Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The Angels are in town for a four-gamer to close out the 'Dome for the year. One would imagine that they would like to win these games, given they are 4.5 back in the AL West. Toronto has no such wants or desires, but the team has been gaming for the most part and a series victory would basically seal a .500 season, which is always nice as a talking point.

To Advance Scout, and beyond!

The Angels really are going for it, pushing up Ervin Santana and Jered Weaver to go on 3 days rest each against the Orioles this past weekend. It didn't help as much as hoped, as they dropped 2 of 3.

Monday: Jerome Williams v. Ricky Romero

I did not even realize Jerome Williams (and no, not that one) was still in the Majors. If that's not a ringing endorsement... In fact, Williams hasn't thrown a pitch in the big leagues since 2007, and hasn't made more than 10 starts since 2005. He then bounced around, literally, for a few years, pitching in Puerto Rico and Taiwan. If I had to hazard a guess as to why it would be because he isn't particularly good. He had an ace debut season in 2003 as a 22 year old rookie, pitching 131 innings of 3.30 ERA ball for the Giants. Since then injuries and peripherals have caught up with him, with the basic problem being his career K/BB of 1.5. Sorry, doesn't work Jerome, especially not for a righty. He's been better than that in 30 innings for the Angels this year, though his four starts have been against Oakland, Seattle x2 and Baltimore. His minor league numbers were decent, especially for the PCL, but guys don't usually figure it out at 30. Williams is a groundball pitcher who works off his sinker/fastball, which he throws normally at 91 and as a cutter at 87-88. He also throws a low-80s change, and will mix in 4-5 curveballs a game.  Kelly Johnson (5/12) and Edwin Encarnacion (1/2) are the only Jays who have ever faced Williams.

Tuesday: Joel Pineiro v. Brett Cecil

After a decent 2010 Joel Pineiro is discovering the hard way that the AL, even the AL West, is no National League. He's been hammered this year, posting an ERA over 5. He's also only struck out 55 batters in 133.1 innings, which again only works if you are a crafty lefty, which Pineiro is not. In fact, his K-rate is the second worst of any pitcher to have thrown 100 innings this year. Pineiro found success with the Cardinals as a groundball pitcher, which is how he was able to succeed despite his middling stuff, but this tendency has deserted him, and his GB% has reverted from the 60% he achieved in his walk year to 55% last year to 48% this year, which is basically what he was doing before. He's also lost 1.5 MPH off his fastball, which sits at a Mills-ian 87 MPH, which is slightly faster than his slider, which is slightly faster than his change, which is slightly faster than his curve (77 MPH.) The curve and change are decent pitches, but the fastball has basically had a hit me sign stitched on it this year. Jose Bautista is 2/10 lifetime, Yunel 5/11, Johnson 6/12, and Jose Molina 5/14.

Wednesday: Dan Haren v. Dustin McGowan

I don't know that he especially gets credit for it, pitching behind Jered Weaver and in Anaheim, er, Los Angeles, but Dan Haren is really, really good. He's gone comfortably over 200 innings for seven straight years, with the worst ERA posted being 4.12 and most falling well below that. When he got traded to Arizona in 2008 he started toying with a cutter, eventually dropping his slider in favour of the pitch. While he would mostly throw it to righties, he now throws it in pretty much every situation, eliciting weak contact and producing phenomenal results. Between the mid-80s cutter, his low 90s fastball, and a mid-80s splitter, Haren barely throws breaking pitches anymore. Seriously, he might throw 5 curveballs, but everything else is going to be a variant of a fastball between about 84 and 92. Jose is 5/11 career, E5 6/14, Yunel 4/15, Rasmu 3/16, Johnson 3/7, JPA 0/6.

Thursday: Ervin Santana v. Henderson Alvarez

Johan "Ervin" Santana (seriously; he changed his name) is having a 2011 pretty similar to his 2010, with the added bonus of more ground balls. While 43% isn't particularly high, it's easily the best mark of his career, allowing him to post an ERA a half run better despite maintaining similar K and BB numbers. He even threw a no-hitter earlier this year! What's remarkable, at least as someone who follows the Jays system, where every pitcher has to throw 9 different pitches, is that Ervin relies on 2 - a hard fastball, 91-94, and a very hard breaking slider which comes in 10 MPH slower. Go figure. He uses his fastball to set up the out-pitch slider, which he throws with similar arm action, and the pitch is pretty deadly. Expect a couple of foolish swings, especially because the Jays have had middling success against him, and only scored four runs in their two games against him this year. Adam Lind is 5/21 career, Jose Bautista 3/15, Yunel 3/10, Molina 2/9.

Erick Aybar was AL co-Player of the Week this past week, mostly for his Sunday where he went 4/4 with 12 total bases (2 HR, 2 2B). Mike Scioscia wants another team in the AL West, which may just be because the Astros are a leading contender. Bobby Abreu won't play in 150 games for the first time since 1998. He won't make the Hall of Fame, but he may have a reasonably sneaky back door case if he puts in another couple of years - he has almost 2400 hits and a career OBP just shy of .400.

Otherwise: Mike McCoy leads off again, as things are going worse than expected with Yunel Escobar. I wouldn't be surprised if Escobar sits out the rest of the year. No link, but I believe the club/journalists speculating have said at this point that Hechavarria will still not be brought up either way as he hasn't been playing baseball for the last two weeks or whatever it is now. Everyone else is healthy and in the lineup now, and Brett Cecil is apparently fine with his cut hand. Also, Alex Anthopoulos gives an interesting interview with the Boston Herald.

Infirmary: Kendry Morales is the only one, and he's out for the year.

Credit: Fangraphs/BR/Yahoo! Sports

Advance Scout: Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, September 19-22 | 84 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Monday, September 19 2011 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#244291) #

Where have you gone, Joey Bats, T.O.?
North Texas turns its lonely eyes to you
What's that you say, Mister Rickey Ro?
You'll shut down the Halos 'til they're good to go
Whoawhoawhoa ....

Apologies to Paul and Art, of course ...


Richard S.S. - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#244312) #
Nonsense, Paul and Art will appeal to the Better Taste Bureau, before 'they' take action.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#244317) #
I can see A.A. going after a Front-Of-The-Rotation Starting Pitcher. Someone as good as / or better than Romero to be our #2 Starter. A.A. expected more from Morrow, Cecil and Drabek, as did we all. That is presently better than anything in-house. The development of the Starting Staff took a turn for the worse this year, which likely set A.A.'s timetable back more than would be expected. Who will he get? Yu Darvish, C.C. Sabathia or C.J. Wilson are money-only options. Trades are much more expensive, although Tim Lincecum might be pricing himself out of the S.F. market. Otherwise who knows, A.A. will surprise us.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#244319) #
Good question there - what aces are out there, available, and controllable for at least 3 years (what I'd figure AA would want).

The top 10 in WAR (B-R version) includes...
No hope of getting: Verlander, Halladay, Lee, Beckett, Shields
Free Agent: Sabathia
1 year till FA: Weaver
Got already: Romero
Want: Kershaw, Kennedy - both I'd put as 'no hope' but both very controllable for years and young thus AA dreams of them.

Anyone see anyway for the Jays to steal one of those two under 'want'? Nice that Romero is up there this year.
Ron - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#244320) #
1 year till FA: Weaver

Weaver isn't a FA until 2017.

John Northey - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#244321) #
I should add how Felix Hernandez and Lincecum are dreams as well, but very expensive ones both in prospects and bucks.

Felix Hernandez is the best shot - long term deal, entering age 26 season, great stats all around. The Mariners paid $94 million for a team that will come in last. Biggest contracts are Ichiro ($17 mil next year, but $5 mil deferred 85 OPS+), Hernandez ($18.5 next year, $19.5, $20), Figgins ($9/$8/$9 vesting option, 38 OPS+ at 3B), Franklin Gutierrez (5.5/7/7.5 or $0.5 buyout - 52 OPS+ in CF this year). Nothing else jumps out as expensive there.

Well, obviously they'd LOVE to cut Figgins and Gutierrez ($14.5 next year, $15 in 2013, $500k in 2014 at least). If the Jays offered to eat both of their contracts could they get Hernandez at a reasonable price? Would it be worth it as you'd basically be paying over $30 mil a year for Hernandez?
John Northey - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#244322) #
Baseball reference lists him as one after the 2012 season (before 2013). Checking Cot's I see he is signed now though 2016 though. Guess B-R is behind a bit.
Mick Doherty - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#244323) #

The BBRef crew is allowed to drop a ball once in a while. What they do -- ion volume, for free save what appears to be minor advertising income -- is arguably the greatest statistical achievement on the Internet, if not in world history.

I am not exaggerating.

Magpie - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#244325) #
And Weaver's extension happened just a few weeks ago...
Paul D - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#244326) #

I think Madison Bumgarner will be made available this off season.

ayjackson - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#244329) #

Why is Ian Kennedy a want?

And Baumgartner available?  Is that personal speculation or industry speculation?

What about Anibal Sanchez?

ayjackson - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#244330) #

Oops, Bumgarner. 

First Jets game in 15 years and I have a Flin Flon Bomber on my mind!

Ron - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#244331) #
A good young pitcher that you might be able to get in a trade is Mike Minor. The Braves have the deepest (or maybe 2nd to the Rays) collection of pitching in baseball. I don't think Wren hangs up the phone if he's offered Gose or Marisnick.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#244332) #
A shout out to the Junk Yard Dog? Made me smile.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#244337) #
The more I watch Morrow, the more I believe he'll be an important part of this roster. He just needs to pitch innings, development will come. The more I watch Cecil the more confident I am he will be traded this off season. What you see is what you'll get. There is very limited room for improvement available here. He will be blocking someone. Which hot young pitcher do we match him with as part of a big trade package?
wdc - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#244340) #
As I suffer through tonight's game, I have two questions.  Does Drabek need the kind of fundamental restructuring of his approach to pitching that Halladay had early on in his career, when he went back down to Single A?  Or are the two men and the circumstances entirely different?  Second, a friend of mine worried out loud when Bautista entered the home run derby at the All Star game.  He said that many players who have a great first half and who enter the derby seem to have a much weaker second half.  The speculation was that the derby does something to a player's swing or throws them off their usual swing.  It seems to fit with Bautista, but I wonder whether there is any basis to this argument.  Has anyone looked at statistics related to this proposition?
Paul D - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#244341) #
And Baumgartner available?  Is that personal speculation or industry speculation?

Just speculation.  I strongly suspect that the Giants will try to trade a pitcher for offence, and that they won't trade Lincecum or Cain, so Bumgarner and Sanchez will be available.
Chuck - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#244342) #

Has anyone looked at statistics related to this proposition?


adrianveidt - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#244343) #
Can someone please stop the Blue Jays from putting Encarnacion in the field? That was an embarrassment. They do have Cooper if they want to give Lind the night off.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 20 2011 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#244344) #
Say, is Brian Jeroloman still on the bench each game or is he on the DL for splinters? It is getting silly - the guy has been up since August and is still waiting for that first bit of game action. Technically the Angels are in the race, and the Rays are so I guess he could be let into a White Sox game during that final 3 game set. I mean, sheesh, at least for defense for 1 inning at the end of a game would be nice.
dan gordon - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 12:58 AM EDT (#244346) #
I've mentioned here a few times that I think the Giants would part with Bumgarner or Sanchez for hitting, so I think that suggestion is a very good one, and something the Jays should pursue.  Two excellent young starters - Sanchez had an off year this season.    I'm sick of seeing my Giants lose because they can't score, and they need offensive help everywhere except catcher (Posey), 3B (Panda) and 1B (Belt).
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:43 AM EDT (#244347) #
The only silly thing is that people care if Jeroloman plays or not. I don't see any reason for him to.
hypobole - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:52 AM EDT (#244348) #
Fans should boycott the Rogers Centre until Jeroloman appears in a game. Oh sorry, my mistake, it seems they already are.
Thomas - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:11 AM EDT (#244350) #
The only silly thing is that people care if Jeroloman plays or not.

It seems strange to suggest it's silly that Blue Jays fans care which players are given playing time for their favourite team.

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:23 AM EDT (#244351) #
It's even stranger to try and distort what I said to mean that. Who gets playing time matters; whether Brian Jeroloman does doesn't.
scottt - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 06:00 AM EDT (#244354) #
If he's only an injury away from being called, he should get a few mop up innings.

Would they call up D'Arnaud if one of the catchers is day to day?
jerjapan - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 08:29 AM EDT (#244356) #
If we are going to get beaten, I'm glad Wells was one of the big bats against us, he's  had a brutal first season with the Angels and I'm sure it's tough on him..  Nice to hear some applause for him along with the boos after the homer ... although with so few fans in attendance, that may have just been two guys in the front row ....
Jonny German - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#244357) #
I'm not sure which is less likely: that AA would be interested in Sanchez or that Sabean would trade Bumgarner for less than a king's ransom.
Paul D - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 08:54 AM EDT (#244358) #

I agree with John, Jeroloman should get into a game.

Gerry - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 09:05 AM EDT (#244359) #

The only silly thing is that people care if Jeroloman plays or not.

Count me in the silly camp.  I think one of the joys in baseball is seeing players make their major league debuts.  In most cases they have been dreaming of playing in the major leagues for at least ten years and to finally make it is a big achievement.  Often their family is there and we get to see the family's excitement at their sons or brothers achievement too.  I think we all remember JP Arencibia's debut, that Eric Thames' dad never got a passport so he missed Eric's debut in Canada, and of course the much seen Lawrie family.

So when a player gets called up and sits on the bench endlessly without getting even one at-bat it is puzzling and for most of us we feel for the player, we feel bad that the fulfillment of his dream is oh so close but not achieved.

So give him one at-bat already.

From a practical standpoint Jeroloman has been filling the role of second bullpen catcher.  You have not seen him on the bench during games and he is not available if Farrell was to make a quick decision to get him to pinch-hit.  I believe the Jays told him that this is the deal when he got here and I am sure they will give him a shot in Chicago if not sooner.


Denoit - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#244360) #
I really don't know why people are worried about getting Jeroloman into a game. I'd much rather see Arencibia play out the string. Jeroloman may have the chance to be a backup next year, but I would bet money on it that they sign a veteran (with possible playoff experience and Type B status) to backup Arencibia. If I had a guess Jeroloman is the backup at AAA, and would only get a call in the first half if somone gets injured.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 09:38 AM EDT (#244361) #
An interesting article on catchers, especially Jose Molina and the effect he has on strike calls.

This article suggests he could be worth (over 120 games) 35 runs a season or 3 1/2 wins which would make his defense worth well over $10 million a year. Given his playing time it works out to closer to 10-15 runs or 1 to 1 1/2 wins or about $4 million a year. Jorge Posada is the reverse, costing his team 25 runs a year due to poor 'pitch framing' or about 2 1/2 wins. IRod, who is known for his arm but had people saying he was poor at pitch calling early in his career is at +2 runs per 120 games.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#244362) #
The reason I'd like Jeroloman to get in a game is that he is a kid who may never get another shot. If you call a player up it should be viewed as mandatory to get him into a game. I mean, c'mon, what difference would it make to any other player on the roster to miss one PA or one inning on defense at this stage? But imagine what it would mean to a guy who may never get another shot.
damos - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#244363) #
Re: Bumgarner

There were some rumours at last year's trade deadline that the Giants were inquiring about Bautista.  The scuttlebutt seemed to be that the Jays were pushing for Bumgarner & that the Giants wouldn't part with him.  

I wouldn't mind the Jays looking in that direction again, though no doubt Bumgarner would be costly. 

Chuck - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#244364) #

So give him one at-bat already.

Agreed. Just look how happy Burt Lancaster... er, Moonlight Graham... was to recount his oh so brief sojourn in the majors. Let Jeroloman start game #162. What could it matter?

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#244365) #

So when a player gets called up and sits on the bench endlessly without getting even one at-bat it is puzzling and for most of us we feel for the player, we feel bad that the fulfillment of his dream is oh so close but not achieved.

I don't get it. Would you have preferred they didn't call him up, and that he didn't see a tenfold increase in his salary for 5 weeks? As you said, the Jays told him what the deal was when he got here. He's happy with what he's getting (which is more than he deserves) and doesn't need your sympathy.

Gerry - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#244367) #
92-93 I could respond but I will not.  We are coming at this from very different perspectives and I have no interest in you interpreting my opinions to satisfy your own.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#244368) #
Thanks for letting everybody know you COULD respond, but chose not to. You really took the high road there, Gerry. Kudos.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#244369) #
Yeash 92-93. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed for 20 years or something? And how do you know Jeroloman was directly told (and accepted happily) that he'd be glued to the bench (if I said anything on that, it would've been a 100% guess based on what has happened)?

A guy plays in the minors for years, gets the big call up to the majors then is left on the bench dreaming of what could be. Yes, the extra cash and lifetime pension (by being on the roster for 1 day you get one) is nice but as a fan I love to see rookies get that first (and maybe only) shot at the majors (like Darin Mastroianni got earlier). I also love to see guys like Woodward get their final shot (probably).

IMO teams should look to use a roster slot creatively in September. Find that guy who has been an 'organization guy' that never got a shot and give him it. Not on the bench 100% of the time, but get him into a game so he has that.

Of course, I loved stunts like Minnie Miñoso getting into 3 games in the 70's and 2 in 1980 (at age 54) plus one plate appearance in 1993 (St Paul in the minors) and in 2003 (also St Paul at 77 years old and getting a walk). I hope someone gives him another plate appearance soon.

Heck, at 59 (his age 58 season) Satchel Paige threw 3 shutout innings for the A's so when it comes to these stunts the old 'you never know' applies. He did allow 2 runs the next year in the minors in 2 innings.

Once the season has hit the stage where games are viewed as meaningless why not have some fun? Why not let the kid who has never played in the majors (and may never be up again) get into a game?
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#244370) #

And how do you know Jeroloman was directly told (and accepted happily) that he'd be glued to the bench

I don't. Gerry said what he was told, and I assumed he was happy about the pay increase.

Once the season has hit the stage where games are viewed as meaningless why not have some fun? Why not let the kid who has never played in the majors (and may never be up again) get into a game?

First of all, the Jays have played 3 meaningless September games. All the other games counted quite a bit, albeit for their opponent. There's an integrity issue here - where do you draw the line? And when playing BAL, and not a contender, why not just roll out an entire team of 51s? That way you can watch an entire field of feel-good stories. The answer is that you have people who paid good money for those tickets to watch the Blue Jays play, not the Field of Dreams Heartwarmers.

And let's be very clear here. I have no problem with Jeroloman getting an AB, an inning behind the plate, or heck, every start the rest of the way. But would I suggest that not playing him is silly? Heck no. It's one thing to say - "Hey, I'd really love to see Brian Jeroloman get a taste of the big leagues." It's a whole other story, however, to suggest the front office/manager are being silly by not doing so.

Or put another way - everyone here is so excited for 2015. Well, if giving Jeroloman one sniff of playing time puts Molina's Type B status in jeopardy, it shouldn't be done. It's all about the future.

greenfrog - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#244372) #
BA has started posting its top-20 prospects for various leagues in the minors. The GCL and Appy league top prospects include the following:

GCL: Cardona (#8), Musgrove (#15)

Appalachian League: Syndergaard (#4), Hawkins (#11), Sanchez (#12)

Syndergaard received particularly high praise, with Matt Eddy commenting he "has a pure power pitcher's frame, and he pumps 92-94 mph heat while peaking at 97. As a testament to the quality of his fastball, he didn't throw many breaking balls in the Appy League, but he showed snap and bite on a promising curveball. He didn't trust his changeup enough to use it with any regularity, but with just a fringy change of pace and consistent breaking ball, he'd profile as a top-end starter."
bball12 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#244373) #

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

If you argue for Jerolman staying on the bench because the games still have some meaning - then you cannot have Dewayne Wise in the game - anywhere at anytime.


Either the games are meaningless or they arent meaningless. Pick one - and then run with a consistent strategy.

I am tired of seeing missed hit and runs - missed bunts - crappy pitching - and a zillion strikeouts - whether the games mean something or not.

On the bright side - I am pleased to see Coop and Loewen get the experience they deserve.





ayjackson - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#244374) #

And how do you know Jeroloman was directly told (and accepted happily) that he'd be glued to the bench (if I said anything on that, it would've been a 100% guess based on what has happened)?

Anthopolous said at the press conference when he was called up that he would rarely play.  I think it's a safe assumption that Jeroloman was aware of the same and that he didn't object.

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#244375) #
You may disagree with his strategy (and I sure do) but Farrell is putting Wise into those situations because he believes he represents the best chance to win games. He isn't treating the games as meaningless.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#244376) #
"If you argue for Jerolman staying on the bench because the games still have some meaning - then you cannot have Dewayne Wise in the game - anywhere at anytime."

Wise played centre because no one else on the roster could. If Arencibia or Molina got hurt, Jeroloman certainly would have played.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#244377) #
Slight exaggeration there with a full team of feel good stories (especially since there are only so many roster slots).

Traditionally the last game of the season sees lineups that are pretty much AAA ones though. In 1985 after clinching the division on the 2nd last game of the season the Jays put out a lineup with just one guy who played much at all all year (Damaso Garcia - Tony Fernandez also got into the game while Garth Iorg [RH part of platoon] and Jeff Burroughs [final PA's ever] also played). Of course, fans that day got to see a guy win his 300th so that compensated. Halladay's near no-hitter his rookie season had all the regulars start, then leave at the end of each inning. Those are two obvious stunts.

I suspect we'll see Jeroloman on the final game of the season. I hope we also get a lineup during that weekend that has as many prospects as possible - far more fun on the final weekend to see hope for the future than to see guys like Wise & Teahen (neither part of the future, I hope). If there is a concern about enough PA to keep Molina as a B free agent then DH him or something that day.
baagcur - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#244378) #
a player gets called up and sits on the bench endlessly without getting even one at-bat it is puzzling... their family is there and we get to see the family's excitement at their sons or brothers achievement too

Keep 'em coming. Got to do something for attendance

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#244380) #
About the attendance - this is the second straight season Toronto has had the worst attendance in the league in terms of capacity %. Granted it's a high capacity, but their averages haven't been much better either - good for 26th and 25th in the league. Attendance has dropped roughly 33% since Beeston replaced Godfrey at the helm, and if you believe that's only because of his new gate-counting policies I have some bridges to sell you in New York.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#244381) #
Er, more like 25%, I was looking at it backwards. From 06-08 they averaged 29,063. From 09-11 they averaged 21,893.
Thomas - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#244384) #
There's an integrity issue here - where do you draw the line?

You claim we distorted what you said, but nobody here is suggesting that the Jays call up Manny Mayorson, Dan Perales, Vince Perkins, Kevin Howard and Sean Henn and get them all into the same game. We're talking about one specific player who has been on the bench of a major league team for three weeks now without seeing any major league action. That's where the line is drawn. When a player isn't an emergency callup for one or two days and where the player is on the active roster. I have no doubt Jeroloman will make it into a game before the season is over, but as Gerry and others have said, this is about the fulfillment of a lifelong dream in front of friends and family.

Toronto has played KC three times and Baltimore six times since his promotion. There has been every opportunity to get him into a game since being recalled and Farrell has chosen not to. Also, do you really think Farrell views Chris Woodward as a better player than Kelly Johnson? If not, how do you explain his decision to start him over Johnson in a game against Boston?

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#244385) #
I will make no attempt in getting into Farrell's head, because I think he makes atrocious managerial decisions.

If you have no doubt Jeroloman will make into a game before the season is over, why is it silly that he hasn't already?
Thomas - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#244387) #
And to preempt three possible explanations: 1) I don't believe Johnson was hurt because he came into the game as a defensive substitute; 2) It was a right-handed pitcher (although I wouldn't buy that explanation in any case) and 3) Johnson shouldn't have needed rest, as it immediately followed an off-day with a second off-day coming after the next game.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#244388) #
I feel bad for Jeroloman's slew of family and friends - they must be spending quite a lot of time and money waiting for Brian's magical moment.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#244389) #
Agreed that attendance is a big issue. Don't forget it is also a big issue throughout the majors.

2008 vs 2011 per game...
Detroit: 39,539 down to 32,392 (7 k)
Toronto: 29,627 down to 22,539 (7 k)
White Sox: 30,496 down to 24,871 (6 k)
Seattle: 28,762 down to 23,254 (5 k)
Tampa: 22,370 down to 18,549 (4 k)
Cleveland: 26,787 down to 22,542 (4 k)
Baltimore: 24,376 down to 21,562 (3 k)
LAA: 41,194 down to 39,018 (2 k)
Oakland: 20,559 down to 18,267 (2 k)

Boston: 37,633 stable at 37,700

Kansas City: 19,493 up to 21,196 (2 k)
Texas: 24,021 up to 36,145 (12 k)

Not applicable....
NYY: New park, far lower capacity (-8 k)
Minnesota: New park (+11 k)

Wow, didn't recall the Jays doing that well in 2008. For 2006/2007/2008 the attendance spiked up by about 4-5 k over what was established before and after. Of course, payroll also spiked from $45 mil to $97 mil then started dropping after that ($80 to $62 to sub $70 again if you remove the $5 mil to Wells). Scary for Tampa to drop even though they've been in the playoffs or been a contender every year since.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#244390) #
One major reason it is silly not to have Jeroloman in a game yet is you might have to put him in (injury) at some point and it'll be his first game. A general rule is to get first game jitters out of the way quickly (there have been a few blowouts) then the guy can focus on just doing his job if he is called upon rather than going 'this is my one shot'. I recall Cito Gaston mentioning that over the years as well as other managers saying things to that effect.
MatO - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#244392) #

I believe that when Beeston came in they started counting tickets differently.  Comp tickets were no longer being counted and they were drastically reduced.  This would account for the big drop in attendance.

Thomas - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#244394) #
If you have no doubt Jeroloman will make into a game before the season is over, why is it silly that he hasn't already?

Firstly, I think Jeroloman should play more than one game if he's going to spend five weeks on a major league bench. There is something that doesn't feel "right" if he comes up on August 23rd and then gets his first two major league at-bats on September 30th. However, I think there is also an evaluative case to be made for seeing Jeroloman in several major league games, as opposed to making his major league debut, when he understandably may be nervous, over-excited, trying to do too much, etc... The difference between one and three starts is not great, but if the front office has to decide where Jeroloman ranks on the depth charts next year at catcher, I think additional information is better.

More importantly, if I was about to achieve a dream I've been working towards since I was six years old, I would want my parents, family and friends to be in the crowd. They presumably would have been the ones who supported me through good times and bad times and made all sorts of sacrifices for me. I'd damn well want them to be there to see it all come to fruition. I'm sure they would want to be there to see their child realize his dream, as well. It can't always happen for logistical reasons, but there is probably a greater chance that Jeroloman's parents and family won't see his debut than there would have been if he started against KC and Baltimore. That's why I agree with most posters about the characterization of his lack of playing time.

And your argument is that Farrell believed Woodward gave the Jays a better chance to win a game than Kelly Johnson against the Boston Red Sox? And that the Jays couldn't start Jeroloman in any of the 9 games (three of which were road contests) against the Orioles and Royals because fans paid money expecting to see Molina or Arencibia behind the plate?

92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#244395) #
No. My argument is that Jeroloman has never done anything to deserve MLB playing time, and that I won't call the manager silly for not playing him. He does plenty of silly things, like bunting with Brett Lawrie. This isn't one of them.

Making a case that Jeroloman should be evaluated to see his long-term viability is all well and good, but it's not what John was getting at. He made it clear he just wants him to get his one chance. And there's no way there's more value to the team seeing what Jeroloman can do in 5 meaningless September games than to keep giving Molina playing time to ensure he's a Type B FA.

So now not only does Farrell have to ease Jeroloman into game action, he has to announce in advance when he'll be getting his start so his family can tag along.

Neither of those have ever been a part of my argument. I have no idea why Farrell started Woodward over Johnson, but it's never a surprise when a manager rests a starter vs. Wakefield. He certainly wasn't giving Woodward a start just for the heck of it, like many of you seem to want with Jeroloman. There'd have been no reason for that.

Jose Molina's borderline Type B status provides all the justification for not letting Jeroloman see the field.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#244396) #
Kelly Johnson has struck out every time he's ever faced Tim Wakefield.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#244397) #
Is Molina still borderline on the type B? I thought he was solidly in there by now, but could easily be wrong.

For Jeroloman, my final comment (as it is far too much time and effort on a guy who is at best a backup) is that he should have been into a game ASAP after being called up to get him past the 'first game jitters', then used only if needed. A 3rd catcher allows a team to run for a catcher or hit for one a lot easier. So far we haven't seen that happen like it could.

As to bunting - I'm firmly on the 'dont do it unless it is a pitcher or equivalent hitting'.
Thomas - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#244398) #
To shift the discussion to Molina, some people have grumbled about his effort at blocking pitches in the dirt over the past two years (and I've not always been impressed by it). However, there is also a defensive argument in favour of keeping him as the backup next year. Over the past five years, he's saved more runs through framing pitches than any catcher in baseball and only four other catchers have saved half as many runs as he had.

If you pro-rate the figure, he easily saves the most runs per 120 games (roughly equivalent to a full catching season) and only two other catchers save half as many runs. One of those two catchers now does commentary for Sportsnet with Jamie Campbell.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#244400) #
I read that article in baseball prospectus too (linked to it somewhere).

Molina saving 35 runs per 120 games is an amazing figure. For batting runs only Bautista among Jays is higher (at 64) while fielding runs peaks at 10. Runs above replacement level for pitchers peaks with Romero (B-R version) at 61 with no one else over 19.

For defense, the all-time record for Total Zone Runs is 40 (Adam Everett at SS in 2006). Only 5 times has a fielder gone above 35 by this measure.

If these figures are accurate and reflect the true value of catchers then Molina is amazingly valuable and catchers in general can be massively value. The last place listed was Ryan Doumit at -26 and Jorge Posada at -25 (explaining why he DH's now). That means from top to bottom you see a spread of 6 wins for a team - or about what Bautista adds over a replacement level hitter.

I just wish they had data going back further so we could see if Piazza was any good at this aspect (it was the one argument for keeping him behind the plate) and how poor I-Rod was back in the 90's (he had a bad rep in this area).
Spifficus - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#244402) #

As to bunting - I'm firmly on the 'dont do it unless it is a pitcher or equivalent hitting'.

I used to be in the same category, but I've softened on this, especially with players who are good enough to bunt for a base hit, with the sacrifice as a good fallback (to me, Escobar and Lawrie seem to be in this category). Also, I don't mind it from time to time to offensively mix it up and go against advanced scouting reports, to keep defensive alignments a little more 'honest'. There's one guy I don't think I ever want to be asked to bunt again, though, and it's the one guy on the team that should otherwise bunt the most... McCoy. Wow, he's been horrific in the attempts I've seen recently. He's passing on strikes a lot (potentially hanging runners out to dry), and following it up with a failed two-strike attempt. If you're actually trying to bunt, why pull back on a decent strike (or two) per AB?

Spifficus - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#244403) #
I thought Rodriguez's issue was calling fastballs too often with runners on to boost his CS rates. Maybe he had framing issues as well that I'm just not remembering.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#244405) #
The only thing I'll say about Jeroloman is that with him as a 3rd catcher, it has only made it harder to deal with Farrell's decisions to DH and PH Mark Teahen ahead of JPA.

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, September 21 2011 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#244408) #
It does not matter who's in the game. All that matters is who is needed when. However, Jerolomon caught Cecil.
hypobole - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#244418) #
Courtesy of Bluebird Banter:

Reasons Brian Jeroloman should get in a game
1 – May quit baseball after this season to become a doctor, if he had any doctorin’ skills
2 – Can squat as well as JPA and Molina
3 – May have only thrown out 15% of base stealers in Vegas, but never threw out baby with bathwater.
4 – Tired of being sent to the store for more sunflower seeds during games.
5 – Been working diligently with Dewayne Wise to improve his hitting.
6 – Has Blue Jay uniform with his name on the back.
AWeb - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#244419) #
I thought Rodriguez's issue was calling fastballs too often with runners on to boost his CS rates. Maybe he had framing issues as well that I'm just not remembering.     There would be a certain amount of overlap here - Rodriguez was constantly throwing to first to try and pick off runners, or feinting that way. The article about framing pitches made it clear that holding still was the essential skill that catchers getting the calls had (it helps to set up a good target in the right place). You can't do that and get ready to throw all the time. Anecdotally, I know I've seen a lot of obvious strike calls missed on steal attempts over the years. I assume Arencibia is not good at this skill yet, he seems to do the "Varitek jab" a lot more than the "Molina catch".   I wonder if the umpires could use this information as much as the teams, as part of training.     Also, this sort of analysis almost makes me go back on "just let computers call the strike zone", because it's clearly a huge part of the game that is apparently being quantified now. Actually, the apparent existence of this skill and its importance is about the only argument I've seen, ever, that makes me think that way.
ayjackson - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#244420) #

Jerolomon caught Cecil.

He caught Romero a fair bit in his first turn in New Hampshire as well.  I remember an interview with him - he seemed to have a good relationship with Ricky and he seemed very intelligent.

Mike D - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#244426) #
The new logo has been leaked and confirmed by ESPN's Paul Lukas.
Jonny German - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#244428) #
I really hope it's not for real. I'm not in favour of a return to the old style logo, but I can live with it... what I can't stand about this "leaked" version is the ham-handed maple leaf slapped on and much too large.
Mike D - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#244429) #
Apparently the Marlins also have a futuristic new logo to go with their futuristic new stadium.
Spifficus - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#244432) #

And that helps explain why their attendance is so horrible. The Marlins need a new marketing department... or a marketing department, to keep decisions like that out of the hands of Sampson et al.

Anders - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#244434) #
I really hope that is the new logo, I really like that.
Chuck - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#244435) #
Apparently the Marlins also have a futuristic new logo to go with their futuristic new stadium.

The logo looks retro-futuristic, like 1970s Astros futuristic, but even uglier.



John Northey - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#244458) #
Just thinking about the season and expanded playoffs...

If there was 1 more wildcard team per league...
Jays: 7 games back of Tampa/Angels for that slot

If 12 teams made it (ala NFL)...
Jays: Same as above

If there were 8 teams in the playoffs (ala NHL/NBA)...
Jays: 7th up 2 games on the White Sox and 1 1/2 on Cleveland (who has the final slot).

In reality:
Jays: 9 1/2 back of Boston

For the protected draft pick the Jays are 2 games 'behind' the White Sox.
ayjackson - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 03:27 PM EDT (#244459) #

For the protected draft pick the Jays are 2 games 'behind' the White Sox.

Big series coming up.

92-93 - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#244462) #
Does having a protected pick even matter? AA basically came out and said they won't be signing any of the elite FAs. I've also noticed an uptick in the promotion of Adam Lind by the radio and TV broadcast crews, as if they got a missive from the front office that Lind will be next year's 1B and it's time to let fans realize how potent the Bautista/Lind punch has been the last 2 seasons.
bpoz - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#244467) #
J Northey, Lets hope expanded playoffs becomes a reality in 2012 or 2013...soon.

That being said, am I being naive in thinking the Jays are in a group that is just a tick below TB for the extra playoff spot. I give NYY & Boston the AL East & 1st WC as "good" favorites. TB has their act together & a deep farm, so I make them the team to beat for the 2nd WC. All the other divisions good teams IMO are equivalent to the Jays.

With more experience & the odd improvement maybe even a minor improvement, we could be a low 90 win team.
I give this years Jays 5 extra wins just for the obvious negative moves they endured as part of the strategy. It was said often that 3B was being kept warm for Lawrie. His incredible performance was not counted on but then the performance at 3B without him was a major under achievement.
Patterson should not have had as big a role as he played, Snider & Rivera should have done better. I give credit to Patterson for the good job he did filling in, because I think he performed up to his capabilities.
I am thinking of this year as a transition year.

I am prepared to view 2012 as a "getting used to the Majors" year because of the inexperience. I mean what choice do we have Lawrie is a kid at 3B and LF will also be played by a kid trying to prove himself. There may also be as many as 4 young pitchers on the 12 man staff at the same time.
So I am expecting 88-92 wins in 2012 and would be disappointed if this did not happen.

In the Boston Herald article AA admitted that he never would have traded those relievers if he was in contention.
I am curious about the opinions of other Bauxites regarding the exclusion of Rauch & FF from being traded. IMO the others were preferred to them rather than AA trying to exclude them from being traded.
scottt - Thursday, September 22 2011 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#244471) #
AA is a poker player waiting for his cards. I understand what he says, but I don't consider it binding.
Thomas - Friday, September 23 2011 @ 05:43 AM EDT (#244485) #
Fitting way for the Home Closer to end. The Jays finished the year 11-0 in extra-inning contests at home. It made for some very exciting games at the Dome.

That record won't happen again next year.
MatO - Friday, September 23 2011 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#244512) #

For those that think that age and identity issues with Dominican players is a thing of the past.

Advance Scout: Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, September 19-22 | 84 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.