Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - What Did I Just See?

Here's what I think I saw. The Jays went into a National League and swept the world champs. Vernon Wells had two big hits and a crucial defensive play late in the game.

I believe I'm now required to pee in a cup, right?

The Jays wrap up this little road trip with three games in the other nation's capital. That's right - first in war, first in peace, last in the National League East.

All the other AL East contenders conveniently lost their games yesterday. The Yankees, after dropping two of three against the very same Nationals who host the Jays tonight, will be in south Florida and hopefully the Marlins treat them with the same respect they just gave the Jays.

The Red Sox host Atlanta at Fenway this weekend - tonight's matchup features Daisuke Matsuzake for the home team and Atlanta counters with Kenshin Kawakami, who hasn't won since he shut down the Jays in Atlanta a month ago.

The Devil Fishies, having just dropped a couple of game in Coors Field, will venture into the Mets' new home. Whatever it's called.

Some folks were pointing out that the UZR numbers indicate that Vernon Wells is, by a mile, a pretty lousy centre fielder. That is indeed what those numbers say. They also say Scott Rolen is a middle of the pack third baseman, and that Derek Jeter is the fourth best defensive shortstop in the league.

All of which may be true.

We were just speaking in another thread about the wonderful Albert Pujols. Here are the career numbers per 162 games for Albert the Great and Some Other Guy:

                G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR  RBI SB BB SO BAVG  OBP  SLG   OPS OPS+ TB GDP   
Albert Pujols  162 703 596 124 199 44  2 42  128  7 93 66 .334 .426 .627 1.053 171 374  20    
Some Other Guy 162 681 587 104 194 39  9 25  104  4 86 37 .331 .417 .559  .976 159 328  13

Pujols is 29 now, and in a few years one would think he'll enter what is politely called his Decline Phase. Barring radical changes in the game, his rate stats - BAVG, SLUG, OBP - should start declining even as his counting stats move into Very Rarefied Territory.

Anyway, alll together, now - YIKES!

(And YIKES again. Some Other Guy is pretty good, too. Wonder how long he lasted.)

Anyway, the Jays have an off day after this road trip. Inter league play continues as Cincinnati comes to town for three games beginning on Tuesday, followed by what will probably be a grumpy and surly Philadelphia outfit.

The Jays will spend the off day holding open workouts for starting pitchers. Do you have your own glove? Is your right arm still attached to your shoulder? J.P. Ricciardi and Cito Gaston would like to meet with you..

Posted by Magpie on Friday, June 19 2009 @ 05:09 PM EDT.

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TamRa - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#201608) #

Zep in AAA makes me happy though.

I do wonder who's going to flesh out the NH rotation (Give K-Rod another chance? Converted relievers?)

I figure the jays rotation can't be in THAT much distress - we thankfully haven't seen the return of Brian Burres.

Sheldon - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#201609) #

It took a while for me to figure out who Some Other Guy was, but then "Duh" it came pretty clearly.

Mylegacy - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#201610) #

Magpie - as to peeing in a cup - I suggest you use a "sterile container" if you want the PEDs to show properly.

I thought the other guy might be Molitor - 'cept I know he never hit near 25 homers on a 162 game basis. - SO - the other guy is Paul Molitor IF he'd used steriods! (Thanks for the sly "pee in the cup" clue - you devil you!). Or not.

Seriously - We've lost Halladay, AJ, Marcum, McGowan, Litsch AND we find a way to replace them with:

Cecil, Mills, Purcey, Ray, Richmond and Romero WITH Castro and Rzepczynski breathing down their necks. Has any team EVER had so many STARTERS - at least adequate - Major League ready in their organization?

JP - well done - SERIOUSLY, well done!

Magpie - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#201611) #

It's not the Performance Enhancing Drugs they're worried about in my case - it's the hallucinogens.

Here's Albert through today, and Some Other Guy at the same age (by which time he'd won 3 MVP awards and finished second in the voting twice.) Quite similar, except Albert hits twice as many home runs. Albert - yes, Albert, incredibly enough - also strikes out twice as often.

                   G   PA   AB   R    H   2B  3B  HR   RBI SB  BB SO  BAVG   OBP SLG   OPS
Albert the Great 1305 5666 4803 999 1603 356  13 342  1035 54 747 531 .334  .426 .627 1.053
Some Other Guy   1218 5392 4688 920 1624 343 115 174   815 49 652 235 .346  .427 .580 1.007

Some Other Guy, as great as he was in his prime, also lasted long enough to post some of the most impressive Counting Stats in the game's history. Will Albert age as gracefully?

TamRa - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#201618) #

Are we supposed to be guessing who Some Other Guy is?

Because it seems to me that The Man probably was a fellow Cardinal...

Anders - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#201619) #

I would have guessed one of two players, though I realized it was the one that made the most sense. Just for fun, another guy:

                 G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR  RBI SB  BB SO BAVG  OBP  SLG   OPS OPS+ TB GDP   
Albert Pujols   162 703 596 124 199 44  2 42  128  7  93 66 .334 .426 .627 1.053 171 374  20    
Other Other Guy 162 692 545 127 188 37  5 37  130  2 143 50 .344 .482 .634 1.116 191 345  14  

That is, I think, not a bad comparison.

Magpie - Friday, June 19 2009 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#201621) #

Albert obviously can't compare with that Other Other Guy - more than half of that career comes when he was older then Albert is now - that's Decline Phase, and lots of it - and the Other Other Guy is significantly better anyway.

But hey - when you can be compared with The Greatest Hitter Who Ever Lived, at any time and in any way, and hold your own and not be embarrassed... you're pretty good.

brent - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 04:18 AM EDT (#201624) #

Here's some food for thought about my theory that Vernon is suffering from sapped power because of his previous injury: let's compare him to Overbay's broken hand.

Vernon Wells has a career average of 25 AB/HR. He is now at 55 AB/HR for this season. His career HR/Fly Ball rate is 9.5% but is now at 4.6% HR/FB.

Keep in mind Overbay has had a different career path than Vernon. He was a late bloomer and had no power his rookie season in Arizona with a 66 AB/HR rate. His career rate is 33 AB/HR but for 2006 28 AB/HR and 2007 26 AB/HR. In 2007 it was 42 AB/HR and 2008 36 AB/HR (It is at 20 AB/HR this season FYI). His career HR/Fly ball rate is 7.5% and in 2007 it was 6.2% and in 2008 it was 6.6% (currently 2009 at 11%).

These kinds of drastic rate drops point that Wells is not in a slump and is not going to come out of it. He needs aggressive rehab of his injured wrist/hand. We already know that Overbay had quit doing his hand exercises when he shouldn't have. That means that the training staff is not all over the players on making sure they have fully recovered from their injuries. There is a proven history of this now.
From this, I conclude that we won't see regular Vernon until next season if he follows Overbay's pattern. If he properly rehabs, he could be back to normal earlier (maybe September).

Magpie - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#201625) #

Here's some food for thought about my theory that Vernon is suffering from sapped power because of his previous injury

I don't think it's like Overbay at all. Overbay was a reduced version of his former self for a year and a half after his hand injury. But Wells - he broke his wrist on May 9 2008 and was out of the lineup for a month. He then played in 72 games last year after the injury, and did all right. More than all right - he hit .309/.341/.524 with 15 HR and 54 RBI.

So unless he injured it again and I missed it, unless the wrist has gotten mysteriously weaker since the end of last season, I don't think that's the explanation. He didn't have surgery on it in the off season.

I don't think there is an explanation, although we always want one and always assume there is one.

I think it's a slump.

James W - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#201627) #

Funny enough, Other Other Guy was my first wild guess at who Some Other Guy was.

... With all the clues given already, why am I still speaking in code?

Magpie - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#201629) #

Well, we've established that Albert the Great can't keep up with the Splendid Splinter- hey, who could? But the battle for the greatest Cardinal of them all has been joined.

For now, the edge still has to go to The Man. I suspect that when Albert is done, we'll be scratching our heads and trying to figure out who was greater. Albert will have a significant power edge (although 475 HRs is a lot), and Musial will have the advantage in other areas.

Gerry - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#201632) #

Brett Cecil got some advice from Brad Penny according to Jordan Bastian. Also Baseball tonight disects Cecil's delivery.

Geoff - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#201634) #

Said it before and I'll say it again: Vernon Wells is having a very good season this year.. outside of Canada.

This road trip reinforces my belief that there is nothing wrong with Vernon Wells. There is something wrong with something in Toronto.

and where is this dissection of Brett Cecil?

Geoff - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#201635) #

silly me, the dissection is in the video on the mlb.com page with Bastian's article linked above.

TamRa - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#201639) #

Every time I ask it turns out to be someplace real obvious but...

Anyone got a link to the Scutaro steaks on a walk video?

Flex - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#201640) #

WillRain, here's the link I found:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5111035

budgell - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#201641) #

Ahhh, Stan the Man. Best baseball stat ever!?

3630 hits....1815 at home....1815 on the road

Gerry - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#201643) #

What Did I Just See?

Russ Adams maybe. Adams has been called up and Inglett sent down. Adams is not in the AAA line-up tonight so this may have been decided earlier today. I assume Adams will fill a utility role, he has been playing shortstop in AAA since he came back from an injury.

chris_jays - Saturday, June 20 2009 @ 11:33 PM EDT (#201644) #

Great decision in my adams to bring up adams.

I was hoping the jays weren't going to call up Dellucci regardless of how he did in the minors

Adams could be a decent option at DH but hopefully he doesn't rot on the bench like Inglett did.

I'd like to see Adams in at DH vs. RHP.

TamRa - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#201645) #

Cito, baby...if Dirk isn't your long man then why the hec is he on the team? You have to turn to a STARTER rather than use him? Seriously?

Anyway, nice to see Russ get a chance - although I've felt good about that before only to watch him fritter it away. i think I'll take a wait and see approach this time.

Frank Markotich - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#201646) #

Well, Dirk may be the long man, but he's not very good and the Blue Jays were trying to win a tight game. Long men aren't typically used in high leverage situations.

I'm guessing Hayhurst comes in as a last resort if the game is still tied and Richmond has gone a couple of innings.

The_Game - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#201647) #

Chris, there is no reason to think the Jays won't be bringing up Delucci eventually.

China fan - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#201648) #

Dellucci managed a double in four at-bats yesterday, but he's still batting only .222 for Las Vegas. It might be quite a while before he becomes the obvious choice to bring up to the Jays. Russ Adams, by contrast, is having a fine season. If he can keep it up in the majors for a while, he's a much better choice than Delucci because of all the positions he can play.

TamRa - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#201650) #

Hayhurst hasn't done anything this year to earn the description "he isn't very good" except fail as a starter in the PCL. Cito was the guy that pretty much insisted on having him here based on a great ST, he was quite good out of the pen in Vegas, and he's pitched well in the majors.

I don't see him any less able to handle high leverage than a starter who's on his second day of rest. At a minimum, if you assume you can't use him in higher leverage situations you hamstring yourself on your bullpen useage.

scottt - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#201651) #

It's not a bad idea to save a long relief arm when the whole pen is overworked.

Didn't take long for Adams to get his first hit of the year. A pinch hit single? How many of those did we get last 2 games?

China fan - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#201652) #

Nice to see Cito throwing Adams right into the game in his first game back, in the first pinch-hitting opportunity. And nice to see Adams getting a hit in his first at-bat. Wouldn't it be great if Adams finally gets it all together, at the age of 28, and finally fulfills all that promise he once had? (Small sample size alert.)

Also very nice to see Rios and Wells thriving offensively in recent days. Maybe the low-pressure 6th spot in the lineup is the best spot for Rios after all?

Another great game for Overbay -- five RBIs and his OPS is up to .939 on the season.

Not so nice to see ANOTHER pitching injury tonight. How many is that now for the season, about a bajillion?

ayjackson - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#201653) #

While Adams may not fulfill his promise, at 28, he may have a career year - which could be useful.

Gerry - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#201654) #

Bastian says that Accardo had a cramp in his calf, he was probably dehydrated.

Sano - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#201655) #

How on earth does someone get a cramp after sitting for hours and then throwing, what, 7 pitches? Unbelievable. That's just plain stupid. Dehydration? Really? They're not drinking enough out there in the bullpen?

Romero was seriously playing with fire the whole way through from Gameday. He had guys on base in the first 4 innings I think.

Flex - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#201656) #

Sano, excellent work finding something to complain about.

brent - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 08:08 PM EDT (#201657) #

Hmm.... six weeks from the trade deadline. I wonder what JP's threshold will be to decide whether to go for it, hold or be sellers. I think he needs to buy or sell but not just hold (which is probably what he will do). The team has two players that could be close to type-A free agents in Barajas and Scutaro. By the end of the season, I doubt either will be Type-A. Unless you can sign a reasonable contract with Marco, he could be worth a lot if the Jays are sellers. Furthermore, nobody is going to sign them as their best type-a free agent (like Burnett with the Yankees).

This should be very interesting to see how many games back the Jays are if JP decides it is worth it to go for a playoff run.

scottt - Sunday, June 21 2009 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#201658) #

You never know. Players often seem to have their career year during a contract year. Speier never looked like a type-A to me neither.
There's more flexibility in signing pitchers then guys who can only play one position. It's hard to know what the offer for these guys will be, but they are both underpaid this year.

Right now the Jays are 1 game short of the wild card behind the Yankees. Really need to let July play out before trading anybody away. Conversely, if you want to get someone, the sooner the better. I don't know if they have enough starting pitchers to finish the year, but that's always hard to get. LF/DH is a better option, but it might not matter if they run out of arms in August.

zeppelinkm - Monday, June 22 2009 @ 06:26 AM EDT (#201660) #

Is Sabathia's apparently minor injury a sign of things to come for the Yankees? I would say the significance of his injury would be of great relevance to the Jay's plans and fortunes.

Sano - Monday, June 22 2009 @ 09:04 AM EDT (#201661) #

That's a bit harsh Flex. The pitching staff has been decimated by injuries and then one of our pitchers gets dehydrated!? You have to admit that's a bit ridiculous. It was more an expression of exasperation more than anything else anyways.

With regards to the trade rumuors, I'm getting the feeling that JP will never pull the trigger on a trade which involves one of the prospects we have hope for. He just values the cheap prospect much more than veterans with, possibly, bigger salaries. JP's not a fan of the 'blockbuster'...

brent - Monday, June 22 2009 @ 09:47 AM EDT (#201663) #

The thing is that we have never had a chance to find out. JP has never been a buyer at the deadline. The team has never showed itself to be good enough near the deadline to do this. In my mind, I am wondering whether JP will jump at the chance this season just because this is his first opportunity to be in a race. Perhaps he will just stick with the plan for contention next year, but will the same opportunity be present....

ayjackson - Monday, June 22 2009 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#201668) #

You deal from strength and our farm has never been a strength.

Sano - Monday, June 22 2009 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#201687) #

How many years in a row has the refrain now been "contention next year?"

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