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Sportsnet's Shi Davidi tweets the Blue Jays have called up outfielder Adam Loewen, first baseman David Cooper and pitchers Chad Beck, Kyle Drabek, Danny Farquhar and Strasburg Canada - Brad Mills.  This comes after the Jays activated pitcher Dustin McGowan from the 60-day disabled list and recalled infielder Chris Woodward from Las Vegas over the weekend after a wrist injury to shortstop Yunel Escobar.

Surrey, B.C. native Adam Loewen is back in the bigs for the first time since 2008 when he pitched for the Baltimore Orioles.




Adam Loewen
batted .306/.377/.508 with Las Vegas in 2011 with 46 doubles, four triples, 17 home runs, 85 runs batted in and 11 stolen bases.  The 27 year-old left-handed hitting outfielder hit .303 against left-handed pitching and .308 against righties.  His .306 average this year is 60 points better than his New Hampshire average from last season and 70 points better than his Dunedin performance in 2009.  Loewen was 8-8 with a 5.38 ERA in parts of three seasons with Baltimore.


David Cooper
gets his second cup of coffee in the bigs after winning the Pacific Coast League batting title with a .364 average.  The 24 year-old left-handed hitting first baseman outdistanced Reno's Colin Cowgill (now with the Diamondbacks) by 10 points in the batting race.  His OBP/SLG marks were .439/.535 and he racked up 51 doubles, one triple, nine homers and 96 RBI.  The 2008 first round pick batted just .121 in 13 contests with Toronto back in May but did hit his first home run off Red Sox reliever Daniel Bard before lifting a game winning sacrifice fly to give the Jays an extra-innings victory at the Dome May 10.  Like Loewen, Cooper saw a big increase in his batting average from last season after hitting just .257 with New Hampshire.


Danny Farquhar
will look to make his major league debut with Toronto.  The 24 year-old righty was 4-5 with a 4.70 earned run average out of the 51s bullpen this season.  He pitched 51 2/3 innings and posted a 43-18 K/BB ratio with 14 saves.  Over his last 10 appearances of the season covering 9 1/3 innings, Farquhar posted a 1.93 ERA.  Originally drafted by the Blue Jays in the 10th round back in 2008, the 5-foot-11 hurler was dealt to Oakland with reliever Trystan Magnuson to Oakland in the Rajai Davis deal but was reacquired when the Jays sent lefty David Purcey packing to the Athletics early in the season.


Chad Beck
will also look to sip his first cup of coffee with the team he was originally drafted by.  Taken in the 43rd round of the 2004 amateur draft by Toronto, the 26 year-old righty from Jasper, Texas was taken two years later by the Arizona Diamondbacks out of Louisana-Lafayette in the 14th round.  He was reacquired from the D-Backs in exchange for David Eckstein August 31, 2008. Beck has spent the majority of his time with New Hampshire this season and put up a 7-4 record with a 3.69 ERA.  He pitched 95 innings while striking out 70 and walking 26 over 22 appearances (14 starts).  That earned him a trip to Las Vegas where he made eight starts but he went 2-4 with a 6.70 ERA to go along with an unsightly WHIP of 2.09.


Kyle Drabek
is back with the club but has endured a hellish 2011 campaign.  He won 5 of 9 decisions with the 51s but PCL batters tuned him up for a .355 batting average which resulted in a ERA  of 7.44.  The 23 year-old barely struck out more than he walked over 75 innings with a 45-41 K/BB total.  The one-time favourite of Hitler was 4-5 with a 5.70 ERA with the Jays before being demoted to Las Vegas.


Brad Mills, like Drabek, is also back with the Blue Jays for a second go-around in 2011.  Unlike Drabek, Mills fared better against the PCL by going 11-9 with an ERA of 4.00.  The 26 year-old lefty pitched 157 1/3 innings over 24 starts and struck out 136 batters while walking 39.  He pitched one complete game and was the starting pitcher for the Pacific Coast League in the Triple-A All-Star Game.  Mills was 1-2 with an 8.35 ERA in his first stint with the Jays in 2011.  He suffered a hard-luck loss against Derek Holland and the Texas Rangers at the Dome July 30 when he allowed just two runs over 7 innings.  He did earn a win in Baltimore in his next start as he allowed three runs over 5 1/3 innings.  However, he got whacked for six runs over three innings in each of his next two starts and that led to a return trip back to Lost Wages.  He struck out 18 batters over 18 1/3 innings but his WHIP was 1.75.


Dustin McGowan
has battled his way back to the bigs after labouring away with Dunedin and New Hampshire this season.  Over 12 total starts (seven in Dunedin), the 29-year old righty was a combined 0-4 but his ERA was 2.80 and he struck out almost batter an inning with 35 whiffs in 35 1/3 frames while walking 14.  Opponents hit just .238 against him.  McGowan looks to improve on his 20-22 career record in the bigs and whittle down his 4.71 ERA.


Chris Woodward
gets another sip of the java with the Jays this season.  He saw action in four games early in the season and was 0-for-4 and made an appearance in Monday's extra innings victory against Boston.  The 35 year-old Woodward scored the winning run in a pinch-running appearance when John McDonald belted a walk-off two-run homer to sink the Tampa Bay Rays at the Dome April 22.  The veteran infielder batted .296/.353/.474 with Las Vegas with 32 doubles, two triples, 15 homers, 63 RBI and four stolen bases.  A career .240 hitter in the bigs, Woodward has spent 7 of his 12 seasons with the Jays.


MLB Trade Rumors reports the Jays have released lefty Brian Tallet.  He was designated for assignment after taking the loss against Baltimore in his lone appearance August 30.  He returned to the club from St. Louis in the Colby Rasmus deal in late July.
Loewen Be Hold-September Call Ups! | 111 comments | Create New Account
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TamRa - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 03:21 AM EDT (#243242) #
After McGowan, there was one open spot on the 40 and three were added. There are therefore a coupe of transactions to be announced.

I've speculated that Walters may have been cut (otherwise he'd have seemed a logical promotion being a AAA reliever on the 40) and that Snider was moved to the 60 day DL (if that's possible in September)

Otherwise, there's some surprise in store since there's no other obvious candidate to be ditched. Although it's worth mentioning that Mastroianni didn't come back.

Thomas - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 04:18 AM EDT (#243243) #
That's a good number of September callups, given that Davis will be presumably be returning soon and Rasmus may not be far behind him. I'm glad to see Farquhar will get an opportunity and I think the chance to evaluate Loewen for a month in the majors (even if it is mostly BP) is good, given his contract situation.

Also, in other news, Zach Stewart was perfect through 7 innings for the White Sox yesterday and finished with a one-hitter, as Danny Valencia singled to begin the eighth. Both of his major league victories have come against Minnesota.
tstaddon - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 08:44 AM EDT (#243246) #
Interesting: looking at the Jays roster on the website right now, the new additions are listed but absent are:
Jesse Carlson
Alan Farina
P.J. Walters
Darin Mastroianni
Moises Sierra
Travis Snider
Hard to know what to make of that. But obviously something's up.
tstaddon - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#243247) #
Nevermind. I was looking at the active roster. Still, something's gotta give.
Can they recall Farina and put him on the 60-day DL?
bball12 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#243248) #

Congrats to all of the guys called up - and most especially - Adam Loewen!

Adam came full circle - and made it back to the bigs. I think that is an amazing accomplishment!

With the lone exception of Mastro - we have the core group of the 2010 NH Fisher Cats up in the bigs. That is a testament to the quality of the minor league system.

Congrats and enjoy!

 

 

85bluejay - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#243249) #
I remember Sal Fasano saying to Gerry in his interview that he thinks that Chad Beck had potential as a ML BP guy, so I'll be interested in how he performs. Happy for Loewen. Jays may give Drabek a start to have something positive to build on in the offseason.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#243252) #
The only one i don't get is the beck callup. 26yr old bad aaa and mediocre aa pitchers don't usually end up helping. the rest of the callups were as expected.

can snider and farina be put on longterm dl stints to clear those last to slots? If not, i think its dfa time for two of wise, woodward, mastro, lewis, or walters.
Mick Doherty - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#243253) #
That Hitler/Drabek video is severaly f'd up, but I admit, kinda funny in an oh-that's-so-wrong way.
Krylian19 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#243255) #
Ya.  I heard Fasano use a Jack Morris reference when describing Beck.  Beck can touch 96 and I guess he's a real fierce competitor.  Don't know about the rest of his repetoire but Morris had a good splitter...maybe Beck has one too.
Chuck - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#243257) #

he thinks that Chad Beck had potential as a ML BP guy

Lets hope BP is bullpen and not batting practise. His AAA numbers suggest the latter.

AWeb - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#243259) #

I saw Beck when I was in Vegas during one of his bad starts - got swings and misses on his fastball and offspeed stuff, but while he touched 94mph, his fastball seemed to be all over the map on velocity (he may have two fastballs though, it's impossible for me to tell in person). When batters hit him, they hit him very hard, at least that night. Despite lurking here, I wasn't familiar with him, and I figured he was AAA filler for a franchise who doesn't necessarily want top pitchers at AAA because of the hitting environment.

It was also 107F at game time, so maybe pitching is hard under those conditions...

bpoz - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#243262) #
I noticed the 2 extra on the 40 man roster too.

I know AA is a VERY smart GM. He seems to have presented us with a puzzle. I like the word puzzle because there are some pieces that IMO need to be looked at more closely.

2 subtractions. Simple enough.

When the season ends we can subtract FAs. But we must add T d'arnaud, N Molina and maybe others.

The Rule 5 draft has a limit of 3 losses per team. I like S Richmond, C Beck & PJ Walters as potential losses that would not hurt but could fit into most any teams BP and we do not need them all. Unless added to the 40 man M Walden is exposed, I like him some what, he is having success at low A and after an injury. Maybe Beck & Walters are pretty good and stay on the 40 man to be protected by the Rule 5. But if taken off then they can be claimed and are no longer Rule 5 bait.

With Loewen having no options left he has to make the ML team next year. I do not like his chances of cracking the starting OF and the 4th OF spot seems crowded.

Like I said AA is smart, so I am missing a piece or 2 of this puzzle.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#243265) #
I am very excited to see what Dustin McGowan has these days. 3 years and 2 months gone from the game, amazing.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#243267) #
It is fun to have 2 good news stories in McGowan (back from injury) and Loewen (switch from pitcher to hitter).

I suspect the Jays will be very active in trades this winter. AA probably has an idea as to who has potential to be a star and who doesn't on the current roster. If you don't have star potential then you are available in trade. He hates to let go of guys who might be useful (Teahen, Rivera, etc.) and after the Wells deal last winter and Hill this year (plus Rivera, although that looks to have been just to clear cash) one starts to think he could get something for nothing.

Loewen is fighting for a 4th outfielder slot/platoon LF if Thames & Snider are gone. Cooper fighting for a DH/1B slot if Lind is gone or the Jays platoon at DH between Encarnacion and a LH hitter. Farquhar & Beck fighting for a bullpen slot. Drabek, McGowan & Mills hoping to crack the rotation. Woodward happy to get a bigger paycheque.

September will be interesting.
Thomas - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#243270) #
There were some other good stories among the September call-ups, including Vinny Rottino of the Marlins, who last played in the majors in 2008 when he had one at-bat and has 24 career MLB at-bats. Another is personal favourite, Val Pascucci of the Mets. Pascucci's only stint in the majors came in 2004, when he had 62 at-bats for the Expos, and as recently as 2010 was playing independent ball in New Jersey.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#243273) #
Lawrie leads all of MLB in WAR since his call-up.
dan gordon - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#243275) #

It'll be great to see McGowan back in a big league game. 

Loewen is an interesting story, but keep in mind his slash numbers at LV of .306/.377/.508/.884 were just moderately better than Chris Woodward's .296/.353/.474/.826, and roughly the same as Aaron Mathews (.330/.380/.523/.903) and Jaret Hoffpauir (.295/.376/.494/.870) hit at LV last year.  Loewen is unlikely to hit very well in the big leagues.  Maybe he is still improving, given his lack of experience in hitting, but he still has a ways to go.  I usually knock off about 60 points in batting average from the LV numbers to get an idea of what the player would have hit in Syracuse, if the Jays still had their AAA team there, and that would make Loewen's 2011 season about in line with his AA season last year.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#243276) #
The Francisco trade is starting to look better for the Jays. He's right back to his career numbers, pretty much. In the second half, he has a 0.47 ERA, during which time opponents are hitting 162/197/250 against him. He will qualify as a Type B free agent this off-season.

While Napoli has been great in roughly a half-time role, he didn't really have fit on the Jays long-term (he's making $5.8M this year, and will get another raise this off-season) or, arguably, short-term (with Lind, EE, Arencibia and Molina on the team). He might have boosted the team's production earlier this year, but it seems unlikely that he would have been a difference-maker in terms of contention.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#243278) #
Lawrie leads all of MLB in WAR since his call-up.

Based in no small part on his ELITE defensive ratings so far.

Ratings which, at least to this untrained eye, pass the eye test for sure.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#243279) #
Chris Woodward has a job next year, if not with Toronto's Organization, then with another Team's. Since Travis Snider is out for the season, the 60-Day D.L. is the most logical decision for him and others on the 40-Man Roster as well. P. J. Waters has years left on his contract. He just doesn't pitch well in the Minors or Majors to warrant keeping. This offseason will be interesting.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#243280) #
The Francisco trade is starting to look better for the Jays. He's right back to his career numbers, pretty much. In the second half, he has a 0.47 ERA, during which time opponents are hitting 162/197/250 against him. He will qualify as a Type B free agent this off-season.

When looking at Francisco, I can't help but once again look at this as an example of the difference between a "very good reliever" and a "closer".
Lylemcr - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#243288) #

This callups are interesting.  It makes me wonder if it is the last chance for some of them (like Loewen).  "Let's see what they can do in Toronto, if not let's go in another direction."

uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#243309) #
So there's been one extra september call-up - the rare COACHING call-up.

Chad Mottola has been called up to reward him for "the great year he's had", according to AA.

Next year's hitting coach speculation starts now....GO!
StephenT - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#243310) #
The Jays have been top-5 in offense this year.  The hitting coach presumably can keep his job if he wants it.

The Jays have been bottom-5 in run prevention this year.  A lot of AA's trade acquisitions (Morrow, Drabek, Reyes) have disappointing ERAs.  Who will be the pitching coach next year?
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#243311) #
Great news about Mottola. Isn't promoting him something that was suggested by a Bauxite in recent weeks? Kudos to whoever proposed this.
hypobole - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#243313) #

On one hand, Jays are top 5 withthe biggest reason being  the miracle transformation of Bautista, who himself gives credit to Murphy. Escobar has been revitalized under Murphy's tenure, John Buck had a career year and AGon raked until he was moved last year.

On the other hand was the complete collapse of Hill in Toronto and  the ongoing collapse of Lind,, guys who were to be our cornerstones. Rivera was dismal in his time here and Snider ended up a mess.

Bringing up a second hitting coach is highly unusual. I know some have recommended different hitting coaches for different types of hitters, but the traditionalist in me says simply Murphy already has one foot out the door.  Will be interesting to see how this all shakes down.

 

bball12 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#243316) #
I know many here will disagree but - imo -

The best teams have the best OBP.
Toronto's OBP isnt where it needs to be.

Way too many swings at bad pitches  - way too many failed attempts to move the runner over - the little things.

Little things may not be in vogue - but they usually are a primary factor seperating the haves from the have-nots.
Especially in the AL East

I think we still have a good deal of bang ball mentality.
That alone wont get it done.


 





BlueJayWay - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#243317) #
Oooh, very very interesting on the Mottola "call up".  Vegas led the PCL in obp this year.
bpoz - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#243319) #
I guess Farrell may have something to say about the Hitting & pitching coaches.

IMO they are both fine.

Hitting:- Bautista & Escobar stayed good, Lind improved, all the kids except Snider did well.
So Hill & Snider did badly. Nix, Rivera, Patterson etc were not highly thought of anyway.

Pitching:- I am only disappointed in Morrow SP.
Romero good. Cecil's had non explainable problems. Reyes had his best season ever. Drabek big jump & maybe he has to realize that the ML is different from the minors.
In the pen FF & Rauch are 2 I had a problem with.
bball12 - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#243320) #
bpoz

OBP - Other than Bautista - I dont think we have anyone with any significant number at bats (say 150 AB) in the top 100  or so.

That isnt good - that is bad.



greenfrog - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#243322) #
bball12, I agree. The Jays simply aren't patient enough at the plate. Obviously OBP alone isn't enough, but it is an important factor in scoring as many runs as possible. A few Jays have been solid in this regard (Bautista, Escobar, Lawrie) but there are a lot of hackers in the lineup (Thames, Lind, Arencibia). Hill was atrocious at getting on base prior to being traded. Despite his poor numbers this year, Johnson has been a pretty patient hitter in his career. Rasmus's OBP has fallen off this year as well. EE is just so-so in the OBP department.

The four highest scoring teams in the league? New York, Boston, Texas, Detroit.

The four teams with the highest OBP? New York, Boston, Detroit, Texas.

(Of course, those teams also have the highest slugging percentage, so you'd have to figure out the relative importance of OBP and SLG%, but it seems pretty clear that OBP matters. What makes Boston and New York so tough is that they're powerhouses on both fronts.)
John Northey - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 08:16 PM EDT (#243324) #
Checking the roster for 2011...
Players with a 100+ OPS+: 7, 5 over 300 PA
Players with a sub 80 OPS+: 12 (10+ PA), 4 with 275+ PA

Ick. 4 guys who were horrid here over extended playing time. Rivera (275 PA), Patterson, Davis, Hill plus 100+ PA guys McCoy, McDonald, Snider. Rasmus is at 92 PA 68 OPS+.

Sounds like a tale of 2 teams. Last year we had 8 over 100 OPS+ (all over 300 PA). Only 1 guy had an OPS+ sub 80 with 100+ PA (Hill). Lind was the only other regular (or semi) sub 100. 2009 had 6 over 100 (100+PA) with 5 over 300 PA. 4 sub-80's also, but just 2 cracked 275 PA (Millar at 283 PA and Barajas).

This year guys who couldn't hit were given far more opportunity to show just how poor a hitter they really are vs the previous 2 years. The good news? 4 of the 5 are signed up (or stuck here) for a few more years - Bautista & Lawrie (150+ club), Escobar, Thames in the 100+ club with Molina the other member. Johnson is at 145 going into tonight over 52 PA. The bad news? Of those who sucked Davis & Snider are supposed to be here next year and McCoy & McDonald could be the bench in 2012 while Rasmus has hit very poorly here so far.

IMO a dual hitting coach system makes a lot of sense. For all intents the Jays had that during Cito's tenure. This year none of the coaches has experience as a hitting coach other than the hitting coach himself. I suspect a 9th coach will be added in 2012 and it'll probably be Mottola to help out with a few of the hitters, especially the kids called up from AAA.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#243326) #
2011 MLB OBP min. 100pa (427 MLB hitters with 100+pa)

1) Bautista .443 (449ab)
18) Lawrie .387 (107ab)
----excellent--------

54) Escobar .365 (501ab)
90) Molina .349 (151ab)
------very good------

141) McCoy .338 (120ab)
158) Encarnacion .333 (428ab)
---------good---------

234) Thames .316 (283ab)
238) Rasmus .314 (426ab)
-------average-------

304) Lind .298 (446ab)
308) Johnson .296 (476ab)
--------bad----------

350) Arencibia .278 (381ab)
373) Davis .273 (320ab)
380) Snider .269 (187ab)
------very bad--------

407) Teahen .256 (143ab)
------funny bad--------





Career OBP:

1) Lawrie .387
2) Escobar .364
3) Bautista .359
----very good----

4) Johnson .343
5) Encarnacion .336
6) Rasmus .328
7) Teahen .327
-----good----

8) Davis .319
9) Lind .318
10) Thames .316
----average----

11) Snider .308
12) McCoy .304
------bad-------

13) Molina .286
14) Arencibia .272
-----very bad-----
J Ges - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#243327) #

Since this was mentioned & after watching Lewis pitch tonight, what kind of parents name their kid after Rommie?

J Ges - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#243328) #
That Hitler/Drabek video is severaly f'd up, but I admit, kinda funny in an oh-that's-so-wrong way.

"This" is this 

TamRa - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#243329) #
I guess Farrell may have something to say about the Hitting & pitching coaches.

IMO they are both fine.


AA said tonight that Mottola is going to spend September with the Jays. Right now I'd say it's maybe 60/40 he's the Blue jays hitting coach next season.

Pitching:- I am only disappointed in Morrow SP.

If you haven't already, read this:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/sun-will-come-out-for-morrow/


In the pen FF & Rauch are 2 I had a problem with.


FF has been nails for 3 months now - he's had over twice as much great work as he had awful work (and that was fresh off an injury by the way)

I'd be perfectly fine with having Frankie back as our closer next year.
TamRa - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#243330) #
Who will be the pitching coach next year?

Bruce Walton. Slam Dunk.


I see i sounded silly speaking of Mottola in the last post - that's what i get for reading the thread in reverse (which i sometimes do because there's no "go to last unread post" feature)

hypobole - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#243331) #
He's only been up a short time, but Carreno has impressed me. Any reason he can't be a potential closer in the future?
uglyone - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#243332) #
I, for one, would be very happy to see a new manager next year.

I think Farrell has been a disaster, to be honest.

And throwing in the towel after half an inning today was just the latest in a long line of frustrating moves from our manager this year.
jerjapan - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#243333) #
My guarantee is worth nothing, but I guarantee Farrell will be back next year.  He is a rookie manager, after all ... AA cuts lots of slack to prospects, aka players with potential, and is loathe to give up prematurely on talent.  Why would his philosophy be any different for a manager?  Farrell blew us all away at the time of his hire, don't forget, and it' s not like he's come from a mediocre organization.  This squad will be given an opportunity to grow together. 
hypobole - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#243334) #

And throwing in the towel after half an inning today was just the latest in a long line of frustrating moves from our manager this year.

Not quite sure I understand what you mean by this.

TamRa - Tuesday, September 06 2011 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#243335) #
I'm not at all unhappy with Farrell.

Has he done some things I disagree with? Yup.

Have we lost some games specifically because of him? Sure, he himself noted 3 or 4 such occasions in an interview a month or two ago.

Good luck finding a manager you can't say that about.

if i could hijack Joe Maddon i would, but otherwise, I'm fine. Farrell isn't a superstar (at least not yet) but he's not the problem IMO


smcs - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#243336) #
I think Farrell has been a disaster, to be honest.

How?
Spifficus - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:42 AM EDT (#243338) #
I'm curious, too. How has he been a disaster, and how exactly did he give up after half an inning?
John Northey - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#243341) #
So, what does the score have to be before Jeroloman is allowed into a game? Seems a 14 run deficit isn't enough.

I mean, what the heck is the kid doing here anyways? It is nice for him to collect a paycheque and get a bit of ML service time I guess, but if you aren't going to let him play then what was the point beyond giving him a bonus and a pension (by being on the roster for 1 day he automatically qualifies for a ML pension).
Paul D - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#243345) #

I agree completely John.

The only thing I could think of was that they wanted to keep JP with McGowan, and since McGowan didn't come out until the 9th, and you don't make catching changes mid-inning, Jeroloman was out of luck.

ayjackson - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 09:57 AM EDT (#243346) #
The only thing I could think of was that they wanted to keep JP with McGowan, and since McGowan didn't come out until the 9th, and you don't make catching changes mid-inning, Jeroloman was out of luck.

Which seems like a completely satisfactory reason to me.
bpoz - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#243349) #
The manager is very important to the team IMO. OK, so that is a very general statement.

However I cannot evaluate Farrell accurately and sincerely (open minded). IMO he was very cooperative with AA, so that is a big +. No complaining about the weak hitting lineup in the 1st half. Horrible defense at multiple positions in the 1st half...3B & OF. I think he dropped hints that he wanted Lawrie earlier. 3B went from the coldest position to the hottest. Reyes was an asset development & Drabek was not the best choice to win IMO, he could have used some AAA experience but he needed protection from LV. Drabek also may have trouble controlling his emotions on the field. Lind at 1B was a gamble, but it worked out well.
So I cannot make a fair evaluation of Farrell. Seems like the same old story .333 % VS NL,NYY,BOS & TB.
mathesond - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#243353) #
Well, obviously any half-decent manager given control of the Blue Jays roster would have them AT LEAST 3 games ahead of the Red Sox by now.
Chuck - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#243355) #

you don't make catching changes mid-inning, Jeroloman was out of luck

The poor bastard could have been given an AB at DH.

John Northey - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#243356) #
It isn't just this game but in general for Jeroloman. By now one would think he'd have been put in for an inning or two. We've seen blowouts on both sides, so there has been opportunity.
hypobole - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#243359) #

The poor bastard could have been given an AB at DH.

A little perspective here. The "poor bastard" SLUGGED .295 in the PCL and is up with big league club. There are probably 200 AAA players who hit better and haven't gotten a sniff of the big show.  I don't know the guy, but I'm pretty sure he feels very fortunate just to be the Jays whether or not he get's a plate appearance.
bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#243365) #
I agree with hypo on that one. There are guys on their wat hone now looking at the lineup and asking themselves "what the h***" happened. Jerolman should be happy for the extra pay and just being around as opposed to looking for work.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#243366) #
Well, the Jays clearly stated they see Jer as a backup catcher so if you have him up you should see how he does vs a major league pitcher at least once. I remember years ago (around 86/87) the Jays called up Berroa for September then never let him into a game. Always thought that was mean as you never know if a guy will get another shot and if he is up you give him that one game.
Matthew E - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#243367) #
I remember that too. At the same time, they had Craig McMurtry up, and didn't use him, and I think another pitcher too - Joe Johnson, maybe? Different for them, because they had been major leaguers, and Johnson had been a Blue Jay as recently as that summer. I seem to recall that Todd Stottlemyre was also warming the bench for that team, but had been told at the start that he was there to observe only.
Chuck - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#243368) #

Jerolman should be happy for the extra pay and just being around as opposed to looking for work.

Are you offering this opinion without ever having seem him play?

bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#243370) #
To answer your question. I have seen him play for quite some time.
ayjackson - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#243371) #

Seems like we're making a mountain out of a mole hill to me.

AA said when he was brought up that Jeroloman would "rarely play", so what's the big deal.  It's pretty standard when rosters expand to add an emergency catcher.

hypobole - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#243373) #

If Farrell has Jeroloman catch a few innings or a few games in September, I'm OK with that. If Farrell gives him 1, 5, 10, 20 AB's I'm OK with that. But I also disagree with criticizing him if he doesn't play Jeroloman at all.

As far as Jeroloman being a future backup, he's had a reputation as a very good defender. Maybe he still is, although his caught stealing rate has dropped considerably. He had 40% plus success rates in the lower minors, dropped to 27% last year and 15% this year. There may be many factors involved, but it certainly isn't cause for optimism. Similarly with his hitting. After posting reasonable averages and OBP's over 400, although with minimal power, he seemed to really struggle this year in Vegas. His hitting .240/.335/.295 certainly doesn't make me want to see him catch 40 games as a backup with the Jays next year.

And finally, I believe the Jays people are competent enough to reasonably evaluate a hitters talent, without the player having to have a major league plate appearance.

dan gordon - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#243375) #

Given the hitting environment, Jeroloman had a terrible season with the bat this year.  He hit what, 55 points lower than Chris Woodward?  With a .240 BA in LV, he'd be likely to hit under .200 in the big leagues.  He's with the Jays as the emergency catcher.  They need to either keep Molina or go and get somebody to be the backup next season until D'Arnaud is ready, unless they figure JP is going to catch 95% of the games.  Jeroloman is 26 (will be 27 early next season) and isn't hitting anything like a viable major league catcher. 

bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#243376) #
Tamra no disrespect intended to maestro but there isn't much suspense left in his case. The Guy was jerked around all year and still played ok. When you are put behind Dewayne wise - the message is pretty darn clear. Your time in Toronto is over. Hopefully as I have said before they will just release him so he can move on. The kid is a gamer and will do well. Just not in toronto. Enough of maestro as we have many .many more players with a future. in Toronto to discuss. All imo
uglyone - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#243377) #
I'm curious, too. How has he been a disaster, and how exactly did he give up after half an inning?

Ah Farrell, Johnny Farrell....where do I begin?

I'll preface this by saying that I've never been a manager-basher before and I hate coming across as one, but I've about had it with this guy. I can disagree with plenty of things a manager does but still understand why they're doing it, and thus not pretend that I know more than them and second guess every move they make.....but Farrell....well, I've about had it with this guy.

I'm not sure when it started. Maybe it was when he first pulled Romero in the 9th inning of a 1-0 shutout with him right around 100 pitches, to bring in frasor to immediately give up the game. Maybe it was when Corey Patterson got caught stealing 3rd with 2 outs for the 19th time with Joey at the plate. Maybe it was when he brought in Dotel to face 3 power lefties in the late innings of a tie game, only to see him get pummelled, and then take 2 more months to figure out he shouldn't bring him in to face lefties.

Whenever it started, it's been going on all year long. For the first half of the year it was weird quick hooks for legit starters like Romero, Morrow, and Litsch, but mysterious patience in letting the likes of JoJo "work his way out" of jams. In the bullpen, it's been a complete inability to put relievers in a position to succed - whether it's continuing to trot out Dotel vs. LH, or whether it's continuing to put Rauch out there against power lineups, or whether it's taking half a season to figure out that Janssen is the best reliever in the 'pen (who somehow has still only had 1 save opportunity in a season where we have no actual closer). It's also embarassing moments of being completely outcoached..with us ending up in situations where after a succession of managerial moves, we end up trotting out our worst lefty (Rommie) against their best RH hitter (Willingham) in the highest leverage moment in the game.

In the lineup, it's him keeping the likes of Lind and Hill permanently fixed into the middle of the lineup no matter how they play, and a fascination for putting low-OBP guys up top of the lineup. It's him allowing aggressive baserunning to turn into ridiculous baserunning....guys stealing 2nd with Joey up to get him intentionally walked (so many times), guys stealing 3rd with Joey up for no apparent reason. It's bunts with good hitters at the plate and outs on the board. It's him performing these crazy overcomplicated - mediocre pinch-hitter for a mediocre-hitter then replaced by a mediocre pinch-runner sequences where he eats up his entire bench for no apparent reason.

I also have to give him at least some of the blame for whatever part he played in helping AA be convinced that jokers like JoJo deserved to keep on starting at the MLB level. And in general, considering he is a pitching coach first and foremost, the fact that our pitching has been so poor for the most part despite having in effect 2 pitching coaches makes me suspect Farrell's skills in that department (in addition to rating and using the pitching talent he has at his disposal).

But apart from him showing what I see as repeated incompetence in almost every facet of in-game decision making, what's worse is that I don't see any overall "style" or "philosophy" that helps pull it all together. Cito deservedly received plenty of criticism for his in-game moves (or lack thereof), and his extremely methodical approach to organizing his roster and lineup....but Cito knew what his philosophy was, and we knew what it was, and it did have clear benefits (IMO), and the proof of that was in the majority of his players playing to their abilitieis in any given year. But with Farrell, I don't see any clear philosophy - he preached aggressive baserunning and smallball in the early going...which resulted in crazy aggressive baserunnig early on but has now seemingly sputtered out into not really much different than last year at this point. He preached "battling" at the plate and making the opposing pitcher work, but then trots out Lind and Hill in the middle of the lineup all year long without even thinking of showing any disapproval of their ridiculously aggressive approaches. And whereas Cito was steadfastly loyal to vets and made the kids earn their looks, Farrell seems all over the map - no problem with sticking Thames up top the lineup, or Arencibia up into the middle of the lineup, but dead scared of hitting the much better Lawrie anywhere but the bottom of the order.

As well, n general baseball philosophy, he seems to have very little appreciation of the importance of OBP to the top of the lineup, and doesn't seem to have any real knack in bringing out the best in players young or old (which was Cito's greatest asset). He's not a new-school manager like Madden who uses the numbers to his advantage, nor is he an oldschool manager who uses stability and the book to his advantage. He seems to be a weird amalgam of the worst of the oldschool and the worst of the newschool.

I have never in my life gone through a season where I have not only disagreed with near every move a manager has made, but been absolutely mind-boggled on a regular basis by many of his decisions.....and not being able to find even one silver lining to all of his maneouvring.

I guess I can think of ONE possible explanation to all of this....and that's that Farrell thinks it's absolutely most important to be completely unpredictable in every possible way.....and I guess on that front, he's been effective, because I can never understand any of the moves he makes.

And again, I hate second-guessing managers. It's one of my pet peeves. But this guy I truly think is completely incompetent. Not that I think it makes a massive difference in the final standings, but as much as a difference a manager can make, I think farrell has made it negatively thi s year. I could handle it early in the year because he was a rookie, but I haven't seen any slowing in the mind-boggling decision department to make me feel any better about him.

That's the end of my rant. Not usual for me, but this guy has really got to me this year, and I really don't think he's the guy we want in charge of this team going forward. I think he does much more harm than good, in most every facet of the game.

As for how he gave up after half an inning last night? Lemme see.....we all know Perez is a fill in with no longterm starting potential. We just called up a guy who's been starting in the minors and has clear starting upside in McGowan....so the easiest thing would have been just to start McGowan in the first place. Barring that, when Perez got tattooed in the first he could have brought McGowan in when it was 3-0....though it's understandable that he let Perez try to fight through that first inning and finish it. Still, it's 6-0 with 9 innings to go....we shouldn't be giving up yet, I don't think. So let lewis start the next inning, that's fine.....but 1 runner gets on, and the hook should probably come out. The 2nd guy gets on as well, and the hook should DEFINITELY come out.....but no, instead of bringing in a talented starter in McGowan, he keeps Lewis in there to try to AGAIN fight out of an inning he is getting tattooed in...that is when he first gave up the game. But then, even worse, he decides to bring in Rommie Lewis - our worst reliver and a medicore AAAer - to completely bury the game. If that's not giving up on a game after half an innning, I don't know what its. And what's the worst part of it? he ends up bringing in McGowan ANYWAYS? seriously? If he was coming in anyways, whey didn't he come in when the game was still kind of in reach? what was he possibly thinking?

Ach, I've given up trying to figure out Farrell. I literally have no idea why he makes the moves he makes. Though, I guess, that's definitely "unpredictable".
Mike Green - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#243380) #
Uglyone, I think that I understood Farrell's reasoning with regard to his pitching last night.  After an 11 inning game in which the bullpen worked 5 innings and with reinforcements not due until today and McGowan possibly only able to go 3 innings,  he wanted to use the low leverage guy down 6-0 to minimize potential wear on the rest of the pen. That I understand.  The usage of Brian Tallet was puzzling, on the other hand.

If you want to argue that he has not shown himself to be a great tactician so far, you will not have many who disagree.  As for getting the most out of his players,  I would say that the jury is still out on that one.  The team was not built to compete in 2011 and they are playing .500 ball in a tough division.  Some things have obviously gone right.  I am withholding judgment until after 2012 at least.

dan gordon - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#243387) #
I'm not impressed with Farrell either.  His in-game decision making seems weak to me.  His bullpen usage seems strange.  He actually stated in the preseason that Dotel was weak against lefties, and then when the season started, he started using him quite often against lefties.  He seems to get outmanaged when it comes to getting matchups in late innings of close games.  The baserunning in the first 50, 60 games of the season was laughable.  At least he was able to recognize his mistake in allowing such grossly overaggressive baserunning to go on, although it took him far too long to make the adjustment.  It would be nice to know what AA thinks of him.  Not what he would say in public, but what he REALLY thinks.  I don't know if Farrell can improve the decison making stuff or not.  I give him cudos for recognizing early that Lawrie was ready for the big leagues. 
bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#243388) #
Uglyone,

I most certainly am only speaking for myself - and you most certainly don't need any support from me - but that being said:

As far as I am concerned you don't ever have to preface a post with a disclaimer.
As with most of the folks that post on this board - I find your posts to always be well thought out - supported by fact - and always thought provoking.

I may not agree with you on certain things - but I always find your posts to be useful to read and as I said before - thought provoking.
As for the last post - there is nothing in it that I would disagree with.

I think it is only right to be a bit gentler with assessments as it regards prospects - but for the guys that are in the big time - they are fair game.

Again - I enjoy reading your posts and like to think that I learn more about the game every time I read one of yours - (and many other posters as well).





bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#243390) #
Shoot - I forgot the most important thing

Good Luck Tonight Adam Loewen !!!

Absolutely fantastic accomplishment to have made it back! 


uglyone - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#243391) #
thank for that bball, but I'll always feel awkward about a self-indulgent post like that.

thing is, I hate criticizing managers so much that I felt the need to give it a pretty good explanation. nothing I hate more than using hindsight to second guess a manager based on a few isolated incidents.
bpoz - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#243392) #
I did not understand the Tallet useage either. That was Don W managing I believe. But the pen was over used & injured at the time I believe. I wish Carreno had been available & if he was then were they protecting him?

The 40 man is full now, with out Tallet & AA thinks 2-3 moves ahead. My guess is that Tallet is not in AA's short term plans.
bball12 - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#243393) #
Watch closely - the next 3 weeks will say alot about AA

I am a big fan of the trades he has made - but I am beginning to cast a wary businessman's eye on this now.

You dont "reward" people for losing their composure every friggin inning of every friggin game all friggin year.
You bench them. You teach them a lesson - you dont reward them.

You dont take a guy up - fall behind by a million runs before you get 6 outs - and not put the kid in for an inning.
And you dont diss him in the media either. As a human being - that is unfair and just plain wrong. That disgusted me.

You dont  put Dewayne Wise out on the field. Period. You want to reward him? - Send him some flowers and a check for $250,000

And you don't keep young guys on a 40 man that you have no use for and that have no trade value. That is just spiteful.
You are taking away opportunities from a young player for absolutely no reason. Let them go and let someone else take a shot.

AA needs to step it up - we shall see soon if he does.





Thomas - Wednesday, September 07 2011 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#243398) #
My guess is that Tallet is not in AA's short term plans.

Considering he's been released, I suspect you're right.

John Northey - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#243405) #
The young guys on the 40 I'm guessing means Mastroianni. Mastroianni has actually climbed the ladder fairly smoothly from A-, to A, to A+/AA, to full year at AA, to AA/AAA/ML (one game). Next year should've been (given his pace) AAA for a full year then a ML shot so his first ML PA came early.

Who lost their composure every inning of every game? Can't think of a guy who showed that this season off hand. Who was dissed in the media by AA? I'm guessing Mastroianni who he seemed not to care for much.

Wise is who he is - an emergency backup. I'd have preferred Mastroianni or Loewen. Playing McCoy in CF is silly too imo. However, Wise as a 5th/6th outfielder is fine. Hopefully we'll see more Loewen and less McCoy/Wise as September moves along.

If these are AA's biggest blunders I suspect we'll all be very happy in a couple of years.
Flex - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 12:25 AM EDT (#243407) #
AA needs to step it up

Really? The general manager almost everyone in baseball believes may be the smartest cookie out there? The guy they call ninja? The guy who has turned around an entire organization in less than two years? Taken its minor league system from mediocre to one of the very best, while getting rid of albatross contracts and filling the major league roster with rare talent like Escobar and Rasmus and Lawrie? That's the guy who hasn't impressed you? That's the guy who needs to step it up? Because of the way he's given playing time to a few also rans in a non-contending season?

And he's "disgusting" and "unfair" and "spiteful" for the way he's dealt with a player? The guy most people in baseball believe is one of the nicest, most decent executives in the game?

Are you kidding?

People think they can say anything on the Internet. Unbelievable.
TamRa - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 12:47 AM EDT (#243410) #
I mean, what the heck is the kid doing here anyways? It is nice for him to collect a paycheque and get a bit of ML service time I guess, but if you aren't going to let him play then what was the point

Learning. How often were we told last year when JPA wasn't playing (a much better hitter, by the way) that there was tremendous value in dealing with the major league staff, and learning the VAST amount of information that a major league catcher has to know to do his job well.

There will be a day, in the next couple of years, when many will be asking "Why is d'Arnaud up here if he's not going to play?" and the answer will be the same.


Spifficus - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 02:46 AM EDT (#243412) #

Lots of stuff on Farrell, uglyone, some of which is fair, others just seem like post hoc rationalization or ignoring the reasons given at the time just because you disagree.

Dotel's early usage was, umm, odd, but the silver lining was that he did stop.

OBP at the top of the lineup? Yeah, I could do with some more of that, but Yunel has been entrenched in the leadoff spot for most of the year, and was hitting second before that. There weren't any other good high-OBP candidates in that lineup to take the other spot, so he tried speed (Davis) and 'get the fastball hitters more fastballs' (Patterson and Thames). I don't really agree with it, but in the absence of other options, why not? When he gets back and reaclimated, Rasmus is my pick, though.

The run-wild offense... if it's break-even or more, I've been a fan of it (I have this wacky notion that it 'keeps the players mentally in the game more', based on, well, nothing). Of course, Patterson, well what can you say, other than his baserunning wants to make me gouge my own eyes out in frustration. While it was still the epitome of a boneheaded play, his only caught stealing at 3b with 2 out that I can find was with Lind at the plate, not Bautista. I was mortified when it happened, and I wouldn't be surprised if Farrell was, too (he only played 6 more full games in the next 25, and he only attempted 2 more stolen bases; both of 2b, in game-appropriate situations).

I can't find the Romero game you're talking about; there was one where he was pulled for Frasor in a shutout with a runner on 3rd with 1 out in the 8th (Apr 7th against Oak), but not one where he had pitched 8 or more shutout innings when he was pulled for Frasor. That move makes sense from the perspective of Crisp's 2010 splits. Amusingly, he got out the lefties he faced. Not amusingly, he gave up a hit and a HBP to the two righties.

I wouldn't say he's had a quick hook with Romero or Morrow, either. When looking at the lines, there seemed to be reasons to take them out if they hadn't thrown above 100 (big leads, platoon matchup, shaky innings, etc). eeking more out of JoJo was an attempt to not blow out bullpens (I remember hearing somewhere that blowing out a bullpen for a day can take around 4 games to recover from. Not sure if that's true, but it sounds plausible) when Litch, Drabek and Cecil were also not getting deep into games. Someone had to throw the innings, and Reyes was as well as any of them through May or even June.

As for last night, first, McGowan was not going to be coming in partway though an inning, and was going to be given as much time as he needed to warm up, as he was accustomed to as a starter. Every manager would and should handle that the same way, and that's going to limit when he can come into a game. Up to that point, Perez had thrown 2 good starts and 1 bad start (still, with promising indicators). Whether he's part of the long-term rotation plans or not, giving him that start allows several things, including the opportunity to break McGowan in on the teams terms (which was then taken away with Perez's performance). In that first inning, it's not like Perez was getting pounded around; he had some wildness (which is amplified against Boston), and had a bloop double and 3 ground ball hits mixed amongst the 5 that inning so of course he wasn't going to be lifted after 1. The second was more ominous in terms of hard contact, but happened relatively quick. After that, it took McGowan time to get loose, and Lewis was in down 6-0 to try to bridge the gap. I don't see the source of outrage.

Again, Farrel has done things worthy of criticism this year, but I don't think it's anywhere near as dire as your post makes out. Also, he seems to be learning (even though some things he probably should have just known going in), which a good sign with a first year manager.

Thomas - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 05:34 AM EDT (#243413) #
In other news, Royals outfielder Jeff Francouer threw Michael Taylor (briefly a Blue Jay) out at first in his fourth major league game on a would-have-been single to right. It is only the fifth 9-3 assist in the AL in the last 30 years and robbed Taylor of his second major league hit. If you read the story on MLB.com, Francouer credits Hosmer with being alert enough to go to the bag and Hosmer said the only reason he went to the bag was because he remembered a conversation they had when playing Toronto, when Francouer told him to be alert any time Jose Molina hit one hard to right.
bball12 - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 06:41 AM EDT (#243414) #
John N

That's the problem - you are just guessing.

1) Composure - you haven't been watching enough.
2) Dissing - wrong again - that would be Jerolman
3) You think he should be playing - I don't. Sorry.
4) Hey - you got one right!

I guess you could say we disagree with each other 100% - and that's that.

Great win last night for the team - and Adam gets hit #1 !!! - Congrats Adam!!!




John Northey - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 08:11 AM EDT (#243415) #
bball12
1) Yup, rarely get to watch the games due to having 3 girls and a full-time job. Thus why I ask who is losing composure.

2) Jeroloman? Yeah, I feel he should've been in a game by now however, as others have stated, this is a guy who 'hit' 240/335/295 in Vegas. In freaking Vegas! Lifetime in the minors is 245/378/347. This is a guy who really shouldn't be in the majors except as an emergency replacement. I like his patience at the plate and the good defensive rep he has but calling him a potential backup is about as good a compliment as you can give. There is no other potential role for him in the majors unless he somehow learns how to hit in the majors after not doing so in the minors.

3) Wise shouldn't be playing much. 1 game a week should be the max. However, the Jays do have an injury situation and McCoy has been used a lot out there which I find more bizarre than Wise being out there.

4) Mastroianni has a lot of 'guy love' out here and I'm not sure why. Yes, he has a high OBP in the minors but his slash line is just 279/370/372 with a Vegas line of 276/358/389. Most say to slice at least 100-200 points from a guys OPS at that level, which pushes him from a 747 to a 647 or 547 likely ML OPS. We are talking John McDonald level offense in the outfield. Unless he has Devon White level of defense ala Gose then there is no role for him here. His potential is at the Wise level (lifetime 630 OPS) which makes not wanting Wise (who hit 338/382/549 in Vegas, 744 lifetime OPS in the minors) here all the more odd.

Ah well, we each have our views and that is what makes life entertaining.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 09:08 AM EDT (#243418) #
I don't think it's strange that McCoy is playing a lot with Rasmus out. He's got a legitimate chance to be a regular bench player for the Jays next year. Whether or not he can put up a good OBP in the majors is a factor in his having that job or not. And if McCoy shows he can play a legitimate centre field then AA has more flexibility, he's not obligated to keep Davis. (Not saying I've given up on Davis, but he was quite terrible this year).

But it remains likely that McCoy can safely renew his season's pass for the Vegas-Toronto shuttle next year.
hypobole - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#243419) #

Put me on the list of those who haven't been watching enough, because i haven't seen any Blue Jay lose their composure every inning of every game

 I have no idea as to what "dissing" comment(s) of AA's "disgusted" you, bball,

Wise is a lost cause at the plate, but probably the best pure defender we've had this year in CF. That position has to cover a lot of ground on this team,with the limited range of both corner guys. I'm sure the pitching staff is OK with him as well. Rasmus will be back very soon so ve won't see much if any more of  the beloved DeWise.

As far as the game last night, a couple of tremendous AB's by both JPA and Thames in the eighth, It would be great to see more of the patience they showed there. I must admit however, I was expecting the ump to ring Thames up on a pitch outside the strike zone, after watching him call the strike that was clearly outside to Wise. 

John Northey - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#243420) #
I think what matters with McCoy is if he can cover SS/2B well enough to justify not resigning McDonald. If he can, then a bench of backup catcher, McCoy, Davis, and someone who can play 1B/3B with some pop would cover the bench (assuming a 7 man bullpen). Davis has his value with his raw speed and defense in the outfield. McCoy is useful if he covers every position but catcher.

As to McCoy, in the minors he has played 328 games at 2B, 376 at SS, 127 at 3B, 49 in CF, and 67 at the corner outfield positions. IE: he is a guy who plays everywhere. His offense isn't great - 275/375/369 lifetime in the minors - but he will take a walk which helps. 203 SB vs 61 CS suggests he has speed as well. Sadly, his 65 OPS+ this year (52 lifetime) suggests he just isn't more than a utility guy in the McDonald mold.

So there is a slot for either McCoy or McDonald in 2012. Wonder which it will be, or if someone else is acquired instead.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#243422) #
Sadly, [McCoy's] 65 OPS+ this year (52 lifetime) suggests he just isn't more than a utility guy in the McDonald mold.

Did anyone expect him to be more? I think McCoy's better than McDonald in that he's an on-base guy (rather than an all-round bad hitter), he's more of a threat on the bases, and he can play centre field. McDonald may be better in that he's been an excellent defender and everybody's best friend. The questions are whether McCoy can keep up his OBP in the majors despite his epic lack of pop, and whether McDonald is still a great defender at 37 years old.
Spicol - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#243423) #

Jeroloman's ceiling is Ken Huckaby with 20% more walks.

Are we really upset about this?

Paul D - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#243424) #

I'm not upset about Jeroloman, but I do think it's a strange thing to do to a guy, and I hope that they get him into a game at some point.

Mike Green - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#243425) #
Am I upset that Jeroloman's ceiling is Ken Huckaby with 20% more walks?  No, absolutely not.  The Doug Gwosdz doll with pins in it next to my computer in the basement is purely decorative.  Some people prefer pet rocks or tamagotchis, I know. 
hypobole - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#243426) #

I'm not upset about Jeroloman, but I do think it's a strange thing to do to a guy

Paul, what is this strange thing they are doing to Jeroloman?

bball12 - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#243427) #

John N,

Understood - and I think you make some real good points. I didnt mean to come off rude. Apologies if I did.

I like McCoy out there - he is a gamer and a guy that certainly deserves the playing time. A great team guy who can help with OBP (maybe) and defense.

I dont think Drabek should have been called up.

I feel bad for Jerolman.

I think they should cut Mastro loose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paul D - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#243428) #
I'm not upset about Jeroloman, but I do think it's a strange thing to do to a guy

Paul, what is this strange thing they are doing to Jeroloman?


It's strange to me that you'd call a guy up and not put him in a game.  There have been a couple of blow outs and I'm surprised that he hasn't been able to see any action.

What's his upside, .250/.350/.350 with good defence?   that would be an incredibly valuable catcher.   (Of course, that probably means that his actual upside is much less than that, since I'm sure they know more about this stuff than I do)

Paul D - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#243429) #

Did anyone find it werid that they pinch hit for McCoy with Wise last night?  Why not pinch hit with Lind and then use Wise?

Mike Green - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#243430) #
If Jeroloman's upside is .250/.350/.350 with good defence, that would be a helluva lot better than what Arencibia provides.  There is probably a reason why he hit much worse in Las Vegas this year than he has hit in New Hampshire over 1000 PAs.  Most players hit much better in Vegas.  My guess: some kind of nagging injury. 

The short take, though, is that he appears to have been brought up as an emergency catcher only (given his struggles this year).  I approve of that. 

greenfrog - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#243431) #
The Red Sox are almost certainly headed for the playoffs, but the Rays still have an outside shot at catching them (and the two teams start a series against each other tomorrow). The Jays could make things just a bit less comfortable for Boston in that race by beating them today.
John Northey - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#243432) #
Well, Jeroloman's upside is probably 250/350/300 really. He just doesn't have any pop in that bat as 2 HR in over 300 Vegas PA this year suggests. JPA's is more like 250/320/500 (minor league lifetime is 275/319/507 vs Jeroloman's 245/378/347 but Jeroloman is 26 while JPA is 25 with a year of ML service under his belt).

Hopefully it becomes a moot point with d'Arnaud charging up the ladder lifetime 278/336/452 but only 22 and without Vegas jumping his stats.
John Northey - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#243433) #
bball12

No problem - I try not to take things personally as this is the web. Stuff that would be a 'no problem' in person can be 'how dare you' here.

We do agree on a few things. Drabek shouldn't be up (don't see how facing ML hitters will help his confidence), I feel bad for Jeroloman not getting in (feel every guy called up should get his shot, even if just for one AB or one inning).

Mastro I can understand holding onto until you are 100% certain he won't be useful. Given the one game audition (which seemed really odd to me) I suspect the Jays feel he won't be and thus he is on the short list of 40 man cuts if needed.
bpoz - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#243434) #
bball12, When you make your points they are clear. You have also put in the "IMO". You & others have pointed out often enough that these are opinions only and the "IMO" is understood.

There is a lot of merit in your comment about AA. You are as positive about his trades as most of us are. I have the exact same opinion about watching AA closely for the rest of the season. We will also be watching the off season... er IMO. Of course to be perfectly clear we will argue about...and loving it. He certainly stepped toward non contending in 2011 (he said building year) by replacing Wells with Davis, JoJo in the rotation, maybe others.

How did people see the Rasmus deal?
A major negative side effect was the impact on the bull pen. With deepest respect... I think he blew it up.
How about part 1 of the deal, the chiSox part, if there was a contender desperate for stronger SP because overall they were weak and could face the Phils one day, then E Jackson was exactly the type of deal to make. OK R Oswalt & the Cleveland guy was better.


The comment about AA stepping up is true in the sense of "IMO the Jays have a few levels to go before they are the equal of NYY & Boston". AA has been saving those steps for the future, especially the fine tuning step, again IMO.
By Christmas or so we should know the destinations of many of the top FAs. Which will give us an idea of AA's attempt at getting them. By Feb most AA's Off season moves will be done and we will have an idea of AA's seriousness regarding contending in 2012. Right now we do not know how strongly he will go for what number of wins.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#243436) #
If Jeroloman's upside is .250/.350/.350 with good defence, that would be a helluva lot better than what Arencibia provides.

One of these days we need to make a gentlemen's bet regarding Arenciba, Mike. For a normally level-headed guy you surely do bash him a lot. I get the impression that you feel like this season is as good as he'll ever be, is that accurate?
greenfrog - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#243437) #
I think Arencibia has had a very respectable rookie season. Players often peak in their age-26-28 seasons, so he could be quite valuable over the next few years. I think there is a good chance his offensive and defensive skills will see an uptick over the next year or two. Keep in mind that he successfully made adjustments as he progressed through the minors.
bball12 - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#243438) #

bpoz

On Rasmus - I think it has the potential to be a great deal for the Jays. It is painfully obvious that the Jays need a strong player at that key position - badly.

The real issue will be - is he ever going to live up to the hype?

So far - 3 years - not impressed at all. Great one day and not good the next.

Next year will be very important as it regards a true read.

 

 

uglyone - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#243439) #
Spifficus....fair enough, but I don't think much of that was "post hoc rationalizations".

As for some of the points you brought up....he may have stopped using Dotel against lefties, but it took him way too long, and he shouldn;t have been doing it in the first place......I actually don't mind a very aggressive team on the basepaths, but IMO that doesn't excuse some of the pure stupidity that we saw repeatedly, and again it seems like he's given up on his aggressive running approach at this point, when he made such a big deal about it before, which is wishy-washiness I don't like to see.......as for pulling Ricky with 2out in the 8th of a shutout because of COCO CRISP's splits, well, if that's the reason, then that's just another reason to dislike the move......and while you can make explanations for why he may have quick-hooked romero/morrow/litsch while letting JoJo fight his way out of jams in individual situations, I think the overall impression is still the same, and since I believe a manager's instincts in when to pull his starter is amongst the most important things about a manager, I am duly unimpressed by his pretty much backwards (IMO) instincts in this area.

as for two nights ago, there were ample opportunities to bring McGowan in earlier, and that's after the fact that he probably should have started anyways (anyone want to bet he'll be starting on sunday?)....but instead farrell let's a guy with no future in the rotation in Perez sink the team, and then decides to put his worst reliever in after that to really blow the game out. Either way, I think I'm justified in feeling that he gave up on the game pretty much right off the bat, even though there were clearly options available to him.

As for Farrell seeming to be learning....well, that's probably where I disagree with you most. I don't see it - I see just as galling moves being made now that I did early in the year....not only does he not seem to be learning, but his starting point was much, much poorer than any pro manager's should be.


Regardless, this is the last of my manager-bashing longposts. there's a ton of gray area here and I'm by no means expert enough to be an authority. I just don't think this is the manager we want for our team going forward. I find it very tough to find anything to like about the way he thinks the game.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#243440) #
The real issue will be - is [Rasmus] ever going to live up to the hype?

You are aware that Rasmus was the best offensive centre fielder in all of MLB last year, right?
uglyone - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#243441) #
So there is a slot for either McCoy or McDonald in 2012. Wonder which it will be, or if someone else is acquired instead.

Put me firmly in the McCoy camp.

JMac provides decent fielding in the middle infield, but nothing else. He's not only a bad hitter, but an impatient hacker who has no real situational hitting skills and doesn't provide speed on the basepaths.

McCoy provides decent fielding in the middle infield, and literally everywhere else, too. His fielding flexibility would allow us to maybe carry a more offensive player on the bench than a Davis or Wise type. He also has a patient approach at the pate and at the very least works the pitcher in every at bat. He can also lay down a mean bunt, and provides legit speed on the basepaths.

Even better, instead of the locked in guaranteed deal that JMac will come with, McCoy comes with an easily waivable minor league deal that ensures roster flexibility, and doesn't force us to keep him if better options present themselves.
uglyone - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#243443) #
Did anyone find it werid that they pinch hit for McCoy with Wise last night?

I promised I'd stop manager-bashing....but then I read you post this, which I promised myself I wouldn't post myself. So this is my last one, I promise....

Why is Wise ever pinch-hitting for ANYONE in ANY situation for ANY reason? How can we trust someone who uses Dewayne Wise as a pinch hitter? especially when you have guys like Cooper and Lind on the bench?
Mike Green - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#243448) #
DeWayne Wise does look overmatched, but you could understand the move if it occurred before the callups and there were a shortage of bats on the bench.  I would term it managing on autopilot; in July, with the usual 12 man pitching staff, the manager almost always pinch-hits and pinch-runs CF for CF, SS for SS, in order to not run out of bodies, but the same logic does not apply in September. 
DH - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#243450) #
While I'm no big fan of Wise nor the decision to have him bat for McCoy (Wise for McCoy) for strictly offensive reasons, let's not forget that with Lind nursing a sore wrist, the options are Wise or Cooper. Age aside, both have so far proven to be equally overmatched at the major league level, and whereas Wise stays in the game defensively Cooper would either be spent in one at bat or inserted at first with Edwin or Jose moving back to the OF, and a shift of either Thames or Loewen to centre. Thinking as a manager, with both immediate and next inning in mind, and with the evident focus on defense in the next three innings , it seems like quite a logical decision to make.
uglyone - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#243451) #
So you're saying there's no reason to use our recently crowned AAA batting champ as a pinch hitter ahead of Dewayne Wise?
krose - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#243455) #
Off topic, but a question that popped up in my paranoid mind while watching last night's game. Is there any chance that Crawford stopped at second for a double in the 4th so that he could relay signs to Scutaro and then to Reddick? On Scutaro's earlier at bat, he never offered at a very good curveball with 2 strikes. My paranoia suggests this is the gist of the conversation Escobar was having with Scutaro during the force-out at second in the first inning. Is it just possible that a part of the problem Morrow is having with runners on is that teams are stealing signs from Arencibia?
smcs - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#243459) #
My paranoia suggests this is the gist of the conversation Escobar was having with Scutaro during the force-out at second in the first inning. Is it just possible that a part of the problem Morrow is having with runners on is that teams are stealing signs from Arencibia?

Either that or Escobar is crazy. I have a feeling Escobar is crazy.
Thomas - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#243461) #
Is there any chance that Crawford stopped at second for a double in the 4th so that he could relay signs to Scutaro and then to Reddick?

I have a feeling he stopped because he would have been out at third (at least would have been if Escobar fielded Loewen's throw cleanly). Although, the Jays did seemed to be concerned about the relaying of signs last night.

dawgatc - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#243468) #
greenfrog -think you're dead on about arencibia - he seems to take a year to adjust at each level -if he can get to hitting .250 with 35 home runs and decent defense then thats pretty well an all star - i think he will do it -so we'll see
Mike Green - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#243469) #
Jonny, my belief about Arencibia is that he is, when healthy, a hitter who might go .260/.320/.500 in the majors. However, the likelihood that he will be sufficiently healthy to do this over a sustained period is low. It is more likely that he will have an OBP under .300, as his minor league history would suggest, and when you combine that with fair defence (at best), you have the catching equivalent of Adam Lind.

I had high hopes that Lind would develop better strike zone judgment as he reached his later 20s, as first baseman in general do have greater opportunity to develop than catchers. Those hopes are fading.

It was interesting that Farrell brought back Francisco with a 4 run lead after last night's outing. While it was a nervous ninth, Frank was throwing strikes.
scottt - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#243470) #
Maybe he wanted to see if Frank can throw a scoreless inning against Boston. You'd think Farrell would have some ideas on how to throw to those guys. The results doesn't suggest that.
bball12 - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#243471) #
Way to go Coop!!!



hypobole - Thursday, September 08 2011 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#243472) #
Does anyone else see a Sean Casey in David Cooper? High BA, high OBP, doubles power, 25 HR ceiling?  And would that play for the Jays? 
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