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Make Your Own Roundup: December 15 | 160 comments | Create New Account
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_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:47 AM EST (#8759) #
From the other thread...

Vet Alou an option for Jays (Rutsey, Sun)

Rutsey also claims that the Jays have interest in Estes. Why? I dunno. The man has uniformly sucked since 2000.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:52 AM EST (#8760) #
Because he's cheap?

He wasn't *that* bad last year. 15-8 for an awful team. His ERA was garbage, but he was pitching in Coors.

If they get him for under a million, it might not be a bad gamble. There are worse #5 starters.
_GregH - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:53 AM EST (#8761) #
From Lee Sinins ATM Reports, today's date:

The D.C. Council voted 7-6 to require private funding for at least 50% of the Nationals new stadium. MLB does not like that and may move the team again after the 2005 season

Hmmm - does the plot thicken? Vegas, anyone?
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:58 AM EST (#8762) #
I'm on fire tonite!


Koskie comes home to Canada (Millson, Globe)


Nothing really new said, but hey - we find out that Koskie is a bit of a prankster in the dressing room...errr. clubhouse.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:59 AM EST (#8763) #
I'll believe that the Expos have moved to Washington when I see footage of a game on TV.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:02 PM EST (#8764) #
I'll believe that the Expos have moved to Washington when I see footage of a game on TV.

Phbbb. They'll just fake it like they did the moon landing.

/tinfoil hat
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:03 PM EST (#8765) #
His ERA was garbage, but he was pitching in Coors.

True. but his peripherals also blew. 105/117 BB/K makes Batista look like a control artist.

And its not like he was good away from the friendly confines of Planet Coors: 5.53 ERA, 61/75 BB/K in 112 IP.

Sure. Take him as a million-dollar flier and slot him in as #5. He did make only $600k last year, so he may come cheap.

'Cept. Where's his upside? Wouldn't you rather have Towers/Miller in the 5 hole, rather than Estes?
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:05 PM EST (#8766) #
From Millson:

Koskie, 31, will receive a $3-million signing bonus and $2.5-million in 2005, $5.25-million in 2006, $5.75-million in 2007. If he has 1,200 plate appearances over the second and third years of the deal, the fourth year kicks in automatically.

It is as I suspected: the reports that the automatic option was based on the first and second but not the third year were either a typo or someone getting their years mixed up. Probably the second -- if I'm going to tell someone that the deal is based on next year and the year after, I think to myself "this year is '04, next year is '05 and the year after is '06", forgetting that this upcoming season is '05. We've only got a couple of weeks left to go in '04, after all.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:05 PM EST (#8767) #
True. but his peripherals also blew. 105/117 BB/K makes Batista look like a control artist.

Totally. The only good thing about Estes is that he doesn't give up many homeruns. He's an extreme ground ball pitcher, so the Jays would be a perfect match for him. There's a chance he'll put up a good 1st half then the Jays can flip him for prospects. Can't really say the same about Towers or Miller, as they probably wouldn't fetch anything in trade, even with a decent 1st half.
_the shadow - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:11 PM EST (#8768) #
Renteria is a Red Sox
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:12 PM EST (#8769) #
Phbbb. They'll just fake it like they did the moon landing.

I can see it now: they'll re-run old Montreal games with new announcers, and change the names of the players to reflect the current roster.
_MatO - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:12 PM EST (#8770) #
Rotoworld and Boston Globe reporting Renteria signs with Boston for $40 over 4.
_Rich Hacker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:14 PM EST (#8771) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=5602
Rotoword has confirmed this as well COMN for details
_Braby21 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:19 PM EST (#8772) #
Does this mean that Boston may not go after Clement? Or do they still need to add another 10 million a year pitcher?
_Daryn - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:20 PM EST (#8773) #
4/40 for Renteria

*low whistle*
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:21 PM EST (#8774) #
I can see it now: they'll re-run old Montreal games with new announcers, and change the names of the players to reflect the current roster.

Nah. It will be a hyper realistic computer simulation run by the RAND corporation and financed by the Illuminati. The Trilateral Commission is involved somehow, but they're up to something so top secret, nobody knows about it. Mind control cuttlefish? You heard it here first.
_Jim Acker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:22 PM EST (#8775) #
See, Everyone loves a fun new Jays round up thread!
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:25 PM EST (#8776) #
Can't really say the same about Towers or Miller, as they probably wouldn't fetch anything in trade, even with a decent 1st half.

Well. How 'bout this. We stick with Towers/Miller in the rotation, but - and this is the brilliant part - we make them both wear jerseys with 'Estes' written on the back.

Then, if they have a good half, it'd be easier to flip 'em for something shiny cause they'd have name recognition.

(NB. This'd probably work better if you trade them to the White Sox, or the Reds or something)
_Jim Acker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:25 PM EST (#8777) #
Here's an idea we all should consider. Should we as members of the Da Box community, try and start a "Matt, Please sign with the Jays" Campaign, similar to what Sox fans did last year to court Schilling? I have no idea if Clement is a Net junkie, but why not give it a shot?

Thoughts?
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:34 PM EST (#8779) #
try and start a "Matt, Please sign with the Jays" Campaign, similar to what Sox fans did last year to court Schilling?

Dont forget NFH's eloquent attempt to lure Nomah north of the border. Tragically, that one didnt turn out so well.
_MatO - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:34 PM EST (#8780) #
The Boston Globe indicates that Boston will dangle Hanley Ramirez now for pitching. Don't know how that affects Clement.
_Braby21 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:42 PM EST (#8781) #
NFH since you're experience in this kind of thing, do it up!

Just make sure it works this time....haha

Clement looks more like someone who may spend hours on the Internet, does he not?
_Matt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:42 PM EST (#8782) #
Is Boston in the Unit market???
_Brian W - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:44 PM EST (#8783) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945407
Reports are that Sexson will sign with Seattle for $48M over 4 years. If he is worth $12M then I guess Delgado must be worth close to $15M.
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:45 PM EST (#8784) #
Clement looks more like someone who may spend hours on the Internet, does he not?

Hrmm. Well. Lesse.

* He doesnt look pasty.
* No acne evident
* Little signs that he has dorito dust under his fingernails
* Whip-thin, rather than Comic-Book Guy fat
* Has never waxed long about that time he kicked Lew Ford's ass in Everquest.

Nope. Doesnt seem like an internet junkie to me.
_Jim Acker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:51 PM EST (#8785) #
Does SF have any insight on Clement's (or Clement's agent's) internet habits?
_Fozzy - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:52 PM EST (#8786) #
Word out of an LA radio station is that the Diamondbacks have signed Clement today. Take it with a tiny grain of salt, though.
_bird droppings - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 12:57 PM EST (#8787) #
The editor I currently work under was the editor of a documentary on how the moon landings were staged...

Although persuasive, the documentary didn't sway me into believing that the landings never happened...

Why? I highly doubt that the United States government would ever lie.

(Cue ridiculous, overrated "documentary" filmmaker Michael Moore)

FYI - Errol Morris' earlier films are being released on DVD in February!
If you've never heard of him, check out "Mr. Death" or "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control."

Fight and you may die, run and you will live...

You may take our lives... but you will never take our O Dog!!

Rant Over.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:02 PM EST (#8788) #
Do you ever stop to think that we may be going about this all wrong? I mean why sign a guy who will be good "for a while" when you could invest millions of dollars in creating a team of nuclear powered baseball robots??

Common sense people...

(PS. Common CLEMENT!! We'll let you hold the HAMMER and promise to think of creative "K's" for you....once we get around to it)
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:05 PM EST (#8789) #
What kind of Ks would we make for Clement?

Oranges?
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:05 PM EST (#8790) #
Word out of an LA radio station is that the Diamondbacks have signed Clement today.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Especially combined with the rumour that AZ has also signed Royce Clayton and Craig Counsell.

Arent they supposed to be out of money, out there in the desert?
_JayFan0912 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:07 PM EST (#8791) #
A question though, now that the deal with the chisox is gone, who would be the other bat in the lineup. Even if hinske plays first, there is a hole at dh.

If we could sign clement, I would like to see if the angels would be interested in a lilly/hinske for kotchman swap.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:07 PM EST (#8792) #
FYI - Errol Morris' earlier films are being released on DVD in February!
If you've never heard of him, check out "Mr. Death" or "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control."


Gates of Heaven! Gates of Heaven! Gates of Heaven!

And also The Thin Blue Line.

bd: I always want to punch the moon-landing-hoax guys in the face when I see the "evidence" that's based on analysis of photographs, because it's so bad and so very very wrong.
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:14 PM EST (#8793) #
FYI - Errol Morris' earlier films are being released on DVD in February!
If you've never heard of him, check out "Mr. Death" or "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control."


Fog of War! Fog of War! Fog of War!

Tho, Mr. Death was great as well.
Pistol - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:23 PM EST (#8794) #
Arent they supposed to be out of money, out there in the desert?

I read somewhere that Arizona went out and got a lot of minority investors to raise money - something like 40, each chipping in at least $3 million.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:27 PM EST (#8795) #
What kind of Ks would we make for Clement?

Oranges?


I was thinking Billy-Goats
_MatO - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:28 PM EST (#8796) #
I read somewhere that Arizona went out and got a lot of minority investors to raise money - something like 40, each chipping in at least $3 million.

Let me get this straight. They piss away all their money and go out and find 40 more suckers to invest in the team? Ted Rogers are you listening?
_Braby21 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:29 PM EST (#8797) #
Hmmm, screw naming the SkyDome lets pool our money together to get some big name free agents.
_Daryn - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:33 PM EST (#8798) #
Reports are that Sexson will sign with Seattle for $48M over 4 years. If he is worth $12M then I guess Delgado must be worth close to $15M.

If Carlos gets 15M, then I quit, I don't want to be an owner anymore.!!!
_rodent - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:35 PM EST (#8799) #
Allow me to explain...
See, no man ever first landed on the moon...
We were always landing.
No photograph ever proved a thing.
They were lying from the day I was born.
The world was always this small.
_Wayne H. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:36 PM EST (#8800) #
Here is what Phil Plait's great site Bad Astronomy has to say about that ludicrous faked Moon landing story.

Needless to say, Phil Plait is not impressed by the whole hoax thing.
_Daryn - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:39 PM EST (#8801) #
That's too weird Wayne.
I was just reading that very site about an hour ago.
_Wayne H. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:48 PM EST (#8802) #
Cue Twilight Zone theme....and the Golden Earring classic as well, for good measure.
_MatO - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:48 PM EST (#8803) #
Diamonbacks: We need at least $3M from each of you to help pay for all those deferred payments we have. Are you in?

Investors: Uhm. OK!
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:54 PM EST (#8804) #
I saw a fake documentary on the faked moon landings on the CBC about 6 months ago.

It was a great example of the power of editing - Donald Rumsfeld interview footage was cut just so to support the thesis that the govenment contracted Stanley Kubrick to use the sets for "2001" to make fake moon walking footage.

Most of the film seems like a straightforward expose of the government's fakery, but the last part reveals that the documentary itself is a fake.

Object lesson: don't take anything you see on TV or film as proof of anything.
_Rich Hacker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:55 PM EST (#8805) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=5943
Boston signed John Halama today to a 1 year contract.
_Rich Hacker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 01:57 PM EST (#8806) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6099
Here is a Matt Clement update.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:02 PM EST (#8807) #
I hope Clement doesn't visit Toronto too soon...

JAYS REP: So, Matt, how do you like Toronto?
CLEMENT: It's so cold!
JAYS REP: Oh, yes, but it's not like that during baseball season.
CLEMENT: Riiiiiiight.
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:16 PM EST (#8808) #
Clement pitched in Chicago, and by all accounts hails from the Cleveland area.

I'm sure he's more than familiar with the concepts of "minus gazillion with the wind chill" and "lake effect snow".

Other sales pitches:

"Toronto! Our football team won it all last year!" (ok. Doesnt work well against Boston, but has Cleveland/Anaheim beat)

"Toronto! The fans loved the last guy who had that billy-goat beard thing!"

"Toronto! You know you dont actually have to live here in the off-season, right?"
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:19 PM EST (#8809) #
I saw a fake documentary on the faked moon landings on the CBC about 6 months ago.

I saw that too...it was on the CBC's 'Passionate Eye'.
It was great - they had me snookered 100%, until the reveal.
There has been a definitely increase in my scepticism of mainstream media reporting since I saw that.

Grand Funk out.
_Jordan - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:23 PM EST (#8810) #
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2004/12/8parang.html
why sign a guy who will be good "for a while" when you could invest millions of dollars in creating a team of nuclear powered baseball robots??

Or football robots (comn).
Dave Till - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:33 PM EST (#8811) #
Re Shawn Estes: I once had him on my Roto team, and here's my opinion of him: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:34 PM EST (#8812) #
Or football robots (comn).

I was *sure* you were going to link to this:



Greatest game ever.
_MatO - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:35 PM EST (#8813) #
Actually Clement is from Butler PA which is north of Pittsburgh. Less than a 4 hour drive for the family to Toronto.
_Christopher - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:39 PM EST (#8814) #
I was *sure* you were going to link to this:

I used to have that haircut.
And I think that shirt.
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 02:54 PM EST (#8815) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/
COMN

Alou will be of interest only if Clement refuses to take Mr. Godfrey's money...
_Blue in SK - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:02 PM EST (#8816) #
I had that game! Don't think I ever completed a pass.
_Kevin Pataky - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:27 PM EST (#8817) #
President Luccino says Renteria is not yet signed.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:29 PM EST (#8818) #
I still can't get my head around why intelligent Jays fans want to throw 9-10mil a year at Matt Clement. This is a 30 year old pitcher that has had one good year. In that year he had a 4.50 ERA away from Wrigley; all of his games will be away from Wrigley if he signs with the Jays. Sign him to Batista's contract? Absolutely. 9 million bucks a year, though? Vomit.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:32 PM EST (#8819) #
all of his games will be away from Wrigley if he signs with the Jays.

That's not true. During one of the games between June 6th and 8th he'll be AWESOME!
Gitz - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:33 PM EST (#8820) #
Assuming Renteria signs with the Sox, here's an amusing quote.

"I like to play on a winning team like Boston, St. Louis or any team that has the opportunity to win,'' he was quoted as saying. His decision came down to the two pennant winners, and he said the Red Sox were "more interested in my playing for them."

These guys crack me up! Yeah, I'm sure the Cardinals had no interest in Renteria playing for them. Of course, "less interested" really means "less money, for fewer years." My kingdom for some candor.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:35 PM EST (#8821) #
My bad, I didn't realize the Jays were facing the Cubs this year. That's pretty cool.

Also, I suppose Clement has had two good years. But I still hope JP uses the money more wisely.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:38 PM EST (#8822) #
When I get my Blue Jays Schedule Fridge Magnet on opening day, if I see a lite blue dot next to any games between the 6th and 8th of June.... I'm gonna hurt someone.
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:46 PM EST (#8823) #
That's not true. During one of the games between June 6th and 8th he'll be AWESOME!

Here's a tip to those of you planning a Chicago road trip (like me) to see our boys in blue: buy your tickets THE DAY THEY GO ON SALE over the internet.
I've tried to buy tickets for games at Wrigley before. Pretty much any game during the summer months will be sold out within the first two or 3 days. I checked the Cubs website, and they said to check back in late January for single-game ticket sales.
For those of you who do decide to go to Chicago, we'll have to start up a thread so all us bauxites can mee at the Cubby Bear for a drink before the games.

Grand Funk out.
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:47 PM EST (#8824) #
When I get my Blue Jays Schedule Fridge Magnet on opening day, if I see a lite blue dot next to any games between the 6th and 8th of June.... I'm gonna hurt someone.

Blue dot?
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:54 PM EST (#8825) #
For those of you who never got your big ass magnet last year telling you the Blue Jays schedule and brodcast schedule:

A Red Dot means tune in to TSN to see this game
A White Dot means tune in to Sportsnet
A lite blue dot means you're %$*%(@ screwed over and you cant see the game.... the scourge of my day.

we'll have to start up a thread

Uh oh... I've got a crazy idea brewing again. Anyone here work in the travel industry? I smell one of my dreams comming to fruition.... CHEER CLUB ROAD TRIP!!
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:58 PM EST (#8826) #
Since I can't seem to locate a Jays schedule for next year, can someone tell me when the Jays will be in Seattle? I would love to go down to SafeCo one of these days...I'd prefer to go watch the Jays there though.
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 03:58 PM EST (#8827) #
A lite blue dot means you're %$*%(@ screwed over and you cant see the game.... the scourge of my day.

Every single Cubs game is broadcast on WGN, so you shouldn't have a problem.

Uh oh... I've got a crazy idea brewing again. Anyone here work in the travel industry? I smell one of my dreams comming to fruition.... CHEER CLUB ROAD TRIP!!

I'll be there with a few friends, regardless. Any sort of group discount would be more than welcomed.

Grand Funk out.
_bird droppings - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:01 PM EST (#8828) #
I am in Jobu.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:02 PM EST (#8829) #
Every single Cubs game is broadcast on WGN, so you shouldn't have a problem.

This assumes I have WGN.... which I do not.

I'll be there with a few friends, regardless. Any sort of group discount would be more than welcomed.

Maybe if someone here who has an inside in the travel biz can get us a good deal on a charter bus and some GTA Bauxites can go down to the Windy Apple and support the boys in blue....and white....and black....and silver....and grey (gray). Figure several months should be enough heads up time.

PS. The blue jays shedule is up at bluejays.com
_Caino - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:02 PM EST (#8830) #
From Pro Sports Daily, apparently the Mets are gunnin' for King Carlos. Another team I really wouldn't mind him playing for. The article was
Reg. Req. so here's the excerpt.

"According to two baseball executives, the Mets have now set slugging first baseman Carlos Delgado as their primary target, putting together an offer in excess of $40 million over three years, hoping to secure a bat to anchor the lineup and filling the team's biggest hole on defense."

40 over three? That's chump change.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:05 PM EST (#8831) #
I am in Jobu.

BOO YEAH!!! We got 2 people! (including me). And I can drag my loser friends in too!

This thing might have legs yet.... keep comming with any interest and if there's enough I might make it more official over at bluejayscheerclub.com.
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:12 PM EST (#8832) #
BOO YEAH!!! We got 2 people! (including me). And I can drag my loser friends in too!

This thing might have legs yet.... keep comming with any interest and if there's enough I might make it more official over at bluejayscheerclub.com.


I already have at least 3, and potentially 4 interested.
We've been talking about it since the day the schedule came out.

Grand Funk out.
_lurker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:14 PM EST (#8833) #
Trouble in Washington ....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1946925
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:17 PM EST (#8834) #
I already have at least 3, and potentially 4 interested.

Are they in the GTA or just gonna meet you in Chicago?

My dream is to try and hook up a charter bus for as cheap as possible with rabid blue jay fans and haul down there. Think the bus from "Euro-Trip" only covered with Blue Jay insignia rather than Man U.

PS. Two more GTA's interested, via email.

Doesn't Dr. Zarco live down there?
_Mick - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:25 PM EST (#8835) #
Anyone here work in the travel industry?

Yup. Contact me (COMN) and I will hook you up with someone in our group sales department.

Mick Doherty
Manager, Online Public Relations
AMR Corporation (American Airlines, American Eagle, TWA)
_Rob - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:27 PM EST (#8836) #
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/schedule/tentative_2005_season_schedule.jsp
It was great - they had me snookered 100%, until the reveal.

Oh, that documentary was brilliant satire. Very good.

can someone tell me when the Jays will be in Seattle?

May 30-June 1. Monday-Wednesday series, all 3 games at 7:05 Pacific. COMN for full schedule -- tentative, of course.
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:28 PM EST (#8837) #
Are they in the GTA or just gonna meet you in Chicago?

All GTA'ers
_Dan - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:29 PM EST (#8838) #
I'd be up for this road trip...you guys should take a trip down to Lynx Stadium in Ottawa to see the Lynx vs the SkyChiefs. I could get you a great rate for the game(s)
_jsoh - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:31 PM EST (#8839) #
Typical. June 6-8 isnt a weekend.

*sigh*

The life of a wage slave is full of ups and downs. But mostly downs.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:35 PM EST (#8840) #
Do me a favour Dan and email just so I can keep your info around for any future developments.

Dont worry Jsoh, weekends are more expensive anyways ;)
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:38 PM EST (#8841) #
Do me a favour Dan and email just so I can keep your info around for any future developments.

Jobu - let me know if you'd like some help pulling together details.
I have some experience running bus trips to Bills games, and lots of road trips to all the baseball cities within driving distance.

Grand Funk out
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:44 PM EST (#8842) #
Yeah GFR,

Drop me a line at the previous messages' email address and we can talk things out. Waiting for a reply from the ever so helpful Mick as well.
_Mick - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:49 PM EST (#8843) #
Jobu, in case you read this before you check your mail ... check your mail. I need a tiny bit more info from you to complete the Sales Lead Form.
_Ron - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 04:58 PM EST (#8844) #
Next season I might be heading down to Seattle to watch the Jays and then head to Toronto to watch the Jays.

I wanted to cheer on the Jays in Seattle last season but my schedule didn't permit it.

It all depends on my schedule and to see if I have the dough to take a vacation in Toronto.
_G.T. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:09 PM EST (#8845) #
you guys should take a trip down to Lynx Stadium in Ottawa to see the Lynx vs the SkyChiefs.

I'd definitely second that recommendation. The ballpark -- calling it a stadium, as they do now, is a disservice IMO -- is a great place to see a game, and odds are that next year will be the team's last. (Of course I do say that every year... I'm extremely surprised they're back in 2005)

Tickets certainly are much easier to come by than they are at Wrigley!
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:13 PM EST (#8846) #
Tickets certainly are much easier to come by than they are at Wrigley!

Without a doubt, have to keep that in mind.

Thanks to the fingerwork of Mick, the First Annual Cheer Club Road Trip is laying down some serious groundwork.

Anyone at all remotley interested should drop me a line and I'll send out info or newsletters as more info comes in. Nothing's for certain yet.Thanks to all those who emailed already.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:21 PM EST (#8847) #
Depending on how things are come summer, I could be up for that trip. Probably not, but could be.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:26 PM EST (#8848) #
you guys should take a trip down to Lynx Stadium in Ottawa to see the Lynx vs the SkyChiefs

Hopefully this year there won't be snow on the ground before university exams end. I'd really like to see a Lynx game before I have to move away from the gorgeous city that is Ottawa.
Gitz - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:33 PM EST (#8849) #
Not Jays related, but the A's just picked up Keith Ginter from the Brewers, in exchange for Justin Lehr and Nelson Cruz. All-in-all, a nice pick-up for Oakland, considering they gave up nothing, though Ginter might be taxed if he's expected to play 140-plus games at second base.
_Jim - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 05:56 PM EST (#8850) #
I thought Lehr had a pretty promising arm, but maybe my mind is old and weak...
_R Billie - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:03 PM EST (#8851) #
Cruz also had a pretty impressive season for a guy that missed a year for whatever reason. I wouldn't call it a risk-free trade for the A's considering that Ginter is 28 already and 2004 for the first time he had that many at bats. It's a solid trade for a team that's trying to compete for a playoff spot in the short term though.
_greenfrog - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:11 PM EST (#8852) #
Sexson has apparently signed with Seattle.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8002573
_Paul D - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:14 PM EST (#8853) #
Mick, if you're still around.
I'm trying to organize a trip of about 20 to 30 people for Vegas in February.
Do you guys do that kind of thing too?
_Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:19 PM EST (#8854) #
Doesn't Dr. Zarco live down there?

I sure do! I've had June 6-8 circled on the ol' calendar for quite a while now, and I'll be going to at least 2 of the games (they're darn expensive). Probably the first two, since they're night games. That'd be awesome if you guys can mobilize and make it here, we'd have a blast. COMN for my email if anyone wants any info/ideas.
_greenfrog - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:19 PM EST (#8855) #
A question for discussion: at what point (ie, salary level) should the Jays "just say no" to Clement? My own opinion is that $27M for 3 years, including incentives, should be the ceiling. Even that amount makes me pretty damn nervous. I think $24M for 3 years would be more like it, though he's clearly been bid up beyond that point.
_Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:21 PM EST (#8856) #
Not sure what this means, but I heard a local update on the Clement stuff, and these teams were listed: Boston, Anaheim, Cleveland, and the WhiteSox. Curious omission of the Jays...
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:37 PM EST (#8857) #
A question for discussion: at what point (ie, salary level) should the Jays "just say no" to Clement?

Two years, 12 million, would be my ceiling.
_Ken - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:46 PM EST (#8858) #
I have to say I agree with Ryan Lind on this one. I'm hoping that the money goes towards a bat, rather than a pitcher who I don't see as being worth the money that reports have stated are being offered his way. I don't think the contracts being given to other pitchers in this years market should force the Jays to go out as splash their new found flexibility on Clement.
Yeah, sure, he would look great in the rotation but that's a strong point of this team at the moment- why put the pressure on Wells or Koskie batting cleanup when there's money to go out and get someone to do just that?
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:54 PM EST (#8859) #
Let me chime in that the Jays should not go beyond 21 million over 3 seasons to get Clement. He's a good, durable pitcher in the prime of his career with a decent K/W ratio, but I don't see him outperforming Dave Bush by a whole lot over the next three years. If we can get one more of our pitching prospects to graduate and become an effective starter, that should set us up with a nice rotation.
_garth - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 06:57 PM EST (#8860) #
I agree. How many more games would Clement win as a starter compared to Miguel Batista? At more than double the salary, is 2-4 wins worth it. With all the pitchers comming up in the system it doesn't make sense paying 9 million a year for a number 2 or 3 pitcher on a non-contending team.

Get a decent bat who can play dh and a little LF or 1B. Also, get a decent reliever who can either close or be a great setup man for speir.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 07:04 PM EST (#8861) #
"Wunderbar" is now on board.

You may return to your Clement debate.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 07:18 PM EST (#8862) #
Sorry, that's "Wunderbat".

PS. If anyone wants to laugh go to MLB.Com and look at the picture of Richie Sexson on the front page.
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 07:41 PM EST (#8863) #
I am now officially off of the Clement bandwagon. I won't be too upset if they sign him for less than 3/24 but I'd rather them give me Halladay-Lilly-Bush-Batista-Towers/mid season prospect, sign Steve Kline and Koch (combined 3 million), let Speier close, and use the remaining 7 or 8 million to trade for a bat (I say Negron and Rosario could land Wilkerson and I'd love to do it). If the rotoworld report about Johnson being had for a reliever that'd be worth it too (Ligtenberg, or Rosario, Chacin perhaps...) and sign a cheap injury insurance guy (Olderud, for example). There's nothing wrong going into the season with 3 or 4 million sitting around. If we contend, that would be huge at the deadline and if not, using it next year would be even better.
_Tyler - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 07:50 PM EST (#8864) #
There's nothing wrong going into the season with 3 or 4 million sitting around.

This is completely true, and utterly misunderstood, in every sport. If the team turns out to be a contender, which is unlikely, but it's unlikely regardless of whether you spend the money or not, you've suddenly got the budget to add a 6-8 million dollar piece at midseason.

This is not a good time to be making investments in players, because the market is so hot. Come July, when some teams realize that they're out of it, there are far better deals available to be had.
_Ryan B. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:20 PM EST (#8865) #
Is Lilly a free agent at the end of this season (2005) or the end of next season (2006)?
_Ryan C - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:21 PM EST (#8866) #
Lilly is a free agent at the end of '05 but the Jays have his arbitration rights so he could be back for '06 if Im not mistaken.
_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:25 PM EST (#8867) #
Im just waiting for Ryan A to show up...
_garth - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:28 PM EST (#8868) #
survey time:

If all things remain the same on the current Jay squad how many games would you anticipate clement to win; how many for batista

my guess would be clement at 12, batista at 11.

(if you add a bat and a closer what would that take batista's number too?)
Pistol - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:33 PM EST (#8869) #
Lilly is a free agent at the end of '05 but the Jays have his arbitration rights so he could be back for '06 if Im not mistaken.

Yes, the Jays control his rights for 2006 (if they choose to).
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:34 PM EST (#8870) #
Lilly is a free agent at the end of '05 but the Jays have his arbitration rights so he could be back for '06 if Im not mistaken.

This statement is self-contradictory. Either Lilly will be a free agent or the Jays will hold his arbitration rights. I think he'll be short of 6.0 years of service, thus making him arbitration eligible at the conclusion of 2005.

The Jays can sign him to a 1-year or multi-year contract, non-tender him (in which case he becomes a free agent) or offer him arbitration for 2006.
_Ryan C - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:38 PM EST (#8871) #
Robert,

Thanks for the clarification, that is what I meant I guess I just didnt do a very good job of explaining it. The Jays can re-sign him or offer him arbitration, if they dont he becomes a free agent.
_MikeyD - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:48 PM EST (#8872) #
Whats this O-dawg and Rosario for Ben Sheets , is it done?
_MikeyD - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:49 PM EST (#8873) #
Some guy on fanhome, says its a done deal.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:52 PM EST (#8874) #
I haven't heard anything. I'd just consider it a rumour until you see a source. Doesn't mean it's false; I'd just wait for a source.

That's a pretty big trade, if it happens.
_Moffatt - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 08:57 PM EST (#8875) #
Generally speaking, I wouldn't put any stock in rumours you read on an Internet site (including this one), as people can say pretty much whatever they want without penalty.

This Just In
Alex Rios traded to the Phillies for Ryan Howard

See? :)
_MikeyD - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 09:04 PM EST (#8876) #
Sorry guys, I think the guy on Fanhome Blue jays board is just a troll causing trouble.
_the shadow - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 09:13 PM EST (#8877) #
Yipes, the Sexton contract reportedly is 50m for 4 years, I can see the big smile on the face of Carlos right now
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 09:31 PM EST (#8878) #
I think it would be best if posters refrain from relaying rumours of trades or signings except from the most reputable media sources. Even then, it should be clearly stated that X newspaper or Y columnist reports that etc.
_Mike Forbes - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 09:45 PM EST (#8879) #
I think rumors should be passed on.. It gives us something to talk about when times get boring in the offseason.

By the way, if that O-Dog/Rosario for Sheets ever went down, i'd be the happiest baseball fan in Canada.
_jason - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:14 PM EST (#8880) #
Ya, but what about the O-Dog, Koskie comercials. Those onyl would last for a day.
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:17 PM EST (#8881) #
I will go so far as to say that rumours posted as if they are fact (i.e. without the exact source cited) should and probably will be deleted.

This kind of stuff ...

Whats this O-dawg and Rosario for Ben Sheets , is it done?

...

Some guy on fanhome, says its a done deal.


does not belong at Batter's Box.
_MikeyD - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:23 PM EST (#8882) #
Wow, Robert ! Sorry ! I just came here, to get some clarification. Then I simply stated it was false, moments later with an apology. It was just a rumour from another forum, that was false. No need to be abrupt my friend. Next time, I will put in a source or not discuss possible rumours at all.
_Rich Hacker - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:35 PM EST (#8883) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6099
Matt Clement will make his decision by Thursday of Friday according to rotoworld. Looks like the Angels improved on their original offer.
_Tom L - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:35 PM EST (#8884) #
Wow there is no need to jump all over someone because they made a simple and honest mistake. Maybe a possible solution to the problem of people posting unsourced rumors would be to create a page for UNCONFIRMED rumors. This would solve all the apparant grief which these unsourced rumors seem to cause certain posters.
_Nick S - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:40 PM EST (#8885) #
Toronto is believed to have offered $25 million over three years

News of this offer is from mlb.com from the rotoworld link Rich provided a couple posts earlier. I wonder how much higher they are willing to go?
_Braby21 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:41 PM EST (#8886) #
I don't see a point to making a whole entire thread for unconfirmed rumours, doesn't make much sense to me.

I think that if you say where the rumour came from, you're really doing no wrong. Especially when he came here to confirm a yes or no from the ppl who would know best. I don't feel he didnt anything wrong, unless we had 10 of these a day, but this happens almost never.
_Vernons Biggest - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:46 PM EST (#8887) #
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=MLB&storyid=7952
Just a side note, Einar Dias signed with the Cards. COMN
_Ron - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:48 PM EST (#8888) #
I'm not sure I wanna spend 25mil/3 years on Clement unless the Jays expand the budget.

The Jays need a bat a lot more than a SP.
_greenfrog - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:51 PM EST (#8889) #
Don't know why, but I have a feeling Clement will sign with one of the bigger-market teams--say Anaheim or Boston. Maybe it's just because this is usually what happens, but I think they'll outbid the Jays. Still, I'm hoping.
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:51 PM EST (#8890) #
I know that new people post all the time, and so are not aware that we've addressed this issue many many times in the past.

I don't think I was rude or abusive in my response; I was simply trying to relay what our policy is.

This ...

"Matt Clement will make his decision by Thursday of Friday according to rotoworld. Looks like the Angels improved on their original offer."

is perfectly acceptable as far as reporting rumours goes. Rotoworld, while making occasional errors, relies exclusively on other published reports and always cites the source. As such they are considered reputable; some guy on an internet message board making stuff up, isn't.

I think it is important for everyone to know what our policy is. Right now we are in a sort of limbo but shortly we will be moving to a registration system. Hopefully, all these issues will be addressed in an easily-accesible FAQ type page.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:53 PM EST (#8891) #
The Jays need a bat a lot more than a SP.

I agree Ron. I wouldn't lose any sleep if Batista and Towers were both in the rotation next year, and if Batista struggles move him to the pen and bring up Chacin. What does Towers have to do to guarantee a job every year?
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:55 PM EST (#8892) #
Tom L and Braby21,

Please direct all suggestions as to how this site should operate to one of the Roster members' e-mail addresses (see left sidebar).
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:56 PM EST (#8893) #
Hm. If the Jays are willing to spend 8mil on Clement, and 6mil on Koskie...I wonder if they would have been better off just spending that 14mil on Delgado. No guarantees Carlos would accept, of course, but I'm not too sure what I would prefer.

Would you prefer Clement & Koskie, or Delgado?
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:58 PM EST (#8894) #
Clement and Koskie add up to more value, I think, than Delgado going forward.
_Braby21 - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 10:59 PM EST (#8895) #
I'd prefer Clement & Koskie personally.

_Jobu - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:16 PM EST (#8896) #
Give it some time and I think Koskie could become Toronto's Baseball-Wendel Clark.
Pistol - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:19 PM EST (#8897) #
When something official happens it's pretty easy to find and shows up in a thread in these parts pretty quickly.

If there was a rumor out there it's very unlikely that anyone around here could confirm or deny the accuracy of it anyway.
_Ron - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:21 PM EST (#8898) #
Assuming the Jays have around 9 mil left to spend on FA's I would rather see a combo of Kline/Koch/Alou than Clement/Koch.

JP is taking a serious run at Clement and assuming the payroll doesn't expand I don't know how he will get another run producing bat and bullpen help.

What makes it difficult is that I don't know what big bats are available through trade and what the asking price is. But I'm sure JP and his staff have done their due dillegence and hopefully the result of whatever else they do results in a better ballclub next season.
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, December 15 2004 @ 11:52 PM EST (#8899) #
"If they really want him, it's likely the Angels and Red Sox will have the top offers on the board when all is said and done. The Dodgers, Indians, White Sox, Blue Jays and Diamondbacks are also in the running. Clement is scheduled to meet with the Dodgers tomorrow."

From Rotoworld... whats the over/under on time until the Durham Bulls and Yomiuri Giants have made an offer to Clement? I say 36 hours...
_Braby21 - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 12:42 AM EST (#8900) #
According to our pals at Rotoworld

Wright and Pavano's deals are almost finalized, the financial details are below...

"Jaret Wright will get his three-year, $21 million contract from the Yankees, but the third year will be voidable if he suffers a shoulder injury."

"Carl Pavano will receive $39.95 million over four years with an option for a fifth rear at $13 million under the terms of his deal with the Yankees."
Lucas - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 01:59 AM EST (#8901) #
"Carl Pavano will receive $39.95 million over four years with an option for a fifth rear at $13 million under the terms of his deal with the Yankees."

Best typo ever.
_Mike Forbes - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 02:03 AM EST (#8902) #
Does anyone think JP might try and aquire AJ Burnett if we fail to land Clement? One thing we have that New York and to a lesser extent Boston, don't is a deep farm system. Maybe a package of Rosario, Gross and Diaz could get it done.
_Wayne H. - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 03:10 AM EST (#8903) #
It's time to start looking very closely at the arbitration eligible players, both hitters and pitchers, who might be non-tendered.

There might be some good trade possibilities within that group, especially if a team thinks they will not offer arbitration. They can at least salvage something.

They Jays might find some real bargains from that group.

Where is that list of arbitration eligibles that was published earlier on Da Box? If I recall correctly, there were some very interesting names on that list.

It might be worth a tender/non-tender thread itself as that December 20 date is arriving very soon now.
Named For Hank - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 07:51 AM EST (#8904) #
Jeff Blair was just on the Fan. He said he spoke to J.P. last night and that J.P.'s gut told him that the Jays were no longer in the running for Clement.
_Jim Acker - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 08:03 AM EST (#8905) #
Jeff Blair was just on the Fan. He said he spoke to J.P. last night and that J.P.'s gut told him that the Jays were no longer in the running for Clement.

Not good news. Did Blair explain why? Are the Jays out of it because of money? and did JP mention what other options are available?
Pistol - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 08:50 AM EST (#8906) #
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2004/12/16/784740-sun.html
A few nuggets in the Sun today:

"If that's the case (they don't get Clement) we'll put (Miguel) Batista back into the rotation and use our money to go after another bat and more help for the bullpen," Ricciardi said.

So who'll close now if they don't sign somebody new?

"We'll look at different guys," Ricciardi said. "We'll look at (Justin) Speier, (Jason) Frasor (who in 2004 was 17-for-19 in save situations) or maybe look at (Brandon) League in that capacity as well."

Ricciardi said the Jays had no interest in reacquiring designated hitter Josh Phelps who on Monday was designated for assignment by the Indians.
_NDG - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 08:53 AM EST (#8907) #
Since I can't find the last Boxing Out thread (hint), I'd just like to let everyone know that I was present for yet another victory for the Raps last night.

Raps record when I'm present: 3-0
Raps record when I'm not there: 5-18

I know, I know, many of you feel this is just coincidence. But I believe I've controlled all variables and the result is the same.

I've sat in the Box, baseline and behind the nets. All victories. Therefore where I sit does not seem to matter.

I've driven and parked twice and taken the subway once. All victories. I don't know how much more extensive I can be.

My next game in person is Jan 7 vs. the Bucks. A victory for the Raps? Book it. I haven't been so confident in anything since I consulted JoJo before my Partial Differential Equations exam 10 years ago. Granted that didn't work out so well, but I felt confident.

Feel free to use this information as you wish, and thank me later.
_Jim Acker - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 08:56 AM EST (#8908) #
My next game in person is Jan 7 vs. the Bucks. A victory for the Raps? Book it.

Any chance you'll wing it to Indiana for tonights game?
_Grand Funk Rail - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:14 AM EST (#8909) #
Jeff Blair was just on the Fan. He said he spoke to J.P. last night and that J.P.'s gut told him that the Jays were no longer in the running for Clement.

Worst.....news.....ever.....

Grand Funk out.
_Marc - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:15 AM EST (#8910) #
http://baseballguru.blogspot.com/
I have a listed of arbitration eligible players (players will become available on Monday) if anyone is interested. It's compiled completely by myself so there may be a couple people missing. COMN for the lists that are on my newbie baseball blog that is still in the infancy stages.
_MatO - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:23 AM EST (#8911) #
If it was 2 or 3 teams only then I think the Jays had a chance for Clement. But once it gets to 6 or 7 teams the Jays really have no hope on the financial side. There's some serious overpaying happening this off-season and sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make.
_Jordan - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:32 AM EST (#8912) #
If Clement hasn't made up his mind by now, he's probably not coming to Toronto. His post-winter-meetings tour says to me that he's looking for options beyond those offered to him last week. The fact he's meeting with the Diamondbacks, in particular, indicates that either he's looking for the top possible dollar, or he's using the Snakes as leverage to jack up someone else's price. In neither event do I think he's going to sign for 3/$24M, so the Jays had best look elsewhere.

From my perspective, that's too bad. It's true that the Jays would be buying at the top of the market if they signed Clement right now, and it's true that he's a B-level, not A-level pitcher. But it's also true that slotting him behind Halladay and in front of Lilly and Bush would've been terrific. And he's one of the better B-level pitchers around, who records most of his outs by strikeout or groundball -- perfect for this team.

I know the Jays have a lot of great pitching talent closing in on the major-league level -- but great pitching talent, like Dustin McGowan, can and does flame out unexpectedly. Ask the Mariners, who several years ago might reasonably have expected to be starting a Ryan Anderson-Rafael Soriano-Joel Piniero-Freddy Garcia front four today. You can never have too much pitching. I further don't think there's $8M worth of value left on the free-agent market at this point, including in the bullpen, where Steve Kline leaves me feeling underwhelmed.

But c'est la vie: the Jays made an excellent pitch to Clement and can't be blamed for not trying their best; going much beyond 3/$24M would've meant that 40% of their payroll was tied up in two guys who only play every fifth day, which is very likely not a good use of scarce resources for this club.

Currently, this is what the lineup-in-progress looks like:

RH

Adams SS
Hudson 2B
Wells CF
Koskie 3B
??? DH
Catalanotto LF
Hinske 1B
Rios RF
Myers C

LH

Johnson LF
Hudson 2B
Wells CF
??? DH
Koskie 3B
Rios RF
Hinske 1B
Zaun C
Adams SS

That lineup is very weak against lefthanders and not exactly booming against righties either. Although it's clear that this team won't win many games by scoring 7 or 8 runs, they're still going to need more firepower than that just to be competitive. Suffice to say, I don't think Frank Menechino is the full-time answer at DH. A bat like Alou's would fit nicely into that DH slot, if he came cheap and short-term.

What this team really needs, frankly, is a major step forward from Alex Rios and a bounceback to respectability by Eric Hinske. If those two guys play at their 2004 levels in 2005, then it won't much matter who's DHing or who's in the rotation.
_Prisoner of Ham - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:33 AM EST (#8913) #
http://sports.mainetoday.com/pirates/stories/041216carlostosca.shtml
COMN for a piece on Carlos Tosca, in which he passes the buck for last year's problems and implies Ricciardi is a hypocritical control freak.
_Mike in CT - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:58 AM EST (#8914) #
Interesting comments by Tosca. People skills are definitely not one of Ricciardi's strengths. The young crop of GMs these days seem to be glorified fantasy team GMs where they don't realize the players and managers they deal with are actually people too. One of Gillick's strong points was how he made everyone in the organization feel welcome and part of something special. It wouldn't hurt J.P. to treat people with more respect.
_the shadow - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 09:58 AM EST (#8915) #
While it would have been nice to have Clement in the Jay's rotation, it was obvious in the last few days it was escalating out of the Jays price range, in a way this might be for the best as they can now address their needs at other positions with the money now on hand, a good RH bat and some addition to the BP, and who knows there still might be another decent starter still out there at a more reasonable price. I for one am glad they didn,t get carried away in the bidding for Clement and had enough sense to withdraw from it
Pistol - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 10:02 AM EST (#8916) #
If Clement hasn't made up his mind by now, he's probably not coming to Toronto.

From my perspective, that's too bad. And he's one of the better B-level pitchers around, who records most of his outs by strikeout or groundball -- perfect for this team.


I can't say I'm too disappointed if Clement doesn't sign. That'd be a pretty sizable commitment for someone who doesnít have a great performance record (relative to what heíd be paid).

When looking through Clementís stats I noticed that there was a fairly significant difference in his performance in day games and night games (about 1 run on his ERA). I donít know if day games lead to better performances, or if itís just a fluke, but the number of day games heíll play going forward will be a lot less (from approximately 24 day/ 12 night to 12 day/24 night).

I further don't think there's $8M worth of value left on the free-agent market at this point.

What I hope doesn't happen is that the Jays spend money because they have it. And what would be worse is giving out multiple years to players that aren't worth it.

1 year at $4 million for Alou? Great. 2 or more years? Please pass.

The best option for the Jays at this point would probably be through a trade where a team is looking to shed money (like the Lee deal with the Brewers).
Named For Hank - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 10:05 AM EST (#8917) #
Not good news. Did Blair explain why? Are the Jays out of it because of money? and did JP mention what other options are available?

Blair said that J.P. told him last night that while Clement's agent said the Jays were still in the running, J.P.'s gut told him that they weren't.
_GregH - Thursday, December 16 2004 @ 04:40 PM EST (#8918) #
piece on Carlos Tosca, in which he passes the buck for last year's problems and implies Ricciardi is a hypocritical control freak.

The comments made by Tosca echo those he made while being interviewed by Chuck Swirsky on The Fan 590 two weeks ago. Swirsky (no fan of Ricciardi) egged Tosca on in being critical of JP and in coming just short of accusing JP of using him as little more than a puppet.

In that interview and again in the linked article, Tosca comes across as blaming everything on injuries, despite the fact that the Jays were woeful before the injuries and again after them. In neither was the question of bullpen management (in my view one of the most important factors in winning games) mentioned. I, for one, find it hard to believe that JP was telling Tosca which BP pitchers to use in each game this past season.

I liked Tosca and thought he did a good job in difficult circumstances in 2002 and, to a lesser extent, in 2003 (Could the Jays have won more games in 2003 with better BP management? Maybe.)

I would feel better about him now if he had just taken a somewhat higher position and admitted that he was a rookie Major Legaue manager saddled with devastating injuries.
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