Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Hey, A Real Live Fake Game!

Jays dropped their Grapefruit League opener yesterday. The season is doomed!

David Purcey threw a scoreless inning, giving up just one hit. As a result he's the lead in the notes column.

The only real news to this point is that BJ Ryan appears to be on schedule with his rehab. I guessing Eric Eiland didn't face anyone like that in HS, let alone a lefty.

Posted by Pistol on Friday, February 29 2008 @ 08:18 AM EST.

Hey, A Real Live Fake Game! | 126 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

China fan - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 09:42 AM EST (#180420) #

These early games are watched so closely that the Associated Press actually reported in all earnestness that B. J. Ryan was pitching for the Jays against the Tigers yesterday.......
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/307938

Mike Green - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 10:03 AM EST (#180422) #

Peter Gammons has some nice things to say about the 08 Blue Jays.

ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 10:42 AM EST (#180423) #

Also in today's Star is an article on how the Jays determined that Bonds wasn't a good fit.

Basically, Perkins presents three main reasons they didn't do it:

They were concerned about the optics of pushing aside Thomas, the only active player that seemed to provide support to the Mitchell report, for Bonds and his steroids rumors
The impact that the field at Rogers would have on Bonds' body would probably not be good
Bonds and his disruptive force inside the locker room - the Jays think they're close so why mess with it

One point that surprises me is that it seems that they at least thought of having Thomas at first base ... I didn't think that was even remotely possible anymore.

Chuck - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 11:34 AM EST (#180426) #

I can imagine any number of teams talking themselves out of Bonds for similar reasons. Still, on paper, it's difficult to see how any team couldn't improve itself, in some cases dramatically, by adding Bonds.

Mike Green - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 12:05 PM EST (#180429) #

I missed this, but here's another reason for optimism for Blue Jay fans. The Jays were spectacularly unlucky with respect to cheap homers in 08, according to Hit Tracker.

92-93 - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 01:03 PM EST (#180431) #

Reason #4 - he isn't worth a first round draft pick.

Geoff - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 01:10 PM EST (#180432) #

Who was it that robbed Aaron Hill twice on consecutive nights last year of home runs on a leaping catch? Joey Gathright I believe.

The Jays were spectacularly unlucky with respect to leaping catches at the wall.

John Northey - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 01:49 PM EST (#180433) #

Bonds actually wasn't offered arbitration so he wouldn't cost anything but the bucks.

Still, I can see the Jays argument about Bonds not being able to survive the turf, and being 'stuck' with Frank Thomas at DH. If Stairs & Lind weren't here I thing the Jays would be more willing to risk Bonds having issues with the turf but unless a serious injury happens to Thomas I don't see it happening.

melondough - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 03:00 PM EST (#180434) #

Today I subscribed for MLB.TV Premium package (well worth the $119 for the year). Being in a baseball pool I from time to time enjoy watching my players hit live on my computer. The service also allows you to do many cool searches like the one I just did - searching for top plays by player name (I was going to do Hudson but I figured that would be too many so I passed on that). The one I just did I will share with you (hope this works!!!). Enjoy.

If this works and you are interested I can post Rolen's 2006 plays. Let me know.

2007 Scott Rolen highlights from 2007 (the first two are unbelievable):

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=592602&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive08/081607_slnmil_rolen_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/08/16/slnmlb-milmlb-1&mid=200708162152295&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=583353&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive07/070407_arisln_rolen_catch_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/07/04/arimlb-slnmlb-1&mid=200707042067542&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=589294&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive08/080107_slnpit_rolen_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/08/01/slnmlb-pitmlb-1&mid=200708012123836&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

2007 Eckstein & Rolen:

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=592444&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive08/081507_slnmil_roleneckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/08/15/slnmlb-milmlb-1&mid=200708152151110&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=600490&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive09/091907_phisln_eckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/09/19/phimlb-slnmlb-1&mid=200709192218981&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

2007 Eckstein (the first three are FANTASTIC!)

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=588409&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive07/072807_milsln_eckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/07/28/milmlb-slnmlb-1&mid=200707282114868&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=602408&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive09/092707_slnnyn_eckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/09/27/slnmlb-nynmlb-1&mid=200709282235534&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=567691&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive04/042407_cinsln_eckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/04/24/cinmlb-slnmlb-1&mid=200704241928401&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=597761&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive09/090707_slnari_eckstein_def_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/09/07/slnmlb-arimlb-1&mid=200709082195822&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=590070&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive08/080407_slnwas_eckstein_hr_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/08/04/slnmlb-wasmlb-1&mid=200708042130596&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=548144&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive04/040707_slnhou_eckstein_throw_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/04/07/slnmlb-houmlb-1&mid=200704071885549&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1

ayjackson - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 03:29 PM EST (#180435) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3270452&categoryId=2521705

Buster Olney's video blog from today. Watch out for the Jays!

melondough - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 04:09 PM EST (#180436) #

Buster Olney's video blog from today. Watch out for the Jays!

And he picks a familair face as the dark horse to win the Cy Young.....It's McGowan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3270645&categoryId=2521705&n8pe6c=2

BTW, Vegasinsider gives the Jays 10:1 odds to win the AL and make it to the World Series. This ranks sixth behind Boston, NYY, Detroit, LAA, & Clev. They are 20:1 to win the World Series - 12th best odds overall.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

JustinD - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 04:18 PM EST (#180438) #

And not only that, but Buster Olney also says we are a surprise team in this video...

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3268782&categoryId=2521705&n8pe6c=2

Dude loves Canada all of a sudden. He's got Tundra Fever? That's an awful joke and I apologize.

Chuck - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 04:34 PM EST (#180439) #

Dude loves Canada all of a sudden.

I think he's from Vermont. Probably had his first beer in Quebec.

John Northey - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 04:48 PM EST (#180440) #

For pure fun...
Dodgers to play at Coliseum

Now there would be a fun park to watch baseball in. 200 feet down the line with a 62 foot high wall (the Green Monster is 37 feet high). Look at the picture with the article and you'll see how nuts the outfield gets in spots. A fast centerfielder is a must!

To me this is part of the fun of baseball, a stadium can totally change strategy. No other sport has that to the same degree. Now, if they would just make new Yankee Stadium with the dimensions of the original one...295' down RF, 490' to CF. That would be fun.

Doug C - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 05:11 PM EST (#180441) #

Also in today's Star is an article on how the Jays determined that Bonds wasn't a good fit.

Apparently, according to Blair, J.P. dismisses that there was any thought given to Bonds.

John Northey - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 05:29 PM EST (#180442) #

Heh. I figure JP and gang are sick of rumours that they list under the 'give me a break' category.

While I would personally love Bonds to be here (hey, I like good hitters) it was obvious from how JP talks that he would have little interest. From how the media would go nuts, to the use of budget for an area that isn't a sore spot (Stairs/Lind cover the LH side of LF decently, Thomas is an everyday DH), to the fact that MLB seems to have a general rule out to avoid Bonds.

I suspect Mike Wilner didn't ask but stated to JP that ESPN said the Jays were looking at Bonds and before even getting to the 5 minute part JP went into his unprintable statment.

Ryan Day - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 06:04 PM EST (#180443) #

Bonds has all the drawbacks of a "buy low" project - health issues, attitude, possible legal problems - but without the "buy low" pricetag.

Chuck - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 06:37 PM EST (#180444) #

I wonder what Bonds' price tag really is. He may want $18M (or whatever) but supply and demand will drive any offers he might actually get.

scottt - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 06:39 PM EST (#180445) #

Assuming the contest in LF and 5th starter are like the Republican and Democrat primaries; Chacin won the first caucus and Reed Johnson had a nice showing in an uncontested state.

Incidentally, my votes go to Chacin and Johnson to win the whole thing.

Ryan Day - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 06:59 PM EST (#180446) #

Who knows what Bonds really wants, but I don't think he's got a lot of incentive to take a big pay cut. He's got a ton of cash, he's got the HR record, it's not like he's looking to sign another contract in 2009... He seems (speculation, yes) like he'd be perfectly happy drawing a line in the sand and retiring if no one meets his demands.

I suspect that if he plays in 2008, it'll be in a Clemens-like mid-year signing. Someone like the Yankees will get desperate and throw a lot of cash at him.

Jdog - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 07:02 PM EST (#180447) #

I'd love to see Chacin back to his old self and grab the 5th spot, mainly just because he always seems to pitch well against Boston.

Chuck - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 07:04 PM EST (#180448) #

I guess Chacin, in your narrative, is the Republican. Like McCain, he was once the seeming undisputed frontrunner, was temporarily bypassed by some right-wingers, then emerged victorious in the end, the right-wingers all simultaneously marvelling at such Lazarus act and bemoaning his lefty leanings.

As for Johnson, well, I'm stumped. Perhaps his middle name is Hussein?

TamRa - Friday, February 29 2008 @ 08:07 PM EST (#180449) #

I thought the line on Eck was that he didn't really have the arm for SS?

SheldonL - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 12:03 AM EST (#180451) #

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7853962/Smoltz-still-has-something-to-work-on

Rosenthal's notes briefly mention a few guys without options who could possibly be put on waivers in an attempt to sneak them back to the minors.

Some inriguing names are Delwyn Young, Marte, Jason Botts, Clint Barmes, Gross...

I think that if Marte becomes available, I'd rather have him instead of Johnny Mac(Scutaro is a good utility man with supposedly above average defense) on the roster. The same sentiment goes for a SS like Barmes but the problem with him is that he's pretty much at the same point as Russ Adams is in his career. That is, both have tons to prove.

Thomas - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 01:09 PM EST (#180452) #

Melondough, what is the blackout policy for MLB.com TV? Are you familiar with it or what has been your experience with blackouts? I tried sending them an e-mail but got a form letter back in response.

VBF - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 01:37 PM EST (#180453) #

As I understand, there are blackouts in local areas for the home team. You won't be able to watch Jays games if you're around Toronto. Now if you're in somewhere like London, I believe the only concern is national blackouts, which I might guess would occur if a (in your situation) London television station is broadcasting a specific game, or if you're in Japan, and theres a Yankees/Sox game on.

But MLB has a toll free number and you can talk to a live person during daytime hours here and I found them rather helpful. I any event, I don't believe there's blackouts for gameday audio. Spring Training games have local blackouts (according to the mlb.com lady--even if the home team isn't broadcasting).

Also, once the game is archived, there's no blackouts. So as soon as the game is complete, you should be able to watch it in whole, regardless of where you are, right?

HollywoodHartman - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 02:05 PM EST (#180454) #

It really is great to listen to some baseball again.

westcoast dude - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 02:36 PM EST (#180455) #

I'm not getting the audio feed on the internet like I did last year, even though I'm paid up. I can get as far as clicking on FAN and then the screen goes blank and I end up having to send an error report to Microsoft. Somebody please tell me I did something really stupid on the computer.

vw_fan17 - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 02:58 PM EST (#180456) #

Well, here in Fremont, CA, I only get blackouts when the Jays play the As.. (and usually only when they're here..). And the Giants, IIRC.

Not sure how MLB feels about me signing up an account that resides in Fremont, CA on behalf of someone who lives in Toronto..

VW

Dez - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 03:07 PM EST (#180457) #

VW, it wouldn't matter where you sign up. The system checks your IP every time you attempt to watch a game, determines your location, and blacks out if necessary.

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 04:54 PM EST (#180458) #

Has anyone else yet read Baseball Prospectus 2008. They don't criticize JP Ricciardi as much as excoriate him. Without offending copyright, a brief summary goes:

1. Ricciardi was hired 7 years ago this November and if the Jays aren't in the playoffs, which they won't be, Rogers should fire him before his 7th anniversary.

2. The 2008 Jays are the 6th best team in the league - and consists of what Gord Ash left and Ted Rogers' money can buy.

4. When the team plays its final game of the year on the last Sunday in September, Ted Rogers should ask himself what he's paying for.

5. Snider is the only Jay farmhand listed in the top 100. The Rays, Red Sox and Yankees have many. Romero may not make it as a starter due to his lack of a 3rd pitch.

6. No impact players on the team. Competitors have 2-3 apiece.

Jay Bruce is the top prospect, Clay Buchholz, Joba Chamberalain, Evan Longoria, Cameron Maybin all in the top 10 with Snider.

HollywoodHartman - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 05:10 PM EST (#180459) #

I ordered the book yesterday and it should arrive in a few days. I'll give my thoughts then.

ChicagoJaysFan - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 05:20 PM EST (#180460) #

6. No impact players on the team. Competitors have 2-3 apiece.

I can maybe see a case being made for some of the other points, although I disagree with some as well ... but really, no impact players? To me, that's either hyperbole or trying to be provocative.

If Halladay's not an impact pitcher, how many impact pitchers are in the league? 5 of them - Santana, Sabathia, Peavy, Webb, and Smoltz? And Rios was 9th in the AL in runs created, is a two-time all-star and generally thought of as a top-tier defensive right fielder. Is he not an impact player either?

If Rios and Halladay aren't considered impact players, they're setting the bar pretty high.

melondough - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 05:46 PM EST (#180461) #

Melondough, what is the blackout policy for MLB.com TV? Are you familiar with it or what has been your experience with blackouts?

Thomas, I live in the GTA and had no conflicts with any blackouts last year for any Blue Jay games on MLB.TV. In fact, the 20 or so games that were not televised anywhere were all available via the MLB via their video web. I expect to have full access to EVERY Jays game even the ones played at home.

West Coast dude, my audio works fine so I am not sure what to say other than to do what you already have done and call them for support. I signed up for the Premium option so I am really looking forward to taking advantage of the Mosaic option which will allow me to watch 6 games on my screen at once (oh boy my wife is going to love that!). For anyone in a baseball pool this is a must. MLB.TV will alert you when any of your players step up to the plate so you can watch it live.

Today I enjoyed listening to the 9th inning of the famous 2 out top of the ninth GEORGE BRETT PINE-TAR INCIDENT. For those of you too young to know, Brett hit a pinch hit two run home run in the top of the ninth inning at Yankee Stadium to put the Royals ahead 5-4. The Yankees manager at the time Billy Martin immediately protested saying that the pine tar Brett had on his bat went too far up the barrel. After some deliberation the umpires agreed and pointed to Brett who at the time was high-fiving his mates in the dugout and gave the out signal. That's when Brett went berserk. It was terrific to listed too (unfortunately no video of it). What I didn�t know is that the Royals (who lost the game 4-3 after the two run shot was overturned by the umps and instead was counted as an out) protested the game. The commissioner overturned the umpires ruling and the bottom of the ninth inning was 3 weeks later. The Royals got the three outs to win but not before Martin made a statement to start the ninth by putting first-baseman Mattingly at 2B and ace starter Guidry in CF. Here it is if you are interested to hear how it sounded � again I hope this works (you have to go to about 2:06 into the broadcast for the incident):

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_silverlight.jsp?w_id=527764&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/library/mlb_%21/bb/bbaudio/83reg/83reg_072483_kcanya_radio.wmv&vid=7808&pid=bb_audio&cid=mlb&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=a_sub&_mp=1

melondough - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 05:55 PM EST (#180462) #

This is a very encouraging article from the Canadian Press....

After seeing McGowan pitch against his Rays today, Joe Maddon said the following:

"He's Roy Halladay Jr., he's his mini-me, all that. This guy is very good, he's going to be even better, he's very simple just like Halladay which I kind of like from a distance. If he stays healthy he's going to be a very, very, very good pitcher for many years."

It was also interesting to learn that there were a number of umpires last year that were very impressed with McGowan. Here is a quote from Gibbons:

"I don't know how many times it happened but I'll guarantee you it was five or six times, when you take him out of the game, the umpire would walk over as I'm coming off the field and say, 'You know, this kid has got some kind of arm,' " "That doesn't happen too often and it wasn't like just one guy said it," he added. "A handful of them did throughout the year and that tells you all you need to know."

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ifCTd1f9VeU44DDAc9d9_AJab3cw

Marc Hulet - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 06:25 PM EST (#180463) #

For what it's worth, I received an email a couple days ago and the help desk at MLB.TV said the Jays are blacked out for all of Canada in 2008.

VBF - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 06:34 PM EST (#180464) #

So while it is *very* exciting to be able to watch the game on television tomorrow...I am most definitely not looking forward to the butcher of the job CityTV is going to do.

Barb DeJulio actually seems pretty smart in the sports world, but the rest have got to be some of the most obnoxious, unfunny, unintelligent people on television...which pretty much goes with the whole Breakfast Television scene.

The funny part is that Cinci fans will be watching the broadcast on MLB TV. They're going to think we're nuts!

melondough - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 06:35 PM EST (#180465) #

For what it's worth, I received an email a couple days ago and the help desk at MLB.TV said the Jays are blacked out for all of Canada in 2008.

I believe you were told this but I don't understand how that could be. Arrn't blackouts used to increase home attendance? If so, then who cares if a fan in B.C for instance wants to watch the game on his computer? I highly doubt that this information is correct. I will e-mail myself and let you know.

melondough - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 06:43 PM EST (#180466) #

Further to my last post, I just went onto the mlb.tv site and looked up their blackout description. Here it is (I wonder if this is new becasue last year I had no problem accessing home games live).

� Local Live Blackout: ALL LIVE MLB.TV games will be blacked out in each applicable Club's home television territory (except for certain home television territories for which MLB.com may offer in-market subscription services) or in Japan. � National Live Blackout (Regular Season): Due to Major League Baseball national exclusivities, each Saturday until 7:00 PM EST (beginning May 17, 2008 and continuing for remaining Saturdays during the regular season) and each Sunday night (for games that begin after 5:00 PM EST), all scheduled webcasts of games played within such time period will be blacked out.

greenfrog - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 07:58 PM EST (#180468) #

They don't criticize JP Ricciardi as much as excoriate him.

Ricciardi has been roundly (and repeatedly) criticized in many quarters, so the BP hatchet job is nothing new. The Adams and Romero 1st-round picks, in particular, will probably haunt Jays fans for quite a while. On the other hand, Buster Olney recently called the Jays a dark horse to make the playoffs, and noted that they might have the deepest pitching staff in the AL. So things could be a lot worse.

I've long been skeptical of JP's performance, but he's made some good moves. And to be fair, things might be different if the Jays had had a competitive payroll from the get-go. Ownership bears some responsibility for buying into the idea--initially, at least--that the Jays could compete in the AL East on the cheap.

VBF - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 08:32 PM EST (#180469) #

Arrn't blackouts used to increase home attendance?

Well, since most Jays games are nationally broadcast, it's probably to encourage you to watch the RSN feed, which probably counts towards their ratings, and wouldn't if you were watching on MLB TV (Just a guess).

But for games where no Toronto station is broadcasting, I really don't see the harm.

Mick in Ithaca - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 08:55 PM EST (#180470) #

I've been an MLBTV subscriber for 4 years now. Their policy on blackouts for Jays games has always been the same: all of Canada. But I too have in fact been able to access games while in Toronto on business. So I don't know what to tell you on this.

I lived in Mobile Alabama, and am back there fairly often so I know that if the Jays are playing in Tampa, I'm not going to get it on MLBTV. Tampa has got to be 500 miles from Mobile, and once again, there are no (Devil) Rays games on Mobile cable.

So if I were expecting to spend most of the season in Canada, and wanted to see Jays games, I'd be thinking about cable TV rather than MLBTV, given the latter's blackout policy. But it's possible you might luck out.

John Northey - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 09:01 PM EST (#180471) #

Just remember, things could be a whole lot worse than what we've seen under JP.

From 2002-2007...
Baltimore - finished 4th in all but one season, when they finished 3rd
Tampa Bay - finished 5th in all but one season, when they finished 4th
Kansas City - 5th place for 4 straight years, after a 3rd place 83 win season and a 4th place 100 loss season
Texas - 4th or 3rd place in a 4 team division every year, one season above 500 (89 wins, just 3 out of 1st place)
Montreal/Washington - sold the farm for 2 83 win seasons, 4th or 5th from 2003 on
Milwaukee - 3 6th place finishes, one year over 500 (last year with 83 wins) which was their first since the first WS win for the Jays in 92
Cincinnati - sub 500 all 6 years, 2 3rds the rest 4/5th place
Pittsburgh - a 4th place 75 win season is their high mark this millennium, last 500 season again was the 92 season

8 other teams who not only missed the playoffs all 6 years of JP's reign but also all showed virtually no hope (outside of Milwaukee last year). That is extremely sad.

Now, that isn't a ringing endorsement of JP but it does point out how much uglier things can be. Baltimore has certainly been up there in spending, as has Texas. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Milwaukee play in the joke division and can't pull off more than one winning season between them. Montreal.... sigh. KC kinda blew it a few times. Tampa is now dreaming but have yet to avoid 90 losses in a season.

If the Jays don't crack 90 wins or sneak into the playoffs this season JP probably is toast, but it also depends on the bottom line. Rogers is very much about bottom line (dollars that is) and if the Jays get over 3 million in attendance and tv ratings go up then JP will get 2009 even if a losing record occurs (don't see both losing and 3 million fans but who knows).

Oh, and for those Ash fans - Gord's teams had 3 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons, taking over a 2 time World Series champ with the largest payroll in baseball. JP's have had 3 winning seasons and 3 losing seasons taking over a team that dropped in wins for 3 straight seasons. Baseball America ratings for the Jays overall talent (farm and majors) in 2001 = 17th (Ash's last year), 2002 = 13th, 2003 = 6th, 2004 = 8th, 2005 = 15th, 2006 - 25th. The Jays weren't exactly listed as amazing pre-JP, then climted drastically after his first draft/first year controlling the minors then dropped like a stone.

In 2002 the top 100 from Baseball America had more Jays - 5 of them. In order ranked by BA - Josh Phelps, Jayson Werth, Gabe Gross, Orlando Hudson (81), and at #98 Dustin McGowan. For 2001 there were 3 - Vernon Wells (12), Felipe Lopez (32), and Joe Lawrence (99). Basically this states how vital a top 20 can be and how often they really seem odd (Joe Lawrence? The next year Dustin McGowan in the same slot?) years later. As to those who say that Gillick left the cupboard bare, the 1994 list had 6 Jays on it including 3 (!) in the top 10 (Alex Gonzalez [4], Carlos Delgado[5], Jose Silva[10]) plus Shawn Green, DJ Boston, and at #99 Paul Spoljaric.

Wow. I totally forgot how many top prospects were kicking around back then. FYI: Gonzo and Delgado were both ranked higher than A-Rod, and Manny Ramirez (#6/7).

ChicagoJaysFan - Saturday, March 01 2008 @ 09:39 PM EST (#180472) #

The blackout policy is pretty ridiculous, and its intentions are hard to fathom at times. Where I live, the Mets and Yankees games are blacked out, which makes some sense since their games are accessible if you have cable. I lived in Buffalo for a time, and there it was Mets, Yankees AND Indians, which made no sense other than proximity to Jacobs field: only 200 miles down the road. Certainly there were no Indians games on cable in Buffalo.

I'm a subscriber and it's worked fine for me - obviously Chicago doesn't conflict with Jays games. Anyway, the only reason I state that I'm a subscriber is to give some background because I can't find a link to back up what follows, but I know I've read it somewhere on the mlb site or else on reviews of the mlb tv.

MLB tv's blackout restrictions are less driven by attendance at games and are instead driven by tv contracts - they don't want to sell a service that competes with their local television deals - doing otherwise would probably have some huge repercussions (as it would impact local revenues and thus revenue sharing, which I think is a CBA thing). Anyway - baseball blocks out all zip codes defined to be in the local market for the team (I don't recall how this is defined) and then also gives each team an additional number of zip codes (can't remember how many) that they themselves can choose to black out. They don't need any reason to black these out - if they want to do it, they can. From what I recall reading, all teams used their maximum number of zip codes, so some blacked out areas may be far down the list of those that you would think most important.

As to why Cleveland games are being blacked out in Buffalo - my guess is that it has to do with a relationship with the Bisons. As to the Yanks / Mets - somebody in each organization has probably never been to upstate New York and thinks there's a chance that there are people there who do anything other than hate NYC products.

On a related note - every once in a while you'll get games that are blacked out for no reason (I've had Jays games against the Angels in LA blacked out) - and for me, it's always ended up being a mistake in the system they have for determining zips that get blacked out. Fortunately, every time it's happened, a phone call has had it taken care of during the game time (usually it's like a 20-30 minute wait on hold, but still, I did get to watch the game).

SK in NJ - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 09:33 AM EST (#180476) #

3. Because of Ricciardi's "poor drafting" from 2002-2005, the Jays farm system is devoid of any upper-minors value to assist the team. BP calls the "univerally criticized" choice of Romero in the 2005 first round 'franchise altering'. Burnett will be exiting at the end of the year unless his arm comes off his shoulder. While other teams pull in Cabrera or Santana, Ricciardi draft picks like Marcum or Romero are no more than the 3rd or 4th best players that go into a deal for a frontliner, so the team's is out of that market. As a result they were out of the market for the kind of player they need while Burnett is still here, either an impact pitcher or impact leftfielder.

This is right on the money, and one of the reasons I feel this team will peak in 2008, and enter a downward spiral in 2009-2010. Losing Burnett, Eckstein, and Zaun/Barajas means Ricciardi goes into next off-season trying to find a #2 starter, a starting SS, and a starting catcher. Who is going to fill those spots internally? Sure you can say McGowan might step into the #2 spot, but that doesn't mean the team should settle for a lesser pitcher to replace Burnett. The Jays don't have much to trade either. That's why I'm a firm believer in rebuilding if the team fails to make the playoffs in 2008. This coming season is the best chance Ricciardi has, and after that, it doesn't look pretty.

China fan - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 09:42 AM EST (#180478) #

Given the likely departure of Zaun and Barajas next season, it's curious to see that Thigpen was slotted at 1B in yesterday's game. He did play briefly at catcher in the first pre-season game, but now he's back to the infield again. Seems that the Jays are still very uncertain about his future role.
On the other hand, Robinzon Diaz was being praised for his defensive abilities (plate-blocking, specifically) in his first pre-season game on Saturday. Maybe the Jays have some optimism that Diaz is developing fast enough to allow Thigpen to move into a utility or super-sub role.

ayjackson - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 11:14 AM EST (#180479) #

BP may call the choice of Romero in the first round "universally criticized", but I thought he was the top (college?) left-hander in the draft and "universally considered" to be the safest bet to make the majors.

John Northey - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 11:50 AM EST (#180481) #

ayjackson - should always remember the first rule of the media - if you don't like someone or something tear it apart and ignore the fact you agreed/disagreed with it at the time.

As to 'universally criticized', well, Baseball America had Romero ranked the #87 prospect in '06, which isn't great but isn't horrid. From Baseball America pre-draft - "Search For Southpaws: No left-hander is projected to go in the first round heading into the season. Georgia's Miers Quigley and Houston's Aaron Thompson, a pair of high school arms, and college lefties Ryan Mullins (Vanderbilt), Cesar Ramos (Long Beach State) and Ricky Romero (Cal State Fullerton) are the best bets to pitch their way into the top 30 picks." Also from Baseball America pre-draft - "6. BLUE JAYS Toronto will stick with its college-heavy approach, but would make an exception for Upton. Gordon, Tulowitzki and Zimmerman also are on a short list of six prospects, along with Romero and Townsend. The Blue Jays seem resigned that the four hitters will be gone and have focused on Romero, making it the second year in a row they would take a college lefthander with their first pick. PROJECTED PICK: Ricky Romero."

Given Baseball America is normally viewed as the #1 source for pre-draft info I have to think Romero isn't a 'universally panned' choice. Say what you will about the pick, and how JP could've done better but obviously Romero wasn't viewed as a disaster at the time.

ChicagoJaysFan - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 12:10 PM EST (#180482) #

Losing Burnett, Eckstein, and Zaun/Barajas means Ricciardi goes into next off-season trying to find a #2 starter, a starting SS, and a starting catcher. Who is going to fill those spots internally?

We did sign each of them as free agents, so we may be able to do so again. I'm not that concerned.

Geoff - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 12:30 PM EST (#180483) #

Say what you will about the pick, and how JP could've done better but obviously Romero wasn't viewed as a disaster at the time.

I remember the days when McGowan was viewed as a disaster.

I'm not saying that Romero is going to become Dustin freakin' McGowan -- I mean c'mon, Dustin is a Cy Young darkhorse here now -- but there was once upon a time when it looked like he had no hope of fulfilling any of the potential he was drafted with. Much like Doc. And Alexis, before he became Alex.

But how come there isn't much reiteration that the Jays drafted Romero ahead of Tulowitzki, Maybin, and Jay Bruce? There ought to be a standard such list of names brought up whenever anyone mentions Ricky Romero.

As for myself, I try to look on the bright side by looking at how much worse it could have been. I can't imagine how sullen I would be if the Jays had the fifth pick and passed on Ryan Braun to take Romero. Surely, you think, the Jays would have taken Braun if they had the fifth pick.

Speaking of disappointment, how is Alex Gordon, the #2 pick, doing? The kid who had never had a slump until he hit the majors. The Kansas City Star tells us he's ready to succeed. A victim of pressure and expectation, Gordon has figured out how he needs to approach the game to succeed.

�We�re not preparing for �09 or �10,� he said. �We�re going to win this year. That�s what we want to do. There�s no reason to waste a season and just let it go by you."

Yes, the kid is playing for the Royals and is going to find his game by expecting to win this year with no exception. I call this: Recipe for Disaster. The Alex Gordon Story.

Andrew K - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 12:31 PM EST (#180484) #

Apparently the spring training game is just starting on "city tv", whatever that is. A lot of regulars will be starting. If anyone wants to chat, try the "live chat" link above.

VBF - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 02:51 PM EST (#180488) #

That was actually worse than what I thought. It was like they wikipedia'd "baseball" and used that as their press notes. I still don't think Gord Martineau understands what a double play is.

And the Jays Marketing efforts seem to have gone towards re-creating that Fox 29 feel for commercials. Alas, it was very nice to watch it on television. But why not get someone that knows something about the game?

VBF - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 03:13 PM EST (#180490) #

"We're back and apparently the game is over. You see, the guy throwing the ball got the other guy to hit it three times at the guys on the grass. That's how it happened."

Chill - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 03:20 PM EST (#180491) #

You're right VBF, that was nearly unbearable. The last straw for me was cutting to commercial in the middle of Joe Inglett's at bat. When they cut away my buddy said to me, "I bet Inglett just crushed one." And of course, he did.

If that wasn't a Blue Jays game, and the only baseball I'll see until next Saturday's Mets game, I would have turned it off.

Original Ryan - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 03:23 PM EST (#180492) #

I hated how they played their taped interview segments while the game was going on. They should've at least gone used picture-in-picture while they were doing that so people could see what was happening in the game.

The whole thing seemed like an infomercial for Jays tickets. Pretty pathetic.

VBF - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 03:27 PM EST (#180493) #

So I'm trying to justify this broadcast. It probably cost them about $20,000 dollars to bring those guys down, not to mention equipment costs and television crew. For that money, they could have gotten Jamie Campbell or Hentgen, or ANYONE already there who knows something about baseball, and really saved themselves quite a bit of money and appeased the fans watching.

I guess they're trying to attract people who watch CityTV, but I don't think substituting Campbell for Martineau would have changed much.

And now we watch the death march of old people that is the Blue Jays BBQ.

Shane - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 04:19 PM EST (#180495) #

Yip. Pretty bad production all around. Scott Rolen's first AB as a Blue Jay (on TV) comes up, and they emmediately go to interview in the crowd with some season ticket holder who sounded like he was reading from a script about how great the Jays onfield product is. (It would have been funny if Richard Pettie was sitting there beside him, mouthing the same words.) Travis Snider had a plate appearance, and they went split screen again so as to jabber with some other spectator in attendance. Great AB he had though, nice opposite field single.

Geoff - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 04:59 PM EST (#180497) #

Gord Martineau explained the CityTV production process pretty well after the game; he said that he was very happy with how things went for the day and that if the broadcast was "too structured", it would come across as "contrived" -- so clearly, you can't fault them for seeming completely unprepared to broadcast a live sporting event.

They had lots of pre-taped footage that threw in at random moments of the afternoon, and kept up their "non-traditional" look and feel by not always sticking to the action on the field. At no point would a viewer be able to say that this was just another one of those structured, contrived telecasts that were difficult to watch.

At any moment, you were never sure how to predict what would happen. Maybe an interview with Tony Fernandez signing autographs. Maybe an interview with a random guy in the stands. An at-bat for Rolen. A piece on how gorgeous Alex Rios is. Some discussion of the weather. Snider lines a pitch to left field. One out, cut to commercial, return for the third out, back to commercial. First pitch of the inning, go to call in centre back in Toronto.

There was clearly a lack of a plan for the whole afternoon, except maybe for Kathryn Humphreys, who combed the stadium with some sense of purpose, and the 'spontaneous' BBQ after the game, which seemed really contrived, actually.

All in all, I have never seen a more spontaneously televised live sporting event.

Chuck - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 05:07 PM EST (#180498) #

Gord Martineau explained the CityTV production process pretty well after the game; he said that he was very happy with how things went for the day and that if the broadcast was "too structured", it would come across as "contrived"

Yeah, contrived, as in professional. You wouldn't want to sully the Moses Znaimer brand with anything that smacks of quality or integrity when clearly, what the world wants, is a crapfest.

HollywoodHartman - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 05:11 PM EST (#180499) #

My favourite part was when Jay Bruce's skin tone changed and decided to stitch Cabrera onto the back of his jersey to try and fool CityTV. They would have none of it though and still gushed about him after he made the nice catch. Any other sportscast would definitely have taken the bait and thought it was someone else.

Zach - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 05:31 PM EST (#180500) #

We have our first injury of the year!

According to Jordan Bastian, A. J. Burnett broke a nail in his car door and can't start throwing breaking balls for a couple weeks. Not even the team manicurist could help him.

greenfrog - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 07:10 PM EST (#180501) #

A quote from Jordan's blog:

Pitching coach Brad Arnsberg said that Burnett, shortly before spring began, smashed his right hand in his car door and broke the nail on his index finger.

What I want to know is, how does AJ get his pitching hand anywhere near a car door on it's way to being closed/slammed shut? That seems really moronic.

Geoff - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 07:33 PM EST (#180504) #

Wasn't it Beckett who underwent chronic fingernail problems? AJ really needs to be careful with his scissorhands.

If today was a great indication (it wasn't) he needs to get a handle on the breaking ball (he really does). I don't see why he couldn't practice with some false nails, unless there was some special MLB rule preventing the use of false nails. But then, couldn't you quite easily get a nail that was so well disguised as real, nobody would get wise to it? A nail with special micro serrations that could cut into the ball, giving you an extra grip when needed?

HollywoodHartman - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 07:38 PM EST (#180505) #

A special robotic nail that will let him dominate the AL, and then later, the world!

Kieran - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 08:19 PM EST (#180508) #

What I want to know is, how does AJ get his pitching hand anywhere near a car door on it's way to being closed/slammed shut? That seems really moronic.

If Halladay had caught his finger in a car door, would you be calling it moronic, or just bad luck? Or the fault of the person shutting the door for being careless? My point is that, even though AJ is a highly-paid, underachieving athlete, who has drawn the ire of the general public, he still has to use his right and left hands in his daily life - the same as you or me.

Kieran - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 08:22 PM EST (#180509) #

My only major complaint with the telecast (it is spring training, after all, and it IS CityTV - what were we expecting?) is that it came across like an amateur telethon. Sometimes it feels like the Jays are so hard up that they're begging the public.

timpinder - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 10:38 PM EST (#180514) #

Ricky Romero shouldn't be written off yet. Not by a long shot. If he's healthy he'll be a solid #3. He showed excellent promise at age 21 in A+ (2.47 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 9.41 K9). People were singing his praises. He struggled initially after his promotion to AA (normal, especially at age 21), then recovered and finished off strong.

He had a set back last year, I agree. But he was only 22 years old and battled some injuries. Just search on-line for scouting reports on him. He had three average-plus rated major league pitches, plus control, and was left-handed. That's a recipe for a solid major league starter, injuries notwithstanding. It seems that some people tend to sour on prospects too quickly if they have an off year. I could provide a list of a dozen #1 and #2 starters in the majors who struggled and didn't put it together until their mid-twenties, a la McGowan (I did provide a comparison in another post defending Romero, but I'm too lazy to do it again).

I'm on the Romero bandwagon and I'm STILL drooling over the Halladay-McGowan-Purcey-Romero-Whoever rotation.

VBF - Sunday, March 02 2008 @ 11:58 PM EST (#180515) #

What I want to know is, how does AJ get his pitching hand anywhere near a car door on it's way to being closed/slammed shut? That seems really moronic.

Any number of ways:

1. You park sideways on a hill, put your hand on the door frame, and gravity causes the door to shut
2. You put your hand near a part of the door closing, and the door hits it.
3. You are driving a rental and are completely unfamiliar with the car.
4. You reach back into the car and your son slams the door on your fingers.

It's not like he broke his fingers--it clearly wasn't anything too hard. Anything is possible. I don't know anyone that's never stubbed their toe or slammed a door on their fingers. C'est la vie. It can be hard not to put your John Stewart hat on and chastise every George Bush mannerism to the point where anything you do is viewed as stupidity.

jeff mcl - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 10:30 AM EST (#180516) #

It's not like AJ injured the wrist on his throwing hand moving a big screen TV, right? What kind of a moron would do that?

Lefty - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:31 AM EST (#180517) #

Seems to me I've heard the old car door story at spring training a few times over the years.

Sounds so unbelievable I call cods wallop.

ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:52 AM EST (#180518) #

Seems to me I've heard the old car door story at spring training a few times over the years.

Sounds so unbelievable I call cods wallop.

I understand the Jays have probably lost some credibility with injuries, but I'm amazed that people find this story hard to believe.

First, probably once every 10 years or so, I manage to catch a finger or a thumb in the car door. Hurts like hell, and I feel stupid, but hey, it happens. I can't think of any Jay in recent memory that's had this happen to them, so they were due if they're half as clumsy as me.

Second, it's not like the reporters and everyone can't see AJ's finger and the lack of a nail. Since he must be missing his nail, how many other ways can you lose a nail other than clumsy accidents and why is the car door story so much better than some of the alternatives that they'd use that as the cover-up.

China fan - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:55 AM EST (#180519) #

     At what point are we allowed to say that AJ is injury-prone?    His supporters would argue that he's not injury-prone, that it's merely a string of bad luck and coincidences, or something inherent in his hard-throwing style, and after all even Doc had injuries for three consecutive years. But AJ has been injured 10 times in the past 9 years, and now this. At some point it becomes more than bad luck.
      As for the mangled digit: maybe it's nothing, maybe it will be completely cured in two weeks -- or maybe it's just the opening indication of a bigger problem, as happened last yeaer. One of the problems is AJ's lack of credibility on injury issues because he is never candid or honest about it. Yesterday he met the press and told everyone that he is totally healthy and fine.    A few minutes later, the Jays admit that he is injured and he cannot throw a curve ball for the next two weeks. Why is AJ concealing the truth?
      By the way, here are AJ's exact words yesterday, so you can judge for yourself whether he's being honest: ""Things are fine, man. Health is there. That's all that matters."

ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 12:01 PM EST (#180520) #

By the way, here are AJ's exact words yesterday, so you can judge for yourself whether he's being honest: ""Things are fine, man. Health is there. That's all that matters."

As with all quotes - I need to know the context of the discussion to judge his statement. As someone who has occasionally lost the odd fingernail, I know that it grows back and there is nothing at all lingering about it.

If someone asked AJ, "How are you going for getting ready for the season?" and his response was, "Things are fine, man. Health is there. That's all that matters." I'd completely agree with his response and wouldn't think at all that he's concealing the truth. The fingernail thing will hardly even impact him for getting ready (has Doc thrown all his pitches yet? I'm pretty certain he's still avoiding the cutter) and definitely doesn't cut into working up his endurance or anything.

John Northey - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 12:54 PM EST (#180523) #

Just having fun looking at spring stats. With no more than 8 AB's or 2 IP it isn't like they mean anything yet but still fun.

Shaw Camp is the pitching leader, 2 IP, 0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 walks, 1 strikeout, with Casey Janssen my choice for #2 with 2 IP, 2 H, 2 K's and 0's everywhere else.

Worst impression made: Ketchner going just 1 inning allowing 4 earned runs on 5 hits with no K's or BB's, followed by Litsch with 2 IP, 4 earned runs, 4 hits, 1 walk, 1 HR, 2 K's.

For hitters it appears Inglett is fighting hard, going 5 for 8 with a homer, a walk, 3 RBI's. Coats at 3 for 6 with a homer (no walks or K's) is also looking good early.

Santos looks to be hurting his cause though, with 3 K's in 5 AB's plus a single. The guys who have struck out in their one and only chance to show something (so far) are Arencibia and Tolisano, either of whom has played in the field from the looks of it.

For big leaguers we have 0 for 6'ers Wells & Rios, and Zaun & Scutaro at 0-5. I'm sure the big leaguers will start a pool on who takes longest to get that first hit :)

In the battle for right handed left fielder we have Shannon Stewart at 0-2 with a walk vs Reed Johnson at 2-6 with no walks. Nothing to note there yet. Travis Snider at 1-2 with 2 walks and a RBI is serving notice that he doesn't want to stay in the minors too long though while Lind at 0-4 with a K is showing why he'll start at AAA.

Of course, by the end of today this will all be out of date, but it is fun to look early on.

Timbuck2 - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 05:22 PM EST (#180548) #

Don't forget about Reed's HBP the other day. That counts towards the OBP.

John Northey - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 05:30 PM EST (#180549) #

Rios is off the 0 fer train with his single & double today. Scurato also had 2 hits.

Snider 1 for 3 with 2 walks - watch out Lind/Stewart/Johnson/Stairs!

Although Lind hitting a triple does help his cause a little.

Inglett had the law of averages hit him hard - 0 for 3

Nice to see the only pitcher having serious troubles was Parrish who is unlikely to go north. Although League walking 2 vs 0 K's in 1 IP is not a good sign.

Mike Green - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 06:14 PM EST (#180554) #

One of my favourite ballplayers, Davey Lopes, has just had surgery for prostate cancer. He didn't reach the majors until age 27, and only got a cup of coffee that year, but was great in his 30s and topped it off with a .284./.384/.444 line with a 47/4 SB/CS at age 40. Smart man.

I wish him well.

Lefty - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 06:14 PM EST (#180555) #

This is a bit of a hi-jack, but a worthwhile Star article on Tim Laker and his dance with the devil at the crossroads of his career.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Baseball/article/308757

CeeBee - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 06:57 PM EST (#180556) #

Is it to soon to start the "Snider" watch? :) If he has a great year in Dunedin/NH do you think the Jays would give him a September callup?

Lefty - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:05 PM EST (#180570) #

I also wish Davey Lopes well, pure class.

Its a bit touching on the day that Jeff Healy passes away at 41.

He used to play quite a bit out here in Vancouver. First time I seen him he must have been about 18, he opened for Buddy Guy and Junior Wells at a place called the Commodore Ballroom. Nobody had ever heard of him and he just blew people away.

During the Wells / Guy show I spotted him sitting with Long John Baldry and had to go up a tell this guy to keep at it because he was just so good.

Probably my greatest understatement ever.

Two high-jacks in one day. Sorry.

Ryan Day - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:14 PM EST (#180572) #

According to BP, Snider's going to start the year at AA.

HollywoodHartman - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:21 PM EST (#180573) #

Wonderful news. Where did everyone hear this from first though?... Oh isn't his obp around .444 this spring? Not that it matters...

Ryan Day - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:42 PM EST (#180575) #

2. The 2008 Jays are the 6th best team in the league.

Is this really so bad, though? Particularly considering several of the teams ahead have payrolls that dwarf the Jays? And if the Jays are better than expected and one or two teams are worse than expected, all of a sudden they're the fourth-best team in the league, which means they're sniffing a playoff spot.

John Northey - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:42 PM EST (#180576) #

Sounds like Snider is on the very fast train to the majors. Hot first half along with any weakness in LF and he'll be up. Slow first half and he'll spend all of 2008 in the minors.

Lind should be very, very nervous right now. His future has to come fast or he'll have to hope for a trade.
LF: Stewart/Johnson/Stairs - could steal Stairs job as the left handed part of the platoon with a hot spring, forcing the Jays to juggle the roster as Stairs is signed for '08 and '09
CF: Wells - signed through 2014
RF: Rios - signed for 2008, arbitration for 2009 and 2010 if not signed long term
DH: Frank Thomas - signed for '08 and probably '09 option will be in force
1B: Overbay - signed through 2010

Basically, Lind must make the team this spring and do well or pray that Snider has a slump in AA. Otherwise he will find out what AAA buses are like for a long time.

Geoff - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 09:52 PM EST (#180578) #

Looking pretty smart now that JP didn't get Brian Giles' name on a contract.

Agreed, Lind is definitely looking to play the role of Lost Man this year if he doesn't come through with Breakthrough Season.

Snider is all but penciled in for everyday work in 2009. If the Jays could relieve themselves of Thomas at the end of the year, that would help -- unless he's going to become a very good pinch hitter for 2009 on a championship calibre team. (I refer to the 09 Jays, replete with offense, defense and pitching)

But there's always the 'i' word. Or the 'd' 'l' place of which we shall not speak. It strikes without warning and always requires depth.

Shane - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:00 PM EST (#180582) #

Wonderful news. Where did everyone hear this from first though?...

Dick Scott was on John Sickels radio program on the weekend and exclaimed that Snider was going to start the season at double-AA.

ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:17 PM EST (#180584) #

There's also the option that Lind could force an Overbay trade - if Overbay has a season like he did in 2006 and Lind does amazing and earns a full-time job next year, an Overbay trade could be used as a way to afford Burnett's raise and add some B+ prospects to the system. If Overbay has another 2007 season, well, we'd probably have to do a Koskie-like trade, so let's not think about that.

I also think there's a good chance that Stairs doesn't play in 2009. He isn't signed for all that much and he will be 41 - he wouldn't be the first one to walk away with some time left on his contract.

I don't think Lind's future in Toronto is as bleak as it's made out to be ... since it came up in another discussion - Delgado found a way to get a spot with Olerud and Molitor blocking him, I don't think Overbay, Stairs, Thomas, et al are anything more significant.

Geoff - Monday, March 03 2008 @ 11:33 PM EST (#180585) #

I don't think Lind's future in Toronto is as bleak as it's made out to be ... since it came up in another discussion - Delgado found a way to get a spot with Olerud and Molitor blocking him, I don't think Overbay, Stairs, Thomas, et al are anything more significant.

Delgado found a spot in the outfield, the last bastion of hope for those who can't field a position well enough, after 1B and DH.

And in that case Overbay, Thomas, Stairs, Johnson, Stewart and Snider are significant. Maybe even Buck Coats. Unless Lind can become a 2B, SS, C.

The Jays could pay an old guy to stay at home, but only if Lind can outplay said old guy.

ChicagoJaysFan - Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 12:28 AM EST (#180588) #

Delgado found a spot in the outfield, the last bastion of hope for those who can't field a position well enough, after 1B and DH.

No he didn't - he found a spot at DH, after the Jays didn't re-sign Molitor.

TamRa - Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 12:52 AM EST (#180589) #

There's also the option that Lind could force an Overbay trade

I've been saying this for a while now. Unless the Jays have a projection of a payroll that's gonna increase by 25% or more over the next 4-5 years, there is some profit in not paying millions for what you can get for thousands. Lind projects to be an Overbay type hitter anyway, teachng him 1B and trading Overbay to Seattle, or Texas or whoever, thus opening a spot for Snider, is not a bad idea at all....and so much the better if that trade could net us a SS f(or maybe catcher) or the near term.

Mike Green - Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 09:08 AM EST (#180598) #

Lind was a first baseman in college. The Jays converted him to the outfield.

timpinder - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 08:27 AM EST (#180647) #

Sickels still has some faith in Adam Lind. I see a position or two opening up for Lind (DH 2010, 1B 2011), assuming Snider grabs the LF spot in 2009. I just don't see where the Jays are going to put Lind in 2009 unless Thomas retires or doesn't reach the required AB's this year. If Lind tears up AAA this year the Jays are going to have to make a trade to make room for him, or trade him.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/

ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 10:29 AM EST (#180649) #

I just don't see where the Jays are going to put Lind in 2009 unless Thomas retires or doesn't reach the required AB's this year. If Lind tears up AAA this year the Jays are going to have to make a trade to make room for him, or trade him.

I know I've commented a few times on how I disagree with this line of thinking - but how is the line-up that different than last year? And last year, Lind managed to get almost 300 at-bats (and was actually our most common LF). With innings in LF and 1B going to the likes of Ryan Roberts, Jason Philips, Curtis Thigpen, Howie Clark, and Hector Luna, I think there are at-bats for Lind if he proves he deserves them.

Last year, Lind started at AAA and our starting outfield was Johnson, Wells, Rios, with Stairs as the 4th, Overbay at 1st, and Thomas at DH. That looks an awful lot like our line-up this year and a horrible Lind (77 OPS+) was able to get 290 at-bats last year.

I guess it's all on your point of view - if you think he absolutely needs to get 550 or more at bats (there were 3 Jays that did this last year), then I can see how we have to make some roster moves to find a place. However, if you think he's fine getting 400-500 at bats, there is definitely room on this team for him to find those opportunities (and next year there will likely be as well).

Geoff - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 12:24 PM EST (#180652) #

Johnson went down with an injury and Lind became the starting outfielder thanks to his 2006 performance.

Reed came back in July and Lind's chance to prove himself expired, save for a September call-up.

This year, Lind has to not only contend with outplaying Reed to get a spot on the roster, but Stewart is vying for that roster spot as well. I believe the old boys Thomas and Stairs will be kept on fairly short leashes for their playing time, to keep them looking fresh and healthy all year long. Lind had a lot of starts last year because of an injury to Reed and I suspect Stewart will be the fourth outfielder, ready to jump in when necessary, while Thomas shares DH duties with Stairs throughout the year.

There is less projected opportunity for him now than last year. And if the Jays really think Buck Coats is something, even less. Then there's the Snider kid knocking on the door for opportunity. The options around Lind have gotten much better this year.

Unless Lind proves himself to be excellent defensively at 1B or far too good not to hand him at-bats, he's quite lost in trying to play his way onto the team. He'll have to sit at home with a voodoo doll or two and talk to the spirits if he wants to force the issue otherwise.

ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 01:22 PM EST (#180657) #

Johnson went down with an injury and Lind became the starting outfielder thanks to his 2006 performance.

Reed came back in July and Lind's chance to prove himself expired, save for a September call-up.

Injuries always happen and from everything I've heard, Lind is still the first in Syracuse to get the call, notwithstanding your comment about Coats, whom I believe to be further behind Lind on the depth chart and haven't heard otherwise.

So situation seems to stay the same.

This year, Lind has to not only contend with outplaying Reed to get a spot on the roster, but Stewart is vying for that roster spot as well.

This is only for Spring Training - from everything I've read and from what makes the most sense, come game 1, there is only one of Reed and Stewart above Lind on the depth chart (Jays save ~$2 million if they cut Reed & Stewart probably wants to retire instead of play AAA). Again, this is the same as it was last year.

I believe the old boys Thomas and Stairs will be kept on fairly short leashes for their playing time, to keep them looking fresh and healthy all year long.

this is the same as last year. Last year we managed to get 280 games between the two of them - now that they're both in their age 40 season, I don't think that's at all likely.

Then there's the Snider kid knocking on the door for opportunity. The options around Lind have gotten much better this year.

The options behind him have gotten better - but they're still behind him and the options ahead of him have also all gotten worse - neither Reed, nor Stewart are projected to do as well as Reed was last year. Few mention Overbay as a potential 125 - 130+ OPS+ anymore. Thomas and Stairs are now 40.

Also, for every single one of those players (and thus the LF, 4th OF, 1B, and DH positions), health/durability is now something to be questioned - something that wouldn't be said about LF (Reed played in 130+ games 2004-2006) or 1B (Overbay played 150+ games every year since he became a full-time starter (2004)) in 2007.

As to Snider and Coats, while they're improved versus Lind's competition last year - Lind is still higher on the depth chart than either so he's still the one getting the first call.

As for 2009 - well neither Reed nor Stewart will be here. There is a good chance that one of Stairs and Thomas (likely Stairs) will retire. Lind will still, at worst, be the 5th OF for the Jays. As we saw last year, that gives him the ability to get 290 at bats.

John Northey - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 01:26 PM EST (#180658) #

I have faith that Lind is a major league caliber player. The problem for him is he might end up as a guy who goes back and forth between AAA and the majors if he doesn't do something quick. The outfield looks likely to be Snider/Wells/Rios from 09 through whenever. Overbay/Thomas share DH/1B with Stairs for 08/09. Thus Lind needs to steal LF from Stairs/Johnson/Stewart or he could be forgotten.

For the Jays this is a great situation. You want guys to be 'wasted' at AAA due to having more talent in the majors. Back in the 80's we had Hill, Ducey, Webster, Whiten, Campusano, and who knows who else stuck behind Bell/Moseby/Barfield (Junior Felix jumped them all in '89 and Mookie was brought in as well). We had McGriff and Fielder behind Upshaw (OK, they should've been ahead of him but...). Gruber had to hit for the cycle to grab third base from Mulliniks. Manny Lee had to switch positions due to Fernandez. That is the way you want it and Lind, hopefully, is the first sign we are going in the same direction no matter what Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus think :)

John Northey - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 01:33 PM EST (#180659) #

Oh, for fun I check the all time top 100 list for Baseball America and saw for 1992 they had, for the Jays, 6 guys listed. In order of rank... Derek Bell, Nigel Wilson, Alex Gonzalez, Carlos Delgado, Howard Battle, Eddie Zosky.

No sign of Jeff Kent, who would earn a job quickly in '92 and is probably going to the HOF. Just a reminder that these lists are not the be-all and end-all.

FYI: the top 3 were all famous flame outs - Brien Taylor, Todd Van Poppel, and Roger Salkeld.

ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 01:43 PM EST (#180660) #

That's a neat list - I checked that and was amazed to see that John Olerud is the highest ranking player the Jays have had (#3 in 1990). Wells, Gonzalez, and Delgado all hit #4. Rios was #6. Halladay never cracked the top 10 and Carpenter never hit the top 20.

To further the point about Kent not making the list ... Hentgen, the first Jay to win the Cy Young and also be home grown (and a 3-time all-star) did not make any list.

Obviously it's better to have more guys on those lists - but as John essentially said, the lists aren't perfect predictors either.

MatO - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 03:15 PM EST (#180666) #

Cool lists.

1994 - 4.Alex Gonzalez 5. Carlos Delgado 16. Derek Jeter

ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 04:13 PM EST (#180668) #

1994 - 4.Alex Gonzalez 5. Carlos Delgado 16. Derek Jeter

I will probably always wonder what happened with Alex Gonzalez. Who peaks at 22?

He did have a career year at 26, but it was such an outlier versus anything else he had never done, I think it's a fair statement that he never improved once he reached the age of 22.

CeeBee - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 06:54 PM EST (#180680) #

Interesting take on the Jays Farm system and in particular the 07 draft.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080229&content_id=353052&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

HollywoodHartman - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 07:18 PM EST (#180681) #

That's pretty much a fluff piece. Not much real insight there.

Shane - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 09:41 PM EST (#180684) #

Those of you who have read Baseball Prospectus 2008, what do you think of the Jays chapter? I hear that's no "fluff" piece.

HollywoodHartman - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 09:47 PM EST (#180685) #

They do not like the teams situation one bit. A nice little quote on the outlook for 2008.

"In a make-or-break season for the Ricciardi regime, the Jays continue to neither make nor brake"

They say that JP has pretty much only used Ash's draft picks and Rogers' money to make his team. They mention the 02-05 drafts are awful (once again stressing Romero over Tulowitzki). They also say the Jays are in a bad position because they are too mediocre at every position. There is no one move they can make that would add 5 wins to the team. This is in contrast to the Tigers having Renteria take over Casey's awful bat, and Miggy taking over the slightly less terrible Inge.

Geoff - Wednesday, March 05 2008 @ 10:07 PM EST (#180687) #

Jeff Passan has an article about the A.J. and B.J. show and what the Jays could be.

timpinder - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 07:59 AM EST (#180691) #

I don't think it's fair to say that the Jays are too mediocre at "every position". It could be argued that their starters are all at least above average for their slot in the rotation, assuming Burnett is healthy and Janssen is the 5th starter. Ryan has been a top 10 closer the last three healthy years, and Accardo will become one of the best 8th inning arms. Wells and Rolen are premium players for their positions, and Rios and Hill could be on the verge of stardom, though perhaps Rios is already there. Thomas is capable of being a premium DH, and certainly was in 2006. Overbay's defense and gap power elevate him to at least average for his position. There are only three positions I'd like to see improve, and that's C, SS and LF, but certainly not "every position". It looks like Snider is going to be the LF of the future, so I don't see the Jays going after an outfielder, and Eckstein/McDonald is a reasonable stopgap measure until next off-season when the Jays will hopefully go hard after someone like Furcal.

This team is being grossly underestimated.

VBF - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 08:32 AM EST (#180692) #

While I believe the team has one of, if not the best rotation in the American League and a killer defense, I can buy the mediocrity at each position argument. I believe that Vernon Wells, Lyle Overbay, and Scott Rolen will play better than they did last year, but there's always the possibility that their career will fall somewhere between 2006 and 2007, hence making them rather mediocre. The only position players on this team that I see as locks to be above average are Aaron Hill and Alex Rios.

I don't think it will happen, but it shouldn't be outruled.

Pistol - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 09:50 AM EST (#180694) #

I don't think it's fair to say that the Jays are too mediocre at "every position".

I'm not sure mediocre at every position was the best summary of the essay (which is why you should read it yourself before having opinions on it... many things can be lost in translation).

The point of the comment was that it'll be tough for the Jays to make a substantial improvement because there's no glaring holes on the team. And if improvement on a position was going to be made the Jays really don't have the big chips to do it like the Tigers did getting Cabrera for Maybin and Miller (because there's virtually no chance Snider is being traded).

Although one could argue signing Bonds to play LF for 80 games and DH for 40 would be a substantial improvement at no cost besides money.

This team is being grossly underestimated.

I don't have the book with me now, but I think they did mention the Jays were the 6th best team. That just doesn't get you too far when at least 4 above them are in the same league and 2 are in the same division.

HollywoodHartman - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 09:57 AM EST (#180695) #

Well, that statement was cherry-picked from my response, I followed with "There is no one move they can make that would add 5 wins to the team. This is in contrast to the Tigers having Renteria take over Casey's awful bat, and Miggy taking over the slightly less terrible Inge."

But yes, I do see their point. Overbay, Rolen, Zaun, The LF Hybrid. They're all decent to above average. Replacing any of them with a superstar wouldn't improve the team the way the Cabrera addition did the Tigers.

Pistol - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 10:10 AM EST (#180696) #

I think one point the BP essay did miss was the injury aspect. That's where improvements will come from, if they do. Whether that's realistic or not is another story, but that wasn't really addressed.

China fan - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 10:10 AM EST (#180697) #

If the Jays indeed are the 6th best team in the league, I would interpret that as great news for Jay fans, because it means that the Jays have a distinct chance of making the playoffs. Statistically, there must be many times when the 6th best team ends up with the 2nd or 3rd best record, because of all the unpredictable things -- from injuries to sheer luck -- that can affect the outcome of many games.

Mike Green - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 10:12 AM EST (#180698) #

Brandon Inge's performance at third base last year was pretty comparable to John McDonald's at shortstop.

One major difference between the Tigers and the Jays of the last few years is the willingness of the Tigers to spend over slot for high draft picks. This has netted them Porcello, Maybin and Miller. Maybin and Miller were converted into Cabrera and Willis.

Shane - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 10:51 AM EST (#180701) #

Mike, has this been documented as a reason for who it is they're (Toronto) actually drafting?

MatO - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 11:22 AM EST (#180703) #

So if the Jays are ranked 6th in the AL then that probably makes them 6th in all of MLB.

The Jays have shown no inclination to pay over slot but they're hardly unique. Porcello was passed over 26 times before the Tigers drafted him and 15 times before the Jays had a shot at him. Maybin was passed over 9 times including the Jays. The Jays had no shot at Miller but I wouldn't trade who the Jays got at slot (Snider) for Miller.

The Tigers are an interesting case. Outside of Cabrera and Granderson, their entire lineup is 32 or older. Ordonez, Polanco and Granderson are coming off career years and I would expect them to easily lose 100 points of OPS each. Jacques Jones is no answer. I don't expect there will be much overall improvement in the offense even with Cabrera's addition but offense was not the Tiger's problem last year. What the Tigers really need is for Robertson, Bonderman and Willis to bounce back since pitching was the big issue in 2007.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, March 06 2008 @ 11:25 AM EST (#180704) #

One major difference between the Tigers and the Jays of the last few years is the willingness of the Tigers to spend over slot for high draft picks. This has netted them Porcello, Maybin and Miller. Maybin and Miller were converted into Cabrera and Willis.

I know you didn't discuss cause here, but that's a really difficult situation for the Jays. The Jays at least pass the duck test for a small-to-mid market team, whether or not you believe them, and as a result, are one of the teams that have a lot to gain from the cartel-like treatment of the draft.

If the draft turns into something more like free agency, as it's close to doing because (at least) the Red Sox, Yankees, Oakland and Tigers are treating it like free agency, the Jays have a lot to lose.

And yes, I did include Oakland in there ... while they don't overpay for slot, they've been known to draft players higher than pegged on the understanding that they'll sign for below slot money - this has a similar effect as the strategy the Yankess and others are using on undermining the cartel. I can't think (am not looking for) a web reference, but it is in Moneyball.

Ron - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 01:09 AM EST (#180728) #

The upcoming draft should be interesting because there are rumblings a lot more teams are going to go above slot. If a blue chip talent falls into your lap, there's no reason to not go above slot. The signing bonuses these HS/College kids receive are so tiny compared to what free agents get. It's frustrating to watch a team like the Tigers go above slot to draft Maybin and Miller and then watched them basically get flipped for Willis and Cabrera. I still have yet to hear a good explanation as to why it's good to not go above slot. There is no punishment for going over and smart teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Tigers take full advantage of the situation.

ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 08:26 AM EST (#180730) #

I still have yet to hear a good explanation as to why it's good to not go above slot.

I'm curious why you see no value in the Jays maintaining the cartel-like nature of the draft. The cost of draft picks right now is obscenely cheap compared to free agents, and there is also much greater access to the talent than if it was treated like free agency.

Make no mistake - as more teams pay above slot, that means the end of the draft - whether in actuality (all players would be free agents), or else in practicality (things would work similar to now, but many more players would name their price before the draft, and the prices would grow higher).

I haven't seen anyone that mentions paying above slot talk about the long-term repercussions of such actions.

Mike Green - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 09:46 AM EST (#180732) #

Teams in the AL East have every reason to go over slot. They are competing against two behemoths who will. It is a funny cartel, in which the two largest "producers" do not participate.

Here's a prediction. The Rays have the #1 pick in 2008, and won't likely need to pay over slot. In 2009, they'll probably be in the middle of the pack somewhere, and I predict that they will pay over slot, if a Porcello or Maybin is available.

ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 10:22 AM EST (#180736) #

Teams in the AL East have every reason to go over slot. They are competing against two behemoths who will.

So what? You still have to prove that the Jays would improve their situation by ignoring slot value and destabilizing the cartel further. Just because others are paying above slot doesn't make it advantageous for the Jays to follow suit.

The primary reason that you can successfully build a team through the draft is because you are able to pay significantly below market value for those players. The only reason that you can pay those players so cheaply is because of the cartel-like power of pay according to slot. For the Yankees and Red Sox, it doesn't matter whether the cartel exists or not, because at least for the foreseeable future, they'll have a higher return on investment per dollar invested in a player due to their market. The Jays can't match that advantage right now, and so they wouldn't be able to compete with those two teams if the draft turns into a free agency-like system.

The draft is very close to becoming a draft in name only. Right now, there are about 15-20% of teams that don't pay slot (Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, A's, and Pittsburgh are teams that come to mind that aren't always paying slot value). It wouldn't take too many more teams to turn the draft into a free-agency like market.

And if teams have to start actually paying a player's value in order to draft him, the increase isn't a few million $ per player - it's closer to $10's of millions of dollars per player.

ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 10:30 AM EST (#180738) #

By the way - it's been bothering me how wrong it sounded when I first typed cartel ... and that's probably because it's not a case of a cartel, but a case of oligopsony (the comment about Yankees and Red Sox being producers in the market is the one that made me realize how wrong my original choice of wording was).

Mike Green - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 10:36 AM EST (#180740) #

ChicagoJaysFan - Friday, March 07 2008 @ 10:45 AM EST (#180743) #

The primary result of the semi-cartel has been more dollars in the pockets of owners. I see no reason why fans in Toronto or Tampa should accept a situation which puts their clubs at a significant competitive disadvantage, but which may benefit the league's owners as a whole.

That's an incorrect, or at least incomplete statement. The result of the current situation is that the draft is a viable way to build a team. That's because players are not paid according to their value, but according to their drafted position. Once that changes, the draft becomes free agency. There is a reason that not all teams can build competitors through free agency and that's because there are higher available ROI's for certain markets.

I'm not saying that owners don't make more money as a result of this situation - you're correct there ... but only because they're able to pay below market value for the players. Once they have to pay market value, which is what happens if everyone ignores slot value, the draft becomes no different than free agency.

Look, I'm against the draft on moral grounds, but as far as helping the Jays build the winner, I haven't been convinced that weakening the draft would help.

Ron - Wednesday, March 12 2008 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#180958) #

"I'm curious why you see no value in the Jays maintaining the cartel-like nature of the draft. The cost of draft picks right now is obscenely cheap compared to free agents, and there is also much greater access to the talent than if it was treated like free agency.

Make no mistake - as more teams pay above slot, that means the end of the draft - whether in actuality (all players would be free agents), or else in practicality (things would work similar to now, but many more players would name their price before the draft, and the prices would grow higher).

I haven't seen anyone that mentions paying above slot talk about the long-term repercussions of such actions."

I have no problem with the free market deciding what a drafted player is worth. We already have a more open system when it comes to international signings. To make up for the fact some teams will continue to not pay above slot, draft picks should be allowed to be traded. I found it silly that Selig and company actually dropped the recommended slot bonuses by 10% last season.

I could care less if every team goes above slot since it's not my money. It's a hard pill to swallow to watch some teams grab premium talent because they are willing to go over while a team like the Pirates didn't want to go over slot and grabbed Moskos.BTW the small market Pirates are one of the teams that said signing bonus demands would no longer be one of the biggest factors in determining whether to draft a player or not.

ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, March 12 2008 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#180960) #

I have no problem with the free market deciding what a drafted player is worth. We already have a more open system when it comes to international signings. To make up for the fact some teams will continue to not pay above slot, draft picks should be allowed to be traded. I found it silly that Selig and company actually dropped the recommended slot bonuses by 10% last season.

I could care less if every team goes above slot since it's not my money. It's a hard pill to swallow to watch some teams grab premium talent because they are willing to go over while a team like the Pirates didn't want to go over slot and grabbed Moskos.BTW the small market Pirates are one of the teams that said signing bonus demands would no longer be one of the biggest factors in determining whether to draft a player or not.

In general, you're not addressing the issue of how the Jays should act in relation to paying above slot and what the fallout is, but are looking at baseball in general. But I'll still address what you said regardless.

For starters - I completely agree with the abolition in the draft. There was a civil war fought over a hundred years ago about people not being the property of others - as with baseball's great tradition, it seems lax to pick up on this advancement of human rights.

However, with regards to the Jays - the current draft system works to their advantage, as I stated above, and which you didn't address any of those issues.

As to the specific issues that you did raise:

We already have a more open system when it comes to international signings.

Which teams end up grabbing all these players?

To make up for the fact some teams will continue to not pay above slot, draft picks should be allowed to be traded.

Why would anyone trade for a draft pick if teams continue to pay above slot? In a simplified argument about this - right now the Yankees, Tigers, et al get players because they drop down after other teams don't want to meet their demands. Why would they want to give up anything in order to get something that's already dropping to them?

I found it silly that Selig and company actually dropped the recommended slot bonuses by 10% last season.

Why? Baseball has an antitrust exemption, why shouldn't they use it to lower costs?

I could care less if every team goes above slot since it's not my money.

Until teams stop following a budget, you should care about how your team spends money because it dictates how competitive they'll be.

BTW the small market Pirates are one of the teams that said signing bonus demands would no longer be one of the biggest factors in determining whether to draft a player or not.

Given how poorly the Pirates are run, I'd say that is evidence towards paying slot being a good idea.

Hey, A Real Live Fake Game! | 126 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.