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When you walk through the garden, you gotta watch your back.

The Orioles open this three-game series with Chris Tillman (10-3, 3.92). Lefty Mark Buehrle (5-5, 4.50) will try his high-wire act for the Blue Jays. First pitch from Oriole Park at Camden Yards is 7:05 pm Eastern.

From Blue Jays lineup: Jose Reyes SS, Jose Bautista RF, Edwin Encarnacion 1B, Adam Lind DH, Colby Rasmus CF, Rajai Davis LF, J.P. Arencibia C, Mark DeRosa 3B, Munenori Kawasaki 2B.
Game Thread 7/12 @ Baltimore | 31 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Ducey - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#276354) #
If the Jays don't win this series then AA should stick a fork in the season.  This team is destined for another semi .500 season and they need to trade some players and restock the prospect cupboards.
Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#276355) #
Thank you, #2JB.  Chris Davis is not related to Clay Davis. Just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Beyonder - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#276356) #
Sheeeeeeeet. I knew that.
85bluejay - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#276357) #
here's hoping the Jays are already thinking about going home for the break - I'm hopeful a Baltimore sweep will mean AA can start selling at the break - many teams are looking for BP help and  given the unpredictability of relievers season to season,  I'm open to moving anyone in the pen except perhaps Cecil. Also Johnson/Buehrle/Derosa/Boni/Davis/lind etc. 
soupman - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#276359) #
Any other year I'd say the jays should be selling. I still think they can squeak in to a wc spot. The crowds at the dome are a still healthy, so I don't see them doing something that would seem like waving the white flag on the season.
Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#276362) #
Gibbons goes with 5 RH hitters in the lineup against Tillman tonight.  Tillman has had noticeable reverse splits the last two years, so that makes sense.
Lylemcr - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#276363) #

Interesting article


For all the things that AA has done to turn the ship around in a short period of time, a lot of bad luck has come his way in the last two years.  I feel that if Baltimore made the playoffs because of goodluck, the Jays will miss it because of bad luck.  I have never scene so many things go wrong up and down an organization.

But...  The if the Jays can stay near 500, the second half could be interesting

1. Dickey and Johnson cannot get worse.

2. There are alot of people coming back from injury(Lawrie, Happ, Santos, Drabek, and Hutchinson). 

              - Also don't forget that Romero has looked promising lately

              - Stroman and Pillar are looking like callups

3. We still have alot of trading chips in the minors (also see point 2). 

4. Two of the teams competing for wildcards will come out the AL east.  The Jays play a lot of games against them.

5. Baseball is baseball. Luck can be good sometimes

So, I am optimistic. 

Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#276364) #
That is a good article, as usual, from Rany.  The Blue Jays ought to fish rather than cut bait at the deadline for exactly the reasons he enumerates. 
TamRa - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#276374) #
I remember the cheerleaders in High School were found of a cheer that began:

A little bit Rowdy!

It's going through my head on a loop right now. :)

If you hadn't noticed, jays did in fact sign rowdy and Brentz, but not Bickford - they had about 3.5 remaining, presumably on the table for him (nothing else important to do with it) whatever. Sooner or later these kids will wise up to the bad advice they are getting.

smcs - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#276391) #
Am I on my own on thinking Buck Martinez is better than Matt Devlin? Devlin is just behind everything that happens, like he just doesn't watch baseball.
Richard S.S. - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#276392) #
Since Roy Halladay left, all Toronto has had pitching is #3s, #4/5s. No one pitching for us was better.
Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#276399) #
8 runs in the 6th inning is usually enough.  If you are carrying an 8 man pen, you surely have one for this situation.
JB21 - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#276403) #
I thought I really liked Delvin and felt that he has a pretty good understanding of the game BUT tonight he's acting like the O's just invented the extreme IF shift, so you might be onto something.
Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#276404) #
Nothing makes me happier than seeing Tommy Hunter come in to the game on a Friday night.  Two more batters until his nemesis...
Mike Green - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#276405) #
...but no Izturis for DeRosa?  Why not?
92-93 - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#276406) #
I guess the 13 pitches Juan Perez threw tonight were too stressful for him to get a 2nd inning, especially considering he threw 13 pitches just six days ago.
smcs - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#276407) #
They needed to get Wagner work. He's only thrown 10 pitches in the last week.
Richard S.S. - Friday, July 12 2013 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#276410) #
If A.A. is making a move, who do you keep?
Starters: keep Dickey, Johnson and trade the rest if you can.
Relief: keep McGowan, Delabar and Cecil, but I would trade the rest.
Hitters: keep Lawrie, Reyes, Encarnacion, and, maybe, Bautista, Rasmus and Lind but not the rest.
Parker - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 01:40 AM EDT (#276411) #
Peerless analysis as usual, Richard. Keep the players with some value and trade all the ones with none. The only problem with that is you have to find another team dumb enough to acquire all that garbage. Any thoughts in that regard?
China fan - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 02:57 AM EDT (#276412) #
The Jays could have won that game with a 7-man bullpen. The extra bench guy could have pinch-hit in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings, filled the bases himself, and then hit a grand-slam home run, driving himself in 4 times so that the Jays won 9-8. That's how baseball works, I think?
Richard S.S. - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 03:37 AM EDT (#276413) #
If you keep (your words) the garbage, and trade everyone else, you'll get much less than you think or should.

This Team needs a TOP FLIGHT Pitcher, a QUALITY 2ND Pitcher so whoever is not traded could be 3rd, 4th, 5th Starters, because everyone who pitched for us since Halladay left isn't any better.

With Lawrie being groomed to become the next Robbie Alomar at 2ND Base, we need a PRODUCTIVE 3B. Considering we are contending, who do YOU trade.

We have two possible CF replacements, so a CF could be traded. We have Santos, Janssen, Delabar and Cecil who could close, so one or two of these could be traded.

Value for Value that's what GMs want. Many people here disagree, I don't.
Magpie - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 05:44 AM EDT (#276414) #
I don't see an actual trading strategy there, beyond "get rid of these bums." Which is understandable, but not really a plan.

The most common trading approach in recent years has involved either a) trading prospects (usually plural) for established regulars (usually singular) or b) trading an established regular (usually singular) for prospects (usually plural.) See how that works? That's the structure of the annual July ritual, when the baseball world divides itself into "buyers" who hope to win now and "sellers" who hope to win someday. It's common because it makes sense for both parties, and can be explained to local fans and media.

So the very first question to be addressed has to be this - which side of that type of exchange do you want to take? Who are you? Among other things, that determines who you're going to be talking to. Teams fighting for the post-season right now aren't going to be very keen on surrendering an established major leaguer.

And there's the thing - I don't think Anthopoulos is particularly well positioned to even participate in this type of market. It seems to me that Anthopoulos has gone all-in on a team built to win now - so he's not planning on trading established players for prospects. Besides, no one wants any part of Buehrle's contract, and I would think most teams are pretty leery about the money Reyes has coming to him as well. Which really leaves Bautista and Encarnacion are the only really attractive trade assets of that type that he has. And this would mean pulling the plug on this version of the team, rebooting and starting over. I think he's already in too deep to do that.

And after last winter's shopping expedition, he may not have the quantity of shiny prospects desired by teams that do have established talent they're willing to unload.

So it will be difficult for Anthopoulos to get involved in the most common trade type. It's hard to be a seller, because it means giving up on the team he assembled to win now after barely three months; it's hard to be a buyer because used up so much of his purchasing power over the winter. So he has to nibble around the edges, and explore the more unusual trade opportunities. Such as when a team has an established regular, but they really don't like him very much. That's how he got Yunel Escobar and Colby Rasmus so cheap. Of course, sometimes you find out exactly why their old teams got tired of them.

He can also look for a player who's blocked at the major league level. It probably doesn't happen all that often anymore but someone like Castellanos in the Detroit system would be that type of target. In the modern game, teams will frequently get rid of the regular who's blocking the prospect (the way the Phillies got rid of Jim Thome) - but Castellanos is blocked by Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder, who aren't going anywhere. And hey - the Tigers seem to need relief pitching, Toronto has relievers coming out every orifice, and maybe Brett Lawrie can handle second base. I'd be surprised if he hasn't at last given those tires a kick. Obviously you would trade anyone in the bullpen if it brought back a quality regular. I can't say it often enough - relief pitchers grow on trees. They're the most fungible asset in the game, the most easily replaced. None of them are worth holding onto if you're lucky enough to find someone willing to give you something useful for them.

And Josh Johnson is an obvious guy to dangle on the market. He isn't part of the team's future - he only belongs to Toronto for three more months. This team isn't going anywhere exciting in the next three months. So if you can get anything useful from some pitching strapped contender, you'd have to jump at the chance.
Magpie - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 05:47 AM EDT (#276415) #
Dickey and Johnson cannot get worse.

Oh yes they can. Lot of ways....

Never challenge "worse."

That's Matthew's Law, and it's a good one.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 07:59 AM EDT (#276416) #
Also known as Edgar's Law, per King Lear (early 1600s):

[Aside] And worse I may be yet: the worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'
Jdog - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#276417) #
Last I checked Castellanos was a converted OF so really he is being blocked by Andy Dirks. Unless they gave up on him as an OF I would expect he will replace Dirks sometime in the second half unless they use him to acquire a closer. Would love to give them a closer for  Castellanos.
hypobole - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#276418) #
You might want to check again. Castellanos was a 3B who was blocked by some Cabrera guy, so is being converted to the OF, the conversion starting in AA last year.
hypobole - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#276419) #
Sorry, Jdog. In rereading your post, what I said is more or less what you said.
Mike Green - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#276422) #
The conventional buyer/seller dichotomy can have some wrinkles.  So, for instance, the Jays might realize toward the end of July that there is no hope for 2013 but that the competitive window is 2014-15 and not after that.  In that case, it might be interested in a trade with a contending team with an odd shape- for instance, high leverage major league reliever with A ball pitching prospect for almost major league ready position player in double A/triple A.  So, something like Janssen and A ball pitching prospect for Kolten Wong and IFA money might work.
92-93 - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#276424) #
The point is that if you're struggling to find work for your bottom of the ladder relievers your bullpen is probably too big. If they're going to carry such a big one and everyone is fresh, deploy it like a weapon and pull Buehrle in the 6th after putting on 2 men to lead off the inning and having already given up 5 runs.
Gerry - Saturday, July 13 2013 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#276433) #
I agree with Magpie, both AA and Beeston have repeatedly said this team is setup to win for the next 3 years so there will be no firesale. Johnson should go, yes the Jays could make him a qualifying offer but some team this offseason will be give him 4 years and $60 million. I would prefer a AAA or AA almost ready starter to a draft pick.

You could also trade a bullpen arm or two, whether that's Janssen or not depends on what you get in return. The White Sox did not get much for Matt Thornton.

If I was GM I would trade Lind. That trade would give you more flexibility in the lineup, and his bat is easily replaced in the off-season. I assume he has some value, particularly if he can stat hitting like he was before he hurt his back.
Lylemcr - Monday, July 15 2013 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#276521) #

The Jays need a new 2b\3b and that is it IMO. A new starter would be nice, but unless you get a super stud, they have lots of 3/4/5 starters coming soon (ie. Happ, Romero, Drabek and Hutchinson). You also include giving time to some minor leaguers (like Nolin), I don't know how we pull a trade off for a starting pitcher, unless we can get a game changer like Felix Hernandez. Garza is not that.

Another thought, I would think about trading our strong bullpen. We have lots of arms in the minors. Trade away Oliver, Cecil and Delebar while thier stock is high. Maybe even Janssen (but his stock is low). We can start restocking without major overhaul. Santos will be ready soon. Lincoln, Carreno and Jeffress have looked alright in Buffalo.

Game Thread 7/12 @ Baltimore | 31 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.