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Mets alumni represent: today's pitching matchup pits R.A. Dickey against Mike Pelfrey. Pelfrey was a top prospect and a competent fixture in the Mets' rotation for five years, but his unrealized potential frustrated some fans. He's tall and kind of awkward, with a great fastball but a precarious delivery and no real swing-and-miss pitch. When he finally found consistent command last April the gods immediately smote him with a torn UCL, ending his tenure in New York, and his first two months of 2013 were a disaster. So were Dickey's, though he's fought through his assorted curses to rediscover the unprecedented knuckleball velocity that blew hitters away last year. He's starting to resemble the 2012 Cy Young winner.
Game Thread 7/6 vs Minnesota | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#275894) #
Another one of these Twins pitchers.  They love righties who don't strike anyone out, with the low walk rates.  Kevin Slowey, Nick Blackburn, another guy I can't remember his name, then they pick up Kevin Correia and Pelfrey.  Even going back to Brad Radke.
92-93 - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#275897) #
Johan Santana? Francisco Liriano?

Kidding. You must mean Scott Baker, Carlos Silva, and/or Carl Pavano.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#275898) #
Scott Baker!  Yeah that's the other guy I couldn't think of.
John Northey - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#275903) #
Wow, looking at Minnesota's starters are they ever low K guys.  Highest for any of their 9 starters this year in K/9 is 5.6, followed by 5.1 and 5.0 and 6 guys below 5.  Of the Jays 12 starters 7 have a K/9 of 6+, with 14 starts by guys with lower than 5 K/9 (Wang, Jenkins, Ortiz, Nolin, Laffey - none of whom are in the rotation right now).  I figure AA would avoid all of Minnesota's starting pitchers.  Of course, so would most with the 5.32 ERA for starters there.
scottt - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#275905) #
To me, the interesting matchup here is Thole/Pelfrey.
Do catcher hit better against guys they've caught in the past?

BlueJayWay - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#275906) #
"Wow, looking at Minnesota's starters are they ever low K guys.  Highest for any of their 9 starters this year in K/9 is 5.6, followed by 5.1 and 5.0 and 6 guys below 5.  Of the Jays 12 starters 7 have a K/9 of 6+, with 14 starts by guys with lower than 5 K/9 (Wang, Jenkins, Ortiz, Nolin, Laffey - none of whom are in the rotation right now).  I figure AA would avoid all of Minnesota's starting pitchers.  Of course, so would most with the 5.32 ERA for starters there."

Yeah.  They love those guys.  If you're a boring pitcher who can't strike anyone out, but gets the ball over the plate and gives up a lot of hits, Minnesota wants you.
Alex Obal - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#275908) #
How soon we forget Boof Bonser.
Magpie - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#275909) #
If you're a boring pitcher who can't strike anyone out, but gets the ball over the plate

Because nobody wants that type of pitcher anymore, it's one of those market inefficiencies that some organizations can take advantage of. It wouldn't work for Toronto. Or the Yankees. Or the Red Sox and Tigers. Wouldn't work for most teams, actually, because you absolutely have to have both a forgiving ball park and outstanding defensive players, especially in the infield. But in those specific circumstances, it's a viable and inexpensive option.
Alex Obal - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#275911) #
I don't even think you need the forgiving park. In San Diego and Seattle the walks will hurt you, but in Boston and Cincinnati they'll kill you.
Magpie - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#275912) #
Can't blame Gardenhire for being upset about the DP. The first place umpire went wandering down the RF line (trying to get a good view of Rasmus in case it was a trap?) and was way out of position on a play at first. Weird to see no one willing to make a call for a few seconds, until the 2b umpire stepped up, and he couldn't have had a very good look.
Chuck - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#275913) #
I think Dozier was safe. It would have been nice to see the replay slowed down.
Alex Obal - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#275920) #
It's all or nothing with Pelfrey. Looks like the wheel came up "all" toay.
Chuck - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#275921) #
It's all or nothing with Pelfrey.

And with Dickey as well, it would seem.
Magpie - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#275922) #
Did the Jays' hitters all have early dinner reservations today?
eudaimon - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#275923) #
Not much luck today. Probably the worst moment when Izturis got (quite stupidly) doubled off on that hard liner hit to CF by Thole. If that ball falls in it's a whole different ball game I think.

Dickey also could have gotten out of the 2nd (3rd?) unscathed if not for the passed ball. Bad timing really, I don't think anyone is really to blame for that one. I think Dickey looked good overall, definitely better than the 6 runs indicate.

Still, pretty disappointing to lose that one.

smcs - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#275924) #
In the first, did Dozier get called out for running off the base-path? That's the only good reason I can think of that the 2nd base ump would have made the call...
katman - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#275925) #
Basically, the Jays have had a very consistent season, with one long winning streak anomaly. This is a very hard team to watch - consistently less than the sum of its parts.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#275926) #
If you could keep just 8 players on the current Team if starting a total rebuild, which 8 do you keep.

Starters: R.A. Dickey.

Relievers: Brett Cecil, Steve Delabar.

Hitters: Jose Reyes, Edwin Encarnacion and Brett Lawrie.

I could mention some "Almost":
Casey Janssen, Adam Lind and Jose Bautista.
Magpie - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#275927) #
You really want to start a rebuild with a couple of relief pitchers? And a 38 year old? And Brett Lawrie? An interesting hypothetical, I guess. Just a really weird answer.
Ron - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#275928) #
Congrats to Bautista, Encarnacion, and Cecil for making the AL All-Star Team. Delabar can also be voted in by the fans for the last spot on the roster. Not bad for a team below .500

You would have been mocked if you predicted before the season that Cecil would make the all-star team.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#275929) #
Of all our Starters, Dickey is liable to last the 3-4 years it would take and is different enough not to sway the"young-ens". No other Starter is worth keeping, other than Buehrle. Other than Cecil, Delabar and maybe Janssen, who's worth keeping? At least those three should stay effective. Reyes will be a Stud for a long time (top SS, not named Jeter, are hard to find). Brett Lawrie will never play more than 120 games/year, 2B or 3B, he'll be exciting to watch. I believe Lind has figured it out, he just needs day off each week to stay healthier. Encarnacion and Bautista hit 40+ HR (few people do). No one else interests me enough to keep.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 06 2013 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#275930) #
Dodgers acquire Ricky Nolasco for mediocre prospects (ages 23, 25, 26). It's hard to tell if A.A. had. "prospects" this poor to offer.
katman - Sunday, July 07 2013 @ 12:45 AM EDT (#275932) #
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130706&content_id=52943830&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Basically, they got Nolasco for the remainder of 2013, in exchange for a bit less than Brad Lincoln, Joel Carreno, and a so-so A-ball starter.

If I'm AA, I don't do that deal. 2013 is a lost cause, so giving up anything is too much if it doesn't improve our chances in 2014. The only way I make that deal is if I think I can flip Nolasco by the trade deadline, in order to address a weak area.

John Northey - Sunday, July 07 2013 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#275944) #
Don't see Nolasco as that useful.  94 ERA+ lifetime, 102 this year - just his 2nd out of 8 seasons with an ERA+ over 100 while making $11 mil this year and a free agent after the season.  He is an inning eater, not much more.  Useful but not something the Jays should be spending on right now.  Great for a team with a sinkhole in a rotation slot but I think the mix and match method works here until some guys come back.

I'd much rather see AA hunt high and low for a second baseman who can be league average or better.  For pitchers unless it is a top notch one I don't see the point in spending anything beyond a D prospect (ie: overage at a low level).

uglyone - Monday, July 08 2013 @ 08:12 AM EDT (#275965) #
Honestly the jays entire rotation is a sinkhole. I would be ecstatic to add someone who could be a near average innings eater, especially considering that price.
92-93 - Monday, July 08 2013 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#275968) #
I'm guessing with Nolasco it was his actual price that was prohibitive, not the cost in talent.
John Northey - Monday, July 08 2013 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#275969) #
Nolasco is not likely to be any better than what we have.  2 years of 100+ (this year included at 102) and 6 years of 92 or less for ERA+, bottoming out at 81 in the NL East.

The Jays current rotation is 89 (Dickey), 95 (Buehrle), 87 (Johnson), 111 (Rogers), and 123 (Redmond although no sane person expects that to continue).  Happ was at 87, Morrow at 76.  Basically, he would upgrade the 5th slot (Redmond and whoever) but only a lock for that until Happ returns.  Dickey, Buehrle, Johnson all would be expected to outpitch Nolasco as their horrible is his normal.  Rogers is a wild card, while Morrow is a 'who knows' but with ace potential.  Happ is basically what Nolasco is - a guy who when all goes right can be 100+ for ERA+ but normally is just below and an inning eater just a bit (lot) healthier than Happ and a bit (lot) more expensive.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2013 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#275972) #
"Basically, the Jays have had a very consistent season, with one long winning streak anomaly."

beg to differ.

APR: 10-17
MAY: 13-15
JUN: 17-9
JUL: 3-4

Gms 1-30: 10-20
Gms 31-60: 16-14
Gms 61-88: 17-9

Gms 1-22: 9-13
Gms 23-44: 9-13
Gms 45-66 12-10
Gms 67-88: 13-9

steady improvement, IMO, and a little stumble vs. two first place teams last week doesn't change all that.
electric carrot - Monday, July 08 2013 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#275974) #
I'm with you on this uglyone.  This team looks like it could blast off another winning streak anytime and/or play .800 ball for few weeks.  I personally think the blue jays are the kind of team that will blow-out poor or mediocre teams.
Game Thread 7/6 vs Minnesota | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.