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The Dome's pretty quiet at 5:15.


The Jays are wrapping up their BP - the night's scrubeenies (Bautista, Millar, McDonald, and Chavez) each take their six hacks and scurry out of the cage, waiting their next turn. The Yankees are on the field, engaged in group stretches and calisthentics, waiting for the Jays to vacate the field at 5:30 so they can get their hacks in...

Hey - I had some errands to run on my way to the ball park. They didn't take nearly as long as I expected! Time to kill...

Sergio Mitre takes his 11-23 career record to the hill for the Yankees. One of those 11 wins, you may recall, came back in June 2005 when he tossed 7 innings of two-hit shutout for the Cubs to beat Roy Halladay himself, back when Doc was having the year of his life. Mitre is filling in for Chien-Ming Wang, much to the chagrin of Aaron Hill , who hits Wang better than any other pitcher he's ever seen. Needing someone to fill in, the Yankees looked over the available bodies at Scranton-Wilkes and decided to go with Mitre.  He was 3-1, 2.40 in 7 starts. They had other options - we all remember Kei Igawa (9-4, 3.91 in 20 starts). And still hanging in there, awaiting the call, the one and only Josh Towers (4-6, 3.78 in 14 starts.)

B.J. Ryan may have been cut loose by the Cubs - he got into 5 games for Iowa. He didn't allow a run or a hit in his 5.2 innings. He did walk 5 guys while striking out 4.

Russ Adams, of course, signed on with San Diego - an organization that seems determined to divest itself of everyone who remotely resembles a major leaguer. Clever, Russ. But you're going to have to hit a lttle bit in Portland to make this well thought-out strategy work for you. Not happening yet - he went 7-30 in his first 9 games, and then missed a couple weeks with another injury. He returned last night and went 0-4.
Game Day | 55 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#204094) #
Get in line at the cage and take some hacks yourself, Mags!
Gerry - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#204095) #

It looks like the Cubs released BJ Ryan today according to a "tweet" from Gordon Wittnmyer.

Ryan asked for his release and was granted it today. Felt his velocity and sharpness wouldn't get there.

Chuck - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#204097) #
Get in line at the cage and take some hacks yourself, Mags!

Maybe Cito will bat you clean-up.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#204098) #
6:39 - Rzepcynski comes out of the dugout with Arnsberg and Barajas. Doing some running in the outfield for now.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#204099) #
6:42 - Rzepcynski and Barajas playing catch, about 45 feet apart.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 06:39 PM EDT (#204100) #
6:44 By now Rzepcynski has backed up to about 90 feet away from Barajas. All the Jays starters warm up this way. In a couple more minutes, his back will be at the outfield wall.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#204101) #
6:47 That was quick. Hardly any long toss at all. Off to the bullpen they go...
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#204102) #
6:51 A starter's warm-up is much, much more leisurely than a reliever's. A reliever in the pen is get-the-ball-back and throw it again instantly. A starter kicks the dirt, chats with the coach, throws another pitch... Plenty of time!
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#204105) #
By the way - my dumb and pointless ballpark project tonight. How many baseballs do they go through in the course of the game?

Well, at least 17, obviously. At the conclusion of each inning, the umpire tosses a fresh one out to the mound for the next pitcher to pick up and use. I'm counting 'em!

Dewey - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#204106) #
Good project, Magpie.  I've often wondered that myself.  Then, how many
ML games are played in a year X the number of balls you come up with? 
Sounds like a big business somehow, the making-baseballs business. 
Spring Training.  All the minor leagues.  My god, the U.S. is awash in
baseballs!  Does Congress know about this?
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#204107) #
And why are they replaced? Does the pitcher want a new one? Is it because they touched the dirt once? I'm on it!
Chuck - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#204108) #
Rolen, back in the Reds lineup after getting beaned, has homered. With a win tonight, the win-now Reds will pull to within just 15 games of .500.
damos - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#204109) #
Adam Lind is kind of the best. 
mathesond - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#204110) #
I seem to recall reading some years back that the home team was responsible for supplying something along the lines of 120 balls for each game. In contrast, NFL home teams have to have 24 balls on hand.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#204113) #
You know what irritates me more than Millar batting cleanup?

Having our two backup infielders platoon in left field. An unsual piece of roster construction. Where is Dave Berg these days?
Frank Markotich - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#204114) #
Magoie, since you're at the game perhaps you can explain to me how Inglett contrived to not get to that "single" by Matsui. Watching on tv, it looked like it was hit so high that Helen Keller would have made the play.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#204115) #
I don't know. Off the bat, I thought it was an out. He was playing deep, he took an odd route, and I don't think he thought he ever had a play. He just didn't seem to be moving very quick. And then he puts his throw ten feet off line.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#204116) #
I guarantee that somewhere someone is calling Gaston all kinds of names - fool, idiot, moron - for not having Millar pinch hit there!

Not me, mind you!
Magpie - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#204117) #
They used around 90-91 baseballs tonight.
TamRa - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#204118) #
Just when you figure David Purcey's AAA issues are all about the home/road splits....he gives up five runs in the first inning (on 4 hits and 4 walks) tonight in Omaha.

*sigh*

Bigfoot is going to piddle away any little value he has left if he doesn't get it together REALLY soon. At this point, I wonder if he'll even get any September starts after Cecil and Zep have to be shut down (which a few good ones up here would really help maybe give us a chance to flip him for some other guy who's not lived up to his billing for whatever reason.

Almost Every time he pitches he's losing value.


Jim - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#204120) #
Purcey has no value.  Teams hate pitchers who can't throw strikes.
TamRa - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#204125) #
Since May 18, only Washington and Kansas City have worse records than  the Jays.

On June 26 the Jays were one game out of the wild card and had been 14-11 (a pace that works out to 90 wins over a full season) since the nine gamer, and one could reasonably have supposed that the streak was a fluke.
So maybe dating it from May 18 isn't really fair.

So from June 26 until tonight, the worst teams in the majors according to games under .500:

K.C. - 15
Cinn - 13
Pitt. - 12
Tor. - 11

Maybe Cito's in game tactics are not a firing offense but traditionally managers get fired when there team sucks. Gibby was fired after a 17 game stretch of sucky baseball.

And by the way, over the last 30 games coming into tonight, the Jays collective ERA was 4.01 (which is better than what all but one AL team has posted on the season as a whole, and better than what the Jays themselves have posted on the whole season - and Cito is supposed to be strong on the hitting side of the game.

Am I saying that Cito needs to be fired now? No. but I'm saying if they don't pull out of this .350 ball pace, it has to be considered at the end of the season.

As an aside, if the Jays continued at the pace of the last 31 games, or the last 66 for that matter, they would finish with 71 wins. for comparison, if the other teams who currently have a worse record than the Jays continue at their pace since May 18, the jays would finish with the 8th worst record in the majors...and just one game behind Cleveland.With some effort they might get into the top 5...

Hey, it worked for the Rays ;)

Eventually.

Parker - Wednesday, August 05 2009 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#204126) #

The Jays weren't competing under John Gibbons, or Carlos Tosca, or Tim "Vietnam Vet" Johnson either.  How many GM's have been allowed to blame their failures on FOUR managers?

 

TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#204130) #
Purcey has no value.  Teams hate pitchers who can't throw strikes.

Yeah, no one ever wanted Al Lieter.

No one want's Clayton Kershaw (5.12 BB/9, Purcey's is 5.11 in Vegas and is 4.67 in his major league career)

All this talk of trading Doug Davis and his multi-million dollar salary is clearly insane sine his BB/9 is 4.59

At least thank god we got rid of AJ Burnett and no one is paying him a crazy salary anymore, what with his BB/9 of 4.43

And before you argue that these are strikeout pitchers, Purcey's major league career K/9 is 8.34

Among the mentioned pitchers (in 2009)...

Kershaw - 8.88
Davis - 7.07
Burnett - 7.98


So yeah - clearly Purcey has NO value at all...

Any fool would rather get worse ratios from Davis and pay more in prospects and shell out almost $3 million for the honor.

TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#204131) #
And, additional to my last post - Davis surely has a better shot at getting better than Purcey does too, right?

Oh well, moving on...

The Jays weren't competing under John Gibbons, or Carlos Tosca, or Tim "Vietnam Vet" Johnson either.  How many GM's have been allowed to blame their failures on FOUR managers?


I wasn't aware that JP hired Johnson.



Spifficus - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 12:18 AM EDT (#204132) #
Johnson wasn't under JP's tenure. Buck Martinez was the manager that he inherited, and he was ousted pretty quickly into the JP era. If I remember right, he was just over-matched as a manager.
Parker - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 01:40 AM EDT (#204134) #
My bad about Johnson.  I guess I just couldn't resist throwing his name in there because of the bizarre controversy.
John Northey - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 02:22 AM EDT (#204135) #
Number of managers is fairly secondary - Gillick had 5 different ones (#3 reached the playoffs once, #4 was a total flop), Ash 4. Beane has gone through quite a few to toss out a higher rep GM.
Jevant - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#204136) #
I haven't been able to find video, but how bad was Vernon's pickoff last night?  I've heard it was a benchable offence, albeit from a Red Sox fan.
Jim - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:30 AM EDT (#204137) #
You can try and convince yourself that Purcey has value, but he doesn't.  His own organization is ignoring him.  

Kershaw is 21 and his numbers are so great this year because he's giving up 6.3 hits per 9.  He's going to have to get the walks under control or he is in for a rude awakening at some point.

Notice there was almost no conversation about Doug Davis at the deadline.  There was a story somewhere that noted a source in the DBacks' org said that the offers could not be worse for him.  I really see next to nothing about him, but if they do trade him that means he cleared waivers... if he's so great why is he clearing waivers. 

Burnett's walks have ticked up this year and he's outpitching his ratios.  A.J. Burnett is 97-81 in the major leagues with a 3.82 ERA. 

Purcey had one good half season at Syracuse, and one good half season in New Hampshire.  His minor league numbers are only decent because of that ridiculously low HR rate.  Look at how that jumped on him in the major leagues. 

Purcey has things in common with the Daniel Cabrera's of the world, not the A.J. Burnett's.



Chuck - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:43 AM EDT (#204138) #
I haven't been able to find video, but how bad was Vernon's pickoff last night?  I've heard it was a benchable offence, albeit from a Red Sox fan.

Wells was out only because Molina's throw was absolutely perfectly located. An inch or two this way or that way and Wells is safe. Wells wasn't napping, but insofar as he did get picked off, he deserves the blame. Was it benchable? I wouldn't say so. This wasn't a blunder of Riosian proportions.

Given the situation (two outs, man on first, as I recall), and given Wells' poor home performance this season, I have no doubt that he had stolen base in mind. That probably led to him straying a little too far.
Jevant - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#204139) #
Thanks.  I'm not in favour of benching players for a small mental mistake, but my source had made it sound like he was chatting with Cano, or something like that, so I was curious. 

It's clear to me that Vernon does care, and he's trying to contribute in as many ways as he possibly can.  I honestly think that if fans in general laid off of him a bit, the production at home would probably increase.

Forkball - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#204141) #
Jays sign Wil Ledezma.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/jays-sign-wilfredo-ledezma.html

When I saw this I almost knew he had to be left handed (without knowing which arm he throws with), and sure enough he is.  Sometimes it feels like the Jays think they get bonus points for finding lefties the way they acquire them in such disproportionate quantity.

ayjackson - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#204143) #
Looks like Cecil's caddy.  Both Cecil and Rzep are roughly at last years innings count right now.  I imagine that Cecil's pitch count for the year is well past last year's total though.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#204144) #
I confess.  Understanding what makes a pitcher succeed eludes me.  I look at Zep, and I see a pitcher who has excellent movement on his pitches and particularly appears to be effective against right-handed hitters.  His K rate was almost 10/9IP in the minors and he has continued that in the majors.  He gets ground balls.  His walk rate in the minors was 3.5/9IP.  His ERA, FIP and xFIP are all good so far. 

I have no idea whether his arm will hold up to 200 innings, but barring injury, I don't see any reason why he cannot be a good pitcher. 

Spifficus - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#204147) #

Purcey has no value.

It sounds like even less-than-none. John Sickles saw the Omaha-Vegas game, and wrote this about Purcey:

**David Purcey had NOTHING and I have to wonder if he was healthy last night. His best fastball was 87 MPH, and his breaking ball was poor. His location was way off and they pulled him from the game after one inning.

Now, I mean sure, we've all seen him wild, and we've all seen his poor breaking ball. Not sure if I've ever seen him throw anything other than a changeup at 87, though (allow for hyperbole).

TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#204148) #
Well now certainly, if he's hurt...or if he has one of those mysterious ailments that seem to arise where a pitcher just suddenly "loses it" sometimes...then yeah, it's certainly possible he has no present value, or maybe he's over.

I don't know.


Before last night, it was pretty severe that he pitched well on the road and crappy at home. Which points to something other than the physical.

but topping out at 87? That has to make you think he's hiding an injury - betcha if he is it's the shoulder too and he's in denial.


TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#204149) #
You can try and convince yourself that Purcey has value, but he doesn't.  His own organization is ignoring him.  

Not if he's injured or he's lost velocity as the above post sugests, and it might be WHY they are ignoring him. I wasn't saying "he has value" in the abstract - hell it was me who said it was crashing in the first place.

I was arguing that the claim he has no value BECAUSE he walks too many ("can't throw strikes") was not an accurate statement.

to the extent he lacks value, it's because he's not getting enough outs, not because he walks too many alone.


Kershaw is 21 and his numbers are so great this year because he's giving up 6.3 hits per 9.  He's going to have to get the walks under control or he is in for a rude awakening at some point.

Yes, Kershaw is in another galaxy from Purcey. But being too wild doesn't mean every team in the league isn't after him and considers him a future ace.


Notice there was almost no conversation about Doug Davis at the deadline.  There was a story somewhere that noted a source in the DBacks' org said that the offers could not be worse for him.  I really see next to nothing about him, but if they do trade him that means he cleared waivers... if he's so great why is he clearing waivers. 

He's not "great" - he's mediocre - but he's been good enough to be a well paid regular fixture in a rotation for a few years now, and that after we kicked him to the curb.


Burnett's walks have ticked up this year and he's outpitching his ratios.  A.J. Burnett is 97-81 in the major leagues with a 3.82 ERA. 


Wait....NOW we are citing AJ's w/l record? After all those years of being told he was a .500 pitcher? Nevermind. Again, not claiming Purcey is or ever will be able to carry AJ's jock talent wise. Just pointing out it's not the walks that make one "unwanted." It tempers enthusiasum and yes, value, but doesn't mean - by itself - a player has none.

whatever has killed his velocity is FAR more damaging.


Purcey had one good half season at Syracuse, and one good half season in New Hampshire.

And one good half-season in the majors


 His minor league numbers are only decent because of that ridiculously low HR rate.  Look at how that jumped on him in the major leagues. 

Purcey has things in common with the Daniel Cabrera's of the world, not the A.J. Burnett's.


I agree. but Cabrera had a LONG leash and had major league value for a few years while he squandered it (I remember more than once hearing jays fans lust after him) Estaban Loaiza would be another decent comparison in some ways.

There is EVERY possibility Purcey never has any major lerague success.

But it won't be wildness alone that kills his value, which was my only point in replying to you.

Spifficus - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#204150) #
I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the velocity unless we get confirming reports of a multi-start drop. Sickles may have had a slow gun that day, or Purcey might have had a bad mechanics day (which would also cause the command issues), or the chewing gum might have let go.

Hurt or not, there are lots of pitchers out there like Purcey (decent velocity with no idea where it's going, and no consistent feel for a second pitch), quite a few can be had for next to nothing. He has more value to this team for what he might become (especially if he has an option year left for next year... haven't looked it up, though) as opposed to trade value.
zeppelinkm - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#204151) #

I think you can boil down Purcey's lack of value to his wildness. He'll never become a MLB regular if he can't learn to control his pitches. The reason Doug Davis is a well paid pitcher, despite just being "average" is because he's managed to do it over 1500+ innings. There is value in that.  

Wildness is more than just walks, it's running counts up and not pitching late into games. It's missing pitches in bad spots as opposed to good spots. This is evidenced by the doubling of his HR rate when he got to the MLB. MLB hitters are a lot better. They're going to punish pitchers who can't throw the ball where they want. Not all aspects of control is found in the walk rate.

Purcey's problem is his inability to locate his pitches. What else can you suggest it is? He has good velocity. His pitches have good movement.

What's left?

Dave Till - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#204153) #
It's ironic that we're mentioning Doug Davis in this conversation: he was a Jay for a while in 2003. At the time, he was an extreme nibbler: kind of a left-handed Josh Towers. I never would have guessed that he would go on to have the career he is now having.

The minors are full of pitchers like Purcey: great stuff, no command. Somebody like that will kill your bullpen, as it takes 100 pitches for that kind of pitcher to get through 5 innings.

Chuck - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#204154) #
Somebody like that will kill your bullpen, as it takes 100 pitches for that kind of pitcher to get through 5 innings.

So true. Look at Scott Kazmir, a polished version of Purcey. He has averaged less than 6 innings in his 140 career starts. And that's the team's ace... at least prior to this year, anyway.
JohnL - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#204156) #

Geez, I hope Griffin doesn't hear about this one. He'd be on this issue for weeks. It confirms everything evil he knows about JP

 

TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#204157) #
He has more value to this team for what he might become (especially if he has an option year left for next year... haven't looked it up, though) as opposed to trade value.

Well yeah, NOW.

But there were moments when a scout might have convinced his GM that there was something there to buy low on.

Especially if we were flipping him for, for instance, Chin-Lung Hu or someone like that.

that's all the sort of trade I was hoping for - underachiver for underachiver.

But it's getting beyond that point unless he strings something together for a while.

Spifficus - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#204158) #
With so many young pitchers and guys coming off injuries, he still has more value to the team since he still has an option year. Even before his last start, that was the case.
Jim - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#204160) #
Will,

I love ya buddy and rarely would I talk about someone's win loss record.  But Burnett has won almost 100 games in the major leagues, Purcey has gotten his brains beaten in. 

I know you said Purcey had a good half season in the majors.  You might want to go back and rethink that...

2008 
3-6 with a 5.58 ERA
2009
5 starts with a 7 ERA

17 starts, 5.96 ERA. 

Where is the good half season?

TamRa - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#204161) #
Where is the good half season?

From July 3 to the end of the season, 2008, Purcey's line was:

57.2 !P, 60 H, 18 BB, 55 K

4.84 ERA (Better than Brian Tallet's ERA this season - better than Joe Saunders whom the Jays wanted - supposedly - in a deal for Doc, better than Brad Penny who holds forth in Boston, among others)

1.35 WHIP (Same as Carlos Zambrano, Brett Meyers, and Rich Harden and better than Ricky Romero right now)

.752 OPS against (Same as what James Sheilds has right now)

8.58 K/9 (Better than David Price, Felix Hernandez, Johan Santana, Josh Beckett and a great many more in 2009)


Now, that's not going to win any awards, but for a rookie, it's pretty good.

jerjapan - Thursday, August 06 2009 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#204162) #
Geez, I hope Griffin doesn't hear about this one. He'd be on this issue for weeks. It confirms everything evil he knows about JP.

JohnL, that link is genius. 
Jim - Friday, August 07 2009 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#204194) #
Ah, the old arbitrary end point game.  His 'half season' then is 10 starts.  He pitched well against Tampa (1 ER in 16 IP) and got beat up by the rest of the league in aggregate.   Then started this year in the rotation and got bombed some more. 

I can play this silly game as well.  Take out the two starts against Tampa and his career major league ERA is....

7.11


Which is better then Wang's 2009 ERA.



TamRa - Friday, August 07 2009 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#204232) #
So in other words, it only counts if it supports what you had already decided was true?

gotcha.



Spifficus - Saturday, August 08 2009 @ 12:44 AM EDT (#204245) #
I think the point was to illustrate how futile arbitrary endpoints are. By pointing out how arbitrary selection indicated that Purcey couldn't hold Tallet's jock strap (ewww), I presume the hope was to dissuade the use of arbitrary selections to rate him. Now, there is validity in saying his first 2 starts last year shouldn't count... and there's an equally valid point to discount the performance of one team since it's so separate from the rest of his performance. So where is the legitimate line?

Either way, it doesn't wipe out the fact that he's been varying degrees of terrible in the majors and hit-and-miss in the minors (even before the last start). Again, that holds less value on the trade market than hoping he turns it around and can be used as depth.
Jim - Saturday, August 08 2009 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#204255) #
My point is you can't say someone had a good half season when in fact they only had 10 starts, and those ten starts consists of 2 very good starts a couple of good ones and some that were absolute disasters. 

The rest of the world has made up their mind about Purcey including the organization that employs him.  If you don't want to let go that's your business, but don't scratch your head when the obvious is pointed out to you.

TamRa - Saturday, August 08 2009 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#204263) #
Now, there is validity in saying his first 2 starts last year shouldn't count... and there's an equally valid point to discount the performance of one team since it's so separate from the rest of his performance.

Rubbish.

how are the points equally valid?

Especially when we are talking about the AL champs and not the Royals?

And as for Jim's description of "half a season" - i was under the impression that three months constituted half a season.

Doesn't matter anyway. There's no point in defending Purcey at the moment because it's 2009 that counts more than 2008.

But one has to wonder, if 2008 WAS so very bad, rekon why Purcey came into and out of spring training firmly entrenched in the Jays rotation based largely on that performance.

Spifficus - Saturday, August 08 2009 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#204265) #
Rubbish on your rubbish.

As soon as you start splitting out such a small sample size into even smaller samples, you lose any semblance of coherency.

As for the calendar issue, he made the first start of the end-of-year stretch on June 26th. The last start of his year was Sept 17th. This isn't even 2 months, let alone 3. That's why it's only 10 starts. Last time I checked, most starters were expected to be north of 30 if they're taking their regular turns for a whole year.

As for 2008, it was meh. Rookie struggles and all that. Neither terrible nor good.
Jim - Saturday, August 08 2009 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#204272) #
Will,

By your insane logic Mark Carreon hit .556 for almost an entire season for the 1988 Mets.  May 11th - Sept 27th.  556/636/1111. 



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