? :) Keep doing it, boys, we want this one to *hurt* these mofos.

I think the Blue Jays are the Calgary Flames of MLB.

*Cough - Moffat, check your email, I need fantasy advice - cough*

Haven't gotten it yet. Mind you, I still haven't responded to the last one you sent me! :)

Jays = Good team with somewhat indifferent fans after winning a championship or two.

Dallas Stars maybe?

I think the Blue Jays are the Calgary Flames of MLB.

Iginla + Kiprusoff = Delgado + Halladay

Yeah, I can see it.

Now Calgary is an comparison i could enjoy :)

One big player (Igilna and Carlos) surround by solid players, and a stalwort goalie (Kipper and Doc).

Now if only we could sell out home games and make the playoffs like them.

If only we could work in the indifferent fan base like Moffat said.

I decided not to vosit my girlfriend in Baltimore this weekend (einsturzende neubauten here in nyc)- if I had I would've been there to see the hammer drop on the O's. One thing you have to give their fans credit for though is their enthusiasm- despite the franchise being utterly hopeless for the last few years, everyone at the stadium is into the game...and they laighed at me when I cheered for the Jays last year...

Maybe the Hurricanes or the Panthers....

Maybe the best thing Chris Gomez did by hitting that HR of Curt Schilling was scare Woody into playing better lest he lose his job to Gomez.

Kiprusoff is no Halladay.

Delgado is no Iginla

Kiprusoff '04 is like Pedro '03. Doesn't play as much as a horse like Halladay (or Brodeur) but has much better rate stats.

I love Jason Frasor, by the way :-)

frasor great pick-up.

the tide is turned. watch out for the jays

The panthers work with the indiffernt fans and the Luongo/Doc comparision. Of course that leaves Delgado and Jokinen... i'd have to give Carlos a little more credit than that. And of course there's no Vernon. Who would have thought this would be so tricky.

Man I love having such a blowout for the Jays we can talk about stuff like this :) 17 hits on the day.

I love Iginla. He is the only player in the NHL who still uses the hockey equivalent of the home run (IMO). It was popular up until, and including , the power forward boom of the early-mid 90s (Stevens, LeClair, Neely, Tkachuck...). It's the one reason I'm truly in favor of lessening the width of goalie's pads and *might* even consider widening the net by an inch or two. When the power forward comes booming down the wing and drives a slapshot past (or through) the goaltender from above the dot it's a thing of beauty. Big Nik Antropov seems to be tyring his best to bring that play back, he just so happens to suck ;-)

Kiprusoff has had a half of a good year (not even,) and from what I saw in the first round of the playoffs (every game,) is the epitome of an above average goalie who benefits from playing in front of a great defensive system that keeps a vast majority of shots to the perimeter.

Love Iginla though.

hockey equivalent of the home run

oh, how i do love these hockey/baseball analogies :)

I love Luis Lopez sightings...

15 runs. No homers. That's pretty good.

The Blue Jays have a .750 winning percentage in their last four games. If they keep up that pace for the rest of the year, they will finish the season with 114 wins.

No shot at the playoffs? Pffft! The Jays are on pace to have one of the best seasons in major league history!

What can I say? I love that guy!

Yeah, thats like 15 shots on goal and.... oh screw it. I cant think of anything.

A nice dominating win to send a message to the AL East the jays bats are awake. This brings us to 6 -12 so we can at least say we're as good as the Mariners and almost as good as the Indians!

Hey, the Jays are almost as good as the Yankees. Watch for the fireworks if the Yankees fall into last place.

Long time reader - first time poster. Well what can i say - Wow tha bats have woken up!

I have to say that i like the movement on the ball that Nakamura has. Also he looks really deceptive with the almost standing sidearm (if you saw the game on mlb.tv you would know what i mean).

If the Orioles are, uh...the Sabres...than Luis Lopez is Mike Grier.

I think.

Optimistic stat of the day:

The Blue Jays are now above .500 on the road.

Question: who is Mike Nakamura, and is he for real?

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Aaron, why does Rogers Digital look like crap on your big TV? Is satellite known to have higher resolution that digital cable?

The resolution is about the same, however the compression is either higher or their algorithm is less efficient, because the artifacting is pretty bad.

In a heads-up between Rogers Digital Cable, Bell ExpressVu and StarChoice, StarChoice was the clear winner.

By the way, StarChoice uses Viewer's Choice PPV, but the game was still not available.

Optimistic stat of the day (2):

Toronto relievers have the following composite pitching line: 59.2 IP, 55 H, 7 HR, 25 BB, 51 K. Toss out Aquilino, and they're at 51 IP, 40 H, 3 HR, 21 BB, 44 K.

With Frasor and Nakamura's impressive debuts, the bullpen looks like it could be a real strength this season.

By the way, in case anyone from Epson reads this bulletin board: If you broadcast that ad on the radio one more time, I swear I will never buy any of your products for as long as I live.

John, if you'd ever bought an Epson product, you might have already made that little vow. I know I have.

Hey, Alex, another from the UK. Whereabouts are you and how did you get into baseball?

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
As a heavy user of Epson products, I'll say this for them: while they are not durable at all, they still make the highest print-quality photographic printers on the market.

Kudos to the Epson marketing folks. They've certainly done their job. They'd probably be dancing the dance of joy if they saw whats going on in this bulletin board.

Greenfrog: The Jays claimed Nakamura from the Twins on April 9. He put up excellent stats throughout his minor league career:

Season  Level  IP    H  BB  K  HR
2001     AA   86.1  75  24 109
2002    AAA   87.1  85  22  80  7
2003    AAA   78.1  71  28  95  4

but struggled in a cup of coffee in 2003 (12.2 IP, 20 H, 2 BB, 14 K, 4 HR) and was inexplicably put on waivers a few weeks ago when the Twins just couldn't wait to call Seth Greisinger up.

I think he's for real, although I don't think he'll maintain his current pace ;)

Who's leading the Jays regulars so far in OPS?... Of course, it's Chris Woodward!

The young arms looked impressive and the bats finally broke out of their slump. Hopefully we can continue this positive streak in Minnesota. This could be an interesting series.

It'd be nice to see Nakamura take revenge against Terry Ryan and his old team.

Two other people from the UK log onto da box! I thought I was the only one.

Where are you both from? I'm originally from Ottawa and moved to London in '93.

Great to see the Jays actually hit today, hopefully minny and the white sox will see the 'real' lineup.

I've always been from the UK! I got into baseball watching some cable TV when at a conference in Canada - I like it as an alternative to cricket which is clearly the superior sport but takes a bit longer to play. And the applies stats part of baseball appeals.

Now I watch baseball on mlb.tv and try to learn the language. I picked Toronto as "my" team because they had the best logo - as good a reason as any given that I have no connection with any city that side of the Atlantic.

I'm off to another conference in May, this time in Toronto. So I'll get to see them live for the first time ever! I'll be there for the series against Anaheim. I'm wondering whether it's worth trying to buy expensive tickets. Any advice?

Great to see the bats hit, hopefully this is the turning point in the Jays offense.

I don't mind the Epson ads so much, but the one that gets me is "Did somebody say steak?" It always makes me hungry for steak. So I guess it is effective, although since I live in the SF bay area I'm probably not their target dempographic.

About the Jays not being that popular a team with MLB.com, I'm a little surprised. I mean I know that the Jays are no Yankees in draw but I would have thought that looking just at the internet users the Jays would be more popular. The Jays were one of the most popular teams on baseball primer (based on polling of their readers, just behind the Red Sox) even before they got JP as GM. And for a lot of younger people (who I think of as more likely to visit MLB.com) I would think the Jays would have a following due to the fact that they were one of the best teams in the majors from the mid 80s to the strike.

I tune into a Jays game thread and get an einsturzende neubauten mention. I absolutely love the people who post here.

So I'll get to see them live for the first time ever! I'll be there for the series against Anaheim. I'm wondering whether it's worth trying to buy expensive tickets. Any advice?

Depends on how much you want to spend. The "In The Action" seats, which are the most expensive seats in the house, are spectacular. Any field-level seat between home plate and the bases is great. However, I'd rather sit in the 500 level behind home than sit on field-level in the seats between the bases and the outfield. I think that those seats, while close, don't really give you a great view of the game. However, they are excellent if you intend to heckle a specific player. ;)

If you want to get together for pre or post game Beer Club, drop me a line (COMN).

Andrew K: Sure buy the sweet tickets. They wont be hard to get and we could use the revenue boost :)

Michael: Yeah, thats what i was thinking that the jays were more popular than MLB lets on. There were about 4 times that i recal their game was given a spot in the main window, each time with the opposing team's picture, only to be promptly taken down when the Jays broke it open, to many times for my liking. It may not be related but like you said, internet support for the jays seems to be huge. I was at a video game site waiting for clips from the latest PS2 baseball game, and the site said they were swamped with requests to show clips of the Jays in action in the game. Anyone else here from out (possibly WAY out) of town who simply latched onto the team for no reason? Maybe you can explain what its like out there.

Great to see some more Brits on th box. I moved to Toronto from Wales four or five years ago.

Andrew K, you shouldn't have any trouble getting you're hands on good tickets, and after the exchange rate effect you'll hardly find them expensive :). The scalpers are normally selling good seats for less than the box office on the day of the game, or at least thats what they shout at me as I walk past.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Usually the scalpers are cheaper than face value because they buy group-rate packages at a 50% discount and resell them for 10 or 20% off.

Two things I missed earlier in the thread --

Jobu, the True Fan Rewards Club is not running this year. Us Season's Pass folks must have taken too much free stuff for our $81 last year.

And I'd buy a JaysTV channel, too, if it were priced the same as RaptorsTV / LeafsTV (about two bucks a month). It would be great if it carried a bunch of Spring Training games, the occassional classic game rerun, and maybe some baseball movies or something to fill up the schedule.

Back to the Blue Jay fanbase question, does anyone know why and when the Blue Jays lost their record setting fanbase? I've only been into baseball for 2 or 3 years now so I can't say I really recall. Did the strike scare away fans and then the jays went on firesale. Did they just have a firesale for no reason after the 93 series and the fans turned away in droves. Did the fans just stop comming for no apparent reason forcing the team to have a fire sale?

I wish i knew because i wish i was there to enjoy the Dome in its prime.

Have the MLB Package from Rogers and the game wasn't available on there -- i'm assuming you have to pay above and beyond? To me, that is not surprising -- is it any wonder channel 22 (rogerssportsnet) has the crappiest reception of any of my 200 + channels? What a lousy, money-hungry corp. -- i've already called in to get rob faulds fired, gotta think up more things to vent about ...

Jobu: There was no firesale. After the '93 season, the Jays returned roughly the same roster in '94, and again in '95. A lot of free agents left after '95, but the Jays actually wanted a lot of them to return and were unable to sign them.

I give the following reasons for the attendance dropoff:
1. The strike didn't help. There was an attendance drop from '94 to '95. Not a huge one, but significant. However, the '95 attendance was still higher than it's ever been since, so we can't blame it all on the strike.
2. Poor play of the team. (They were worst in the majors in '95.) Some will say that the Jays' problem was that they couldn't get enough pitching, but in fact the offense was more frequently a problem.
3. Narrative closure. Jays fans through the '80s were waiting and waiting for the team to finally put it all together and win the Series. Then they did, and everyone said, "Good!" and moved on to other things.
4. SkyDome went out of style. People started looking to Camden Yards and Jacobs Field and The Ballpark in Arlington as examples of what a baseball stadium should be like.
5. Rise of the Raptors.
6. Possibly the Canadian economy had an impact?

So in conclusion, aside from the impossible task of a new stadium, even if they made the playoffs, do you think fans could ever return to the dome in the same number they once did?

So in conclusion, aside from the impossible task of a new stadium, even if they made the playoffs, do you think fans could ever return to the dome in the same number they once did?

Absolutely. A deep playoff run coupled with a hockey strike or struggling Leaf team, and the Jays could become the hot ticket again. They'll never go back to their early Skydome crowds, but yearly attendance approaching 3 million isn't out of the realm of possibility. The Raptors woes are helping the Jays somewhat, but not as much as you might think, as the two teams have much different demographics.

Given the fact that the Jays are in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox (and an improve Oriole team), and the superb play of Eddie Belfour, this is going to be really, really difficult. The next ten years could bring anything from a few World Series titles to being contracted, which makes it a particularly exciting time to be a fan of the team.

The next ten years could bring anything from a few World Series titles to being contracted

Do you really think contraction is a possibility? I don't see it at all. Ever since Rogers took over the Jays, their every action has suggested that they're trying to fit the team into their overall corporate strategy--why else would they have bought the FAN? I'm not even sure high attendance is crucial for Rogers to view the Jays as a success, not as long as they're providing plentiful and cheap programming for Sportsnet.

I agree that the fans will come out to support a winner. As for the 4-million,-50-thou-a-game crowds they used to draw . . . no, I don't think that'll happen either, but there's nothing preventing it from happening.

Do you really think contraction is a possibility? I don't see it at all.

A remote one, but absolutely real. I feel a heck of a lot better with Rogers owning the team than I would with say, a brewery in Belgium.

But like anything else, Rogers is a business first. If the Jays for whatever reason tanked and started winning 70 games a year for a few years in a row, they'd draw both flies both at the stadium and on TV. Eventually Rogers would want to cut and run, and if Selig made the right offer, you think they'd have to take it.

The Jays survival depends on them putting at a minimum a reasonably successful team on the field, and with J.P. at the helm, they should have no trouble doing so. If a couple years ago the Jays had hired, say, Chuck LaMar, I think they'd be contraction partners with the Expos in '08.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it runs up against the fact that the Toronto market is simply too big and potentially lucrative to abandon. It'd be like the NFL not having a team in Los Angeles--it simply couldn't ever happen. To paraphrase a line of dialogue from the final episode of Sports Night, anyone who can't make money on a major league baseball team in Toronto doesn't deserve the chance to try.

I agree with Mike. Contraction (which would really just be an interlude in the war with the MLBPA, and would be quickly followed by the awarding of four expansion franchises) isn't likely, but is certainly a possible for 2007 or so, maybe 2008. If the Expos have not been moved in 2006 (certainly a possibility) then contraction talk will heat up and if the Blue Jays have had a couple of nightmare seasons, talk will probably center on Toronto since Toronto and Montreal are natural contraction partners (with Milwaukee making the oh-so-cynical move back "home" to the AL). Any contraction of a team in the U.S. leaves MLB open to unfriendly Senators harrumphing about the antitrust exemption.

That's the great advantage of contracting Toronto and Montreal at the same time; for all the Jays' friends among the city's power elite, neither team has any friends in the country's power structure, and the Canadian fan base is, in MLB's eyes, weak and essentially severable.

Anyway, if contraction ever actually happens (in the next decade), it will likely be Toronto and Montreal. I don't think contraction is at all likely to actually happen, but there is a nonzero chance.

It'd be like the NFL not having a team in Los Angeles

or Toronto ;)

I shutter to think what attendance will be like for the Jays, Raptors, Argos and Rock if Toronto ever got an NFL team.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
is it any wonder channel 22 (rogerssportsnet) has the crappiest reception of any of my 200 + channels?

Does it really? Ever since they've started doing HD broadcasts on a regular basis, I've found their broadcasts to be among the best looking on television, especially the baseball, though the away games vary wildly from stadium to stadium.

But again, I'm watching it on StarChoice.

Jobu: The good thing is that SkyDome could never suit an NFL team. So for once the stadium's crappiness (sp?) pays off. :)

Yeah I heard that the dome isn't up to the NFL league req's for a potential stadium.... I wouldn't mind an nfl team one bit... the nfl is great... Paul Godfrey is on the record saying that he'd be happy to move a club here so long as he wouldn't have to create an expansion team... The jags, colts and panthers all come to mind as teams that could be playing their games in LA or TOR one day...

Yeah I heard that the dome isn't up to the NFL league req's for a potential stadium

Well, they would need to get rid of the concrete turf and somehow add 15 thousand seats. Oh, and make the place look nice.

There were rumours in the press toward the end of Ash's reign that Rogers was already fed up with the losses and were actively looking for partners. To me this was like the first step in losing the team. The job that JP has done on the financial side has completely stopped this talk and for that we should be all grateful.

It'd be like the NFL not having a team in Los Angeles--it simply couldn't ever happen.

There isn't an NFL team in LA. And no one in LA seems to care, and the NFL is doing quite nicely without them.

On one hand I'd love to have a team here too (NFL), but one another hand, I'd hate to see the Argos attendance drop to nil and any untold effects on Blue Jay attendance.

If however it somehow resulted in a new, real grass stadium for the Jays... i'd be a little happier :)

Pistol: That was me having my little joke. But my point remains.

I am a jays fan from New York since '87. Bring back the baby blue unis!!!

BTW Aren't the Jays near the bottom in terms of merchandise sales???

Another question??
Where is Marty Janzen now??? What a horrible trade that was.

From New York? I would figure you'd be the least likely to get into the jays. Do you just like them as in dont hate them, or do you actually root for them openly as your favourite team? What made you a fan Chris B??

I just looked it up. Marty is 31 years old and of course long forgotten.
Here is his uneventful MLB history.

Transactions
August 8, 1991: Signed by the New York Yankees as an amateur free agent.

July 28, 1995: Traded by the New York Yankees with Jason Jarvis (minors) and Mike Gordon (minors) to the Toronto Blue Jays for David Cone.

November 18, 1997: Drafted by the Arizona Diamondbacks from the Toronto Blue Jays as the 69th pick in the 1997 expansion draft.

March 7, 1998: Traded by the Arizona Diamondbacks with Todd Erdos to the New York Yankees for Andy Fox.

The uniform and logo at an early age was a big attraction to me like the fellow from the UK. I got to watch more jays games than usual because of the Eastern division coverage with the Yankees. The yankees' couldn't beat the jays for so many years from the mid 80s to the late 90s. Of course the yanks hit rock bottom in '89 and were a nonfactor for a couple of years after that. I gradually became a huge jays fan after a year or two. Really strange huh??? In the heart of yankee country................

correction I mean early 90s. oops.

Really strange indeed. Glad to have you with us though. Look forward to seeing you in the Dome when they make the playoffs this year ;)

I was getting flack at Fenway for wearing my jays hat at Doc/Pedro I in the right field bleachers behind the pen. A few ignorant people starting chanting U-S-A. I'm like man, I'm not from Ontario. I think that there are alot of mainland U.S. jays fans lurking around.

HA HA HA... thats a hilarious image, Americans taunting an American with a USA chant. I wouldnt have a clue what to do in a situation like that. You should have turned and faced them and just joined in and have a blast. I was hoping to take a trip to boston to see the Jays play, is that the worse abuse I can expect to attact? Are there really that many mainland USA jay fans, cuse MLB.com seems to disagree...

I think that they are scattered about. Those two world series championships had to have made an impression in the states. People like winners. I of course was a big fan 6 years before this wondrous occasion. Maybe they are frontrunners waiting for another run at glory LOL

Its pretty docile at Fenway in certain spots. The Jays are just the OTHER AL East team. The situation in the Yankee stadium bleachers gets a little bit more dicier. Last year, I got in a heated argument with these yankee fans about Mondesi. I was screaming things back and forth. Some young jays fans (just 2!!) 15 rows back of had the audacity to start a very underappreciated "Yankees choke" chant in regard to their recent postseason disappointments. Clueless I tell you. 28 World Championships shut me up.

Named From Hank -- I can't speak for Starchoice programming, so i'll take your word that it is a nice feed on yr. end -- i have rogers digital cable and sportsnet is by far the worst reception of any of the channels i have -- the sound quality is really low and the feed is never consistent -- as for the HDTV aspect, i think it really sucks b/c i don't have an HD compatible TV (maybe someday, but not right now) -- the HDTV feed makes it worse simply b/c it's like watching a widescreen movie -- i have a 27 inch sony wega that is 4 years old -- the picture is compressed on my screen considerably when broadcast in HDTV -- i'm sure it would look fantastic on a plasma or big screen TV, but i'm not there yet --

I cant fathom being in the middle of the bronx bleachers starting an anti-yankees chant with only one other friend and not expecting to leave unharmed...

Still hope i can go one day though.

Have you ever been to the Dome for a game?

I was there once in 2000. Its too quiet & I despise the canned sound. Its an impressive structure but the inside screams airplane hangar meets futurama rather than a nostalgic baseball park. Maybe some renovation could cure the ills. Its certainly far from the worst ballpark but it could be better. BTW Aren't they still paying for the skydome till like year 2012 or something?? Correct me??

Im not sure about the payment thing, i'll look it up. But as far as the atmosphere and look you wont hear any arguments from me. It just sucks the life out of the crowd. A new stadium would do wonders for the attendance, which i think would actually last a decade or two with a nice enough stadium. Of course thats not gonna happen for a long time. Damn that cavern...

I've said it all along... although I don't disagree with your opinions on the dome, I don't think its the primary problem... its the fan indifference and the lack of enthusiasm from the general populous that allows a highly exciting team to go unnoticed (no I'm not biased in the slightest).

A 40k crowd is a lost concept unless its opening day. Hockey Hockey Hockey... all I hear since I moved here.. The tuesday affair of doc v pedro had numerous attendees in the hallway corridors watching the leafs game 7 vs the sens on tv... it was pathetic...

Andrew K - I was born in Toronto in 76 and lived there till about 91. Use to go to the games at Exibition Stadium and Skydome when i could with my dad. When I couldn't go we use to watch the matches on television with the sound muted and listen to Tom and Jerry on the Radio. Sadly I was over here in the UK the two times that the Jays won the World Series and had to deal with the minimal coverage that the UK gave. Until recently I hadn't been able to listen to the games or see them. But i discovered that I can listen to the games on the Fan 590 (which i have started listening to a lot now) and this season I have invested in MLB.tv so I can watch the matches when they are on during the day (ie not 7pm which is midnight GMT). On the late games I have it playing on my PC while I go to sleep. I normally get to about the 3rd inning before I am asleep.

i heard about Batters Box on one of the Mike Wilner call in shows when someone had phoned in last season (I think).

Just thought Id mention that Im also a London (UK) based Blue Jays fan. Been following the game since '89 when I spent a year at Brock University for part of my degree.

Not a bad time I think to hook up with the Jays given the success soon afterwards... good job I didnt go in '94 instead.

To the others over here on the right side of the pond, I've got the mlb.com internet/tv package at home, and had a great time watching the whipping of Baltimore yesterday (Sunday) evening. If you've got a decent computer at home its well worth the money.

Here is a question - If the Leafs weren't a perrenial (sp) playoff team, do you think people would stop following them and start watching the Jays games again?

Hey, just read your post Alex, and Im exactly the same.

Most nights I stick the commentry from Fan 90 over the internet on and usually drift off to sleep a few innings in. Then in the morning listen to the rest of the game at work.

OK, its not necessarily best for productivity, but beats the endless meetings...

So there are about 4 of us in the UK, although everyone but me seems to be in London, with Gwyn in Wales (but if I understand right I'm the only genuine Englishman). I'm in Oxford. Makes it hard to get together for a beer club!

My loyalties will be a bit torn in a month or so when the cricket season really starts up. The good news is that the time difference works in my favour - I can listen to cricket on the radio all day and then swap to baseball evening or nights. You guys should check cricket out, although there's almost none of the stats mania to go with it. The heart of the game is similar but the boot is in the other foot - in cricket it's the hitter (we call them batsmen) who can ruin it all with one mistake, whereas baseball it's the pitcher (we call them bowlers). And in cricket it's perfectly okay to aim to hit the batter; a common tactic is to bounce the ball off the ground at his head. Great to watch. There are a few other differences of course, not least that full games take 30 hours of playing time to complete and often end in a draw...

Ahhh i am in Cambridge - I don't understand cricket though

Btw there was a pub in London, Covent Garden called the Maple Leaf which is a canadian pub (for any canadians in the UK) but mostly has hockey memoribelia(sp) in it and license plates from the canadian provences on the wall. A good place to go to on Canada Day in the UK. Now if they could only get baseball games.......

UK fans are taking over! I do the exact same thing (leave the radio on my laptop when i go to sleep), plus the fact that i'm a university student means i don't have to get up til noon ;) so i usually get past the third, but not by much.

I can't say I've ever related to cricket, when I moved here the game totally baffled me, I understand it now but I have to say Baseball is more entertaining IMO.

Andrew, you and me both... Im a born and bred Somerset lad... but a year in Canada in my youth and I now commit one of the bigger crimes in this country which is to religiously follow an american sport... Although I feel supporting a canadian team somewhat reduces the level of the crime.

Hey what is it with Yankees caps over here. People here seem to wear them as fashion accessories, with (Im suspecting) no idea whatsoever they're endorcing the evil empire with their choice of headgear. I'm forever fighting the urge to hassle people if they have any idea what the logo means on their heads...

Did the sign on this place change? I didn't know we turned into a European meat market :-)...This Internet thing's pretty cool, eh?

i have rogers digital cable and sportsnet is by far the worst reception of any of the channels i have

I can believe it. It's a shame, because the actual quality of their broadcast is very high. But like I said, Rogers Digital Cable looked like junk compared to StarChoice.

This is all on a large, non-HD, carefully calibrated TV.

I think this place should turn into the UK BB during mornings GMT, as all respectable Americans & Canadians are in bed at that time. I tell you what, I'll even educate you by writing an article on cricket batting and bowling averages (joking!).

Jimbob, the Yankees caps things is just the same as people wearing Manchester United shirts overseas. They want to identify with success, even if it is success with no soul and purchased with suckers' money. Actually one of my colleagues is from Boston and (obviously) an avid Red Sox fan so we have entertaining conversations over lunch when I extoll the virtues of the Yankees just to wind her up. I must say I get strange looks from more conventional academics when I talk about baseball.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
I've always wanted to understand cricket, but it seems like one of those games where you can't absorb the rules by casually watching a game.

Anyone got a good website that explains how the game works?

Just a stupid thought, but do you think the Dome would ever consider piping in low-level crowd noise, just to give the place a bit more "realistic" feel?

To all asking about why the Jays lost their almost pre-eminent following in Toronto - it's complicated!

I have lived in Toronto my whole life and have followed baseball for 40 years. I was in 7th heaven when we got the Jays back in '77. From '83 to '93 the Jays were THE sports franchise in the City partly because they were good and equally the Leafs were generally fairly bad.

The '94 strike really hurt things here, seemingly much more so than in U.S. cities. Even today, 10 years later, when I talk to other parents at my sons' baseball games, there is still bitterness about it (although no one can really say why).

When Labatt's was sold to Interbrew and the Jays went with them, ownership had absolutely no interest in the team. Labatt's had always seen the Jays as a way to sell beer; Interbrew didn't see it that way.

Coupled with those two factors was the Jay's inevitable decline from the level of World Champions. Casual Toronto fans are fans of winners and take no joy from just watching the game.

Can we get fans back? It's going to be an uphill fight. The demographics of Toronto have changed radically over the past 20 years. Less than half of the people in the Greater Toronto Area were born here and many come from parts of the world in which they have had absolutely no exposure to baseball. Unlike hockey, soccer or even basketball, baseball is not an easy game to pick up unless you played (even sandlot ball) as a kid. If you don't have some basic understanding, it can seem boring, especially in a tightly pitched game. (I took a Slovak friend of mine to the Boston game last Wednesday and he was lost for at least 4 innings, despite all the "teaching" I had done with him over the couple of weeks beforehand. He did start to get into it later in the game.) I don't have any idea how these people can be reached by baseball, unless the team starts to win big time.

Add to all of this the general perception that Skydome is a lousy place to watch anything. I personally think the Dome gets a bad rap, especially when it's open. I agree that the rug surface is a disgrace and that the closed roof dampens things, but having been there during games with a decent crowd and the roof open, it really ain't that bad. And it's a great improvement over CNE stadium especially in the cold and wet. We all have great memories of games at the Ex, but if we're honest with ourselves, we remember that that stadium really was bad.

MLB does denigrate the Jays somewhat, at least on their web site - in the Sunday photo gallery on the site today, the only picture from Jays vs. Orioles was Tejada missing a catch on a Woody hit. It's hard to remember now that the Jays were resented in the World Series years, as we were the "big spenders" who "bought championships". I remember one of the late night show hosts the night of the '92 Championship saying "Their Americans beat our Americans".

The one good thing is that hockey interest may start to fade over the next couple of years. There may not even be hockey next year and, if there is, the Leafs are likely to decline - they are an old team and the minor league cupboards are bare. Of course, MLSE can go out and buy players, but if the Leafs fail this year, I think they might start losing some of their fan base.

Is it hopeless? No. But marketing has to be more grass roots and we've got to get kids playing ball - every one of those becomes a future fan. In Toronto (and even moreso in the GTA) we need to realize that we are one of only 30 cities in the world that have a Major League team and soon may be the only city outside of the U.S. to be so lucky.

So keep watching - and hope that the Jays do contend soon.

"Their Americans beat our Americans".

ha ha ha, thats a good one. I suppose we could say the same thing about every stanley cup team with Canadians, but i dont follow hockey as closely as baseball.

On a similar note, i dont know if this is just urban legend or not, but my friend seems to remember seeing an episode of Saturday Night Live where durring the weekend update segement whoever the host was at the time said "by the way, the Blue Jays just beat the Phillies" (apparently a late game) and the crowd started booing... lol

anyone remember that or is my friend insane?

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ABOUT_CRICKET/EXPLANATION/EXPLANATION_OF_CRICKET.html
NFH - cricinfo.com is the leading cricket site on the net. COMN for their explanation of the game....