Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
Although they were ahead for most of the night, I never thought the Jays were going to win that one.


David Singh has the wrap of last nights loss to Oakland at the official site including the requisite vote of confidence in Accardo from Gibby.  As is a couple of late losses in a row weren't bad enough, the Jays are off to Texas after tonight's games, and for this club, good things just don't happen in Arlington.

On a more worrying note Blair reports that the club are infringing on the rights of some ticket holders to watch their ninth Innings collapses in a blissful alcoholic haze . There will be no beer sales in the 500 level for any more of the $2 Tuesday games, and there will be enhanced pat-down security at the gates.

Game Day today as Shaun Marcum looks to play stopper against Dana Eveland who is coming off a great start against the Indians last week (7 IP, 1 ER, 7 Ks, 1 BB).
RC 7:07 PM.
TDIB 10 April 2008 | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
greenfrog - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 09:27 AM EDT (#182446) #
Some commentators (Mike Wilner, for example) talk about the need to rack up wins by dominating the lesser teams of the AL. (The issue comes up because the Jays are playing a few of those teams in April: Oakland, Texas, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, KC.) The problem is that there are few easy games in the AL. Winning teams have to play consistently well over the course of the season. You can't flub a bunch of games and then hope to make all the ground up against the lesser teams. It hasn't worked that way in recent seasons; I don't think it will this time around either.

John Northey - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#182447) #
Dominating the weak is a nice concept but the key to winning is to not waste opportunities. Last night they scored 3 in the first and had a wild rookie on the mound yet some guys kept swinging at first pitches and giving him quick innings leading to no more runs after that one inning.

Seemed a real shame to lose after seeing McGowan get out of that mess in the 5th - a great, great sign there seeing McGowan gut it out of a bases loaded none out situation without giving up a run. I'm glad Gibby took him out after that as now McGowan can build on that next start.
chips - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#182448) #
I was watching the body language of Accardo before his first pitch and I observed that he didn't appear very confident. I can only imagine where is confidence level is now.
Pistol - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#182450) #
That was a game where I thought Rolen would have made the difference.  Scutaro flubbed a grounder and then threw the ball away trying to throw the runner out at home when a DP was a real possibility (unless the runner at 1st was running and there was no play at 2nd... never really saw that on the replay).

But having said that the Jays escaped a lot of tough situations they probably shouldn't have.  Of course, they should beat up on soft tossing, rookie LHPs too.

Carlson up and Randy Wells out.

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#182451) #
I haven't heard anything here about Randy Wells down here - actually, his absence in the organization has largely gone unnoticed by the Cubs faithful in my neighbourhood (which is close enough to Wrigley to hear the crowd).

On the topic of the Cubs / Blue Jays players - a small, but growing minority, of fans are starting to think he should supplant Pie as the starting CF.
Leigh - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#182452) #
The issue comes up because the Jays are playing a few of those teams in April: Oakland, Texas, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, KC.

There is nothing weak about this A's team - I'd say its at or above the AL median.
Mike Green - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#182453) #
...although anything less than 2 out of 3 at home while missing Harden and Blanton must feel like a wasted opportunity.
RhyZa - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#182454) #
The thing that I've come away with most is the selfless, gritty approach that the A's have had at the plate in comparison to the Jays.   I feel winning teams need to play as a team in all facets, and that goes for situational hitting or grinding out AB's to set the table for the next guy, rather than just going for the all or nothing glory shot every time. 
Chuck - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#182455) #

The thing that I've come away with most is the selfless, gritty approach that the A's have had at the plate in comparison to the Jays.

I ask the following in all seriousness, not rhetorically. Is this "gritty" work-the-count approach demonstrated by many of the A's hitters truly selflessness, or is this just the m/o that these particular hitters need to employ to perform?

Is Jack Cust, who is currently not hitting (but is walking) working the count to behave selflessly? Or is this just the way he needs to play the game to have a job? By working the count he (a) offsets his typically low batting average with lots of walks, thereby salvaging his OBP and (b) sets up favourable counts so he can be in more optimal positions to get hits. If Jack Cust did not work the count, he wouldn't have a job (nor would he have had enough success in the minors to create the opportunity for a job in the majors).

ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#182456) #

On the topic of the Cubs / Blue Jays players - a small, but growing minority, of fans are starting to think he should supplant Pie as the starting CF.

Of course that would have been more informative if I'd mentioned it was Reed Johnson I was referring to as a potential starting CF.
SheldonL - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#182457) #
Reed Johnson's a very valuable center fielder. If he gets the full-time gig, he can easily win a Gold Glove. Even if he hits his career marks of .282/.343/.410, he's still a notch above average. Good stuff Reed!

Carmona just signed an Aaron Hill-type deal which looks to be the benchmark for future non-arbitration eligible kids.
I think we should jump on the bandwagon and lock up Marcum and McGowan. Both of these guys have demonstrated the ability to get hitters out and in my opinion it's a very good risk to take.
Considering the inflation for serviceable FA pitchers, the deals pan out even if Marcum and McGowan are reduced to the likes of Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano.
Go get 'em, JP!

PS: The Rockies-Braves game got postponed due to snow... does anyone know if this means Sportsnet will broadcast the make-up game or if they fill today's 3-6pm time slot with another game?
What's Sportsnet's (or TV's, in general) policy on rainouts (or in this case, snowouts!).
Magpie - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#182458) #
Marco Scutaro, telling the San Francisco Chronicle why he's happy to have moved from Oakland to Toronto:

"There it's Moneyball; they don't believe in stolen bases or bunts and stuff like that," Scutaro said about the A's. "Here, it's a totally different game."

Did somebody's head just explode?

Oh, and Reed Johnson's chances of winning a Gold Glove playing centre for the Cubs are roughly equivalent to his chances of winning the Triple Crown. Either one of them.



ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#182459) #
Reed Johnson's a very valuable center fielder. If he gets the full-time gig, he can easily win a Gold Glove. Even if he hits his career marks of .282/.343/.410, he's still a notch above average. Good stuff Reed!

Unless I'm mistaken, a 95 OPS+ (Reed's career .282/.343/.410) is below average, not above.
Mike Green - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#182461) #
My head didn't explode, Mags, but I did reflexively check where the Jays stood in SB and CS among the league's 14 teams in 2007.  The answer: 13th and 13th.  Which I suppose is better than 13th and 1st....



Dave Rutt - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#182462) #
The answer: 13th and 13th.

Well, Oakland was 14th and 14th, so maybe Marco has a point!
HollywoodHartman - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#182463) #
Keith Law said in his chat today that he believes the Jays will be one of the last teams to start paying over slot. In my opinion this is terrible news for the Jays as an organization. They had no problem handing out enormous contracts to AJ and BJ. I'm sure Bud wasn't happy about that either. This will simply cost a fraction of the price. By paying over slot in 2 straight years the Tigers were able to get Miguel Cabrera!
Ryan Day - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#182464) #
Keith Law also said there was no way Vernon Wells was going to re-sign with the Jays, so I don't have a great deal of faith in his predictions.

But even that aside... Travis Snider signed for slot money. The entire universe thinks Ricciardi should have drafted Tulowitzki over Romero, but Tulowitzki signed for slot. And if you want to go back a few years, Alex Rios was regarded as a cheapo signability pick.

Paying over slot is one way to success, but it's not the only one.

SheldonL - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#182465) #
Reed Johnson's got amazing range in the outfield and a very strong arm - perhaps the strongest of all the centerfielders in the NL. Andruw Jones and Mike Cameron are virtual locks to win Gold Gloves if they stay healthy all year. So Reed's just got Aaron Rowand, Carlos Beltran and Jim Edmonds to contend with.
Either way, the defense he provides at the position is on par with Gold Glove calibre.

Given that, his offensive stats make him an above average CF.

Here's a look at the CF in the NL(+ mean above average, 0 average, - below average):
Mets Beltran +
Braves Kotsay 0
Phillies Victorino +
Marlins Maybin -
Nationals Milledge 0
Reds Patterson 0
Astros Bourn 0
Brewers Cameron +
Pirates McLouth 0
Cardinals Ankiel 0
D-Backs Young +
Rockies Taveras 0
Dodgers' Jones +
Padres' Jim Edmonds +
Giants' Rowand +

So I've counted about 7 above average CF's and I think Johnson could provide similar D and offence as Rowand, Edmonds and Cameron.
So all in all, the Cubs have a pretty darn good CF!
CaramonLS - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#182466) #
So in your estimation there is only 1 below average CF in the NL?  Doesn't that assumption fly in the face of the definition of average?
ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#182468) #
Reed Johnson's got amazing range in the outfield and a very strong arm - perhaps the strongest of all the centerfielders in the NL. Andruw Jones and Mike Cameron are virtual locks to win Gold Gloves if they stay healthy all year. So Reed's just got Aaron Rowand, Carlos Beltran and Jim Edmonds to contend with.
Either way, the defense he provides at the position is on par with Gold Glove calibre.


Upon what are you basing his amazing range and very strong arm?

Does Reed's range factor in CF count for nothing?  He's well below average at CF in the 68 games he's played there in his career.

I can't seem to find out any UZR stats for Reed in CF, but there are a lot of comments out there in bbtf and other places that refer to him as scoring well below average in UZR at CF as well.

I see almost the opposite of you - I see a below average CF with either the glove or bat and think great 4th OF, which is exactly what he's doing right now.
Chuck - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#182469) #
It's like Lake Wobegon has got its own baseball league.
Dave Rutt - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#182473) #
So in your estimation there is only 1 below average CF in the NL? Doesn't that assumption fly in the face of the definition of average?

Not to mention that the only "below average" CF in the NL is in AA!
Chuck - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#182474) #
Not to mention that the only "below average" CF in the NL is in AA!

That's what the bastard deserves for being below average!
Magpie - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#182478) #
It's not just the centre fielders anyway. Jeff Francoeur leads the league in BaseRunner Kills and actually makes more plays than a lot of centre fielders. He's only just started his collection of Gold Gloves, whch promises to be Extensive.bv
RhyZa - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#182485) #
I ask the following in all seriousness, not rhetorically. Is this "gritty" work-the-count approach demonstrated by many of the A's hitters truly selflessness, or is this just the m/o that these particular hitters need to employ to perform?

Ok, for arguments sake I will agree with you, in fact, yes you're probably right the A's do need to play that way but my contention is so do the Jays.   Remove selfless away from my statement and what do you have left -   my point that my observation tells me that contending teams need to have the ability to work the count and make the pitcher work to not let him off the hook when they either have him on the ropes, or are close to that point.   If stats prove me wrong, then I'd like to see them.  It could likely just be frustration talking, but I think the guys need to trust each other a little more as a batting unit instead of uppercutting the hell out of a pop up.
scottt - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#182487) #
We finally get to see a lefty, but Eveland has had reverse split numbers every year of his short major league career.

Shoot!

Thomas - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#182490) #
Upon what are you basing his amazing range and very strong arm

I would say Johnson's got both a strong and accurate arm. It's not among the absolute best in the league, but it's quite good. Other than though, I agree with the rest of your post. Johnson can play center and is serviceable there, but he doesn't compare to the league's best or even the league's above average. And I'm as a strong a Johnson defender as you'll find (perhaps aside from Sheldon).

Jimbag - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#182500) #
Okay, I missed the 9th and 10th innings (phone call that I had to take) - but were Coats and Stairs not on the bench? Could Stairs have pinch-hit for Scutaro (better chance at a sac fly hit deep enough to cash in MacDonald), and still have Coats available to play 3rd if it backfired?

Like I said, I didn't see if either of them were inserted in the late innings, but I was really surprised to see Scoots hit in that situation. All he's managed so far this year is walks, and a walk wasn't the recipe for success in that situation.

Thomas - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#182502) #
Okay, I missed the 9th and 10th innings (phone call that I had to take) - but were Coats and Stairs not on the bench?

Stairs had already been used.

AWeb - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#182503) #
Summing up this series for the Jays would probably violate most Box rules for civility, so I'll leave it at ----- ---- ----!!! Blown leads, blown opportunites, excruciating teases seemingly every late inning; I'm glad a series like this happened in April, so I can forget about it later in the year.

Ishai - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#182505) #
Fair-weather fans, like many Jays fans are ('box excluded), have a limited quotient of painful losses they will endure before they go somewhere else because it isn't worth the discomfort. Those were three, really tough losses; enough to destroy a casual fan's interest and a dedicated fan's soul.

But at least the games are dramatic...
And Carlson got a strikeout...
VBF - Friday, April 11 2008 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#182509) #
I am not a Eckstein hater and I think he's a great clubhouse guy, but he should NOT be hitting first. Buck Coats would have been a perfect 11th inning pinch hit candidate. Meanwhile, Hill continues to hit balls on the ground in front of everyone slow.

This team lacks something. I hope it's Ryan and Rolen.

Oh and the team has just announced that they will be called the 'Tallets', a statue of Brian Tallet will be erected outside gate 8, and that the next 75 home games will be Brian Tallet t-shirt days.

Jimbag - Friday, April 11 2008 @ 02:50 AM EDT (#182514) #
Ah, I didn't see Stairs get used - it sucks living on the west coast since I miss the first 3 or 4 innings, and am too often interrupted late in games.

I'm not knocking the team in any way, but I think this 3 game set pretty much sums up what Halladay was talking about - the need to focus for EVERY series. I thought the Jays looked good against the Yankees, even though they only won 1 game, and they looked good vs. the Sox, obviously - but they just looked sloppy and unfocused the past 3 days. Defensive lapses, inability to take advantage of chances, and a lot of "ah, whatever" at-bats. It almost makes me wonder if they need a bench-clearing brawl or something to really unite them - like maybe Litsch should stick it in somebody's ear and see what develops....I almost wonder if Gibbons is partly to blame for the laid-back attitude (then I remember him and Lilly scrapping in the tunnel)...I don't know, it just seems like this is a nice, somewhat competitive team that needs that element of nastiness to put them over the top. Maybe Gibbons should force them to watch a highlight reel of Wendel Clark, Rick Tocchett, Cam Neely, etc. on the next flight to inspire them.

Anyway, as far as "fairweather fans" go - I'll be at the series with the M's Canada Day weekend, and will be in Toronto to see the Jays in September (need to iron out details with friends and compare that to the sched to determine dates) - and pretty much will see every televised inning of Jays baseball this year that doesn't interfere with my real life - just like I have been doing since TSN first started televising games almost every night. I know it would be great to create an early buzz in the Toronto market to get more fans out to the games (8 dollar seats? What the heck else can you possibly find for a better value out there? You can barely get Vancouver Canadians seats for that, and they're single A) but the truth of the matter is that Toronto belongs to the Leafs...the fans that show up because it's hip to be seen at a Jays game while they're in the hunt will abandon them with the first 3 game losing streak. It'd be good to have them contend early, but if they look like they have a shot in August and September, that's when it'll be a lot harder to get tickets - that's just the unfortunate reality.

I'm still optimistic, and the return of BJ and debut of Rolen can only help the team. I joked with friends on tuesday that I was mad the Jays wouldn't win 160 games this year, and they didn't get the joke....but this team can still realistically win 90, maybe more if everyone else focuses like Roy. And it wouldn't hurt if they hit Hill second....he's got enough pop and good enough plate discipline to kick Stewart out of that spot.

John Northey - Friday, April 11 2008 @ 07:54 AM EDT (#182515) #
I just keep chanting - one run won-lost is luck more than skill, one run won-lost is luck more than skill -Don't Panic!

Record in 1 run games so far... 0-4
Record in more than 1 run games so far... 4-1

GregJP - Friday, April 11 2008 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#182549) #
I just keep chanting - one run won-lost is luck more than skill, one run won-lost is luck more than skill -Don't Panic!

The thing is that those four games are now gone and what "should" be 2-2 (luck being equal) is 0-4.  The Jays' margin of error for making the playoffs is extremely small.  If they make the playoffs it will likely be right on the number or by a game or two. 


TDIB 10 April 2008 | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.