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My friends won't say a thing, think I must be blind, truth is so unkind.

Hisashi Iwakuma (2-1, 1.67) starts for the Mariners, the ailing R.A. Dickey (2-4, 4.50) might throw his first knuckler at 1:07 p.m. Eastern but who knows anymore?

@BlueJays: .@BlueJays lineup: Lawrie-3B Cabrera-DH Bautista-RF Encarnacion-1B Rasmus-CF Davis-LF Izturis-2B Blanco-C Kawasaki-SS Dickey-P
Game Dread — 5/4 vs. Seattle | 34 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#271479) #
Davis starting against a RHP?  Hmm.  So far this season he has 66 PAs, 42 against RHP (.225/.244/.325) and 24 against LHP (.364/.417/.541).  That is a more extreme split than over his career, but he does have a larger platoon split than typical for a RHB.  He needs to be used more appropriately by Gibbons. 
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#271480) #
Playing Davis allows Gibby to give Melky a day's rest in the field while keeping his bat in the lineup.
Thomas - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#271481) #
And it also allows the Jays to rest Adam Lind and his .409 OBP against right-handed starters.

And, it's not as if the Jays are facing a left-handed starter tomorrow and couldn't have inserted Davis into the lineup in place of Lind tomorrow
92-93 - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#271482) #
If his legs are hurting why not just give him some actual rest? He's hitting .235/.281/.277. I'm sick of players playing through injuries and then using that as an excuse if the performance is poor. If you can't play, don't; you're hurting the team.

Blue Jays 2Bs are hitting .178/.200/.299. Kelly Johnson (2.45m) signed for less than Maicer Izturis (10m) and is hitting .230/.326/.432.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#271483) #
And it also allows the Jays to rest Adam Lind and his .409 OBP against right-handed starters.

Equally important. Two birds with one stone and all that.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#271484) #
You can't help but like Davis' approach at the plate that at bat. Rather than swinging at the first two pitches, strikes down the middle of the plate, he put himself in a position where he could defend against pitches slightly off the plate and strike out. He took two strikes and swung at two balls.

I imagine Mottola has been working to instil that kind of patience.
Mike Green - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#271485) #
Knuckleball management.  Knuckleball at-bats.  Knucklehead baserunning. 

It's always a battle between the outdoor obligations of spring and the draw of an afternoon baseball game.  All these machinations are, I guess, serving the greater good.

Thomas - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#271486) #
Rajai Davis just struck out on a weak swing against a breaking pitch off the plate.

I'm shocked.
Chuck - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#271487) #
Just now getting a chance to watch my first bit of this Mariners series. Who is that in the booth with Martinez? I can't place the voice.
Gerry - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#271488) #
Duane Ward
Parker - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#271489) #
Trying to figure out the song reference without cheating and looking it up has provided me with much more satisfying entertainment than this Blue Jays team has so far this season.

If the Jays finish the season with a worse record than last year, does anyone else think that Anthopoulos' job will be in jeopardy?

Also, if the trades to bring in vastly-overpaid declining veteran talent at the expense of the team's future really were forced by Rogers (the same way people seem to think J.P. Ricciardi was forced by Rogers to offer Vernon Wells that insane contract) then how will the Blue Jays ever find a competent, qualified GM? It'd be like working for Big Stein only without the unlimited payroll.
timsevs - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#271490) #
Watching this game and seeing what feels like a lack of interest, heart and hustle from the Jays I can't see Gibbons lasting more than 2 more weeks. It seems grossly unfair to can the manager for the general lack of performance but at some point the sample size is going to be too big to ignore (40ish games).

My prediction is that as soon as the Leafs are eliminated then the call for Gibbons to go will get too much for management. Any thoughts?
Mike Green - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#271491) #
Just now getting a chance to watch my first bit of this Mariners series

Lucky you.
johnny was - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#271492) #
If you wanted more entertainment value on and off the field, Ozzie Guillen's sitting at home.
JB21 - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#271493) #
Everyday I let this team damper my day, and the next day I'm back tuning it. I'm actually going tomorrow, which I may have planned correctly because the Jays have almost perfected the 1 win in a 3 game series gameplan.

I'm out of the Country travelling for the majority of May, and won't get a chance to watch many games, probably a good thing.
John Northey - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#271494) #
Hate to say it, but Gibbons job has to be in jeopardy soon.  If they were 'just' losing due to injuries so be it.  But the number of mental errors is crazy.  The baserunning goofs, the playing of guys in ways that maximize failure rate (Davis vs RHP for example), the defensive miscues.  These are things the coaching staff and manager should be all over.  The Jays aren't just losing, they are losing ugly.  They are losing with no hope of winning.

If Davey Johnson wasn't managing Washington I'd say he would be needed here.  Someone like that, who will put tons of pressure on the vets who don't lead in a good way (Bautista I'm looking at you and your glaring at umps) and will make sure the players know who is in charge.  Someone with a rep for winning that will gain him respect instantly.  I worried when Gibbons was hired as he has no rep for winning or any big playing experience that gains instant respect (Gaston had an AS appearance and played with Hank Aaron for example which would help, Gibbons has 57 PA in the majors).  He did show skills with the pen and the like and I figured that should work out here, but the rotation is a disaster (personal catcher Blanco is a disaster as Dickey has a 5.50 ERA with Blanco and 4.50 in his one game with JPA (where JPA looked hopeless behind the plate), the guys getting playing time have flopped (all 'bench' guys and 2B have OPS sub 600) despite some having reps in the past of being 1/2 decent at least.

There is something seriously wrong.  These guys, as a group, are not this bad.  When a team of 25 guys underperforms with few exceptions (Reyes, Rasmus, Janssen and Happ are the only ones I see doing as well or better than expected with Rasmus and Happ barely above and Reyes hurt) someone needs to be held accountable and Gibbons has to be feeling the heat.

greenfrog - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#271495) #
I wonder if AA regrets not taking Vizquel's parting advice to offer the manager's job to Butter.

The only consolation to flaming out this early is that the team won't be hovering around .500 all season, getting fans' hopes up every time they win two or three games in a row.
Thomas - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#271496) #
I'll take the contrary position and say that I don't think Gibbons job is in any immediate jeopardy.

I think the season is effectively over at this point. I think there is no realistic chance the team makes the playoffs. You may disagree, but I don't see how another week or two at this pace won't eliminate any hope of the making the 2013 playoffs. Thus, unless he's prepared to fire Gibbons at the end of this weekend, the earliest Gibbons would be let go is when the Jays were effectively eliminated.

At that point, what good does firing Gibbons achieve? AA staked a lot on the hiring of Gibbons. He repeatedly mentioned how comfortable he was with Gibbons and how he felt that John was exactly the right man to lead this ballclub. AA tapped Gibbons for this job without him ever applying.

It would be a major public embarrassment to AA to fire Gibbons this early. That's why I think that he'll give Gibbons a long rope, even after the team is eliminated, to show that he could be the man to manage the club in 2014. Maybe he'll conclude he's not and fire him in August or at the end of the year, but to go back on this hiring so quickly would be particularly embarrassing and I think AA realizes that it may already be too late to save this season.

I don't think Gibbons is blameless at all in this slow start. However, I just can't see Anthopolous admitting he made a mistake with this move.
robertdudek - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#271497) #
I agree that Gibbons is unlikely to go. But if I were GM I would and offer the job to Ozzie Guillen. I would add that he can say anything about Castro that he wants.
timpinder - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#271498) #
AA must make some moves NOW. And I'm not talking about trades. Thole and Negrych up, Blanco and Bonifacio out. Gose has slowed a bit so I'd wait on him, but I wouldn't be surprised if at the deadline Rasmus is dealt to make room for him.
#2JBrumfield - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#271500) #
And it also allows the Jays to rest Adam Lind and his .409 OBP against right-handed starters.

And, it's not as if the Jays are facing a left-handed starter tomorrow and couldn't have inserted Davis into the lineup in place of Lind tomorrow.

Textbook sarcasm, kids! Hey, at least they scored a run today. I thought the most encouraging part of the game was Blanco mashing that double. I mean, he really got a hold of that thing, totally pulverized it, hit it right on the screws. Surprised the ball didn't explode, a la Roy Hobbs.

Blanco is the Bruce Pearson of the Jays, thanks to H.A. (Henry 'Author') Dickey. Bring up Thole and Negrych, already!

I agree Gibbons won't get canned yet but someone's going to pay the price, there will be a sacrificial lamb - probably Mottola.

Meantime, John Lott of the National Post talks to Gibbons about rumoured clubhouse issues.
John Northey - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#271501) #
I have to agree that Gibbons won't be canned anytime soon.  He has this year for certain for better or worse.  But geez, if there is anything one can say a manager/coach staff is responsible for it is being prepared for games, putting the players into the best position to succeed, and ensuring they know the basics like which base to throw to and the like.

Now, can this season be salvaged?  Of course it can.  Anyone who was here for 1989 has seen it happen before.  A 10 game winning streak (not unusual for a 90 win team to have one... the average 500 team should have a 7 game at some point in the season) would change things drastically, pushing them back to near 500 and eyeshot of the division lead.  We know Boston is not a 690 team, odds are 90-95 will still win the division.  It just sucks that this offseason it looked like this was, at long last, the Jays chance to shine and then everything possible that could go wrong has outside of Janssen in the closer slot.

I would love to see a few basic moves done soon.  Calling up Thole and clearing out Blanco for example.  Finding a way to bench Cabrera more often until he shows signs of life - his lack of splits lifetime makes it a bit more difficult but he has sucked big time (negative OPS+) vs LH so far so maybe Davis goes in LF vs LHP, someone else to DH (as Lind sucks too vs LHP, maybe DeRosa or if Thole is called up use JPA as DH those days). Not ideal, but little changes might send a message and get things moving again.  Who knows at this point though.

Mike Green - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#271504) #
Firing Gibbons would send a message that poor performance will not be tolerated.  He's not a great tactician or strategic thinker.  The theory under which he was hired is that he was a player's manager who would get the most out of a talented group, like a Sparky Anderson.  That theory has had a pretty good sized hole blown in it.



eudaimon - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#271506) #
Reading that article made me feel a bit better about our chances. It seems like the clubhouse is behind Gibby and functioning well enough. No blame is being put on external sources (ie: the manager), just on themselves.

I don't think Gibbons has become a terrible manager - It's unlikely that his skills have declined since his last go-around. It's just been tough run. All players will slump at some point but we have all the players slumping at once (more or less). Combine that with injuries (Reyes, missing Bautista for a bit, Johnson, etc) and it looks pretty ugly.

Who knows if this team can turn it around. I think making some changes, like ditching Blanco and demoting Boni could help spark the team. It seems necessary at this point to at least try. If something doesn't happen before the next series I'll definitely question AAs judgement.

scottt - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#271507) #
I don't think the standings will get anyone fired, but if attendance starts to drop, I would expect some changes.

Magpie - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#271509) #
I don't think Gibbons has become a terrible manager - It's unlikely that his skills have declined since his last go-around.

It's not about whether he's a good manager. That's almost never the right question. All managers have strengths, they all have weaknesses. They see some things clearly, they don't see some things at all. Good or bad is almost never the issue.

It's whether the guy is the right manager. For this team, under these circumstances. (And even if he is the right guy - those circumstances will almost certainly change in a few years anyway. Even if he's the man you need now, you'll probably someone new in a few years.)
Magpie - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#271510) #
This team is 3 games behind the pace of the 2004 team - yep, this is worse than the Season From Hell - that got Carlos Tosca fired, and 1 game behind the 1989 team that got Jimy Williams fired.
adrianveidt - Saturday, May 04 2013 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#271511) #
At some point, something has to be done to restore public confidence that the organization feels our pain and whatnot. Historically, that action would be firing a coach or the manager. It's just the easiest thing to do. Action is taken, confidence is restored.

Many more of these losses, especially the blowouts, and this type of thing will become inevitable, if it isn't already.
McNulty - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 12:28 AM EDT (#271512) #
My opinion means little, but I have a hunch Gibbons is gone if they are swept. It's not fair and it's probably not the logical thing to do, but it has to be done. Hopefully, DeMarlo Hale will get a chance to right the ship. He's been a respected coach for a long time and deserves a shot.


China fan - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 07:48 AM EDT (#271514) #
"....if the trades to bring in vastly-overpaid declining veteran talent at the expense of the team's future really were forced by Rogers..."

Is there any evidence at all for this conspiracy theory? Is there any evidence that Anthopoulos made all those acquisitions against his will, or that he believed it would be unsuccessful but was pressured into it? This seems like pure speculation and a false theory.

For years, we were blaming Rogers for not spending money and relying on raw prospects or marginal veterans. We spent many years waiting for "the future" to arrive, waiting for the development of prospects who often proved to be less than advertised. Almost everyone welcomed the off-season decision to switch to "win now" mode -- the expansion of the payroll and the acquisition of Johnson, Dickey, Reyes, Cabrera etc. Most people felt that it was worth the gamble. If anyone expected a guarantee that this plan would automatically produce a playoff position, it was a naive expectation, because baseball never has any guarantees.

I suppose there are some fans who would now like to disband the team and switch back to the old days of patiently waiting for prospects. I would hope, instead, that the Jays aim for a combination of the best of the old and the new. Bite the bullet on contracts that don't work out; keep the best of the veterans who do succeed here; mix in some younger prospects; maintain the payroll at its new higher level (or above), and keep targeting players who have a good chance of success.

Would we prefer a GM and owners who never take chances? The Jays have to take risks, if they are to succeed, and some of those risks are going to fail. If you don't want a risk of failure, you'll have a boring team that never contends. I'd prefer to accept the risks, and accept the failures that sometimes accompany those risks.
Parker - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#271515) #
It just seemed odd that the Jays would go all in after a terrible season that was only partially explained by injuries. Alex Anthopoulos had said repeatedly that his mandate was to acquire long-term controllable talent and continue to build the overall strength of the organization, and they would make a free agent splash or big trade to give the team that last little push.

One could make the argument that he decided to strike because of the combination of the trade opportunity and the possibility that the division behemoths were showing weakness, but to me it seemed like most of the moves made since spring 2012 have not been characteristic of Anthopoulos' publicly-stated philosophy.

Just my opinion.
greenfrog - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#271518) #
Before the season, I mentioned that there were potential OBP issues with the Jays' number 5-9 hitters (I also raised the issue of starting pitching depth). These were not popular comments; most people thought the offense was just peachy.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#271526) #
Is there any evidence at all for this conspiracy theory? Is there any evidence that Anthopoulos made all those acquisitions against his will, or that he believed it would be unsuccessful but was pressured into it?

Aw, c'mon China Fan. Put on a tinfoil hat and play along. For instance, have you noticed that no one from Rogers seems to have been at the WTC on 9/11?
Richard S.S. - Sunday, May 05 2013 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#271529) #

At the end of 2012, the offense looked good, the bullpen looked good, and pitching was an issue.  Oh yeah, Jose Bautista was getting older.   At best guess, with all the information that's come available in drips and drabs, A.A. had negotiated a trade for Jake Peavy (expiring contract / qualifying offer) and was going to sign Anibal Sanchez (long-term acqusition).   Quess what happened.   A.A. stumbles into the beginning of the Miami trade.

He ended up spending more money (especially with the back-loaded contracts) than he`d initially planned.   Melky Cabrera was acquiring with the cash received from Florida (net salary gain none).   R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole, Mike Nickeas were acquired for John Buck salary going the other way (net salary gain none).  

What he forgot he still needed was a Big Bat, as Jose Reyes and Cabrera weren`t enough.   What he did not expect was everyone not named Jose Reyes under-achieving badly.   Jose Reyes was hot, and he started J.P. Arencibia`s good start and they would have (like pixie dust) gotten the next and the next and the next.   Reyes getting hurt stopped that.   Traditional hot starters were ice cold so nothing carried any joy into the season.   Until someone gets hot (it always rubs off on someone else) this Team is going to feel the pain.

Game Dread — 5/4 vs. Seattle | 34 comments | Create New Account
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