Them Reds be active!

The Twins traded right-hander Kyle Lohse to the Reds for minor league right-hander Zach Ward.

This is posted here just to give us all something to kick around while waiting for the deals. A co-worker of mine suggested this one to me: what would it take to get Michael Young from the Rangers?

One, he'd solve the shortstop problem immediately. Two, he's incredibly cheap ($3.5M in 2007, $4M club option for 2008). Third, if he's supposedly the biggest reason why Vernon Wells would decamp for Texas, remove that problem by making him Wells' teammate right now. A Jays' lineup with Young batting second would give even the Yanks and Red Sox offences a run for their money.

Now, the Rangers are as eager to deal Young as the Jays are to trade Wells -- he's their best player, the cornerstone around which the team is built, and even less expensive than Vernon. I frankly don't see them doing it. But Texas is tied for 9th in league ERA (the Jays are 8th), and their lineup even without Young is pretty fearsome. If the Jays called with an offer of McGowan, League, Yates and Adams, I expect the Rangers would at least listen.

That's the theory, anyway. As I say, the chances of it actually happening are slim to none. But if you were Ricciardi, and you were given to understand Texas would part with Young for a passel of your best young pitchers, would you do it?

BB, that's not quite true. Living here in DFW, I can tell you that Jon Daniels would at least listen to an offer of Halladay, Ryan and Hill for Young and, say, a minor league pitcher not considered a future potential ace.

But yeah, not terribly likely to happen.

Mick, would it really take that much? Texas is in a similar position with Young as Toronto is with Wells -- they only have control over him for another couple of years, and then they'll certainly lose him to free agency or bust the bank trying to keep him. If an offer of a lot of good young talent came in (perhaps not the offer I suggested, but not the Jays franchise, as you suggested) this winter, wouldn't Daniels have to ask himself if the Rangers would be better off with Young for two more years or all those young pitchers for six?

I ask this not knowing much about the Rangers' system -- if they have good young pitchers coming up about whom they feel confident, then they wouldn't feel the need to trade Young away. But if not, well, pitching has long been the franchise's achilles heel, and if dealing Young could help solve it, why not?

Of course I was exaggerating, but not much -- Young isnot only the #2 AL guy in hits (behind Ichiro, of course) but clearly the team leader in most coneiveable ways. I really do think Daniels would start the conversation with Halladay, if only to scare off the Jays.

The DVD boys -- Danks is probably the best and closest, and his name has come up recently in a three-way rumor involving Tejada to Houston and Roy Oswalt ending up in Texas, so that should give you some idea of how good the Rangers at least think these kids are. The Mets can tell stories of Wilson, Pulsipher and Isringhausen, though WIP isn't as cool a nickname as DVD.

Besides, if the Jays paid ransom to reacquire Young, could you really stomach the inevitable re-hashing of the Loaiza deal that would last for ... oh, forever?

Michael Young's contract expires after 2007--the same year as Vernon's. Even if the Jays could make that trade, JP and Rogers would have to pull a miracle to be able to keep them both here past 2007.

Now that I think about it, if they choose to sign Lee long-term, and then have to do the same for Michael Young, all while trying to bolster their rotation through free agency, they will have to have alot of spare cash to be able to sign a potential 15 million dollar player centerfielder.

I don't really buy into they hype about Young.  His offence, while very good for a shortstop, is overrated in my opinion. Looking at his career progression, 2005 screams career year to me (and all his numbers have been put up in Arlington, mind you):

2002, Age 25 - .262/.308/.382 (OPS: 690)
2003, Age 26 - .306/.339/.446 (OPS: 785)
2004, Age 27 - .313/.353/.483 (OPS: 836)
2005, Age 28 - .331/.385/.513 (OPS: 898)
2006, Age 29 - .312/.355/.454 (OPS: 809)

Rod Black's endless gushing over Young aside, I'm not impressed with Young's defence (and I think that most defensive numbers agree, IIRC).  He'd certainly be a fine addition to the Blue Jays, but I think his value is exagerrated.

Besides, if the Jays paid ransom to reacquire Young, could you really stomach the inevitable re-hashing of the Loaiza deal that would last for ... oh, forever?

Meh ... on Gord Ash's head be it. I've long since stopped worrying about that deal -- kudos to Texas for making a great trade.

Michael Young's contract expires after 2007--the same year as Vernon's.

Young's contract has a 2008 club option for $4M, which the Rangers will obviously pick up. Frankly, if he's as valuable to the franchise as Mick says, the Rangers should tear up his deal in the off-season and offer a brand-new extension at less than expected 2008 FA market value, if possible.

As for making that kind of deal from the Jays' strategic standpoint, it would obviously be in the context of a going-for-it all-decision -- no way you can keep both Wells and Young long-term. And really, the booty they'd need to send to Texas would probably kibosh their chances regardless. It's fun to think about acquiring Young, but it's pitching the Jays need, not more offence.

But if a deal like that somehow netted you a World Series in that window of opportunity, then of course it's worth it, no matter if you lose both Wells and Young later on.

Someone tell me why the Loaiza trade was so kick-them-while-they're-down for the Jays? I wasn't following them that closely back then.

It wasn't. Young was a mediocre prospect and Loazia gave the Jays great return the year they acquired him (2000) - A 3.62 ERA over 14 starts, 92 innings, good for an ERA+ of 137. It's what happened after that that makes Jays fans all bitter about the whole thing.

First, El Gordo decided it would be a good idea to give Loazia a fat extension.

Second, Loaiza was bad in 2001 and terrible in 2002.

Third, the Rangers stuck with Michael Young and he rewarded them with a ridiculous growth curve. Seriously, look at the numbers Justin posted above and the ages with them. Michael Young from age 25 to 28 went through the kind of growth curve you'd optimistically hope for from a top prospect from ages 22 through 25.

Fourth, Loaiza left town with much good riddance, only to turn in a Cy Young contending season for the White Sox.

If Gord hadn't extended Loaiza and if Young had developed at all normally, you'd never hear about that trade.

I'm not as enthusiastic about this from a Pirates perspective.  Nady's 27, so this is likely as good as he's going to get, and his career OBP is .322.  Add in his defense and he's not a championship-quality player and isn't likely to become one.  Perez isn't likely to turn it around in Pittsburgh, but he has value (as does Hernandez, especially with the price we've seen for arms); the Pirates would have been better off dealing Hernandez separately for whatever they could get and if dealing Perez was necessary, to try to get a similar gifted but stalled young pitcher from another organization.

Nady, at least, is something, and will help the '07 Pirates be not as awful as the '06 version, which is something.

Walker for a PTBNL (apparently the Cubs are still going to pay him, I heard?) is a nothing deal.  The Padres must be disappointed that their potential Ensberg deal fell through, because Walker looks to me like another roll of loaded dice, no more likely to work out than Castilla or Blum or Bellhorn did.

In the last two years, here's who has played third base for San Diego:

1. Sean Burroughs
2. Damian Jacksom
3. Xavier Nady (hello again!)
4. Mark Loretta
5. Manny Alexander
6. Rob Fick
7. Geoff Blum
8. Joe Randa
9. Vinny Castilla
10. Mark Bellhorn
11. Apparently, Todd Walker

The Padres really need to sit down over the winter and identify a young third baseman, and trade for him or acquire him with the goal of giving him the job next season.  This revolving door of Whoever Is Available And Once Had A Good Season is killing them.

The Rangers have been making so deals I can't keep their roster straight.  After the Nix/Mench for Carlos Lee deal, they picked up Miguel Ojeda, traded Bryan Corey to the Red Sox, and now this.  They were involved in talks for Tejada, for Lieber, for Lidge, for Westbrook.  Last I heard, Jon Daniels was down at Staples trying to swing a deal of a Adam Eaton signed jockstrap for a package of name tags that he can distribute around the clubhouse.

Heh ... the Padres get Oliver Perez back? Now if only they can find a way to reacquire Jason Bay.

Is that five trades in three days by Texas!?  Wow.

If Linebrink is really going to the Mets, that's a pretty good deal for them.  Bell's OK, but Linebrink and Hernandez are a nice return for him and Nady.

I don't even see how that's possible.  Everyone's been jocking Littlefield because he was asking the moon for Wilson.  Now he deals him at the last second for Shawn Chacon?  What a #%^&#%^& tool.

Becoming a Pirates fan after the death of the Expos was the worst notion I ever had.  Between this and the Jays succumbing on this roadtrip, I @$&)@%$&*(%ing  hate baseball right now.

@$%^@%$&  @#$^  bloody  !#$%!#$^#!$

Making the case that Sean Casey is a more valuable first baseman than Chris Shelton takes some creative statistical work.

Nah. Jimmy Leyland won flags with Orlando Merced, Sid Bream and Jeff Conine at 1B -- Casey is his kind of player. Shelton's K/BB of 100/32 falls way short of Casey's 22/23.

Not sure I like the move, really, but I think you can make a case(y) for it.

Starting first baseman Craig Wilson? Makes sense.

Nicely played by the D-Rays -- no wonder David Purcey didn't interest them. That franchise gets more interesting by the day.

Why are we hearing rumours at 4:30?

The Commissioner's Office is probably still sorting through all the 3:57 faxes. The ones from Texas alone would require a dedicated staff person.

That franchise gets more interesting by the day.

The Wreck Of The Medusa was interesting too.  Apparently the new sport in Tampa Bay is pissing off the front office in a naked attempt to get yourself traded the heck out of there.

The Devil Rays have never developed a pitcher of any consequence whatsoever, so they better hope that Guzman is a totally finished article or that their organization has really changed for the better.

Shealy for Affeldt/Bautista - I'm loath to call this a steal for Colorado but it's certainly not a rock-solid showing for KC, who had almost no young pitching to begin with and now have less.  They are also developing a logjam at the first base/DH positions, not for the first time in Kansas City.

At least Shealy will get his shot in the majors now.

Can someone please enlighten me on the value of Shawn Chacon to the Pirates? 

If we're really, really lucky the Pirates want to turn him back into a closer so he can take a run at the blown saves record.  The only problem with the plan is that the Pirates don't get enough leads for a closer to blow.

Sorry for the snark, but the more I think of this the more despondent I get.  I know Craig Wilson's not a great player (useful at best) but this is the worst trade of the year, easily (far, far worse than the Nationals-Reds deal) because there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that this could work out.  Shawn Chacon couldn't possibly return any value to the Pirates on his current deal that would merit paying anything for.  What's on my desk right now would have been a better package for Craig Wilson.

I'm surprised the Nats didn't jump at the Garza/Baker offer from the Twins. They better hope Soriano re-ups after this season.

I think this is nutty on the Nats' part.  They caught lightning in a bottle with Soriano, but that lightning is going to electrocute them if it forms the basis of a longterm deal.  I still don't think Soriano is all that great; a valuable guy, sure, but not worth giving $12 million a year to and forgoing the chance at Baker (who I like a lot) and Garza (who you could flip for something very useful).

We have no idea whether what the Blue Jays have could have landed Shealy - the Rockies might have out-and-out preferred Affeldt/Bautista, both of whom are pretty toolsy pitchers and might do well in another organization.

Shealy also wouldn't have had a role on this Jays team - he really can't play much, if any, defense (probably why the Rockies were looking to deal him in the first place - in Denver you must be able to play good defense, it's a necessity in that park).  So he'd be relegated to DH duty and drive good bats to the bench.  He's also not young (he will be 27 in a month), so he's not as much a "prospect" as a right-now type, someone who should hit for the next three years, probably put up an 825-850 OPS in the AL if he can successfully make the transition to the major league level.  I think he's a better hitter than Eric Hinske.

I don't think that's worth two good SP prospects.  Two "C+" types, sure.  Shealy has it in him to be an average-producing DH for the next three years, very inexpensively.  That has quite a lot of value.  But I don't (and the Rockies didn't) see Shealy as the kind of elite-level hitter who should command a high price.

I'm dissapointed that we didn't hear much trade talk about Craig Wilson coming to the Jays.

If I'm the Jays, Wilson is the perfect LHP masher to spell Hinske at DH.

I don't imagine that anyone thinks that a platoon DH (the lesser side of the platoon, too) adds a lot of value to a team that has an abundance of RHB to begin with, though.  Wilson just replicates Shea Hillenbrand's basic skills and Hillenbrand's skills were probably surplus to requirements anyway.

The Jays didn't do anything today, but I wonder if they won't still make a trade.  I wouldn't be surprised to see J.P. place Molina and Hinske on waivers.  With Rios/Johnson/Wells in the outfield and Catalanotto the primary left-handed hitting DH, Hinske is really not going to play.  Maybe J.P. can shed some of his salary.

Thoughts?

The Jays didn't do anything today, but I wonder if they won't still make a trade.  I wouldn't be surprised to see J.P. place Molina and Hinske on waivers.  With Rios/Johnson/Wells in the outfield and Catalanotto the primary left-handed hitting DH, Hinske is really not going to play.  Maybe J.P. can shed some of his salary.

Thoughts?

does he have one or two more years left?  i think you'd spare him the humiliation of waivers if nobody is going to pick him up.  better ask around first.  after all, he has been the consumate professional as he as learned to play a new position every year and play sporadically at times.

i wonder if the mets called about speier?

i wonder if the mets called about speier?

I can't believe that Oliver Perez got traded twice today! I certainly hope the Jays atleast made a feeler offer for him. The Mets wanted premier relief pitching(a la Hernandez, Linebrink) but in my mind Speier is better than both of them. Speier for Perez would have been hard to swallow for the 2006 campaign but considering Speier's going to be in pinstripes next year anyway, I would have loved to have Perez, who's going to be the next Chris Carpenter feel-good story.

If the Angels offered the same package with Wood instead of Aybar for Wells, would you do it?

I think that would be overpaying about three times over for Wells, though.  I like Vernon A LOT, but Tejada is twice the player he is.

I see your point; this makes the value to the Angels of Wells and Tejada closer.  It doesn't affect their market value, though... Wells is still a CF and Tejada is still a shortstop, even if the defensive "hole" that both would fill would be the third base slot.  The fact that the Angels would be more inclined to pay top dollar for Wells because of the existence of Figgins is a good catch, and you might get more for him on that basis, but Stoneman's pretty smart and would realize that he wouldn't need to overpay for Wells just because Figgins gives him flexibility.

It certainly would have been worth a shot, but I'm sure there's no way that the Jays get that package for Wells. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a team elects to place a player on waivers, and a team picks up that player, do they inherit the total remaining amount on his contract?

It probably goes against the grain to suggest this, but what about placing A.J. Burnett on waivers?

It probably goes against the grain to suggest this, but what about placing A.J. Burnett on waivers?

If the team had insuperable payroll problems, this might work.  Two problems - really bad optics for one, and royally pissing off a proud and sensitive player as well.  I don't see any major positives coming out of this, and a lot of potential negatives.