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What have we missed in the past few days? Well ...

  • Sorry, Rangers fans ... Mike Lowell isn't going anywhere (except maybe the hospital) ...
  • Nick Johnson has returned the Bronx, likely to DH and to hit second ...
  • Nothing official yet, but Coco Crisp appears headed to Oakland. Can we start the "Coco/Beane" pun contest yet?
  • Ex-Jay Scott Rolen restructured his deal with the Reds and will earn $6 million in 2010, plus a $5 million signing bonus ... The club, in return, extended Rolen's contract  through 2012. He will earn $6.5 million in each of those two seasons.
  • Mike Gonzalez got a two-year extenstion from the Orioles ... The Phillies exercised the 2011 club option on SS Jimmy Rollins ... Javier Lopez signed with the Pirates, LaTroy Hawkins with the Brewers, Juan Pierre with the White Sox and Hideki Matsui with the Angels ...
    What else did we miss? And what do you think of these or any other possible moves around the sport?
Hot Stove embers still burning ... | 30 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Jim - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 07:11 PM EST (#210146) #
I have no idea why the Reds felt the need to lock up Rolen for his age 37 season...  just bizarre.

When the Jays get around to trading Overbay they will have traded or released each of their 5 highest paid players in 2009 (according to Cot's).  Unless I'm missing something Encarnacion will be their second highest paid player. 

Unless they add some salary late in the offseason there is a good chance that they will be paying as much for Wells/Halladay/Ryan as they are the 39 non-Wells players on the 40 man roster. 

TimberLee - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 08:00 PM EST (#210151) #

I've always liked Nick Johnson's game and he should do well with the Yankees.  Hope the fans there understand the value of a good OBP in front of Teixeira and Rodriguez because Nick isn't your usual DH type.

Are we to assume that the Jays are done major moves before next season, or will they get a corner OF and maybe a relatively inexpensive experienced starting pitcher? 

PeterG - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 08:40 PM EST (#210154) #
There could be a major trade anytime. I believe AA when he says anyone is available but I think that Aaron Hill is more available.  As for FA's, I expect a starting pitcher to be signed sometime before ST.
brent - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 09:23 PM EST (#210157) #
Jim, I think you need to get your head wrapped around restructuring contracts. Think about inflation like calculating winning the lottery and taking a lump sum or the payment paid out over time.
brent - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 10:16 PM EST (#210160) #
BTW Jim, what made you take a year off commenting? You came back this April and have put down 450+ comments since then.
Jim - Sunday, December 20 2009 @ 11:14 PM EST (#210162) #
I don't remember exactly, but I should consider going dark again.

Which 'restructuring' do I need to wrap my head around?  The link didn't work so until I went and googled it I didn't see that the signing bonus is deferred.  I still don't see why you'd want to lock up Scott Rolen for his age 36 and 37 seasons without seeing how his age 35 season goes, but that's Cincinnati Reds baseball for you. 

If the Reds really wanted some payroll flexibility in 2010 there was a perfectly good option available to them:  Don't trade for Rolen in the first place.  Is the American Congress running the Reds?  Just stick that liability into the future for the next front office to have to deal with. 

Mick Doherty - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 12:02 AM EST (#210164) #
Fixed the Rolen story link. Not sure what happened there, sorry about that ...
Jevant - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 11:28 AM EST (#210177) #
They seem to be looking for a innings-eater (in other words, someone whose arm they don't mind destroying to save the arms they want to keep).  I would also certainly hope that we are not looking at a Snider-Wells-Bautista OF on a daily basis, but that seems to be the approach.
Jevant - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 11:31 AM EST (#210178) #
The way the Reds run things, I'd be all over them trying to see if they'd deal us Alonso or Votto for parts.  Might give us a bit of a glut of 1B types (goodness knows we already have enough of those), but if you could grab an impact bat for cheap, you do it.

92-93 - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 02:43 PM EST (#210186) #
The Jays already have an innings eater whose arm they don't mind destroying - Brian Tallet! Solid citizen, deserves the chance.
Chuck - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 03:00 PM EST (#210188) #

I'm not sure that a guy who used to average 60 innings a year and then suddenly logged 160, which pretty clearly taxed his arm, can be considered an innings eater.

PeterG - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 03:39 PM EST (#210193) #
I see Tallet as the long man who will get plenty of work, not as a starter.
John Northey - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 05:05 PM EST (#210195) #
This year could be interesting in the starting inning department.

Right now we have ... (pitcher - peak IP for a season)
Ricky Romero: 178
Brian Tallet: 160.7
Scott Richmond: 138.7
Brett Cecil: 142.3
Marc Rzepczynski: 149.3
David Purcey: 187.3
Robert Ray: 167
Brad Mills: 147.3

Also mixed in are injury recovery cases...
Jesse Litsch:187.3
Shaun Marcum: 168.3
Dustin McGowan: 191.7

So, no one in the potential rotation has hit 200 IP yet.  IIRC they say 30 IP a year is the most you should increase thus Romero, Purcey, Litsch and McGowan (almost for Ray & Marcum) could hit it although Litsch/McGowan/Marcum would not be given a shot due to their injury recover and are unlikely to get 30 starts anyways. 

Best case for the Jays might be having Litsch/Marcum/McGowan ready in July to give a hand to a tired rotation.  Given we have 11 potential starters as is things aren't too bad.  And this isn't factoring in new kids (Zachary Stewart - 105, Kyle Drabek - 158) either. 

I still would love the Jays to attempt the paired up starter idea (2 guys per game get 4 IP each, 4 game rotation using 8 guys with 4 more in the pen to cover that last inning or so) but cannot imagine it is going to happen.

FYI: my pairs would be Romero/Marcum (ace combo), Cecil/Drabek (super potential), Rzep/Stewart (next best potential), Richmond/Purcey (replaceable) with Downs/Frasor/League/Carlson in the pen (Camp, Janssen, Accardo, Hayhurst fighting to make it over League/Carlson or to be injury replacements with Camp and Hayhurst having an advantage due to proven talent to go more than 1 IP and able to go into Richmond/Purcey slot). 
92-93 - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 05:23 PM EST (#210197) #
Litsch maybe, but why can't Marcum make 30 starts? He should be green light and ready to go at spring training, seeing as he was already making starts in August last year. While the Jays may try to limit his workload by not allowing him to go too deep into starts, I don't see the need to skip starts or whatnot, unless he's going through dead arm. I hope the Jays don't sign any mediocre pitchers this offseason, because I like the idea of using our own homegrown talent for an entire season, spreading out the innings and seeing what we have in 10+ arms. It's certainly more exciting to watch as a fan of a rebuilding team than watching retreads like Jon Garland log 200 innings.
Spifficus - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 05:28 PM EST (#210198) #
Yeah, I'd say Tallet is more valuable to the team eating innings in the middle of the game as opposed to the start. Camp as well (and eventually Richmond). Marcum has never been an innings guy, I see Zep as a similarly good-through-six guy, Cecil and Richmond are inconsistent, and Romero is the only relative guarantee to go 6+ (21 of 29 times). Middle relief in general are going to end up being the most important innings on the team, so they don't overtax the young and/or recovering arms. They'll need a few guys that can go 2-3 innings in the middle of a game because in any week, there could be a couple games where the starter leaves in the 4th or 5th due to control issues.
Mylegacy - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 06:04 PM EST (#210199) #
PeterG above mentions that Hill might be a Jay on the trading bloc - he might be right. Hill is 28 - a year and a half older than Lind. AA might just want to trade him for a 20 to 22 year old ubber-prospect who would come up with Wallace and Snider.
greenfrog - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 08:04 PM EST (#210203) #
I think the Jays should hang on to Hill for now. He really helps anchor the defense and is a great role model for the next wave of kids. The Jays also have him under control through 2014 as a result of a very team-friendly contract (with club options in each of the last three years), so there's no need for a salary dump. Who knows--he might also prove to be the Jays' solution at 3B in a couple of years.

Obviously, if some team offered the equivalent of Drabek, Wallace and D'Arnaud for him, the Jays would have to listen. Hill is good, but that sort of offer seems unlikely.
TamRa - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 08:27 PM EST (#210204) #
So, no one in the potential rotation has hit 200 IP yet.  IIRC they say 30 IP a year is the most you should increase thus Romero, Purcey, Litsch and McGowan (almost for Ray & Marcum) could hit it although Litsch/McGowan/Marcum would not be given a shot due to their injury recover and are unlikely to get 30 starts anyways.

If I'm not mistaken, some Jays employee (Dick Scott?) in a BBox interview invoked a percentage figure (as opposed to a firm 30 IP per Verducci) and I think it was 30%

(i.e. you don't want you gu to go 30% over his previous high)

It's worth noting that David Purcey went, in 2008, 182 innings - exactly 30% more than his previous high.

If that's still team policy then you'd have ceilings that looked like this:

Marcum - 218
Romero - 231
Purcey - 243
Zep - 194
Cecil - 185
Rchmond - 181 (although I don't know what his peak innings were in the Indy league)
Ray - 217


92-93 - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 08:38 PM EST (#210206) #
Richmond threw 100 innings at Oklahoma State as a senior (2005), which is basically a "full" college season, and then joined the Edmonton Cracker Cats for another 60 innings out of the pen. The next season (2006) he was a closer of sorts, amassing 70 innings, and another 146 innings in 23 starts in his final Northern League year (2007), when he apparently became a full-time starter. In other words, he should be fine for 180 innings.
Gwyn - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 09:36 PM EST (#210208) #
I see Tallet as the long man who will get plenty of work, not as a starter.

There's going to be quite a lot of extra bullpen work next year I expect.  Doc ate up 239 Innings in 32 starts, that's averaging about 7.5 Innings per start.  If those starts are replaced by a guy pitching say 5 Innings per start that means there are 79 extra Innings needed from the 'pen.  If we're more generous and say that the replacement starts give us 6 Innings a go, that's still 42 more Innings needed.

Spifficus - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 09:53 PM EST (#210209) #

The Dick Scott number was 20%, not 30%. It was when he was asked about whether Henderson Alvarez was shut down.

If those starts are replaced by a guy pitching say 5 Innings per start that means there are 79 extra Innings needed from the 'pen.

This is why Doc is so valuable - not only does he give you awesome starts, but he basically frees up a bullpen slot. Instead of needing another long relief guy, the Phillies will be able to go with another short arm, maybe even another LOOGY, or skip the arm altogether and go for another bench bat.

TamRa - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 09:56 PM EST (#210210) #
Then it apparently wasn't a figure they were married to given Purcey


Spifficus - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 10:03 PM EST (#210211) #
Oh, I wouldn't say so, but that could speak as much to what they thought of Purcey as anything.
Spifficus - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 10:06 PM EST (#210213) #

And He did hedge with 'about'

BB: Henderson Alvarez finished his season early was he shut down?

DS: Yes he was, he reached all the innings he needed this year. We try and keep an eye on the guys innings and limit the increase to around 20% roughly.

Mike Forbes - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 11:55 PM EST (#210217) #
Wow. Brendan Morrow for League + a  prospect? That's what Rosenthal is saying per twitter.
Mike Forbes - Monday, December 21 2009 @ 11:59 PM EST (#210218) #
Seattle fans speculating that Arencibia is also in the deal. No source yet...
85bluejay - Tuesday, December 22 2009 @ 12:17 AM EST (#210220) #

Looks like David Cooper days as a Jay has come to an end - Another 1st. RD. suspect of JP - I guess maybe AA wasn't a fan of this selection.Makes sense

with Wallace in place.

Mylegacy - Tuesday, December 22 2009 @ 12:31 AM EST (#210221) #
Seattle's Brandon is an EXCELLENT TALENT - very much like OUR Brandon - Morrow however walks way too many and at 25 is not a kid anymore. However - I like the guy and this trade. Morrow might be just a "tweak" away from being a star. IF Cooper is the "prospect" no problem - Cooper on his very best day would be Overbay on one of his average days - however without ANY of Overbay's defense.
ramone - Tuesday, December 22 2009 @ 12:35 AM EST (#210222) #
I've been reading alot of speculation that it's Arencibia, I don't like this if it is.
TamRa - Tuesday, December 22 2009 @ 01:20 AM EST (#210230) #
And He did hedge with 'about'

Plus Purcey wasn't exactly young...maybe it goes up some with age.

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